May 3, 2017

Donald Trump is always saying "We have to do it/We have no choice," so why did he ask why the Civil War had to be fought?

And why did he throw out the idea that Andrew Jackson — if he'd been around a little later — could have found a way to avoid the Civil War?

Here's the idea that occurred to me, that I withheld to give you a chance to discuss it without my skewing your thought processes.

I'm not saying I definitely believe this was Trump's plan, only that it could have been and that the benefits serve his interests even if he merely bumbled into it.

Trump knows that the media will jump at opportunities to call him ignorant and/or racist. What he said about the Civil War seemed like another great opportunity. Historians — experts — were wheeled out to instruct us — imperiously, pedantically — that the Civil War had to be fought. There was no avoiding it. Nobody — not Andrew Jackson, not anybody — could have averted it.

Well, there you have it on the record now. Sometimes a war must be fought. It's not the failing of the President. Even the greatest Presidents are helpless against the coming onslaught of inevitable war.

What does Trump care about a 19th century war? He's not really trying to open up an intellectual discussion of whether there was anything that could have averted the Civil War, but he knows [OR: could have known] that historians are deeply dug in and will rouse themselves to make strong statements about the inevitability of war and the "plain nonsense" of the notion that "the right man with the right strength... can change the course of history."

Trump may never take us to war, but he wants his options. He wants to be able to say We have to do it, we have no choice and to assert that it's not his personal failure to avert war. It's plain nonsense to believe that a different man — a better man —would have avoided war. Look at all the historians who said exactly that — historians who thought they were schooling him and were, in fact, expanding his power. But they thought they were so smart, so educated, so up in a high place looking down on him. It only caused them to make their Trump-empowering statements more passionate and emphatic.

I don't know if he did that on purpose. But didn't that just happen?

240 comments:

1 – 200 of 240   Newer›   Newest»
Ann Althouse said...

I don't know if I nailed it in all respects, but I nailed the time. I said I'd give my answer at 5:00, and it's exactly 5:00.

AReasonableMan said...

Althouse said...
but he knows that historians are deeply dug in and will rouse themselves to make strong statements about the inevitability of war


What is the evidence that Trump knows this?

Yancey Ward said...

Well, it might help Trump's options if people could remember something from one minute til the next. People like little Paul Krugman switch positions every time a president from the opposing party takes office, and people don't seem to care.

It is interesting, though- the same historians who were trotted out would never make the argument that Bush's invasion of Iraq was inevitable.

I feel like I must be in The Matrix.

Ann Althouse said...

"What is the evidence that Trump knows this?"

If the strong version of my theory is true, then he knows. That's the theory.

If he just bumbled into it, he benefits the same as if he understood it all and meant to do it.

I don't mean to assert that I know he knew. But it's a fair guess, knowing that historians have what they were quick to assert is a consensus about the Civil War.

madAsHell said...

I'd like to believe that every statement Trump makes has a purpose to put someone else at a disadvantage, but there isn't any melange spice here, and Trump isn't a Guild Navigator.

cubanbob said...

If Trump starts quoting Lincoln watch out! As for the Andrew Jackson kerfuffle I suspect like others have posted here that he is preparing to start cracking down on Sanctuary Cities and States as soon as continuing resolution is passed.

Big Mike said...

I think you're onto something.

madAsHell said...

Ya know.....I take that back. He might be a Guild Navigator. It sure would explain the orange-ness.

johns said...

You may be right, Ann, but Trump's opposition don't care what argument they have to make or what they said before. Reminds me of the global warming pause; even though temperature has not risen for about 20 years, the party line has been that climate change is "getting much worse."

eric said...

I find him to be a lot more patient than I thought he was going to be.

When the hammer comes down, these fools are going to be shocked.

Chuck said...

I'm sorry, Professor. Trump just isn't that smart, that informed, or that calculating. I don't think he even knows enough about Andrew Jackson, to have any idea if that sequence of events/thought processes would work.

How are you enjoying Jon Meachum's book? Is that the Jackson biography you chose? I have read the Remini biography but not the Meachum biography.

After you finish Meachum's book, you will know about 1.5 million times more about Andrew Jackson than Trump. And you will be at least one Jackson biography ahead of Trump.

FullMoon said...

AReasonableMan said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Althouse said...
but he knows that historians are deeply dug in and will rouse themselves to make strong statements about the inevitability of war

What is the evidence that Trump knows this?

Another stupid comment. Where is the evidence he does not know this?

Sebastian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

Gonna have to agree with the LLR for a change. And what difference, at this point, does it make? "Y'all said the CW was inevitable. This new war is inevitable too. Therefore, don't blame me, just like you don't blame Lincoln." Sure, that's how the left's gonna rally around Donald J. Trump.

wwww said...



There's a lot of Civil War historians. I've found it curious that they haven't been involved in the debate. I don't know if they weren't called by the press, or if turn over time was to quick or what, but they weren't asked or on TV.

There is a new interview in the Chronicle with Dan Feller, a Jacksonian-era historian.

I dunno. Why would Trump need the permission of rando historians if he wants to start a war? How would this help him with popular sentiment? No one gives a shit about historians, or their opinions.

David Baker said...

Trump does have a tendency to get blindsided. And then turn it to his advantage.

Either way, the experts will never agree on the necessity of a Trump war. In that respect he stands alone, left to outwit himself.

The most noteworthy characteristic heretofore unknown; Donald Trump is a soft touch, a man who can be taken to the cleaners.

James K said...

This inevitability only applies to that specific war, at least the historians seem to say. They wouldn't say it about WWI, and since WWII grew out of WWI....

So I don't see how Trump gains a lot of leeway on this. I see it as more of claim that the right kind of leader, particularly one who knows how to negotiate, can broker even the most grievous and (heretofore believed) insoluble conflicts.

Ann Althouse said...

Bannon is a big history buff. Trump is channeling Bannon. He's Bannoning.

wwww said...



A Civil War, in the minds of most Americans, is a specific type of war, with a state splitting against itself. Not 2 different states engaging in a fight.

readering said...

Well that was an anticlimax.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Is anyone other than Althouse still jabbering about this?



My theory is that Althouse picked too long of an expiration date for the reveal of her theory.


One of us is right.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Trump does not need to know what historians would do - just what the media will do.Media would not have spread the historian's opinion if it did not reinforce their preferred narrative.

David Begley said...

We are already at war right now. Let's win this one first. And we must completely destroy ISIS. ISIS must be defeated so thoroughly that even they know they are defeated.

Bob Boyd said...

I don't buy it.

Nobody is going let Trump get away with saying, "This new war is inevitable because some historians said the Civil War was inevitable after I claimed it could have been prevented if the Jackson had been in office."
In fact, Trump's claim about Jackson implies that any war could possibly be prevented if the President has the right stuff. I'd say this gives future critics of future wars more ammo, not less.

Daniel Jackson said...

Not too shabby, Professor; not too shabby at all.

The question is whether this would hold true if the Federals were called out to put down a riot or a snowflake blizzard.

Is it limited to the obvious big war with a North Korea or Iran; or, generalizable to secessionists in California?

As for intention of bumbling, the post hoc ergo propter hoc holds; indeed, the very best magicians are the ones who appear inept and bumble their way to a spectacular conclusion.

pacwest said...

I'm missing it too. Are you saying this lays ground work for a NORK/Iran war? I would have picked someone besides Jackson to set that stage. Or is the evil genius planning on dropping a couple of MOABs on NY and SF?

Inga said...

"There was no avoiding it. Nobody — not Andrew Jackson, not anybody — could have averted it."

"Only I can fix it!"~Donald Trump

Only in the mind of a pathological narcissist.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-meacham-trump-deal-stop-civil-war-2017-5

"Presidential historian Jon Meacham said Tuesday that President Donald Trump told him last year that he could have negotiated a deal to avert the Civil War.

On Monday, Trump asked a Sirius XM radio host why the Civil War "could not have been worked out," and claimed that President Andrew Jackson was outraged by the war and would have avoided it, despite the fact that Jackson died 16 years before the war began."

John Taylor said...

I buy 25 September Calls on the speculation and hedge with 10 August Puts.

Nancy Reyes said...

there is a good argument that if a strong president had taken charge, he could have gotten a compormise similar to Jackson's carrot and stick approach when South Carolina talked about seceding over tariffs: Threaten them with the military and offer them a compromise.
There are arguments that slowly emancipating slaves and paying their "owners" could have stopped the Civil war.

true, paying workers would cost the plantation owners money, but hey, they could also fire unproductive or sick workers, as the factory owners did in the North.

Once written, twice... said...

Ann, this notion of yours is so silly that I am almost left speechless.

But I am not.

The obvious counterpoint is that the Civil War and the question of slavery that was behind it is so beyond comparison that one must invoke Godwin's Law if Trump or anyone else tries.

Michael K said...

"There are arguments that slowly emancipating slaves and paying their "owners" could have stopped the Civil war. "

I provided links to those discussions at the previous thread.

Lincoln tried. The south was convinced it would win, just as the left is convinced it will win.

This is not about Iran or North Korea.

Jack Wayne said...

Bannon is a believer in the Fourth Turning. Although it has nothing to do with the Dialectic, there are similarities. Instead of Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis, we have specially named generations which stand for responses to the previous generation. After the Fourth, the cycle starts over again. I think I'll stick with Heinlein's Crazy Years. It's more fun. And it's sci-fi so it's not serious....

AReasonableMan said...

FullMoon said...
Where is the evidence he does not know this?


"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."

Clark said...

@Sebastian: What is the LLR? Is that Let Love Rule? Lender of Last Resort? Life Long Red? the Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel test?

Once written, twice... said...

Ann, this is what you thought would "blow everyone's minds"?

Boy, what a let down.

Not.

FullMoon said...

AReasonableMan said...

FullMoon said...
Where is the evidence he does not know this?

"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."

5/3/17, 6:04 PM


Oh! The war on healthcare. My bad. Your right

R.J. Chatt said...

Like the saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Trump didn't really know that the media would parade out eminent historians to "prove" how wrong Trump is and how inevitable the Civil War was. Also, the left will always find a argument against any military involvement Trump might believe is necessary. Heck, the left even argues that we deserved 9-11. So imo, he's not really gaining ground in the event of future conflicts as far as his critics are concerned. For more examples of absurd partisan bias: Obama managed to keep us out of Syria and his supporters point to that as an accomplishment, ignoring the horrendous consequence of the rise of ISIS. Also, Obama managed to negotiate a deal with Iran delaying their development of nuclear weapons, still touted as a major accomplishment despite the infusion of billions into Iran's support for terrorism, murder and mayhem.

If I had to predict a conflict Trump is signaling is unavoidable it would be that of illegal immigration and sanctuary cities. There is something similar about the present conflict and Jackson's time regarding the nullification crisis in South Carolina and federal supremacy. Lately the news is all about how Trump's orders on defunding sanctuary cities are unconstitutional, but are sanctuary cities unconstitutional?

Once written, twice... said...

"This is just like Andrew Jackson, the civil war, and slavery, but only bigger. Believe me."

Once written, twice... said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Once written, twice... said...

And Ann, if you believe that Trump, either through "bumbling" or otherwise, is covering his tracks so he can take our country to war without having any personal accountability--then it really says something about your character and moral makeup that you do not retract from Trump in horror.

But you are a good German.

Inga said...

Does Trump want to be the guy who brings us to the brink of war and then pulls us back at the last minute because of his super duper negotiating skills. He wants to say "Only I can do it!" He's not a mad genius, he's only mad.

Drago said...

Inga: "Does Trump want to be the guy who brings us to the brink of war and then pulls us back at the last minute because of his super duper negotiating skills"

We will know Trump has super duper negotiating skills when he sends pallets of cash to our enemies and draws red lines that he runs away from.

Because that's what an earth-bound Messiah and "Light-Bringer" would do.

Matthew Sablan said...

Let's look at the negotiation failures and successes thus far of the Trump administration.

Successes: A few people freed from an oppressive regime; NATO members agreeing to pay their way; Russia admitting there are some limits to their support of Assad.

Failures: Mexico is not paying for the wall (neither is Canada); North Korea responded to his saber rattling with more of their own.

What else am I missing on both sides?

buwaya said...

" And it's sci-fi so it's not serious...."

!
SF (Science Fiction; "sci-fi" is trivializing and dismissive), is deadly serious.

One of these days I expect the start of the Butlerian Jihad.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I'm sorry, Professor. Trump just isn't that smart, that informed, or that calculating."

-- I don't like Trump much, but he is VERY good at spectacle and politics (remember the press briefing during the campaign with the Clinton accusers that effectively defanged the pussy-grabbing tape?)

I doubt this was intentional as well, what I do know is that I'm not going to immediately assume he's a raving moron.

Once written, twice... said...

Seriously, this is real goofy on Ann's part to explain away Trump's own goofiness in this goofy way.

No wonder Ann has found her hero in the King Goof.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Once written, twice... said...

And Ann, if you believe that Trump, either through "bumbling" or otherwise, is covering his tracks so he can take our country to war without having any personal accountability--then it really says something about your character and moral makeup that you do not retract from Trump in horror.

But you are a good German


Still tugging at mama's skirt and kicking her ankle, eh?
Gotta up your game to get her attention. Pee your pants, that might work again.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

A brilliant genius move would be for Trump to start carrying around a copy of
Brothers at War: The Unending Conflict in Korea by Sheila Miyoshi Jager.

Jack Wayne said...

What is the attack on free speech and the exhortation to get in line re AGW, if not the first steps of an anti-science jihad?

Inga said...

It's all just a reality show to him. Keep the audience guessing and coming back for more. He does what he has to to keep himself in the limelight and to get us to discuss him instead of the issues that affect us all.

FullMoon said...

Some of you guys need to take Trump more serious. He is no wimp. I saw, with my own eyes. how he beat the hell out of WWE chairman and tough guy Vince McMahon and made him shave his head on National tv.

Would love to see him spank little Chuckie Schumer.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."

-- Wait -- why are we holding this against Trump? Congress came up with a plan; they pitched it, it failed. This is how legislation is supposed to work.

Compare that to the atrocity that was passing the ACA, with literal lock outs of Republicans from proceedings. Trump didn't get something passed; that is not always a failure.

Drago said...

Inga: "He does what he has to to keep himself in the limelight...."

I wonder if he will spend an hour on ESPN sharing his all important bracket selections?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Trump didn't really know that the media would parade out eminent historians to "prove" how wrong Trump is and how inevitable the Civil War was."

-- Why wouldn't they? They trot out experts to counter any narrative they can about Republicans. There's a hilarious story where they tried to find truckers to beat up on Gorsuch, but a bunch of the truckers they talked to said: "The guy driving should never have left with his truck in that bad of repair."

Getting the "neutral expert" to explain "how dumb Republicans are" is literally the go-to strategy for media networks.

Once written, twice... said...

It is hilarious that even Ann's most rabid Althouse Hillbillies are not willing to follow her down this rabbit hole.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Inga said...

It's all just a reality show to him. Keep the audience guessing and coming back for more. He does what he has to to keep himself in the limelight and to get us to discuss him instead of the issues that affect us all.

5/3/17, 6:55 PM


Jeeze Inga, why always so angry? Suspect a session of firm, sensuous, massagelike titty twisting, in a kind and loving way, would do much to soften your perspective.
Good Luck.

Drago said...

Once written goes with the novel and never before used Godwin strategy to attack Althouse.

I wonder if the rest of the left will pick up on this "call our political opponents a nazi" strategy?

They have been so restrained to date.

Matthew Sablan said...

Mind you -- I don't think this is intentional for Trump. But, has the media acted in any non-predictable way?

Sebastian said...

@Clark: "What is the LLR? Is that Let Love Rule? Lender of Last Resort? Life Long Red? the Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel test?" No, no, no. no, no. Assuming you were in earnest, perhaps relatively new around here: Life-Long Republican.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

He doesn't know what he's talking about. He has no choice but to be on both sides of every issue. Stop pretending you're just noticing this.

Just rest assured that, whatever he said about Jackson, it was a retarded thing to say.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Why wouldn't they? They trot out experts to counter any narrative they can about Republicans.

Because Republicans are inveterate troublemakers who seem to delight in how much they can get wrong.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Because Republicans are inveterate troublemakers who seem to delight in how much they can get wrong."

-- Remember when Obama complained he didn't realize those jobs weren't shovel ready? Good times.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

There's a hilarious story where they tried to find truckers to beat up on Gorsuch, but a bunch of the truckers they talked to said: "The guy driving should never have left with his truck in that bad of repair."

Right. Which sounds like a really good reason to justify firing someone unwilling to die in the icy snow.

Inga said...

"Jeeze Inga, why always so angry? Suspect a session of firm, sensuous, massagelike titty twisting, in a kind and loving way, would do much to soften your perspective."

I suspect a good swift kick to your nuts would make you less creepy. I say that with much affection.

buwaya said...

"Because Republicans are inveterate troublemakers who seem to delight in how much they can get wrong."

https://straykernels.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/f4-large.jpg

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

-- Remember when Obama complained he didn't realize those jobs weren't shovel ready? Good times.

Tripled the Dow, cut unemployment in half, saved the country from a depression.

But I know how much you must like complaining about picayune things when you come from the party that put America through 1929 AND 2008.

You can always count on Repubicons to sweat the small and irrelevant stuff. It's their only ability, really.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Funny cartoon, double alligator face!

It would be even funnier if you didn't hate your adopted country so much and shirk so much responsibility for steering its public discourse to a productive, successful place.

But other than that, thanks for shooting the messenger.

eric said...


Tripled the Dow, cut unemployment in half, saved the country from a depression


There are a good number of people who actually believe Obama is responsible for tripling the Dow. This is why I'm warning you all now. Republican president means correction in the market.

It's all about perception. Invest wisely.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

-- Wait -- why are we holding this against Trump? Congress came up with a plan; they pitched it, it failed. This is how legislation is supposed to work.

Hahahahahhhhhaaaaahahahahahaaaahah uh haaaa hahah ahaha haha aaha uh ahahaha.

I especially like when they got booed off the stage at their town halls. So in touch with the people they wanted to uninsure and kill off. Maybe they should just deprive the uninsured of the vote. That's sort of what you'd expect, given their usual M.O.

Kevin said...

As far as I know, the US is the only nation that fought a civil war to end slavery. And yes, even if the war was ostensibly about states' rights, the #1 states' right to fight over was slavery.

Every other nation managed to phase out slavery without a civil war. Heck, most Northern states phased out slavery peacefully.

So it is perfectly understandable to wonder why the US had to endure a civil war. Personally, I think it could have been avoided. But the slave owning class in the South - the slaveocracy - had tremendous power and was determined to pick a fight that it thought it could win.

Wiser minds in the South might have been able to pull this off.

Michael K said...

Good god ! Another Ritmo thread ?

I told you. This is NOT about Korea.

RJ Chatt has it right.

If I had to predict a conflict Trump is signaling is unavoidable it would be that of illegal immigration and sanctuary cities. There is something similar about the present conflict and Jackson's time regarding the nullification crisis in South Carolina and federal supremacy. Lately the news is all about how Trump's orders on defunding sanctuary cities are unconstitutional, but are sanctuary cities unconstitutional?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Republican president means correction in the market.

Right. Hahahaha. Like the way W. "corrected" in 2008 the housing bubble he took no leadership to avert for the eight years of his presidency.

Whatever you guys need to say to feel better about your horrible politicians.

buwaya said...

"double alligator face!"

It is indeed an alligator, Claude, the famous white alligator of the Steinhart Aquarium. Contemplating his reflection on the surface of his pond, like Narcissus, but from under the water.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Good god ! Another Ritmo thread ?

A nursemaid's little poopy diaper baby says what?

Your face would look so much better if it was smashed into concrete. Who the fuck has as their only complaint about someone's comments the mere fact that they said something. No one. You're a fascist piece of shit who can't stand that the hostess has better tolerance against censorship than you do, nursemaid's boy.

Fuck off.

MaxedOutMama said...

He did do it on purpose. Trump is a very good salesman, and he has the skill of getting the point across indirectly by evading the pre-formed mental objection. Of course, his opponents help him do this by leaping joyously into every punch he throws, desperately striving for their own knockout.

We all ought to understand this by now - we've seen him in action for at least a year and a half. He is masterful at moving the centerpoint of public debate. Mostly, he has done so by seeming to lose. He starts with a more extreme position in order to wind up near his final objective.

Trump doesn't want a war, but he knows that unless he seems willing to engage, he has no chance of getting China to really pressure North Korea. Trump DOES want Congress to fund the military more generously. Trump DOES want the leaders of the Philippines, Japan, China and of course Russia to take him seriously in order to gain strength in negotiations.

Trump seems to be very good at walking away from transactions, leaving his opponents feeling the victors, while he has basically gotten 90% of what he wants. This takes planning and strategy. Very often Trump will put himself in the position of seeming the loser in order to get into the winning position.

exiledonmainstreet said...


"I especially like when they got booed off the stage at their town halls. "

Most of whom are liberal plants (truly an apt term since most liberals have the intelligence of broccoli) who don't vote GOP anyway

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/23/town-hall-protests-donald-trump-angry-crowds

eric said...

Right. Hahahaha. Like the way W. "corrected" in 2008

You see? Exhibit A.

You think he is a one off? The only person who could be this silly? I tell you it's common in media and Democrats​ (but I repeat myself.).

The reason doesn't matter. It could literally be anything.

President Trump puts ketchup on his steak, markets tank!

The point is, the markets will tank and Trump will be blamed. Republicans will be blamed. Because people actually believe this stuff.

Drago said...

Kevin: "As far as I know, the US is the only nation that fought a civil war to end slavery. And yes, even if the war was ostensibly about states' rights, the #1 states' right to fight over was slavery.

Every other nation managed to phase out slavery without a civil war. Heck, most Northern states phased out slavery peacefully."

Unfortunately we find our white lefty betters on the Upper West Side fighting the good fight to make sure their own little precious kiddies don't have to attend school with those...other people...if you know what I mean:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2016/06/17/the_upper_west_side_is_new_york_s_latest_school_integration_battleground.html

Remember, it's important that you send your kids to school with MS13 members otherwise you are bigots.

buwaya said...

Further, re the alligator,
It is a comment on the value of, well, reflection.

Sit down, close your eyes, and ask yourself the sort of uncomfortable questions that you would not ask another. And answer them. And reject these answers, seeking better ones.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Inga said...

"Jeeze Inga, why always so angry? Suspect a session of firm, sensuous, massagelike titty twisting, in a kind and loving way, would do much to soften your perspective."

I suspect a good swift kick to your nuts would make you less creepy. I say that with much affection.


Proves my point. Violence is your immediate reaction.Typical leftist attitude,

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/23/town-hall-protests-donald-trump-angry-crowds

Oh, you like the Guardian now? Neato. Didn't they endorse Jeremy Corbin? Pretty left-wing source you're relying on to bash the left and your lack of trust in it.

Anyway, nothing in that article says they weren't constituents. Just says they organized. Nothing wrong with that - you special little flower. Just because the Kochs and Dick Armey funded your little Tea Party operation doesn't mean that the left can't do the same thing, Hypocritical Momma Mainstreat.

buwaya said...

Also, I used the picture I took of Claude, because there was no proper crocodile available.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The point is, the markets will tank and Trump will be blamed. Republicans will be blamed. Because people actually believe this stuff.

Just don't run for office then, if the only thing you believe in is the power of your own ineptitude and how inconsequential you are.

Problem solved.

Just. Stop. Running. For. Office. We saw how much you bitched about the company and the boss on Facebook. After getting drunk.

Inga said...

Full Loony,
You should tell some weirdo to twist your mama's titties, albeit gently, I bet she'd kick him in the nuts too.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."

-- Wait -- why are we holding this against Trump?


Seriously? Not knowing that health care (18% of the economy and pretty much the only part growing jobs) was complicated is not a mark against the man? What would it take to recognize that he is overmatched by the job? There is no possibility that Trump would have bought into Ryan's crazy plan to cut health insurance to give tax cuts to the rich if Trump himself had a grasp on basic policy. Ryan is buying himself a rich payday when he leaves congress. Trump is killing his presidency before it even begins for no good reason.

Michael K said...

Ritmo is auditioning for the Stephen Colbert show.

I have better things to do.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Tripled the Dow, cut unemployment in half, saved the country from a depression."

-- ... Do people really believe this?

"Not knowing that health care (18% of the economy and pretty much the only part growing jobs) was complicated is not a mark against the man?"

-- If you look at the context, he's talking about getting things through Congress. But, you don't care and just want to hate him, so I shouldn't waste time with you guys.

buwaya said...

"Just because the Kochs and Dick Armey funded your little Tea Party operation"

For what its worth, most certainly not those I happened to attend back in 2009-10.
Purely locals, substantial people, local small business, parents from the School Board meetings, etc.

exiledonmainstreet said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FullMoon said...

Inga said...

Full Loony,
You should tell some weirdo to twist your mama's titties, albeit gently, I bet she'd kick him in the nuts too.

5/3/17, 7:33 PM


Whether insult, or humor, very poor attempt.. College educated, right?

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Unfortunately we find our white lefty betters on the Upper West Side fighting the good fight to make sure their own little precious kiddies don't have to attend school with those...other people...if you know what I mean"

Well, come now, let's not be unreasonable. Those other people are supposed to be attending school in places like the Bronx. Places where deplorables live. They can't put them in class with the little snowflakes - the snowflakes have to get into Harvard!

Where the darlings will learn all about how wonderful diversity is.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I have better things to do.

Which is why you have to announce it here.

Let me give you a hint, wrinkledick. When you're gone permanently, no one here will miss you.

Now go run along to your nursemaid.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"For what its worth, most certainly not those I happened to attend back in 2009-10.
Purely locals, substantial people, local small business, parents from the School Board meetings, etc."

True of the ones I went to back in the early days as well.

Lyle Smith said...

The problem with this is the war wasn't inevitable and Civill War scholars argue such. Interestingly many progressives are ignorant of history.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Well, come now, let's not be unreasonable. Those other people are supposed to be attending school in places like the Bronx. Places where deplorables live. They can't put them in class with the little snowflakes - the snowflakes have to get into Harvard!

Hi, I'm from Wisconsin and achievement really bothers me! Why can't people be simple and enjoy the things that no one else is flocking to? Who says milking cows and wearing braids doesn't make you worldly enough to understand how to run a country?! Milkmaids and cheeseheads be wanting to feel important too, and if it takes a phony billionaire five-times bankrupted con man to sell us this delusional self-perception, so be it!

MaxedOutMama said...

Trump's greatest advantage is that he is not striving to get ego-strokes. He's striving to win. Doesn't anybody recognize the lesson of all the bankruptcies? Trump saw that coming - he prepared for it - and in the end, he walked away with a lot of money each time, that had been carefully shifted into other legal buckets. He runs scared and always prepares himself an exit, or two, or three, and he looks way down the road to make sure he's in the right place when he gets to the curve. He's anything but impulsive.

Just look at what he has achieved on immigration. The crackdown on criminal illegal immigrants has huge support. The influx of new immigrants is rapidly dropping. He has gotten the courts to issue several rulings so odd that he will eventually wind up in a strong position at the SC if he does have to push something there. And don't think he's not capable of setting himself up that way - he is joyously taunting the Ninth Circuit into making serious legal mistakes. That recent ruling on the EO re the sanctuary cities was either about nothing, or it forbade the president from issuing an order to his subordinates to follow the laws that Congress has passed. That's the type of thing that the SC will slap down with force.

exiledonmainstreet said...


"Oh, you like the Guardian now? Neato. Didn't they endorse Jeremy Corbin?"

No. I posted that link because I knew you wouldn't accept a link from a right wing paper like the Washington Times as proof. (I do the same. I laugh when Inga posts links to Slate or Politico.) The British press reported that they were leftist plants, as did conservative sites here.

You know who somehow forgot to mention that? Most of the American media. Gee, I wonder why?

I also wonder why GOP voters, who have detested Ocare from day 1, would suddenly rise up in anger at the prospect of repealing it? That really makes sense.

harrogate said...

If a war breaks out in the future, some 15 years after Trump's death, then it won't have been his fault!

Sad!

eric said...

For what its worth, most certainly not those I happened to attend back in 2009-10.
Purely locals, substantial people, local small business, parents from the School Board meetings, etc.


Facebook reminded me last week about this time. Pictures with me and my kids and my wife. We made our own signs and had a pretty good, happy time, with a bunch of strangers. Our pictures are all smiles. There was no violence. We were happy warriors.

Sadly, we didn't get paid. No one even offered to pay us. We had to drive ourselves to the protest. Wish I'd known it was all funded by the kochs. I missed out on my money. Darn it!

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Milkmaids and cheeseheads be wanting to feel important too"

Why that's very mean thing to say about Althouse and Inga!

It's wonderful you want to hang out at a milkmaid's blog and shoot the shit with us. Puts me in mind of Marie Antoinette putting on rags to go play at being a peasant.

Ritmo, truly you are a Man of the People!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Methinks some counter-revolutionary needs to brush up on her definition of the word, "plant:"

But here’s the thing: the crowds are unmistakably real, and the anger runs deep.

I like when Ryan said that the 24 million about to be priced out of the insurance market were looking forward to their newfound "freedom" (from affordable access to care).

Just feel free to let us know when you think they all just want to die.

Chuck said...

I wanted to add one thing, and it is a rather obvious one.

When Trump says, "We have to do it. We have no choice," Trump is not doing any calculating about war and peace or historical leadership decisions.

When Trump says, "We have to do it. We have no choice," it is one of Trump's many verbal tics. And he's got a lot of them. But we could do a word search of Trump's interviews and speeches for years and we'd find that phrase repeating again and again.

We had no choice but to eradicate ISIS. We had no choice but to build a border wall. We had no choice but to repeal and replace Obamacare.

Trump's verbal tic of saying "We have to do it, we have no choice," is very similar to (and may be the same psychopathology) as his tic of repeating himself:

http://americablog.com/2016/05/whats-trumps-weird-repetitive-stutter.html

So if anybody wants to read any larger, deeper meaning into Trump's saying "We have to do it, we have no choice," that's it as far as I am concerned. Another one of his verbal tics, that might make for some very interesting psychoanalysis but isn't reflective of anything, from the perspective of the history of American leadership.

Inga said...

I also post links from Red State and Washington Times. A safe link is to The Hill, which I most often use. I laugh at Exile's comments which often sound as if she's sitting behind Rush Limbaugh's microphone, while diddling him.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Ritmo, truly you are a Man of the People!

I'm just a person who doesn't have time to waste worrying about why any one area of the country needs to feel more important than the others.

But hopefully you can one day run droopy eyes Walker for national office. That will be inspiring!

Hagar said...

It is not about war being inevitable, but that it any of the situations mentioned above, it is well if the other side at the table believes that, yes, this guy really will go to war if we push him too far.

Especially after Obama, whom no one would believe after all his missed "red lines," etc., but they did believe about Jackson, with respect to both warring and hanging people that crossed him.

eric said...


Just don't run for office then, if the only thing you believe in is the power of your own ineptitude and how inconsequential you are.

Problem solved.

Just. Stop. Running. For. Office.


And you might wonder why. Why tank the markets? Everyone suffers if you tank the market. This is why. To create this perception. To make you stop running for office.

Republicans tank the markets. Democrats grow the markets. It's the economy​ stupid!

This is why I say invest wisely. Because you can be sure the media and the Democrats will do everything they can to help tank the markets so that they can blame the Republicans.

And the solution? Convince Republicans to stop running.

Clever. Will it work? I dunno. But that's another story. Just take your profits now out of the markets before it's too late.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Facebook reminded me last week about this time. Pictures with me and my kids and my wife. We made our own signs and had a pretty good, happy time, with a bunch of strangers. Our pictures are all smiles. There was no violence. We were happy warriors."

What? You didn't break any windows? Scream obscenities? Or hit anyone over the head with a bike lock? Didn't throw poop at anyone? You just stood there with homemade signs?

Jeez, that doesn't rise to Ritmo's idea of a protest. That peaceful bullshit is so bourgeois. To be a real protester you have to at least pepper spray someone, or punch an elderly man.

Just make sure you wear a mask. You don't want mom and dad to see you.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Convince Republicans to stop running.

Clever. Will it work?


Who knows?

But the people have to know that their hiring committee is being duped every time it offers the job to the goons who complain about how much they hate the company and how incompetent they think it is destined to forever be.

Never offer the job to people who openly declare how instrinsically corrupt and corrupting they find the job to be.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Jeez, that doesn't rise to Ritmo's idea of a protest. That peaceful bullshit is so bourgeois. To be a real protester you have to at least pepper spray someone, or punch an elderly man.

Yes! Clearly the more noble form of protest is to kill 24 million of your fellow countrymen by pricing them out of access to medical coverage. That's the decent, responsible and mature thing to do.

Or pretend that you're providing a single job by cheapening a CEO's clean-up costs for polluting mountain streams.

That takes class.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga said...
I also post links from Red State and Washington Times. A safe link is to The Hill, which I most often use. I laugh at Exile's comments which often sound as if she's sitting behind Rush Limbaugh's microphone, while diddling him."

You only wish you had someone to diddle, Inga. The twat hat is for advertising your wares, I assume. Luckily,that Republican plumber realized he was with a dimwit and ran the hell away as fast as he could.

Drago said...

"lifelong republican" and Noted Mind Reader Chuck: "When Trump says, "We have to do it. We have no choice," Trump is not doing any calculating about war and peace or historical leadership decisions."

For a guy who can read minds, he doesn't do so well predicting voter preferences.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"When you're gone permanently, no one here will miss you."

In fact he's probably better off leaving sooner than later.

At some point it'll stop being funny to see him repeatedly declaring that it's sleepy time or libs made him tired or time is short or so on.

There are two reasons for this:

a) the repetition

b) it becomes hard to not focus on the common thread in his comments, re being gone, permanently. I guess that's a thing that golden-yearsers think about. That's SAD!

Drago said...

TTR: "Clearly the more noble form of protest is to kill 24 million of your fellow countrymen by pricing them out of access to medical coverage."

Wow. All 24. In the first year?

Sounds aggressive.

Besides, we'd still be about 40 million deaths behind lefty fav Mao, a guy some of obama's staff members thought quite highly of.

pacwest said...

Hey Toothless,
Any chance I can talk you down off that ledge?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DavidD said...

This sounds like one of Scott Adams's Master Persuader columns.

Will we start getting Altbert cartoons now, too?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Yep. All Americans not voting Republican are really into fat 20th c. Chinese autocrats. I think you think about Mao more than anyone I know.

One year or not, that's a third of the American people it'd be done to. If you think it's a joke, laugh away.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exiledonmainstreet said...

At 7:53 Ritmo wrote:
"I'm just a person who doesn't have time to waste worrying about why any one area of the country needs to feel more important than the others. "

At 7:44 Ritmo wrote: Who says milking cows and wearing braids doesn't make you worldly enough to understand how to run a country?! Milkmaids and cheeseheads be wanting to feel important too"

Look, it's The Two Faces of Ritmo! First there's snotty superior New Yorker Ritmo sneering the flyover proles. Then, viola, just a few minutes, out pops Egalitarian Ritmo "gee, I'm just a guy who's all about equality!"

What a neat trick, completely contradicting yourself in the space of 9 minutes. Truly, you contain multitudes - just like Sybil.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Many of you are assuming that the only way to stop slavery was to go to war.

The slave trade (bringing in new slaves from Africa) was already illegal. Pretty clearly the plantation owners would have been willing to sell their slaves if offered enough money. So obviously there was potential for negotiation. Then combine that with a threat of military force to keep the states from seceding, and you have the carrot and stick that someone referred to above.

The questions would be whether the North would have been willing to pay what it would take, and if the military (which was not especially potent at that point) was enough of a threat. But there is obviously potential.

Have you always been this dense, or is that because of your TDS?

exhelodrvr1 said...

"Clearly the more noble form of protest is to kill 24 million of your fellow countrymen by pricing them out of access to medical coverage."

Think what that would do to our carbon footprint!!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Think what that would do to our carbon footprint!!

Do you often find killing people to be funny?

exiledonmainstreet said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exhelodrvr1 said...

"Do you often find killing people to be funny?"

Just when someone makes up stories about mass killings to try and prove an impossible point.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Look, it's The Two Faces of Ritmo! First there's snotty superior New Yorker Ritmo sneering the flyover proles. Then, viola, just a few minutes, out pops Egalitarian Ritmo "gee, I'm just a guy who's all about equality!"

What a neat trick, completely contradicting yourself in the space of 9 minutes. Truly, you contain multitudes - just like Sybil.


People can make caricatures of whatever they want. New York, Wisconsin. Who cares? What's ridiculous is when you make a cultural chest-beating exercise out of an actual political reality. Trump won the votes of the rust belt. As far as I'm concerned, he had every right to them. As entitled to them as it gets - until they see the fraud he is and how few coal and auto jobs he'll "get" for them. But until that time, yes he campaigned there as he should have and won them fair and square.

But no cares about the rest of that bit. Tourism to Wisconsin will never match that to Times Square, and dairy land might be quaint and the nostalgia for manufacturing jobs sincere and worth taking serious. But you will never be the entertainment, financial or fashion Mecca that Manhattan is.

Respect differences. It's a big country. If you want those factory laborers respected I'd say you're not going to make that happen by pretending that you can write New York off the map, or by pretending that your state has to offer America the things that they're superior than your state at.

Just give up the civil war mentality. Respect differences and take the geographical chip off your shoulder.

Clark said...

Thank you, @Sebastian. I have been around long enough that I should have figured that one out!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Just when someone makes up stories about mass killings to try and prove an impossible point.

Oh, so impossible. Do you find actuarial statistics hard?

If you think the tens of millions newly insured by the ACA wouldn't lose coverage if it were repealed, then you're not worth debating. You must be one of those people who thinks budgets are meaningless and that tax cuts pay for themselves.

Come back when you decide to get serious.

Lem said...

Hey, I stumbled into the right answer, didn't I.

Lem said...
Trump got people who are always against War (no matter what) to argue that there are wars that are... gasp... inevitable.

Althouse is right. The future Trump conflict peace-nicks are on the record arguing some conflicts cannot be resolved peacefully.
5/3/17, 1:57 PM


Lem said...
Feigned ignorance is irresistible bait. I guess that's what they mean by derangement syndrome. You don't see what should be obvious.
5/3/17, 2:01 PM

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga seems quite concerned with diddling tonight. Clearly, the pussy hat alone is not helping much. Maybe if you deck yourself out in a pink vulva dress, as is very popular among feminists these days, it'll work.

Darling, it's YOU!

exhelodrvr1 said...

Aw, Toothy, it's so cute the way you follow the script! I bet your commissar is so proud!!

traditionalguy said...

Our wealth was created during the PAX Americana that lasted 60 years. It was based on technically superior Military readiness, strong alliances, and a Hegemon's willingness to fight to enforce the PAX.

Then along came Obama and intentionally wiped it all out.

Now along comes Trump and he is resurrecting it again with a Jacksonian resolve to win.

It is obvious to clear thinkers like Professor Althouse that recreating Pax through strength requires a great communicator of the USA's willingness to fight again.

So that is exactly what DGT is doing.

It's time now to award Professor Althouse Tenure in the Trump War College.

themightypuck said...

There is an official version of history and spitballing by the powerful is very dangerous.

Rance Fasoldt said...

This reminds me of how the critics used to disparage Reagan for reading rrom 3 x 5 cards that had been prepared for him. Then a young black liberal researcher working on a book at the Reagan Library, when she discovered, to her amazement, al the background work that Reagan had done. She knew that was the case, because his work was written in his own hand. He had studied more areas than any previous president. The intellectual class always underestimated Reagan, because of the prednudice against him. Ditto with Trump.

FullMoon said...


Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Just when someone makes up stories about mass killings to try and prove an impossible point.

Oh, so impossible. Do you find actuarial statistics hard?

If you think the tens of millions newly insured by the ACA wouldn't lose coverage if it were repealed, then you're not worth debating. You must be one of those people who thinks budgets are meaningless and that tax cuts pay for themselves.

Come back when you decide to get serious.



Losing insurance means losing access to medical care?

Aside from accidental and criminal death, more insure people in US die than uninsured.

Drago said...

TTR: "One year or not, that's a third of the American people it'd be done to. If you think it's a joke, laugh away."

I would have to agree that over the course of "One year or not", let's call it 80 years, not just those 24 million will die but many millions more will as well, because republicans.

And why is it my fault that obama staffers liked Mao?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Ten percent, not a third.

You can get cute quibbling over timelines all you want. Do you want to see them priced out of the market or not?

Avoiding the serious questions like these is what led to Trump in the first place. Come on, we all know deep down you're really a party guy.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"we all know deep down you're really a party guy."

Right, it's really deep. So hard to suss it out.

Ha.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

It's hard to figure out where the chief of the LifeLong-R-PD is coming from.

Got it.

roesch/voltaire said...

What hight flown BS by Althouse. Trump knows that 13 Southern States gave him almost 2/3rds of the votes in the electoral college and this is just another pander to the Southern base which, along with his appointees from the South, can keep him in office;.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"But you will never be the entertainment, financial or fashion Mecca that Manhattan is. "

Of course not. I wasn't arguing that, was I?

What on earth does that have to do with the fact that well-heeled Upper West Side parents who vote Dem and faithfully read the NY Times don't want minority kids and immigrants in their own children's classrooms?

When the Southies of Boston protested busing in the '70's, the Times portrayed them as Neanderthals with ear-splitting accents. Christopher Lasch, one of the few leftist writers I admire, called the upper class progressives out on that one in his book "The True and Only Heaven." The nice upper class NY progressives are basically doing the same thing and you deflect by saying I'm jealous of New Yorkers or something.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Trump knows that 13 Southern States gave him almost 2/3rds of the votes in the electoral college and this is just another pander to the Southern base"

That's a fair trade for them get kicked in the teeth re policy.

Drago said...

TTR: "You can get cute quibbling over timelines all you want. Do you want to see them priced out of the market or not?"

Are we pretending that obamacare premiums and deductables didn't price people out of the market?

One of the more powerful political factors in this years elections were how many people couldn't make use of their obamacare insurance due to the deductables.

So, its perfectly fair to talk about impacts regarding policy but context might be important as well.

In any event, I doubt much will change after the House dumps whatever final form of a bill passes into the Senate. And then, we'd still have the senate markup as well as reconciliation. So any estimates of impacts at this point is academic until we get to an actual bill that will pass out of both chambers.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"But you will never be the entertainment, financial or fashion Mecca that Manhattan is. "

Of course not. I wasn't arguing that, was I?

What on earth does that have to do with the fact that well-heeled Upper West Side parents who vote Dem and faithfully read the NY Times don't want minority kids and immigrants in their own children's classrooms?

When the Southies of Boston protested busing in the '70's, the Times portrayed them as Neanderthals with ear-splitting accents. Christopher Lasch, one of the few leftist writers I admire, called the upper class progressives out on that one in his book "The True and Only Heaven." The nice upper class NY progressives are basically doing the same thing and you deflect by saying I'm jealous of New Yorkers or something.


Your obsession with New York is of course its own deflection as Kansas, Wisconsin and other red states find new and more creative ways to impoverish themselves. Yes, I suppose you must be desperate to think that Trump will be the blue collar warrior to rescue these red and reddish purple states from the war on their own poor.

Stop fixating on race. That's old news. Pedophile apologist Bruno Snuffleupagus told me so. You're pro-PC one day, anti- the next. Just stop the schizophrenia and settle on one thing to be pretend-outraged for a minute first before moving onto the next fake outrage. Your fake outrages are almost too quick and opportunistic to keep up with!

Drago said...

exiled: "When the Southies of Boston protested busing in the '70's, the Times portrayed them as Neanderthals with ear-splitting accents."

Well, they did turn over and burn school buses there.

Besides, I like NYC. I especially appreciate how the upper west siders are modeling the very behavior that is assigned by those same folks to all the deplorables!

Perhaps an honorary membership in The Deplorables is in the offing for our NYers.

Now that I think about it, that might be the only "award" not given to Chelsea yet!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Are we pretending that obamacare premiums and deductables didn't price people out of the market?

Not nearly as many as it priced into it. Nets and margins and such being what they are.

Drago said...

TTR: "Not nearly as many as it priced into it."

Well, I wouldn't exactly call those folks who are getting large subsidies "priced into it". More like, "given", which would be far more accurate considering its welfare.

Which I'm not necessarily opposed to but we ought to call things what they are just for the sake of clarity.

For instance, if the republicans are looking to maintain the high risk pools and if they are going to continue pre-existing conditions, (and it appears they are) then that "ain't" insurance, it's welfare, which will have to be subsidized sometimes up to 100%.

Again, lets just be clear about what we are talking about.

And come on TTR, you know those upper west sidies are pulling a racial fast one here. You ought to be giving them a hard time.

Drago said...

How'd we get here, btw, from a Civil War allusion which is being assumed to mean a Trump crackdown on sanctuary cities?

exiledonmainstreet said...


"Your obsession with New York"

WTF? I pointed out a story Drago linked to (I posted the link yesterday) and that means I'm "obsessed" with NYC? How do you reach the conclusions you reach?

Like I said the other day, you put words in people's mouths they never said and then argue against their non-existent positions.

traditionalguy said...

The British seem to have lost a Royal, perhaps Prince Phillip or Elizabeth Herself.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Stop fixating on race."

Tell that to your fellow New Yorkers there on the Upper West Side. They seem pretty fixated on it.

FullMoon said...

roesch/voltaire said...

What hight flown BS by Althouse. Trump knows that 13 Southern States gave him almost 2/3rds of the votes in the electoral college and this is just another pander to the Southern base which, along with his appointees from the South, can keep him in office;.

5/3/17, 8:45 PM


Winning politics. Trump smarter than expected.

I Callahan said...

Let me give you a hint, wrinkledick. When you're gone permanently, no one here will miss you. Now go run along to your nursemaid.

Ann - honestly, why do you let this POS comment here still? Did you rescind all of those rules you used to have here?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

...your fellow New Yorkers...

I don't live in New York. But I've been to Harlem. Interesting how interesting a place Harlemites have made of the place and done for themselves. But I guess that, as with the white New Yorkers, that's just how it goes.

As opposed to WI, where there's equal opportunity racial misery/mediocrity.

Any other caricatures to make yourself feel better about? I forgot how awesome it was to be black and American and living in flyover land.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Did you rescind all of those rules you used to have here?

She probably doesn't have time to pay to a whiny little screecher who goes, "I'm leaving everybody!" every five minutes.

But lucky for him, you do. Are you both in the over-70 demographic? Was it his formative years with a nursemaid that you sympathized with?

Do tell. Maybe you're just another geezer who also thinks anyone here cares if you stay or go, let alone have the entitlement to actually announce it.

Drago said...

TTR: " I forgot how awesome it was to be black and American and living in flyover land."

Well, since you brought it up, I ought to point out that Lebron passed Kareem in career playoff points scored.

That's not too shabby, and thats in Cleveland. Cleveland!

Drago said...

TTR: "Are you both in the over-70 demographic?"

I'm not. But a man can dream, can't he?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Ritmo, it's touching how quickly you spring to the defense of rich racist white people who don't want their darlings in school with the colored folk.

I didn't think you had it in you, but I suppose as long as they vote democrat, you're willing to overlook these little foibles.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Most of the blacks who live in flyover land live in Democrat-controlled cities.

I agree - it's not very pleasant to be a black on the South Side of Chicago.

Who's the mayor again?

Drago said...

exiledonmainstreet: "Ritmo, it's touching how quickly you spring to the defense of rich racist white people who don't want their darlings in school with the colored folk."


Samantha Bee and her husband are fighting tooth and nail to not have their kids attend school with the wrong sort. Which is a nice bookend sort of thing with that attack on the kid with the "nazi haircut", who was actually a liberal guy just covering a conservative event who also happened to be dealing with brain cancer.

Good stuff all around there.

John said...

Blogger James K said...

This inevitability only applies to that specific war, at least the historians seem to say. They wouldn't say it about WWI, and since WWII grew out of WWI....

Quite right, James. We had no dog in either fight and the American people were strongly against our involvement. But Wilson and, to an even greater extent FDR, kept poking the Germans with a stick until they were pretty much forced to declare war against us. (How many attacks on German Subs by the US Navy and Army Air Corps do you think the Germans could afford to ignore)

Both ran on platforms of "They kept us out of war" and both dragged us kicking and screaming into it.

It is not a stretch to say that Wilson is the single person most responsible for WWII or that he is responsible for prolonging the human suffering of WWI by a year or more.

War is not inevitable. Neither WWs nor the War Between the States. Had we simply let the south secede, as I think they had every right to do, there might have potentially been war over Kansas or the like. Or we might have worked that out too.

Presidents like wars, much as they claim to detest them, because it seals their places in history.

I hope that President Trump will be different. I hope that he can intimidate NK with a show of force and the story that "HE IS JUST CRAZY ENOUGH TO NUKE THE WHOLE OF NK ON A FIRST STRIKE!!!!" Perhaps he can outcrazy Kim and cool things down.

I certainly don't want him to and doubt he is. It certainly doesn't help to have others, inside and out of the US think so.

"The men charged with a comprehensive examination of U.S. policy toward Vietnam were planning for failure." HR McMaster writing in 1998. Currently President Trump's National Security Advisor

"But once war is forced upon us, there is no other alternative than to apply every available means to bring it to a swift end.

War's very object is victory, not prolonged indecision.

In war there is no substitute for victory."

General of the Army Douglas MacArthur shortly after Truman, deciding that there was a substitute for victory, fired him.

John Henry

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Oh right. Lebron.

Most of the blacks who live in flyover land live in Democrat-controlled cities.

I agree - it's not very pleasant to be a black on the South Side of Chicago.


The devil's in the demographics. If Republicans weren't representing cunty white closed-minded dildos, and had more socially open, tolerant and economically diverse communities, perhaps they might attract a black person or two to live there.

Until then, I don't care what you have to say with your concern trolling about race issues in NYC. The idea that flyover land gets these things more right is so laughably obtuse that I just assume it's another one of those things that you don't believe and just say anyway.

There are enough other things to worry about, you Republican SJW.

exiledonmainstreet said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Fix your own broken communities, Rust Belt Warrior.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Drago, I somehow suspect that Ritmo's reaction wouldn't be so indifferent if those parents lived in, say, Savannah or Houston.

Speaking of which, I've traveled around the South a bit and it struck me that their cities are far more integrated these days than Northern cities are.

I know an elderly black man who is making preparations to move back to his native Mississippi when he retires. He doesn't seem to be afraid of the KKK or all those scary Trump voters running around down there.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Speaking of which, I've traveled around the South a bit and it struck me that their cities are far more integrated these days than Northern cities are.

Oh, how nice and generous of them... especially seeing as how they were the fuckwads who brought race problems to America in the first place.

The south has no choice but to integrate, Brainiac. They have states that are 30% black.

What do you want credit for next? Entering the stone age?

exiledonmainstreet said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Fix your own broken communities, Rust Belt Warrior."

Oh, my own community is in clover. No worries here.

As far as the cities go - well, tough to fix when they're all run by Democrats and have been for decades.

As far as "concern trolling" I'm just holding you to your own standards. I see now that they are very selective and don't apply to rich Democrats.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Oh, how nice and generous of them... especially seeing as how they were the fuckwads who brought race problems to America in the first place."

Well, actually, New England slave traders had a lot to do with that too.

Like the founder of Yale university, for instance.

chickelit said...

I Callahan said...Ann - honestly, why do you let this POS comment here still? Did you rescind all of those rules you used to have here?

I suspect it's the same sort of passive collusion she had with Crack a few years back -- letting him drive off all sorts people for months because there was something about him that she was afraid of offending.

Maybe she's waiting for R&B to implode.

Just my $0.02

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Just my $0.02

Given your social ineptitude and the ridiculous chip you've carried on your shoulder against me for years, I'd have to wonder if that's denominated in Japanese Yen or some similarly devalued currency.

Other than that, how are the blog posts going at Lem's, cuckenlittle?! Are you still getting like a grand total of two comments per chemistry post or music video? Including the comments you add to it yourself?

I've never seen someone so innocent-sounding be such a bitchy, vindictive twat as you've been. Go defend the angry immigrant and leave me alone.

Char Char Binks said...

To anyone who doesn't believe the right man with the right strength can change the course of history, I have three words for you: John Wilkes Booth

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

As far as the cities go - well, tough to fix when they're all run by Democrats and have been for decades.

And they will be for the foreseeable future. Republicans are anti-social mammonites who look down on the poor and see poverty as a moral failing, who never grow economies other than temporary, unstable bubbles, and who view the wealth gaps, the divides they create between between rich and poor, as the only way to measure their success.

They're social darwinists who hate infrastructure and are therefore unfit to run the "polis."

Come on. You know you don't want to. You can't even run rural government. This is just another one of those chips on your shoulder. You want to improve people's lives through government as much as mosquitoes want to be vegetarians. Just stop lying.

As far as "concern trolling" I'm just holding you to your own standards.

You wouldn't have to do that if you had your own standards. But I guess that's hard when you're a card-carrying member of the Troll Party of No Principles.

I see now that they are very selective and don't apply to rich Democrats.

You're in the majority nearly everywhere federally. The fact that you're obsessed with Democrats shows how much you well expect to have nothing to show for it as long as it lasts.

Drago said...

TTR: "The south has no choice but to integrate, Brainiac. They have states that are 30% black."

With more moving back from north and the west all the time, and its been going on for some time.

I wonder why that is?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/16/in-a-reversal-more-blacks-moving-back-to-south/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/us/25south.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/0316/Why-African-Americans-are-moving-back-to-the-South

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-nielsen-blacks-report-0928-biz-20150925-story.html

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0501-renn-reverse-great-migration-20160501-story.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/02/census-great-migration-reversal/21818127/

Drago said...

Perhaps the African-Americans in the North and West who migrate South feel as though "We have to do it/We have no choice"?

Drago said...

TTR: "You're in the majority nearly everywhere federally. The fact that you're obsessed with Democrats shows how much you well expect to have nothing to show for it as long as it lasts."

Well, a majority in a majority of the states as well.

As far as fearing we might have nothing to show for it, not a chance.

Fearing we might not get as much out of it as we would like? That would be 100% correct. but only 100%. I refuse to offer up more.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"The fact that you're obsessed with Democrats"

Christ, is "obsessed" Ritmo's word of the day?

I bring up a NY story "You're obsessed with New York."

I mention the inconvenient truth that all those floundering Rust Belt cities are under complete Democrat control "You're obsessed with Democrats!"

To mention something, is, in Ritmo's mind, to have an obsession with it. Especially if you're bringing up a fact he doesn't want to face.

chickelit said...

Other than that, how are the blog posts going at Lem's, cuckenlittle?! Are you still getting like a grand total of two comments per chemistry post or music video? Including the comments you add to it yourself?

Hmmm, the last blog post of yours I recall reading -- Dichotomies (ca. 2010) -- had comments made only by you and by Inga.

We used to be able to look that up.

Michael K said...

Maybe you're just another geezer who also thinks anyone here cares if you stay or go, let alone have the entitlement to actually announce it.

Hilarious. I would guess that most here wish you would go to Daily Kos or some other snakepit where you would fit in.

It is interesting to think about why Ann tolerates you here. The other blogs where I spend more time would not put up with you.

Not that you are a leftist but that you are a child.

Goodnight.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"then that "ain't" insurance, it's welfare, which will have to be subsidized sometimes up to 100%.

Again, lets just be clear about what we are talking about."

But welfare for who?

Nice of the gov to pickup the tab to insure expensive folks, leaving the profitable clients for the private insurers.

I guess that's invisible hand Reagan Rand capitalism at it's best.

Got it.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Late night for the Doc.

Sleepy time alert countdown starts now.

Place your bets.

I got 47 minutes and 18 seconds.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

We used to be able to look that up.

Yeah. Because unlike you, I abandon experiments when they stop working. And it also wasn't a group blog.

Yourself? There aren't enough walls apparently for you to bang your head against.

But the issue is simple. You never used to be such a bitchy little vengeance-mongerer. This jihad of yours against me has been a long time in brewing, and I really wonder where you think you're going to go with it.

Maybe it will be as successful as your war against your California senators.

I think you're just someone who has a need for enemies, but no clue on how to choose the right ones.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "Nice of the gov to pickup the tab to insure expensive folks, leaving the profitable clients for the private insurers."

Actually, the subsidized clients are also going thru the private insurers.

3rdgrader: "I guess that's invisible hand Reagan Rand capitalism at it's best."

Do you always insist on self-refuting within the same blog post?

You should wait for a couple postings before you do that to create more suspense. That is something that Laslo understands and exploits effectively. But then, he is clever.

exiledonmainstreet said...

As for the Royal Family, I don't see anything on any website about it.

Maybe Charles got his head stuck in the banister.

Drago said...

TTR: "Yourself? There aren't enough walls apparently for you to bang your head against."

Trump will fix that amigo!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Actually, Michael K. has made some excellent book recommendations and I've followed up with a few. I just finished "Paris in the Terror" and I thought it was excellent.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Not that you are a leftist but that you are a child.

It must take one to know one, nursemaid boy.

BTW, nice job trying to speak for Ann. I think she's smart and independent enough to know what she's doing without your "help." Or more properly, your kindergarten level plea for intervention. ("So-and-so was mean to me!")

Goodnight.

Oh fuck. Another taunt. i never tire of believing that one day you'll actually mean it.

Drago said...

Laslo ought to memorialize 3rdgraders silly attempts to mimic him by posting a "Day In The Life Of Laslo's Ill-Prepared And Sadly Untalented Apprentice".

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Yes Drago,

I'm mistaken to claim that biz sucking the gov tit is a perversion of the InvHandReagRand stuff.

Silly me. I forgot that now, in the DJT era, that's true conservatism.

Thanks for settin' me right.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "I'm mistaken to claim that biz sucking the gov tit is a perversion of the InvHandReagRand stuff."

You didn't claim it was a perversion.

Quite the opposite.

But I get it: you intend to set a Guinness Record for Self-Refutation record and are finding even more compact and concise ways to do it.

I congratulate you on your tenacity in that endeavor. Truly.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Perhaps the African-Americans in the North and West who migrate South feel as though "We have to do it/We have no choice"?

Who knows? I guess they felt the opposite way a century ago during the great migration north.

But I admit I'm not the expert on this. You'll have to ask mainstreet for that one. She's the resident go-to white expert on people-of-color, at least she is tonight. On this blog.

She's like the Rachel Dolezal of the evening.

It's very righteous concern trolling.

exiledonmainstreet said...

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Late night for the Doc.

Sleepy time alert countdown starts now."

It's enjoyable for you to make fun of elderly people, I see. You also like mocking the poor.

You must have been a real charmer as a child, tormenting smaller kids, laughing at the one who wore hand-me-downs, pulling the wings off flies.

Drago said...

TTR: "She's like the Rachel Dolezal of the evening."

Now now. I fear it would not take much to send dear Rachel right over the edge.

Drago said...

You know, it's almost as if there was a Civil War on this thread and I'm telling you it doesn't have to be that way.

I feel it's time I step into the breach and do something about this!!

Years from now people will look back to this moment and understand that this was the moment when the rise of the Anger began to slow and our body politic began to heal.

You're welcome.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Drago said...
Laslo ought to memorialize 3rdgraders silly attempts to mimic him by posting a "Day In The Life Of Laslo's Ill-Prepared And Sadly Untalented Apprentice".

Oh, I believe he's already parodied 3rd grader.

And Chuck. But Ritmo has had the (dubious) honor of inspiring not one but two Laslo parodies: The Ruthless Umlaut and the Angry Commenter Speaks to His Psychiatrist.

That's an achievement of sorts. An entirely negative one, but hey...

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

So Drago is against the gov using our tax dough to pump up insurance co profits. Would rather make sure that tax dollars going to medical care was spent as efficiently as possible.

Wonder what that means?


Golly, ya better think a couple steps down the line next time. Ya could even consider doing it all the time.

Just sayin'

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Sleepy time alert countdown starts now."

It's enjoyable for you to make fun of elderly people, I see.


Jesus - FUCK! Can you not see how much he does to bring it on himself? He's like the most entitled old person I've ever run across. Most seniors have the self-respect not to impose on others as much as that goat does. But perhaps he learned it in childhood - with the nursemaid. Old habits die hard.

No one here is required to treat that horny tumbleweed any better than he treats anyone else. The guy's got no self-respect with the sheer amount of imposition he oppresses us with. Age is no excuse for his entitled tantrums.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

BTW,

I hope folks will point out especially interesting Laslo stuff.

I don't see the fascination, so I only take a look when Mock is all excited about a particular posting.

OTOH, I do read what y'all write. Not sure you'd take that as a compliment, considering the source.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Years from now people will look back to this moment and understand that this was the moment when the rise of the Anger began to slow and our body politic began to heal.

I agree.

So do 97% of commenters.

exiledonmainstreet said...


"She's like the Rachel Dolezal of the evening."

Hey, I'm thinking about it. Go to the tanning salon, get a wig, apply for a job at the NAACP, tell people I'm really black deep down in my soul. It not only worked for Rachel (for a while, anyway), look what becoming black has done for the career of Shaun King:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-lives-matter-activist-shaun-king-white-article-1.2330658

Lots of moola to be made in the racial grievance industry! Just ask Jesse Jackson!

At the very least, maybe I can do the fake Indian thing, like Lizzy Warren. I've got the cheekbones too. And a traditional Indian recipe for linguine and clam sauce, passed on by my Choctaw ancestors.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Can you not see how much he does to bring it on himself?"

For me it's not that he's old. It's that he thinks anyone gives any Fs when he goes to sleep.

Can you imagine if everyone here was constantly announcing meta info re their temporal cognitive state?

A bit of that here or there, and w/ some variation of expression is normal. But, the Doc's never ending updates re all sorts of stuff is really funny, imho. Plus he makes comments responding to folks by saying he's not responding to these folks.

Hilarious.

CuznDon said...

Was Trump Right on the Civil War and Andrew Jackson? https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/25939-was-trump-right-on-the-civil-war-and-andrew-jackson

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