June 22, 2017

"At least 17 children in eastern Syria have been paralyzed from a recently confirmed outbreak of polio, the World Health Organization said Tuesday..."

The NYT reports.
The polio virus, once thought to verge on eradication, is one of the most contagious diseases in inadequately protected areas... [There is] an urgent need to vaccinate more than 400,000 children under the age of 5 in the Deir al-Zour area...

The vaccine, a weakened form of the polio virus that triggers the immune system’s response, is secreted in the waste of vaccinated children, and over time can mutate into an infectious strain that may afflict the unvaccinated. The risks are especially high in areas where not all children have received the vaccine and where the mutated virus can spread from contaminated sewage or water.

104 comments:

Bad Lieutenant said...

No, no, no! I said hit Afghanistan, not Syria!

TomHynes said...

Iatrogenic.

gspencer said...

Sam Harris, a leftist for certain but one who has some appreciation for the truth, called Islam a mother lode of bad ideas.

He couldn't have been more correct.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/muslims-vs-polio-vaccine-my-children-are-muslim-and-we-dont-need-your-dirty-hindu-drugs

David said...

Casualties of War. And of leading from behind.

Laslo Spatula said...

Future Polio-Bombers.

I am Laslo.

Etienne said...

Yea, I don't know which is worse - Polio or Sarin. Syria is a rough town.

I remember getting my first polio shot. They nearly burned down the school with the Bunsen burner when the table collapsed and set the whole stage on fire.

It was a bitchin' fire, if you're into fire.

Then a year later they gave us the tainted sugar cubes. Kids will do anything to suck on a sugar cube, so hey, why not sneak some virus or drug in there.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

And the highest court in the EU just ruled that vaccines cause MS, without any scientific proof...liberals like hearsay..

The Court of Justice of the European Union ruled Wednesday that courts may consider vaccines to be the cause of an illness, even in the absence of scientific evidence confirming a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/21/health/vaccines-illness-european-court-bn/index.html

David Begley said...

Obama, Rice, Power, Hillary and Kerry absolutely failed in Syria.

Inga said...

As if Althouse Trumpists will care what happenes to these children, afterall they all grow up to be terrorists, right? Besides, their anti vaxxer President wouldn't want to expose these poor Syrian children to a higher incidence of autism because he believes there is a connection between vaccines and autism.

Ambrose said...

Interesting to note how widespread (but less than universal) vaccinations can lead to the further spread of the disease.

Fernandinande said...

"My children are Muslim and we don’t need your dirty Hindu drugs"

Mostly true!

Bob Ellison said...

Vaccination protects the individual, but also protects the herd.

If you vaccinate aggressively, you save children and populations.

A few dollars on that are well spent.

Inga said...

"My children are little Trumpies and we don’t need your dirty autism causing vaccines!"

khesanh0802 said...

When your intellectual system is in the dark ages so is your health care. Is the bubonic plague next? Certainly would cut down on the Muslim population. Oh, you awful man!!!

Bob Ellison said...

In the The Great Brain series of child's books, the author describes how when one kid got mumps or measles or some such disease, the mother would make the other children sleep with the sick kid, so as to get the disease and develop immunity from it thereafter.

This was frontier vaccination, back around 1890 or so, in Utah.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

It's pretty hard to see a weakened form of the polio virus being secreted in the waste of vaccinated children and mutating into an infectious strain as anything other than the wrath of God.

Unknown said...

Inga is aware that the anti-vaccination people are on the left, correct? It's Democrat moms who have bought into the whole "don't vaccinate my children!" bit, for the most part.

--Vance

Michael McClain said...

The Religion of Peace leads us, again, boldly into the 6th Century.

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga Most times I ignore your thoughtless comments but your 0917 is ignorant, childish and without any evidence at all.

Unknown said...

For instance, the leaders on the anti-vaccine side are Jenny McCarthy, who is a strident liberal.

I never figured out if she is the same Jenny McCarthy who had an aversion to wearing clothes in magazines 20 years ago or so. Maybe Laslo would know.

--Vance

Inga said...

" is aware that the anti-vaccination people are on the left, correct? It's Democrat moms who have bought into the whole "don't vaccinate my children!" bit, for the most part."

Wrong.

"What’s unique about this year's outbreak is that the CDC has finally admitted the spread of this “eliminated” disease is based on religious communities’ philosophical aversion to vaccines and reliance on divine healing through the Word of God. According to the report, 91 percent of the reported cases were in people who were unvaccinated, or didn’t know their vaccination status, and “of those who were unvaccinated, 79 percent had philosophical objections to vaccination.”

These cases began in religious communities, but eventually spread out of them and infected infants who couldn't legally be vaccinated yet. This August, epidemiologists in Texas began investigating the Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, Texas. The megachurch, which believes in faith healing, had become an open breeding ground for measles after a member of the congregation returned from Indonesia and infected 21 people in and around Newark. It was widely reported that Terri Pearsons, the church’s senior pastor, had encouraged her followers to avoid vaccinations at all costs. The church has defensively denied this claim, which contradicts Pearsons’s continued reservations about vaccines.

Once babies started getting all rashy, Pearsons reversed her position in an August 15 statement encouraging her flock to get immunized. Here, she limited her concerns to “very young children with a family history of autism,” again suggesting a belief that vaccines can turn your kids retarded. Eagle Mountain’s basic point is contradictory: you should vaccinate your kids, but they might end up like Rain Man."

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/the-religious-rights-anti-vaccine-hysteria-is-reviving-dead-diseases

Inga said...

To be accurate, the anti vaxxer nonsense is bipartisan, there are enclaves of left leaning and right leaning people who ignorantly believe vaccines cause autism.

Inga said...

"For instance, the leaders on the anti-vaccine side are Jenny McCarthy, who is a strident liberal."

Trump certainly isn't a strident liberal, is he?

khesanh0802 said...

@ Inga to help you out with some factual information a little closer to home; some commentary on the discredited vaccine research; and about Andrew Wakefield - a Brit, who was "struck off the UK medical register for his fraudulent 1998 research paper, and other proven charges of misconduct, in support of the now-discredited claim that there was a link between the administration of the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine, and the appearance of autism and bowel disease."

And just to bring you up to date on the real world under Trump "For now, the CDC continues to promote immunizations as it did under the Obama administration". Read the whole thing and you will get a better idea off Trump administration practice.

Here's Trump's tweet on vaccines "I'm not against vaccinations for your children, I'm against them in 1 massive dose.Spread them out over a period of time & autism will drop!" Maybe, maybe not on his claim, but it's worth researching which is what he has planned.

BTW what does your 0935 have to do with anything?

Fernandinande said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
It's pretty hard to see a weakened form of the polio virus being secreted in the waste of vaccinated children and mutating into an infectious strain as anything other than the wrath of God.


There's no evidence that God has ever had any knowledge of viruses, DNA/RNA or mutations; He sticks to the time-tested "pig's blood" method for the paralyzing and hell-sending.

Besides, the CIA invented polio in a practice run for AIDS.

Fernandinande said...

khesanh0802 said...
Trump: "I'm against them in 1 massive dose. Spread them out over a period of time ...


My veterinarian suggested the same thing*. So I figured I should go to one of those human-style doctors I kept hearing about on TV, even though dogs don't get autism. (*Mostly true!)

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

@Fernandinande Same thing here with our vet. Why take the risk of overdosing either an animal or a human being?

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Ironic.

"Given Trump’s interest in Russia, he might be interested to know that the first claims of an association among vaccines, mercury and child neurological health problems were raised in the early 1980s by Soviet virologist Galena Petrovna Chervonskaya and trumpeted in the Communist Party’s newspaper, Komsomolskaya Pravda. Vaccination rates fell so low following the report that Soviet soldiers returning from war in Afghanistan, where diphtheria was still common, unwittingly spawned an epidemic that swept the Soviet Union, causing the worst outbreak since World War II. Some 200,000 unvaccinated children contracted diphtheria, which killed roughly 2 to 3 percent of those infected, varying by region."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-anti-vaxxer-20170116-story.html


khesanh0802 said...

@ Inga to follow up on your disparaging remarks here's a quote from this definitive review of the anti-vaccine movement: "The conspiracy claim has been made the loudest by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in two conspiracy-mongering articles: Deadly Immunity published on Salon.com in 2005 (Kennedy 2005), and more recently Attack on Mothers (Kennedy 2007). In these articles, RFK Jr. completely misrepresents and selectively quotes the scientific evidence, dismisses inconvenient evidence as fraudulent, accuses the government, doctors, and the pharmaceutical industry of conspiring to neurologically damage America’s children, and accuses scientists who are skeptical of the mercury claims of attacking the mothers of children with autism". Last i heard the Kennedys were pretty firmly in the liberal column.

Curious George said...

"Inga said...
As if Althouse Trumpists will care what happenes to these children, afterall they all grow up to be terrorists, right?"

Of course not. Not Little Allahu and Akbar!

Inga said...

"Orthopaedic surgeon Dr Tom Price was until recently, an affiliate of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, (AAPS).

The ultra-conservative, libertarian group is opposed to mandatory vaccinations, which runs contrary to the recommendations of every major health organization.

A former member of the House of Representatives for Georgia, Dr Price was quizzed on his views on vaccination by the Senate, amid fears that he supports Mr Trump’s long espoused theory that vaccines cause autism.

Mr Trump told Fox News in 2014: “I've seen people where they have a perfectly healthy child, and they go for the vaccinations, and a month later the child is no longer healthy."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-us-health-secretary-tom-price-anti-vaxxer-vaccination-forced-experimentation-a7573196.html

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga You're really stretching now. Here are the second and third paragraphs of the article you quoted from "Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a celebrated vaccine skeptic, met with Trump on Jan. 10. Speaking to reporters outside Trump Tower in Manhattan after the meeting, Kennedy said he will chair a commission “on vaccine safety and scientific integrity” at Trump’s request, because, “we ought to be debating the science.”

(One news organization, the Guardian, later reported that the Trump team denies Kennedy will lead such a commission, but offered no explanation for why the environmentalist was summoned to meet with the president-elect.)

Inga said...

""The conspiracy claim has been made the loudest by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in two conspiracy-mongering articles: Deadly Immunity published on Salon.com in 2005 (Kennedy 2005), and more recently Attack on Mothers (Kennedy 2007). In these articles, RFK Jr. completely misrepresents and selectively quotes the scientific evidence, dismisses inconvenient evidence as fraudulent, accuses the government, doctors, and the pharmaceutical industry of conspiring to neurologically damage America’s children, and accuses scientists who are skeptical of the mercury claims of attacking the mothers of children with autism"."
-------------------------

"After meeting with President-elect Donald Trump at Trump Tower Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. told reporters that Trump has asked him to "chair a commission on vaccination safety and scientific integrity" and that he has accepted.

Both Trump and Kennedy have spread fringe theories linking vaccines to autism in children, an idea that medical experts overwhelmingly reject and have warned is endangering public health by discouraging parents from immunizing their kids."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-meets-anti-vaccine-activist-after-raising-fringe-theory-trail-n705296

sunsong said...

Syria is simply heartbreaking!

khesanh0802 said...

Just to finish my thought. Bobby-boy does not appear to have any position in the Trump administration. Kennedy's statement was a thin thread to hang that article on (note the date:1/10/17).

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga Nice selective editing. See my 1017 and 1020.

David-2 said...

This is a good reason for admitting as many Syrian refugees to live in US as possible, as soon as possible.

Oh wait.

BTW - Is Inga being even more stupid than usual in this thread or have I not been noticing her steady move towards even more trolling than usual?

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga Here's a quote from Bobby-boy in the article that you left out: "President-elect Trump has some doubts about the current vaccine policies and he has questions about it," Kennedy told the press. "He says his opinion doesn't matter ... but the science does matter, and we ought to be reading the science and we ought to be debating the science." (my emphasis)

That seems a healthy viewpoint on Trump's part. Isn't that what the "scientific method" is?

Inga said...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2015/09/20/donald-trump-spouts-dangerous-anti-vaccine-nonsense-ben-carsons-response-is-worse/#4a96286f5f11

"Trump's comments were nutty and dangerous, but Ben Carson's response was, in some ways, worse. Carson had the chance to set the record straight, and because of his medical credentials, he could have been effective. He failed.

Trump has been an anti-vaxxer for years, so his comments were not surprising. Science blogger Orac posted a 2007 Trump quote that almost exactly mirrors what he said in the debate.

What was much more surprising, and deeply disappointing, was the response of candidate Ben Carson, who until last year was a pediatric neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. (Note that although I too work at Hopkins Medicine, I've never met Dr. Carson.) Carson did point out vaccines don't cause autism, but then he made a series of false claims that come right out of the anti-vax playbook.

Carson then dug himself even deeper into the anti-vaccine camp with this claim:

"But it is true that we are probably giving way too many in too short a period of time."

This claim is right out of the anti-vaccine playbook: it was the basis of the "too many, too soon" campaign launched by Jenny McCarthy's Generation Rescue, the country's leading anti-vaccine activist group. In fact, the vaccine schedule is very safe, and misinformation like this trope leads to parents withholding vaccines from their children, which in turn can cause sickness, disability, and death."

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga And Bobby-boy still has no position in the Trump administration. Oh golly!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Celebrity idiots Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy are also fervent anti-vaxxers. And they hate Trump as much as Inga does.

This Salon article notes that anti-vaxxers are prevalent in places like Boulder and Malibu. You know what ultra-religious GOP strongholds they are:

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga seems especially pissy and out of sorts these last few days. Gee, I wonder what happened to put her in such a foul mood?

Reality in the form of Tuesday's election results hit her like a Mack truck.

LOL.

Inga said...

Olmstead is a anti vaxxer Autism quack.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/15/the-long-sordid-antivaccine-history-of-donald-trump/

"There is, however, one thing about Donald Trump that I’ve been meaning to discuss for a while now, and my perusal of the last week’s worth of antivaccine advocacy over at AoA tweaked me to finally do it. I’ll show you what I mean by quoting Olmsted’s weekly wrap:

I wonder: Why isn’t there a huge groundswell in the autism advocacy community for Donald Trump? We seemed to like him better when he was not in a position to do anything. Here we have the first leading major party candidate to say the studies are fudged, the shots are too many too soon, and the result is autism.

I’ve lived in Washington and covered politics here for three decades, and believe me, it is a big freakin’ deal that the Republican front-runner embraces our issues when we aren’t respected in virtually any other way
."

exiledonmainstreet said...

Damn that ultra conservative Trumpist Bobby Kennedy Jr!

khesanh0802 said...

So if Ben Carson is questioned the concentration of vaccines in a short period of time (he did not say he was concerned about the vaccines, themselves); aren't we lucky that he is in a position (Tump's cabinet) to encourage research into that question. Oh my God another Trumpster who may be guilty of committing science! Oh No!!!

BTW that article is garbage. Carson made no claims, he stated a hypothesis which has yet to be tested /proven or disproven. Salzburg is only stating his - rather warped - opinion of what Carson said. In this thread it earns the BS tag.

Inga said...

Trump has been an antivaxxer for quite sometime, ignorantly spreading misinformation.

"You might now be wondering what Olmsted meant by Trump “embracing our issues.” Easy. Trump is antivaccine to the core. Don’t believe me? Never heard this before? Oh, ye of little faith! Orac can back up this statement very easily. To begin, let’s take a trip down memory lane. Donald Trump might be hip, happening, and now as far as the media is concerned because of his skill for making outrageous and often offensive statements so full of burning stupid as to threaten to singe the fabric of reality, but one thing that isn’t frequently discussed is his long history of parroting antivaccine misinformation.

The first time I learned of Donald Trump’s antivaccine proclivities was way back in 2007. What was he saying back then? This:

“When I was growing up, autism wasn’t really a factor,” Trump said. “And now all of a sudden, it’s an epidemic. Everybody has their theory. My theory, and I study it because I have young children, my theory is the shots. We’ve giving these massive injections at one time, and I really think it does something to the children.”

He made the comments following a press conference at his Mar-A-Lago estate announcing a fundraising and lobbying push by Autism Speaks to get the brain disorder covered under private insurance policies.

And:

“When a little baby that weighs 20 pounds and 30 pounds gets pumped with 10 and 20 shots at one time, with one injection that’s a giant injection, I personally think that has something to do with it. Now there’s a group that agrees with that and there’s a group that doesn’t agree with that.”

Referring to his and his wife Melania’s 22-month-old son Baron, Trump continued: “What we’ve done with Baron, we’ve taken him on a very slow process. He gets one shot at a time then we wait a few months and give him another shot, the old-fashioned way. But today they pump the children with so much at a very young age. We do it on a very, very conservative level.”


So, yes, back in 2007, Trump was already misunderstanding the meaning of word “theory” as used by scientists. (Hint: It doesn’t mean “half-assed guess.”) He was also parroting the antivaccine pseudoscience that at that time I had been deconstructing for seven years and blogging about for nearly three.

It was a performance—and, let’s face it, everything Trump does in public is performance art, if you can call it that—that was brilliantly parodied at Autism News Beat as The art of the schlemiel. In any case, I’m hard pressed to come up with any time when a baby gets 10 or 20 shots at a time, and that’s even assuming that Trump was ignorantly conflating the number of diseases vaccinated against in combination vaccines with “shots.

For example, the DTaP vaccinates against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis, or three “shots,” to use Trump’s apparent parlance, and MMR vaccinates against measles, mumps, and rubella, or three more “shots.” That’s six, so far, but in only two real shots. You get the idea. Trump seems to think that each vaccine in combo vaccines is a single shot, or at least he talks as though that’s what he believes. I use the present tense, because he’s still doing it, and this 2007 interview was just the first example of which I’m aware in which he did that."

CStanley said...

In the The Great Brain series of child's books, the author describes how when one kid got mumps or measles or some such disease, the mother would make the other children sleep with the sick kid, so as to get the disease and develop immunity from it thereafter.

This was frontier vaccination, back around 1890 or so, in Utah.


Abigail Adams famously had her children inoculated with smallpox in 1776.

khesanh0802 said...

@ Inga Here's a direct quote from Trump in your referenced article: “When a little baby that weighs 20 pounds and 30 pounds gets pumped with 10 and 20 shots at one time, with one injection that’s a giant injection, I personally think that has something to do with it. Now there’s a group that agrees with that and there’s a group that doesn’t agree with that.”

Referring to his and his wife Melania’s 22-month-old son Baron, Trump continued: “What we’ve done with Baron, we’ve taken him on a very slow process. He gets one shot at a time then we wait a few months and give him another shot, the old-fashioned way. But today they pump the children with so much at a very young age. We do it on a very, very conservative level.”


That's not anti-vaccination that's exercising personal judgement on medical treatment. As I mentioned above many vets recommend spreading out puppy shots; what's wrong with doing it for kids?

Inga said...

@ Inga Here's a direct quote from Trump in your referenced article:

No kidding, it was part of my excerpt I posted. What part of this is bullshit and DOES NOT HAPPEN do you not understand? Immunizations are NOT scheduled in the way Trump claimed.

Sammy Finkelman said...

The main cause of the persistence of polio is polio vaccines. That is why it is difficult to get it eradicated. I thought they were going back to the Salk (killed virus) vaccine.

Vaccines causing the disease it was intended to vaccinate against is also true for measles.

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga More selective editing on your 1015. This from later in the article you cite: "Dr Price would not give the Senate any guarantees over funding for public vaccination programmes, but pledged to “swiftly debunk false claims to protect public health” and “make certain that factual information is conveyed to Congress and the President and the American people.”

Senator Bob Menendez asked him directly: “Do vaccines cause autism?”

Mr Price replied: “I think the science in that instance is that they don’t.”

Dr. Price said that the science is that vaccines don't cause autism. Couldn't be more clear.

exiledonmainstreet said...

:BTW that article is garbage. Carson made no claims, he stated a hypothesis which has yet to be tested /proven or disproven. Salzburg is only stating his - rather warped - opinion of what Carson said. In this thread it earns the BS tag."

Hey, Carson's medical expertise is nothing compared to Salzburg's and Inga's.

The guy is just a brain surgeon. Sure, he separated conjoined twins and was Chairman of the Department of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins but Inga knows he must be a dummy!

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga Trump is famous for his hyperbole. Look up the recommended immunization schedule. According to the CDC at 2 months a child may weigh between 9 and 13.5 pounds and the schedule calls for immunization against 8 different diseases. Surprisingly, Trump is not far off in his proportions. (13.5 lbs.is 67% of 20lbs.; 8 shots is 80% of 10 shots).

Missed the quote in your post until I read the article myself. I was surprised that you put it in. As I recall you have had several children. Did you ever exercise parental discretion in their medical care?

khesanh0802 said...

My BS tag was for the Carson article. It's still good.

Inga said...

Hey, Carson's medical expertise is nothing compared to... Inga's."

I'm not posting my comments based on my own MEDICAL knowledge. .I base my opinion on the experts' evidence based medical knowledge on the subject. Carson is not an expert in epidemiology.

khesanh0802 said...

@Sunsong 1019 Couldn't agree more. It's a real mess and only seems to get worse. Assad is a real prince to his "own people".

Inga said...

"Missed the quote in your post until I read the article myself. I was surprised that you put it in. As I recall you have had several children. Did you ever exercise parental discretion in their medical care?"

Yes I have had several children and yes indeed I do encourage parents discretion in their child's medical care. BUT Trump's assertion is complete BS and should not be taken as truth.

Seeing Red said...

OTOH, if the ChiComs provided the vaccine, would you trust it?

Seeing Red said...

Since your heart bleeds, sun song, make a donation so more can get vaccinated.

Pakistan is also a problem. India was or is very close to eradication.

khesanh0802 said...

@Inga Carson may not be an expert on epidemiology, but he is certainly a qualified MD and, as such, is certainly qualified to pose the question whether we are currently concentrating vaccination too much.

Fernandinande said...

khesanh0802 said...
@Fernandinande Same thing here with our vet. Why take the risk of overdosing either an animal or a human being?


The human doctor wouldn't give me a distemper vaccination! Said people don't get distemper. I said, well yeah, because of the vaccine! Duh!

But anyway, when I mentioned a young dog that was close to comatose after vaccines 30-some years ago, a different vet said recent vaccines are less prone to side-effects, but spacing them out probably wouldn't hurt.

khesanh0802 said...

@ Inga What assertion; the one in 2007 or the one in 2014? Most recently this seems to be Trump's position..

Ray said...

Penn and Teller has a video on vaccination.
https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

The use of a Dr vaccinating to catch Osama Bin Laden was not helpful. I think he's still in jail.

It will be wonderful when polio is eliminated, as small pox has been. My mother told me stories of wards full of iron lungs she visited with her Girl Scout group in the 50's.

Achilles said...

Inga said...
As if Althouse Trumpists will care what happenes to these children, afterall they all grow up to be terrorists, right?

We care more about them than people who supported Obama do. Leftist policy turned the place into a shit hole. I deployed to that region 4 times to try to make the place better. What did you ever do? Rhetorical.

Besides, their anti vaxxer President wouldn't want to expose these poor Syrian children to a higher incidence of autism because he believes there is a connection between vaccines and autism.

You are a purely unconscious ball of hate. I appreciate khesanh demonstrating the bad faith in your position.

Your posts on this thread have been particularly reprehensible. A decent person would recognize that and apologize to everyone they slandered and maligned.

Achilles said...

Also going to point out the venn diagram for anti-vax and anti-GMO are almost perfect overlaps.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Achilles, I recall seeing a map of Southern California which showed the anti-vaxxers are especially concentrated in neighborhoods with Whole Foods. You know, the really hard-core Trump districts.

readering said...

The polio story just a signal for all the myriad forms of misery going on in Syria. Unfortunate that relations with Russia are so poisonous that a joint solution can't be sought. Belatedly paying the price for finding solutions in the Balkans without the participation of the Russians. Not meant as a criticism of policy makers, just an observation.

Inga said...

"I recall seeing a map of Southern California which showed the anti-vaxxers are especially concentrated in neighborhoods with Whole Foods. You know, the really hard-core Trump districts."
-----------------
Blogger Inga said...

To be accurate, the anti vaxxer nonsense is bipartisan, there are enclaves of left leaning and right leaning people who ignorantly believe vaccines cause autism.

6/22/17, 9:33 AM
----------------
Who claimed it was only Trumpists that were anti vaxxers?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Meantime, when Inga goes on about Trump, the progressive EU court just made this ruling:

"It reads like a headline from The Onion. Alas, it is real: “EU court: Vaccines can be blamed for illness without scientific evidence,” writes CNN.

The EU court’s ruling was based on the case of a Frenchman who accused a hepatitis B vaccine manufacturer for causing his multiple sclerosis. (Vaccines do not cause multiple sclerosis.) The court’s decision is Kafkaesque:

“The EU's highest court said that if the development of a disease is timely to the person's receiving a vaccine, if the person was previously health [sic] with a lack of history of the disease in their family and if a significant number of disease cases are reported among people receiving a certain vaccine, this may serve as enough proof.”

Apparently, rigorous epidemiological evidence is no longer necessary to prove anything in a European courtroom. If a plaintiff can demonstrate that he received a vaccine before he contracted an illness, the EU considers that to be potentially sufficient evidence to prove causation.

In other words, if A precedes B, then the EU believes that we can safely conclude that A caused B. Post hoc ergo propter hoc – a logical fallacy taught to scientists and lawyers – apparently is now the law of the land in Europe.

It’s important to understand that, contrary to widespread American belief, Europe is not some sort of technologically advanced, 21st Century paradise. In reality, it’s an economically stagnant continent held back by a culture of complacency and uncompetitiveness. Indeed, a new study in the Oxford journal Science and Public Policy concluded that four times as many groundbreaking discoveries per capita occur in the U.S. than in Europe.

Unfortunately, what happens in Europe doesn’t stay in Europe. The EU has already exported its anti-GMO propaganda all over the planet. This latest ruling will be seized upon by anti-vaccine activists, as well."

How can this be? Inga tells us that those sophisticated Europeans are so much smarter than Trump voters!

http://www.acsh.org/news/2017/06/21/new-dark-age-eu-court-issues-insane-ruling-vaccines-11468

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga wrote: "Besides, their anti vaxxer President wouldn't want to expose these poor Syrian children to a higher incidence of autism because he believes there is a connection between vaccines and autism."

Looks like it's the progressive, leftist Euros you have to worry about.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

"You are a purely unconscious ball of hate. Your posts on this thread have been particularly reprehensible. A decent person would recognize that and apologize to everyone they slandered and maligned."

Are you for real? Your self awareness meter is malfunctioning again. Tell us again how you want to treat "Stalinists" when the US becomes a full fledged dictatorship. Let's hear how Trump will save you from the Oligarchs, especially now that he publicly admitted that he chose Oligarchs for his Cabinet. You are so far up Trump's ass that you can't find your way out.

Achilles said...

Inga said...

Who claimed it was only Trumpists that were anti vaxxers?

There are almost no Trumpist anti-vaxxers. It is not a significant movement on the right in any way. It is something you and the left made up so they could attack people you hate. You took a quote from Trump and twisted it beyond recognition and ignore everything else about what he has said on the subject in complete and utter bad faith in order to attack him.

exiledonmainstreet said...

What I am claiming, Inga, is that the overwhelming majority of anti-vaxxers are "progressives."

You know, the people who say they "love science."

Achilles said...

Inga said...

Are you for real? Your self awareness meter is malfunctioning again.

Brilliant. I appreciate that you adopt some of my criticisms of leftists and the flattery. But you don't seem to understand how self awareness is actually applied as a concept.

Tell us again how you want to treat "Stalinists" when the US becomes a full fledged dictatorship.

I generally just point out how reprehensible it is to support an open investigation against a person in order to find a crime when you have absolutely no evidence or probable cause of wrong doing. What you people are doing is Stalinist. What to do with Stalinists is generally inferred on my part.

Let's hear how Trump will save you from the Oligarchs, especially now that he publicly admitted that he chose Oligarchs for his Cabinet.

The left is consumed with WHO. We are consumed with WHAT. And your posts demonstrate a lack of understanding of the term oligarch. The Redstones are oligarchs. The Disney's are oligarchs. Bezos is probably almost there and he is acting correctly so they will let him in the club. There isn't anyone in the Trump cabinet nor is Trump himself anywhere near that level. I don't think you have a basic enough understanding of how he economy works to have a worthwhile discussion with you.

You are so far up Trump's ass that you can't find your way out.

Obligatory. Unconscious. Ignorant. Boring.

Inga said...

It appears I'm right.

Anti-vaccination across the political spectrum.

"To be accurate, the anti vaxxer nonsense is bipartisan, there are enclaves of left leaning and right leaning people who ignorantly believe vaccines cause autism."

Inga said...

"Obligatory. Unconscious. Ignorant. Boring."

Yes your incessant moral preening certainly is.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga somehow missed this line in the article she linked to;

"But it could also indicate that the conservative community’s anti-vaccination attitudes are a minor part of their overall attitudes and values."

Also, this:

"During the election campaign, the Green Party’s candidate Jill Stein was “pandering to the anti-vaccination crowd”

Inga says she voted for Stein.

exiledonmainstreet said...

And it's the progressive EU that Inga loves so much which actually made this law:

“The EU's highest court said that if the development of a disease is timely to the person's receiving a vaccine, if the person was previously health [sic] with a lack of history of the disease in their family and if a significant number of disease cases are reported among people receiving a certain vaccine, this may serve as enough proof.”

That's a hell of a lot more than Trump has done.

Inga, blinded by Trump hatred, fails Logic 101 once again.

Inga said...

"Inga says she voted for Stein."

You voted for Trump and he's a known anti vaxxer, lol.
------------------------
"Conclusion: The somewhat surprising politicization of vaccines
Even though this analysis is exploratory rather than definitive, it lends support to the idea that the anti-vaccine issue attracts people across the political spectrum. Network analysis as performed in this article cannot reveal how great the individual salience of anti-vaccination attitudes is; for that, other kinds of data and methods are necessary. But the network analysis in this article does support the hypothesis that anti-vaccination attitudes and beliefs transcend traditional partisan political attitudes.

With Donald Trump, a presidential candidate and now a President emerged who openly questions vaccinations. In doing so, he probably managed to mobilize some non-conservative voters. Theoretically and from a strategic point of view, this makes sense, since Donald Trump is not the only political figure in the recent past to usurp vaccines for political purposes. During the election campaign, the Green Party’s candidate Jill Stein was “pandering to the anti-vaccination crowd”11. Eventually, however, Donald Trump was the only candidate who fully “owned” 12 the issue of anti-vaccination, and voters with strong anti-vaccination preferences had a rational interest in voting for Donald Trump."

exiledonmainstreet said...


"You voted for Trump and he's a known anti vaxxer, lol."

And so is Stein and you voted for her (or so you say, of course, you're probably lying about that too."

What anti-vaccination EO has Trump actually introduced? Has any Trump-appointed judge done what your beloved EU has?

No. So stop digging, fool.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I guess I should go easy on Inga. She hasn't been very happy for the last couple of days.

Inga said...

"...stop digging, fool.."

Stop snarling junkyard dog.

n.n said...

Obama's refugee crisis. His legacy. Well, Obama, human rights and "reformed", liberal, progressive religious organizations, and social justice activists that believe they can fight "clean" wars: out of sight and out of mind, and online. Inspired by the progressive liberal final solution for lives deemed unworthy and "green" solutions.

Inga said...

Trump is on record ( which I have provided) as a virulent ( pun intended) anti vaxxer, own it and own him, he's yours.

Fernandinande said...

86 comments and only 82 mentions of "Trump".

exiledonmainstreet said...

I don't give a shit what Trump says about vaccines. He hasn't actually done anything, has he? He didn't appoint goofy Bobby from the sainted liberal Kennedy family to a post.

No, it's the stupid, regressive, brain-dead and failing EU that has taken actual measures against vaccinations.

And Inga loves them.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Fernandinande said...
86 comments and only 82 mentions of "Trump".

Yeah. And the story has nothing to do with him.

But Inga had to find a way to vent her hatred....

n.n said...

While there are a few, many people on the [twilight] fringe who perceive vaccines as magical elixirs that prevent diseases, and with no side-effects, normal people will acknowledge that vaccines are part of a risk management protocol.

khesanh0802 said...

I had to go pick up a couple of sharpened chains for my saw so I am happy to see that others stepped up to the plate with Inga. I must say that her ability to sustain an unsustainable argument is impressive. If we want to talk about Trump's position today ( which, of course is the important one) she wants to talk about what he said in 2007. If we want to talk about what he said in 2014 she wants to make inferences about what he might have been talking to Bobby-boy about. If she can't nail down Trump she wants to besmirch Ben Carson, or perhaps, Tom Price. An amazing performance - especially for someone who admits that she might have expressed her personal opinion about her own children's health care. What stamina!

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

Now I have to go feed the horses and walk the dogs so I am signing off for today. It has been fun on a rainy day!

Drago said...

Inga appeared particularly distraught when it was learned that one of Inga's beloved vioent illegal aliens murdered the 17 year old Muslim girl. That and pajama boys defeat have sent Inga careening over the edge.

Not that she needed much pushing, if you get my drift.

Drago said...

Inga won't be happy until thousands of American citizen school children have the opportunity to commune closely with unvetted and unhealthy immigrants.

Because #SocialJustice!

Drago said...

The best news of all for Inga is that the location of the murder is a sanctuary City! So that illegal alien murderer will be protected as much as possible.

Great job Inga!

Inga said...

In reality, Germany and Italy are taking a hard line on vaccinating their children.

Exile said....
"And it's the progressive EU that Inga loves so much which actually made this law:

“The EU's highest court said that if the development of a disease is timely to the person's receiving a vaccine, if the person was previously health [sic] with a lack of history of the disease in their family and if a significant number of disease cases are reported among people receiving a certain vaccine, this may serve as enough proof.”"
---------------------------

"The German government is taking a very aggressive stance against parents who do not vaccinate their children.

The German government is making a controversial move against parents who choose to refrain from vaccinating their children. Germany will pass a law next week that will force kindergartens to inform the authorities if parents don’t provide evidence that they have gotten advice from their doctor on vaccinations for their children.

And it won’t be a small penalty for anti-vaccination parents, as they risk fines of up to 2,500 euros ($2,800) under the law, which will take effect on June 1 in all likelihood. It’s part of a growing vaccination push across Europe as the popularity of the anti-vaccination movement rises. Authorities claim that the growing refusal to immunize has led to a resurgence in measles, chicken pox, and mumps, although vaccination opponents dispute this.

“Nobody can be indifferent to the fact that people are still dying of measles,” German health minister Hermann Groehe told Bild newspaper. “That’s why we are tightening up regulations on vaccination.”

Italy also made a push for vaccination earlier this month, making vaccination compulsory after reports from health officials indicated that vaccination rates were falling."

http://www.babwnews.com/2017/05/beware-anti-vaxxers-the-german-government-is-coming-for-you/

Fernandinande said...

Germany: Migration Crisis Becomes Public Health Crisis

In addition to the massive economic and social costs, as well as the burden of increased crime, including a rape epidemic, Germans are now facing the risk of being exposed to exotic diseases — and tuberculosis.

Twenty types of vaccines are now in short supply, and 16 others are no longer available at all. Because of production bottlenecks, some vaccines will not become available until 2017.

Muslim women refuse to be treated by male doctors, and many Muslim men refuse to be treated by females. — Max Kaplan, director of the Bavarian Medical Board.

German media outlets are downplaying the extent of the healthcare problem, apparently to avoid spreading fear or provoking anti-immigrant sentiments.

n.n said...

provoking anti-immigrant sentiments

They're concerned about provoking pro-native sentiments. The refugee crises were caused by anti-native movements, including elective wars, elective regime changes, and bribing, forcing survivors to cross a trail of tears. It is a clean war favored by liberals for political progress.

Expat(ish) said...

@Bob Ellison - Wow, "The Great Brain." Loved that series. Could NOT get my kids into it.

Weirdly their aunt/uncle were Mormons at the time, so I thought...

Shows you what Harry Potter (*pftu* spit) can do to the reading public.

-XC

Bad Lieutenant said...

+1 The Great Brain was badass!

Achilles said...

Inga said...

“What we’ve done with Baron, we’ve taken him on a very slow process. He gets one shot at a time then we wait a few months and give him another shot, the old-fashioned way. "

Thanks for letting us know Trump is the only anti-vaxxer to fully vaccinate his child. Impeach him!

You are warped by hate.

Rusty said...

Somebody run on over to Ingas and remove all the sharp and pointy thing with which she can do herself harm. Contrarily warn all the republicans in the neighborhood that she might be armed.

Inga said...
"As if Althouse Trumpists will care what happenes to these children, afterall they all grow up to be terrorists, right?"

Absolutely, Inga. That's why we have troops over there to make sure little brown children die of diseases we have eradicated here at home. troops are there to insure the continued flow of Syrian oil.