March 19, 2020

"Millions of people across the nation are cloistered inside their homes.... Amazon is already struggling to meet demand, and some employees feel..."

"... they’re being unfairly endangered by working in warehouses filled with other workers. It’s unclear how deliveries could continue if the workers who sort, pack, and ship Americans’ goods start getting sick in droves.... [T]his is the first confirmed case of the disease among the company’s hourly warehouse employees in the United States. These workers make up the majority of Amazon’s 600,000-strong workforce.... The incident rattled some of the warehouse workers, who already feel they are being underpaid for a risky job.... On Monday, Amazon announced plans to hire 100,000 more warehouse workers to meet the growing demand, and the company added $2 to American warehouse workers’ hourly pay.... One worker told me that she wished she could just stay at home with pay, like so many white-collar Americans are doing now.... 'We’re putting our lives in danger.'"

From "Amazon Confirms First Known Coronavirus Case in an American Warehouse/Workers at the Queens, New York, facility say employees were expected to come in for their night shift after the case was identified. Amazon denies this" (in The Atlantic).

I wonder how many people will walk away from jobs like that (especially if they get enough money and protection from eviction from the government). At the same time, there are people who have lost jobs — notably, servers in restaurants and bars. Amazon is hiring. Will those jobs go unfilled or will newly out of work people snap them up?

Keeping Amazon going is enormously important to the millions of Americans who are sheltering in place. I have not set foot in any store since March 2d, but we have received orders from Amazon (including an order from Whole Foods Prime Delivery). If Amazon stopped working, we would look at our dwindling supplies with much more anxiety and alarm.

186 comments:

eric said...

My wife does delivery service. She works for both Amazon and a Target owned grocery delivery company called "shipt"

She's making really good money right now because people are tipping handsomely.

If you use these services please remember to tip.

MadisonMan said...

I've been to Metcalfe's, and Trader Joe's, and a couple coffee shops for takeout in the past two days. Take reasonable precautions and you're unlikely to come to harm. Staying cooped up in a house just is not for me. Might go to Target later today, we'll see. Just back from a long walk, and having a little WFH action now.

Might do take-out pizza tonight. Either Novanto or Pizza Bruta. I'm spending as much as I can at local businesses. I Hope they survive.

Wa St Blogger said...

Warehouse, grocery, trucking workers all standing on the front lines so we can sleep safe at night.

If this disease is such a major crisis, we aught to give combat pay to the people who do their duty so we can cower in our homes waiting for the war to end.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Phone call for Laslo.

Nevertheless, there’s a choice to made. Send these guys home and everybody else has to come out. There should be a crisis pay premium and a crisis delivery premium.

pacwest said...

Can't live without drugs from China. Can't live without deliveries from Amazon. What next? How many barrels are we over exactly?

Bay Area Guy said...

"Keeping Amazon going is enormously important to the millions of Americans who are sheltering in place."

Fact 1: Wisconsin has 6 million people.

Fact 2: No. of Coronavirus deaths: O

Source: Johns Hopkins

No argument, just planting facts, like seeds.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Keeping Amazon going is enormously important to the millions of Americans who are sheltering in place... If Amazon stopped working, we would look at our dwindling supplies with much more anxiety and alarm."

So how is this NOT like Eloi and Morlocks?

How is it NOT that the Eloi believe it incredibly important that the Morlocks keep working so that the Eloi can shelter and stream opera?

The anxiety and alarm of dwindling supplies? Still much fucking lower on the list, for some, than losing a job and not being able to pay rent, much less purchase such supplies.

Those on the lifeboat encourage those in the water to keep swimming.

I am Laslo.

Calypso Facto said...

"Warehouse, grocery, trucking workers all standing on the front lines so we can sleep safe at night."

My world. In current environment of long hours and virus anxiety, potential unintended consequence of stimulus package: making it more attractive for current workers not to show up, and making it less attractive for out-of-work people in other sectors to take jobs.

Achilles said...

Keeping Amazon going is enormously important to the millions of Americans who are sheltering in place. I have not set foot in any store since March 2d, but we have received orders from Amazon (including an order from Whole Foods Prime Delivery). If Amazon stopped working, we would look at our dwindling supplies with much more anxiety and alarm.


Are you kidding me?

You think this is dangerous and we should shut everything down.

And then you say these people have to keep working so your life can continue while you shelter in place?

Are you joking? Are you seriously not seeing what you typed?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

You mean we can't count on folks lining up to be cannon fodder for sheltered elitists after all?

Boy, never saw that one coming.

Ipso Fatso said...

Dominos is hiring 10,000 due to increased demand per story I saw this am.

Achilles said...

I am convinced most people in this country just think stuff is produced by magic.

Rit said...

My ass is getting a little damp. Could all you folks treading water to keep me afloat kick a little harder?

MountainJohn said...

In addition to restaurant workers, who are indeed hard hit, don't forget entertainers, especially touring musicians who travel across the country performing at clubs and small concert venues. As these are now all closed, they are all out of work - actors and crew in touring stage shows likewise.

Let's hope that any relief that is given will include them, and all who work in the gig economy.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Achilles :Are you kidding me?

You think this is dangerous and we should shut everything down.

And then you say these people have to keep working so your life can continue while you shelter in place?

Are you joking? Are you seriously not seeing what you typed?


I'm speechless as well.

rhhardin said...

The deliverers aren't at much mortal risk. Just a flu risk. They're jobs and they pay, take it or not. Don't use the power to screw up the efficiency of e.g. Amazon.

Bay Area Guy said...

There are those advocating an economic shut-down, and "shelter in place," which is crushing the hotel, airlines, and restaurant industries -- except they want the minimum wage Amazon workers and the drivers to risk infection, to deliver goods?

Hmmm. Sounds kinda ironic to me.

Laslo Spatula said...

i stopped at WalMart after work yesterday, because I -- get this -- needed toilet paper.

Empty shelves.

Empty shelves at two other groceries.

Can some of you shelterers leave some of those dwindling supplies for us that are working?

Thank you in advance,

Laslo.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

How is it NOT that the Eloi believe it incredibly important that the Morlocks keep working so that the Eloi can shelter and stream opera?

Laslo-

I appreciate your perspective on the differences between those who have the luxury of being able to work from home (or being retired), and this who will be out of work if their job is shut down.

But isn't this a happy confluence of interests? Those who have the luxury (and those especially at risk) stay at home, and those that need to work have the opportunity, including a pay increase relative to Amazon's previous pay.

What's not to like?

FullMoon said...

Sounds like bs to me. Unions want in at Amazon. Prior to the virus, frequent articles about Amazon employees being un happy about being overworked and underpaid.

Making an excursion to Costco. Our trips revolve around coffee. Down to a couple of weeks worth now but coupled with curiosity as to how extreme situation is, and how traffic is negligible around here, seems like a good time.

Will be interesting to see if we can fulfill our "Costco list", and if the store is unusually busy.

CStanley said...

Laslo, can you please let us Eloi know how we should be behaving?

Asking in all seriousness....I’m in a situation like the Althouse-Meades, where this is a radical change in lifestyle and there are some inconveniences but we’re likely to be fine. I have enormous appreciation for people who are keeping our supply chains going as well as concern for them. Ditto for those on the front lines in healthcare, and ditto the concern for those who face financial crisis. I do count many friends and family members in that group and I’m certain that our financial future will be less solid as we will be helping them.

I have done a few small things so far but don’t know what else we can do.

rhhardin said...

Shortages always come from price controls. In this case anti-gouging laws.

You'd be rolling in TP if they were allowed to raise the price to clear the demand. It wouldn't take much.

Not only would you buy less but you'd notice that there's always TP on the shelves so that you don't have to buy any stash at all.

The price, there being no actual shortage, would return to normal very fast, as well.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

At the same time, there are people who have lost jobs — notably, servers in restaurants and bars

Hate to break it to you, but restaurants and bars are just the tip of the iceberg. In my town is difficult to find any business that is still open and functioning normally.

Fernandinande said...

So how is this NOT like Eloi and Morlocks?

Well, in the 1960 documentary, the Eloi didn't care if another Eloi drowned; they were more like cattle than princesses. (?)

The 2002 documentary is fake since the guy didn't come back.

traditionalguy said...

Interestingly the first thing the delivery stores ran out of was Bread and Water. In Home Prisoners Unite!

daskol said...

The older and otherwise vulnerable people sheltering at home are doing so to avoid catching the virus. The rest of the people sheltering at home are flattening the curve: trying not to catch the virus all at once and overwhelm our healthcare capacity. It's also a social good to catch the virus as it contributes to herd immunity over time. I think I've done my part, although unwittingly, through second hand exposure through my wife to someone who has tested positive. The fear around the virus itself--fear that is stoked by unsourced stories about permanent lung damage and poorly or thinly sourced stories about younger people falling gravely ill--is complicating the reality that the public health strategy is for lots and lots of people to get infected over time.

DanTheMan said...

Our local West Marine has toilet paper. It's for boat use, but will certainly work in household (or outhousehold) systems.

rhhardin said...

Rush's guest host says the good thing about whatever law Trump invoked is that it prevents manufacturers from raising the price of things that there's a shortage of.

Idiot. Moron.

Will Cate said...

"or will newly out of work people snap them up?" << that one

rhhardin said...

Take a shower after you poop instead of before. Solved.

Ignorance is Bliss said...


Blogger Achilles said...

You think this is dangerous and we should shut everything down.

When did Althouse ever advocate shutting everything down? There is a huge difference between shutting down entertainment and mass gatherings, and shutting down manufacturing and distribution of goods or provision of essential services.

Seems to me the Professor is being entirely consistent here.

rhhardin said...

For women and number 1, use Sharyl Crow's suggestion: one sheet.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Maybe if there hadn't been an overreaction ...

Fernandinande said...

I have it from a good source that 'patient zero' was Batman.

stlcdr said...

Robots.

[I'm not a robot]

Curious George said...

"If Amazon stopped working, we would look at our dwindling supplies with much more anxiety and alarm."

Jesus Christ.

Mattman26 said...

You want to work one of these jobs, then work it. You want to not, then don't. If Amazon has to raise pay, it will. The problems solve themselves.

"Cannon fodder" is a little over the top here, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

Achilles: Are you kidding me?

You think this is dangerous and we should shut everything down.

And then you say these people have to keep working so your life can continue while you shelter in place?


Apologies to our hostess if I missed it, but has Mme "We're All In This Together" expressed one smidgen of a bit of concern for the people getting financially pole-axed by all this?

Well, she did mention that maybe all those people who lost their service jobs could go work for Amazon! Oh wait, that's only of interest due to the vital importance of keeping Amazon running *for her sake*. (That's what's so great about having an army of unemployed. If some of 'em succumb to virus, well, there's plenty more to take their place and keep the deliveries coming!)

Meade said...

Fact 1: Wisconsin has 6 million people.

Reportedly.

Fact 2: No. of Coronavirus deaths: O

Reportedly.

rehajm said...

"If Amazon stopped working, we would look at our dwindling supplies with much more anxiety and alarm."

Jesus Christ.


Choosing who gets to eat who first when the food runs out is a good way to pass the time as you're isolating. (Is that helping?)

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

My wife stopped doing the grocery delivery gig. Customers were upset their orders weren't being filled because the stores are out of many things. Her tips were way down and she started to get some 1 star reviews.

I'm glad because those shipping services are way under paid. People want the shoppers to drive to the store, shop the list -- standing in line at the deli, stand in line and pay, take the groceries to their car, drive to customers house and unload groceries for $8-10 plus, maybe, a 5% tip. It's bullshit. We tip waiters 20-25% for much less effort.

daskol said...

I'm struggling with why explicit acceptance that Amazon is a strategically important business, the key cog in the home supply chain, is controversial. There is an obvious social benefit to facilitating social distancing at least for a few weeks, and that will be impossible without robust home delivery.

Anonymous said...

rhhardin:

Shortages always come from price controls. In this case anti-gouging laws.

You'd be rolling in TP if they were allowed to raise the price to clear the demand. It wouldn't take much.

Not only would you buy less but you'd notice that there's always TP on the shelves so that you don't have to buy any stash at all.

The price, there being no actual shortage, would return to normal very fast, as well.


True, but some kind of retro public-shaming (the pillory, head-shavings) of tp hoarders would nonetheless be very gratifying.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Those on the lifeboat encourage those in the water to keep swimming.

As far as I'm concerned, Laslo wins the internet today.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I was pleased to see some needed changes at the local Whole Foods.

We are getting hammered with snow, and usually, before a snow-fall, the grocery stores are crowded with shoppers stocking up, not so much for the snow, but so they don't need to go out in it.
That was me - yesterday. I was pleased to see:

Large hot and cold pre-made food buffet? Empty. This is good because that thing is a petri-dish anyway. I've complained about it before, to you all and to the managers there. People cozying up to the Whole Foods food-bar buffet as it it's one giant sample bar. A woman with a small sample cup - using the cup to scoop. She eat right out of the cup using her tongue as a spoon, swirling it around the cup to devour. Then she takes that same contaminated cup and re-dips it in the food-bar. Helping herself at will, without anyone saying anything. (Well I dod - I told her to stop it.) The people working at Whole Foods? no way. They say and do nothing. Again - After complaining to the manager - the MANAGER SAID "THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO." This was some time ago, mind you.

What leftwing biz-model garbage. Whole Foods manager basically told me that people who steal food and contaminate the food-bar are a higher priority that paying-customers.
It's like saying FU to those of us who abide by the law and social protocol.
It's like - hey - "Raise your hand if you want tax payers to pay for illegal entrant's free health care." and the leftwing biz-model says "oh yes!".

Bay Area Guy said...

@Meade,


Fact 1: Wisconsin has 6 million people.

Reportedly.

Fact 2: No. of Coronavirus deaths: O

Reportedly.

3/19/20, 12:03 PM
__________________________

Why reportedly? It comes from the same set of CDC data and Census data we all cite. You dispute the population of Wisconsin?

Ann Althouse said...

Some of you who are intent on being nasty are acting like this post is just about my wanting to use Amazon. It's about 300 million Americans having an interest in being about to maintain food and other supplies while we do social distancing. If all we could get was what's in the stores, we'd be dangerously crowding into stores, often just to idiotically stare at empty shelves. The system of delivery that we have is being maintained — or so the government assures us on a daily basis. If this belief were shaken, hundreds of millions of Americans would become alarmed.

Really, some of you are flat-out perverse and deliberately mean. I don't need to entertain your ugliness. I am working to uphold spirits, and if you don't appreciate it, fine, but if you are just here to mess up the place and make it nasty, I will have to face up the the reality that asking you to think before you publish is not enough

daskol said...

They definitely need to up the job benefits to include paid sick leave, if that's not already one of the job benefits. That would be a good use of bailout money.

rcocean said...

Bezos is worth $50 Billion. He can afford to give all these workers a big pay raise to cover the danger involved. Consider it "Combat Pay".

Michael K said...

Just got back from Safeway. Got most of what I wanted except eggs. Not an egg or any butter.

We have had a debate at Chicagoboyz about "price gouging" laws and I was almost the only one who thought they were a bad idea.

I have a theory that cheaper stores will be more cleaned out by hoarders. Safeway was better sticked than Frys, which is cheaper.

We have a high end grocery store in Tucson similar to Gelsens. I will go over there a little later and see if they have eggs.

daskol said...

Not an egg or any butter.

Ghee is your friend, and still available on Amazon.

rcocean said...

I think people are getting confused as to the purpose of all this social distancing. The Amazon Warehouse workers are presumably younger, fitter people. They aren't going to die from the Chinese Virus. As long as they stay away from Grandma, everyone will be OK.

We're limiting social contact to prevent those who have the disease, but don't know it, from spreading it to those high risk individuals. If you're not a high risk person, you have little to worry about.

heyboom said...

Fullmoon said:

Will be interesting to see if we can fulfill our "Costco list", and if the store is unusually busy.

Our Costco's here in SoCal are limiting the number of people allowed inside (I think it's 25 at a time) and the line went out the building, around the building, down the parking lot onto a sidewalk, then across the street and down another sidewalk to the street.

We didn't even stop the car.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

CStandley Laslo, can you please let us Eloi know how we should be behaving?

Speaking for myself...Laslo can certainly speak for himself.

It is the disconnect in attitude between the following that is jarring.

1.)OMG We all have to stay home to avoid spreading the virus. If you don't do this you are part of the problem and don't care about others. The danger is so bad that the world must stop. Right now!

And then

2.)But I still want OTHER people to be doing things for me while I am being safe. Those OTHER people need to keep working, despite the danger, and bring me my groceries and my things. They must keep working and doing.

The disconnect on who is supposed to/entitled to be safe and who has to work. Who CAN shelter in place with resource and those who CAN'T do the same because financially they must continue on. Obviously we are grateful for those who are putting themselves in danger. The heroes who are first responders, medical professionals, people working in manufacturing of the drugs and medical devices we need.

I appreciate the people who ARE working, very very much. But, I don't feel I have a right to ask them to put themselves and their families in danger....ESPECIALLY FOR THINGS THAT I CAN DO MYSELF...or should have done long ago. Going to the grocery store may be scary right now. Why should you assume that someone ELSE should do that for you.

A bit of empathy and some self reliance is what we all need right now.

Meade said...

Bay Area Guy, I'm saying those are the numbers reported. Doesn't make them facts. Or rather "true facts." Right?

CStanley said...

I am working to uphold spirits

I see this but also see it from the perspective of “salt in wounds.”

Maybe don’t work so hard at it. Reminds me of evangelical Christians who don’t understand why folks do t respond to their efforts at saving them.

More Marx brothers, please.

rcocean said...

Bezos is worth $50 Billion but treats his workers like Shit. Why no one calls him on it, is beyond me. If he personally gave each worker $1,000 in stock, that's $600 million or 1% of his money.

Yancey Ward said...

LOL, Laslo, I was thinking Eloi and Morlocks the other the day while reading your Marie Antoinette comments.

Calypso Facto said...

"They definitely need to up the job benefits to include paid sick leave, if that's not already one of the job benefits. That would be a good use of bailout money."

For some reason, the new legislation passed yesterday makes this mandatory ... but only for businesses with FEWER than 500 employees. Thanks for your typically helpful piling on of the already hurting little guys, Federal behemoth.

rhhardin said...

Really, some of you are flat-out perverse and deliberately mean. I don't need to entertain your ugliness. I am working to uphold spirits, and if you don't appreciate it, fine, but if you are just here to mess up the place and make it nasty, I will have to face up the the reality that asking you to think before you publish is not enough

I'd say reply to them where they're wrong.

There's no intellectual reason why women can't argue logically, except that it's not fun for them.

tcrosse said...

Because my neighborhood Kroger was impossible yesterday, I went to the more fashionable and expensive Albertsons today to score some cat food and litter. They had plenty of both, and little else on the shelves, which is why there were no long lines at the checkouts. Since restaurants are shuttered, you would think the food supply would be loosened up, at least for stuff like milk, butter, eggs, and bread.

eric said...

Blogger Bill, Republic of Texas said...
My wife stopped doing the grocery delivery gig. Customers were upset their orders weren't being filled because the stores are out of many things. Her tips were way down and she started to get some 1 star reviews.

I'm glad because those shipping services are way under paid. People want the shoppers to drive to the store, shop the list -- standing in line at the deli, stand in line and pay, take the groceries to their car, drive to customers house and unload groceries for $8-10 plus, maybe, a 5% tip. It's bullshit. We tip waiters 20-25% for much less effort.

3/19/20, 12:04 PM


Bill, what service does your wife work for?

Right now my wife is focusing on Shipt. Because it's paying the best. Smallest amount she works for at the moment is $20 plus tip. Lately she has been making about $40 an order on average. Last night she got a $30 tip!

Usually she won't leave the house for less than $20 for an order.

Maybe you should have your wife look into shipt?

pacwest said...

Yesterday I said that in a couple of months things could get ugly civility wise. Someone responded more like ten days. Looks like the timing was more like a couple of days.

rcocean said...

We've scouted our Grocery stores and now know where to go for what. People are flocking to Safeway and Whole foods, so the less well known stores are better stocked on everything except meat. Whole foods is best for meat, because they only sell over the counter and the hoarders can only buy small amounts. Target is stocked with everything else. However, there isn't a roll of TP anywhere. That doesn't matter to us, we have plenty.

Hopefully, all the idiots will calm down and stop buying 2-3 times what they need.

rcocean said...

Its absolutely absurd that people in rural America or small towns are being hit by Hoarders and lockdowns. They aren't the problem!

rcocean said...

I appreciate Althouse holding up our spirits, while we hold up our spirits, in our case whiskey.

Ralph L said...

One infected Amazon employee could make a lot of people sick. Self-checkout!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Bezos needs to snap to it and work to solve it. All we can do is think differently about how we order off of Amazon. for certain, anything you bring into the house - mail or packages - assume it's contaminated and do what you will. Give it a wipe! Might be a bit nutty, but so what.

Mark said...

Bay Area Guy, I tend to look at these statistics:

# of Dane County residents: about 600,000
# of ventilators at Dane Co hospitals: 110

Hope not too many get sick at once

Rick said...

Will those jobs go unfilled or will newly out of work people snap them up?

I'm sure Amazon's top priority is making people feel safe enough to go to work. I work for a medical services provider, some of our employees even work in effected facilities. We have significant absenteeism but most people are available to work (some facilities won't allow in any non-employee, although most instead have a decontamination procedure everyone goes through). I can't express how focused the operations management is on employee safety (and customers). We have meetings literally every day augmented by a dozen or so flash emails a day any time new information is released. This has been going on since the very first US case was diagnosed. Everyone in the company is trying to find PPE (millions in expense per month btw). Especially masks are hard to find - largely due to the tremendous volume we (and others) go through.

I'm sure Amazon has similarly created protection procedures. But it's harder to hire new people than it is to keep your current employees. If they lose a critical mass it's going to be hard to fix, but having almost unlimited resources means eventually they will pull through.

CStanley said...

https://youtu.be/p8oxndup1QM

CStanley said...

Yesterday I said that in a couple of months things could get ugly civility wise. Someone responded more like ten days. Looks like the timing was more like a couple of days.

An exponential curve

bagoh20 said...

I don't understand why some people get angry with saying what I'm about to, but it really is hysteria if you do.

The danger in Wisconsin of going to the supermarket is extremely low, much lower than the risk of getting in your car every day. If you make use of a disposable mask and gloves while you do it, the risk is virtually zero. Taking a shower or going for a walk today is much more risky. If you need supplies, just suit up and go to the damned store already. If you are young, and don't plan on visiting anyone old, then you definitely should not worry about this. Avoid unnecessary close contact, but don't be afraid of going out of the house for things you need.

Wisconsin had 5 new cases in the last 24 hours with thousands, if not millions, of visits to the grocery store every day, plus all the other contacts people are doing. I live near two Walmart superstores and they are packed every day, all day, with people lined up 30 minutes before they open every morning. If this was really a dangerous thing, then my state would have more than one dead guy by now who was already very sick.

I support you sheltering in, but let the fear go. It's not helping.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

gloves gloves gloves..

CStanley said...

Sure, let’s all glove and mask up. It’s not like they’re starting to run out in hospitals.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Achilles said...

Laslo Spatula said...
i stopped at WalMart after work yesterday, because I -- get this -- needed toilet paper.

Empty shelves.

Empty shelves at two other groceries.

Can some of you shelterers leave some of those dwindling supplies for us that are working?

Thank you in advance,

Laslo.


Reminds me of the fobbits in Afghanistan.

Ann Althouse said...

I don’t see why people go to stores looking for the very things that are unlikely to be there. It is much more rational to order on line. Social distancing.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I found gloves easily at Costco a week ago. Perhaps I was lucky? Not hospital supply gloves. At least I hope not.

I've tried to get masks on-line, (not just amazon, but anywhere) and it looks like there are plenty of options but many of the options are masks made in China. (LOL)

Another option for a mask is a "buff" or a winter ski mask.

Another option to protect the eyes? Various forms of goggles. It's up to you. No one should feel compelled to wear any of the above in low-risk situations. Often, it's just a safeguard. *** Or you could bust into a hospital and find the mother lode. But you'd be a George Conway. Don't be a George Conway.

Ann Althouse said...

“The danger in Wisconsin of going to the supermarket is extremely low, much lower than the risk of getting in your car every day. “

You are just making up a fact. This is utterly impossible to know. You don’t know the true rate of contagion, and you don’t know the traffic conditions here or how carefully any given driver drives.

bagoh20 said...

"Our Costco's here in SoCal are limiting the number of people allowed inside (I think it's 25 at a time) and the line went out the building, around the building, down the parking lot onto a sidewalk, then across the street and down another sidewalk to the street."

Whatever the risk is inside the store, they just increased it many times on the outside, but they can say they tried, and in the end that's what really matters.

I'm all for taking precautions as long as they don't hurt more than they help. Helping.

Stores should expand hours and let people know that stocks are going to be replenished regularly, and that supplies will be better during off hours to promote spreading out the traffic.

Ann Althouse said...

And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well.

MountainMan said...

My wife has ordered a few things on Amazon and they have already been received on on the way. We moved our second home outside Atlanta about 4 weeks ago, selling our condo and moving into a house. We went on a big trip to Costco and loaded up on stuff before all this hit and we are OK for now. I tried using Instacart delivery from Publix last week but it's a 4-day lead time and when the shopper finally got to pulling my order it was late in the day and I had to take substitutes for most things and did not get a couple. In addition to the Publix I also have a nice Kroger nearby. I have been making runs to the store early in the morning, right when they open, and except for paper products been able to get everything we needed. Even stopped in the Kroger yesterday about 2:00PM and it was like a normal day amost. Only paper products were out. May not need to go back for about 2 weeks as we have plenty of food.

I wondered for a while why I was having such good luck at my two stores when some of my friends in other parts of Atlanta have shortages. I think I figured it out. Where I live - in south Forsyth County - has a large Indian population, mainly doctors, engineers, IT workers. About half my neighbors are Indian. I see some in the Kroger and Publix but I discovered there is a big Patel Bros. store nearby. It's like a big Wal-Mart for Indians. I'm guessing a lot of them shop there.

tcrosse said...

It is much more rational to order on line.

So it is, but there's still no guarantee that things will be in stock, or available in a timely manner.

mccullough said...

It’s time for the madness to end. Everyone get back to work and school.

It’s incredibly fucking condescending to think that Amazon warehouse workers should go to work but others should shelter at home.

This is not The Plague.

This is Boomer Selfishness and Stupidity.

nob490 said...

Boy you do get touchy when you're criticized. Maybe explain yourself a little better. Great blog, smart woman, but you don't take it too well sometimes.

Like one of my sisters who is a teacher, and guaranteed pay for as long as this lasts: "Isn't this great? Work from home, read, do some crafts, learn a new musical instrument."

All fine for those who don't have to worry about money.

I'm with Laslo.

tim in vermont said...

I wanted some cold medicine, which I usually have around, and both stores I tried were sold out, so I ordered from Amazon and here it is today, plus one extra, just because. Of course, thankfully, the symptoms have already cleared up.

mccullough said...

Sure. Driving is dangerous. But I want someone to drive packages to my house.

For I am a Boomer. I Am Important!

mccullough said...

Deliver My Food. Provide My Healthcare.

As if these people don’t have children. Or can’t get sick.

This is bullshit.

The Fucking Worst Generation

bagoh20 said...

"Sure. Driving is dangerous. But I want someone to drive packages to my house."

That's a great point. Is it moral to ask someone to take a greater risk delivering your food so you can avoid a lesser risk staying in?

Laslo Spatula said...

Being that I seem to be on the verge of the Delete Zone, a few words on helping.

• Donate to a food bank. If you are comfortable, donate more.

• Utilize small businesses now for those things you had put off getting done. Need trees trimmed? Now would be great. Oil change? Get it done early. Take-out an extra night this week? Yes.

• Things you were going to do yourself? Maybe hire someone to do it. Let them do the drywall. You can stay six feet away - they'll understand.

• If you're going out: please try to avoid traditional 'busy times' -- lunch as an example. Let the working people get a chance to get in and out of the stores, etc in their available off-work time.

• Drop a card off at any at-risk neighbors with a contact number, in case they have a not-quite-an-emergency need.

• Have patience in your dealings with those still working: nerves are tight and getting tighter. If they tell you that you can only get two rolls of toilet paper, smile and comply.

• Perspective matters. Maybe more now than a few weeks ago.

I am Laslo.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Laslo, great post. I’m trying where I can. Our finances are uncertain but I did not cancel my bimonthly housecleaner who came today; I put a couple extra fifties in her envelope. She told me most of her clients canceled her because, I gather, they are afraid she traveled to Mexico. She’s an American citizen who hasn’t left this city in months but what’s someone’s living when you can live in irrational fear and moderate racism?

Theranter said...

Laslo, as someone in retail that (for now) is considered an essential service, thank you for 1:21 post. It's excellent.

BTW, I still can't put my hair in a ponytail without saying "swoosh, swoosh!"

Curious George said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jimmy said...

Trying to suit up for a simple trip to the store is a waste of time, and precious resources needed by people who are actually at risk-police, nurses, etc.
Masks don't fit well, and are no barrier to germs. watch people wearing masks- they tug, and move them constantly. worthless.
simple soap and water. bar soap, dish soap. small amount in water. even cold water, will kill virus. wash your hands. before you go into the store, and right after you get out.
If that isn't enough to quiet your germ death fetish, then by all means wear a bubble boy suit, full time. Your survival chances won't actually improve that much, but you will be great entertainment for the rest of us.

Ann Althouse said...

Those of you who are serving ugliness. Deliver it to somebody who wants it. I do not. Just stop yourself. Last warning. Just say nothing if you are not helping. Life is short enough. I am not going to spend time doing cleanup after people with so little willingness to cooperate. Go do your own blog.

BarrySanders20 said...

" I did not cancel my bimonthly housecleaner who came today; I put a couple extra fifties in her envelope. She told me most of her clients canceled her because, I gather, they are afraid she traveled to Mexico. She’s an American citizen who hasn’t left this city in months"

Similar here. Our housecleaner is great and the dogs love her. We asked her not to come until June but we are paying her anyway as if she was coming. We are fortunate to have two incomes unaffected (for now) by the panic. Yesterday I gave the barber/stylist $100 for a $37.50 cut to help her a bit. It's not much but hopefully people with means are doing this rather than staying isolated at home. Hermits don't help keep the economy moving.

Curious George said...

"Ann Althouse said...
And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well."

I don't know why driving would be dangerous, but let's agree it is. I'm curious how you think that food gets to your house. I'm also curious how that distribution system for your favorite artisan bakery works.

Ann Althouse said...

No one is forced to work. Everyone can walk away. I think losing a job is much worse than having a job you don’t want. The places that had to close have a problem, and other places are considered essential. If you work in one of those, you have the benefit of a job and you are also a kind of hero in a war of sorts AND you can quit if you don’t like it and be no worse position than those who are thrown out of work.

Michael said...

Groceries are out of everything because the kids and working spouses are at home and it is not “helpful” to go out to eat. Expect this to continue. When testing becomes more available this is going to be much worse because the panic will increase with the numbers going up. This shit show will get shittier. Much. Shittier.

Curious George said...

My neighbor doesn't drive, and his wife that does is grossly obese, has Type II Diabetes, and has asthma. She get's this she will have a very bad time, or even die.

On top of this her sister died, leaving both of them to be guardians to her two sons. Fortunately they have the financial ability to get through this, but I run errands for them when needed and when I can. At least it cuts down on some of her exposure.

I also regularly stop in to see how my other elderly neighbors are doing, and if the need anything.

bagoh20 said...

"You are just making up a fact. This is utterly impossible to know. You don’t know the true rate of contagion, and you don’t know the traffic conditions here or how carefully any given driver drives.."

I could put numbers to it, and I believe you actually understand that driving is more dangerous, but the exact level of risk is not the point. The point is that the risk for both is minuscule and you were always willing to take that level of risk before, and will be again. It's an irrational fear when a mask and gloves would make it very near 100% safe. It doesn't matter how carefully you drive, someone else can hit you. With sensible precautions you can totally control the risk from the virus even at the store. Something you could never do with the risk of driving.

FullMoon said...

Just returned from a local Costco. Pretty normal as to volume of shoppers. Milk, butter and eggs not available at three local grocery stores are at Costco.

Cashier scans card without touching. Dedicated employee with gloves to grind coffee, then wipes down area.

No toilet paper, employee passing paper towels to people waiting in line for same.

Signs saying, no returns on toilet paper, paper towels, sanitizer, wet wipes etc.
I wonder how many people bought too much bulk toilet paper and have no garage or cabinet to store it? Gonna be looking at that stacked in the bedroom for months to come?

Selfishly drove twelve miles to drop off a six pack of Charmin for a peripheral. No doubt they would start using paper towels and napkins and perhaps plug up the sewer pipe and I would have to rent a machine and go clear it, again..

Calypso Facto said...

Laslo: thanks for 1:21 -- very HELPFUL (so I hope you don't get deleted) and I'm the same page with everything else you wrote too. Me and my staff showing up to work every day, because the food doesn't deliver itself to groceries or even to Amazon.

Achilles: Hadn't seen that fobbit video before -- gold. Paging direct commission Mayor Pete?

BagO: "Is it moral to ask someone to take a greater risk delivering your food so you can avoid a lesser risk staying in?" In the Civil War, they called paying someone else to go take your conscription a "commutation fee". Some things don't change, apparently.

exhelodrvr1 said...

To add to Laslos list of ways to help:
Donate blood. A lot of the mobile blood drives have been canceled due because of work places shutting down, but donation centers are still open
You can donate platelets every two weeks (process takes about 2.5 hours from when you arrive at the center to when you leave)
You can donate whole blood every 8 weeks (process takes about 45 minutes from when you arrive to when you leave)
You can do a double-red cell donation every sixteen weeks (process takes about 2 hours).

Can't do a different-type donation until the time frame from the previous donation has expired. (i.e. if you donate platelets, you can't donate anything for at least two weeks.)

Red Cross has donation centers most places; in a lot of areas there are also local centers, and some hospitals have their own donation programs.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I like the idea of having special shop times for people who are elderly. And I hope - their care givers. Again - reminder- if you know someone who might need a little extra help, please offer it. We are all blessed. Spread the love.

Michael said...

In Re housekeepers. We are giving ours a paid holiday for the duration. They need the money more than I need their help or want their company.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I’m not saying you guys are wrong for paying people to stay home, or that our government is for considering a huge rollout of same — I just don’t know. But the idea of more conditioning for staying out of active, connected, meat-space community gives me pause.

purplepenquin said...

Those of you who are serving ugliness.

Matthew 7:3-5

eric said...

bagoh20 said...
"Sure. Driving is dangerous. But I want someone to drive packages to my house."

That's a great point. Is it moral to ask someone to take a greater risk delivering your food so you can avoid a lesser risk staying in?

3/19/20, 1:19 PM


Yes, it is.

Please don't be a moral busybody.

My wife makes good money delivering to people. She likes the money. We can use the money. And, she loves doing it when people in need order from her. A couple weeks ago a blind lady ordered from her. She asked if she could help put the groceries away for the lady. The lady agreed. It was an eye opening experience for my wife because she didn't realize how meticulous a blind person has to be in their home.

Anyway, no one is being forced. It would be immoral to force someone. Everyone is doing this freely.

prairie wind said...

Sure. Driving is dangerous. But I want someone to drive packages to my house.

For I am a Boomer. I Am Important!


If all those awful boomers stopped their selfish social distancing and left the house to do their own shopping, imagine the crowds at the stores. Imagine the virus in those crowds of boomers.

If everyone did their own shopping and delivering, what will the Amazon/UPS/FedEx/shipt drivers have to deliver? My son will probably lose his job soon because the restaurant he manages doesn't do much takeout/drivethru business. It will probably close and he'll need a job because he has bills to pay, like everyone else. I hope he gets hired by Amazon/UPS/FedEx/shipt...if they have something to deliver, that is.

The idea is to slow the spread of the virus and staying at home is one way to do that. Some people can stay home and others cannot. I'm staying at home and having everything possible delivered because without us doing that we eliminate job possibilities.

Arashi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

Wear a mask to mitigate transmission.

SensibleCitizen said...

The amazon model is relatively safe for workers. Warehouses are huge and workers are spread out. The risky process is getting through security and clocking in, but Amazon can queue up their employees with as much spacing as required because security is just inside the front door of their facilities.

I see no risk in driving and no risk of dropping a package at the door. For grocery delivery, just sit them on the porch, ring the bell and step back. I thank God everyday that my local wine shop is delivering!

Arashi said...

Well I am glad Amazon and the other online delivery folks are continuing to work. I do have some stuff coming from Amazon, but it is normal everyday stuff that I cannot find locally at all so I use Amazon.

I am in the over 60 age group (so is wife) and we are doing our normal shopping at our local stores, normally Monday, and are finding most of what we normally go out for. Really happy that so far fresh produce is not really affected and that Trader Joes and Safeway are keeping up on stocking the shelves - though paper products took another hit this past weekend.

Trying to say thanks to the folks at the stores for being open, and really trying to avoid the panic spreaders and hair on fire folks as they are not helping.

Also happy to see there are now three working treatments for patients who get the CCP Virus, and bouyed by the start of human trials for vaccine here in Seattle and knowing that the universal flu vaccine should start human trials in early April to see if it works for CCP Virus as well as regular flu, which if it does will be a big help.

Stay safe, stay healthy - don't panic.

mccullough said...

The crowds at the stores?

Like normal Thursday’s?

Can no one remember what life was like one month ago?

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well.


Seriously.

Are you trying to make a joke with this?

I make jokes in a similar manner. The straight face is what makes it funny.

But sometimes you have to let the other people know you are joking.

mccullough said...

Staying home eliminates more jobs than jobs created by staying home.

Which is why unemployment claims are shooting through the roof.

Go look at a map where Amazon warehouses are. Now look at a map where people are losing their jobs because of this Hysteria.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Oh, and regarding housekeeper: I asked her to please help herself to anything her family or anyone she knows needs that we have here, supplies wise, and she thanked me profusely but didn’t take me up on it. She’s a dignified woman.

FullMoon said...

Thank you President Trump for pressuring FDA

The FDA has approved hydroxychloroquine to be prescribed to help treat Coronavirus.

Stephen said...

For everyone in the key supply chains, they deserve hazard pay and the best possible protections. By enabling shelter in place, their service is critical to limiting the consequences of the pandemic.

FullMoon said...

I have been doing dozens of good deeds. I was told long ago, it doesn't count if you talk about it. Bummer..

bagoh20 said...

Silly men. We always try to fix things, even when our women don't really want them fixed. It's a hard thing to learn.

Achilles said...

There is real damage being done here.

You only get to cry wolf once.

Maybe one and a half times.

Not everyone is going to go through and look at the numbers like I have and will.

Next time the media and the little boy are going to freak out and the Townspeople are going to remember what we are doing now and they are going to remember what actually happened.

I hope COVID-20 is like COVID-19 in that situation. Hopefully COVID-20 tops out around 100,00-500,000 deaths like Swine Flu did.

Hopefully COVID-20 is not like the Spanish Influenza which had broad temperature and humidity intervals.

Because if it is nobody is going to listen to the little boy and the media next time.

chickelit said...

Anecdotal and googleable news sources tell me that the ports at Long Beach and San Pedro have slowed way down. It seems only a matter of time before Amazon warehouses run out of stuff to sell - at least the stuff sources in China.

Ken B said...

Ann
You are complaining about ugliness. Your implications that Trump's complaints about communist China are somehow equivalent to the propaganda of the Chinese communists is as ugly as it gets. I sorry if you think my opinion on that is ugly.

Meade said...

" I was told long ago, it doesn't count if you talk about it."

Novel virus, novel rules: DO talk about it. Especially if you yourself are doing those very things. It means you have experience taking specific actions others might be able to benefit from, ask questions about, learn. Shine your light and spread enlightenment and truth. Don't hide it under the bushel basket of Piousness or let yourself become infected by the Disease of Conceit.

Michael said...

Anybody here have H1N1 like I did? And did they suffer at home like I did and thus were not included in the 1.6 million or so who went for treatment and thus were tested? One point six million.

rcocean said...

People ordering online ARE helping. Not only are they self-isolating, they're reducing the number of people at the stores. Which is an important thing. I wish I could talk some sense into these people with Grocery carts full of canned goods, soda pop, and cereal. Why do think they need a 3 month supply or Rice krispies? Or 12 Big Jugs of Pepsi. Or 6 jars of peanut butter.

All of which I've seen. Don't they understand, its not a flood or a hurricane? The food will keep coming - the stores will have oatmeal next week.

Rit said...

Because if it is nobody is going to listen to the little boy and the media next time.
President Biden will because he won't even know what day of the week it is let alone what happened a whole year ago.

Anonymous said...

Oh, damn, one more thing. I forgot to thank you for the many enjoyable years of reading and posting. I shall always have fond memories of my days as an Althouse Hillbilly.

rhhardin said...

I avoided a census worker by doing my census online. Very quick, no obtrusive questions except my origins. It seemed to accept American.

In the 2010 census they hounded me, but had sent me a long form. The penalty for refusing to answer is $100, the penalty for misleading them is $500, so obviously not answering is the way to go on the long form. As it happened they just hounded and then let the matter drop.

Calypso Facto said...

"The penalty for refusing to answer is $100"

The penalties are just for show: "It has been nearly a half-century since anyone was prosecuted for refusing to answer, and legal analysts say the law is now more of a prompt than a threat backed by punishments."

rhhardin said...

Oh, damn, one more thing. I forgot to thank you for the many enjoyable years of reading and posting. I shall always have fond memories of my days as an Althouse Hillbilly.

She can't do the economics and so argues feelings, which doesn't work, and she finds it frustrating.

Deciding to die on the hill of feelings is not a good idea but that would be arguing logic again.

The next step would be sulk.

Or you could find the whole thing the theater of of sexual difference.

Meade said...

"Anybody here have H1N1 like I did?"

I missed it. But I remember it well. Our 3 young adult children were all in the most vulnerable age group. Young people were dying of influenza.

I came down with the Fujian flu in 2003-2004. Three weeks in bed, crawling to the toilet, sucking on ice chips, nearer to death by suffocation than I would wish on Chuck, Ritmo, or any other malicious troll. As soon as I recovered enough to drive myself to the doctor, I got the very first seasonal flu shot of my life and I've shown up religiously to get my annual flu vax every year since.

Step #1 Take care of your own health. When your selfcare isn't enough, ask for help.

rhhardin said...

I had the line ready, "Do I send the $100 to you or somebody else?" But the opportunity didn't come up.

The theater of moral temptation.

rhhardin said...

I haven't had the flu since the early 70s. Apparently it was the flu to end all flu's. Never have gotten a flu shot.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I avoided a census worker by doing my census online.

Alexa, order favas beans and a nice chianti...

Meade said...

Deciding to die on the hill of logic is not a good idea either but that would be expressing a feeling again.

The next step would be sneer.

mccullough said...

Throw out the census forms. They are like jury summons now. Junk mail.

If they hassle you just tell them you are an illegal alien. Then you are fine

rhhardin said...

I don't think a sneer is involved. The women go to sulk, and the men go to shrug.

walter said...

Laslo,
TP at Amazon!

Achilles said...

bagoh20 said...

I could put numbers to it, and I believe you actually understand that driving is more dangerous, but the exact level of risk is not the point. The point is that the risk for both is minuscule and you were always willing to take that level of risk before, and will be again. It's an irrational fear when a mask and gloves would make it very near 100% safe. It doesn't matter how carefully you drive, someone else can hit you. With sensible precautions you can totally control the risk from the virus even at the store. Something you could never do with the risk of driving.

Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.

Worldwide of course.

US Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year. An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled.

Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year.

1600 seems low. I wonder what happens when they turn 16. ;)

The roads are nice and clear right now. I am sure that number goes down this year because of this.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

If you find yourself being upset at the reaction to a post, it's possible you didn't communicate your point as clearly as you thought. While Althouse has a talent for speaking with legal and logical precision, I don't know if that talent serves her equally well in all situations. There is a great deal at stake here. Tensions and emotions are running high. We all should be taking great care in what and how we communicate on this topic.

rhhardin said...

related

Who can understand why two lovers who idolised one another the night before, because of one word misinterpreted, split up, eastward one, west the other, goaded by hate, revenge, love and remorse, and never see each other again, both cloaked in lonely pride. This is a miracle renewed every day and is none the less miraculous for that.

Lautreamont

WhoKnew said...

I deliver to grocery stores. Except for the inexplicable toilet paper buying surge (and the bread aisle) everything seems to be pretty well stocked. I'm fully cognizant of the dangers of the job and don't care/worry at all. Nor do I feel that I am somehow being imposed on to keep working so the well-off can avoid the danger. I couldn't stand being cooped up in the house all day sheltering in place. As it is, I get to drive around all morning listening to my own CDs and get paid for it. And really, it's not that hard to stay 6 feet from everyone else in the store. I do stop to wash my hands more often than I did before; a stop in the restroom to scrub up at most every store. On the other hand, I'm not visiting my 95 year old mother or my brother on chemo, just in case I'm the asymptomatic carrier. Although I will do their grocery shopping for them because they should not be out and about.

Francisco D said...

The lack of control we are experiencing in our lives with the Wuhan coronavirus is unnerving and frustrating. People shopping and hoarding supplies is one way of gaining a sense of control over their lives. Let's not blame them for it.

Althouse and Meade have their own ways of gaining a sense of control over their lives. It may differ in degree from how others here might do things, but there is no point in criticizing them.

We have hunches, but none of us know how this is going to turn out and what worked and didn't work. When it is over, we can do the postgame analyses. Until then, we can try to argue in a forthright, but non-attacking manner. In that sense, let me be the first to offer a mea culpa.

Meade said...

"I don't think a sneer is involved. The women go to sulk, and the men go to shrug."

Perhaps, but the greatest women and men do neither. To paraphrase Mrs. Trump: Be great.

Ken B said...

I was at the grocery store today, in Ontario. Milk and eggs were being limited, and flour was almost gone. Plenty of everything else. We stocked up perishables again to avoid going out shopping for 10 days. We stocked up dried beans etc earlier, so if we have to we can keep ourselves alive for at least a month, with running water and power.

Meade said...

Totally agree with the Lautreamont. Therefore, make a miracle every day.

Fernandinande said...

Ann Althouse said...
"And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well.

Seriously.
Are you trying to make a joke with this?


Transferring your own risk of physical injury to other people is no laughing matter - people who can afford it should do it.

Achilles said...

Meade said...
Deciding to die on the hill of logic is not a good idea either but that would be expressing a feeling again.

The next step would be sneer.



I am fortunate that my wife has not been taken in by this.

She is out and about with a lot more people every day than I am. She sees a mix of working and welfare class people as a home health nurse.

But they are all the people on the margins that are really feeling the effects of this shutdown.

The people on this board are clearly not from that group.

That group of people is very unhappy right now. They are not getting 2 weeks paid leave.

There will be famine and hard times. 1000$ from the government will not make up for this.

Fernandinande said...

"This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you." -- Mr. Burns

Fernandinande said...

Funny pichers -

Dog chews up life saving

Where's your god now?

Sisyphus works from home

Ken B said...

Althouse is right that Amazon is part of the emergency infrastructure. They are behaving as such. Good for them. But it is also true that Althouse has no clue how Morlock Eloi Let Them Eat Cake she sounds in this post. Imelda Marcos level. I won’t explain, most here see it clearly. If Althouse doesn’t, and she seems not to, she needs to take a step back, clear her head, and just look at her implications about how some should be grateful to keep her supplied.

Meade said...

"so if we have to we can keep ourselves alive for at least a month"

Your keeping yourself alive — and everyone else who stays healthy, rational and calm — benefits me and my loved ones.

Achilles said...

My wife does other wifey things though.

The sneer is the wrong answer.

Staying at work for a couple extra hours is a good answer.

Taking the kids to the park is another good answer.

If you are really forced to it..

"Yes honey..."

"That sounds awful..."

Ken B said...

“Your keeping yourself alive — and everyone else who stays healthy, rational and calm — benefits me and my loved ones.”

Yes, it does. My point is, everyone should have gotten enough staples to keep themselves for a while. If you and your wife are worried about your “dwindling stocks” then maybe you need to act today.

Meade said...

"The people on this board are clearly not from that group."

I personally know someone on this... board... who is from that very group — home health nurse. We are from many groups, mostly doing all we can, giving as much as we can, and hoping for the best for everyone.

rhhardin said...

Keeping you alive is a service, for which there is pay. It's like every service.

Extra large tips is a way of saying it's appreciated - it's worth unusally more to you today. Or pay in obvious gratitude.

As for taking risks for others, every job does that. In this case the young are taking a much smaller risk than the old would be, so the young wind up doing it. They don't require as much hazard pay and so gravitate to the job.

There are worse jobs. Kamakaze pilot was a bad one. I have no idea what the pay was like. They didn't strike, though. Obviously no union organizers.

Meade said...

“dwindling stocks”

To be fair, she said “dwindling supplies.” While what she described may not apply to you, it might apply strongly for someone else.

rhhardin said...

The interesting thing to watch for is Amazon working something clever out, in this inventive and high tech age.

Not a for system of class grudges.

rhhardin said...

Also watch for the government bureaucracy to shut down clever solutions.

Ken B said...

I wish we had more flour, tbh. But the shelves were almost bare, just 5 bags left. We have enough for a couple weeks so I left them.
I wish we had bought more whiskey though.
Tomorrow we pick up online groceries for our nurse step daughter.

bagoh20 said...

From these comments I conclude that the most dangerous thing you can do is be on a hill.

Meade said...

"I wish we had bought more whiskey though."

I understand the feeling. I don't wish to preach. But this might be one of those times that calls for keeping sober, well-rested, mentally sharp, fully nourished and unintoxicated. YMMV (especially if you're running high ethanol gasoline.)

bagoh20 said...

" But this might be one of those times that calls for keeping sober, well-rested, mentally sharp, fully nourished and unintoxicated."

Ooops! I think I get an "F", but I am fully nourished.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well."

Good Lord, stop digging!

None of my business, but I'm curious why the Meade-Althouse's are doing the whole bomb shelter thing. Indeed, Althouse seems emotionally invested in it. My impression is that you're quite healthy for your age and, usually, enjoy being active. Why this extreme response?

Amadeus 48 said...

I think the real question is what happens when you contract the virus. I can’t be specific about the Asian flu, the Hong Kong flu, the Russian flu, the swine flu, MERS or SARS, although I lived through them all, as did Althouse, but I think I never got very sick if I got sick at all, nor did my friends or my friends’ parents or grandparents. This virus has gotten so much exposure that Althouse hasn’t left her house, by her own choosing, since March 2nd. Most people don’t have that luxury. Now she’s concerned about Amazon fail. (!!!!!!)

What I see is a society that has lost touch with the way the world is. Northern Italy has been swamped with Chinese workers in the luxury leather and textile businesses. A pestilence breaks out in Wuhan, the home of many of these workers, simultaneously with the Chinese New Year. Many of these workers came back from visits to their families carrying this virus with them. Northern Italy is full of multigenerational families sharing the same houses. What has happened is a fairly predictable outcome. Think about the heatwave in Paris a few years ago in 2003. I think about 14,000 Parisians died that August, mostly old folks who didn’t go en vacance, like their children. In Europe, over 74,000 people died from heat.

The US is a large country where people move around. We’ll see what happens, but basic public health warnings should be observed. Wash your hands, stay home if you are sick, capture any cough or sneeze and wash your hands immediately, and if you are in a vulnerable group, go quiet for a month. But there is no reason you can’t go to a store or take a walk, or carry out from a restaurant. If you are under fifty, there is no real reason that you couldn’t go to a restaurant. More than 80% of Americans are not going to get this bug. Many of those who get it are not going to get sick or transmit it to someone else. Most of those who get sick are going to recover. A few people in a country of 330,000,000 are going to die from this. We are all going to die of something. Live your life and be considerate of others.

This Amazon story reads exactly like a union organizing pitch. Don’t worry, Althouse, but whose side are you on?

Meade said...

"None of my business, but I'm curious why the Meade-Althouse's are doing the whole bomb shelter thing. Indeed, Althouse seems emotionally invested in it. My impression is that you're quite healthy for your age and, usually, enjoy being active. Why this extreme response? "

Simple: we do not want to be spreaders. That would be against our individual, marital and family moral values.

Meade said...

"Ooops! I think I get an "F", but I am fully nourished."

Good. A Scout Is: trustworthy loyal helpful friendly courteous kind obedient cheerful thrifty brave clean and fully nourished.

On The Lord!

Amadeus 48 said...

Meade—not quite the Scout Law, but close. Now that I have read the comments, I see where Meadehouse is going. You want to be considerate of others.

When you do venture into a grocery store, I think you’ll find some version of what you want, even disposable items to wipe yourself, assuming you haven’t spent your time installing that bidet that Althouse ordered at 3:00 AM a week ago. Just keep that plunger at the ready! It’ll clear most blockages.

Wa St Blogger said...

I came down with the Fujian flu in 2003-2004.

Meade, you can't call it that. Please use the clinical code.

Howard said...

Bushpig of the Koolrabbi: Tensions and emotions are running high

Actually no. Things are much calmer everywhere. The Masshole drivers are downright patient. Even Achilles has his hysterically flamboyant emotions under a semblance of control. Francisco d is being gracious and conciliatory. If you really believe in the fake panic perpetuated, you should check yourself first... for what it's worth...

tcrosse said...

My friendly neighborhood Kroger offers free online shopping with loading-dock pickup. This seems like a good compromise in spreading the risk of infection, although I prefer to look over the produce and meat rather than delegating that chore. My father wouldn't buy a chicken unless he had seen it walking around first and watched the guy cleaning it. We shall see if they can come across with milk, bread, butter, and eggs.

Amadeus 48 said...

Ah, yes. The Fujian flu of 2003. I forgot that one. They called it bird flu for a while, and I lost interest. You obviously had a keen interest in surviving, Meade.

The Wikipedia article on Fujian flu is interesting because it shows the PRC following the same playbook they are following here. They create something though some half-assed (does that explain the TP shortage?) industrial farming practice, they deny it, they act insulted, they demand a different name, they say someone did it to them, and they accept some dubious outcome and then claim they were vindicated.

That’s called a “Jussie” today

Jim at said...

And you have to go in your car to get to the store. If driving is dangerous, ordering on line is a solution to that problem as well. - AA

And with that, I'm done.

Your attitude the last week or so has been insufferable. Lecturing others on being nasty, while pouring heaps on your own nastiness on top of it all.

Your blog. Do as you wish. Maybe give your shoes another wash.

See the rest of you guys and gals over at Ace's.

MD Greene said...

God help us if we depend on the mercies of Jeff Bezos --

--who hires gig workers to make deliveries in his vans in our town,

-- who tried last fall to run Federal Express out of business -- you know, the FedEx that is the biggest employer in Memphis (a city that is 65 percent African American) and that provides health insurance and FICA matching contributions to its employees,

-- who is setting up a new "logistics" location in already-rich Nashville across the state to enable vertical control of his business from warehouse to jet to doorstop to Ring,

-- who accommodates but does not regulate multitudes of skeezy online sellers from another continent,

-- whose company has yet to pay a single dollar in income tax, and

-- who's now dropping $165 million on a little estate in Bel Air for himself and his new squeeze, a world-class adventuress.

Call me crazy, but I find the charm of Jeff Bezos is wearing thin.

As a practical matter, two groceries in our town (but probably not Whole Foods) are limiting the number of customers inside at any given moment. Their employees wipe down the handles of grocery carts after every use. One store even has a special hour, 7 to 8 a.m., reserved exclusively for senior citizens. I learned that this morning when I arrived at 7:45; used the time for social-distanced chitchats al fresco with the other kids. Not so bad.

Achilles said...

Howard said...
Bushpig of the Koolrabbi: Tensions and emotions are running high

Actually no. Things are much calmer everywhere. The Masshole drivers are downright patient. Even Achilles has his hysterically flamboyant emotions under a semblance of control. Francisco d is being gracious and conciliatory. If you really believe in the fake panic perpetuated, you should check yourself first... for what it's worth...

Don't worry.

This will not last.

As soon as the "emergency" is over there will be consequences.

Particularly for the media and for the party of Joe "Trump is Xenophobic" Biden.

Open borders and free trade with China is not looking too swell right now.

Neither is running an Impeachment "Trial" while the president is dealing with a global pandemic. I said it then and I say it now I wish the Republican's had voted for more witnesses.

They aren't reporting on polls of Trump's handling of the virus for a reason.

This boomerang is coming around hard and fast on China and their democrat allies.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Simple: we do not want to be spreaders. That would be against our individual, marital and family moral values."

Great. But is that rational given your specific set of circumstances? Unless you're doing it as a kind of spiritual retreat. Then by all means, Om.

Meade said...

Amadeus, she's had a bidet since 1996. She's a very civilized girl.

Howard said...

Give it a rest, Achilles. A dystopian future is not appropriate path for the redemption you seek. First of all it's not going to happen and since it won't happen you won't be redeemed. You need to get over yourself some other way. I hear ibogaine works wonders.

Meade said...

"But is that rational given your specific set of circumstances?"

How is it not rational?

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Weighing your current level of risk against your current actions. That may change tomorrow, but today it seems very unlikely that you would be carrier or spreader.

walter said...

Meade said...
I don't wish to preach. But this might be one of those times that calls for keeping sober, well-rested, mentally sharp, fully nourished and unintoxicated.
--
That's right.
Soon we'll be getting guvmint checks inside rolls of TP shot from national guard air cannon trucks.
Gotta be ready.

Meade said...

Ha!