August 2, 2017

Trump said "That White House is a real dump"... supposedly...

That's what Golf Magazine reports. The context was "[c]hatting with some members [of his Bedminster golf course] before a recent round of golf," explaining why he makes so many trips away from the White House.

It sounds like a joke, the kind of sarcasm where you just say the opposite of what's true in an exaggerated voice. Even though it's perfectly explicable as an obvious joke, a White House spokesperson denies that he said it at all.

The Washington Post covers this tempest in a tin cup with the ludicrous "Chelsea Clinton defends staff at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. after Trump reportedly calls the place ‘a real dump.'" Why does Chelsea Clinton keep popping up, opining miscellaneously and sanctimoniously?

That's also very easy to explain: 1. She tweets (and what is tweeting but throwing out little opinions, disconnectedly, one after the other?), and 2. Reporters follow her and lazily appropriate her opinionettes and inflate them into things that have the appearance of newspaper articles.

What did Chelsea Clinton have to say on the topic of whether or not the White House is a dump? Well, she said nothing about the quality of the real estate, where she lived 2 decades ago, when she was a child/teenager. She's not really in the know about that.

What does the quality of the house mean to a kid? I think they're happier if they can jump on the furniture and make a mess. For all I know she contributed to making the place a dump. But it's been 16+ years since she lived there. Who knows the extent to which George and Laura and Barack and Michelle might have fixed it up or allowed it to decline? Not Chelsea.

But I can understand her thinking that if her family and not Trump had won access to the place, they'd have acted appreciative. She would not let it slip if she thought the place fell short compared to the $10-million "luxury fortress" in "the most elegant and historical building" where she lives in Manhattan.

She has a sensitivity to the feelings of the little people who do the voting and lack any hope of moving into a true mansion. Accordingly, her tweet is not about the real estate that is the White House, it's about people:



Because home is not a house, it's people.* That's what the Trumps don't know and the Clintons do.

I feel a poem comin' on:
Home ain’t a place that gold can buy or get up in a minute;
Afore it’s home there’s got t’ be a heap o’ livin’ in it;
Within the walls there’s got t’ be some babies born, and then
Right there ye’ve got t’ bring ‘em up t’ women good, an’ men;
And gradjerly, as time goes on, ye find ye wouldn’t part
With anything they ever used—they’ve grown into yer heart:
The old high chairs, the playthings, too, the little shoes they wore
Ye hoard; an’ if ye could ye’d keep the thumbmarks on the door....

Ye’ve got t’ sing an’ dance fer years, ye’ve got t’ romp an’ play,
An’ learn t’ love the things ye have by usin’ ’em each day;
Even the roses ’round the porch must blossom year by year
Afore they ’come a part o’ ye, suggestin’ someone dear
Who used t’ love ’em long ago, an’ trained ’em jes’ t’ run
The way they do, so’s they would get the early mornin’ sun;
Ye’ve got t’ love each brick an’ stone from cellar up t’ dome:
It takes a heap o’ livin’ in a house t’ make it home.
_____________________________

* You know, the servants. The help.

120 comments:

Danno said...

Talk about someone born on third base!

Danno said...

Her mom was responsible for firing the travel office staff.

Ann Althouse said...

God, I would love to hear Hillary Clinton read that poem. I think it would be the funniest thing since "I don't feel no-ways tired."

MayBee said...

I love her thanking people who she has no interaction with at all. They are in well-paying jobs! Why do they need a pat on the head from Chelsea Clinton?

Bad Lieutenant said...

I wouldn't mind watching Chelsea thank, or try to thank, the military personnel serving at the White House, without her face breaking.

Bad Lieutenant said...

The White House probably is a dump as far as physical plant. Because of appearances, presidents have difficulty spending too much attention and money on upkeep, as it will appear selfish, so they may pick an individual point and address it, but maintenance on things like painting, cracked switch plates, cracks in the sidewalk, is probably deferred as far as possible. And to be fair, a leaky roof or drafty windows probably don't affect your strategic planning much.

At a Trump property anything you see is attended to as soon as possible, because that's their core competency.

Rob said...

Miss Chelsea, she always be good to her staff. After all, when she was only 31, she already had someone she called her chief of staff. Most of us don't have a chief of staff till we're in our mid thirties. God bless you, Miss Chelsea. You looking out for us po' folk.

roadgeek said...

This is good stuff. Ann has hit it out of the park this morning. Thank you for the laugh.

MisterBuddwing said...

Bette Davis!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3zShjyaTr8

Elizabeth Taylor!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWoAOohbr5M&t=59s

Ann Althouse said...

Michael Bloomberg — who is much richer than Trump — didn't live in Gracie Mansion when he was mayor.

"Since taking office in 2002, Mr. Bloomberg has lived in his elegant Beaux-Arts town house on East 79th Street, one of several homes he owns around the world, rather than move into Gracie Mansion. He is the first mayor not to have lived there since it became the mayor’s official residence, in 1942."

And he pompously announced that no mayor should live in Gracie Mansion: "To take one of the great houses in this city away from the public I just think is wrong."

Ann Althouse said...

I wonder if Chelsea thanked the interns who served at the White House.

Curious George said...

"Ann Althouse said...
I wonder if Chelsea thanked the interns who served at the White House."

Just the ones that kept their mouths shut.

traditionalguy said...

The Help were very busy following Bill and Monica around and mopping up the Presidential spluge spots that missed her blue dress and thongs. But Monica sometimes would help make the clean up easier by servicing him under the Lincoln Desk while he was conducting foreign policy on the phone.

In other rooms, Hillary had her entourage of submissive Lesbians keeping her satisfied.

Robert Cook said...

Given the tacky, baroque, overdone, horrible decor in Trump's own apartment at Trump Tower--"A poor person's idea of a rich person," as Fran Lebowitz said about Trump--perhaps the relative plainness of the White House does strike Trump as dumpy.

Rob @ 6:40am: I'm way past my mid thirties, and I still don't have my chief of staff. Heck, I don't even have a staff!

Ralph L said...

Laws, I hate writing in dialect.

Ralph L said...

I knew someone would say Trump didn't see enough gilding and whale-scrotum covered barstools.
Heck, I don't even have a staff!
You had the op?

Fabi said...

Whale foreskins, Ralph.

Tommy Duncan said...

Chelsea is building up a reserve of gravitas for a 2024 presidential run, just in case Kamala Harris fails in 2020.

Bless her little heart!

Curious George said...

Chelsea's father never lived in the White House.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Robert, the decor is not horrible, it's just not what you're used to. Coming from Ohio or wherever it is, you probably regard a roof as optional and a floor as effete. They simply haven't bought into Swedish Modern like all the bien pensants, they go their own way, and it serves:

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/04/08/magazine/the-expanding-empire-of-donald-trump.html?pagewanted=all

(Typos=sic. Tsk, NYT, tsk!))

"Mrs. Trump spent a week at a quarry in Italy matching slabs of the distinctive, peach rose and pink Breccia Perniche marble for the atrium of Trump Tower. Some people criticize 'that pink marble' and Mrs. Trump responds: 'And what do they prefer? The cheap white travertine that is used in baks and all the other buildings? It is too cold, too common. Donald and I are more daring than that.' When people criticize the Trump Tower doormen's uniforms, she ansers: 'They are fun. Why must everyone be so serious?'"

I guess your caveman avatar likes white travertine.


AReasonableMan said...

Trump says something stupid and its .... Chelsea's fault?

It is getting a bit desperate here in Denial and Deflection Land. Would it really hurt to have an honest discussion of Trump's flaws and failures to date.

Curious George said...

"AReasonableMan said...
Trump says something stupid and its .... Chelsea's fault?"

Which comment blamed Trump's comment on Chelsea?

Ralph L said...

Fabi, for decades I thought it was whale scrotum. Another illusion of youth bites the dust.
I don't want to meet the piranha that circumcised them.

Ann Althouse said...

The typos in that old NYT article are a result of scanning paper copy into the computer. You'll see them all the time in old stuff. It wasn't in the original.

Anyway, that's a great quote about the cold travertine, but it should be noted: that's not Melania. That's Ivana.

iowan2 said...

Got caught watching the TODAY show just now. This was part of the Jr. High School girls gossip session. Trumps supposed comments, none of which can be verified and of course context absent by design. The media has gone insane trying to fill time with anti President Trump content. Not that all the investigations happening have caused the reporters to go silent, because the actual confirmed evidence all points the to the Obama administration using the spy agencies to spy on political rivals. I find myself laughing out loud watching, listening and reading, self identified, serious accomplished adults wallow about engaging is such juvenile behavior. (That's the paid professional, the commentators here get worse)

Fabi said...

"Would it really hurt to have an honest discussion of Trump's flaws and failures to date."

For $1,000.00 I know of someone who can hook you up.

sinz52 said...

I wonder what the White House would look like if Trump could have it renovated to his heart's content.

Maybe something like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/6b/61/356b618195a20d0e6f734845afa87348--trump-tower-the-trump.jpg

My name goes here. said...

"Would it really hurt to have an honest discussion of Trump's flaws and failures to date."

Sure, he is sloppy, hyperbolic, prone to speaking before thinking, and seems not to give a damn that we all get to see how the political sausage is made. He is still better than Hillary on every major policy issue from Immigration to Korea (do you really think Hill would berate the Chinese and former administrations in twitter?). He is rolling back regulations, I read 16 are rolled back for every new *one* that is added. He has appointed more federal judges at this point in his presidency than Obama had at this point.

Look the left decided on about 09 NOV 2016 that Trump fell on a continuum of:
Somewhere Worse Than Actual Satan to Literally Hitler

And I hate to break it to you ARM, but when the left stakes out that as their starting position, they have ceded *all* discussions about policies and effectiveness.

I would love it if the opposition (in all forms, commies, traditional lefties, and establishment GOPers) would actually argue against the Trump policies that they find unacceptable. The problem with those in the opposition is that as soon as they do that they will be forced to find positions that they >gasp< agree with Trump on.

These are some fun times.

David Begley said...

Leaks like this - along with the Mueller - investigation will be a constant for all of Trump's presidency.

Bill R said...

Sharper than a serpent's tooth, Professor Althouse. I'm glad you're not after ME.

GRW3 said...

He's a billionaire. The Whitehouse might be below his standards. It is, after all, an office building with a residential floor.

John said...

Chubble Clinton for president!

That's what her frequent appearance in the news is about.

John Henry

Tommy Duncan said...

ARM said:

Would it really hurt to have an honest discussion of Trump's flaws and failures to date.

Only the flaws and failures? No discussion of successes and achievements?

You're really an editor for the WaPo, aren't you?

AReasonableMan said...

My name goes here. said...
Look the left decided on


More deflection. Trump is not the left and his flaws and failures are not due in any way to the left.

Why does Althouse constantly deflect away from a focus on Trump, who clearly loves to be the focus of attention, to anything and anyone other than Trump? Clearly, in Althouse's mind, Trump is indefensible, so she avoids the topic completely.

David said...

Her mother was notorious for treating "the help" like crap.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"no ways tarred" was actually racist

exhelodrvr1 said...

ARM,
"his flaws and failures are not due in any way to the left"

So a president's failures are never at least partially due to the opposition? Wow!! You just opened my eyes to another whole set of lies by Obama!!

Kate said...

Even *Golf Magazine* is Fake News? How the mighty have fallen.

Roger Sweeny said...

Why does Althouse constantly deflect away from a focus on Trump, who clearly loves to be the focus of attention, to anything and anyone other than Trump?

Because the media is already doing the former but is falling down on the latter.

Robert Cook said...

"Robert, the decor is not horrible, it's just not what you're used to."

No...it's horrible.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Fuck off Chelsea - you money grubber. Your mother was an ass towards the staff.

Go persist up a tree.

AllenS said...

Hillary's "no ways tarred", is cultural appropriation of the worst kind.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

The persistent grrl who used Clinton Foundation Money (charity!) for her very expensive wedding speaks!

They persisted.

When will the Clintons go away and leave us the hell alone?

Gretchen said...

Bill didn't seem overly concerned about the amount of cleaning of bodily fluids that the staff had to undertake during his term.

My name goes here. said...

"More deflection. Trump is not the left and his flaws and failures are not due in any way to the left."

OMG you are daft. First off, the opposition ALWAYS highlight and makes hay out of the failures of the president. Second off, the opposition tries really really hard to give the president failures. So you are, by definition, wrong.

But even if every flaw and failure were the fault of Trump you would still be wrong because the left DOES get to decide what to talk about. And they have decided for the first six months of the Administration that their talking points are:
* Trump is worse than Satan
* Trump might be on a good day only as bad at Hitler
* A completely fake Russian dossier
* Trump hates puppies
* OMG Russia!
* Trump said mean things to a reporter
* Trump does not like reporters
* Anonymous leaks

Then there is no oxygen left for ANYONE to talk about Trump's effectiveness, or his policies, or his flaws. Your complaint is really about the left not being a serious opposition but instead being a ranging hysteric.

IgnatzEsq said...

A house is not a home.

Ray said...

Keeping the Clinton brand alive... why Chelsea tweets.

AReasonableMan said...

There is nothing clever or smart about Althouse punching down on Chelsea Clinton, the perennial punching bag of the frustrated right. It is dumb and sad. A meaningless exercise in deflection.

AReasonableMan said...

My name goes here. said...
First off, the opposition ALWAYS highlight and makes hay out of the failures of the president. Second off, the opposition tries really really hard to give the president failures.


Pathetic arguments. Trump clearly has a remarkable set of intrinsic character flaws that could easily fill the blog of someone interested in personalities rather than policy. Yet Althouse refuses to address the elephant in the room.

Birkel said...

Complaining about what the hostess does it doesn't do is not a successful strategy.

Maybe the complainers should start their own blogs since these topics are so important and under-covered elsewhere. You could be an internet sensation overnight.

#Duplicative

tcrosse said...

There is nothing clever or smart about Althouse punching down on Chelsea Clinton

Curious that you think criticism of Chelsea Clinton is punching down. You must have a very low opinion of her.

Unknown said...

ARM on the other hand is offended if anyone criticizes Obama at all, instead of singing hymns of praise.

Racist and perhaps sexist and homophobic to utter any criticism of the LightWorker; the Healer of Oceans, the Mighty Pants Crease, The greatest president, nay, human to ever live! Barack Obama, PBUH.

Right ARM? That's what we heard for the last 8 years: no one could possibly even think anything other than hosannas to Obama or you were utterly despicable.

--Vance

AReasonableMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
My name goes here. said...

"Trump clearly has a remarkable set of intrinsic character flaws that could easily fill the blog of someone interested in personalities rather than policy. Yet Althouse refuses to address the elephant in the room."

Then, ARM, I encourage you to create that blog.

AReasonableMan said...

Birkel said...
Complaining about what the hostess does it doesn't do is not a successful strategy.

First you would have to define a goal, which in this case would be to make this blog less tedious and repetitious than it has become. I have read more balanced commentary on Breitbart and r/the_Donald.

CStanley said...

I didn't read or watch the Scott Adams clip that was posted here recently but saw the headline and I think I caught the gist of it. What crossed my mind was that liberals don't seem to need to "do that thing with their mouth" because you can read the sneer of superiority between the lines, as in this tweet from Chelsea.

Lucien said...

ARM, you have our thanks for persisting in reading this tedious and repitious (?) blog. Keep hanging in there big guy.

AReasonableMan said...

Is it genuinely entertaining for you guys to witness the same tired and hackneyed strategy wheeled out each day on this blog? Don't you ever get the feeling that Althouse is just mailing it in, waiting until it will be acceptable to dump the Donald and move onto something less emotionally fraught for her commenters?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althosue said...The Washington Post covers this tempest in a tin cup with the ludicrous "Chelsea Clinton defends staff at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. after Trump reportedly calls the place ‘a real dump.'" Why does Chelsea Clinton keep popping up, opining miscellaneously and sanctimoniously?

In fairness to Chels, when she was in the White House the cleaning staff had one hell of a tough job--imagine being tasked to keep the offices in the West Wing clean when we all know the President's spraying his bodily fluids around (in classic splooge stooge fashion)! I doubt using young White House interns as human humidors is entirely stain-free, either.
So the Clintons as a clan probably have a deeper appreciation for cleaning staff than most of us do, just from experience.

Bruce Hayden said...

The absurdity here is that the Clinton's in general, and her mother, Crooked Hillary, were horrid to the WH staff when they lived there. Hillary famously made it a firing offense for staff there to make eye contact with her, as she walked by. Instead, they were directed to stand by the wall and look down.

The funny thing is that Republican Presidential families tend to treat the WH staff ugh better than Dem ones with the Clinton's very likely the worst of the lot. There was that famous interaction between the Carter and Reagan First Ladies when Rosalynn Carter was surprised that Nancy Reagan knew WH staff names almost immediately, when she didn't know them after 4 years. Supposedly though, the best was GW Bush, who not only knew everyone by first name, but also knew about their families, and would ask about them. And apparently reinstated throwing staff Christmas parties, which had been discontinued by Chelsea's parents.

Trump being horrid to the WH staff is just out of character for him. I just remember the thank-you speech he gave after the Republican Convention, where he thanked all the "little people" who are it possible. Calling out the various LEO organizations the carpenters etc, and a bunch of people by name. Likely not at the GW Bush level, but very likely far far better to the staff than if Crooked Hillary had gotten to move back into the WH.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I don't know what kind of condition the physical plant is in now, but during Truman's presidency they had to literally hollow the place out and rebuild it.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=swNcqn3X&id=D9A7F007472A92D5982CF5E0B581832530DEA79B&thid=OIP.swNcqn3Xyx-WYnJ3HY60hgEsDb&q=truman+white+house+renovation&simid=608004578631615828&selectedIndex=17&qpvt=truman+white+house+renovation&ajaxhist=0

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Instead, they were directed to stand by the wall and look down.

I'm no fan of Hillary, but even I have a hard time believing that. I'm not disputing it. I'm just saying that if it is true then she is a nut. That is something only a nut would do. And anyone that did that should probably not go into politics. And should get professional help. And stay on their meds.

Darrell said...

Narrative: Chelsea Tweets = Good; Trump Tweets = Bad.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

The White House may be a dump. If I recall correctly it was gutted and rebuilt during the Truman administration because it was close to being condemned. I would suspect there's only been superficial maintenance done since then. No one wants to close it down long enough to do the work and you can imagine what a political football funding a restoration would become.

Darrell said...

Chelsea should be in prison now for reading/handling/printing classified messages without a security clearance, as her mother told the FBI. Comey didn't do law enforcement.

Chuck said...

It is generally a worthwhile exercise, to ask, "If this story featured a Democrat, would the national mainstream press be covering it differently?" And generally, as many of us here know, the answer is "Hell yes."

Now, I must ask; "If Barack Obama had called the White House a 'dump,' what would Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, AND DONALD TRUMP have said about it?"

Chuck said...

I hope that this story isn't over. I hope that someone pushes, on the notion that White House communications denied that Trump said it at all. If Trump didn't say it, I'd like to know. If Trump said it, and the White House is lying about its denial, I want to know that too.

It would be two big lies from the White House exposed in a single day. The other one being the obfuscation about how Trump really did work over the press statement from Don Jr. to the New York Times. And Jay Sekulow's now-blatant lie about Trump's purported non-involvement.

Ralph L said...

Chuck, I think all of them but Hannity would have realized Obama was being as ironic as Trump is.

Ralph L said...

I would suspect there's only been superficial maintenance done since then
They installed the descending Oval Office to shelter Reagan from nukes.

Margaret's piano's leg poked through the floor. Bess's piano legs were seen all over the house. Not even Harry could get her into long skirts.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Well that's it then. Surely this scandal will be the one to end the Trump presidency.

readering said...

Haven't been to the White House. I stayed at a Trump Casino in the eighties. It was nice (but then run by Holiday Inns). Maybe the White House needs a Trump Grill and a baccarat room.

D.E. Cloutier said...

My last visit to the White House occurred in the summer of 2000. Bill Clinton was president.

During the visit, I told a female friend with me: "This place is a dump."

She agreed.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

If Trump offered to fix up the White House out of his own funds that would be a PR coup.

Darrell said...

Chuck wants to know.

Birkel said...

Chuck:
...national mainstream press... ... ...Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, AND DONALD TRUMP...

Idiosyncratic definitions of words and phrases make conversation impossible.

Gordon said...

I took a tour in the 90s. It was in the details like the very old, single-glazed, too-many-coats-of-paint windows. To Trumps eye, it probably is a dump. Clean, well-maintained, but badly in need of a serious refresh.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Anyway, that's a great quote about the cold travertine, but it should be noted: that's not Melania. That's Ivana.

Thank you, but either way, it is certainly Donald.

...


No...it's horrible.

No...you're a peasant who cannot appreciate beauty. As shown by your R. Crumb fixation, as well as your own work.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer said...
If Trump offered to fix up the White House out of his own funds that would be a PR coup.
8/2/17, 12:12 PM


I dont quite recall, but basically that's why Bloomberg didn't live at Gracie Mansion, so that it could get a "gut reno" during his term of office. Did he pay, I can't recall.

That would be a good idea for Trump, but I suspect it's hard to operate the Presidency out of backup quarters especially in this day and age; that said, if possible, it would be something. But you see how well it was received for him to operate out of Trump Tower.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Hey Chuck,

Tell us the one about Barron Trump again!

Chuck said...

@Bad Lieutenant

"The Daily Banter" thinks that it's a bad idea, to talk about Barron Trump. It's an autism thing. You and the other Althousians can read all about it here:

https://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/barron-trump-autism/#!

tcrosse said...

If Trump offered to fix up the White House out of his own funds that would be a PR coup.

To help pay for it, he could rent out rooms, like the Lincoln bedroom. On second thought, nobody could be that venal.

Robert Cook said...

"No...you're a peasant who cannot appreciate beauty."

If I were a peasant, I would think it beautiful. It's a poor person's idea of grace and luxury. It exemplifies tacky bric-a-brac as a design esthetic. Horrible.

Chuck said...

So now I am back, and ready to grind again on the question as to whether Trump has lied about suggesting that the White House was a " real dump."

Althouse placed "supposedly" in italics in her headline, to emphasize that the Trump quote is in doubt. Alan Shipnuck and Michael Bamberger have had their professionalism called into doubt, as Hope Hicks of the White House Communications staff angrily denied it and called it a lie.

Shipnuck has a podcast, and it was posted just minutes ago. Bamberger was on with Shipnuck. These are two of the best and most respected writers in golf. They have now made it clear that Trump's "real dump" quote was made in front of eight or nine members and staff at Bedminster, and then repeated later in front of a couple more members and staff.

They are standing by their story. Hope Hicks says they are lying; they say that Trump/Hicks/the White House are lying.

I know damn well who I believe.

Here is the link to the podcast:

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/08/02/story-behind-our-trump-golf-story-and-certain-explosive-quote

Birkel said...

People I don't know, have never met and only recently became aware existed are involved in a spat over a thing said which, if true, means absolutely nothing to anybody and we must pretend to care as much as Chuck. This is the same Chuck who continuously calls out the proprietor of this blog and could start his own blog at any second.

I've looked everywhere and I just cannot find a give a damn.

Chuck said...

So Birkel you don't care, if the White House falsely denies that Trump said something that he was heard to have said, and in the process impugns the fine reputations of two respected writers?

I do.

Birkel said...

Respected? You lost me. They write about golf. You'll never convince me. Reputation? Would that require knowing anything about them?

Remind me again what the if is doing.
Remind me again why I should care if the quotes are real.
Remind me again how a game of telephone works.

Do you understand how you present to other people? Do you understand how odd you are in your extreme earnestness? Nobody cares about you. Or the things about which you care. It's true for almost all of us almost all the time.

Start a blog. If you attract an audience, you'll have proved me wrong. If you made the effort to start a blog you'd see the truth. I'll bet you stay here and post comments that people will mock.

Go twist an old lady's arm. Or mock a pre-teen child. Or tell the author of the blog you read what she should write.

Go nuts.

Birkel said...

Let's put it this way:

Would I care if the POTUS lies? It depends whether the lies that are told result in something better or worse. What is the outcome?

When Obama lied, it resulted in a cratering health insurance market in which most middle class voters are getting hammered by increased premiums and out of pocket expenses. I care about that lie. The effects are measurable.

If Trump lied about his belief about the current state of the White House interior? I cannot imagine a way that affects another living soul who doesn't WANT to be bothered. Somebody like you.

I'm an empiricist by nature. You'll never convince me by writing about the morals we may or may not share. If we share them, I'll already have the opinion. If we don't, you're a lost cause to me.

Chuck said...

Yeah, Birkel, that is always the Trumpkin response, when Trump is caught in one of his countless red-handed lies.

B-b-b-b-ut Obama! B-b-b-b-ut Hillary!

Tell it to somebody who cares. I didn't vote for any Democrat, I don't answer for them. I don't care about them.

I am here to talk about Donald Trump's lying. His mendacity, his offenses, his Administration's failings and wrongdoings. If you're interested in that, fine. If not, why don't you just ignore me?

Sounds to me like you're nearly as convinced as I am that Trump is lying about this matter. You don't care about it. I do care about it. So why don't you leave it at that?

Birkel said...

What lie? Tell me again what the 'if' in your 4:28 PM is doing.

Birkel said...

Chuck: "Sounds to me like you're nearly as convinced as I am that Trump is lying about this matter."

Have we added mind reading to old lady assault threats and small child medical diagnosis?

You claim to be an attorney and cannot argue in the alternative?

You're a fool.

The Godfather said...

In the early '90's I had a friend who had a pretty high-level staff (not political) position in the WH. One Sunday, we and our respective wives were having brunch at the Hay-Adams Hotel, across Lafayette Park from the WH, and my friend asked if we'd like a private tour. So, of course Yes! Once through security, the house was empty. The Bushes were away at Camp David. We looked in at the Oval Office, the Lincoln Bedroom, the Cabinet Room. Eventually we got down to the lower-level room where the Presidential press conferences were held. I still have a photo of me, and another of my wife, standing at the podium, in front of the Presidential Seal, ready to take the next question from Sam Donaldson.

Then there was a whirring noise above, and we rushed out to the rear of the WH to see Marine One land with George and Barbara, back from Camp David. Suddenly, there were several scores of people, maybe even a hundred, who appeared from nowhere to welcome the Bushes home.

I doubt that the WH is a "dump", but if it is we can blame the Obamas. And if it's still a dump, we can blame Trump. If Trump actually SAID it was a dump, even as a joke, he should be ashamed. It's OUR house, we the people, and he wants to be OUR President.

Birkel said...

Note, Chuck, that what you accused me of doing with respect to Obama is wrong.

I'm saying that outcomes matter. If you show me a lie of President Trump's that has had measurable negative consequences not outweighed by positive consequences, then we can have a reasoned discussion.

I'm making an argument about empirical results.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Speaking of empirical, do you, Chuck, have any thoughts or knowledge of the state of upkeep at the White House?

Michael said...

How old is Chelsea now? fifty? Jesus but she is still treated like a child instead of the rather boring adult who has yet to make her wayl

Chuck said...

Bad Lieutenant said...
Speaking of empirical, do you, Chuck, have any thoughts or knowledge of the state of upkeep at the White House?

No!

Now, I am going to give you the same choice that the Trump White House has. You can choose (1) or (2). But you have to choose.

(1) Yes, President Trump did indeed say that the White House is a "real dump." He was partly joking, because that is the kind of guy he is, and he thought it would be a private joke. And while the White House is a grand and historic place, as a residence, it leaves quite something to be desired, especially next to Trump Tower, or Mar A Lago, or Menie House or the Trump National Bedminster residences and clubhouse.

OR

(2) The President never said the White House is a "real dump." Alan Shipnuck and Michael Bamberger are lying, in having claimed/written that Trump ever said such a thing.

That of course is the sociopathy of this White House. Led by the Sociopath in Chief.

This is on Hope Hicks, and Trump. Somebody is lying. I want to know who is the liar. I think I know. If Trump had wanted to take the route of it having been just a private joke with more than a grain of truth, he could have done that. But now he has to live with it. Liar, or not.

By the way, both Bamberger and Shipnuck say that Hope Hicks was especially nasty in separate conversations with each of them. How very Trumpian. Not just a lie, but an aggressive, mean-spirited, angrily-delivered lie.

Birkel said...

In the same way, a jury was asked by Patrick Fitzgerald to agree that one party must be lying.

I suppose Chuck would have, based on his 6:14 PM comment above, voted for conviction.

SukieTawdry said...

Did Chelsea mention how the residence staff had to stop whatever it was doing and leave when Hillary came in? Or how they were instructed to not look directly at her when she happened by? Or how she had one of the butlers fired because he was still in contact with Barbara Bush (I believe he had helped her with her computer while she was still First Lady and she had called him about a problem)? From all reports, the White House household staff generally despised Chelsea's mother.

Jackie Kennedy thought the White House was kind of a dump, too. She did something about it.

The media keeps the dullard daughter in the spotlight because they desperately cling to the Clinton dynasty and would see it go on...and on.

Birkel said...

Notice how quickly Chuck moves from "I want to believe" to "I believe" to "I think I know" in his own head (not the typed words, except that last bit) and completely forgets the "if" I mentioned in his previous comments.

It's pathological.

SukieTawdry said...

HoodlumDoodlum said...In fairness to Chels, when she was in the White House the cleaning staff had one hell of a tough job--imagine being tasked to keep the offices in the West Wing clean when we all know the President's spraying his bodily fluids around (in classic splooge stooge fashion)! I doubt using young White House interns as human humidors is entirely stain-free, either.

In fairness to Bill, he mostly confined the "spraying of his bodily fluids" to his private Oval Office bathroom sink. Of course, there was that one little accidental emission that involved a blue dress...

Fabi said...

This obviously call for Senate testimony -- under oath! -- and perhaps the appointment of a special counsel.

Fabi said...

I've been to a reception at the White House in the last five years. I would say the public areas need a good once-over. Scuffs on the baseboards; bits of the parquet flooring were loose; a few pieces of the wood furniture were noticeably dinged. It was not impeccable.

Fabi said...

Hey ARM -- how is Althouse punching down by engaging Chelsea? She's a national, if not international, figure. Travels in the most elite social circles. Has access to extraordinary political power. Could dial the phone and be on almost any television or radio news program. Has significant wealth through marriage and the foundation. I could go on.

AReasonableMan said...

Fabi said...
Has access to extraordinary political power.


Chelsea and her views are not a subject of discussion of left wing blogs, there she is a nonentity. She has no political power. She is, however, one of the right's favorite punching bags, and they inflate her importance in order to justify their unhinged attacks.

tcrosse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tcrosse said...

Thank you ARM. I am happy to stipulate that Chelsea Clinton is a nobody.

Fabi said...

Where did I say she had political power, ARM? I said she has access to extraordinary political power. Please answer -- given my previous list -- how Althouse is punching down.

Birkel said...

Because, MEAN.
That is the answer, Fabi.

AReasonableMan said...

No, cowardly.

Fabi said...

It appears it's the only answer I'll receive, Birkel! Because reasons, too.

Fabi said...

Cowardly -- are you kidding me? Chelsea injected herself into the topic via her tweet, ARM. If Chelsea can't stand the "heat" then she she stay out of the conversation.

Now, any chance of you explaining how Althouse was punching down? That was my initial question -- one that you've studiously avoided.

The Godfather said...

Althouse v. Chelsea is like fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

AReasonableMan said...

What does Althouse beating up on Chelsea Clinton prove to anyone? It is stupid and cowardly. Take on the Donald.

Fabi said...

Punching down and beating up! You're a fine white knight, ARM -- poor, defenseless, underprivileged, powerless, unconnected Chelsea is lucky that you have her six.

AReasonableMan said...

All your whining isn't going to change the fact that it is not a terrible difficult thing to do for this audience, beat up on Chelsea. Asking a few tough questions about Trump would be a tougher act.

Birkel said...

Here is a tough question about Trump: Will Hillary Clinton be President of the United States?

So far, that difficult question has been answered correctly.

Fabi said...

Mockery is not whining, ARM. Buck up, buttercup.

Bad Lieutenant said...

But you have to choose.

make me.

AReasonableMan said...

Your pathetic attempts at 'mockery' are indistinguishable from whining. You are just to big of a loser to understand this.

Birkel said...

Why do people like "AReasonableMan" always forget to type the words "by me"?

It's a wonder, really.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Birk, I think ARM might actually have been talking about Chuck. Chuck, when a LLR like you has lost the lefties on this board, you have truly snatched the pebble from the Master's hand.