April 2, 2017

"The whole notion of 'macho' and 'manliness' has eluded me all my life."

"I have divided my working life between construction and teaching primary grade's. I'm sure at times when I was hauling 2x8s up a ladder to frame a building I gave this some thought but I honestly have found my best, most manly self when some kindy or 1st grade boy student — likely missing their divorced or otherwise absent father — snuggles against me at story time and lays their little hand on my hairy arm. Recently another kindergarten teacher came into the class I was subbing in and told me her whole class was jealous because my class had a 'boy teacher.' Boiled down, are you man enough to show a child about manhood? If so, you are doing alright."

Wrote Mark Schlemmer or Portland, Oregon in the comments section at the NYT for the Frank Bruni column — "Manhood in the Age of Trump" — that I blogged 2 posts down.

I liked this comment and hope you see what's good about it. I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say. 

163 comments:

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say."

You're underestimating your commenters.

They'll say all sorts of terribly cynical things about all sorts of things. The focus won't be as narrow as you're anticipating.

Duh.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

The apples don't fall far from the tree.

Ken B said...

I am going to say a cynical thing about men who don't go into teaching. I don't blame them. We live in Salem where all accusations are believed. Especially against men who like children.

wendybar said...

I'm a victim too, I'm a victim too...Look at me!! I'm a victim too!! (That's what I got out of reading the article.)

Brian A Davis said...

Tip of the day: Don't take advice about manliness, from a man, who willingly eats shit out of another man's ass.

David Begley said...

"teaching primary grade's (sic)." Educator doesn't know the difference plural and possessive but I will allow for autocorrext error.

Unknown said...

"What's important, I think, is for individuals to find a way to live a good and satisfying life." Said a wise person.

Fernandinande said...

some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children,

A guy has to be pretty ballsy to teach young kids in today's "all men are rapists" atmosphere.

I tend to make fun of the 'masculinity' stuff because the things which make up a good person don't differ that much between the sexes.

Bay Area Guy said...

Great comment above, thanks Althouse. Definitely need more male teachers in the early grades to counter the big Left-wing push to feminize all young boys.

Michael K said...

i would not dream of teaching elementary school although, perhaps, in a private school. My youngest daughter's favorite teacher was a man who taught eighth grade at her private school. His wife was also a teacher there.

buwaya said...

Ken B is correct.
@25 years of experience with schools in San Francisco. We have dealt with a great number of teachers, and spoken with even more.
I HAVE seen some men in K-5, and even in day care, so it does happen. This is much more likely in private schools though.
It may be the place or the sample size, but the male teachers in younger grades are rather effeminate. Maybe its my bias, or perhaps its this town, but I dont think so.
There is a strange dynamic going on, where there is a pro-male bias, male teachers are in demand indeed, but conversely there is a seeming consensus among female teachers that rejects them, in the public schools. Female teachers tend not to get along with male teachers and administrators, usually ex-teachers, avoid hiring them.
And then there is the legal risk, which is a common perception among male teachers, though more so in middle and high schools.
I am just one observer, so take this as a data point.

Laslo Spatula said...

"...snuggles against me at story time and lays their little hand on my hairy arm."

My cynicism is that this sort of behavior will sadly cause him accusations and trouble at some point.

Lawsuit Society says men cannot touch young children.

Lawsuit Society also says you cannot persecute NAMBLA.

So: young boys raised in a State of Cognitive Dissonance.

Cognitive Dissonance makes Pajama Boys.

Pajama Boys become SJW lawyers.

Lawsuit Society continues Onward.

I am Laslo.





Fernandinande said...

NASA released a ton of masculine software for free and here’s some you should try

Hardware is more masculine than software.

Carol said...

We had some real manly teachers when I was in second and third grade, in the early 1950s. But they were just GI Bill guys on their way to being principals.

Mark O said...

I come from a family of male educators who never once thought about this topic.

That was before the War with the Eskimos.

buwaya said...

To expand above, we were more likely to find male teachers in private schools than public, though most private school teachers would have preferred publuc schools due to better pay and benefits. But public schools were much less likely to hire men.

dreams said...

I think most men realize it's important to be a good role model for little boys, especially when we have so many single moms and it's not good that there are so many single moms.

One of the best comments about my youngest brother who just recently died at 59 was the comment quoted below.

"Danny was always there for a lot of us boys that didn't always have a dad around, I'll miss you Danny thanks for the life lessons and friendship."

exiledonmainstreet said...

Ken B said...
I am going to say a cynical thing about men who don't go into teaching. I don't blame them. We live in Salem where all accusations are believed. Especially against men who like children.

4/2/17, 10:36 AM

Exactly. I had some excellent male teachers in grade school, although not at that grade level. I don't think any of the kids, including the boys, thought of them as unmanly.

One of them, Mr. Miller, had a formidable throwing arm. The speed at which he could whirl around and throw an eraser at a 7th grader who refused to shut up was admirable. Once he fired off a perfect strike right at a boy in the last row and got him smack on the forehead. We applauded.

You couldn't do that in a classroom today, although those flying erasers didn't hurt anybody.

Derek Kite said...

My father, who passed away recently, worked in construction. His hands were broad and strong. The image that I remember him by is when he held my younger brothers and sisters in his large hands. All of us remember his rough day old beard on our tender skin, and my sister said she is amazed how many of her friends never felt that from their fathers.

I was working in a day care once, there was a young lad who wasn't very happy for some reason. 3 yrs old maybe. I had a large enough copper elbow in my parts box that was clean and too big to swallow, so I called him over and handed it to him. His face lit up, and he carried it around the rest of the morning. The ladies looking after him were happy as well.

Children need a father as well as a mother.

buwaya said...

PB&J,

I have taught many young men in my time. Most went on to be honest and reliable workers, fathers of families themselves, and fine fellows. I guess I have the "dad" thing.

I am sad that I have not had the opportunity to straighten you out, which is frustratingly not possible via text. You have potential, but, it seems, sadly wasted. I hope you find a mentor that can cure your unhappiness.

madAsHell said...

My father was the disciplinarian. He employed spanking. Years later, when I would make poor decisions, my butt would tingle.

Roughcoat said...

That was before the War with the Eskimos.

I see what you did there. J.D. Salinger short story, a good one too.

Sebastian said...

"I honestly have found my best, most manly self when some kindy or 1st grade boy student — likely missing their divorced or otherwise absent father — snuggles against me at story time." I honestly hope he has a good lawyer.

There, I said the cynical thing. It's more fun when teacher asks-tells you, "don't you have anything better to say?" Cuz manhood. (Well, boyhood, anyway.)

Roughcoat said...

We had some real manly teachers when I was in second and third grade, in the early 1950s.

Me too. And they were all women.

Jonathan Graehl said...

trump's all that, too

my best two teachers in elementary were men
in middle school, a woman.
in high school, two men and a woman

you'd have to really care about teaching to buck the "man with young kids" stigma?

absent fathers probably boost the value of a 'boy teacher'

Michael K said...

My father was not the best father I knew but he was certainly a model of manliness. One time, when I was a little kid, I saw him carry a jukebox on his back up a flight of stairs. He was in the jukebox business until the Mafia got into competition with him and a few others. Then it was prudent to get out of it. My kids are fascinated by the fact that my father knew Al Capone.

He was so strong that he was afraid to get too angry. He would break things. That's a bit too far on the manly side but it is something you remember.

Michael K said...

"Me too. And they were all women."

My teachers in elementary school were all nuns and, yes, they were usually manly. Not all.

mockturtle said...

I liked this comment and hope you see what's good about it. I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say.

Hope springs eternal in the Althousian breast.

I admit to being suspicious of men who work in day care centers.

Graham Powell said...

To me manliness is taking care of your responsibilities, though as Fernandinande says, that's a virtue not limited to men. Earn your pay, help your friends when you can, be a good husband and a good father. In that last one I'm lucky - I really enjoy doing kid stuff. Not everyone does, and that makes it tough to spend a lot of time with your kids. In fact mine are now old enough where they don't really want to go to the zoo or the science museum, and I miss that stuff.

Roughcoat said...

Michael K:

In your old neighborhood this past week, black youths have once again been shooting the shit out of each other. Betcha none of them have fathers in their lives. Not even a father who would get angry and break things, which would be an improvement over the present circumstances.

Children need fathers, especially adolescent children, especially adolescent boys. The single/unwed mother phenomenon is a civilization destroyer.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say."

You seriously don't see how condescending and ignorant this comment of yours is, Althouse? Sometimes I think the Lefty tool who's always raving about your pension is right. For a person of your age and education you're remarkably sheltered and smug.

Njall said...

Derek Kite

Your comment reminded me of all the kind men relatives of my childhood (70's), and brought actual tears to my eyes.

No cynicism here. At least not on this topic.

mockturtle said...

When I look around at all the man-made marvels I admire--buildings, highways, jet planes, etc.--I ask myself, 'Would a woman have made these things?'. The answer is no. We'd still be living in caves. I'm sure the first man to bring fire into the cave to show his wife was greeted with, "Get that out of here! It looks dangerous!" And both would be right. Women protect and men invent. They push the envelope, you might say. Both are of equal value and provide necessary balance.

n.n said...

Equal and complementary does not mean you cannot be a teacher or that you must be a physical laborer.

Kevin said...

Doesn't a child need a male role model like a bicycle needs a fish?

mockturtle said...

Children need fathers, especially adolescent children, especially adolescent boys. The single/unwed mother phenomenon is a civilization destroyer.

Roughcoat, truer words were never spoken. And it doesn't only apply to blacks. Single motherhood is not only the biggest indicator of poverty in all racial groups but is destructive to boys' development.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"My father, who passed away recently, worked in construction. His hands were broad and strong. The image that I remember him by is when he held my younger brothers and sisters in his large hands."

There's a reason why women (including me) melt at those photos of burly firemen gently carrying toddlers out of burning buildings to safety. The best and highest expression of masculinity is putting physical strength to use protecting the weak and vulnerable. A man with great physical strength who uses it to prey on the weak and vulnerable isn't manly. He is just a thug.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

"snuggles against me at story time"
We need more male teachers, especially in inner city neighborhoods where two parent households are a rarity. However, I find that comment shocking. I have several friends who teach young children in the public school system in NY/NJ area. Physical contact is only permitted in extreme circumstances, to prevent a child from from injuring themselves or another. If a child does not know how to button their pants after using the restroom their parents are called or they spend the day unbuttoned.Human decency and common sense cause the restrictions to loosen until another teacher faces allegations and everyone returns to ruler rule/12" distance minimum at all times. Any teacher(of any gender identity) who allowed children to snuggle against them would be reprimanded.

Inga said...

At my daughters daycare center there is a male teacher and this is in a liberal city. The vast majority of parents are married professionals. Also exteremely expensive. Hopefully all day cares take such good care of the children, but I doubt it.The teachers are rarely alone with the children, always two or more teachers to a class of small children, and parents are encouraged to drop in anytime. He's accepted by the parents and an asset to the school. The children love him.

Roughcoat said...

mockturtle @11:35 AM

Totally agree. I wasn't restricting my comments to blacks. Applicable to all children everywhere.

Rusty said...

What is the use of everything I have learned if I can't pass it on? All children are a blank page demanding to filled up. It's how you approach that task that makes you man.

Christopher said...

Now that I think of it all of my favorite teachers were male. Huh, never noticed that before.

Virgil Hilts said...

Today, an average professional guy in good shape/OK looking who is reliable and makes more than $250K is as attractive to most women (at least those you would want to attract) as a muscled and chiseled lumberjack. There do seem to be a number of woman who marry the lumberjack, have a couple kids with him, divorce him while they're still young and attractive and then marry the professional (and maybe have one more kid with him). Heh, if I was a woman I would probably do the same thing.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"He's accepted by the parents and an asset to the school"

Exactly the way White Liberals would have talked about a Black man in the '60's or '70's. Is he a credit to his gender?

The Left can't speak without slipping into self-parody.

BDNYC said...

I admit it: the part about "snuggling"on his "hairy arm" made me cringe. The widespread prejudice against men in early education is indeed unfair, but comments like that are creepy and only exacerbates the prejudice. Honestly, he sounds a bit like a pervert.

Inga said...

Cracker,

What is your problem? On the rag? First you wrongfully jump down Althouse's throat:

Cracker quoted Althouse:
"I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say."

Cracker said:
"You seriously don't see how condescending and ignorant this comment of yours is, Althouse? Sometimes I think the Lefty tool who's always raving about your pension is right. For a person of your age and education you're remarkably sheltered and smug."

Then you stupidly ignore the fact that yes indeed male teachers have been looked at askance in the very recent past. The acceptance of this male teacher by the parents is a GOOD thing you asshole and me saying so is not wrong. I'm being honest in saying that not every parent would accept a male teaching and caring for their young children. I'm not going to pretend that there was/is no stigma attached to male teachers.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
buwaya said...

The system really doesn't want male teachers, is the plain truth. Its not just a matter of self-selection.

If they really did want them, anywhere in K-12, they could easily recruit all they wanted out of the "male" tracks in college, with a simple certification scheme, or out of the technical professions, early retirees from the private sector or the military. Teaching is potentially a desirable retirement job.

There is a bit of the "cosa nostra" in the gatekeepers to teaching. They have an idea of who fits into their society.

Kevin said...

"What is your problem? On the rag?"

And now the sexist comments have jumped to the women's side of the ledger.

Laslo Spatula said...

Similar sentence you won't find in the NYT:

I honestly have found my best, most manly self when some eleventh or twelfth grade girl Cheerleader — likely missing their divorced or otherwise absent father — snuggles against me at gym time and lays her little hand on my hairy arm.

I am Laslo.

Michael K said...

Blogger Roughcoat said...
Michael K:

In your old neighborhood this past week, black youths have once again been shooting the shit out of each other.


I follow it in the Tribune. I was talking to my sister yesterday. I know exactly where those shootings were. I used to walk by there all the time. 70th and Lake Shore Drive was a very high end area with gorgeous apartments. A classmate of mine in elementary school lived in one. It must have had 15 or 20 rooms. His father was VP of the New York Central railroad.

It's just amazing what has happened to that beautiful area. Several of the homes are Frank Lloyd Wright designs but I'll bet no home tours are going on. My sister said her son called her one day and was driving through the old neighborhood because traffic on the Dan Ryan was bad. She told him to get out of there as fast as he could.

I would like to see her get out but she has grandchildren and won't leave them.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Crack,

Others in this thread stated that they saw bias against male teachers. What' wrong w/ Inga saying that wasn't her experience?

Michael K said...

"Teaching is potentially a desirable retirement job. "

A few years ago, I owned 10 acres on Vashon Island and planned to build a hime there. I was thinking about what I would do to keep busy.

It occurred to me that I could teach high school biology or something like that. I was an engineer as well as a doctor.

Anyway, I checked into what I would have to do. I gave up and later sold the property.

Kevin said...

"What' wrong w/ Inga saying that wasn't her experience?"

One black teacher in a group of whites - obvious sign of racial bias.
One male in a group of females - obvious sign of acceptance and enlightenment.

hstad said...

Roughcoat, you are correct about: "The single/unwed mother phenomenon is a civilization destroyer." Just look at what is happening to Western Civilization today.

MayBee said...

I think it's great when there are male teachers in elementary school.

I think it's gross he said "hairy arm".

Njall said...

I agree with the Cracker Emcee - I don't understand AA's negative expectations about this topic. Besides the obvious comments about the risk of false accusations for abuse etc., who on the right or left would actually be against male teachers? Or would feel that they are less manly? (!) Even if some on the fringe do say something like this, it doesn't merit a preemptive comment, in my view.

Things like this make me question her judgement (and not for the first or last time).

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Laslo Spatula said...

My movie is about three men who grew up with absent fathers, and the father figure they adopted in their youth soon returning from prison.

KELLER: I don't know what I'd do if Uncle Bennie asked me to have sex with him. That would be awkward.

FRICK: I imagine.

KELLER: Maybe if we were both in prison it would be different. (pause) Or Hawaii.

Waiting for a Cafe to post the link.

I am Laslo.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"I don't understand AA's negative expectations about this topic."

She got a taste of thoughtful, intelligent comments....and then came back here.

Poor thing.

Mrs Whatsit said...

The only problem that I have with this comment is that it's depressing for a teacher to have such crummy spelling and grammar skills. His affection for the kids is lovely, and I've got no problems with his manliness -- but I hope he teaches VERY young children who aren't yet learning to spell or punctuate.

buwaya said...

Inga,

Its not the parents that are the problem here, and I doubt they have ever been. After all at one time teaching school, even elementary school, was a predominantly male profession, in spite of its modern image of the old-time schoolmarm.

Its interesting to dig into what was actually true of the past. The past is a different country, that the present likes to filter through modern prejudice.

Just an example - John J Pershing, Indian-fighter, officer of "Buffalo Soldiers" - hence his cognomen "Blackjack", who charged up San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt, Moro-slaughterer, American proconsul and General of the Armies - "cool as a bowl of cracked ice" under fire -

His first job (out of high school!) was as an elementary schoolteacher - at a black elementary school.

Inga said...

PB Good Person said...

"Others in this thread stated that they saw bias against male teachers. What' wrong w/ Inga saying that wasn't her experience?"

What was wrong with my comment to Crack is because I'm a liberal saying so. When conservatives said basically the same thing he kept his stupid yap shut. And as far as my insult to him about "being on the rag", well welcome to our world. How many times have women had this thrown in their face when they said something that some man didn't like?

The Cracker Emcee said...

""What' wrong w/ Inga saying that wasn't her experience?"

One black teacher in a group of whites - obvious sign of racial bias.
One male in a group of females - obvious sign of acceptance and enlightenment."

Bingo. They're too brainwashed to recognize their own grotesque bigotry. They destroy the Black family and then squeal in delight when Obama is seen being a father to his daughters. They drive men from elementary education and then hold up the token survivors as proof of how tolerant they are. Did I say self-parody? They are far, far, beyond parody.

Bill said...

Being a man means the ability to haul 2x8s up a ladder AND comfort a small child (not necessarily at the same time).

Inga said...

Cracker you are a self parody of a right wing asshole, good job. I'm saying that men in daycare and elementary schools are a positive thing and you stupidly say liberals are driving men from elementary education. You apparently don't like liberals having an opinion that conservatives share. Keep trying to paint liberals as having an agenda vastly different than conservatives when it comes to parenting.

Derek Kite said...

njall and exiledonmainstreet, thanks for your comments.

>The best and highest expression of masculinity is putting physical strength to use protecting the weak and vulnerable.

In our small shop we have young and older men who all are proud of how they work hard to benefit others. We are one of the technical trades that keep the world running, and are invisible to most people. My challenge is finding young men who have enough stability to take on this responsibility. And employing young men always ends up being a father son relationship in some way.

I was lucky to have a father who was a man, and I was lucky to work for people who also were men enough to pass on their knowledge.

These cloistered feminists have no idea how much devastation they are wreaking.

bagoh20 said...

I appreciate the instructions in how to comment correctly. Maybe you could just provide something for us hillbillies to cut and paste. It would keep the place a little more neat and tidy.

AprilApple said...

progs ruin everything they touch.

Inga said...

And Cracker, maybe it's not a good idea to comment when you're in the throes of Male PMS.

etbass said...

"My teachers in elementary school were all nuns and, yes, they were usually manly. Not all."

In the 4th grade one day on the playground, when told to stop doing something, I replied "Nuts" and was soundly slapped by Sister Philomena, a manly nun.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Besides the obvious comments about the risk of false accusations for abuse etc., who on the right or left would actually be against male teachers? Or would feel that they are less manly?"

Exactly. Althouse perhaps expected us to make wisecracks about how "real men" don't become teachers, because manly men don't want to work with kids, or because of the pay or something.

But I don't feel that way. It doesn't look like anybody here does. The common consensus appears to be that a good male teacher provides kids, particularly kids from fatherless homes with a positive role model (damn, I hate that term), but that it has become a risky occupation for a man to have. Unfortunately, there will always be scumbags in the mix because child molesters - of both sexes - are drawn to professions which give them easy access to children.

It's not just male teachers who have to be very careful. A smart male OB/GYN always has a female RN in the room with him when he is conducting an exam.



AprilApple said...

I like the comment, too. You know some offended prog somewhere will "Put a stop to it!"

Yancey Ward said...

The world doesn't really reward non-cynicism, does it?

It would be fascinating to know more about Mr. Schlemmer. Anyone want to hazard some guesses?

buwaya said...

Also interesting that the original model for US public education was the old Prussian system, imported into the US by Horace Mann - this is why so many American schools are named for Horace Mann.

The Prussian systems SOP was to use retired Prussian Army NCOs as primary school teachers. It was their retirement job. This policy began in the early 18th century under the then-elector of Brandenburg. And it was still current, if not universal, when Horace Mann was pushing the model on the US.

Michael K said...

After all at one time teaching school, even elementary school, was a predominantly male profession, in spite of its modern image of the old-time schoolmarm.

At one time, especially during the Civil War, nursing was also a man's job. Florence Nightingale was going against convention by taking women to Istanbul to care for wounded men. A few women began to change that in the Civil War, especially Clara Barton, who would found the American Red Cross. She was in Washington City and saw the men trickling back from Bull Run wounded and went out to help them.

bagoh20 said...

Naaaa. What you do is smack those the little bastards with that 2X4 and tell 'em to man up and stop being little girly men. Am I right, guys?

And stop pretending to have a sensitive side, you pussies. Everybody knows you just do that to get laid, and when the ladies turn their backs, you kick the little shorties in the ass, becuase that's just how we role up here on top in the patriarchy.

bagoh20 said...

"role"? Ha! "Role" or "roll" ,it still works, becuase men are always right. We only pretend to mess up to make you feel equal.

Michael K said...

"A smart male OB/GYN "

I know of no male OB/GYNs anymore. They are retiring. A male OB resident who finishes cannot find a job. At least in California.

Breast surgery is increasingly being taken over by females.

I have no objection but it is part of the trend toward shift work and reduced hours by new doctors.

William said...

I take the writer at his word, and it's a good thing for civilization that such men exist. I do note, however, that if the writer were a member of the clergy rather than a construction worker, red flags would be raised. I also note that we now live in a time where construction workers are more trusted around young children than members of the clergy. How can one help but be cynical nowadays.

buwaya said...

But "liberals" did drive men from teaching, and they still do. Its a scandal, or should be. Liberals have their own institutions and rice-bowls that they protect, and their own ideological provinces where they resent intrusion.

To fix this, if anyone on that side truly does want to, would mean tearing down their own institutions like schools of education, school district bureaucracies, and teachers unions, as well as quite a lot of the legal profession.

Luke Lea said...

The very word "manly" is foreign to me. I never heard or used it growing up and when, occasionally, someone in my poker group uses it, it is always ironically.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"I know of no male OB/GYNs anymore. They are retiring. A male OB resident who finishes cannot find a job. At least in California."

There still seems to be plenty of them out here, but yes, it is becoming an increasingly female dominated specialty.

bagoh20 said...

In six years of elementary school back in the 60s, I only had one male teacher (in 5th grade). Everybody thought it was just the best thing and something special back then too. It was different, but mostly in our minds rather than in reality. A man did bring something more to the sciences back then. They seemed to really like the stuff rather than just doing their job. I know many women have as strong an affinity for science as men now, but back then it was a rare thing.

Laslo Spatula said...

So I Googled "Mark Schlemmer Portland child molester" and the first hit was a man of that name who's wife killed their children. He is from Allegheny, though, not Portland.

How does your wife killing your children affect your Manhood?


Looking up "Portland teacher child molester" brings these on the first page:

"A former art teacher at Portland High School pleaded guilty Wednesday to a child pornography charge and was sentenced to 90 days in jail.

Gerald White, 44, of Freeport was arrested at the school in December and charged with possessing sexually explicit material of someone under the age of 12, a Class C felony punishable by up to five years in prison."

"Although a judge last week found a Portland Public Schools employee not guilty of sexually abusing a 7-year-old developmentally disabled student in a school restroom, he hasn't gotten his job back.... During the six-day trial, Christy-Hamilton's defense attorneys described child abuse investigators as overzealous and with an agenda to prove him guilty despite questionable evidence. They also took aim at Portland Public Schools, which required Christy-Hamilton to accompany the girl to the bathroom."

"A West Linn High School teacher was arrested Tuesday, accused of sexually abusing two male students.

Jonathan Michael Peachey, who teaches Spanish and English language development at the high school, was arrested at his Lake Oswego home Tuesday morning. He was booked into the Clackamas County Jail on suspicion of third-degree sexual abuse, furnishing alcohol to a minor and official misconduct."

No mention of hairy arms.

I am Laslo.

bagoh20 said...

"Althouse perhaps expected us to make wisecracks about how "real men" don't become teachers..."

Surely, she was just showing us what being sexist and predictable looks like, so we could avoid it.

Inga said...

"Althouse perhaps expected us to make wisecracks about how "real men" don't become teachers..."

"Surely, she was just showing us what being sexist and predictable looks like, so we could avoid it."

Maybe it's a simple as knowing her commenters.

Laslo Spatula said...

If I had a high-school-age son, and could choose for him between a male teacher and a female teacher, I would choose the female teacher.

That way, if he had sex with his teacher, it would with be a woman.

Less confusion in the developmental stage.

I am Laslo.

surfed said...

I taught school for 37 years. Jr College, High School, Jr High School and Elementary. The two years I taught 4th grade were the best of the 37. A wonderful and magical two years. Now in my retired dotage I remember them often..

AllenS said...

Recently another kindergarten teacher came into the class I was subbing in and told me her whole class was jealous because my class had a 'boy teacher.'

Translation -- Girl teachers fucking suck.

Laslo Spatula said...

If my imaginary high-school-age son HAD to have sex with a Male Teacher, I hope it would be a Manly One.

Because then -- when he inevitably turns Gay -- there is still a chance he won't be poncy about it.

I am Laslo.

traditionalguy said...

Education happens under a discipline. Discipline happens under a male authority. A male school Principal may be all you can get, but the best happens under male teacher.

I wish I was wrong. But I am right.

buwaya said...

It would be interesting if the FedGov set up an education credentialling system for retiring military officers and NCOs, to serve as the equivalent of university-program education postgrad credentials.
From the students-parents point of view I think it would be very popular.
This would be, however, greeted with pitchforks and torches by the educational establishment.

Michael K said...

"How does your wife killing your children affect your Manhood?"

Maybe it's time for a creepy story.

I knew a guy whose wife killed their children. He was a Marine fighter pilot who did a lot of the stunt flying for "Top Gun." While he was out fishing one day. she shot their two daughters to death then shot herself in the neck which she said was a suicide attempt. She called his sister and told her she had "just shot the girls" two little girls about 5 and 7.

She went to prison, I think, but got out a few years later. He divorced her after the shooting but, after she got out of prison, he married her again. Their previous friends would have nothing to do with them after this. They moved up to the northwest.

Laslo Spatula said...

I would prefer that my imaginary high-school-age son had sex with a lesbian teacher.

As a male, getting a lesbian to have sex with you is a Real Confidence Builder.

And he'd probably learn to munch carpet real good, which is always a hit with the ladies.

I am Laslo.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Maybe it's a simple as knowing her commenters."

The only sexist comments I see in this thread were written by you, Inga.

Hypocritical as always.

Laslo Spatula said...

I would hope that, if my imaginary high-school-age son had sex with a female teacher, she wouldn't be real old and fat.

That would like a Voodoo Curse on his future sexuality.

Old, fat woman Voodoo.

I am Laslo.

Roughcoat said...

Michael K:

Maybe your sister should move to Mt. Greenwood if she wants to stay near her grandchildren. Not upscale like Beverly but still overwhelmingly Irish-Catholic; and it was, amazingly (but not unsurprisingly if you know its demographics) the only Chicago neighborhood that cast the majority of its votes for Trump. Has some good pubs too -- Hinky Dink's on 111th used to be one of my favorites before I transitioned out of my pub-crawling, Western Ave. Death March years.

mockturtle said...

"How does your wife killing your children affect your Manhood?"

Did Medea not kill Jason's and her children of out revenge? How was Jason's manhood affected? I think, however, there are far more instances of men killing their children and then themselves [too bad they couldn't do the latter first] as revenge against their ex-wives.

Laslo Spatula said...

If my imaginary first-grade-age son was to be molested by a teacher, I would hope the teacher was a woman.

It would suck either way, but the most she'd probably do is stick one of her fingers in his ass, which would be better than a male teacher's erect adult cock.

I am Laslo.

mockturtle said...

If my imaginary high-school-age son HAD to have sex with a Male Teacher, I hope it would be a Manly One.

Because then -- when he inevitably turns Gay -- there is still a chance he won't be poncy about it.


Laslo, there is some evidence that many, if not most, gay men were molested by a male when very young.

Inga said...

"Maybe it's a simple as knowing her commenters."

"The only sexist comments I see in this thread were written by you"

Snowflake.

Zach said...

I think what we're seeing here is confusion about whether someone can be gay and manly at the same time.

Bruni seems to take the position that you can't -- that cliched stock images of hungry men who work hard are implicitly rebuking him for not being that kind of man. If you take that position, it's going to seem like the whole world is against you -- there just aren't enough people in pop culture who are exact mirrors of you.

I can actually see Bruni's point. If straight males were 2% of the population and 90% of the culture was about the trials and tribulations of gay men, I'd probably be turned off, too. I'm not gay, I have no interest in acting gay, it just doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Schlemmer takes the position that he is obviously a man, so whatever he does is an expression of masculinity. He just needs to take the action appropriate to the occasion and whatever that is will be a positive expression of masculinity.

It's easy for me to say, but the second position seems much healthier to me.

The trouble with Bruni's position is that you're taking normal teenage insecurities and angst and blowing them up into a life story. Does he think he's the only person who ever went through puberty? Straight guys have to answer those same questions about what kind of man they want to be, too.

Francisco D said...

As a Baby Boomer, I had male and female teachers. A lot of the male teachers were dorky intellectuals. Some of the female teachers were overly intense. I never thought of them as manly or womanly. I just wanted to make sure that I stayed on their good sides.

That said, the best teacher I ever had (5th through 10th grade) was an extremely dorky and eccentric man. The next best was an incredibly intense 4'10 Holocaust survivor. The kindest was an overtly gay man (in the 1960's).

I'm a pretty macho type of guy, but don't wear it on my sleeve. Go figure.

Michael K said...

Maybe your sister should move to Mt. Greenwood if she wants to stay near her grandchildren.

I doubt they will move anywhere. Her husband is a retired CPD cop and they had to live in city limits or they would have originally bought out there. Her son and his kids live a couple of blocks away and her daughter is on the north side.

Laslo Spatula said...

If my imaginary first-grade-age son was to be molested by a female teacher, I would hope the teacher had a foreign accent. Like French, maybe.

Then it would mostly be exotic. And he would grow up with a healthy suspicion of French women. French women are ALWAYS trying to stick their fingers up men's asses. Even if that is not what you paid them for.

I am Laslo.

AReasonableMan said...

As the father of a school age daughter I would prefer to play the odds and stick with female teachers for as long as possible. I can teach her math and science.

David53 said...

This guy seems pretty young. He talks about being a substitute teacher for kinder and 1st grade classes and I definitely give him kudos for that but all schools are not created equal and I wonder if he would have made the same comment if he had subbed in Houston, Chicago, or NYC?

Michael said...

It is a great tragedy that we have not allowed, or have discouraged, men to teach in the lower grades or to demonize those who do. Our children have suffered.

rhhardin said...

A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to pick up his socks.

He will have waited for many socks to accumulate.

rhhardin said...

Malevolence and denigration are the two chief characteristics of the French mind.

- Chateaubriand

I usually substutite maid for mind.

Freeman Hunt said...

The children's Sunday school type classes at our church are taught by an equal number of men and women. Lots of dads and students are involved. It's great. There's certainly no lack of manliness in that group.

Zach said...

The best and highest expression of masculinity is putting physical strength to use protecting the weak and vulnerable.

That's true, but there's also value in simply being a male role model who takes an interest and expects a certain level of behavior. When I taught at the college level, I noticed that I had many fewer discipline problems than female colleagues. I wasn't doing anything special, and I'm hardly a disciplinarian. Guys just naturally take behavioral cues from the highest ranking male in the room. And if there are no adult men around, the highest ranking male is going to be a rambunctious kid by default.

rhhardin said...

Borderline pedophiles make the best teachers, Guugenbuhl-Craig says. They're able to sustain an interest in what the kids are saying where normal adults tune out.

Mike said...

Feminizing education had a disastrous effect on the profession and the outcomes of millions of children's' lives. Between obtaining a BA in English and an MBA I took a detour and taught school for ten years, finding a niche as a long-term sub where a certain school district had a hard time finding "permanent" teachers: special education. I was one of very few males in the SE program, where I stayed for several years shepherding students through high school. (I was in that position so long most students didn't know I was "only" a sub.) Special Education is notable not only for nearly 100% female faculty but also the roughly 80/20 male/female student make-up.

Two things really stuck with me long after leaving that to go into the corporate world. First, most male students were not "learning disabled" so much as they were boys with the requisite need for recess to exert physically and "let off steam" in a controlled and natural way (kickball, softball, tag, whatever), but being denied that in elementary and middle school (check out what passes for "physical" in PE now and you'll be shocked at how little activity is expected of schools now because "girls don't want to sweat"), they were labeled "disruptive" and learning disabilities were made up to shunt them into a nice Title 1 program where the school could get Fed funding, boys could be put on drugs like ritalin, and the school could hire more faculty (class sizes limited to 20 students and you get a teacher's aid!) -- win-win in the admin's eyes!

Second, the feminization of the faculties and programs (along with a pervasive attitude that some students were "unteachable") led to very low expectations and a coddling atmosphere devoid of learning, which leads to restless kids and a generally disruptive atmosphere. I was young and not too far removed from the discipline and high expectations of my late 1960s-through-1970s public education and relatively unaffected by the grotesque touchy-feely nature of the credentialing classes I took at night to become a "real" teacher. So I insisted on discipline and the rule that "everybody tries" to do the lesson. (There could be a long digression here on the legal mandate that every child shall receive a "personalized education plan" in Special Ed, but will just summarize that it led instead to very low general standards in most LD/SE classrooms that were still too far above the slowest kid and did nothing to challenge the top 50% let alone the smartest kids there.) This meant I had to design a curriculum that was interesting and challenging to everyone, and then spend extra time with the truly disabled to help them see what the lesson meant. The restless boys soon learned to wise up and act mature, and I reached more of them after applying a few simple techniques (put work on blue or green paper because most dyslexia is easily avoided by not having high-contrast text like black letters on a white page) and demanding that each student try with my clearly stated expectation that ALL would succeed, at least partially every day for every lesson.

Jack Wayne said...

I don't know a good definition of manly for an individual. I do know the definition of manly for a culture. I get there by subtraction: 1) In many Muslim countries men subject women and gays to various indignities and even death. This strikes me as inhuman and therefore unmanly, 2) In many European countries, Muslims subject many women and gays to indignities and death and the Europeans don't do much to stop it. That strikes me as inhuman and therefore unmanly.

On Bruni, I urge him to stop writing for a women's magazine. Apparently doing that conflicts him.

Mike said...

That, along with being a man, set me apart from most of the teachers these kids had had over the years. For some I was the only one who "cared enough" to try and TEACH them, instead of warehousing them and showing videos. That discipline and the good results they showed allowed us to have fun learning science (occasionally blowing stuff up, or bringing musical instruments in to show real sound waves on an oscilloscope) and math (I proved that almost every student could do simple algebra given patience and high expectations). The little 5th generation gangsters respected me because I didn't take any crap from even the most intimidating hombres and would tell then in Spanish to quit acting foolish unless they wanted to be seen as the fool. I rarely had to use the principal or suspension options because the kids wanted to participate and self-policed in order to keep the class moving.

Too many women and not enough men was a bad mix for education, especially in lower and middle grades. But the complete lack of discipline is the real force that broke public education. If you read carefully, you can tell that the only real difference in "voucher" or religious schools is the continued adherence to high standards and good behavior. It's not that they get better teachers or pay more, its that they WORK to maintain discipline (and parents agree to help reinforce the code) and students will ALWAYS respond to high expectations with better work. Always. Until discipline breaks down, then the school becomes more Lord of the Flies than a place of learning.

[had to break into two to post]

rhhardin said...

My Doberman does not snuggle. If you stop petting when she wants more, you get a strong nose-poke.

AReasonableMan said...

exiledonmainstreet said...
The best and highest expression of masculinity is putting physical strength to use protecting the weak and vulnerable.


Not untrue but the most effective forces acting against bullying at schools have, in my experience, been girls/women who use their verbal skills to shame/expose bullies. My daughter surprised me the other day by talking about this and telling me that she deals with the bullying in her grade by just this means. I pointed out to her that women often cause and encourage fighting and bullying and she was genuinely shocked to learn this. It will become trickier for her as she gets older and has to deal with girls/women who work in this way.

Rick said...

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
"I don't understand AA's negative expectations about this topic."

She got a taste of thoughtful, intelligent comments....and then came back here.

Poor thing.


How is it the worst commenters - those whose only contributions are insults (always and therefore boringly partisan) - nevertheless conclude other commenters are the problem? It's astonishing people who have literally never made an intelligent or even interesting comment still look down on others. It reminds me of that famous saying "we're condescended to by our inferiors".

David53 said...

I once subbed at what is called an “alternative school.” It’s where the district sends all the kids who are too wild for “regular” schools. It was more like a prison than a school, a uniformed cop constantly circled the building and cameras monitored every classroom. These were middle school kids, it was tough. Every other word was a curse word, often directed at me. One girl, only 14, already had a kid of her own. I survived and after class the principal congratulated me on making it through the whole day. He asked me if I was interested in a long-term sub position but I wouldn’t have to teach. I asked, “What would I have to do?” He replied, “We just need someone to sit in class with Johnny.” This seemed odd, “What does Johnny do that he needs such close supervision?” The principal smiled, “Last week he set fire to the hair of the girl in front of him.” I declined the offer.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

Right, Mike! A private or parochial school can expel a child for repeated misconduct. Much harder for public schools. Both the worst classroom disciplinarian and one of the best in my school experience were men.

The principal [a woman] in my younger daughter's private middle school sent out a memo telling parents that she was shocked at hearing how some students spoke to their parents and that the decline of respect and discipline was dangerous. Three cheers for her! Unfortunately for teachers, they have to deal with the results of neglectful and lazy parenting.

mockturtle said...

David 53 reports: I once subbed at what is called an “alternative school.” It’s where the district sends all the kids who are too wild for “regular” schools. It was more like a prison than a school, a uniformed cop constantly circled the building and cameras monitored every classroom. These were middle school kids, it was tough. Every other word was a curse word, often directed at me. One girl, only 14, already had a kid of her own. I survived and after class the principal congratulated me on making it through the whole day. He asked me if I was interested in a long-term sub position but I wouldn’t have to teach. I asked, “What would I have to do?” He replied, “We just need someone to sit in class with Johnny.” This seemed odd, “What does Johnny do that he needs such close supervision?” The principal smiled, “Last week he set fire to the hair of the girl in front of him.” I declined the offer.

Some of these kids are born sociopaths. What is the answer? Kind of like A Clockwork Orange dilemma.

Roughcoat said...

Michael K:

Mt. Greenwood is a Chicago neighborhood, part of Chicago. Because it's a border neighborhood (bordering on non-Chicago Oak Lawn, Evergreen Park, Merrionette Park, and Alsip) a lot of Chicago cops and firefighters live there. You it also borders Beverly, along Western Avenue. All the Irish pubs are on the west/Mt. Greewood side of Western Ave.; Beverly, on the east side, is dry. Your sister's house is probably a 5 minute walk from Mt. Greenwood. Brother Rice High School, Marist High School, Mother McAuley High School, and Saint Xavier University -- all Catholic schools -- are located in Mt. Greenwood.

Rick said...

Some of these kids are born sociopaths.

Thy're not born into their behavior, they're parented into it.

Michael K said...

the most effective forces acting against bullying at schools have, in my experience, been girls/women who use their verbal skills to shame/expose bullies.

You obviously have little experience with bullies.

My ex-wife, who has a lifetime credential from her days in college and teaching, went back about 20 years ago when she had gotten laid off in a bank merger. She was a sub for about six months until she got another bank job. She was appalled at the changes in teachers, not kids. She had no trouble with discipline although she was teaching 2nd grade but found there was no encouragement of good teaching.

I think the unions are a big part plus the SJWs who are running cities now. Read about Minneapolis/St Paul schools.

n the Obama years, America’s public education system embarked on a vast social experiment that threatened to turn schools into educational free-fire zones. The campaign—carried out in the name of “racial equity”—sought to reduce dramatically the suspension rate of black students, who get referred for discipline at much higher rates than other students. From the top down, the U.S. Department of Education drove the effort; from the bottom up, local educational bureaucrats have supported and implemented it.
“Racial equity” has become the all-purpose justification for dubious educational policies.


Horrifying.

M Jordan said...

I was never a manly man because God didn't give me that kind of body. But I loved sports and construction and some of the manly arts so I was manly enough I guess. And I became a teacher, not of little kids but high schoolers. It didn't make me more manly but it definitely kept me younger. As a teacher I realized at some point that one of my most important roles was to be a man up front, digging into the true meaning of Ben Jonson's "Drink to be only with thine eyes" by pointing out the guy in the poem was obsessed and not in a good way with that woman. In other words, young guys needed to see a man who dug into poetry but not one who came out of the hole dug with a cliched soft trophy.

One more thing: humor. Humor is a manly thing. Humor is a way a man can fool around with words and not become girlified. One of my favorite poems to teach was "To his Coy Mistress," a clever carpe diem poem in which a young man uses all his persuasive powers to get a girl to have sex with him.

I'm rambling, another manly trait. I guess I am a manly man.

Mike said...

Rick said...
Some of these kids are born sociopaths.

Thy're not born into their behavior, they're parented into it.


Exactly. This reminds me of how the Left loses their shit over The Bell Curve while conveniently ignoring the fact the author says the environment is responsible for somewhere between 40% and 80% of the low IQ results. The only response the Left gives to empirical evidence is to cry RACISM! at any disparate result and pile dirt like an anal-retentive kitty on any inconvenient part the parents play in this exercise.

Roughcoat said...

Thy're not born into their behavior, they're parented into it.

Sometimes, but not always. No one knows really know the causes of sociopathy and psychogpathy. Arguments abound. Controversy is ongoing, along with research. It is thought that many such are born with a genetic bias to becoming sociopaths/psychopaths. The nature/nurture issue, yet again. Some children manifest sociopathic/psychopathic behaviors in adolescence only to grow out of them in early adulthood, perhaps as result of maturing brain chemistry. Eric Harris was not parented into being what he became, he had very good and caring parents who made all the right moves with him. Even so by the time of the Columbine incident he was a full-blown homicidal sadistic psychopath. It's a mystery as to how he, and others like him, became that way.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
You obviously have little experience with bullies.


Do blowhards on the internet count?

mockturtle said...

Thy're not born into their behavior, they're parented into it.

True sociopaths are more likely born, not made.

Roughcoat said...

A predisposition for sociopathy/psychopathy is by definition a heritable trait. The triggers are indeterminate but probably mostly nurture in origin. This is where the parenting issue comes into play. However it's a fact that most children with abusive parents do not become sociopaths or psychopaths. Bad parenting is not factor in their positive development. How to explain that? Personally I think it all has a lot to do with brain chemistry and the bio-chemical maturation of the brain. But what do I know. I don't even play a doctor on TV.

Rick said...

Roughcoat said...
Sometimes, but not always. No one knows really know the causes of sociopathy and psychogpathy.


The behavior which lands kids in those schools isn't definitionally sociopathic so even though this is true it doesn't disprove the point. Only a tiny percentage of people are sociopaths, even in the population of reform schoolers it's a small minority.

mockturtle said...

People whose childhoods were in every way far worse than that of, e.g., Ted Bundy, have grown up to be normal human beings. Again, one can never prove cause and effect in any of these cases. But genetic studies seem to offer more clues than does sociology/psychology.

FullMoon said...

"....likely missing their divorced or otherwise absent father"

Stupid. Wonder why he felt in necessary to say that? Any kid can have a healthy home relationship and still show affection for another adult.
A friend of mine ran a home day care with twelve little kids, all with seemingly normal parents. With few exceptions, over many years, all the kids were friendly and liked the male and female adults associated with the day care.

Incidentally, I happened to be there when the State social worker made a scheduled visit. This genius assured the Day Care provider that if a young child did not look her(the social worker) in the eye when talking to her(a stranger), that child had been molested. Also, children don't lie. Kinda scary having someone like that in such a position of power.

Kate said...

In the 4th grade our teacher, an elderly woman, suddenly died. The school brought in a young man to replace her. This was the early 70s. Mr. Koehler wore horn-rim glasses and plaid polyester pants, and we thought ourselves the luckiest class in the whole school.

Inga said...

Mockturtle said...
"Some of these kids are born sociopaths."

The above comment came from a conservative, not a liberal.

"This reminds me of how the Left loses their shit over The Bell Curve while conveniently ignoring the fact the author says the environment is responsible for somewhere between 40% and 80% of the low IQ results."

Browndog said...

What strikes me about the comment that Struck Althouse is the need to strike down the stereotype of what being "manly" is.

Striking, to me,is that liberals tend to limit their view of what "manliness" is through a stereotype, then pat themselves on the back when they feel they've found the exception to the rule.

Yes, Gertrude, you can carry lumber up a ladder, and have a boy lay his head on you while you read, and still be the same man you always were.

It is not heroic--it is normal.

Roughcoat said...

"I went to a school for disturbed teachers." That's a Woody Allen quote, but I went to that school too.

Robert Klein: "When my teachers graduated from teaching college they were issued a ruler, a pair of orthopedic shoes, and an odor." I had the same teachers.

exiledonmainstreet said...

ARM wrote: "the most effective forces acting against bullying at schools have, in my experience, been girls/women who use their verbal skills to shame/expose bullies."

That was true in my high school, but I went to an all-girls parochial school. I have no way of knowing how effective that tactic is against adolescent boys.

BTW, When I was 16 and rebellious, I stupidly took up smoking to be "cool." (It took another 25 years before I finally quit for good.) Girls got busted by the nuns and lay teachers all the time for sneaking smokes in the girl's bathrooms. It occurred to me one day that since there was only one male teacher in the entire school (the geometry and trig teacher), the odds of getting caught smoking in the men's room were much lower. A nun was NOT going to check out the men's room.

I didn't tell any of my friends because I knew all the smokers in school would start going into the men's room once they got my brilliant idea in their heads. And it worked beautifully - up until the day, 2 weeks before graduation, when the geometry came walking into the men's room just as I was finishing off my Newport Light.

He was a skinny nerdy guy but he was still able to practically lift me off the floor by the back of my Peter Pan collar and silently march me straight to the Principal's office.

It did not go well for me. They did let me graduate though.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga is straining to make some sort of point, but I'm damned if I know what it is.

Sociopathy does seem to have a genetic component to it, although I don't think anybody can break down the exact ratio of nature to nurture. Jeffery Dahmer's brother grew up with the same parents and home environment and didn't become a criminal.

TA said...

Teaching little kids and working construction? Guy lives in Portland, so he probably gets in a lot of good outdoors time, too.
Yeah, I could see that.

Francisco D said...

ARM asked: "Do blowhards on the internet count? re: dealing with alleged bully Michael K.

For Men: No. They tend to bully physically. Michael K only seems to be bullying you emotionally because you don't have the capacity to respond to his statements in a relevant manner.

For Women: Yes. They are much more likely to verbally bully other women. I think much of that starts in JR. HS. The biggest proponents (by far) of that theory seem to be women.

That's not meant as a comment on your sense of masculinity.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
"Michael K said...
You obviously have little experience with bullies.

Do blowhards on the internet count?"

Oh. The irony.

exhelodrvr1 said...

I have done volunteer tutoring in elementary schools for a number of years, and occasionally see that "snuggling" from K and 1st grade students.

AReasonableMan said...

In today's episode, David Attenborough observes how quickly beta males will jump up to protect the aged alpha from ridicule. It is the law of the internet.

Gospace said...

Troops to teachers existed when I retired from active duty in 1994. Didn't even consider it. Why? :

Ken B said...
I am going to say a cynical thing about men who don't go into teaching. I don't blame them. We live in Salem where all accusations are believed. Especially against men who like children.


Much too dangerous for a middle aged white male to suddenly take up as a profession. Everyone would be looking at you suspiciously. Paranoid? Not if it's true...

Then I read further down:
buwaya said...
...The Prussian systems SOP was to use retired Prussian Army NCOs as primary school teachers. It was their retirement job. This policy began in the early 18th century under the then-elector of Brandenburg. And it was still current, if not universal, when Horace Mann was pushing the model on the US.


If I were to actually act like an NCO in a classroom of public high schoolers, my career would be over before the end of the day. And there aren't enough private military schools to hire all of us.

I do teach kids on a regular basis though. Boy Scouts. Earning merit badges and advancing in rank. Learning how to be good citizens instead of just rote school work. Lessons that use to parallel and reinforce what was taught in Sunday School (or equivalent in other religions) and regular school. Most kids don't go to Sunday School anymore, and morality in school lessons... What morality in school lessons?

My son has several friends who are nominal Catholics. High schoolers. When some were staying over one night I questioned them. None could explain the Trinity and the Virgin Birth of Mary, none knew the difference between literal and figurative transubstantiation. Knowledge of the parables and lessons in the Bible? Non-existent. The common canon that bound most of together is no longer there. Our society is running on momentum. What replaces it is not likely to be as welcoming and friendly as it has been.

buwaya said...

"If I were to act like an NCO..."

But this is exactly what is needed. Which is part of the systemic problem. Let NCO's be NCO's.

Thanks for the troops to teachers ref, looking it up.

Michael K said...

Sometimes, but not always. No one knows really know the causes of sociopathy and psychopathy.

Yes. It is a small percentage, thank God. Still there are many examples of kids with good parents who grow up to be criminals.

Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate" has a lot to say about whether behavior is genetic or learned.

I tend to vote with Pinker.

Inga and ARM are in their own world and I usually avoid it.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"Recently another kindergarten teacher came into the class I was subbing in and told me her whole class was jealous because my class had a 'boy teacher.' Boiled down, are you man enough to show a child about manhood? If so, you are doing alright."

This is true. Part of being a man is being able to show boys how to be men.
That said, I do do not like to be around children of either sex (I have no children). Children bore me or are too demanding. Adults make for more pleasant company. Some men are cut out to be fathers and mentors, some are not.

FullMoon said...

I knew a guy over eighty years old, who, in the late forties, early fifties, spent time in San Quentin penitentiary.

In a casual conversation a couple of years before he died in 2007,he said; "The Doctors in the Joint said I am a sociopath?"

It was a statement and a question. Fifty years later, he did not know what a sociopath was. He seemed pretty genial to me, and he liked animals, so I don't know if he was or wasn't. Naturally I said I did not think he was. Of course I did not know him in the old days.

I did find his crime on the internet. Armed robbery of a bar, shootout with police.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JAORE said...

I was an engineer and, have what I call the math "bump". And I know several ways to approach most math issues. But, as noted above am not qualified to teach math in a school. I spent a great deal of time time correcting what my last son "learned" in high school math. Today he's pretty solid in the subject. In fact, in high school he would gather with kids struggling in class and help straighten them out. I have been brought up short several times at just how BAD teachers are in math. I swear some of them are frightened by the subject.

I'm not near that 1% category financially, but we get by better than I ever thought possible growing up. Can't teach, so, when asked, I tutor kids or adults in math. For free.

As to the fear of child molestation accusations in schools, I believe it. I've been a coach or assistant coach for my sons varied sports interests over the years. The background checks and required references grew larger every year.

Michael K said...

"Fifty years later, he did not know what a sociopath was. He seemed pretty genial to me, and he liked animals, "

I think a lot of sociopaths "burn out" as they age, sort of like the "Birdman of Alcatraz."

Vicious criminals, many of whom are sociopaths, should probably be locked up until they are 50.

It might be expensive and the legal profession would have a fit but it might save lives and property.

I remember when William Heirens was caught, his defense attorney and the prosecutor agreed he should never get out of prison. That, of course, would never be allowed now. My family knew the defense attorney.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"The whole notion of 'macho' and 'manliness' has eluded me all my life."
Y'know those things women ask you to do because they can't do them or don't want to do them because they are not feminine? Those are the "manly" things.
Also there are things men like to do, but women can't figure out why they like to do them, like pushing over half-rotten trees or picking up and moving big rocks.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I liked this comment and hope you see what's good about it. I anticipate that some of you are about to say terribly cynical things about men who go into the profession of teaching young children, and I hope you are man enough — or woman enough — to find better things to say.

You apparently know your commenters well enough to expect more of them than they're capable of.

rhhardin said...

Imus is about to interview Wheeler Walker Jr, whose latest album of country tunes Imus is fluttering and pearl-cluthing about (you can't play that on the radio, what is he thinking?).

WW seems to have captured the spirit and humor of male manliness. Amazon lists the song titles of his latest album Redneck Shit

Redneck Shit
Beer, Weed, Cooches
Family Tree
Can't Fuck You off My Mind
Fuck You Bitch
Drop 'Em Out
Eatin' Pussy/Kickin' Ass
Fightin', Fuckin', Fartin'
Better off Beatin' Off
Sit on My Face
Which One O' You Queers Gonna Suck My Dick?

Wait for the NYT coverage.

Who knows what it's like musically.

AllenS said...

I graduated from high school in 1964. Half of the teachers were men, and most of them were veterans. Days long gone by.

Glen Filthie said...

I have absolutely no respect for public educators, male or female. The vast majority are unionized pooch screwers posing as professionals. If I had my way public schools would be burned to the ground with the teachers inside, and the earth would be salted afterward.

Those people don't give a hoot about the kids and their academics prove it...

I Callahan said...

You apparently know your commenters well enough to expect more of them than they're capable of.

Except that not one, single comment, in the entire thread, was guilty of what the professor seemed to think would happen. And although it didn't happen, you and the rest of the lefty commenters not only didn't acknowledge that, are still acting as though it is going to happen. I expect you, Inga and others to not have any shame, but as for Professor Althouse - she should be either embarrassed by how little she knows about her commenters, or ashamed of herself for thinking what she did.

Ugly, to say the least.

JML said...

I did some sub teaching for a few years when I was in Grad School -- but it was a second MS so I was in my late 30s. I enjoyed it for the most part. I enjoyed most the 1st and 2nd graders. K was too hard and HS sucked -- it was all babysitting. I mostly taught in my local district so I knew most of the kids and teaches which made it easier. I ended up subbing a lot in the behavior disorder class - the disorder for most of the kids not bad behavior, but emotional issues -- one child was in an automobile accident and saw her father die, one child was abused when younger, etc. They needed a little extra attention and understanding, but for the most part, I thought they acted very similar to the gifted kids that age. (Both my sons were in the gifted program.) I also tried doing some volunteer work with the local GS troop, but it was uncomfortable -- I never felt like I was trusted because I was a man. And one time they asked about teaching 13 and 14 year old girls how to properly use birth control...sorry, too far out of my comfort zone back then. And now, for that matter. Unless they were mine.

Rick Turley said...

Rhnardin -

"Imus is about to interview Wheeler Walker Jr, whose latest album of country tunes Imus is fluttering and pearl-cluthing about (you can't play that on the radio, what is he thinking?)."

"Drop Em Out" is a real toe tapper. Ham hockers was a new one for me. There's a whole sub-genre out there. Scuzz Twittly is another similar artist. Probably the most successful commercially is Rodney Carrington whose "Show Them to Me" live performance on YouTube is hoot(er). David Allen Coe has some pretty filthy stuff that too much for me.