February 11, 2017

"Influential Mexicans are pushing an aggressive and perhaps risky strategy to fight a likely increase in deportations of their undocumented compatriots in the U.S...."

"... jam U.S. immigration courts in hopes of causing the already overburdened system to break down. The proposal calls for ad campaigns advising migrants in the U.S. to take their cases to court and fight deportation if detained.... Mexico’s government hasn’t endorsed the strategy or the group’s Phoenix mission. But it recently allocated some $50 million to assist undocumented migrants facing deportation, and President Enrique Peña Nieto has instructed the country’s 50 consulates in the U.S. to defend migrants.... Going through the courts, however, entails risks for undocumented emigrants, who may be held in U.S. detention centers for months while the deportation process plays out instead of being quickly sent back to Mexico...."

The Wall Street Journal reports.

The top-rated comment there is:
I will challenge any naive, progressive US liberal, to try to go to Mexico, stay as an illegal and try to benefit from the system. He would incarcerated and lucky if he is released in one piece. Liberal Americans are not just naive, they are quite stupid too.
NOTE: I am temporarily undisplaying the comments to this post. There are over 300, and perhaps half of them need to be deleted. We are going to this extra effort because we appreciate the contributions of the good faith commenters. If your comment ends up being deleted, that doesn't mean we necessarily consider you a bad faith commenter, only that you got caught up in a bad situation (perhaps pushing back against the phenomenon that we are deleting to eliminate. Basically, a few commenters took this place over for a personal back and forth that pushed out interesting discussion. As I've put it in the note above the comment composition window: "[T]ry to be responsive to the post, don't make personal attacks on other commenters, bring some substance or humor to the conversation...." Resist attacking the individual, because it can produce a back and forth that the attacked person may enjoy. It ruins the thread. Everyone already knows don't feed the troll. It doesn't matter whether a given person really is a troll — that is, actually wants to wreck the good conversation. Don't do personal back and forth.

164 comments:

HT said...

The comment from the WSJ is interesting because on other comment boards, I've read that it is fairly easy to work illegally in many places, not just the US. I have worked in Mexico. As far as signing up for benefits, of course that is a different kettle of fish entirely. I would imagine that state benefits to Mexicans are quite weak, but I'm not overly familiar with what they are and how reliable they are to citizens, let alone non. There is rampant corruption that depletes state coffers, not news to anyone I know, but thought I'd point out the obvious.

chickelit said...

Lots of dollars and pesos at stake. Renumeration back to Mexico are a significant portion of Mexico's GDP. I would expect them to fight tooth and nail.

rehajm said...

Going through the courts, however, entails risks for undocumented emigrants, who may be held in U.S. detention centers for months while the deportation process plays out instead of being quickly sent back to Mexico...."

Break a few huevos and stuff.

chickelit said...

The judicial Cloward-Piven strategy isn't going to play well either with Americans. The Mexicans are taking a huge gamble.

AlbertAnonymous said...

We're either a nation of laws or we're not. Deportation is a way to enforce the law.

But I'm sure a 9th circuit judge can stop this all now with a simple order. Heck the state of California can apparently sue the federal government on behalf of illegals since they will likely be UC students some day, and deporting them must impact some constitutional right or another. After all, judges just seem to find constitutional rights that no ones ever read in the constitution before (abortion/gay marriage) even while ignoring those that explicitly exist (what does "shall not be infringed" mean to you?).

And we know Eric Holder has been hired by the state of California to fight the president and his every move.

Commander Crankshaft said...

I will challenge any naive, progressive US liberal, to try to go to Mexico, stay as an illegal and try to benefit from the system.

Oh, I know. It's costing us almost as many trillions as those tax cuts and wars.

I have every confidence that Trump and Co. will blow up the deficit.

Gusty Winds said...

No compassion in Mexico where they could create an environment where their fleeing citizens are welcomed home? If you really look at this attitude/reaction, what does it say about Mexico's gov't?

Your own country doesn't want you to come home?

damikesc said...

The proposal calls for ad campaigns advising migrants in the U.S. to take their cases to court and fight deportation if detained.... Mexico’s government hasn’t endorsed the strategy or the group’s Phoenix mission. But it recently allocated some $50 million to assist undocumented migrants facing deportation, and President Enrique Peña Nieto has instructed the country’s 50 consulates in the U.S. to defend migrants

Would ANY country tolerate their neighbor trying to send their poor to them and then cause issues when they are being removed? What right does Mexico have to spend millions to defend illegals being tossed out of a country?

Should we offer to fund challenges to their system from their Southern neighbors? We can more easily wreck their system than they can wreck ours.

And, you know, Gitmo has been cleaned out. We can just send the illegals there.

Michael K said...

The "Jamming the Courts" will provide a nice concentration of illegals for a "one fell swoop" approach. And I understand Guantanamo is almost empty.

Big Mike said...

We get to keep the most hard-working and law-abiding and the Mexicans get everyone else back. Sounds like a real good deal to me. If the Mexicans don't like it perhaps they could pay the USA to build a wall ...

PB said...

Cloward-Piven Strategy variant.

traditionalguy said...

So the El Patrone's plan is Judicial Review. The el Quinto and Decimocuarte Amendments provide for it in plain Mexican.

traditionalguy said...

The Mexican ruling class doesn't want an invasion of the uneducated peasants they recently got rid of.

Gahrie said...

I have every confidence that Trump and Co. will blow up the deficit.

Our deficit is already predicted to rise back to $1 trillion using Obama's budget.

Since when does the deficit matter?

Bush 43 doubled the debt from $5 trillion to $10 Trillion, and then Obama doubled it again from $10 trillion to $20 trillion....are you predicting that Trump will double it again to $40 trillion?

rehajm said...

Cover 4 is an effective defense against a flooded zone.

Zone blitz works, too.

roesch/voltaire said...

I like that now felons are the ones being deported and not the working mom in Phoenix. Another good sigh is that White House is working on a revised EO which will be more considered and specific in who is to be banned etc.

Original Mike said...

"But [the Mexican government] recently allocated some $50 million to assist undocumented migrants facing deportation..."

This just floors me. Nieto says that the wall is an "insult" to Mexico. I get that Trump's crusade to have Mexico pay for it may be insulting, but how is U.S. border protection itself insulting? Mexico's position is morally bankrupt.

Gahrie said...

Mexico simply cannot afford to support the twenty million poor, uneducated Mexican citizens living in the United States.

It also cannot do without the $20 billion+ dollars a year those Mexican citizens send back to Mexico every year.

If we want to get anything done we have to start heavily taxing the electronic remittances and cash taken across the border.

Gahrie said...

I like that now felons are the ones being deported and not the working mom in Phoenix

I hate to be the one to break it to you...but that Phoenix mom was a convicted felon...............

Sebastian said...

Look, I'd like us to have good relations with Mexico. But their obvious, long-standing, continued support for rampant law-breaking by their nationals in and against the U.S. is simply insulting. It has to stop. Trump's way, if no other will do.

Michael K said...

Another good sigh is that White House is working on a revised EO which will be more considered and specific in who is to be banned etc.

I guess you missed the riots as she was picked up. That was next door to where I worked yesterday. I:m glad that Soros only paid for one day of rioting.

She was a felon convicted of identity theft.

The new rules for immigration will make the EO look like a Democrat drafted it. They used to call it "Rope a Dope."

Original Mike said...

"I hate to be the one to break it to you...but that Phoenix mom was a convicted felon..............."

Details, details, ...

Commander Crankshaft said...

Bush 43 doubled the debt from $5 trillion to $10 Trillion, and then Obama doubled it again from $10 trillion to $20 trillion....are you predicting that Trump will double it again to $40 trillion?

Trump will do everything in his power to create unregulated bubbles and crashes that the next president, probably a Democrat, will have to clean up. That's always how it works. In a crash the priority is recovery, not deficit reduction. If you had a brain you realize that the cutting happens when you can save for a rainy day. Not on the rainy day itself.

As incompetent and special-interest oriented as Trump is, he probably won't get it up to $40 trillion. But he will raise it. Without a doubt. It's the only thing Republican presidents can do. What makes it a shame is that they do it under good economic conditions granted to them by the previous Democrat, instead of taking advantage of the time to finally do some cutting, the way Clinton did.

This is all really straightforward stuff. It takes Republicans to not get it. But they owe their masters genuflection and that's the biggest priority. If you're rich, you're more important to them than the budget. That's just a fact, borne out by every one of them since Reagan.

Michael K said...

It's nice to se Ritmo make all these "educated" guesses about the future.

I read yesterday that McDonalds is nearing the end.

Better update that resume, Ritmo.

buwaya said...

Mexico is a nation looking out for its interests.
Morality in these things is irrelevant, but for the naive portions of the US public.
People do what they must, and laws are to keep the resulting disorder down to manageable levels.
This idea of jamming the courts may prove to be an effective delaying tactic, but the likely increase in prosecutions and incarcerations themselves would be a strong incentive to leave, or more likely not cross in the first place.
More, most of the recent border crossers arent Mexican at all. So there will be plenty to deport anyway.

Lucien said...

U.S. law regarding employment of illegal should be stringently enforced against employers until it becomes impossible for an illegal alien to get a job in the U.S. without first uttering forged identification documents -- possibly state and federal felonies. Punish every employer who has not been presented with facially valid ID, and every illegal who proffers forged ID.

Take fingerprints and DNA from everyone caught.

Increase the number of legal immigrants to the U.S. while taking fingerprints and DNA from everyone seeking to enter.

Make and enforce a lifetime ban on entry by anyone who has been caught while here illegally: no entry for any reason -- like coming to see a dying relative.

buwaya said...

Bubbles are usually the result of some regulation or market intervention that either creates perverse incentives, moral hazard, or prevents the working of the market to punish the over-exuberant.

Curious George said...

"roesch/voltaire said...
I like that now felons are the ones being deported and not the working mom in Phoenix. A

This is going to leave a mark:

"She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation."

FullMoon said...

"But [the Mexican government] recently allocated some $50 million to assist undocumented migrants facing deportation..."

50 million won't go far. Lawyer fee, $2500.00, fine and court costs, $10,000.00.
Will cover 400 cases.

Kevin said...

"Nieto says that the wall is an "insult" to Mexico. I get that Trump's crusade to have Mexico pay for it may be insulting, but how is U.S. border protection itself insulting?"

He meant exactly what he said. The wall itself is the insult. Pay or not, Mexico finds the need for its neighbor to put up a fence as a statement about Mexico.

And it is. It is an unflattering statement.

sunsong said...

It's sad that the right wingers continue to believe that treating people badly will somehow cause them to become better. It just doesn't work. Being mean or cruel or punitive does NOT lead to resolution. You might be able to scare people or hurt them and they will hate and resent you for it. And that's about all you accomplish with your macho actions.

HT said...

It just doesn't work. Being mean or cruel or punitive does NOT lead to resolution.

And not enforcing the laws and continuing to let things slide do?

Curious George said...

"Kevin said...
"Nieto says that the wall is an "insult" to Mexico. I get that Trump's crusade to have Mexico pay for it may be insulting, but how is U.S. border protection itself insulting?"

He meant exactly what he said. The wall itself is the insult. Pay or not, Mexico finds the need for its neighbor to put up a fence as a statement about Mexico.

And it is. It is an unflattering statement."

It is a statement about Mexico. It's a shit burger for most of its citizens. Maybe they should try sucking less. In the meantime, fuck off.

Fernandinande said...

traditionalguy said...
The Mexican ruling class doesn't want an invasion of the uneducated peasants they recently got rid of.


My two Mexican friends lived in walled compounds with armed guards before they moved here.

Some columns by an American guy living in Mexico; I don't think he has a walled compound.

Commander Crankshaft said...

Better update that resume, Ritmo.

You're the one who keeps accusing me of this. So you're the one who needs to update your lies and insults, Nursemaid Boy!

Just say that you hate the working class and that you feel the horrible service sector jobs (that our country excels in and will continue to excel in under swamp guy Trump) are a way to impugn other Americans' integrity and worth as a person. You don't need to bring me into it.

But I forgot. Michael Nursemaid Kennedy is someone who says it's a low blow to reference what someone else says publicly about themselves. He wants to deny people the right to reference public information and instead makes up insults to throw at other people, based on nothing other than how much contempt he has for service workers.

Is that how your nursemaid raised you to be? Or was it just in your genes? You know, the genes of parents who knew they weren't good enough to raise a kid and instead outsourced it to the nursemaid?

Eat some fast food and ponder that.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Kevin said..."He meant exactly what he said. The wall itself is the insult. Pay or not, Mexico finds the need for its neighbor to put up a fence as a statement about Mexico."

Thanks, Kevin. I didn't quite get that. I'm still surprised he's willing to say that explicitly.

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes I understand that using a fake SS number while working is a felony, but it hardly compares to the crimes that have been committed by the tugs deported yesterday. I doubt that the evil Soros is the one who managed the protest but if that helps one to dismiss the human kindness involved in this case of a women who has been working and supporting her family for what twenty years--so be it .

Bob Ellison said...

sunsong said, "It's sad that the right wingers continue to believe that treating people badly will somehow cause them to become better."

See, that right there is the trouble with lefties. Lefties think righties are trying to make people better people. That's the whole purpose of policy. "New Soviet Man" and all that. Lefties are so deeply invested in this philosophy-- that the purpose of government is to improve people-- that they project it onto everything they see.

sunsong, we don't believe we can make people better. We believe that proper policies can help the good people from the bad.

Consider, for example, the death penalty.

buwaya said...

Sunsong,
Im not sure the point is to make anyone better.
Where did that come from, as a desiderata?
It doesnt seem to follow from the thrust of the argument on this question, which is ultimately about a labor surplus.

It would help if you expanded on that. Better - in what way, why, how, qui bono.

FullMoon said...

sunsong said...

It's sad that the right wingers continue to believe that treating people badly will somehow cause them to become better. It just doesn't work. Being mean or cruel or punitive does NOT lead to resolution. You might be able to scare people or hurt them and they will hate and resent you for it. And that's about all you accomplish with your macho actions.



Really? Does that apply to your lefty gang rioting over a speech, forcing people out of business, shouting down speakers, publishing lists of addresses of gun owners and donors to causes you don't support? Blocking streets and freeways so average people cannot carry on with daily business. Obviously, you guys believe that treating people badly does lead to resolution.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

People migrate from bad places to good places. For a multitude of reasons Mexico is a bad place. Illegal migration into the USA is a safety valve for their dangerous broken society.

Original Mike said...

"Yes I understand that using a fake SS number while working is a felony, but it hardly compares to the crimes that have been committed by the tugs deported yesterday."

You might see this somewhat differently if it was your identity that was stolen.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

People migrate from bad places to good places. For a multitude of reasons Mexico is a bad place. Illegal migration into the USA is a safety valve for their dangerous broken society.

Michael K said...

It's sad that the right wingers continue to believe that treating people badly will somehow cause them to become better.

We don;t care if they get "better." We just want them to go home.

My two Mexican friends lived in walled compounds with armed guards before they moved here.

Tlaquepaque is a suburb of Guadalajara. It is all walled compounds with broken bottles topping the two story walls.

Speaking of American in Mexico. Back in 1976, I was a a small cocktail party held by an American couple living in Mazatlan. The husband was telling us about an interesting event the previous week. One evening, just as they were getting ready for bed, he saw a man climbing over the 6 foot wall that separated their yard from the beach. Most Americans at that time lived in gated compounds but this couple lived on the beach which is beautiful at Mazatlan.

He yelled at the man to stop climbing but the guy continued.

So he went and got his gun and told the man he would shoot him if he didn't go away.

He kept coming so the guy shot him.

He told me that the fellow fell backwards off the wall onto the beach.

I said, "What happened to him?"

He said, "I don't know. In the morning he was gone."

Life in Mexico in the 70s.

Bob Ellison said...

Mexico should be a money-printing heaven. It's right downstairs from the richest country on the planet, it's got vast coastlines on two oceans, it has beautiful interior landscapes and histories, and it has a populace of mostly hard-working, noble people.

Yet it's a pig-pen. Gee, I wonder why.

Angel-Dyne said...

damikesc:

Would ANY country tolerate their neighbor trying to send their poor to them and then cause issues when they are being removed?

Uh, the U.S.?

Of course, Mexico couldn't pull the stunts they've been pulling for decades if there weren't Americans of influence and power who were happy to let them do it.

Funny how the "OMG Putin! Foreigners are Hijacking Our Democracy!" people have been somnolent for decades over Mexico's in-your-face meddling.

Seeing Red said...

I swear one Mexico law is if you're an outsider, you're not allowed to participate in politics. No marching, etc.

cubanbob said...

R/V agreed that using someone else's SS number is a felony and as felonies go hardly the worst. However as noted in other threads in this blog doing that can cause a lot of grief for those whose SS numbers have been compromised.

Perhaps the best thing to do is have these people come forward and grant them a work only visa with no right to become a permanent resident or rights to entitlements. Seldom mentioned but rather obvious is that if these people can find work here then why aren't those jobs being filled by people on welfare? If we as a country are going to accept the notion that there jobs that are beneath the dignity of Americans to perform and thus it is better for those Americans to live of other people's taxes then let's grant the illegal alien worker a work visa. They can work legally, pay taxes and get no American benefits in return. They send money home which creates demands for US exports and pays US bondholders of otherwise junk foreign bonds. Not the best solution but so far no one seems to be proposing anything better.

Seeing Red said...

It's not about how Americans are treating Mexicans, sun.

It's about how Mexico treats its own.

The upside is we may actually get a temporary employee program that works and will allow Mexicans to actually keep their money this time instead of their government stealing it like last time.


ITOH, when I read articles that state Mexico has hated US for 170 years, it's only in the last 30 they like us and with what we are doing, they are going to hate US again, eff em.

Gahrie said...

You might be able to scare people or hurt them and they will hate and resent you for it

I hate to be the one to break it to you....

Mexico already hates and resents us...and have for close to 200 years.

Angel-Dyne said...

Bob Ellison: Mexico should be a money-printing heaven. It's right downstairs from the richest country on the planet, it's got vast coastlines on two oceans, it has beautiful interior landscapes and histories, and it has a populace of mostly hard-working, noble people.

Yet it's a pig-pen. Gee, I wonder why.


Racist gringos sneaking over the border every night and littering everywhere.

buwaya said...

Mexico isnt really such a shithole by world standards. Its fairly wealthy, the people are, these days, well fed or rather, very often, over-fed. There are plenty of places where anything you can name is much worse. Life is on the whole not terrible in the context of history and the current state of the human race. I come from a much poorer place.

Being beside the US is a huge economic benefit.

But the real trouble is not the objective condition of Mexico but the huge disparity across the border.
It leads to enormous temptations.

bgates said...

I understand that using a fake SS number while working is a felony, but it hardly compares to the crimes that have been committed by the tugs deported yesterday

It compares in the sense that they're all felonies.

Gahrie said...

if that helps one to dismiss the human kindness involved in this case of a women who has been working and supporting her family for what twenty years--so be it .

Wait....exactly why should she get credit for working and taking care of her family? That's what you are supposed to do.

Similarly the meme was how cruel..she actually showed up every year for her hearing and then we deported her anyway. You're supposed to show up for your hearings.

William said...

I'm far more ambivalent about Mexican immigrants than Muslims. We've had border jumpers since forever. I don't think it was a problem in the old days. In the old days, there weren't a lot of welfare benefits so it didn't matter. I can't work up much outrage at some kitchen worker doing a double shift at sub minimum wages.......I'd feel better about the immigrants--of all kinds--if they had some kind of awareness about the things that made their native country uninhabitable and some kind of awareness of what makes this country attractive.

Gahrie said...

Its fairly wealthy, the people are, these days, well fed or rather, very often, over-fed

Would that still be true if the poorest 20% of its population was forced to return to Mexico from the United States and the $20 billion+ in remittances from the U.S. stopped arriving?

buwaya said...

Well, Northern Mexico wasnt really substantially populated until the late 19th century, the whole borderland was mainly wilderness frontier. There wasnt much population pressure from Mexico to the US until after the Mexican Revolution drove a surge of refugees (like my father-in-law). Mexicans had rather little to do with El Norte. The friction was on a political level, with claims on what both sides considered a wilderness.
One can argue that friction really began when economic development of the US side of the frontier attracted Mexican settlement of their side, complete with railroads built with US funds.

Hagar said...

I thought Trump indicated to Pena Nieto that a little cooperation in these matters would be appreciated. He may need to repeat that in more forceful terms.

If the official position of the Mexican government is to help clog up the U.S. courts, the U.S government may decide to go back to the old system: If the border patrol guy does not like the looks of you, back you go. No fuss, no muss.

Gahrie said...

I can't work up much outrage at some kitchen worker doing a double shift at sub minimum wages..

Many illegal immigrants are hardworkers who just want a chance at a better life. Hell, if I had been born poor in Mexico or Central America...I'd come to the U.S....legally if possible but I would come any way I could. I grok them, I really do.

But there are many problems with illegal immigration in the aggregate. Besides the detrimental effects to the U.S., Mexico will never reform and improve as long as the safety valve to the north is open.

Seeing Red said...

Using a fake SS# gets an American up to 5 years in jail.

Angel-Dyne said...

Goddamn blogger for screwing up preview. One more try...

cubanbob: If we as a country are going to accept the notion that there jobs that are beneath the dignity of Americans to perform and thus it is better for those Americans to live of other people's taxes then let's grant the illegal alien worker a work visa.

There are plenty of people who are perfectly willing to work who've been crowded out of the job market by illegal aliens. The construction jobs in my town didn't flip to illegals-only in a very short period because the natives just woke up one morning and decided construction work was beneath them. Same for things like meat-packing.

There may be, say, agricultural jobs that you can't get Americans to do, even with better pay and working conditions. But only a small minority of illegals work in ag jobs. And it's not as if illegals working even "jobs Americans really won't do" isn't problematic in a lot of ways, too. But at any rate nobody should be taking any employer's "Americans won't do these jobs" arguments at face value.

sunsong said...

See, that right there is the trouble with lefties. Lefties think righties are trying to make people better people.

Good grief. I don't think you are trying to help anyone. Perhaps if I had said you think that being cruel and punitive will cause people to behave the way you want them to, in other words you think you can control people. To me, that's why you should not hold any power. You have lost touch with your humanity, with your soul. And that is very sad.

Hagar said...

Buwaya,
This problem has only developed in the last 40-50 years. When I came to New Mexico (and it is the former Nuevo Mexico, not "northern Mexico"), we were about equally poor on both sides and people drifted back and forth across the border without any much trouble or objections.
Since then New Mexico (and Arizona) has become much more a part of the U.S. with the general economic and communications development taking place since WWII, and especially on the West Coast and in the Southwest. Meanwhile Mexico suffered from a succession of corrupt and left-leaning governments that prevented the Mexican economy from developing or actually served to strangle it while the population continued to grow.

Drago said...

We will not be able to create a left wing paradise similar to Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela and Cuba if we don't let all these folks in and give them amnesty immediately!

Make America Mexico Again!

Angel-Dyne said...

William: I'd feel better about the immigrants--of all kinds--if they had some kind of awareness about the things that made their native country uninhabitable and some kind of awareness of what makes this country attractive.

The ability of the host nation to maintain that awareness in immigrants varies directly with size of immigrant inflow, and also depends on the willingness of the host culture to enforce its cultural dominance, unapologetically.

I wish people didn't have so much difficulty understanding this.

Drago said...

Seeing Red: "Using a fake SS# gets an American up to 5 years in jail."

Now, you see, that is precisely the kind of "punitive" measure sunsong lectures us is morally wrong.

That is all about trying to control peoples behavior which is very very bad for conservatives while trying to control peoples behaviors is very very good for lefties because they are morally superior to everyone else.

If you don't believe me, just listen to them.

Drago said...

sunsong: "Good grief. I don't think you are trying to help anyone"

What you "think" is completely untethered from reality.

Carry on!

Angel-Dyne said...

sunsong: Good grief. I don't think...

Well, there's the problem with the left right there. You don't think.

The rest of the emotive diarrhea you posted after this is a perfect example of that.

Roughcoat said...

The building of Mexico's railway system was made possible in large measure by British capital investment; and, relatedly, by the iron-fisted fiscal policies of Porfirio Diaz and Jose Ives Limanteur, his French-born Minister of Finance, who ensured that Mexico's financial solvency and thereby made the nation attractive to foreign investors. The Britain and France were the 1-2 top investors in Mexico during much of the Porfiriato; America was number 3.

stever said...

So many people thought they'd never lose an election again. Based only on Barry's charm and skin color, they counted on Hillary to keep the train going. Keep the future Democrats pouring in, keep the courts going left and keep all the big shots making money off this situation--including the Mexican government-- secure in the status quo.

Hagar said...

It was not the "illegals" who ran this country's government for the last 80 years or so.

Roughcoat said...

Mexico and the Mexicans have a huge blind spot concerning the complex history of the relationship between our two countries. It pleases them to cast themselves in the role of perpetual victims of Yankee imperialism: a view that masks and distracts Mexicans from the breathtaking corruption that has made their homeland unlivable or at the least undesirable to the many millions who have chosen to flee it.

buwaya said...

But, Sunsong, there are all sorts of people trying to make me behave as they would like me to. Often enough without a hint of politeness. Often enough (or rather, most of the time) they are Democrats. But, mostly, I dont blame Democrats.
I am forever having to resist all sorts of natural urges, else I will get into trouble.
It is the human condition sadly.

I've got no doubt that there us a vast range of things you would rather I dont do (I can be a difficult character) to which I would be inclined should there be no sanctions. I left off my fascinating experiments in making high explosives back in high school for instance. No doubt, should I resume my old hobby, the police might take an interest.

Now, what we are talking about here is not that we, or you, want to control other people, darn right we do, else things will go very badly, but exactly what it is we want to control. There is dissention on that rather limited matter.

buwaya said...

Roughcoat,
I stand corrected on the financing of Mexican railroads.

Robin's son said...

How much is that Wall going to cost taxpayers? It keeps getting more expensive.

Roughcoat said...

No worries, buwaya. The history of the Mexican Revolution happens to be a minor obsession. I'm especially fascinated with Diaz and Limantour. I have very ambivalent views of the two. Both were mixtures of good and less-than-good. Not unlike Franco, I should think. Dare I say that Mexico could use them, or men like them, in the present circumstances? Mexico could do worse, far worse. And has.

Original Mike said...

"How much is that Wall going to cost taxpayers? It keeps getting more expensive."

Unimportant. We don't have a choice.

Michael K said...

I used to go to Mexico all the time.

A doctor friend of mine had a brother-in-law who was governor of Baja California Sur. He lived in a palace on the beach. I was there.

I spent a lot of time in Ensenada and my partner and I had quite a few patients who came to Orange County for medical care. They were middle class and very nice people. The two brothers who Hussong's Cantina in Ensenada, a famous bar for tourists, were Americans who graduated from USC where I graduated. One of them was a patient of mine.

Northern Mexico is a no go zone for me, now. I haven't been there in years. The government has lost all control to the drug gangs., There was just a murder of an American in Acapulco and I was shocked to see the number of murders there now.

We need to protect the borders and the more the left resists, the harder will be the pressure for protection.

The Democrats are being led astray by their leftist base. Plus, of course the money from the globalists and financiers.

Paco Wové said...

"you think you can control people. To me, that's why you should not hold any power."

Not big on self-awareness, are you, Sunsong? You don't think your political allies want to control people? That's a big part of why they're not in power right now.

Roughcoat said...

Btw, the Apaches along with other Indian tribal groups were the primary reason that northern Mexico and the Mexico/U.S. borderlands were so late in developing. Apaches, Commanches, Yumas, etc. -- put bluntly, they were savages. With their horrific depradations, they made secure settlement in the region highly problematic and perilous for a very long time. The Mexican drug cartels are a modern-day equivalent. History doesn't repeat, but it does follow patterns.

buwaya said...

Mexico missed out on the industrial revolution, it came very late (in the last 40 years probably) that it could have had, piggybacked on the US, had the Mexican state had the power and will to keep the lid on. Porfirio Diaz and his cronies were just too old for the job by then, may be part of it.

Add over-centralization, remnants of Bourbon dirigisme, Mexican social problems like Indio vs mestizo, poor peace&order in the hinterlands with chronic banditry, and a terribly misled haut bourgeoise full of inapplicable European ideas that simply didnt map to Mexican social reality.

n.n said...

Aren't they concerned that excessive immigration including unmeasured immigration (e.g. illegal) is a first-order cause of anthropogenic climate change or disruption?

Why do they oppose emigration reform?

Do they profit from demographic redistricting?

Do they profit from labor arbitrage?

Where else does immigration compensate (e.g. economic misalignments through progressive debt)?

That said, aside from their propensity to embrace [class] diversity (e.g. minority including race-based division a.k.a. [class] diversity), the disruption caused by illegal aliens to the communities where they reside must be considered. They must be assimilated and integrated. Also, conflicts of interests (e.g. abortion industry and advocates) must be characterized and confronted.

Angel-Dyne said...

"Robin's son" aka Lisa Wurlitzer, LW, and a dozen other #55 sock-puppet identities:

How much is that Wall going to cost taxpayers? It keeps getting more expensive.

Still way cheaper than what illegals and their descendants are costing.

bgates said...

How much is that Wall going to cost taxpayers? It keeps getting more expensive.

I've heard it could cost half a percent of the entire federal budget.

Robin's son said...

"Well, there's the problem with the left right there. You don't think.

The rest of the emotive diarrhea you posted after this is a perfect example of that."

There are no other female commenters in the Althouse comments sections that can match the sheer nasty bitch persona of Angel-dumb. Do you get a jolt of self esteem when you display your ugly personality to kind decent commenters like Sunsong? Countering arguments is one thing, but Angel-dumb, you merely use these comments sections to display your sadism. Did you hurt puppies when you were a child? Bitch, you want to get nasty with someone? You'll find that some of us liberals hit back, hard.

Roughcoat said...

Mexico's failings are peculiarly Latin in their origins and nature. And I mean "peculiarly" in every sense of the word.

"Round him [Diaz], like cherubim and seraphim in a religious picture, there was a group of courtly, elderly gentlemen who had long since done away with politics to devote themselves to nourishing business. This, they said, was the true science of government; they believed that problems of state could be solved scientifically; they were called the 'scientificos'."

Peculiar . . . in every sense.

Michael K said...

Apaches, Commanches, Yumas, etc. -- put bluntly, they were savages. With their horrific depradations, they made secure settlement in the region highly problematic and perilous for a very long time.

I have some friends in Tucson whose family owns a very large ranch south of here. It goes a east almost to Fort Huachuca. The original ranch house is toward the eastern end and is a ruin after being burned in an Apache raid about 1890 or so. They have a more recent ranch house near Elgin, which is a town near Sonoita. The school house in Elgin, now closed, was the site of the end scene in "Red River" part of which was filmed on their ranch.

I read some of Louis La More's stories about that part of Arizona and his geography is pretty good. One of these days, once we get the house organized, I want to take a drive over there and scout some of his geography, like that in "Hondo."

Roughcoat said...

Michael K:

Be careful. Be armed. Heavily.

DanTheMan said...

>>Yet it's a pig-pen. Gee, I wonder why.

Mexico and Venezuela: Poor countries sitting on top of oceans of oil.

Only government has the power to destroy wealth on such a scale.

Wait... destroy is the wrong word. "steal" is much closer to the mark. Mrs. Arafat lives in billionaire luxury, as does Chavez's daughter. Neither have produced anything of value, yet are fabulously rich. Only government can do that.

DanTheMan said...

As for deporting illegals: Stop sending them back across the border. Deport them to Cancun... drop them off at the beach.
A thousand mile walk back to the US should be something of a deterrent. I agree that a DNA sample and lifetime ban on reentry would also be fitting.

Unknown said...

A nice thought experiment would be to compare the immigration policies of mexico to the US. Side by side.

I would expect (like comparing abortion policies in europe) that liberals would again be found to have a problem with facts.

DanTheMan said...

>>How much is that Wall going to cost taxpayers?

Nothing, unless they import goods from or wire money to Mexico. I, for example, do neither, so it's not going to cost me a dime.

That was Trump's promise. And if he breaks it, I'll vote against him and anybody who defends him.

Unknown said...

"As for deporting illegals: Stop sending them back across the border. Deport them to Cancun... drop them off at the beach."

Not a bad idea. We seem to be unable to get rid of bums around our beaches. They just won't leave...

James Pawlak said...

TO THOSE HATE-TRUMP CRITTERS: VA A MEXICO Y BESEME CULO!

Paco Wové said...

"it's no one's damn business what moniker a commenter chooses to use and how often they choose to change it"

But it is kind of fun watching you have an aneurysm complaining about people noticing your sockpuppetry.

Robin's son said...

The wall is going to cost consumers plenty. Produce and other goods that come from Mexico will shoot up in price. Who does that hurt but the very people Trump promised to help. When push comes to shove, I don't think Trump wil get the funding from the Republican Congress.

buwaya said...

Engage with substance #55
And use dialectic, Sunsong. Point, counterpoint, or thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

William said...

What happened to the American Adam. There used to be a concept that emigrants came to this country and were washed clean of the grudges and prejudices of the old country. I don't think anyone here would argue against the fact that our Germans were better Germans than Germany's Germans--at least in the twentieth century. Our English are significantly less class conscious and rigid about social hierarchies than England's English. It would be impossible for me to catalogue here the number of stupid things that Ireland's Irish fervently believe in. Suffice to say that Magdalene laundries were never a feature of Irish American life.......What's so wrong about being more proud of your American roots, however shallow, than of your more distant ancestors?

William said...

I hope Trump vets the deportees with some of the care he uses on the Muslim immigrants. I would like to see the activists forced to defend the rapists and drug dealers rather than some of the other, more sympathetic immigrants.

buwaya said...

Why should Mexican produce cost more?
I would think it would cost less, as the peso will devalue some.

That is, if Trump doesnt raise tarriffs. Thats a different matter. TBD, and the devil is in the details.

The wall itself should not affect the price of Mexican imports on the upside.

OK, point, counterpoint - you served, I returned, the ball is in your court now.

Achilles said...

The right wants Mexico to be more like the US.

The left wants to make the US more like Mexico.

It is telling that the leftists here realize what a shit hole Mexico is and they still want the same lawless corruption that made Mexico a shit hole here in the US.

It is clear that sunsong is the asshole who wants people poor and under the thumb of a corrupt government. sunsong just wants Americans to live in the same conditions Mexicans do.

buwaya said...

William, from what I have seen of many generations of US Mexicans (and non-Mexican Hispanic people are more complications, each in their way), the problems come from:
- The object of the educational-cultural system has changed from integration to fostering tribalism and separation.
- A vast number of people of the same ethnic group came in and overwhelmed local populations and took over politically and culturally.
- Local politics over not just cities but states and regions became Tammany Hall, which is not new of course but the scale certainly is. There is no alternate small town/bourgeois political power that can serve as a reaction.
- There is very limited social mobility, so the immigrant population is stuck in Tammany Hall, they cant grow out of it.
- US politics has sorted out to a high-low coalition against the middle class. The high bourgois are not motivated to resolve the problems of the bulk of their voters as their power depends on their clients' alienation.
- The immigrants elites were deliberately indoctrinated in college to an irredentist ideology, and professionally rewarded for it, to keep them loyal.
- US politics has acquired such high stakes that any change threatens disaster for some faction.

buwaya said...

Trump has floated a whole raft of proposals on "how to pay for the wall". A 20% tarriff on Mexican imports is unlikely.
Mexico exports @$130 Billion annually. Besides that there are $27B in remittances. A ten year tarriff or remittance tax would pay for the thing at a rate of 2-3%. And I think the devaluation of the peso will make it a wash or more than.

That is a realistic plan.

The post-Trump peso devaluation has already cheapened Mexican imports by 10%.

Always look at the numbers yourself and judge internet memes accordingly.

DanTheMan said...

>> Produce and other goods that come from Mexico will shoot up in price

... and the market will respond, as other suppliers see opportunities. I can live without Mexican salad greens and strawberries.

What you aren't accounting for is the hidden costs. Yes, getting my roof replaced is much cheaper since more than half the crews are illegals working for $50/day.

But my hospital bills, car insurance, and taxes are higher to pay for the services that illegals consume, and NEVER pay a nickel in income tax. You and I are paying their share. Or we're borrowing to cover it.

Oh, and don't forget that illegals can get BILLIONS in income tax rebates, even though they NEVER pay a nickel in income taxes. That's a direct transfer from you and I to them. I'd much rather those billions be used to help working Americans.

https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf




William Chadwick said...

"Since when does the deficit matter?"

Since a Republican was elected president. And yet "liberals" keep spending other people's money . . .

Paco Wové said...

"That was Trump's promise. And if he breaks it, I'll vote against him and anybody who defends him."

I never believed Trump on this one. I always assumed that the money would come out of our pockets one way or another. But I don't care about that. Whether it's a good idea or not (and I think, on balance, it is) isn't dependent on who pays for it. Not even if they are named Unknown, Will, QueenWili, Unknown#2, william, Prince WillHRH, WilliamHR, Wilhelmina, Robin's son, BillySaturday, Bill, Willy, HRM William, Louisa Wurlitzer, WL, Unknown#1, LW, WillySunday, or even WillRobinson.

Humperdink said...

I haven't seen this much bravado since Clay fought Liston.

buwaya said...

Anyway, the wall is not such an expensive proposition and the powers that be can be beaten into it, probably. Its not about the cost, its about the consequences. This is the political conflict of the year, or it would be in normal times.

It is a clear conflict of political interests, every part of this has a great deal at stake. Wall, immigration compliance, immigration law reform, H1b reform, etc. Each battle feeds into the other.

buwaya said...

As Trump says, "Sad!"

Bruce Hayden said...

I read some of Louis La More's stories about that part of Arizona and his geography is pretty good. One of these days, once we get the house organized, I want to take a drive over there and scout some of his geography, like that in "Hondo."

Let me know how it goes. A couple years ago I stumbled into Lamoure in the library in the town we live in in MT, and enjoyed them greatly Have read the entire Sacketts saga, plus a bunch more. Can't remember where we were a couple years ago but they had a bond copy of Hondo, which I read. Great maps - which is why I think your research is going to be interesting. Then, I stumbled on the movie, starring Brother Duke. Pretty close to the book, though being Lamoure, the romance was a lot more understated there.

If there were a geographical nexus to his Sacketts books, I would think that it would be closer to the San Louis/Wallenberg/Santa Fe area, where he apparently spent much of his later life. Thought of that when I was driving the 26' U-Haul truck down through there a week or two ago. Tying back to the discussion at hand - one of the things that I found interesting, running through that series is how sympathetically he portrays Mexicans in NM and S CO during that time (roughly, about the time of our Cenennial). They were there first, and much of the conflict in the books seems to revolve around gringos trying to take their land away from them. Sacketts, of course, inevitably seemed to side with the Mexicans.

Yes, Lamoure's books are fiction, but I think that they provide a window on a past time, his latter life, a good part of the first half of the 20th Century, when we were still the interlopers, and the Mexicans were the long time residents.

HT said...

So few ever mention the tradeoffs for all that voluntary slav- oops I mean cheap labor:

But my hospital bills, car insurance, and taxes are higher to pay for the services that illegals consume, and NEVER pay a nickel in income tax. You and I are paying their share. Or we're borrowing to cover it.

Humperdink said...

If Trumps ramps up deportations to a fever pitch, the wall would be unnecessary. However, we all know some lefty judge would put a halt the effort. Unconstitutional or somethin'.

I suspect a "Go Fund Me" effort for the wall would be highly successful.

Humperdink said...

"You folks are so strange."

The number one policy issue for Trump during the campaign was the immigration issue. He won.

Michael K said...

"
Blogger Roughcoat said...
Michael K:

Be careful. Be armed. Heavily."

I don't have any RPGs but will an AR 15, a Colt 1911, a Walther P4 and a Walther PPK be enough do you think ?

DanTheMan said...

>>Don't you think that there are enough bridges and roads that could use that funding for repair?

I guess you didn't follow the link: We gave a direct cash transfer of billions of dollars to illegal immigrants. Billions.
The government knows, and does nothing to stop it. It would be as simple as requiring a valid SSN to get a refund. That's it.

Now, ask yourself why the federal government doesn't care.

Paco Wové said...

All the money currently projected to be sunk into the California High-Speed Choo Choo could cover about a third or so of the cost, all by itself.

It's all about priorities.

Roughcoat said...

Michael K:

Splendid. That should do 'er. I would add an AR pistol (truck gun) and a short barrel shotgun, but that's just me. I like AR pistols.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55: "Well Drago honey, you've got a new President now who says he's going to honor the Iran Nuclear deal. Go write him a letter."

LOL

"..the Iran Nuclear deal."

I'm afraid the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is neither a treaty nor a an executive agreement and was never actually signed by Iran!

You know, you keep using the word "deal". I do not think it means what you think it means.

I'll wait to see what actions are actually taken as opposed to taking your word for it!

Carry on!

SockPuppet#55 said...

Trump is already backing down from his tough talk.

"Last night the White House released a readout of the President's call with Chinese President Xi Jinping. That readout had this oddly worded sentence: "The two leaders discussed numerous topics and President Trump agreed, at the request of President Xi, to honor our 'one China' policy." This came after weeks of swaggering and provocative moves and statements all declaring that the 'One China Policy', which is foundational for the PRC, was 'on the table.' It is an eminently sane move but also a dramatic back down for President Trump.

Then this afternoon EU foreign policy chief (in effect, the EU foreign minister) Federica Mogherini said that she had been assured in her meetings with top administration officials that the Trump administration intended to "stick to the full implementation of the [Iran nuclear] agreement.""

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-s-day-of-living-cuckorously

buwaya said...

Most people coming across the southern border these days seem not to be Mexicans at all, and the net number of Mexicans entering or leaving is entirely speculative anyway.

Estimates of this depend on counting those entering undocumented, and thats certainly not happening. Nor for that matter is all travel in the other direction. There is no good reason to have been identified leaving.

Drago said...

Paco Wové: "All the money currently projected to be sunk into the California High-Speed Choo Choo could cover about a third or so of the cost, all by itself."

The latest estimates for the California Choo-choo to nowhere is actually north of $60Billion.

That's the equivalent of 3 Walls.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"The number one policy issue for Trump during the campaign was the immigration issue. He won."

And a majority of Europeans would go further than Trump did. They favor halting immigration from ALL majority Muslim countries, not just the 7 on Trump's list (and that list, was, of course, drawn up by the Obama administration).

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration

Drago said...

buwaya: "Most people coming across the southern border these days seem not to be Mexicans at all, and the net number of Mexicans entering or leaving is entirely speculative anyway."

Mexico has made a handsome little profit off of the Central and South Americans who have to cross Mexico to get to the US.

Theft, sexual slavery, rape. All in goods days work for the "tolerant", "understanding", "humanitarian" Mexican government which is wholly owned by the cartels.

In other words, a perfectly leftist government.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Trump won't get his wall, the cost is too high and the Congress isn't stupid enough to fund it. That's my opinion and I'm as entitled to one as you assholes are.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55: "Trump won't get his wall, the cost is too high and the Congress isn't stupid enough to fund it. That's my opinion and I'm as entitled to one as you assholes are."

LOL

Big Mike said...

Regarding the "infrastructure crumbling around our ears," you must be seriously mistaken. Did not Barack Obama spend something like $800 billion to jumpstart the economy by fixing our infrastructure? Clearly you must be wrong.

SockPuppet#55 said...

Californians can spend their money how they see fit.

eric said...

Does anyone wonder about stories like this?

Remember the "news" that Obama deported more people than any other President? That deportations were up under Obama?

This illustrates that such stories were "Fake News". These sorts of raids haven't been happening for over 6 years now. It didn't take long for the Obama (Napalitano) Homeland Security to shut this stuff down.

We know where the illegals are. We know who they are. We've known for years. But we haven't had the green light to go and get them. Now we have the green light from this administration.

And it's freaking people out because they thought they were safe. They were lead to believe, by the past administration, that the law didn't matter. The the law could safely be ignored.

This is what happens when your chief law enforcement officer in the United States decides to ignore the laws he doesn't like. I'd be in an uproar right now too if I were an illegal immigrant getting deported.

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. People aren't accustomed to the actual laws being enforced. It's going to make a lot of people angry.

Bruce Hayden said...

Love how the left always reverts to talking about the crumbling bridges and roads, when spending money comes up, but then spend it on pie-in-the-sky solar projects and bullet trains to/from nowhere when they actually get infrastructure money to spend. Come back to us when you are willing to repeal Davis-Bacon, and then we can talk infrastructure spending. Also, one of the things that is quite noticeable when driving around the country is that road repair varies greatly, state to state. In the west, CA seems to have the worst roads, by far. Remember on I-80, west of Reno, towards Donner Pass, you could tell, quite audibly, the minute you crossed the state line into that state. Much of the demand for infrastructure spending inevitably seems to come from Blue states, that seem to have, inevitably, blown their funds most everywhere else.

Drago said...

Big Mike: "Did not Barack Obama spend something like $800 billion to jumpstart the economy by fixing our infrastructure?"

The obambi "infrastructure Bill" was a massive money laundering scheme whereby funds were delivered to lefty groups and then funneled back to the Dems.

It was also used to create the Obama ground political ground game helpers as you would expect of any leftist government.

Can't wait to see how much money ends up in the dem coffers from the Mexican govt.

Drago said...

SockPuppet#55: "Californians can spend their money how they see fit"

Only that portion of "their money" that isn't owed to Trumps federal govt!

The govt the left weaponized!

Too rich!

Thanks dummy!

SockPuppet#55 said...

Your Great Trump Wall won't get built. You'll be lucky to have the Trump administration last longer than the end of this year. That's my opinion too.

DanTheMan said...

>>So few ever mention the tradeoffs for all that voluntary slav- oops I mean cheap labor:

Yep. Car insurance is a good example. A significant chunk of your bill covers the cost of the most expensive accidents: fatal accidents.
Estimates vary, but a reasonable number seems to be about 3,000 deaths per year caused by illegal immigrants driving. Sometimes with valid (!) drivers licenses, often without.
And illegals have a great motivation to flee the scene, of course. In fact, more than half of all collisions in Los Angeles are now hit and run.

Again, the federal government does not deport illegals arrested for fatal hit and run. It doesn't even collect statistics, because it doesn't want to know.

Ask yourself why.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Dr K - my suggestion is to maybe add another AR-15 (for your partner, kids, etc) and something of maybe a higher caliber. Plus, maybe a 12 gauge.

DanTheMan said...

>>Your Great Trump Wall won't get built.

Ann has banned betting on her site. Lucky you.

DanTheMan said...

>>how's that Muslim Ban going?

The Muslim ban that doesn't ban Muslim immigration from 9 of the world's top 10 Muslim countries?

"Assertion, meet fact. Fact, this is assertion. You know, some people can't tell you two apart..."


Angel-Dyne said...

"Robin's son" aka Lisa Wurlitzer, LW, and a dozen other #55 sock-puppet identities:

As I said, stalker bitch, I don't care if anyone knows I use sockpuppets. My goal isn't to disguise the identity of my account.

Not now, of course, since you've been blown out of the water. Certainly was the original goal. Good to be flexible when plans go awry, though!

Guess the DNC was too chintzy to pay for some rudimentary technical advice on running sock-puppets properly.

I use sock puppets because I know it bothers you so much...

Lol, yeah, that's why you started posting under a bunch of sock-puppets last July when you didn't know any of us stalker bitches from Adam.

You have a magic time machine, I guess.

Michael K said...

" I think that they provide a window on a past time,"

I recently read another of his books about early California. It's called "The Lonesome Gods."

Pretty good. History is probably pretty good, too.

HT said...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/undocumented-immigrant-rights-activist-loses-her-battle-to-avoid-being-deported/2017/01/24/ef165060-e24c-11e6-ba11-63c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.4c6defccfd6a

Under Obama administration guidelines, however, immigrants convicted of DUIs are a priority for deportation. Her appeal was denied.


http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2017/02/11/calm-immigration-raids-trump-continuation-obama-policy/

The problem is, none of this is new. It is merely a continuation of the policy initiated by the Obama administration. From Reuters in May of 2016:

U.S. immigration officials are planning a month-long series of raids in May and June to deport hundreds of Central American mothers and children found to have entered the country illegally, according to sources and an internal document seen by Reuters.

The operation would likely be the largest deportation sweep targeting immigrant families by the administration of President Barack Obama this year after a similar drive over two days in January that focused on Georgia, Texas, and North Carolina.

Those raids, which resulted in the detention of 121 people, mostly women and children, sparked an outcry from immigration advocates and criticism from some Democrats, including the party’s presidential election frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has now told field offices nationwide to launch a 30-day “surge” of arrests focused on mothers and children who have already been told to leave the United States, the document seen by Reuters said. The operation would also cover minors who have entered the country without a guardian and since turned 18 years of age, the document said. Two sources confirmed the details of the plan.

Drago said...

Things that actually failed to materialize:

1) Hillary wins the election!
2) Democrats win the Senate!
3) Democrats win the House!
4) Democrats improve their position at the State level!
5) Electors will flip to keep Trump out of the White House!
6) There will be a military coup against Trump!
7) United Dem resistance will stop Trumps cabinet nominees!
8 thru infinity) Whatever else leftist sockpuppets blather about online!

Paco Wové said...

"People aren't accustomed to the actual laws being enforced. It's going to make a lot of people angry."

I'm beginning to think this is America's "Naked Lunch" moment: when everyone sees what is on the end of everybody else's fork. The country's status quo has been sliding along for years, lubricated by comforting establishment lies, euphemisms, and duckspeak, but now because of Trump it's grinding to a stop and we have to ask each other – what do you really mean? Do you actually think that's a good idea? How can you think such appalling bullshit?

Michael K said...

"Californians can spend their money how they see fit."

The lefty trolls are getting dumber, I fear.

That reminds of Woody Allen's description of stock brokers.

"They invest you money and keep investing it until it;s all gone."

California will learn that in a few years. Less if they declare war on Trump.

"Plus, maybe a 12 gauge."

I sold my shotguns a few years ago. I never used them anymore. I sold them for ten times what I paid for them decades ago. A lot of decades ago.

My younger son was a bit miffed as he expected to inherit them.

I did keep my black powder guns although my cap and ball pistils seem to have disappeared.

Shooting flintlock rifles is fun but not too practical for repelling angry left wing sock puppets.

DanTheMan said...

Here's your "Muslim Ban"
Indonesia 209 million muslims, C'mon in.
India 176 million muslims, C'mon in.
Pakistan 167 million muslims, C'mon in.
Bangladesh 134 million muslims, C'mon in.
Nigeria 77 million muslims, C'mon in.
Egypt 77 million muslims, C'mon in.
Iran 73 million muslims, Nope. Stay away.
Turkey 71 million muslims, C'mon in.
Algeria 35 million muslims, C'mon in.

Those are facts. Now, tell me why you persist in calling something that does not ban travel from 9 out of the top 10 Muslim countries a "Muslim Ban".

damikesc said...

If the official position of the Mexican government is to help clog up the U.S. courts, the U.S government may decide to go back to the old system: If the border patrol guy does not like the looks of you, back you go. No fuss, no muss.

Makes a massive tax on remittances more and more vital. If they gonna gum up our courts, time to dry up a significant piece of their revenue to pay for it.

Yes I understand that using a fake SS number while working is a felony, but it hardly compares to the crimes that have been committed by the tugs deported yesterday. I doubt that the evil Soros is the one who managed the protest but if that helps one to dismiss the human kindness involved in this case of a women who has been working and supporting her family for what twenty years--so be it .

Show us how much of a pittance it is for somebody to use falsely use an SSN number by posting yours right here.

It's no biggie, right?

As far as Soros --- given that he was behind almost all of the groups involved with the "grassroots" Women's March, he should be up for investigations.

I have the right to change monikers how I see fit.

I always assumed the sock puppet claims here are overblown. Glad to see somebody admit they do it.

You'll find that when you mess with me, you'll come out of it in worse shape than when you went into it. I'm not Sunsong, I'll hit back, hard.

Oh dear. Internet BAD-ASS in the Althouse.

21.6 Billion dollars could be spent on infrastructure that is crumbling around our ears.

Obama decided a total roughly 7 times that amount would be better gifted to Iran. Funny, huh?



buwaya said...

Nerf guns are fine for shooting at screens with unfortunate posters. But I gave up on them when the boys got too old. It was no longer funny, for some reason, for dad to borrow their arsenal to shoot at people on the internet. The joke is lame now, or was. ?

Maybe I can get a laugh from that again!
Maturity is an odd thing isn't it?

Daughter of scant years but great maturity asked "why do you argue with strange people?", which is not answerable of course. She limits herself recipes and squirrel pictures, smart girl.
On the other hand at least I'm not on facebook.

AReasonableMan said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Birkel is the most hated commenter on Althouse


Leave Birkel alone.

exiledonmainstreet said...

SockPuppet#55, if the frustration overwhelms you, you can always don your pussy hat, race out and burn a American flag, punch and pepper spray women and trash a Starbucks. Or you can laughably continue to pretend to be an Internet tough guy.

That is how leftists "stand up for themselves" these days.

I once had a French boyfriend. Kissing a frog wasn't bad at all.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Dr K -.now that you are out of CA, you can replace the bullet button mag release on that AR-15 of yours (if you haven't already), and stock up on dirt cheap 30 round magazines.

Michael K said...

"you can replace the bullet button mag release on that AR-15"

Yeah, I am going to do that as soon as we get the floors done.

My son is building two AR 15s from lowers he bought before the idiots banned them in CA. They didn;t actually ban thme but I hink you have to have an "assault weapon permit" or something.

Michael K said...

"you lost the popular vote by about 3 million votes,"

I really do wish the lefty fools would try to keep track. ''Hillary won California by 4.8 million votes. She won the total popular vote by 3 million. That means she LOST the rest of the country by almost 2 million.

I see you always have to go to personal insults, preferably sexual.

Does this indicate a lack of reasoning skills or a fixation on you genitals (unless of course, you have cut them off.)?

DanTheMan said...

>>Birkel is the most hated commenter on Althouse.

I'm not sure that's true, and I for one don't hate anyone here.

However, if there was such a title, Socky and Crankbait would likely finish high in the voting.

exiledonmainstreet said...

The best commentary on the Pussy Hat March comes from Captain Kirk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghVSZNYPXtw

Achilles said...

Blogger SockPuppet#55 said...
"His cabinet is stellar."

"General Mattis. Nikki Haley. The rest are billionaires who don't give a shit about you Achilles. It actually sad to see someone like you, so confused."

I don't want them to give a shit about me. I want DC to do what it is supposed to do and leave us alone.. I want you progressives out of my life as long as you are wielding the monopoly of force the government holds.

Paco Wové said...

Every day that Trump is President is a day that Hillary Clinton is not President. That's pretty much my only requirement for being satisfied with November's election results.

Conservatives just had their best fortnight in a decade? Well, that's just gravy.

Achilles said...

SockPuppet#55 said...
Work harder Achilles, get an education! Then you too can send your children to excellent schools! Why should my tax dollars pay for your kid going to a private school? I thought you conservatives believed in hard work.

That was pathetic. If you are going to pay for public education you are going to give someone a choice on where the money goes.

You want the government to determine how our kids are educated. I want parents to determine how our kids are educated.

Do you know our education system was literally designed by fascists? And is there any surprise people defending the education system are acting like fascists?

Achilles said...

Georgetown professor and converted Muslim defending slavery, sexual and otherwise.

This is what the left is down to. It defends Islamic slavery, which continues to this day, because it follows Islamic law. Why the prophet muhammed had slaves so how can you question such a thing? Muslims also treated their slaves way better than democrats treated their slaves in the South! This professor is employed right now at georgetown university in a position funded by a wealthy Saudi oil baron.

Hitch your wagon up to that democrats. I am sure you will get at least 38 seats in the senate in 2018 by defending sharia law and trying to import as many people from Syria as possible.

FIDO said...

We have 52 Senators, soon to be more and no filibuster. I bet Trump can get 100 new immigration judges passed quite quickly...Young, healthy Conservative ones too. There are plenty of good lawyers in Alabama, Texas, Utah, Georgia, the Carolinas who would HAPPILY apply to judge cases of Mexican immigrants.

That backlog will disappear quite quickly.

Meade said...

Note to commenters who participated in the crapfest. (You know who you are.):

That took me more than 30 minutes to clean up, a waste of the short time I have left on this good earth. To those who started it, fed it, egged it on, ect.: I am not amused and I do not appreciate it. Not one bit. It's boring and annoying. Find another way, another place. Just not here.

There are 2 entities who periodically try to post comments on this blog whose comments are summarily deleted whenever we see their name or pseudonym. Ask yourselves: Do I want to be #3?

Meade said...

And please have a wonderful Sunday. Thank you.

Meade said...

— love,
Dad

Ann Althouse said...

Thanks to Meade for doing that. The problem could have also been solved by just undisplaying everything, but I didn't want to do that. Some people put their time into writing good comments, and I don't like other people having the power to take that away from them. But I also don't like Meade's (or my) short time left on this earth stolen by people who do not value this forum.

Angel-Dyne said...

Note to commenters who participated in the crapfest. (You know who you are.):

That took me more than 30 minutes to clean up...



[Shuffles, stares at feet]

I'm sorry.


If your comment ends up being deleted, that doesn't mean we necessarily consider you a bad faith commenter, only that you got caught up in a bad situation (perhaps pushing back against the phenomenon that we are deleting to eliminate.

She's really a good girl, man. She just got caught up once in a bad situation at Althouse's.

Meade said...

"I'm sorry. "

Apology accepted. Now be good.

Bad Lieutenant said...

It's sad that the right wingers continue to believe that treating people badly will somehow cause them to become better. It just doesn't work. Being mean or cruel or punitive does NOT lead to resolution. You might be able to scare people or hurt them and they will hate and resent you for it. And that's about all you accomplish with your macho actions.


sunsong, your side has a beam in its eye.