February 7, 2017

"The reality of the difficulty of getting things done is sinking in. Democrats are feeling much better that there’s some chance of success."

Said Senator Chuck Schumer, quoted in the NYT article "From ‘Repeal’ to ‘Repair’: Campaign Talk on Health Law Meets Reality."

118 comments:

Birkel said...

"From ‘Repeal’ to ‘Repair’: Campaign Talk on Health Law Meets Reality." for the first time ever.

Those five words must not have fit.

damikesc said...

Does Schumer not realize the GOP can do nothing and just let the law collapse and die on its own?

AReasonableMan said...

TrumpCare, RyanCare, RepubliCare: they all sound good to me.

AReasonableMan said...

damikesc said...
Does Schumer not realize the GOP can do nothing and just let the law collapse and die on its own?


Genius! A guaranteed vote winner.

damikesc said...

Genius! A guaranteed vote winner.

Let's say all Republican options are killed by Dems and the law dies.

Who's fault is that? The GOP didn't make the law and were prevented from fixing it.

So...it's on the Democrats alone.

DanTheMan said...

>>Who's fault is that?

Bush, or Trump.

AReasonableMan said...

You should meet Dr Krauthammer.

PB said...

Of course, Chuckie-boy fails to mention that the only reason they've been able to delay thus far is because of Senate rules, which can be changed or suspended by a simple majority. Remember the Harry Reid nuclear option, Chuckie?

AprilApple said...

I want the corrupt loser Paul Krugman Gruber Government out of my life-Care.

AprilApple said...

Democrats pass a party line D-vote lie that gave the top 8 insurance companies our tax dollars in the form of a bailout, (media ignore) and the left are desperate to call it GOP-care. LOL.

Just trash it so we can have free-market care.

Danno said...

At a minimum, they should create legislation, even if it is later replaced, to allow people to buy policies with a less rich essential benefits set and to not allow people who drop to re-enter without a penalty or a valid reason. And how about a change to create high-risk pools to relieve the cost pressures on the individual market.

Sebastian said...

Repair was always most likely. Once you give people goodies, they want to keep them. Once you bribe 'm, you gotta keep at it. Subsidies, Medicaid expansion, stay on mom and dad's insurance until 26 -- they'll continue. Of course, a really bold GOP would go for, gasp, the French or Dutch system.

Once written, twice... said...

When will the House Republicans bring a bill to a vote in their chamber? When will Trump share his plan for what will replace the ACA if it is repealed? No, this is all on Republicans and they know it. And the idea that they will get it done next year right before the midterm elections is a hoot!!

We will see Trump's tax returns before we see his plans for healthcare.

AprilApple said...

Affordable Care that Isn't Affordable.

Phil 3:14 said...

Any large bill that will "fix" Healthcare is a vote loser.

Matthew Sablan said...

"So...it's on the Democrats alone."

-- How has that ever worked out for Republicans ever? ... Actually, looking at the midterms, I guess fairly well, as a recent thing, huh?

Tommy Duncan said...

This discussion reveals why Trump won the Presidency. People regard health insurance as a serious personal issue with considerable physical and financial impact on their lives. The GOP and the Democrats see it as a purely political issue. Trump wants to fix the Obamacare mess. Members of Congress (both parties) just want to be reelected.

Jupiter said...

The difficulty Republicans face in dealing with the ACA is that while it is almost universally hated and reviled, it is also extremely popular.

This is because the individual mandate, and the phoney-baloney "exchanges", where they try to sell you policies that cost a fortune and don't cover anything that ever happens to you, are rightly hated and reviled. But the fact that you can't be turned down just because you waited until you were sick to sign up is extremely popular. Like having your cake and eating it too, only fewer calories.

The difficulty, of course, as always with Socialism, is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money. And the astonishing recent electoral success of the Republican Party means that it falls to their lot to explain this fact, and its ramifications, to the American people.

Meanwhile, more and more people are discovering that you don't have to pay the silly "tax" penalty if you don't want to. Just claim one of the 20-odd "exemptions". No one at the IRS is checking, and no documentation is required. So, the mandate is a dead letter. My guess is that they will thrash around a couple dozen different "plans", and eventually vote for the some minor tweaks to the status quo, with additional government subsidies. Then they can blame the inevitable collapse of the system on the insurance companies, when they withdraw from the exchanges due to catastrophic losses. Which only serves them right, for getting in bed with the God-damned Communist Obama in the first place. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

Is this a great country, or what?

Gusty Winds said...

Once again, we the voters hand the GOP everything they need to advance their agenda and they turn in press beaten pussies. No different that the 2015-2016 GOP field Trump was able to dominate.

Why are they afraid of the press and the Dems when their voting base thinks both are completely full of shit, and they have now pulled in blue collar union people into the mix?

Maybe it's because they take campaign money from Soros.

Once written, twice... said...

...And then we will get a national universal healthcare system. If Republicans don't repeal the ACA then they will give it their stamp of approval allowing Democrats to go even further the next time they are in power.

The plan is working.

Amadeus 48 said...

Jupiter, thou speakest truth. What to do? The GOP has a big sales job on any reform or replacement. Now comes the hard part.

Once written, twice... said...

Why won't Trump release his plan to fix healthcare? He said during the campaign that it was the BEST plan and that it would deliver healthcare to more people for less money. Why doesn't he now share that plan?

Can you blame Republicans in Congress for not wanting to go out on the limb here?

khesanh0802 said...

It's so damn shocking that there should be differences of opinion on how to correct the problems of health insurance coverage/care in this country. We should, like the Democrats, be in lockstep toward the "ultimate solution'. We are two weeks into the Trump presidency and we should have solved all the problems created in 8 years (really most of the legislative problems in the first two years) of Obama's incompetence. I mean, Jesus, get a grip!

AReasonableMan said...

Once written, twice... said...
Why won't Trump release his plan to fix healthcare? He said during the campaign that it was the BEST plan and that it would deliver healthcare to more people for less money. Why doesn't he now share that plan?


It's a secret magical plan, unicorns and leprechauns magically transform the most inefficient and expensive health care system in the world into a magical marketplace, where people can now magically afford overpriced health care.

Charlie Currie said...

Unless and until the Senate exercises the Reed Option and kills the filibuster for all legislation, nothing...NOTHING...will change. So the House might as well write a different version of a repeal and replace bill every week, send it to the Senate and let it be filibustered by the Dems. This would at least let the voting public see that the Repubs do have ideas regarding the replacement - some good, some not so good, some awful - and then see what happens in 2018.

Charlie Currie said...

AReasonableMan said:

"It's a secret magical plan, unicorns and leprechauns magically transform the most inefficient and expensive health care system in the world into a magical marketplace, where people can now magically afford overpriced health care."

That's the best description of the ACA I have ever read. Congrats

Original Mike said...

Blogger Danno said..."At a minimum, they should create legislation, even if it is later replaced, to allow people to buy policies with a less rich essential benefits set and to not allow people who drop to re-enter without a penalty or a valid reason. And how about a change to create high-risk pools to relieve the cost pressures on the individual market."

Yep. There's your reform plan right there.

Once written, twice... said...

Charlie Currie, why won't Trump release his GREAT plan? Is it asking too much for him to lead?

Original Mike said...

Perhaps Trump is waiting for the Dow to pass 20k.

Once written, twice... said...

You should have taken that bet Original Mike.

AReasonableMan said...

Charlie Currie said...
That's the best description of the ACA I have ever read.


It's called TrumpCare now, or RyanCare or RepubliCare, your choice.

Original Mike said...

I did make that bet, Once. It's called my portfolio.

Birkel said...

I accepted the bet, although you were too chicken to negotiate terms.

Notice that all of the comments above are about process. Obama, Pelosi and Reid made the reconstruction of the law they passed on a party line vote as difficult as possible. The plan was for massive failure in some Nth year out. But the failure occurred sooner than expected. But the process discussion allows the failure and blame to be rhetorically shifted.

Nobody can make an argument for the success of the law. It is an abject failure on its own terms. So we will read and hear lots about process.

Once written, twice... said...

I was just getting you Althouse Hillbillies all lathered up. Good luck with your stock bets. You will need it.

Matthew Sablan said...

"But the failure occurred sooner than expected"

-- They tried to buy time by unilaterally deciding not to enforce some things, and managing to argue something was both a tax and not a tax mattering on what was more beneficial at the time. But, alas, every colossus eventually buckles under its own glory.

Birkel said...

"AReasonableMan":

Please point to the part of the law passed by Obama, Pelosi, Reid and Democrats that increased the provision of medical care, please.

All I can find are provisions that change who pays for what if a person can find a doctor inclined to provide care.

AReasonableMan said...

Birkel said...
Nobody can make an argument for the success of the law.


Lowest level of uninsured in US history.

Original Mike said...

A kot of people "made that bet". Has Once paid anyone yet? Of course not. There's no way to do so.

Original Mike said...

"I was just getting you Althouse Hillbillies all lathered up. Good luck with your stock bets. You will need it."

So now the prediction is that the stock market will go down at some unspecified point in the future. Boy, that's really going out on a limb.

Once written, twice... said...

Birkel, why doesn't Trump release his self discribed GREAT plan?

The ACA has been bigly successful. It has given 20 million more people healthcare coverage. If was given more time to work it would be even more successful. But now Republicans are trashing it.

At least it is on them.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Obstruction is great again! Dissent is patriotic again! The Media has a sacred duty to research and oppose and expose those in power again!

Man, things sure do change fast when the President doesn't have a (D) after his name.

Birkel said...

"AReasonableMan":

You did not attempt what I asked of you. Please cite an example of increased care.

You tried to prove success by pointing to who will pay. That is a useless metric.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Lowest level of uninsured in US history."

--> How many of those newly insured people are actually benefitting from their policies and not merely buying a policy that they do not need or want to be in compliance with a law? How many people were previously insured under a better policy now have less insurance? How much of that is actually caused by the ACA and not other factors (Medicare, etc.)?

Original Mike said...

Blogger Danno said..."At a minimum, they should create legislation, even if it is later replaced, to allow people to buy policies with a less rich essential benefits set and to not allow people who drop to re-enter without a penalty or a valid reason. And how about a change to create high-risk pools to relieve the cost pressures on the individual market."

Throw in purchasing plans across state lines and you probably have the Price plan. I'm not worried about a plan. I am concerned they won't get it through the Senate without going nuclear.

AprilApple said...

ARM - the desperate progressive, is spinning for his corrupt and miserable party of lies.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

AReasonableMan said...It's a secret magical plan, unicorns and leprechauns magically transform the most inefficient and expensive health care system in the world into a magical marketplace, where people can now magically afford overpriced health care.

Naah, nothing like that: he'll just set up a plan that gives "free" stuff away to millions of people, front load the benefits, back load the costs, sell the plan with a pricetag based on wholly unrealistic assumptions, delay even the modest enforcement mechanisms from taking place (in clear violation of the written statute) by executive decree, make many entirely unsupportable claims regarding the benefit of the plan to the "average household," and then ride the popularity of those moves to re-election.
Sounds pretty far fetched, huh?

Birkel said...

Once written:

You measure success for health care by pointing to the number of people who have a promise to pay from a third party. How does that improve care?

Do you think insurance companies provide care?

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
How much of that is actually caused by the ACA and not other factors (Medicare, etc.)?


The expansion of medicare coverage under the ACA is, by definition, part of the ACA.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

AReasonableMan said...Lowest level of uninsured in US history.

Super. Trump should pass a law making unemployment illegal, then create a massive jobs program (paid for by the Federal Gov) to hire folks to dig ditches, etc. Boom--lowest unemployment in US history! Why has no one thought of that before??

Original Mike said...

"If was given more time to work it would be even more successful."

If it was given more time, all 50 states would have only one participating insurer.

Birkel said...

"AReasonableMan":

How much more care comes from expanding payments through Medicare? Are more doctors now accepting Medicare patients? Are they working longer hours?

Show me the increased medical care.

Matthew Sablan said...

Between the ACA (bending the cost curve down and the level of care up), and the stimulus, Obama should go down in history as a failed president as -- even the metrics he claimed to use to measure the success of his domestic programs -- he failed on. But, I'm sure that's not how history will be written.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The expansion of medicare coverage under the ACA is, by definition, part of the ACA."

-- How much of it though; Medicare was going to grow with or without the ACA.

Birkel said...

Matthew Sablan:

I believe you are wrong about history. I believe history will be remarkably unkind to Obama, as it is to Jimmy Carter.

The measurements of his failures are close at hand.

AprilApple said...

Break up the top mega insurance companies and allow smaller insurance companies to flourish and thrive, offering plans that work for everyone at every level.

Nope - leftwing grifters will not allow.

Once written, twice... said...

History is going to be incredibly kind to President Obama.

Now it doesn't hurt that he has Bush and especially Trump book ending his presidency.

AReasonableMan said...

Once written, twice... said...
Now it doesn't hurt that he has Bush and especially Trump book ending his presidency.


Here I beg to differ. It is statistically unlikely that Trump can be an even worse president than Bush Jr, given that Bush Jr is a solid candidate for most unsuccesful president in US history. Trump could easily make into the bottom 10 without threatening Bush Jr's record.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I believe you are wrong about history."

-- Maybe; we'll all be dead or dying by the time we can cash in on that bet though, unless something major happens soon (like Iran bombs someone).

Original Mike said...

"The expansion of medicare coverage under the ACA is, by definition, part of the ACA."

There are pieces of the ACA are necessary. It's a complete clusterfuck because to address a small population in need they upended the entire apple cart.

Birkel said...

I plan to live quite a bitter longer, Matthew Sablan. And I wish you the same!

Michael K said...

Well, I learned where the lefties hang out today. All the GOP needs to do is make Obamacare optional and restore real insurance.

The sky high deductibles have already led to a significant growth in cash medical practices for primary care.

Medicare and most insurance contracts prevent discounted medical charges and with Medicare, they are illegal.

So, because Obamacare is not really insurance, many doctors are dropping all insurance and getting rid of back offices, which in some specialties are 60% of overhead just to bill and collect insurance,

Obamacare is just Medicaid with higher income limits.

Real insurance will come back and solve 85% of the problems. Risk pools will take care of the 3& who are uninsurable.

AprilApple said...

The left vilify vilify vilify - persuade with lies and guilt and bogus economics - that's the leftwing prog method.

the top mega insurance companies climbed into bed with Obama and his crap ACA, and all you hear out of the collective left is "we blame the horrible insurance companies."

Matthew Sablan said...

"There are pieces of the ACA are necessary. It's a complete clusterfuck because to address a small population in need they upended the entire apple cart."

-- Obama could have had a huge win with three things: 1. Protect people with Pre-existing conditions (yes, the Republicans would've voted to approve this); 2. Cross-state insurance markets; 3. Allow adults up to 26 or so on their parents' insurance (another thing Republicans would've checked off on).

Those three things would have been hugely popular (even if #1 might be hard for insurance companies to deal with), and he could have had a huge, bi-partisan policy win. Instead, we got the ACA.

AprilApple said...

ACA was designed to punish and collapse. .... SINGLE PAYER 100% tax payer funded government run care - to the rescue.

Leftwing Fascists celebrate. Hollywood rich enough to escape.

mockturtle said...

Schumer needs to take a long walk off a short pier.

CWJ said...

Mathew Sablan,

Pre-existing conditions are not hard for insurance companies to deal with. Insurance companies can price just about anything. They're just not profitable. Hence they and other mandated coverages, and increased costs of compliance, and ... blew up premiums and the individual health insurance market along with them.

AReasonableMan said...

Some unique and valuable contributions once again from AprilApple. Well done April.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Hey onesie you're back! Did Meade have to make you swallow or are you the "spitting is quitting" type like Inga and Chuck?

damikesc said...

It's called TrumpCare now, or RyanCare or RepubliCare, your choice.

Nothing says "sensible policy" like trying to blame it on others as soon as possible.

Love how it's "Republicare" when zero Republicans voted for it.

damikesc said...

Simply allowing nationwide selling of policies would resolve a ton of issues. Massively expanded risk pools would be better than the current system.

Drago said...

Once written: "Good luck with your stock bets. You will need it."

Why are you picking on Krugman?

After all, he was "right" and prescient for nearly 8 hours on election night before his market-will-never-recover prediction went kaboom!

Even funnier is the talking point disconnect between ARM and Once Written.

With republicans having touched nothing at all of the Democrat Unicorn bill ARM is hilariously desperate to relabel it as Trumpcare right now all the while Once is flitting about raving of Obamacare success despite its catastrophic electoral impact on dems!

Lol

The Dems can't even effectuvely organize a pizza party right about now.

On top of that Da Mayor Ballerina Boy had to pour cold water on the Dems hopes for 2018!

Carry on losers! Please do carry on!

mockturtle said...

Some unique and valuable contributions once again from AprilApple. Well done April.

Et tu, Brute.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Lol

The Dems can't even effectuvely organize a pizza party right about now.

Ever since somebody found John podesta's Pizza related map it's been tough to operate without any cover. Children's orifices everywhere are grateful.

khesanh0802 said...

If the Feds keep track of the "insured" the way they keep track of the unemployed there should be two sets of books. The first includes all the new insurance enrollees (never mind whether they actually pay their premiums or not), the second which we will never see subtracts those who no longer carry insurance, damn the consequences. If the numbers are comparable to the unemployment numbers (U-6) the Dems destroyed the health care market for an increase of 10 million - maybe- insured who may, or may not, actually be paying premiums and have continuing coverage.

MN has had to appropriate $325 million this year to offset 25% of premium costs for those who can't afford the balances due after subsidies - if any. The projection for a similar requirement for next year is in the neighborhood of $450 million. Premiums went up 50% on average '16 to '17. The same is anticipated for next year. Between government employee pensions and subsidizing health care there will be nothing left in the MN budget.

April Apple is 100% correct. This system was designed to fail and be replaced by single-payer. Fortunately the American people don't want that and those who would push that will be out of politics quickly - note the results over the last eight years. Of course there were some popular ideas in the ACA and they will be retained. The popular ideas are massively out weighed by the unpopular. Do you think the unions are in favor of the Cadillac tax which has been pushed out to 2020? Think about that. If it's such a great idea why delay it 10 (!!!) years? Given my Mn example there's a good chance that the Cadillac tax will be added to the MN budget as well. How long can responsible people hide their heads in the sand? Not forever, I hope.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The Dems can't even effectuvely organize a pizza party right about now"

-- How's the Coffee Party going?

Michael K said...

Simply allowing nationwide selling of policies would resolve a ton of issues. Massively expanded risk pools would be better than the current system.

That's about 2/3 of the solution.

The French allow free care for a list of pre-existing and catastrophic condition, like diabetes, but the coverage is only for that condition, like cancer for example. If you get appendicitis, you have to go through the usual system, which in France consists of a market-based system. There is a basic payment to the doctor but you can negotiate fees if you want to go to someone more expensive,

Real catastrophic insurance which is cheap, would solve a lot of the uninsured among the young, like one of my kids.

Original Mike said...

"Real catastrophic insurance which is cheap, would solve a lot of the uninsured among the young, like one of my kids."

Outlawing catastrophic insurance is the poster child of what's wrong, both economically and morally, with the ACA.

Big Mike said...

@khesahn0802, and the reason why we Americans don't want single payer is that we already have single payer and it's called the Veterans Health Administration. Under Obama, it killed people.

cubanbob said...

For the poor there is Medicaid. And that should only be for citizens. For the rest of us, get rid of the ban on interstate health insurance so individuals can buy what they need and gap insurance and or income replacement policies as well if they want to as part of their health insurance package.

Alex said...

All I hear from Democrats is impeach Trump.

Known Unknown said...

"Lowest level of uninsured in US history."

Amazing what the word "mandatory" can do.

tcrosse said...

All I hear from Democrats is impeach Trump.
For what ? The high crime and misdemeanor of not being Hillary Clinton ?

AReasonableMan said...

damikesc said...
Love how it's "Republicare" when zero Republicans voted for it.


Missing the point. Whether they do nothing or something Republicans, because they made such an insane fuss about what were relatively modest changes, now own the whole thing and they have to make it better.

Birkel said...

That's right.
If Republicans make a fuss about Democrat screw ups, they own them.
If Republicans make no fuss, Democrats get their policies.

Heads: Democrats win.
Tails: Democrats win.
Lands on its Edge: America gets cornholed.

AReasonableMan said...

The Dems ruined, I say, ruined healthcare and now we are all anxiously awaiting the Republicans to save us from the trauma that is the ACA. They own it now because they promised to 'fix' it.

CWJ said...

"...they made such an insane fuss about what were relatively modest changes,..."

The ACA was relatively modest changes?

Yes ARM, someone is indeed insane, but it's not the "fuss."

AReasonableMan said...

Wait to you see what the Republicans want to do to medicare. Trust me, not modest changes.

Michael said...

once written.....

Dow is over 20K again. Two or three times since your insane and stupid prediction which you were too chicken to bet on.

CWJ said...

ARM @ 6:20,

You're making a political argument without addressing the issue. The original issue was the premise that health insurance represented a "problem" that required federal government intervention. It was no such thing! By intervening the Democrats did indeed ruin the individual health insurance market. Having done so, now what? I think the problem we face is the result of federal intervention in the first place. The genie is out! How do the Republicans put the Genie back in the bottle? Saying the Republicans own the solution is like saying all the King's horses and men are at fault for humpty dumpty. I hope we end up with something better than what we have now. But all you want to do is play partisan politics.

CWJ said...

The Republicans have been stealing granny's SS check and pushing her over the cliff in her wheelchair for as long as they've collectively been Hitler. Address the question. Don't change the subject.

AReasonableMan said...

No. Sick people couldn't get health insurance. Poor people couldn't afford health insurance. Health care costs were rising too fast. There was no systematic way to record epidemiological data, which is some of the most useful data for ultimately improving health care.

These were all real world problems. The ACA addressed each of these problems. You may not like the solutions but they didn't just create problems out of thin air.

AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
Address the question. Don't change the subject.


When were you assigned hall monitor?

Alex said...

ARM - would you prefer NHS-style single payer system?

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
ARM - would you prefer NHS-style single payer system?


The NHS works much better than the mythology over here pretends. The Brits had a whole section of the Olympic opening ceremony devoted to their love for the NHS. Can't imagine any one getting rhapsodic about the US health care system.

I have dealt with public health systems in Australia and Italy. Both are excellent. Can't see how that happens here. Our system is massively overpriced. The first step, getting prices down, involves a huge fight with the MDs, nurses, etc. Not sure how that would happen, since the MDs feel very entitled, having spent so much time and money on their education. Currently we get average quality care at Cadillac prices. That is the fundamental problem. It functions as a huge tax on business and the middle class.

Alex said...

ARM...

The cost of becoming a doctor in the UK

220K pounds.

How is that any better than what it costs to become a doctor in USA? At least in the US, doctors can be profitable at a certain point. In the NHS, you're a slave to the grave.

CWJ said...

ARM @ 7:14,

"Sick people couldn't get health insurance." Self refuting. They could not be denied healthcare. You don't understand the word insurance.

"Poor people couldn't afford health insurance." And the insurance they can afford now has any practical value? I swear any tax increase I faced due to Medicaid expansion would be a pittance compared to my 75% increase in monthly health premiums.

"Health care costs were rising too fast." Leaving aside the loaded word "too," what has the ACA done to slow them.

"There was no systematic way to record epidemiological data, which is some of the most useful data for ultimately improving health care." And we needed the ACA to do this why? Why wasn't the CDC ON this earlier if indeed we needed federal intervention to track this.

Alex said...

Why do we continue this charade of calling it 'insurance'? It's some kind of a thing that you pay into that provides your maintenance care. In no other area of life(auto, home, liability) is this the case. What is so special about health care that it should be beyond catastrophic? Everyone should pay out of pocket for annual exams, scans and so on.

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
220K pounds


That is the cost to the system to train an MD, not the personal cost to the physician.

damikesc said...

The first step, getting prices down, involves a huge fight with the MDs, nurses, etc. Not sure how that would happen, since the MDs feel very entitled, having spent so much time and money on their education.

What other jobs should have caps on salaries?

AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
They could not be denied healthcare.


And were regularly bankrupted by that care.

And the insurance they can afford now has any practical value?

They now get Medicare, which is of immense value.

what has the ACA done to slow them

Since the introduction of the ACA the rate of increase in health care costs has fallen significantly. It was designed to do this. Whether it was good luck or good management, the facts are the facts.

Why wasn't the CDC ON this earlier if indeed we needed federal intervention to track this.

Because it required a huge investment in infrastructure.

Alex said...

Yeah apparently MDs are so sacred that they should make peanuts. But CEOs can make $100 million/year.

AReasonableMan said...

damikesc said...
What other jobs should have caps on salaries?


Most public service positions.

Alex said...

weasel. 'public service positions'. Defines who? How is a senior software engineer who creates the new breakthrough algorithm that changes the world not a 'public service'? Or an architect who designs a new kind of bridge? Funny how socialists like to put everything in a nice, neat little box so they can control it from top-down government.

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
Yeah apparently MDs are so sacred that they should make peanuts. But CEOs can make $100 million/year.


MDs do not make peanuts. If they want to make CEO money they should become a CEO.

Jon Ericson said...

AReasonableGruber

CWJ said...

Alex @ 7:39,

I agree. A number of reasons. I could go on for a number of paragraphs. But at root no one wants to face their own mortality.* Mommy may be gone, and can no longer kiss the boo boo and make it better, but people want a life of ignoring the health consequences of their actions by having Uncle Sam and his taxpayers kiss the boo boo and make it better. Coldhearted? I suppose it appears so. But I've helped the robbed and beaten by the side of the road far more than those who passed by and felt they've done their duty by dialing 911 and passing it of to government.

* - Ironic given how ARM goes on about how we should embrace our mortality.

AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
Coldhearted?


Republicans should have no trouble selling this to the American public.

CWJ said...

ARM @ 7:50,

OK. Nonresponsive to the actual comment.

But I think I'll let those following this thread draw their own conclusions. I'm done.

AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
Nonresponsive to the actual comment.


Despite your tired and trite arguments I responded in good faith. You are an idiot.

Birkel said...

How does who pays (insurance) create health care? Do bureaucrats write prescriptions?

Conflating issues is great fun.

CWJ said...

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind the next time you happen to complain about personal attacks.

Birkel said...

My ability to afford Geico means I get a car?

AReasonableMan said...

And I will remember you unwillingness to engage in an actual argument with actual facts.

Birkel said...

I want you to pay a small portion of your income for my car, "AReasonableMan". I can pay Geico's rates.

AReasonableMan said...

No amount of argument is going to change the fact that once the Republicans start screwing with the health care system they will 'own' it. It is a mess. It was modestly improved by the ACA. Let's see what the Republicans can achieve.

Birkel said...

You keep using the term health care as if it were interchangeable with the word insurance. Please choose to discuss one thing at a time.

Jupiter said...

It pains me to say it, ARM, but I'm afraid you are mostly right this evening. No one can possibly come up with a workable plan that retains the popular parts of ACA, eliminates the unpopular parts, and is solvent. The fact is, giving people all the "health care" they want is insanely expensive. When you have inflexible demand, you will have expensive supply. Look at education. The government always tries to deal with high prices by providing more money. Which is like dealing with a house fire by providing more gasoline.

I am not so sure about your political analysis. I suspect that both parties will manage to attempt much and achieve little, in ways they can plausibly blame upon each other. No one is going to force wealthy Americans to do without expensive medical care, and no one is going to find a way to provide that same level of care to everyone. I will forgive the GOPs, you will forgive the Dems, and huge amounts of money will continue to be wasted on utterly worthless "medical care". What's not to like?

AReasonableMan said...

Jupiter said...
No one is going to force wealthy Americans to do without expensive medical care


This is the one group that can afford to opt out of any system and actually engage in a market for health care. They pay through the nose for health care that is not clearly better than that provided by the local public hospital, except in terms of peripheral factors, convenience/luxury. There are good competent people scattered throughout the medical system. Price and performance are not clearly correlated or easily correlated.