December 16, 2019

"In the wake of combative impeachment hearings, those surveyed oppose by 51%-45% a Senate vote to convict Trump on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress."

"Though those results may be sobering – almost half of Americans support removing the president from office – they are a bit better for him than the survey's findings in October, when Americans split 47%-46%. The findings underscore how durable Trump's support has been even in the face of testimony before the House Intelligence Committee that he used military aid and a coveted Oval Office meeting to pressure the president of Ukraine to announce investigations into one of Trump's political rivals."

That's USAToday reporting its new poll — under the headline "Narrow majority opposes removing Trump from office if he is impeached."

It's a "narrow" majority because 51% is only one percentage point above 50%, but it's 6 percentage points above the 45% who support removing Trump. And it's 4 percentage points more than opposition to removal the same survey found back before all the public hearings.

And I'm laughing at the idea that Trump's support is "durable... even in the face of" all that testimony. First off, it didn't just endure. It grew. A lot. And I don't see how the USA Today has a basis for characterizing the growth as something that happened "in the face of" the testimony. It seems just as rational to speculate that it grew because of the testimony. The hearings made impeachment seem like a partisan overreach. Or the hearings made the idea of removing the President seem more real and made people think something like, no, that's not how we behave in the United States. Before that reality set in, perhaps, people were more willing to say yes to removal because it seemed like a way express strong disapproval of the President.

I'm just guessing, of course, but my point is only that the USA Today should work harder on journalistic professionalism. I know it may sound silly. A pipe dream. But I like to say it anyway.

ADDED: Meade read this post and made a point that I've never heard anyone make and I think is really important and profound. The Constitution requires a supermajority of the Senators — two thirds — in order to remove the President and that expresses the principle that removing the President  is something extraordinary. That principle should be applied to the polls. We should look for much more than a mere majority in support of removing the President. Even if the "narrow majority" this poll found were in favor of removal, it should not be enough. To justify the extraordinary action of removal, the polls should show that more than 66% of Americans want it.

AND: What were the polls on Nixon? At the point when Nixon resigned, Pew Research showed that 57% of American adults supported removal. The trend in the poll numbers was sharply upward, up from 37% in less than 6 months.

122 comments:

Freeman Hunt said...

"into one of Trump's political rivals."

Which one is not important. Do not look over there!

Amadeus 48 said...

"my point is only that the USA Today should work harder on journalistic professionalism."

And I agree with you. A lot. And so should every other news organization in the US, including the news pages of the WSJ. But this horse left the barn a long time ago. I think all these places think they are practicing journalistic professionalism, which apparently precludes them from looking objectively at the stories they are "reporting".

tommyesq said...

Perhaps his auppoet grew because, after hearing the tearimony (entirely one-sided), people believe that Trump did not do those things.

tim maguire said...

Just about every journalistic outlet should work harder on journalistic professionalism.

I’m not hold my breath.

Danno said...

The journolists of today are trained leftist propagandists. All harmful facts must be given a spin and all adjectives should be derogatory. Didn't you know?

Danno said...

Ann said..."I'm just guessing, of course, but my point is only that the USA Today should work harder on journalistic professionalism. I know it may sound silly. A pipe dream. But I like to say it anyway."

And you know what they say about people that keep repeating something expecting a different answer.....

Ann Althouse said...

"And you know what they say about people that keep repeating something expecting a different answer....."

Completely irrelevant to what I am doing.

Ralph L said...

I'm afraid Trump could be badly harmed or even convicted because of public apathy. Everyone seemed to be paying attention in '98 because of sex and the long foreplay, I mean, buildup to the votes. These poll numbers are meaningless because so few people are paying any attention and even fewer are accurately informed.

Hagar said...

I do not see where Trump has abused his power, except perhaps in flying AF-1 around so much to all those rallies - and that is something that is necessary to give him to defend the presidency, things being as they are - and obstructing Congress is what he is supposed to do according to James Madison et al.

JMW Turner said...

"Journalistic professionalism". Not in our lifetime. As long as these "27 year olds who know nothing" and their left wing masters are in control, nothing will change. They have no idea what we are ranting about, and discount any criticism as partisan blather. At best, it will take a generation of financial and institutional meltdowns to force change.

Bob Boyd said...

to pressure the president of Ukraine to announce investigations into one of Trump's political rivals.

Remember when Comey finagled a way to get the completely fabricated DNC dossier into the media via the FBI and refused to announce the FBI wasn't investigating Trump?

Jamie said...

My husband reads news much more widely than I do; he goes to places like USAToday, for instance, whereas I get my news from the blogs I like. I know this is a deficiency in my character, but five decades in, I've concluded that I don't especially like being made angry all the time.

Anyway, he will frequently tell me about something he's read, either explicitly an op-ed or purportedly straight news, that says Trump's in trouble, whichever Dem of the moment is poised for massive electoral success, etc. I always ask, "Where'd you read that?" He seldom has taken note. I hold out hope that someday I'll train him to notice the source - but *my* "doing the same thing over and over while hoping for a different result" is far closer to that old definition of insanity than our host's plaintive wish that journalists would be more professional, because - in theory at least - I have some control over my husband's actions.

Jamie said...

Oh yes, that was sweet, how the "to pressure the president of Ukraine to announce investigations into one of Trump's political rivals" was reported straight, as if a fact established rather than an inference reached without recourse to the actual actor. Nice one, USAToday.

I'm guessing there's a J-school textbook entitled, "How To Make Hay and Influence People."

Meade said...

"Meade read this post and made a point that I've never heard anyone make and I think is really important and profound."

Well, I live and sleep with a law professor. And no, I don't mean Jonathan Turley.

Temujin said...

To put this in perspective, the press used the words 'narrow majority' just before the UK elections last week. As it turned out, it was an historic 'narrow majority'.

rehajm said...

The poll didn’t ask how people who want him removed want him removed. Some mat oppose impeachment but want removal by election. That wasn’t asked. It is skewing the result.

Fernandinande said...

I wonder how many people could name the law(s) which Trump is supposed to have broken.

rhhardin said...

Public opinion means what you'd think at the moment without regard to consequences.

Impeachment is just an early election and that's all.

rhhardin said...

If you go the impeachment route, it gives the US a parliamentary system. Very dfficult to reform because the leader tends to come from the swamp.

RobinGoodfellow said...

“... but my point is only that the USA Today should work harder on journalistic professionalism.”

From your keyboard to God’s ears, Ann.

rhhardin said...

Show how journalistic professionalism makes money, the business model.

Leland said...

The progressives hate Trump and want payback for the Clintons, both the impeachment and Hillary losing. And this is nothing. Wait until we are back at this in a few months. The Senate will acquit, and the House will live up to its promise to impeach Trump again. If you don't believe this; then you weren't paying attention to the UK. This is the new strategy of the progressives. It didn't work out for them in the UK, but they haven't shown the ability to learn either.

narciso said...

You get the same result because they are on the receiving end of dan jones trough

rhhardin said...

Run the impeachment like school boards run bond issues. Keep putting it on the ballot.

Crimso said...

"I wonder how many people could name the law(s) which Trump is supposed to have broken."

The "Obstruction of Congress" charge (is that, as specifically stated, even a crime?) is probably why his support has increased.

MayBee said...

What were the polls like for Scott Walker's recall?

If the Senate were to remove him, I'm guessing the polls favoring impeachment for any president thereafter, and for years after, would rise. I think it should be a spectacularly rare occurrence. This time around they risk turning it into a commonplace revenge maneuver.

Susan said...

I trust polls to deliver an accurate accounting of voter sentiment just as much as I trust the FBI to give an accurate accounting of the evidence against a defendant.

MayBee said...

The Obstruction of Justice charge is the key to impeaching any president in the future. Serve him up a bunch of subpoenas and charge him with obstruction when he/she inevitably fails to comply.

That would actually be a great debate question. "Do you promise to comply with every subpoena your administration receives, and send all employees to testify to Congress whenever they request it?"

MikeR said...

I enjoy Meade's point. It seems to add an interesting idea to what a two-third majority means. Majority rules - for the small stuff.

Bruce Hayden said...

The thing was that all Schifty’s and Wadler’s hearings really exposed was the rot of the Deep State. Instead of doing the right thing when they disagreed with the President on Ukranian policy, where he has plenary power under our Constitution, the “witnesses” brought out their policy disagreements in those hearings. But, in the end, they had a little smoke, with no substance. Those complaining the most had no first hand, and often little second hand, knowledge. Just their opinions and inferences.

But that isn’t probably what USA Today is talking about. What they are likely upset about is that Schifty’s carefully scripted Executive summaries and sound bites were ridiculous enough that they didn’t really convince anyone that Trump needed to be impeached. Instead, we are left with the House impeaching over #OrangeManBad, which is pissing off more people than it has convinced.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Hashtags which capture the nature of this farce

#unimpeachment
#wimpeachment
#we'llgethimnexttime
#itwontplayinpeoria
#somethingishappeningrightnow?

Ralph L said...

This time around they risk turning it into a commonplace revenge maneuver.

Soon to be followed by the Year of the Four Emperors, with a similar result, a new entrenched dynasty.

Hagar said...

I believe I have made that point several times in comments on this blog.
Or as one of the 19 Republican senators voting against convicting Andrew Johnson put it, it isn't worth destroying the system just to get rid of one obnoxious president.

Another issue: I don't remember Trump asking Zelensky to "dig up dirt" on Joe Biden; what he asked for help with was getting hold of that surviving server if possible - and that ties to Clinton, Inc. and the "deep state" misbehavior, not the Bidens.
A bit of attempted misdirection there.

Bruce Hayden said...

“The Senate will acquit, and the House will live up to its promise to impeach Trump again.”

I don’t think in this Congress. The House Dems are rushing to complete this Impeachment this year, because the desperately do not want this running against, and interfering with, the Presidential election which is their best actual chance at getting rid of Trump (and reopening the graft spigots that the Trump Administration is slowly closing). And the House in the next Congress is likely to be Republican. Probably was going to be with Trump’s coat tails. But the impeachment is going to inspire more of his supporters, than opponents. Which, I think is going to make their wipeout even worse.

narciso said...

You have to bait the trap with at least one misdirection, the 'torture' of poor abu zubeydah

narciso said...

Now the fact that soufans partner gaudin who once worked with zebley didnt mind goes against the narrative.

gilbar said...

So, the headline Should have (to be have been "competent",) said....

Democrat's Impeachment Efforts Increased OPPOSITION To Impeachment BY Ten Percent!!!"

daskol said...

But the Dems are using the polls to measure the potential electoral cost to them of pursuing impeachment, rather than as a measure of how well aligned their initiative with the exercise of their constitutional authority. And so is USA Today.

Ralph L said...

Most Dem Congresscritters probably have supermajorities in favor of impeachment in their districts--but not 218 of them.

rehajm said...

I'm probably the only one left who believes they may not vote, or they may invent a simulated vote and impeachment to avoid the Senate and as cover for continuing investigation and leaking to the press.

This second order deed is done talk feels 1- premature and B- like the desired leftie outcome.

daskol said...

Hey, we've only pissed off a few percentage points of people, and the base that "made" us do it to begin with has hardly shifted at all. In that respect the solid unchanging support for impeachment can be read as, well, we really had no choice, even now they're behind it.

narciso said...

Thats the poll they massaged with plenty of lotion the results are more likely even stronger against peach mint.

Howard said...

More good news, but you still need to feel righteous indignation. Keep chewing on that cold sore.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

The President can be removed by a plurality of voters- less than 50%. It just has to happen on election day.

rightguy said...

The cited poll is designed and weighted to purport maximum support for impeachment. The real number against impeachment could push 60%.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Meade makes an excellent point. There's really nothing stopping a simple majority of House members from starting up impeachment hearings whenever they want--even a bullshit type of hearing like Nadler/Schiff. They face re-election every two years, and voters can decide whether this is a good use of time for an elected body. The bar for an actual result is higher in the Senate. As far as the thinking of the founders, there was some fear of an excessively greedy or ambitious president. Hamilton may have wanted a king for life, with no re-election or impeachment, but he didn't get it. I'm sympathetic to Trump, but the folks constantly talking about bribery and foreign emoluments are speaking the language of the founders--there was real fear that American leaders could be bought off by Britain, France, or Spain. Trump should have put his assets in a blind trust.

Having said all that, it's obvious that reasonable people would expect impeachment hearings to be a fairly rare event. The House tried twice to get Andrew Johnson before they got him--a much hated man, who was blamed for the failures of Reconstruction even though that would have been very difficult for anyone. After that it was more than a hundred years until Nixon, only twenty years until Clinton, and another twenty until Trump. I don't think any smart Founder would have liked this trend. The Federalist Papers (#72 Hamilton) opposed term-limiting presidents because a youngish or ambitious president who is term-limited can make trouble for the country "like a discontented ghost." They defended a presidential veto of legislation (#73 Hamilton again) because a law should only pass if it has a lot of popular support (two-thirds of both houses to overcome a veto), and it is apparently not a bad thing if Congress passes no laws at all.

#71 again: [on "the inclinations of the people" and "the humors of the legislature"] "The latter may sometimes stand in opposition to the former, and at other times the people may be entirely neutral. In either supposition, it is certainly desirable that the Executive should be in a situation to dare to act his own opinion with vigor and decision."

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

"into one of Trump's political rivals."

It's illegal to look into Biden-Clinton corruption and international pay to play schemes.

bagoh20 said...

I have yet to see any media outlet describe the thing accurately as a charge that the witnesses and evidence in the impeachment inquiry failed to prove, because that's what happened and it explains the polls.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I am always skeptical of polls of any kind. Statistics can be so easily manipulated by the pool of people who you 'choose' to poll. Also by the people who refuse to BE polled.

We get phone poll type calls all the time. I have never given any one my opinion on the phone. Because:

1. The questions are stupid or phrased in a yes/no fashion which doesn't allow you to actually express an opinion.
2. The questions are phrased to MAKE you answer what they want you to answer.
3. They call during dinner time.
4. I just don't have the time to take 30 minutes out of my day to answer stupid questions.
5. I refuse to be manipulated.

Don't answer poll questions. Let them be surprised.....just like in 2016 when Trump was elected despite ALL the polls saying Hillary had it in the bag.

SURPRISE!!!

gilbar said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
We get phone poll type calls all the time. I have never given any one my opinion on the phone

Meanwhile, my Bleeding Heart Liberal mother (here in iowa), gets polled about once a week
And she ALWAYS responds... Every time. She feels it her duty

Chuck said...

Polling in July of 1974 showed only 46% favoring removal of Nixon. Articles of impeachment went ahead, to the Senate. Weeks later, after publication of the tapes, he resigned.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1206380889300721664

alanc709 said...

Maybe Nancy can deem President Trump to have been impeached.

narciso said...


Remember oil for food scandal?

https://www.total.com/en/ukraine

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...


“I wonder how many people could name the law(s) which Trump is supposed to have broken.”

Exactly. Which strongly suggests that 51% is way too low.

Iman said...

Schumer is crying
wants witnesses to appear
what a hypocrite

Fernandinande said...

I just downloaded the 700-whatever page impeachment nonsense and part of the "evidence" is a quote from a Trump speech to high-school kids, sourced from the Whappo where it was truncated and taken out of context.

Iman said...

"Keep chewing on that cold sore."

--- anal wart

Brian said...

Meade read this post and made a point that I've never heard anyone make and I think is really important and profound.

I made the same point a few weeks ago on these very pages but I understand how it could get lost in the noise... ;-)

Chuck:
Polling in July of 1974 showed only 46% favoring removal of Nixon. Articles of impeachment went ahead, to the Senate.

Chuck, do you think Trump is going to resign?

And I think you are wrong on your facts. Articles of impeachment were voted out of committee but were never voted on by the full house. Hence why Nixon was not one of the presidents in our history that hasn't been impeached. The Senate never got anything.

Sebastian said...

"I don't see how the USA Today has a basis"

Simplify your life: assume the MSM have no basis for x.

"USA Today should work harder on journalistic professionalism. I know it may sound silly."

It does. Sorry. Give it up. Not even OK boomer.

One of these days even Althouse will acknowledge that the so-called journalists despise her tender sensibilities.

But it will be difficult. The MSM are part of the prog bulwark, and progs guarantee abortion, so opposing the MSM in earnest indirectly threatens the one actual issue Althouse cares about. So we get another round of fisking, and more exclamations that those misguided MSMers "should" do x, and so on and so forth.

Michael K said...

But the Dems are using the polls to measure the potential electoral cost to them of pursuing impeachment,

The polls they are using are ones we don't see. They are doing private polls and I expect they look terrible. The stories that they are trying to get Amash involved are evidence. They are desperate to make this look less partisan.

We'll see the poll result Wednesday. Should be interesting. Also, remember the Durham prosecutions will come this summer, in election high season.

Iman said...

"Obstruction of Congress"... they have OTC laxatives to treat that.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

Those of us who do not respond to polls are an unknown variable and I suspect it accounts for a larger factor than most pollsters know. I don't even answer my phone unless the caller is someone familiar. So how do they figure into the data those who don't answer their phones?

Bay Area Guy said...

The Dems' bogus impeachment follows the bogus Russian Hoax investigation, the bogus Steele Dossier, the bogus FISA warrants, the bogus hooters of Stormy Daniels, the bogus Michael Avenatti run for presidency, the bogus allegations against Carter Page, the bogus .. (well, you get the drift....)

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

SUPERCUT — Media to Americans: Of course the Trump dossier is true!

jnseward said...

The two articles of impeachment:

Article I: The President asked for help investigating corruption.

Article II: The President asked the courts to decide on the validity of some Congressional subpoenas.

Big Mike said...

Frankly, I don't believe that poll.

gilbar said...

Some Gin addled idiot said...
Polling in July of 1974 showed only 46% favoring removal of Nixon. Articles of impeachment went ahead, to the Senate.


So, it's true about alcoholism causing hallucinations!
In The Real World, there Was NO impeachment of Nixon... People would know that if they sobered up

Ralph L said...

remember the Durham prosecutions will come this summer, in election high season.

Indictments, followed by years of secret negotiations and one-sided motions before trials and/or plea bargains.

TJM said...

The modern Democratic Party is a crime organisation masquerading as a political party. My late father, a lifelong Democrat, despised the Clintoons and predicted they would ruin the Party. To vote Democratic today, you must be stupid, evil, or both

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Now the corrupt Dems have added "Bribery" and "Wire fraud" back in. When did that happen?
The thing was already voted out of committee.


Internal polling tells the corrupt dems they need more BS!

GRW3 said...

Considering the amount of trouble given to people who support the President, I would not be surprised if a lot of supporters simply refuse to answer polls. Sort of like how the polls showed the race in the UK was tightening.

Fernandinande said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernandinande said...

To justify the extraordinary action of removal, the polls should show that more than 66% of Americans want it.

That sounds similar to running a criminal trial by polling people on the sidewalk.

Shouldn't impeachment/removal be justified by evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors?

Anonymous said...

"...testimony before the House Intelligence Committee that he used military aid and a coveted Oval Office meeting to pressure the president of Ukraine to announce investigations into one of Trump's political rivals."

I suspect that 45% comprises the people who take their news straight up, no questions asked from the msm.

(Assuming that only an insignificant minority of responders didn't understand the question or didn't have any idea what the poll was talking about, but answered anyway.)

Original Mike said...

"The findings underscore how durable Trump's support has been even in the face of testimony before the House Intelligence Committee that he used military aid and a coveted Oval Office meeting to pressure the president of Ukraine to announce investigations into one of Trump's political rivals."

The findings underscore unmoored from facts the Trump haters are. Clinton voters (half the electorate) started out wanting impeachment on November 9, 2016 and have been searching for a reason ever since. It doesn't matter what it is.

Ken B said...

“Well, I live and sleep with a law professor. And no, I don't mean Jonathan Turley.”

We live in hope.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

There's a hard core bunch of yellow dog Democrats in the USA. They mostly live in blue areas and read/see nothing but DNC-Media. They don't watch Fox or search out right-wing blogs. And believe everything they read/see. 45% will be voting D, no matter what or who gets nominated in 2020. The days of the USA voting against Goldwater 60-40 and then 8 years later voting 60-40 against McGovern are GONE.

rcocean said...

I'll also write this again. Its hard to do opinion polls accurately. You not only need objective wording of the question, what is your sample? is it:

1- All adults
2- ALL Likely Voters
3- Likely voters who pay attention/care about the issue

Obviously, only group 3 should be sampled.

Chuck said...

Brian said...
...

Chuck, do you think Trump is going to resign?

And I think you are wrong on your facts. Articles of impeachment were voted out of committee but were never voted on by the full house. Hence why Nixon was not one of the presidents in our history that hasn't been impeached. The Senate never got anything.


I hope that Trump resigns. Sooner the better. Then get on to debating the issues of national business without the Trump cultism and the anti-Trump pushback.

As for the Nixon impeachment, you’re right that articles of impeachment were voted out of Judiciary (only, as of July ‘74) and the full House was preparing to vote, and the Senate was taking whip counts on how voting in that body might go, when Senators Barry Goldwater and Hugh Scott (minority leader) and House Minority Leader John Rhodes all went to the White House to tell Nixon that there would certainly be enough votes in the House to impeach, and enough votes in the Senate to convict. Based on the “smoking gun” tape. One of the articles of impeachment passed out of Judiciary was Obstruction of Congress.

We need the Trump “smoking gun” tapes. We need to force out everything that Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompeo and the others have. They had been working on tax fraud allegations against Nixon. We need to expose Trump’s tax records.

rcocean said...

Further, in the divided USA, the demographics have to be sampled correctly. Ask too many Jews, and not enough baptists, too many whites and not enough blacks, too many New Yorkers and not enough Coloradans and you'll get a skewed result.

rcocean said...

The News radio had a absurd conversation about the impeachment. The CBS "expert" was complaining that the R's were "marching in lock step" and "reading from a written script" since only 1 R (now an I) has declared for Impeachment. LOL! We already know that all 47 Senate D's will vote to impeach, along with 218 House D's. Now, that's "marching in lock step".

Dave Begley said...

I think Ann's write up on Meade's point is so brilliant that I sent it to Rush Limbaugh. I hope he discusses it today.

Listen!

Rush reads Althouse, " Ann Althouse. She's a blogger. She's had one for a long time. She lives in Wisconsin."

Iman said...

With USA Today, you see the name Susan Page, you immediately place the paper at the bottom of the birdcage.

Browndog said...

Adam Schiff is going to impeach the Senate for Obstruction of Congress.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck: "We need the Trump “smoking gun” tapes. We need to force out everything that Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompeo and the others have. They had been working on tax fraud allegations against Nixon. We need to expose Trump’s tax
records."

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Chuckie hasnt just dropped the mask, he's broken it up, burned it to ashes and scattered the ashes over a hundred miles!!!

What is most amusing is that apparently LLR-lefty Chuck's handlers havent shut his Fake Conservative act down.

I suppose Soros/Hoffman/Omidyar have long known good help is hard to find so they have a greater tolerance for LLR-lefty Chuck online persona failure.

Chuck said...

You wanted high crimes? You wanted misdemeanors? You wanted felonies under the U.S. Code?

Um, okay.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/CRPT-116hrpt346.pdf

Brian said...

all went to the White House to tell Nixon that there would certainly be enough votes in the House to impeach, and enough votes in the Senate to convict

So you were wrong. Articles weren't sent to the Senate. Glad you agree. Want to make sure we're talking the same set of facts. Your superfluous details aside, here's a hint. Trump is not Nixon.

Who is whipping up votes in the Senate? Who from Congress is going to go to Trump and ask him to resign? Can you just imagine the tweets from Trump after they showed up?

He'd be laughing his ass off. He's won. Again.

You suffer from the same problem the FBI did. You assume there is damaging information there if only you can just find it.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck: "You wanted high crimes? You wanted misdemeanors? You wanted felonies under the U.S. Code?"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Stop it! You're killing me with laughter!!

Is this the part we all look at each other with barely suppressed laughter at your claims of being a lawyer?

Drago said...

Just yesterday I asserted that Left Bank of The Charles' mental midget musings had demonstrated a level of stupidity greater than our other lefties Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck.

Good news Left Bank!

After Inga's performance last night re: Carter Page and LLR-lefty Chuck's performance on this thread today, you are back on top!!

Still Left Bank, it was closer than it needed to be. Be advised.

Kevin said...

To justify the extraordinary action of removal, the polls should show that more than 66% of Americans want it.

I was yelling this at Mo Elleithee when he was blabbering on about the polls last night.

Browndog said...

Impeachment is so rare many of the major players in Congress in the last Impeachment are major players in this Impeachment in this Congress.

Dave Begley said...

Althouse community!

Please pass around Ann's and Meade's point that for impeachment to be legit and justified, way more than 50% of Americans must favor impeachment.

Spread the word.

This is a major idea that is quite significant and grounded in the Constitution.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Adam Schiff is going to impeach the Senate for Obstruction of Congress.

HEH.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck is frantically spinning for his dem buddies today because they have had a disastrous last couple of weeks on both policy and politics fronts.

LLR-lefty Chuck's beloved Comey lied so badly that LLR-lefty Chuck's beloved Dick "US troops are Gestapo" Durbin had to pretend to care about what happened to Carter Page!!!

Things are certainly looking bleak in LLR-lefty Chuck-ville today for "Mighty" Pelosi and Schiff-ty and Nads Nadler have struck out.

AND Nancy Palsi's dentures came crashing out just like Bidens!!

LOL

Drago said...

First a 2-decade democrat in the PA State Senate flips to republican and now Van Drew.

Sorry LLR-lefty Chuck. Your Team Dem lies are failing faster than your hoax FakeCon persona at Althouse!!

LOL

Hey Chuck, I'll bet you are really regretting not having played your FakeCon act a little closer to the vest in 2016 so you would be more effective in 2020, aren't you?

Tsk tsk

Missed opportunities......they must haunt you.....

gilbar said...

we all look at each other with barely suppressed laughter at your claims of being a lawyer?

in order to be a lawyer; wouldn't you have to be able to walk past a bar?

Birkel said...

The second article is now superseded by the SCOTUS' grant of certiorari in which it will, I believe, agree that the Executive Branch has rights that every president must defend as part of a constitutional republic. The "obstruction" by a co-equal branch is facially ludicrous.

The abuse of power charge depends on mind reading. And there was no direct evidence offered by Democratics who were able to:
1. Spy on Trump,
2. Lie to the courts,
3. Spy on journalists,
4. Spy on other members of Congress,
5. Lie to the American public,
6. Lie to the press,
7. And without any press scrutiny.

And still the first article of impeachment is constitutionally vacuous.

But "Chuck 2: The Fappening" with added racism, sexism, and promises of elder abuse will still play in these comments.

Fap away, racist fopdoodle. Fap away.

Birkel said...

Oh, and

8. Spy on Trump's lawyers.

Iman said...

SCOTUS refuses to overturn 9th Circuit’s striking down Boise’s ban on camping/sleeping in public spaces.

Moronic!!!!!!!!

readering said...

I think there Senators are supposed to follow the law and the evidence, not track the polls. A poll of two thirds conviction of a corrupt official other than president? it will always be two-thirds, who-he?

narciso said...

what did the parrots do to deserve that, page was the one that circulated the Jennifer fitzgerald against bush sr, after neither he nor Barbara were there to defend themselves,

Michael K said...

A poll of two thirds conviction of a corrupt official other than president? it will always be two-thirds, who-he?

The Democrats were totally poll driven by the left wing base, like you. The focus groups, like this one, are not good news for Democrats but it may be too late. We will see what happens Wednesday. I'm still not sure Nancy has the votes. Some of her caucus were home last weekend. They are pushing this tomkeep the caucus from hearing from voters. We'll see.

Michael K said...

We need the Trump “smoking gun” tapes. We need to force out everything that Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompeo and the others have.

I think Chuck is insane. It's too early to be drunk.

Dave Begley said...

Ann and Meade's point is very profound.

Everyone should shout this from the rooftops. Impeachment is an extraordinary remedy and well more than 60% of the public should support it before the Senate acts.

Limbaugh will discuss it today. A lock.

Ambrose said...

There seems to be a requirement in the media to always describe the meeting with Trump as "coveted." Funny how such an underused word becomes standard across multiple writers.

"...a coveted Oval Office meeting...."

Qwinn said...

I think it's cute that Chuck thinks "smoking gun" evidence is even possible to attain at this point.

We've watched Chuck's heroes spend the last 3 years actively trying to FRAME Trump for a whole list of crimes.

Outright frames. Fabricated evidence.

Does he really think that if some super duper awesome evidence pops up now, and Trump says it's fabricated, we have the slightest basis on which to doubt him?

It'd be different if Chuck and his heroes had shown even the slightest restraint, the least bit of ethics, anything other than an infinite capacity for deceit in their efforts to bring Trump down.

Anything that comes from you or your ilk is going to be dismissed summarily, Chuck. You poisoned your own well, and you did it while calling as much attention to yourselves as possible. There's no getting your credibility back. You destroyed it utterly. Not Trump. You.

Qwinn said...

Now Chuck might say, "But there's GOT to be some kind of evidence you'd accept from me. Something undeniable. Like video evidence catching him in the act!"

No, Chuck. You know why?

Cause we have Joe Biden on tape bragging about doing what you're trying to impeach Trump for, and you don't care.

We've seen Project Veritas produce video after video catching your ilk red-handed over and over and over, and your lot summarily dismisses them every. Single. Time. Why? Cause PV simply isn't credible!

Well, you are a thousand times less credible than James O'Keefe. You don't get to insist on better treatment or more credibility than you give him.

Why? Because fuck you. War. We didn't start it. But we will finish it. If you don't finish yourselves off first, which is actually more likely at this point.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Chuck said..."You wanted high crimes? You wanted misdemeanors? You wanted felonies under the U.S. Code?
Um, okay.
https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/CRPT-116hrpt346.pdf"


You read the Mueller report (hell, you bought a copy, IIRC). You read the impeachment report. Have you read the IG report, Chuck?

Original Mike said...

"Anything that comes from you or your ilk is going to be dismissed summarily, Chuck. You poisoned your own well, and you did it while calling as much attention to yourselves as possible. There's no getting your credibility back. You destroyed it utterly. Not Trump. You."

It's a common story, but I'll tell it again. I voted for Trump very, very reluctantly. After watching 3 years of unhinged spittle-flecked anger, deceit and, yes, crimes, I will crawl through broken glass to vote for him in 2020.

Good work, Chuck.

tcrosse said...

Just as there are plenty of reluctant Trump 2016 voters who have changed their minds about him, there must be plenty of Hillary 2016 voters who now would prefer she not be President.

hombre said...

The real tragedy is that fools like Chuck apparently comprise nearly half the population. These people are unable or unwilling to acknowledge the corruption and denial of due process of law giving rise to the charges against Trump. Unbelievably, they are apparently untroubled by the obvious, well documented grifting and criminal behavior of the Bidens, not to mention the Clintons.

Of course, the outright dishonesty of our intelligence community, the MSM, the Democrats and the Never-Trumpers is also the Orange Man’s fault. After all, he is uncouth, says mean things about the leftmedia and objects to the FBI and other Deep Staters trying to frame him. Who can blame them? /Sarc.

Unfortunately, these amoral numbskulls are nearing critical mass. The time to redeem the nation may have passed.

Yancey Ward said...

If USAT can only get 45% for and 51% against the impeachment, that probably means that the true number is more like 40-60 or worse. There is only so much massaging of a poll you can do without giving the game away, and I imagine that result was massaged as much as could be done.

bagoh20 said...

50% of Americans can't tell the difference between an Obama policy and Trump one, but they think the bad ones are all Trump.

Rabel said...

"The Constitution requires a supermajority of the Senators — two thirds — in order to remove the President and that expresses the principle that removing the President is something extraordinary."

On the other hand, a normal trial would require a unanimous jury for a conviction. The Constitution makes it easier to convict a President than an ordinary citizen.

JaimeRoberto said...

Another issue: I don't remember Trump asking Zelensky to "dig up dirt" on Joe Biden; what he asked for help with was getting hold of that surviving server if possible - and that ties to Clinton, Inc. and the "deep state" misbehavior, not the Bidens.
A bit of attempted misdirection there.


Another piece of misdirection is the "Ukraine not Russia" canard. I don't remember anybody pushing that. It was always Ukraine meddled too. In fact, almost every country meddles in it's own way.

Brian said...

If USAT can only get 45% for and 51% against the impeachment, that probably means that the true number is more like 40-60 or worse.

I saw a CNN poll with similar numbers today of just the battleground states. But the Margin of error was +/- 6.9%!

Might as well throw a dart at a board.

Gospace said...

There is no doubt in my mind that if the internet had existed in 1974 Nixon would not have resigned. media coverage against Nixon was as negative as media coverage against Trump- with no way for Nixon to directly communicate with the people. But then - even if today's internet existed, it does pose the question would Nixon have been as good at it as Trump, and the answer there is no - it's more than obvious that no one is as good at then Trump. Social media seems to have been made expressly for him.

No doubt in my mind that if the internet didn't exist that Hillary would be our president, and that some Republican sacrificial lamb would have valiantly run against her.

The internet changes everything when it comes to politics. Most politicians have yet to figure this out. Most media types have yet to figure this out. Trump draws HUGE crowds to his rallies. How do the people attending find out they're happening? Not through news coverage, not through newspaper, not through TV, maybe a little radio, but mostly- social media.

Democrats still haven't figured out that the Tea Party was a real grassroots thing, because it wouldn't have been if they had done. And that Trump is a result of Republicans ignoring the Taxed Enough Already movement. The masses don't like being ignored. Republicans seem to have received the message, finally, that Trump was elected to drain the swamp. They don't all like it, but they need to at least grudgingly cooperate, for they know if Trump is thrown out of office, what follows will be unpleasant.

Kirk Parker said...

"obstructing Congress is what he is supposed to do according to James Madison et al."

Madison and his buddies were all old white guys who have been dead for, like, 100 years! How could their opinions possibly be relevant to our modern situation?

Kirk Parker said...

Lloyd,

"Trump should have put his assets in a blind trust."

Completely impossible to use a BLIND trust for real estate named after the owner, for brand-name licensing fees, etc.

If you insist on this, it's just another way of saying that people actively involved in the economy have to right to run for office.

Kirk Parker said...

Have NO right...