June 27, 2017

Samurai armor.

From the exhibit at the Chazen Museum:

P1130938

P1130937

You can talk about whatever you want in the comments. I'm ending the morning session of blogging before the sharpness, humor, and insight fade.

(May I just add a reminder that you can support this blog by shopping through The Althouse Amazon Portal?)

142 comments:

rhhardin said...

There was no armor in their airplanes, a big problem.

Laslo Spatula said...

Because we have discovered that all of the good stuff happens in the morning…

Laslo Films presents "Restraining Order!"

"Restraining Order!"

Tucker gets a visit from his Probation Officer.

The capriciousness of the Legal System is exposed.

One Man, caught in the Gears of The System... Because of a Woman.

I am Laslo.

Todd Galle said...

Very nicely mounted. I've worked on exhibiting clothing in the past, and it can be difficult working with either cotton or latex gloves to protect the objects. Having lacquered armour makes it a bit easier I would think, but the ties and straps would have been murder. Congrats to the museum staff. The exhibit cases also looked very nice in your earlier gallery photo, with nice lighting (another thankless museum task) and case placement.

YoungHegelian said...

I always find it interesting that suits of armor are so much smaller than you'd think they'd be.

There weren't a lot of 6'2" guys knights/samurai wandering around in days of yore, when fell the special snowflakes of yesteryear.

Hagar said...

A distinguishing feature of the communist regimes have been that they have primarily made war on their own citizens rather than foreigners.

Once written, twice... said...

Ann, I believe unfortunately for your blog, it's comments have become totally a right wing echo chamber. Of course, it has always attracted more conservatives than liberals, but now it has just become conservative group think, with only Chuck and Ingra bothering to provide alternative views.

Original Mike said...

New Zealand destroyed the US in the America's Cup, 8 races to 1. The US boat was just slower. Good on ya, mates!

Once written, twice... said...

And that leaves the comments very dull and boring.

Seeing Red said...

Drudge links to a BBC article about the Trump handshake watch, how Modi pulled him into a hug, and next up for the handshake is the SorK leader.

This is hilarious.

Todd Galle said...

YH,
I have found that the most likely clothing / armour / uniforms to survive were made for young adults of status who grew out of them fairly quickly, leaving them in very good condition. The stuff made for adults of normal size was used quite heavily. I worked on a frock coat from a Federal Civil War General who was 6'-6" tall, and had to modify our exhibit case. Most of the surviving stuff is either very small and therefore never issued because nobody could wear it. Remember that British Regiments in the 18th Century and onward (not the best quality individual) had at least 10% of their strength - the Grenadier Company - comprised of men over 6' tall. They may have been generally shorter, but not by all that much really. As a Park Ranger I worked with said, after a long day of those type of questions of each generation getting taller, replied to the last with "with what dear lady did they crucify our Christ, Popsicle sticks?" That and Washington's War Elephant are some of my fondest NPS memories.

Seeing Red said...

Damn, lost to the Kiwis?ni saw a snippet of 1 race.

Original Mike said...

@Seeing Red - Yeah, the US performance was embarrassing. At least I have a soft spot for New Zealand, so I was happy for them.

Once written, twice... said...

Though, it should be pointed out that Chuck is a particular good commenter. He usually can handle several of the conservative ones singlehanded.

Bob Ellison said...

Seeing as you mentioned a museum, let me put in a plug for the Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix, AZ. It's a stunning collection, beautifully presented, with headphones for every visitor that discuss the instruments as you approach them, and play examples. Truly global in scope. I spent the better part of two days there and don't think I quite covered it.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Once written, twice... said...
Though, it should be pointed out that Chuck is a particular good commenter. He usually can handle several of the conservative ones singlehanded.

6/27/17, 10:36 AM

Chuck assures us that he is a conservative.

I'm glad you see though him too.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Things really haven't been going your way the past week or so, have they, Once Written?

I can understand why you are disheartened. I can't say I feel terribly bad about it though.

Birkel said...

Can you imagine how absolutely awful it would be to lose so much. We should remember that even as we are in no ways tired of winning, the Left views every win for the country as a loss for Leftists.

On net a Leftist has lost a political campaign once every three days for the last eight years, across this great nation. Sympathies to Chuck, Inga and Once written. It must be very difficult to have watched Obama destroy your preferred political party.

mockturtle said...

Apropos of nothing, I heard a Democrat [don't remember her name] speaking on CSpan the other day saying, "We have to accept that Trump is our President. It happened. We just have to make sure it doesn't happen again".

Nihimon said...

"It's Japanese."

"How do you know?"

"I bought it in Japan."

Pianoman said...

Once Written said: "but now it has just become conservative group think, with only Chuck and Ingra bothering to provide alternative views."

There's also Ritmo, Harrogate, Unknown, PB, and Freder. I'm sure if I did a little sleuthing, I could come up with more.

Only one banned commenter that I'm aware of, and that's Mary Glynn.

Nothing is stopping the Left from coming over here and making a reasonable argument. If your position is stronger than the Right, then it should be easy to do. Your problem is that the Left has gone berserk since Trump won the Presidency, and it's caused the Right to score a lot of wins over the past few months. The SCOTUS smackdowns and CNN's walkback of "All Russia All The Time" are just the latest examples.

Stop pretending this is a right-wing echo chamber. There's plenty of independent thinkers here.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Pianoman said...

There's plenty of independent thinkers here.

This!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Don't forget Cook! He's by far the best liberal commentator.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Samurai cafe...

Take a number please

Curious George said...

"Pianoman said...
Once Written said: "but now it has just become conservative group think, with only Chuck and Ingra bothering to provide alternative views."

There's also Ritmo, Harrogate, Unknown, PB, and Freder. I'm sure if I did a little sleuthing, I could come up with more."

How can you forget ARM? Or R/V.

Ralph L said...

Lovin' the baby bear ears.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

There's plenty of independent thinkers here.

True. I don't know what I am. Pro union, pro universal health care, pro limited abortion, don't care about gay marriage, support the baker's and florists, soak the rich, anti illegal immigration, much smaller government, pro vouchers, anti stupid wars (including drugs) and pro free speech.

I usually just vote libertarian as an "ewww" comment on both parties.

Last time I voted for Trump. Literally made the decision in the line waiting to vote. I decided to support him because what he was saying about illegal immigration and destruction of the lower middle class had to be said.

LarsPorsena said...

BANZAI !!!

traditionalguy said...

Back and forth snipping does get boring fast. But the War of the Worlds going on cannot be beat. The huge Martian War Machines of the Media Martians are destroying everything ...but the germs of truth are starting to stop them...or is it Trump's Deplorable music playing on the Twitter melting their brains. Deep State Attacks was another movie.

And if there was no Inga, we would need to invent her. That girl fights.

Hagar said...

Sharyl Attkisson on Tucker Carlson Tonight on Fox News Channel:

"This is a confluence of factors including we have now invited pundits and political operatives into our newsroom not just as commentators and pundits but also as reporters, anchors in editorial positions. So, sometimes there's little meaningful difference now I think between the people reporting the news and the political operatives who want to advance news narratives. That's a problem.

I also think that the establishment, I'm talking Democrats, Republicans, and the media establishment have exempted themselves from the normal journalism rules and rules of political behavior because they see Donald Trump as such a big threat. They would say a Hitleresque threat. That means they don't have to follow the normal rules of journalism in this case. I think it's more of a threat to the system of favors, money, and access that has been developed through what we have known as a political establishment."

Todd Galle said...

Mr Ellison, we recently had an older couple visit our historic site while they were travelling across the country, and they couldn't stop talking about that instrument museum. I think the wife and i will have to plan a trip once the youngest leaves college! They carried that enthusiasm from Arizona to Pennsylvania. Talk about word of mouth...

David Baker said...

Well, there is the problem of the ever-present single-track mind - commenters who rarely if ever stray from partisan politics. Look, even here choosing up political sides.

Imagine if Ann threw a party what that would be like.

So, I've been posting here for years but I hardly know anybody. I also posted for an extended time under a rather controversial alias, and was never challenged. Everyone, mostly, safe in their own space.

Maybe my idea of creativity is discombobulated.

Michael K said...

It is amusing to see all the lefties who think they are alone.

Counting chuck, there are probably more lefties here than the right.

The nasty ones seem to sleep late or, as I used to comment, they work the early shift at McDonalds.

I am trying to be less sarcastic so I just usually stop reading and commenting once Ritmo appears.

I just finished Pat Buchanan's new book on Nixon and it is terrific.

Humperdink said...

In the "You can't make this stuff up category", Claire McCaskill (D-Forgetful Hypocrite) railed against AG Jeff Sessions for failing to mention he met with the Rooskie ambassador.

When asked later, McCaskill tweeted that she never met with the aforementioned ambassador: "No call or meeting w/Russian ambassador. Ever,"

Well, well, well, not only did she meet with him, she went to a black tie dinner at his residence.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/26/politics/mccaskill-russian-ambassador/index.html

Grant said...

The second photo looks like Samurai Swedish Chef.

Quaestor said...

rhhardin wrote: There was no armor in their airplanes, a big problem.

A generalization that is not true.

The Mitsubishi A6M, known to the IJN as the Type 0 Naval Fighter, did lack pilot armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, but this was not a pervasive characteristic of Japanese warplanes. When the Zero was in development the IJN insisted that the new plane must use an existing engine, the Nakajima Sakae 12 engine, which they trusted for its reliability and ease of maintenance. The Nakajima mill produced only 700kW, which put it at the low end of European and American aero-engines in terms of output. To give the Zero performance on a par with the best in the world in 1940 Mitsubishi's engineers trimmed the weight and improved the aerodynamics of their design to a remarkable degree. The decision to leave the plane unarmored was deliberate and calculated. Light weight gave the Zero high speed and unequaled combat range, and it was hoped that manoeuvrability and pilot training would more than make up for the lack of armor. In the first year of the Pacific War, their hope proved true.

It was pressure on the Japanese commerce exerted mainly by USN submarines that prevented Japanese industry from keeping pace with the massive improvements introduced and deployed by the Allies, forcing the Japanese air forces to mostly rely on pre-war fighter types. However, there were exceptions. Using long-range transport u-boats the Germans supplied Japan with the plans and tools to produce a copy of the excellent high-performance Daimler-Benz 601 engine, which Kawanishi used to power their Ki-61 "Flying Swallow" fighter-interceptor. This plane had pilot armor and self-sealing tanks. It was so unusual-looking (all other Japanese fighter used radial power plants) that the Allies decided the airplane must have been an Italian-import, hence the reporting name, Tony.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pianoman said...

Pianoman said...

"There's also Ritmo, Harrogate, Unknown, PB, and Freder. I'm sure if I did a little sleuthing, I could come up with more."

Curious George pounced: "How can you forget ARM? Or R/V."

How indeed? Add them to the list.

As for Cookie, I would say that he's not on the Left -- he's definitely one of the "independent thinkers" that I referred to. He looks like a Leftist when he's beating up on the Right, but it seems to me that he beats up on the Left just as much. Equal Opportunity Bat-Swinger.





Hagar said...

Cookie is a leftie from a hundred years ago. A historic artifact really.

exiledonmainstreet said...

" He looks like a Leftist when he's beating up on the Right, but it seems to me that he beats up on the Left just as much"

Robert Cook beats on the Left because they are not Leftist enough for his taste.

He is very far left - but also keeps his comments civil.

rehajm said...

From John Cochrane's Blog: Work and Incentives:

Twenty years ago, the more economically successful European nations, such as Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands, reorganized their welfare states to emphasize work and witnessed positive results. Others, including France, Italy, and Spain, did not, and they have struggled. In a sense, the eurozone financial crisis of the past half-decade is the legacy of southern European countries that wouldn’t fix their failing welfare systems. The U.S. needs to decide if it wants to follow the path of Germany or of Spain.

Michael K said...

"it was hoped that manoeuvrability and pilot training would more than make up for the lack of armor. "

Japanese pilot training was the real Achilles heel of their air program. They trained an elite but could not get replacements trained in time to replace losses at Coral Sea and Midway. The US training 200,000 Army pilots and the Navy stopped training by 1945 as they had had fewer losses than anticipated.

The "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot" was against raw Japanese pilots by experienced US pilots flying F6Fs. Even the Japanese knew it would be a slaughter and used the carriers as a lure to pull Halsey away from Leyte Gulf.

At war's end, the Japanese had 12,000 planes but the only pilots they had were good only for suicide missions.

tcrosse said...

No True Leftist would be any happier with a Hillary Clinton presidency (God forbid) than they are with Donald Trump's.

Hagar said...

Am I right that Obamacare assumes that hordes of formerly uninsured people would rush to register to become insured under the act, but this rush in fact has not been seen anywhere?

Why would the Republican Congress critters think their McConnell/Ryancare version will fare better?

Employers can be found and compelled to provide medical "insurance" complying with Federal statutes, but what about the unemployed and self-employed? I would think there is rather a lot of these who are in no hurry to make their existence visible to the Feds, even if they were aware that benefits were available to them through "negative income tax" provisions.

Francisco D said...

@YoungHegelian,

I visited the French Military Museum in Paris about 15 years ago. The uniforms seemed absolutely tiny, as if they were for children.

Maybe my Viking ancestors conquered most of northern Europe because they were bigger and stronger (and built better ships).

madAsHell said...

I read this in a news article:

On Friday, one of the people named in the story, Trump ally Anthony Scaramucci, disputed Frank’s reporting and said, “I did nothing wrong.”

Here we have the wikipedia entry for Scaramouche.

We have an individual named Anthony Scaramucci, and appears to be the center of the news story that CNN retracted. Furthermore, the reporters have resigned.

Trump is pulling characters out of a Dickensian novel, and inserting them into the daily newsfeed. We have truly never seen ANYTHING like this before. That magnificent bastard!!

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Why would the Republican Congress critters think their McConnell/Ryancare version will fare better?

The Democrats made a big thing out of canceling and preventing the issuing of "Bad insurance policies" that did not include all the Mandates they wanted, like maternity care for 60 year old women and men.

The CBO is biased and will not give a good score to a plan that does not have those mandates.

buwaya said...

Misc items -

- Re geopolitics - back in the Philippines I was struck by a bit of rhetoric that seemed to follow us around from province to province. From Northern Ilocos to Batangas (that's most of the Luzon western coast), in towns and beach resorts, from street vendors to waitresses to high-toned businessmen to governors, the "China Sea" as a term was right out. I don't know how many times we were corrected, by high and low, in that the proper term was "West Philippine Sea". And this is the almost universal term in the media. This happened so often that it became the running joke in our party. They really do mean it, and this crosses every sort of class and party line there. Pro or anti-Duterte, rich or poor.

- Reading one of Airey Neave's books, that I had missed - "Flames of Calais" - available on Amazon Kindle (and you can order on the Althouse Amazon portal!). Airey Neave was a great character (the first man to escape from Colditz), a prosecutor at Nuremberg) and historically important as the Tory kingmaker (he had a reputation as a "grey eminence") who promoted Maggie Thatcher to the Conservative party. Also significant as the second-most senior victim (after Mountbatten) of Irish terrorists, besides being the subject of generations of conspiracy theories. "Flames of Calais" is a treatment of the siege of Calais in 1940, where Neave was a participant, where he was wounded and captured. Great, get it.

Hagar said...

Also, one has to be literate to fill in the forms, which leads us into the subject of the current state U.S. public education.

Or pay H&R Bloch or your local Acorn representative to do it. There is a cost in more ways than one with that too.

Hagar said...

buwaya, you mean the Strait of Viet Nam?

traditionalguy said...

Many say the Key to Airpower in WWII was not in the airplane production and design. It was in the number of skilled pilots each side trained to attrition the other. The Americans trained every deplorable peasant that could pass the test. Including Tuskegee Airmen. Meanwhile the Empires of Germany and Japan limited pilot training to the Aristocracy of their societies. And we killed so many Japs off so fast in the first 8 months in 1942 that they never came back. In Germany's case it took 20+ months from late 1942 to early 1944 using the B-17s as bait to kill the Luftwaffe's pilots. From that point on the Japs could only use untrained pilots to challenge Mitchner's killer at The Mariannas.And the Wermacht had no air cover at all while the huge P-47s killed every Tiger Tank that moved. The Shermans were helpless when a Tiger came down the road, but the P-47s decided the battles with them and Patton rolled on.

Quaestor said...

A word about samurai armor. Most of these every elaborate suits we see in museums are not practical fighting armor, nor are they particularly ancient. During the Edo Period (circa 1603 to 1868) the shoguns kept the peace by forcing their rival nobles to exhaust themselves financially, thus curtailing any warlike preparations that could have displaced the Tokugawa clan from power. To maintain their prestige and their social position the premier nobility, the daimyo, had to keep a country estate and a palatial establishment inside the government precinct of Tokyo. In alternate years they had to either reside on their country estate or live in Tokyo, thus they had to migrate, as it were, once a year from the countryside to Tokyo or from Tokyo to some more or less remote destination. These "migratory" journeys were actually huge parades with marching samurai retainers, banners, floats, and fireworks, with the splendidly mounted daimyo leading the way, and wearing full armor. It was just as damaging to his prestige for a daimyo in procession to appear in "last year's armor" as it would be for a Hollywood starlet to attend the Oscars in the same gown as she wore the previous year. Consequently, a leading noble no sooner wore his armor on parade that he was commissioning a new panoply. By this and other social pressures, the Tokugawas kept their rivals in perpetual debt and thus militarily impotent.

Real fighting armor is pretty rare and much less elaborate. In the 15th century, Japanese fighting men often wore European morions and breastplates or locally produced armor made in the European style. Many of these panoplies are dented by musket balls fired by the smith himself to prove his product was protective against firearms. Take at look at this late 16th-century armor which shows clear European influence.

Hagar said...

The coastal waters of Indonesia?

traditionalguy said...

And the P-47 Thunerbolt was so effective at the close air support role, that its name continued in the A-10 Thunderbolt.

buwaya said...

Oddly enough, the 17th century Portuguese, Dutch and Spanish colonies in Asia purchased arms, mainly western style muskets, from Japan, to supply their local forces. Western-made weapons were in short supply, but apparently not a very profitable cargo. So they were obliged to seek local sources.

History is full of quirks, details that don't suit the usual story.

Quaestor said...

Typo alert: ...a leading noble no sooner wore his armor on parade than he was commissioning a new panoply.

Nonapod said...

While the whole Edo period was pretty peaceful it was a little goofy. Instead of making war much of the nobility spent an inordinate amount of time coming up with ever more elaborate art. Things like tea ceremonies got refined to almost absurd levels. Maybe that's the end point of affluenza, when you have too much money and time you gradually develop really focused and elaborate art forms.

Hagar said...

The CBO is a non-partisan agency, but not independent. It is a creature of Congress and "non-partisan" as directed by Congress.

buwaya said...

"Maybe that's the end point of affluenza, when you have too much money and time you gradually develop really focused and elaborate art forms."

This explains a great deal about modern western art and mores, eh? Whims and social fashions madly overvalued and pushed to an absurd degree. In all seriousness too.

Virtually Unknown said...

Unbelievable that the NSA is diverting traffic overseas so that they can spy on Americans. That is nothing more than an elaborate wiretap, there's no logical difference. Thanks for staying on top of this stuff, Obama!

Michael K said...

" It was in the number of skilled pilots each side trained to attrition the other. "

Yes. Alvin Kernan, who was a gunner in an SBD, came back to the US to train as a pilot but his training was cancelled in 1945 as there was no need for more pilots.

The Germans also did not rotate pilots out of combat. They flew until they died. That's why they had a few aces with 400 kills.

Virtually Unknown said...

"Restraining Order" sounds like a country song.

Michael K said...

"Whims and social fashions madly overvalued and pushed to an absurd degree. In all seriousness too."

My daughter works for a world famous artist whose work I can't stand.

Another example of this is David Hockney

His things sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Paddy O said...

"I visited the French Military Museum in Paris about 15 years ago. The uniforms seemed absolutely tiny, as if they were for children."

In many eras, soldiers were differentiated by height. For instance, in Napoleon's army, the tall soldiers became grenadiers or such (French Old Guard regiments).

And your comment about Viking heritage made me laugh, because that's the usual conception. But, I come from Viking stock on my dad's side of the family, and every family gathering I've been to, I feel like a giant, the only 6'+ person in the room for the most part, with everyone else around 5'7. Meanwhile, Scots-Irish on my mom's side (family name connected to the MacDonald clan), which is where my height comes from. I often feel short when I go to a Scottish festival.

Both sides have been in America for so long (dad's side since the mid-1600s, and my mom's side probably mid-1700s) it probably has no bearing on long-ago heritage, but it does make my genes upset the narrative a bit.

Grant said...

Re: Michael K:
"My daughter works for a world famous artist whose work I can't stand.
Another example of this is David Hockney."

Hockney has a spot of talent. Try Jeff Koons instead.

Virtually Unknown said...

Buwaya, Ever read "Nathaniel's Nutmeg" Great book about that era and the spice trade and how England snookered the Dutch out of Manhattan.

Mike said...

comments have become totally a right wing echo chamber. Of course, it has always attracted more conservatives than liberals

Absurd! First of all there's a wide variety of conservative comments posted by an assortment of people ranging from lifelong republicans with few redeeming qualities to the biting wit of Fen, who is certainly conservative. Many more between those two extremes. The more prolific righties are quite varied in their points of view.

The commenter quoted above and the pussyhatter are the worst of the worst: repetitive, trite and gerund, insulting without style, and the most unforgiveable sin on this blog, they are boring. So boring I don't believe their cartoon cut-out style represents a real thinking human behind the name. When I see a late-day thread dominated by these two it usually isn't worth even wading through their cut & paste crap to see what real people are posting. That they don't even realize we have several liberal (some might be radical even) commenters who daily contribute interesting nuggets shows how shallow their POV is.

Unknown said...

@Once written, twice ...

Agree with most of what you said but the idea of arguing with Trumpski's is an oxymoron. Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock.

A lovely piece by Frank Rich in the NY Mag yesterday (er yes Trumpski's, that is a liberal rag) about the fall of Nixon. Even after he resigned, his core base of about 20% never shifted.

As per Nixon, no matter what your argument, the Trumpski's ain't gonna buy it.

Mike said...

And independent thinkers, of course! We have those too.

Quaestor said...

Why I am not surprised that "Unknown" does not understand the word oxymoron?

tcrosse said...

As per Nixon, no matter what your argument, the Trumpski's ain't gonna buy it.

..says anonymous source.

Mike said...

Read through THIS STRING RIGHT HERE. You have people addressing the armor concept, others talking about museums, quite a diversion into Jap aircraft armament, and the ever-present meta-commentary which includes many call-outs from center-right commenters about the lefties they respect. What does Once bring to the discussion? A non-sequitur about a non-existent "echo chamber." The only echo is one of the unknown Unknowns chiming in to say, "I agree with everything Once says..."

If you hear an echo maybe it's YOU that's doing the mindless repeating!

Michael K said...

"every family gathering I've been to, I feel like a giant, the only 6'+ person in the room for the most part, "

A lot of the height thing was nutrition, especially in children.

That carried through with nobility who were often better nourished plus, of course, being big and strong to start with helped get you into the soldier nobility.

Look at Henry VIII's armor in the Tower of London. He was big before he got fat.

I am struck by the number of very tall girls I see now compared to my youth. I can't explain that unless it is sports.

Pianoman said...

Michael K: "I am trying to be less sarcastic so I just usually stop reading and commenting once Ritmo appears."

Ritmo has actually gotten a lot less rude lately. Not sure why, but I'm glad to see it. It's made his posts easier to read, because he's actually trying to make an argument rather than relying on pure sarcasm.

His latest incarnation hasn't made my KillFile yet. So there's that.

By the way, I heartily recommend KillFile for managing those commenters who have nothing useful to contribute. Mine contains Crack Emcee, Ritmo Brasiliero, Mick, and Titus. There's also Comment Snob for Firefox users, which probably does the same thing.

Hagar said...

I sort of think either Obamacare or Repubcare will fail because both are Washington constructs, and the presumed beneficiaries in flyover country will refuse to cooperate.

buwaya said...

There are fashions and there are fashions.
Some fashions are worse than others.

Japanese noblemen spending their tenants rents on artistic but uselessly archaic armor and weapons, plus all sorts of other highly-skilled craftsmanship, is not so bad. Its not like they were likely to spend the surplus on productivity-enhancing technologies anyway.

Modern fashions are quite a bit more destructive of the people. These days it is quite the thing to give little children hormones and chop off their genitals, or to encourage kids to become homosexual and cut off any chance of progeny, or to stun young people into a permanent daze with useless computer games and social media. Modern society seems to think that auto-extermination is cool.

Jim at said...

"Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock."

Please continue. It's been working so well for you at the ballot box.

Francisco D said...

Paddy,

Do you mean the Vikings were not as big as Ernest Borgnine or talked like Tony Curtis?

LOL!. On my Norwegian side, all the guys are between 5'8 and 6'0. At 5'11, I feel relatively tall. It's not much different on the Scots side.I don't think any of us could throw a caber or wield a broadsword.

Nonapod said...

From what I understand, the Scandinavian countries generally top the list for average height. Denmark, Norway, and Netherlands all apparently have average male height of around 6ft, and Germany, Sweden, and Iceland are also near the top.

Pianoman said...

"Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock."

That's really all the Left has got, isn't it?

Heard about this on the Dennis Prager show today: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/rich-noyes/2017/06/27/study-tv-news-obsessed-trump-russia-probe

Put another way, the MSM spent 2/3rd of its airtime pounding the Russia/Trump hoax, and the Climate Change hoax. Most of the latter was probably about Paris.

The Left has essentially given up on try to convince people of their views, and has resorted to name-calling, violence, and propaganda.

"Not a great plan" -- Tony Stark, The Avengers



Unknown said...

Trumpski News Network: Trump now refers to himself as "T" in his tweets.

LOL

tcrosse said...

Namecalling from anonymous source. Sad.

Hagar said...

At 187 cm. = 6'- 1 5/8" I was the exact average height of my high school graduating class, including the two girls and my best friend, who reached about to my shoulder.

exiledonmainstreet said...

" Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock."

So you're just here because it's your way of dealing with your obvious anger management issues.

Well, it's cheaper than the shrink you clearly need.

I expect that by the time Trump leaves office, you will be so batshit loopy that you won't be able to type actual words anymore, just gaemfivqfsfghfvnaprj-azi!!!!!!

exiledonmainstreet said...

" Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock."

Dumski, Now that you've stupidly admitted you are not here in good faith, there is absolutely no reason for anybody to address you like you're an actual adult with serious opinions. Thanks for saving us all a lot of time!

I will point and laugh at you from time to time though.

Lucien said...

I just finished reading "Pacific Crucible", about WW2 in the Pacific from Pearl Harbor to Midway. The descriptions of the Japanese pilot training were amazing and brutal. Truly a system designed to identify and train the best of the best to perfection. Sustainable when Japanese planes were mowing down the Chinese without getting a scratch, but less so in the face of American Wildcats and the Thatch Weave.

The Japanese were trying to train one man to be the ultimate warrior. The Americans were trying to train ten men to do a decent job, be a positive contribution on the battlefield while winning through superiority of numbers and material.

The American approach won. Ten men doing "good enough" were better than one man delivering perfection. By the end of the war, the Japanese were reduced to pushing men through training so fast they were only good for suicide missions and the Americans had so many "good enough" it wasn't worth training any more.

If Sam Adams gets the job done, you don't have to pay extra for Chimay.

traditionalguy said...

Don't mess with Mr. T. Or you will have the entire A Team to deal with.

Unknown said...

Trumpski News Network: (vi Politico) "A Trump PAC is stepping up attacks on Nevada GOP Sen. Dean Heller over his opposition to the Obamacare repeal plan. The PAC is launching a $1 million TV and radio ad campaign on Tuesday savaging Heller, the most vulnerable Republican facing re-election in 2018, for his planned ‘No’ vote. It's an offensive designed to send a loud message to those who refuse to align themselves with President Donald Trump’s legislative agenda."

Republican attacking a Republican? Nice!

Bet, Mitch McConnell and other Republican Senators are happy bunnies.

Michael K said...

I remember reading an interview with a Japanese soldier after the war. He was asked who was the best jungle fighter, American or Japanese.

His reply was, "Americans remove jungle."

The Germans (I recommend "D-Day Through German Eyes.") described it as "a rich man's war."

The American soldier was an inferior soldier to the German but had artillery and air power that trumped the German's skill.

Virtually Unknown said...

Not often that they tip their hand like that. We are dealing with a moron, apparently.

Paddy O said...

"Do you mean the Vikings were not as big as Ernest Borgnine or talked like Tony Curtis?"

Or as big as this guy.

Though, apparently at least one was close, as apparently the record for number of steps walking with 1500 pounds on your back was set 1000 years ago, until Björnsson broke it.

Nutrition is definitely and influence, as height is correlated with the amount of meat in the diet, I think. But, there's still not an explanation I've heard about why the Dutch are uniquely the tallest nowadays.

Ralph L said...

Look at Henry VIII's armor in the Tower of London. He was big before he got fat.
His grandfather, Edward IV, was nearly 6'5".
Read yesterday that Peter the Great was 6'8", which must have been freakish in undernourished Russia. But then he was co-emperor at age 10.

Quaestor said...

I expect that by the time Trump leaves office, you will be so batshit loopy that you won't be able to type actual words anymore, just gaemfivqfsfghfvnaprj-azi!!!!!!

"Unknown" already has trouble with actual words, note the illiterate use of oxymoron.

Ralph L said...

Paddy, the Dutch bones have to fight against being below sea level--they over compensate.

I assumed you were Irish Irish, but maybe some were here before the Potato matter.

Ralph L said...

The American approach won. Ten men doing "good enough" were better than one man delivering perfection.
So now we take our former enemies approach but with much superior tech (I hope).
Will the Chinese take our old way?

The US churned out thousands of 2nd rate but identical tanks. The Germans took 10 times the man hours for specialized, high quality tanks.

Michael K said...

"I assumed you were Irish Irish, but maybe some were here before the Potato matter."

My Irish ancestors came about 1805 and sailed up the St Lawrence. One family went north and another went south. The southern group ended up in upstate New York, then Illinois.

The northern group ended up in Canada until the 20th century.

We had a mini-reunion yesterday and there may have been a revolt of some sort in northern Ireland in 1798 that got the lot expelled. All my Irish ancestors are from northern Ireland.

Michael K said...

"The US churned out thousands of 2nd rate but identical tanks. "

That was a bad decision. The Soviets churned out thousands of superior tanks. The T 34.

The Sherman was inferior and the tank units in Normandy had a 600% casualty rate. Eventually we were putting infantry into tank crews to fill the ranks.

The T 26 was available for Normandy had the decision been made.

mockturtle said...

The US churned out thousands of 2nd rate but identical tanks. The Germans took 10 times the man hours for specialized, high quality tanks.

And if Rommel had had a better Commander-in-Chief the Germans might have won.

Ralph L said...

All my Irish ancestors are from northern Ireland.
Orange Men or those nasty green papists?

Hagar said...

How do you go about having a 600% casualty rate?

Ralph L said...

Mockturtle, same for Hitler.
Does that prove Godwin?

tcrosse said...

All my Irish ancestors are from northern Ireland.

All mine were Scots-Irish, some descended from Huguenots who escaped France in the 1630's. They ended up on Southern Ontario.

traditionalguy said...

In the first two months in Normandy, before Patton's taking command and breaking out, the Tank drivers in their Shermans had to playthe role of samurai suicide Tankers against the German Panzers. As a boy, I knew a man well who had played that roll, and it had nearly broken him emotionally to see so many of his friends burned alive. But he was still a very nice man. His name was John Alexander.

Unknown said...

Germany was, hands down, the best army in WWII. They had the highest quality soldiers and officers; and many of their machines were the best in the war (The MG-42 was worlds better than the Brit's machine gun, for instance).

But they got snowed under by superior American manufacturing capacity, and the endless waves of Russians. And of course the B-17 raids over Germany's industrial center.

I've often wondered: what if Rudolph Hess had succeeded and brought peace between Great Britain and Germany before Barbarossa? And thus America hadn't gotten into the war against Germany?

I'll bet Germany would have defeated Stalin. Both Hitler and Stalin were insane, but Hitler at least occasionally listened to his generals (witness Von Manstein convincing Hitler to let him withdraw across the Ukraine... and then slam the door shut on the Russians on the Dneiper).

It would have been interesting, to say the least. I think with Albert Speer actually modernizing Germany's war production without the Allied Air forces bombing it to bits; Germany could have taken the Soviets. At the very least, they could have dragged it out a few more years and bled the Soviets completely dry of war making ability. Meanwhile, the US versus Japan war would have still ended the same way; perhaps sooner with full attention from the US. And then we'd own all of Korea and Mao would likely have never gotten China. Can you imagine if the Soviets had finally gotten to Berlin in, say, 48 and the US had a massive ally in China sitting right to the south of Russia? Maybe we'd have lent Patton and the 3rd Army to Rommel and gone east from Stuttgart or something.

--Vance

Ralph L said...

The Soviets churned out thousands of superior tanks
They could do it because we sent them thousands of trucks and Lord knows what else.

The Cracker Emcee said...


"So you're just here because it's your way of dealing with your obvious anger management issues."

There's a lot of evident truth in this. Leftist stupidity goes unchallenged in so much of life. The pushback they receive here clearly enrages some and reduces others to cyber-tears at being thwarted.

Ralph L said...

Well that was creepy.
I typed in edicq and google narrowed it down from 5 to Edict of Nantes, which is what I wanted.

I got my string bean build from my partially Huguenot gg gf from the Virginia boonies.

CWJ said...

"Of course, it has always attracted more conservatives than liberals, but now it has just become conservative group think, with only Chuck and Ingra (sic) bothering to provide alternative views."

ARM, Ritmo, Freder, Harrogate, Howard, Cook, Brookzine, sunsong, and who knows else feeling very left out.

And any others now angry with me for forgetting them.

CWJ said...

Michael K,

Liked your comment. But

" (I recommend "D-Day Through German Eyes.") "

My understanding is that there was a dearth of ethnic Germans defending the beaches on D-day. Thank God. So who owned these eyes of whom you recommend.

mockturtle said...

I'm currently reading the highly recommended [by some here] Dereliction of Duty by H.R. McMaster. I'm 1/4 of the way through and so far I have learned that:
1. McNamara and Taylor kept the Joint Chiefs from communicating with Johnson.
2. McNamara and Taylor kept the Joint Chiefs from communicating with Johnson.
3. McNamara and Taylor kept the Joint Chiefs from communicating with Johnson.

Please, those of you who recommended this book, tell me if it is worthwhile reading the rest of the book. So far it looks as though he's stretching material very thin to fill a book.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"We had a mini-reunion yesterday and there may have been a revolt of some sort in northern Ireland in 1798 that got the lot expelled. All my Irish ancestors are from northern Ireland."

Yes, there was a revolt that year against the British - and it was an ecumenical one, with Irish Catholics and Protestants on the same side for once. Many of the leaders - Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett - were Protestants.

They expected help from the French, which did not arrive.

Alex said...

Ralph L said...
The Soviets churned out thousands of superior tanks
They could do it because we sent them thousands of trucks and Lord knows what else.

6/27/17, 4:17 PM


And the Soviets did most of the dying in the war. 27 million by all historical accounts. Only 400K for the US.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Mike K said...

The Germans also did not rotate pilots out of combat. They flew until they died. That's why they had a few aces with 400 kills.
6/27/17, 1:27 PM

That's right, and they took the better American pilots and rotated them back to the rear to become, guess what, pilot instructors. That's how you build an Air Force!

Blogger exiledonmainstreet said...
" Don't waste your time. Just attack, ridicule and mock."

I think Once written may ghost as Unknown, or as I like to call him, Trumpski.

Ralph L said...

McNamara and Taylor kept the Joint Chiefs from communicating with Johnson.
One of my dad's Annapolis friends wrote a memoir I read 20 years ago, so this is hazy. He was a chartholder when the JCS tried to get LBJ to try to win the war early on. He shouted them down, much to Dad's friends shock. Friend retired a Marine LTGEN, after a burp in his career when a battalion CO in VN (atrocity by lower ranks). Ollie North and Jim Webb were involved in the legal fallout, not the crime.

Ralph L said...

And the Soviets did most of the dying in the war. 27 million by all historical accounts
A statistic.

Michael K said...

" those nasty green papists?"

Papists all.

Yes, there was a revolt that year against the British - and it was an ecumenical one, with Irish Catholics and Protestants on the same side for once. Many of the leaders - Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett - were Protestants.

Thanks. I may try to look into that more. My great, great grandparents were married in a small church in Antrim, which is now a pub. A friend, a retired Royal Army Medical Corps doc, knows the area from service and said he'll go by and see what he can learn about the church.

How do you go about having a 600% casualty rate?

By losing crews six times the number you began with. A lot of tanks were salvaged and many of the tank recovery crews had to scrape and wash the previous crew out of the hull as part of the process.

So who owned these eyes of whom you recommend.

The book is actually written by the grandson but his grandfather was in the German Army and had interviewed soldiers stationed in Normandy for an issue of the Panzer Cops magazine. The grandson found some of the same men who had been interviewed by his grandfather and interviewed them again about D-Day. It's a very interesting book.



Ralph L said...

You can buy his book on Amazon through the Althouse door, ofcourse:
https://www.amazon.com/Cheers-Tears-Marines-Story-Combat/dp/1553698827

Ralph L said...

Antrim, which is now a pub.

I knew they drank, but that's excessive.

Michael K said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

And the Soviets did most of the dying in the war. 27 million by all historical accounts
A statistic.


Nothing to boast of.

Stalin had ravaged the generals corps before the war with his insane purges.

The chief generals were often rescued from purges after the invasion.

Like Rokossovsky

and Tukhachevsky who did not survive and would have been a huge asset.

Stalin nearly lost the war with his purges.

CWJ said...

Michael K,

Interesting you say, but do you believe it? The negative reviews suggest that it has all the credence of an NBC dateline story on exploding pickups. I would expect that Panzer Corps Magazine in the '50s would not be interested in nuance or be reminded that the Atlantic Wall was manned by second line troops and those impressed from occupied territories.

Paddy O said...

"I assumed you were Irish Irish, but maybe some were here before the Potato matter."

I'm tourist Irish, just enough Irish to get me longing for a homeland that never really was home for the great majority of my ancestors. I did have a grand time visiting Ireland a while back and it did seem more like home than home did at the time. Wonderful people with a great sense of humor. Bonded right away.

My mom's side is either Southwest coastal Scotland or Northeast Coastal Ireland, with the name showing up on either side of the Irish Sea. Seemingly Protestants, as everyone I've heard about on that side has been Protestant, though they got here pre-Revolutionary war at some point)

My nearest actual Irish relation is a great-great grandparents on my paternal grandmother's side who came from County Tyrone (Northern Ireland). My great-grandfather (paternal grandmother's father) was part of the Church of Christ in Colorado before moving to Los Angeles, so probably had a Protestant history rather than Catholic (but I don't know for certain).

Rusty said...


"And the Soviets did most of the dying in the war. 27 million by all historical accounts."
Which didn't have to happen, but Stalin wanted to be Hitlers friend and fell asleep at the switch. 27 million sounds heroic, but the majority died due to Stalins ineptitude.
Armed with a battle rifle last used in the war with Norway sometime in the late 1800s
Stalin won by throwing his people at the enemy. We won by throwing ford motor company at the enemy.

Ralph L said...

they got here pre-Revolutionary war at some point
Mine went to Pennsylvania for a few years before coming to piedmont NC before the Rev. Two were widows with young children, one on my paternal, other on maternal, but they were cousins-in-law. We blame all our troubles on our parent's fifth cousinage.

Michael K said...

I would expect that Panzer Corps Magazine in the '50s would not be interested in nuance or be reminded that the Atlantic Wall was manned by second line troops and those impressed from occupied territories.

No, the book was written more recently using the grandfather's interviews and he was able to find some of the soldiers who had been interviewed in 1943..

The book is the audible version and I think the second set of interviews was done in 1955.

Ralph L said...

I've always heard the Germans lost in Normandy by not forward deploying fast enough, before the beachheads were established, largely because they waited for ok from Rommel and Hitler. Defense in depth had worked for them in WW I.

Ralph L said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bad Lieutenant said...

The American soldier was an inferior soldier to the German but had artillery and air power that trumped the German's skill.
6/27/17, 3:00 PM

The hell you say! The Germans had more respect for the American fighting man than that.

Quaestor said...

CWJ wrote: I would expect that Panzer Corps Magazine in the '50s would not be interested in nuance or be reminded that the Atlantic Wall was manned by second line troops and those impressed from occupied territories.

Oversimplified, perhaps grossly.

While some of the beaches, SWORD in particular, were manned by Ostlegionen, US troops landing on OMAHA faced the well-equipped and highly capable 352nd Grenadier Division that inflicted massive casualties on the Americans before they were overwhelmed. By sheer dumb luck, the troops earmarked for UTAH managed to get around most of the 352nd on D-Day only to meet them head-on later in the battle for St. Lo.

The Ostlegion conscripts and volunteers were a mixed lot, but it is unfair and inaccurate to dismiss them as poor quality. Their main disadvantage was indicated by their designation. These were the static formations, so called because they lacked any form of organic transport other than their own feet. Without a means of orderly withdrawal, the static troops tended to panicky retreat when pressed by superior force.

D-Day plus 2 saw the arrival on the battlefield of some of the best troops ever fielded in war to oppose the Allies. Among these were the Panzer Lehr Division, the 1st SS-Panzer Division (Leibstandarte), the 12th SS-Panzer Division (Hitler Jugend), and the 6th Fallschirmjäger of the 2nd Parachute Division.

Michael K said...

"The Germans had more respect for the American fighting man than that."

I'm not putting down the American army in WWII but there were some issues that we should all be willing to discuss.

Infantry got the last selection of recruits. Everybody knows that.

In 1945 the public assumed the war was won and Marshall had a hell of a time getting more recruits from Selective Service during the Ardennes campaign. General Hershey was very independent and Congress was very reluctant to authorize more conscription,

Read Pogue's biography of Marshall. Especially volume 3

The American army had far more officers than the Germans did and the German army was run by noncoms.

Artillery and air made up for a lot of weaknesses. The British, of course were far worse and were running out of men in 1944.

CWJ said...

Michael K,

You said everything other than answer my question. Do you believe it?

southcentralpa said...

I like how the "eyes" are in shadow so you can't see if they're "slanted". (too soon?)

CWJ said...

Quaestor,

Since you brought up the 352nd division, a moments googling brought up this:

"333 Officers 50% were without combat experience
70 army officials administrators
2,164 NCOs a 30% shortfall reduced this to about 1,465
9,650 men mostly 17 year-old recruits
1,455 'Hilfswillige' Russian 'Volunteers' in non-combat support roles"

Not saying that they didn't inflict terrible casualties on the GI's. They and others indeed did. Just saying that pretending these were the "first team" doesn't help anyone. As for the units you cite that the allies met on D-DAY plus 2, exactly. D-Day plus 2. Not the beaches, and not relevant to my comment, I never claimed that the Germans didn't keep their best troops in reserve. Thank God we didn't meet the first team on the beach.

Ralph L said...

So the Germans put the cannon fodder near the beach, backed up by the good stuff. Saddam did the same in Kuwait.

Quaestor said...

I've always heard the Germans lost in Normandy by not forward deploying fast enough before the beachheads were established, largely because they waited for ok from Rommel and Hitler.

Hmmm... Again oversimplified.

The reasons Germany lost the Normandy campaign are legion, and there's no point going over them unless I get paid a substantial sum to do so. Nonetheless, I will address this question is some detail — for free.

Forward deployment of armored units could have made the difference on D-Day. However, such a deployment presupposes a host of counterfactuals. Firstly, German simply did not have the resources for an in situ defense in depth anywhere along the Atlantic coast except in a comparatively small area, which forced OKW to choose from many possible landing sights. They chose Pas de Calais for this major commitment of forces and gave the Norman coast only a token force by comparison. The reason for that decision was twofold — Pas de Calais commanded the entrance to the port of Calais, the major French anchorage facing the Channel, and an invasion target for the English since the reign of Edward I. The obviousness of Pas de Calais was reinforced by the supposed existence of FUSAG, the First United States Army Group, an entirely fictional invasion army commanded by Georgie Patton which was apparently much larger than the Allied force that landed on 6-6-1944 and aimed directly at Calais. For weeks after D-Day OKW was convinced the Normandy landings were simply a feint intended to draw forces away from Calais. Consequently, the defense in depth was held in place in anticipation of the landing of FUSAG. It was not until July that those troops were allowed to re-deploy to the Norman front.

Secondly, though American tend to think of Erwin Rommel as the German commander in Normandy, in reality, he was not. Rommel was appointed by Hitler to the post of Inspector General of the Atlantic Wall. As such he was in charge of the fortifications, the beach obstacles, the minefields, the "Rommel Asparagus" (wire and pole obstacles erected in fields and clearings to deter the landing of gliders) and the flooding of likely dropzones to counter paratroops. The actual number of troops under his direct command were relatively few, in fact, most of the personnel who reported directly to Rommel were French civilian conscript laborers, spade and pick guys drafted to pour concrete and dig holes for mines. The general nominally in charge of the troops who manned those fortifications was Karl Rudolf Gerd von Rundstedt, who disagreed profoundly with Rommel over many tactical questions, especially about the disposition of armor. However, the real commander in Normandy was Adolf Hitler, who reserved the right of direct command of Panzergruppe West, the largest tank force outside of Russia, exclusively to himself.

Pianoman said...

The current list is as follows:

Chuck, Inga, Unknown, PB, R/V, ARM, Ritmo, Freder, Harrogate, Howard, Cookie, Brookzine, and Sunsong, and of course, Once Written (who started this).

They've got enough to field a football team. With three subs.

mockturtle said...

Did we win at Normandy or did Germany lose in Russia?

Ralph L said...

Again oversimplified.

No shit. You describe the Normandy landing in one sentence.

Ralph L said...

Hitler, who reserved the right of direct command of Panzergruppe West, the largest tank force outside of Russia, exclusively to himself.
Now why could that be?

Ralph L said...

Suddenly, going through preview isn't enough to post, I had to use captcha, not that it hurt.

Michael K said...

For weeks after D-Day OKW was convinced the Normandy landings were simply a feint intended to draw forces away from Calais.

I'm not sure it was "weeks" but the rest is pretty good. The reason why the deception worked so well was Patton, who the Germans feared the most as Allied commander. They had no idea that he was being punished for slapping a coward.

Also, the British had turned every German agent sent to Britain as soon as they arrived. The Abwehr did not have a single agent in Britain. They were blind, and mostly did not realize it. I am reading a biography of "M" who commanded the MI5 during the war,

southcentralpa said...

They KNEW he was being punished for slapping a coward, but they BELIEVED it was a ruse...