May 26, 2017

What if Dusko Markovic had shoved Donald Trump back and Trump had yelled "You just body-slammed me" and we had the whole thing not on video, but only audio?

Here's Trump getting physical with the Prime Minister of Montenegro.



I don't know if you've ever been videotaped moving through a packed, stopped crowd, with the camera zoomed in on you and the video rendered in slow-mo at the point at which you made the most physical contact and the most forward progress. But that happened to Trump. And even in that clipped-down snippet, we see Dusko Markovic smile, which reassures fair-minded people that it wasn't a big deal, but even so, it gave the anti-Trump folks something to cry "thug" about and psychoanalyze — "You tiny, tiny, tiny little man," tweeted J.K. Rowlingand mock. Everything that can be used will be used.

But what if the camera weren't there? I assume Trump would have behaved differently, perhaps he'd have been more brusque and brutal, perhaps less. He might have barged through more carelessly if he knew there were no visual record. But he might have been more patient and meek, because he wouldn't have had to worry about looking comically ineffectual. And the situation he faced might have been different if the people in front of him had had no concern that they might look disrespected and unimportant.

It's even possible that the blockage Trump faced was a deliberate closing of ranks by the European leaders assigned to the back row, so the cameras would capture thousands of images of poor Trump, stuck behind the feisty Europeans, unable to make his way forward. Imagine the headlines the newspapers could plop on top of the funniest, most symbolic-seeming picture of trapped Trump.

But what if the cameras weren't there and instead we had audio? Men moving for position within a crowd, each with his own agenda, each wanting power and high respect. They're jostling around and past each other. And let's imagine that Dusko Markovic, without the camera, reacted to Trump by pushing back, just a little bit harder. Picture it: Trump barged past, a little physical, and then Markovic took a you-push-me-I-push-you attitude and deliberately knocked Trump back. Remember, there's no video. But there's audio, and Trump yells "You just body-slammed me."

You see my point. All we'd have would be Trump's "You just body-slammed me." We wouldn't know that Trump did some modest manhandling that Markovic experienced as degrading and that Markovic was doing the old manly tit-for-tat.

You can do things with audio. I have no idea what really happened in the audio involving Greg Gianforte that was all over the news yesterday, but Gianforte has won the special election in Montana — with something like a 7 point margin of victory — and he's made a careful apology: "I should not have responded the way I did, for that I'm sorry. I should not have treated that reporter that way, and for that I'm sorry, Mr. Ben Jacobs."

I say "careful," because he doesn't say what, exactly, "the way I did" was or why — there are many reasons — he "should not have responded" like that. Of course, he's sorry. He wisely refrains from adding nonapology baggage after "I'm sorry." (People often add words like "if anyone was offended," but they never add "that I got into so much trouble.")

Speaking of "careful," going forward, politicians need to be careful. I'm worried about things that can be done with audio. The "body-slamming" vocalization may have been entirely justified by whatever happened out there in Montana, but it also points the way to endless dirty tricks. You can say anything, and you can say it with feeling: Hit hit me! He grabbed me! How dare you! You choked me!

You can lie with video too. Dusko Markovic could have hammily stumbled off to the side and fallen on the floor. But lying with speech is the normal, daily behavior of the human being. It comes so naturally and easily to us. Fortunately, sorting through lies and deceit is also something we do every day. It's hard to keep up. But we still care about trying.

160 comments:

Robert Cook said...

What's weird is that Trump doesn't even look at the man until after he pushes him aside.
There's definitely something wrong with Trump. He's not just your everyday garden-variety douchebag.

Snark said...

Slo-mo does the sociopath a favour. It looks even worse a regular speed.

cubanbob said...

Greg Gianforte should not have apologized at all. The prog propagandist from the Guardian got what he deserved. As for Trump, again too suffer those European parasites and fools it's a miracle he kept as calm as he did. Global warming is what is their minds while bombs go off in Manchester.

Ron Snyder said...

It's Montenegro, whats the big deal. Montenegro should not be in NATO. Are you willing to send your sons/daughters to fight for Montenegro? How does Montenegro represent a vital national security interest for America.

Tank said...

Trump was just responding to the photographer asking him to move to the center.

Amadeus 48 said...

"He's not just your everyday garden-variety douchebag."

Yeah. He's POTUS. I always felt the same way about Obama.

Robert Cook said...

"Trump was just responding to the photographer asking him to move to the center."

Didn't he learn the words "Excuse me" in kindergarten?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Did J.K. Rowling have anything to say about the Manchester slaughter?

It's wonderful to see our betters focused on the really important things.

Robert Cook said...

"Yeah. He's POTUS. I always felt the same way about Obama."

Yeah...it seems we're fated to have douchbags as our Presidents. When was the last one that wasn't a douchbag? Jerry Ford?

MadisonMan said...

I await the onset of fatigue among the more hysterical Trump opponents.

exiledonmainstreet said...

It's true Obama never shoved anybody aside.

His specialty was giving people the finger while pretending to scratch his face.

That's trick I remember from the 4th grade.

Ann Althouse said...

"Didn't he learn the words "Excuse me" in kindergarten?"

English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe. But I guess there's English privilege — the way we English-speaking people assume everyone else should have learned our language.

Owen said...

In yesterday's thread about Gianforte I was kind enough to offer some aspiring entrepreneur an idea for clinics to train politicians how to crush insteps and otherwise push back on reporters who got too intimate. Today at the same low price I suggest a complementary clinic for reporters and others wanting to mess with a public figure, by improving their acting skills. Stage fights are highly rehearsed and so are the fake injuries, falls, pretend deaths. As everything gets put onto the live digital feed, people need to up tgeur game. Next time, Gianforte could be hiding in a locked room miles away, and the reporter should be good enough to make it look like a real encounter and a felony assault. A new world, people.

Kevin said...

Everything that can be used will be used.

By any means necessary.

Ann Althouse said...

"Did J.K. Rowling have anything to say about the Manchester slaughter?"

It's easy to go to her Twitter feed and get the answer to that question.

And the answer is of course she did.

I lost count of how many tweets about it there were.

Kevin said...

Next up: Montenegro contains the word "negro". Just the latest in Trump's racist attacks.

Kevin said...

Today at the same low price I suggest a complementary clinic for reporters and others wanting to mess with a public figure, by improving their acting skills.

NBA-style flopping coming to a press conference near you.

Brookzene said...

Our classless president. What could go wrong?

Brookzene said...

"English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe."

Right. There are western world leaders who don't know what "Excuse me" means because they don't speak English.

Patrick said...

It's pretty amazing the number of times over the past year or so that a journalist became the news story. There's the physical altercations. The eye rolls. Are we just noticing these things more? Are journalists more aggressive and more belligerent than in times past? What exactly is the etiquette of shoving a phone or camera or microphone in someone's face? Is there a red line?

Amadeus 48 said...

Consider former Sen. George Allen (R-Va). Remember his "macaca" moment? The WaPoo ran scores of articles about it, most of them characterizing it as a view into the dark heart of Allen. In those days, it wasn't what the video showed as much as it was what the MSM said it showed. Now, we all have an opinion that can and is shared on the internet. Call it progress.

Rob said...

Just a damn minute. Montenegro's a country?!

exiledonmainstreet said...

OK, I see Rowling did comment on the bombing. She posted pictures of the victims (good for her) and repeated utterly trite "oh, how tragic but we must stand together" sentiments.

Laura Ingraham tweeted "What exactly is accomplished by making the Eiffel Tower go dark? How does that improve situation w/ homegrown &migrant jihadis?"

Rowling's reply was: " It accomplished the aim of expressing compassion, respect and solidarity. Do you sneer at funeral flowers, too?"

Ah, yes, we need more "solidarity." It will hold us in good stead until June's terrorist attack when we will replenish our supply by making the Eiffel Tower go dark again. Stock up on teddy bears and candles.

Morrissey's comment hit the mark.

Bob Ellison said...

You can also decode audio. There are markers from modification. You can hide them, too. It's something a forensics expert in audio would know about, but the MSM would not.

AllenS said...

Laura Ingraham tweeted "What exactly is accomplished by making the Eiffel Tower go dark?

Well, they've tried candlelight vigils, and that didn't work, so the darkness thing is now hip.

Paco Wové said...

Body-slamming seems to be in vogue this year. A few years ago, people were all about curb-stomping. Which is more extreme?

Amadeus 48 said...

"English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe."

Is this irony? I bet every NATO member has a leader who speaks passable English. It is the lingua franca, so to say, of Europe.

And while we're on the topic of lingua franca, Whittaker Chambers says in "Witness" that German was the lingua franca of the international Communist movement until WWII. It must have been Marx's influence.

karlpopperghost said...

Who cares? Euro-sissies need to MOVE. That means you Ben Jacobs or Prime Minister of Nobody Cares.

Now the President of Croatia.... respect.

Clyde said...

I guess that the only real downside to Gianforte's win is that now Republican candidates in special elections will want to invite more obnoxious foreign journalists to come for punching photo ops.

What is the plural name for a group of journalists, by the way? A plague? A mendacity?

Rene Saunce said...

Impeach him! He's Hitler!

Rob said...

BTW, Montenegro--whatever that is--doesn't become a member of NATO until June 5. Until then its president has to eat at the kids' table.

Bob Ellison said...

Clyde, that guy was apparently an American, judging by his accent.

Your point is good, though. Want to get ahead in the news? Just be pretty and get yourself punched! We can show you how!

Pookie Number 2 said...

Everything that can be used will be used.

And the impact of anything used will be diluted.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Hit hit me! He grabbed me! How dare you! You choked me!

I am not resisting- Said loudly and repeatedly by people being arrested, while clenching their arms under their bodies, to, you know, resist arrest.

Bob Boyd said...


Interestingly, Dusko's Finance Minister is named Darko. No seriously. Darko Radunović.

When it comes to the Montenegrin economy Dusko turns to Darko.

Hagar said...

English is the lingua franca of the world, and these days it is mostly the American (Hollywood) version - even in England.
In a number of countries with varied populations, such as India and Pakistan, and a number of African nations, etc., English is an - and effectively the - offical language because it is the one lannguage everyone has a second language annd they can all understand.

dreams said...

Trump is the alpha dog, deal with it wimp European leaders and all the Ben Jacobs of the liberal media.

Bob Boyd said...

"What is the plural name for a group of journalists, by the way? A plague? A mendacity?"

Douches come in a bag.

Fernandinande said...

Ron Snyder said...
It's Montenegro, whats the big deal.


Montenegro is like half of New Hampshire: half the land area, half the population, but only about 1/10th the income.

IOW, a very important place.

Amadeus 48 said...

The new line to candidates from the RNC:

"Please address all journalists (particularly those from national and international media) as follows: 'You talkin' to me? You talkin' to ME? You TALKIN' to me? Well, who the fuck you talkin' to? I'm the only one here.' This should be followed by either a body slam or pulling a firearm from your person and getting the drop on the journalist, at your discretion. Local journalists should be treated more circumspectly."

mockturtle said...

Interestingly, Dusko's Finance Minister is named Darko. No seriously. Darko Radunović.

When it comes to the Montenegrin economy Dusko turns to Darko.


LOL! You can't make this stuff up!

karlpopperghost said...

Here's a point of view that claims it was a "man hug" not fully captured on video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Pp5vlL0sk

Fernandinande said...

exiledonmainstreet said...
Did J.K. Rowling have anything to say about the Manchester slaughter?


Ack! You tricked me into looking. She's copy/pasting BBC blurbs about how wonderful all the dead people were, because wonderful people don't deserve to die.

"Beautiful inside and out" for someone who's been blown up - oops.

Michael K said...

"Our classless president. What could go wrong?"

Knee jerk.

The press has decided to become part of the story. I don't think it help MeAgain Kelly to start the Fox News debate as she did. No doubt the Trump haters were pleased.

I think the Guardian reporter was trying for a late hit as he crashed that press private meeting. It was NOT an open press conference.

What is the Guardian doing at a Montana Congress election ?

Hoping for a GOP defeat so headlines can say Trump is rejected ?

Did he decide to give it a push, so to speak ?

It backfired badly.

William said...

Face it, Trump's mannerisms are inelegant and occasionally crude. Being a boor is not the same as being a fascist. Goebbels looked rather elegant and precise in his gestures. I don't see Trump's crudeness as, in Orwell's phrase, a boot perpetually on the face of mankind but rather as a bird flipped forever to the delicate sensibilities of the chattering classes. They feed off each other. In the presence of the media's prissy criticism, Trump's pushiness comes off as a form of sincerity.

Fernandinande said...

Montana State Fair booth idea:
"Punch a journalist $1"
"Punch a journalist with a smarmy British accent - $10"

Bob Boyd said...

It looks to me like Dusko slapped Trump's hand away.

Rene Saunce said...

"Punch a hack" - You can drain my bank account.

Amadeus 48 said...

A collective noun for journalists? A lot depends on context.

Try:

a slant of journalists
a smear of journalists
a jeer of opposition journalists
a cheer of supportive journalists
a sneer of journalists
a fan of journalists
a harem of journalists

CJinPA said...

A little late, but...

Am I the only one who sees Trump pat the guy on the back?

It was a rough Guy Thing. The 'Let me in there' and the 'Hi bud' - the challenging move and the affectionate move - were of the same intention. It's not my style, but it's pretty common. I expect women to not get it, but are there so few men left in the commentariat?

Matthew Sablan said...

Technically, I believe it is a gaggle.

Rene Saunce said...

Where is the context? What if he was following orders from secret service, or the camera person wanting Trump in front?
or something else?

yes - Trump is often clumsy. Oh well. Still beats corrupt.

Limited blogger said...

Not tired of winning.

William said...

Trump can shoot someone on Fifth Ave and still win. All the way out in Montana, however, the effect is diluted, and Trump supporters just get to body slam Guardian reporters. He probably wouldn't have won the election if he had shot the reporter, but who really knows.

CJinPA said...

Markovic, afterward, responded to questions by shrugging it off.

“This was an inoffensive situation,” Markovic said. “I do not see it in any other way.”

He said he had the opportunity Thursday to thank Trump personally for his support of Montenegro’s entry into NATO and “of course the further development of our bilateral relations.”

“But, when journalists are differently commenting this scene,” the prime minister said. “I want to tell you that it is natural for the president of the United States to be in the first row.”

Rene Saunce said...

7 point lead.

I don't approve of violence, but the hack media pile-on probably helped him. The media beat the R's up every day. At some point, people snap.

Americans hate pro-democrat media hacks. And we vote.

CJinPA said...

Also, the spots for the photo they were lining up for are predetermined. Trump wasn't jockeying for a prime position.

john marzan said...

markovic could have done a michelle fields

EDH said...

At first it looks like Trump is pulling to Dusko to a side-by-side 3/4 pose, a la Jessica Valenti (Althouse: "Let's take a closer look at those breasts"), hence the smile from Dusko, then Trump realizes Dusko is Eurotrash and moves forward.

Sebastian said...

"politicians need to be careful" Correction: non-left politicians need to be careful. The others can do as they please.

traditionalguy said...

And how many Armored Tank Divisions do Montenegro's Politician command in defense Europe?

And Mattel toy models do not count.

Scott Adams as usual put this into context. The other guy helped Trump get through to the front. And the event could not begin until Trump took his position in front as the Commander of NATO.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...You can lie with video too. Dusko Markovic could have hammily stumbled off to the side and fallen on the floor.

But that sort of thing never happens, Professor. Don't be silly--these are adults and professionals.

EDH said...

What was not captured on video was Debbie Wasserman Shultz warning the defense minister of Lichtenstein that "there would be consequences."

AllenS said...

Clyde said...
What is the plural name for a group of journalists, by the way?

How about a swamp of journalists?

Bob Boyd said...

A hack of journalists?

Danno said...

Blogger Paco Wové said...Body-slamming seems to be in vogue this year. A few years ago, people were all about curb-stomping. Which is more extreme?

Actually, I believe GOP politicians should practice the pile-driver.

traditionalguy said...

Sorry, but there was nothing clumsy about Trump's moves in public.

If you want to remove Trump as President, then it will have to be for the High Crime of speaking to Russians and then firing the Clinton's totally corrupted FBI Director.

Danno said...

Or maybe the figure-four.

Get those bastards to confess their evil before you release them.

Angel-Dyne said...

CJinPA: It was a rough Guy Thing. The 'Let me in there' and the 'Hi bud' - the challenging move and the affectionate move - were of the same intention. It's not my style, but it's pretty common. I expect women to not get it, but are there so few men left in the commentariat?

Plenty of men still around the local commentariat. If you meant "media" instead of "local commentariat", then I see your point. Sometimes it seems like nothin' but cat-ladies of both sexes left in them thar parts.

CStanley said...

In the video you can see that he did speak as he was passing Markovic, so probably did say excuse me or the like. He also appeared to be patting his back with his left arm at the same time he reached around the front in order to get Markovic's attention and get by him....so that video another commenter linked to which described it as a man hug might be going a bit far but was pretty accurate.

At any rate, what made it appear rude was the combination of assertiveness and lack of eye contact, culminating in a haughty sort of look with his chin in the air. If Trump wanted to become more refined and avoid these sorts of criticisms he could work on that, but I highly doubt that he sees this overwrought reaction as a liability to himself.

Anyway, the press and liberal readers/viewers got their "GWB gave Angela Merkel a shoulder rub" moment. NBC even put this together with a montage of other leaders and attendees giving side eye, whispers, and eye rolls.

Bruce Hayden said...

"Trump can shoot someone on Fifth Ave and still win. All the way out in Montana, however, the effect is diluted, and Trump supporters just get to body slam Guardian reporters. He probably wouldn't have won the election if he had shot the reporter, but who really knows."

I think that it really depends on the gun used. We were watching a commercial for Henry Repeatg Arms yesterday, and I told my partner that if she had that sort of money available, I would love one. They sell very nice, very classical, lever guns. And I know a guy in the next town east who openly carries an old style revolver (and has Longhorns loose out back of his store). Shooting someone with one of those types of guns would probably be excused, outside the big (MT) cities. But maybe not one of those Glock thingies. If you are going to engage in western justice, you probably need to use a classical western firearm to make it legitimate. ;-)

readering said...

Are you going to believe me or your own eyes and ears?

Snark said...

The irony is that it's not that anything that can be used will be used against Trump, it's that anything that can't be defended will be defended. The casual acceptance of violence and aggression linked with political power are foolish steps down a path that has been well worn in other parts of the world.

And a group of journalists is called a democracy. Something it is possible to figure out too late.

Fernandinande said...

Ann Althouse said...
But I guess there's English privilege


Typical misuse of the word 'privilege'; the correct word is 'superiority'.

— the way we English-speaking people assume everyone else should have learned our language.

It's a safe assumption for just about everyone is northern Europe, and for any Europeans who've been to college.

Bruce Hayden said...

"But maybe not one of those Glock thingies. "

That was aimed at being humorous. Plenty of Glocks here, including one in my pickup, and the next handgun on my wish list is a G40 as a bear gun. One nice thing about being right by ID, is that Lone Wolf Distributing is only a couple hours away. They are the company that sells a non-Glock Glock (constructed completely from their own 100% compatible Glock replacement parts).

Hagar said...

In my time long ago, we started English in 5th grade.

Inga said...

It's not the left that has lost their minds or their bearings. Is there no end to the Trump sycophancy? How far will Trumpists go to prop up their Golden God with feet of clay? It's like watching mass hysteria, or mass retardation, fascinating, but disturbing on so many levels.

"The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased. The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently. Institutions and individuals that once served an important ideological role, providing a balance to media bias, are discrediting themselves in crucial ways. With the blessings of a president, they have abandoned the normal constraints of reason and compassion. They have allowed political polarization to reach their hearts, and harden them. They have allowed polarization to dominate their minds, and empty them.”

Michael Gerson

Sydney said...

@CJinPA at 8:03AM - Yes, I noticed the pat on the back, too. Once again, much ado about nothing. When will our journalists wake up and realize they are damaging their reputations and making the news business spin faster down the toilet than ever before?

Henry said...

Good thing NATO isn't Futbol.

rehajm said...

Given Trumps tinyness why does she need to comment daily re: his every move?

grackle said...

Normal stage management for Trump, who produced and starred in a hit reality show, who has probably physically assisted actors(in this case a bit player) to their proper place on the set more times than he could count.

Trump’s thoughts: Light blue tie … blocking me from cameras … use the ol’ from-the-rear-grab/hug … step aside, pal … ahh … that’s better …

It’s automatic and BTW automatically accepted by the fellow from Montenegro. Alpha male behavior that confuses and frightens the betas.

To Karlpopperghost: Thanks for the link. I immediately subscribed.

Gahrie said...

"The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased. The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently. Institutions and individuals that once served an important ideological role, providing a balance to media bias, are discrediting themselves in crucial ways.

Classic Lefty projection. The Left and their media allies have been throwing a temper tantrum for the last eight months, but it is Conservatives that are the problem.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said..English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe. But I guess there's English privilege — the way we English-speaking people assume everyone else should have learned our language.


Ricky Gervais, "Animals" stand up:
You don’t need to speak French if you’re English. If you go to France, point, talk a little bit louder, and if he still doesn’t understand what you’re saying, smash the place up – secure in the knowledge that you tried your best.

Henry said...

Best/Worst Fake Soccer Injuries: Dives and Flops!

Good thing Montenegro's Prime Minister isn't Ronaldo.

zipity said...


Never underestimate the virulence of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Makes Bush Derangement Syndrome look like a head cold by comparison.

Gahrie said...

English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe. But I guess there's English privilege — the way we English-speaking people assume everyone else should have learned our language

That is because for the most part they have.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Inga (quoting Michael Gerson): The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently. Institutions and individuals that once served an important ideological role, providing a balance to media bias, are discrediting themselves in crucial ways.

Wait, so there was a time when the Left and the Media considered the "conservative movement" sane? I'm approaching middle age and I can't remember a time when conservatives weren't called crazy and evil. The "strange new respect" for everyone from Ronald Reagan to GWBush and Mitt Romney is funny to witness but anyone who's paid even minimal attention knows the smart people have always asserted, loudly, that anyone not on the Left was diseased in some way. "Conservative" people in the media even more so--an organization like Fox News was never given any kind of respect even just as something playing "an important ideological role." Sorry, this is all bullshit. You guys want to say "this time we're SERIOUS, Trump is actually all the things we've accused every other Repub. leader of being all these years" but the truth is it's too late. You've said for years that conservative organizations were unworthy of respect, so turning around now and complaining that those organizations are acting in unrespectable ways...what effect could that complaint possibly have?

Michael K said...

We were watching a commercial for Henry Repeatg Arms yesterday, and I told my partner that if she had that sort of money available, I would love one.

I was going to get one a few years ago but they are really heavy ! The only thing heavier is a Thompson submachine gun.

Still, once we get the house finished, maybe I'll look into it again. They are pretty.

Between Trump and the Gianforte incident, the lefties are more nuts than usual, with the expected results.

Now, if we can only get Ryan and McConnell to do what they are elected to do...

Rene Saunce said...

Corruption excusing leftwing fascists telling us our minds our diseased.

Keep it up.

Rene Saunce said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rene Saunce said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
HoodlumDoodlum said...

I forgot to add, of course, the hilarity of people on the Left clucking about Gerson's criticism of people in conservative media outlets is wonderful...last time I checked Gerson was himself supremely evil, responsible for mass murder (by supporting GWB's Iraq actions), etc. Now his moral judgement is not only valid but held up as something that should shame people on the Right. Strange new respect, again! Too funny.

Inga said...

April,
Do you mean "accept"? Because "except" would be a whole different story, ya know?

Rene Saunce said...

20 Coptic Christians gunned down by Islamic extremists in Egypt. Progressive Leftwingland... silent.


Media hack body-slammed! by evil GOP! No video! - OMG! The end of democracy as we know it.

Rene Saunce said...

Venezuelan minds are diseased. Accept your fate, peasants.

Cuban minds are diseased. Accept your fate, peasants.

LOL - oops. Trying to run out the door.

rehajm said...

That is because for the most part they have.

Yes, I've never accepted the need to possess guilt over speaking English with everyone overseas. I need to communicate and it's generally the avenue to do so. Excepting the occasional French fop everybody kind of gets that...

Snark said...

"Where is the context? What if he was following orders from secret service, or the camera person wanting Trump in front?
or something else?"

The positions for the planned photo were predetermined. He was going to be in the front regardless of how and when he got there. The callous self interest indicated in the way he chose to get there is a reflection of his disordered personality, which I should be used to by now, but still find shocking in it's nakedness.

exiledonmainstreet said...

" The casual acceptance of violence and aggression linked with political power are foolish steps down a path that has been well worn in other parts of the world."

Like Berkeley California for instance. Or Portland or Oakland or DC on the day of Inauguration, where the Resistance bravely torched a limo owned by a Muslim immigrant because their candidate didn't win.

The Left treats my vote and the vote of millions of other Americans as illegitimate. And now you're whining about civility because Trump moved a non-NATO leader aside during a photo op and some Guardian twink got his glasses broken in Montana?

Like I said yesterday, it is becoming increasingly difficult to care about the rights of people who don't give a damn about mine.

madAsHell said...

English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe.

Yes, it does. You can't believe the number of people that learned English while watching "Friends" with close-captioned. I've heard this comment in China, and in Europe.

Known Unknown said...

The other angle posted does show things a bit differently. Everyone should at least take a look at it.

Brookzene said...

"The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased. The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently. Institutions and individuals that once served an important ideological role, providing a balance to media bias, are discrediting themselves in crucial ways."

Classic Lefty projection.

Except he's a rightie.

Snark said...

"Like Berkeley California for instance. Or Portland or Oakland or DC on the day of Inauguration"

No, that violence isn't okay either. But they're not the government, which was my point. Violence and aggression committed by those who make up the state is not state violence, but it certainly begins to foment the conditions for normalizing and accepting it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if many here defended some paramilitary that bloomed up in the same voice with which they defend Trump's callous shoving aside of a prime minister, or Gianforte's loss of control with the reporter.

Fen said...

Crackle at 9:05 is spot on. Excellent points.

Bill said...

A successful Balkan politician probably has sharp elbows of his own.

Marty Keller said...

Michael Gerson's a "rightie"? Hilarious!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Uh, snark, this isn't the first time a Congressman has assaulted a member of the press:

http://www.dailywire.com/news/16876/flashback-democratic-congressman-attacked-student-ben-shapiro

Fen said...

Gerson is a cuck. Out of touch with the people. He would castigate the Jews for making a fuss when they realized they were to be loaded into cattle cars. "It's unseemly. How will I face my friends at Martha's Vineyard?"

khesanh0802 said...

Trump's a New Yorker. How do you get where you want to go in a crowd in NYC. You do what Trump did. Fucking reporters!

Snark said...

"Uh, snark, this isn't the first time a Congressman has assaulted a member of the press:"

Again, that violence isn't okay either. But he wasn't re-elected, and Trump wasn't President. People seem to refuse on principle to acknowledge that things are different with this President. He has glorified both verbal and physical aggression, almost as a theme, since he started campaigning. It is a different normal operating in a different zeitgeist. The refusal to acknowledge all of this is, to me, the true Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Brookzene said...

He's such a slob and a boor that other New Yorkers can't stand him. You should see his poll numbers in New York.

His numbers continue to drop all over. The revelations pile up and up. In six months if not sooner his base will be less half of what it is now.

He's in his seventies and he can't change. This kind of power only makes him worse.

roesch/voltaire said...

Interesting that AH interprets Dusko Markovic's smile as reassuring fair minded people that it wasn't a big deal, when one could also read it as ironic and isn't just like this boorish man to push his way to the front, but then a blogger willing to believe that people at this level of govt and education wouldn't know the English words for excuse me shows how far a Trump apologist is willing to stretch the video and audio of events to protect their man.

Robert Cook said...

"I am not resisting- Said loudly and repeatedly by people being arrested, while clenching their arms under their bodies, to, you know, resist arrest."

It's also said, more often, by people who aren't resisting but are having the shit kicked out of them by a gang of burly cops.

What we also often see are a gang of burly cops shouting "Stop Resisting!" while kicking the shit out of their helpless, compliant victims.

Robert Cook said...

"What is the plural name for a group of journalists, by the way? A plague? A mendacity?"

A magazine.

Robert Cook said...

"yes - Trump is often clumsy. Oh well. Still beats corrupt."

With Trump you get a twofer: clumsy and corrupt.

And crude and crass.

And coarse.

Robert Cook said...

"A hack of journalists?"

That's a good one, Bob Boyd.

Robert Cook said...

"The Left and their media allies have been throwing a temper tantrum for the last eight months, but it is Conservatives that are the problem."

Ha! The always-aggrieved, always-persecutved Right has been having a collective hissy fit for almost 30 years.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"People seem to refuse on principle to acknowledge that things are different with this President."

Yeah, what's different is that you leftists are being treated as you treat others.

Like another commenter said, this is the world you created.

Enjoy it.

Snark said...

"Yeah, what's different is that you leftists are being treated as you treat others.

Like another commenter said, this is the world you created.

Enjoy it."


Uh huh. That's a pillar of conservative thought right there: somebody else is responsible for my behaviour and choices! It's seems to me that people don't even require if of themselves to makes any sense, as long as they can claw and scratch at "leftists" in the process.

Unknown said...

"You can lie with video too. Dusko Markovic could have hammily stumbled off to the side and fallen on the floor" sounds like what routinely happens in a soccer match.

steve uhr said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

@Bruce Hayden, the Henry looks great, but the brass receiver is heavy and reloading, based on the original Henry model of 1860, is clumsy and slow. You are better off getting clones of the 1873 or 1892 Winchester from Taylors, Cimmaron, Rossi ('92 only), or Winchester itself (which imports the guns from Japan). The '92s are light to carry and easy to point but a clever gunsmith can slick up a '73 so that in the hands of a good shooter it can be cycled nearly as fast as an AR.

CStanley said...

"Yeah, what's different is that you leftists are being treated as you treat others.

Like another commenter said, this is the world you created.

Enjoy it."


Uh huh. That's a pillar of conservative thought right there: somebody else is responsible for my behaviour and choices! It's seems to me that people don't even require if of themselves to makes any sense, as long as they can claw and scratch at "leftists" in the process.


I don't fully agree with the attitude described by the first commenter but I think the commenter who responded misunderstands it. What many conservatives (and most all Trump supporters) are doing is adopting the left's playbook. Alinskys Rules for Radicals, "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules" and If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.“

This is very different than the schoolyard retort that the other kid started it. It's a tactical means of working within a system that the other side promoted, because being well behaved cannot lead to success under the parameters that the other side has successfully implemented (in the viewpoint of these conservatives.)

Big Mike said...

And FWIW Crna Goro (the name of the country in proper Slovenian) is a bit smaller than Connecticut in total area and a little larger than Rhode Island in terms of usable land -- the rest is all mountains.

Michael K said...

In six months if not sooner his base will be less half of what it is now.

Let's see what 2018 brings. Then we can see what 2020 brings.

Predictions are not what they used to be. There used to be people who could disagree reasonably. Now it's a crazy game,.

Brookzene said...

@Michael K
Twice now you've fairly answered a couple of harsh comments of mine and no ad hominem attached such as I've come to expect when I post my opinion. I appreciate that.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Snark, wrote of the Democrat Congressman who assaulted a student reporter:

"But he wasn't re-elected, and Trump wasn't President."

So such behavior was fine when Obama was president? As ace points out:

"But the Dems were cool with that behavior, because they allowed him to run for the governorship in the Democratic primary, and then after he lost gave him a job in government! He is the executive director of the North Carolina branch of the U.S. Farm Service Agency, whatever the hell that is."

So spare me your crocodile tears.

chickelit said...

Ann Althouse said...I lost count of how many tweets about it there were.

But they're all retweets of others' words. Nothing from her. I understand, she's probably not keen on provoking a big fatwah. Not in a rush to die.

Brookzene said...

"But the Dems were cool with that behavior"

I want Dems to live up to the same standards that I hold Republicans and everyone else to - especially myself.

I don't go commenting on every Dem infraction because I don't need to here - no shortage of people criticizing the left here. But I don't make fake excuses or justifications when my side is in the wrong.

Not accepting responsibility is becoming a pillar of the right for some people.

Snark said...

"I don't fully agree with the attitude described by the first commenter but I think the commenter who responded misunderstands it. What many conservatives (and most all Trump supporters) are doing is adopting the left's playbook. Alinskys Rules for Radicals, "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules" and If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.“

This is very different than the schoolyard retort that the other kid started it. It's a tactical means of working within a system that the other side promoted, because being well behaved cannot lead to success under the parameters that the other side has successfully implemented (in the viewpoint of these conservatives.)"

That's an interesting contribution, and I appreciate your comment. The school yard retort misformulation of those ideas is ubiquitous, stultifying, and utterly useless in moving a conversation anywhere but backwards. It also frequently makes people sound full out stupid. I will remember what you've said here, and try to apply it in interpreting the comments and thoughts I read in the future.

Michael K said...

no ad hominem attached such as I've come to expect when I post my opinion. I appreciate that.

I try to do that but am provoked from time to time.

I try to resist. Several other commenters are much more provocative.

Martin said...

I assume that Markovic played soccer when he was young, so if he wanted to exaggerate the effect of Trump's apparently gentle but firm shove, he would know how to do it.

CStanley said...

Thank you Snark!

rcocean said...

"Except he's a rightie."

Gerson is NOT a "Rightie" - he's a Washington Post neo-con and a #Nevertrumper. He voted for Hillary.

Just because someone call themselves a "conservative" and worked for a Republican doesn't make him a "Rightie".

Brookzene said...

Neo-cons and nevertrumpers are righties. Gerson is certainly from the right. You don't want to own them because they're harsh to you, but they are conservatives. From the beginning many conservatives didn't like Trump and as time goes on others are peeling off from him and his brand of conservatism.

Henry said...

@Martin -- I posted a video, upstream.

n.n said...

Journolists reenact Occupy.

rcocean said...

"Neo-cons and nevertrumpers are righties."

No they are not. I don't care what a leftist like you thinks.

Michael K said...

From the beginning many conservatives didn't like Trump and as time goes on others are peeling off from him and his brand of conservatism.

The Ruling Class and the Deep State contain both parties. Read Codevilla's book, "The Ruling Class."

Trump ran against them and that included both parties. That is one of his problems . Perot would have had the same problem had he been elected. He does not have the party machine behind him.

Bill Kristol has said he would prefer The Deep State. That is a pretty shocking admission by those neo-cons who have been considered conservative because they supported Reagan against the Soviet Union and Bush's invasion of Iraq.

I don't know that much about Gerson but a lot of the NeverTrumpers are based in DC and have had long histories with the bureaucracy, as lobbyists or in think tanks funded by donors who control a lot of Congress.

The Democrats hard left turn with Obama and since has opened up the space that Trump has taken.

What you call "Conservatives" are a mixture of libertarian types like me and a lot of Washington swamp dwellers who have more in common with each other than they have with either Trump or Bernie.

If they were running the country efficiently and effectively, there would be little resistance. What they have done is plundered the country for their own welfare while making a mess of the economy and foreign policy. It really began with Johnson who tried to run the Vietnam War and remake the economy at the same time. It was called "Guns and Butter" at the time.

Social Security was raided again and again when it was running a surplus while the Baby Boomers were earning their peak incomes.

Now it is filled with IOUs from the 90s.

Vietnam turned the Democrats anti-military and antiwar, as we see with Cookie.

9/11 changed things for a short time but Iraq was so divisive, we probably should have let Saddam have Saudi Arabia. Of course, fracking was far in the future.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Benzene is accusing Trump of conservatism. Funny guy, our Benzene.

exiledonmainstreet said...

It’s funny to me how unsophisticated liberal thought is about the media and politicians. “FOX reporters said it, FOX is rightwing, so there!” Well, no, even before the purge that began with Ailes, there were Fox reporters and commentators who were and are decidedly not right wing – Shep Smith, Mara Ellison, and Juan Williams , for starters. Fox is different than the other cable and network outlets in that it is not as uniformly left-wing. Outside of Hannity and Judge Judy and a few others, I did not notice a great deal of Trump love from Fox during the campaign. But leftists have heard that Fox is “far right” and have been making cracks about “Faux News” for so long that they think “Fox reporters said X” is some sort of surefire “gotcha.”

Same goes for politicians. As Michael K. points out, the Ruling Class consists of pols from both parties. The DC Establishment, which is quite content with the status quo and doesn’t want Trump threatening its power and cushy positions, includes both Schumer and Ryan, Pelosi and McCain.

The deplorables in flyover country figured that out. The true rubes are those who haven’t.

Lucien said...

CJinPA mentions the rough Guy Thing. Over the years, i've developed an approach for moving past other men who are blocking my way - I'll give them an assertive nudge (similar to Trump), while at the same time saying in my best Hulk Hogan raspy growl, "Scuse me there, brother."

The combination of the nudge and the deep voice, combined with the politeness of "Scuse me" and the respect/friendliness of "brother" means that without fail, no matter how big the guy, he steps immediately to the side and says, "Hey, sorry about that" or words to that effect.

I'm not a big guy (5'10", 170 lbs.) but it works every time and never causes an issue.

Gahrie said...

Neo-cons and nevertrumpers are righties. Gerson is certainly from the right.

Gerson is cut from the same cloth as David Brock.

Michael said...

It appeared to me that Trump both knows this guy and was fucking around with him in a playful way.

n.n said...

What would a woman do when someone occupies her personal space and doesn't respond to "no"? Does she proceed to "no-no"?

Darrell said...

Dusko had his head up his ass. No situational awareness whatsoever. The driver on the right must yield to the driver on the left.

gadfly said...

The key counterpoint is that Donald Trump never apologizes - but that is okay with the fans.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Nothing to apologize for, gadfly.

And you wouldn't accept it if he did.

Gahrie said...

The key counterpoint is that Donald Trump never apologizes

It is kind of a nice change from Obama who was constantly apologizing for the US, even if never for himself.

Robert Cook said...

"Nothing to apologize for, gadfly."

The credo of every asshole walking the earth.

Robert Cook said...

"...Obama...was constantly apologizing for the US...."

Was he? When? Certainly not often or deeply enough. If he was ever apologetic, why did he continue America's appalling domestic and international behavior?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Wouldn't it just be easier to start with the things Trump does that you wouldn't defend and go from there?

Or is that list non-existent?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The deplorables in flyover country figured that out.

I'm starting to find all the persistently self-glorifying talk of "flyover country" to be exceedingly boastful and tiresome.

The coasts are like two toned and exquisitely pinch-worthy butt cheeks; the flyover is just the asshole in the middle.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"People seem to refuse on principle to acknowledge that things are different with this President."

Yeah, what's different is that you leftists are being treated as you treat others.


By a guy whom 60% of the country flat-out disapproves of.

Like another commenter said, this is the world you created.

Enjoy it.


Another Republican admits to being a partisan of the anti-responsibility party - which is the precise problem with Trump. None of you can figure out what you want. You just know that you hate the left, but can't do anything original, effective or even interesting. So you just accuse yourselves of being like the left, and therefore cement your plan to be absolved of any responsibility for anything. You can't even say what a right-wing politician is supposed to do as an effective head of state.

I think this means that you're openly admitting a lack of any reason for governing or being elected.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The Left treats my vote and the vote of millions of other Americans as illegitimate.

That's because your votes are typically either uninformed, incoherent or a ruse. Or party to an open con.

Bruce Hayden said...

"@Bruce Hayden, the Henry looks great, but the brass receiver is heavy and reloading, based on the original Henry model of 1860, is clumsy and slow. You are better off getting clones of the 1873 or 1892 Winchester from Taylors, Cimmaron, Rossi ('92 only), or Winchester itself (which imports the guns from Japan). The '92s are light to carry and easy to point but a clever gunsmith can slick up a '73 so that in the hands of a good shooter it can be cycled nearly as fast as an AR."

I will point this out to my partner, but she is taken with the Made In USA advertising. Of course, she has also promised me a Porsche. The rifle would be a lot cheaper,Nandi I don't really know what I would do with a sports car (besides keep it away from her and her lead foot - her father used to call her Parnelli for that and her love of fast cars).

EMyrt said...

Robert Cook said...

"Yeah. He's POTUS. I always felt the same way about Obama."

Yeah...it seems we're fated to have douchbags as our Presidents. When was the last one that wasn't a douchbag? Jerry Ford?

5/26/17, 7:05 AM

Dwight David Eisenhower

EMyrt said...

Blogger n.n said...
What would a woman do when someone occupies her personal space and doesn't respond to "no"? Does she proceed to "no-no"?
5/26/17, 3:34 PM

1. My best acid queen "I will kill you" glare, usually gets a quick hand off and sheepish submissive down glance. Sometimes a mumbled apology.
2. A loud "fuck off" if that doesn't work. Make eye contact, hard.
3. If that doesn't work, the hard grip with nails to the the wrist usually does.
4. If in high heels, escalate to heel in the instep. I've used that one twice.

furious_a said...

Gianforte roughs up a reporter and he's Luca Brasi. Fine.

Ted Kennedy flees the scene and leaves a young woman to drown and he's anointed Senator-for-Life. WTF?

SukieTawdry said...

English doesn't work so well when you're in a group of people from all over Europe.

To the contrary, it's the one language that does work reasonably well all over Europe. Fortunately for us.

chickelit said...

Someone wrote: Wouldn't it just be easier to start with the things Trump does that you wouldn't defend and go from there?

I would not defend Trump taking a dump on anyone's desk -- even Anderperson Cooper's desk. But the mere fact that he blurted that out in an emotional moment belies an anal fetish on his part.