January 28, 2017

The extremely wealthy survivalists of Silicon Valley and New York City.

Described at length by Evan Osnos in The New Yorker.
Tim Chang, a forty-four-year-old managing director at Mayfield Fund, a venture-capital firm, told me, “There’s a bunch of us in the Valley. We meet up and have these financial-hacking dinners and talk about backup plans people are doing. It runs the gamut from a lot of people stocking up on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, to figuring out how to get second passports if they need it, to having vacation homes in other countries that could be escape havens.”... He told me, “I kind of have this terror scenario: ‘Oh, my God, if there is a civil war or a giant earthquake that cleaves off part of California, we want to be ready.’ ”...

Reid Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn and a prominent investor, recalls telling a friend that he was thinking of visiting New Zealand. “Oh, are you going to get apocalypse insurance?” the friend asked. “I’m, like, Huh?” Hoffman told me. New Zealand, he discovered, is a favored refuge in the event of a cataclysm. Hoffman said, “Saying you’re ‘buying a house in New Zealand’ is kind of a wink, wink, say no more. Once you’ve done the Masonic handshake, they’ll be, like, ‘Oh, you know, I have a broker who sells old ICBM silos, and they’re nuclear-hardened, and they kind of look like they would be interesting to live in.’...

The original silo of [Larry Hall's Survival Condo Project] was built by the Army Corps of Engineers to withstand a nuclear strike. The interior can support a total of seventy-five people. It has enough food and fuel for five years off the grid; by raising tilapia in fish tanks, and hydroponic vegetables under grow lamps, with renewable power, it could function indefinitely, Hall said. In a crisis, his swat-team-style trucks (“the Pit-Bull VX, armored up to fifty-calibre”) will pick up any owner within four hundred miles....

111 comments:

Rusty said...

These people are clueless.
I would love to sell them preparedness insurance.

YoungHegelian said...

They told me if Trump was elected right-wing conspiracy theories would become mainstream.

AND THEY WERE RIGHT!

(With apologies & all due homage to Instapundit).

David Begley said...

Loons. Rich loons.

Story was run because Trump is going to cause a nuke war.

Dear Libs: Trump will never start a nuke war. Too much real estate would be destroyed.

rehajm said...

When things got rough the pussies didn't even have the stones to follow through on the move to Canada...


I did have to look up that Pit-Bull VX. They offer the option of 'tailpipe protection'. Those rich lefties aren't gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe!

Ambrose said...

"these financial-hacking dinners"

When did people start using "hacking" in every sentence?

Original Mike said...

I actually do want to buy a house in New Zealand. Talked to an agent last year when we were there. Out in the sticks under dark Southern Hemisphere skies. Apocalypse refuge would just be a side benefit.

Meade said...

What they need is a Tora Bora. Not the one that actually existed but the one we imagined existed.

rehajm said...

It runs the gamut from a lot of people stocking up on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency

What apocalyptic scenario can someone imagine where these are good ideas?

mockturtle said...

Rusty is right. These buttercups are clueless and couldn't survive a week. But we'll let them think they can. I'd like to see the whole lot move to New Zealand.

Drago said...

mockturtle: "Rusty is right. These buttercups are clueless and couldn't survive a week. But we'll let them think they can."

Time to invest in survivalist company stock!

Trump giving us #Wins everywhere!

Sebastian said...

Yeah, when a giant earthquake cleaves off part of California, your obvious next move is to fly (sail? swim?) to New Zealand.

Flat Tire said...

Maybe instead of stocking up on bitcoin they should learn to actually do something that might be useful.

madAsHell said...

When did people start using "hacking" in every sentence?

Right after Hillary lost, and blamed her email server on the Russians.

harryo said...

This is why I support California becoming their own country.

When the "big one" comes, the rest of the country won't have to deal with them. We cab treat them like they were Japan or Italy.

And none of this dual-passport shit. I'd give them six-months to decide, and then void their citizenship.

20% tax at the border, and we remove all of our defense plants.

Ann Althouse said...

If there's a total societal breakdown, Larry Hall's Survival Condo Project doesn't give people what they paid for, what could they possibly do about it? Sue for breach of contract? There won't be any courts. This is a great way to collect money from people who have nothing but money.

Would that "pit bull" car really come and get you?

Ann Althouse said...

"Maybe instead of stocking up on bitcoin they should learn to actually do something that might be useful."

Spoiler alert: That's the author's main point.

At least if you mean rich people should use their wealth to help the world avoid a disaster like this.

But maybe you mean they should learn to hunt and grow food.

tcrosse said...

I'd like to see the whole lot move to New Zealand.

We shall see how New Zealand feels about that. I don't think it's for sale.

rehajm said...

Spoiler alert: That's the author's main point.

No. The author's main point is to provide a forum for New Yorker subscribers to wallow in Tumpocalypse fantasies.

mockturtle said...

Yep. New Zealand is just the spot! Deadly 7.8 New Zealand Quake

Ann Althouse said...

"We shall see how New Zealand feels about that."

A subject covered in the article.

Mark said...

If we were to impose a tax rate of 90 percent on all the wealth of the richest one-tenth of one percent -- if we were to effectively seize 90 percent of their wealth, leaving them with a measly $1 billion or more -- who do you think would be hurt more? The right or the left?

tcrosse said...

If the balloon does go up, these guys might have to fight for a spot on the evac vehicle with some other citizens who are just as determined to survive, and have better street-fighting skills. This subject got discussed to death during the fallout-shelter craze of the early '60s.

buwaya said...

Dumb.
The real survival trick is to have your descendants survive, not yourself. Whats the point in personal survival?
Most of these people made no great effort at producing a numerous clan.
The best survival plan is to have many children, dispersed around the world, preferably each with a measure of local assets and position. Sort of what the Rothschilds did.

Bay Area Guy said...

First World problems of the 1%

Roughcoat said...

Survivalism and post-apocalyptic cleansing fantasies are fun as far as they go. But in practical terms they're a waste of time and money. No matter how well prepared (whatever that entails) none of us will survive a full-scale extinction level event of the sort that produces the post-apocalyptic worlds portrayed in movies. And by none of us I mean "most of us," i.e. about 98-99 percent of the population. I do believe in being armed and prepared for outbreaks of civil disorder, the propsects of which are not so far-fectched given the levels of disorder in the Englewood and West Lawn neighborhoods on Chicago's South Side that I pass through on my daily commute to work. And it's certainly possible to survive hence prepare for a limited nuclear exchange provided you are not in too close proximity of ground zero of the exchange. But if the really big shit hits the big-shit fan, most of us are dead or doomed. If the Big Thing doesn't kill you it'll be one of the millions of "little things that do you in," i.e., untreated infections, wounds, broken bones, a simple cold that won't go away, a stomach virus. You'll slip and fall and get a small shallow cut on your finger and for lack of a measly little band aid and some hydrogen peroxide you'll develop an infection which become gangrenous and kill you. That's assuming that you are able to obtain food. Probably you won't. Probably you'll starve to death.

So quit planning and quit worrying. Have a nice day.

Susan said...

I hope they are buying gold. Glen Beck says it is the best way to secure your wealth in times of chaos.

I bet they are. They sound just like his core audience only with more money to buy gold.

Chuck said...

So in other words, being a super-wealthy tech tycoon doesn't mean you are any smarter than the survivalists in Idaho who work in lumber mills during the week, or the survivalists in Northern Michigan who work in Detroit auto plants during the week.

The b.s. factor is high in this story; made all the more so by the latent politics of the New Yorker. (NPR loved this story so much, they booked Evan Osnos onto Fresh Air with Terry Gross to hype it.)

buwaya said...

The more likely survival problem is something like, say, Iran in 1979 or Cuba in the 1960s or Argentina at various times. When politics or the economy or both turn against you very strongly. Global thermonuclear war or human-extinction level events are not worth preparing for.
Its best, at those times, when political/economic problems make it prudent to flee, to have assets and better yet, family in places not likely to be affected.

The Godfather said...

Does the article mention THE DOOMSDAY CLOCK!!!? It just clicked closer to midnight!!! Because of TRUMP!!! Do we have ANY chance to escape DOOM!!!?

buwaya said...

The survivalists in Idaho are already in a good place to survive, better off that way than much wealthier folk. Peasants in the hills are very likely to be ignored.

YoungHegelian said...

@Roughcoat,

I was having a very good day here chez Hegelian.

And then I read your posting.....

Drago said...

Chuck: "The b.s. factor is high in this story; made all the more so by the latent politics of the New Yorker."

LOL

The politics of the New Yorker are anything but "latent".

Chuck said...

Ann Althouse said...
If there's a total societal breakdown, Larry Hall's Survival Condo Project doesn't give people what they paid for, what could they possibly do about it? Sue for breach of contract? There won't be any courts. This is a great way to collect money from people who have nothing but money.

Would that "pit bull" car really come and get you?



I love it.

"Mr. President, we must not allow, a mine shaft gap!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSzoLCCX-Y

Chuck said...

Drago said...
Chuck: "The b.s. factor is high in this story; made all the more so by the latent politics of the New Yorker."

LOL

The politics of the New Yorker are anything but "latent".


For once, I stand corrected. Sincere thanks.

Michael K said...

But maybe you mean they should learn to hunt and grow food.

The guy who used to publish the investment letter I read, Dow Theory Letters, died at 91 but his son is living on a farm in Oregon growing his own food.

Probably as good a plan as any. In the 70s, I did some stuff for survival but I'm too old to care now.

mockturtle said...

NPR loved this story so much, they booked Evan Osnos onto Fresh Air with Terry Gross to hype it.

I'm sure NPR will spin it in a positive direction while being contemptuous of 'preppers' from the deplorable side of the political ledger.

Peter Araujo said...

Dang. I was imagining wealthy folks living in big cities survivalist-style: scavenging for room and board. Living with only what they can carry. Maybe keeping a clean suit at the office, showering and suiting up there for work each day, and living as a lifestyle hobo the rest of the time... Which would probably be much better survival prep than a house in New Zealand.

Rick said...

David Begley said...
Loons. Rich loons.

[Once he started telling peers in the Bay Area about his “little island project,” they came “out of the woodwork” to describe their own preparations
]

It's a conspicuous consumption competition, little different from spending on classic cars, rare comics, or toy collections. Communicated message: I'm so rich I can waste this much money.

One member, the head of an investment firm, told me, “I keep a helicopter gassed up all the time, and I have an underground bunker with an air-filtration system.” He said that his preparations probably put him at the “extreme” end among his peers.

Humblebrag, "I have more to waste than these other dilettantes".

It's a long article that never once approaches the obvious.

Rick said...

mockturtle said...
I'm sure NPR will spin it in a positive direction while being contemptuous of 'preppers' from the deplorable side of the political ledger.


No need, the article itself does that distinguishing rich SVers from anti-Obama nutters.

mockturtle said...

Michael K said: In the 70s, I did some stuff for survival but I'm too old to care now.

So did I--all the fruits and vegetables we needed, baked my own bread, raised chickens. But there is a lot more to survival than fruits and vegetables and bread and eggs. And it's a LOT of hard work--somethings these buttercups aren't used to. And forget about getting away for any length of time.

isthmus legend said...

... Fake news ... Every 4 years the media is there to point out the same momentary changes are repeating themselves again, momentarily, 4 years later.

The wealthy prep too. Their prepping style is just more glamorous than the deplorable's prepping style:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/04/09/see-the-luxury-doomsday-prepper-shelters-being-built-into-an-abandoned-ks-missile-silo/

The deplorables put pictures of jesus and hell fires on the walls of their bunkers, while the glamorous put paintings of mutilated fetuses superimposed over rainbows on their walls. Because it's important to feel superior while the canned food is running low.

Fabi said...

Country boy can survive.

Kathryn51 said...

During the run-up to the election, I began to read SurvivalBlog a couple of times a week. My husband and I discussed whether we should be looking at a vacation home/survival retreat that could at least protect our family in the event of chaos/riots/roaming gangs. We talked about how we might better utilize our 5 acres (in the middle of Microsoft BorgLand) - for instance our once flourishing garden is half weeds.

I just realized that the last time I ventured onto SurvivalBlog was in early November. I am no longer fearful. My lib (and very rich Microsoftie) friends? - terrified. They are now looking at how to beef up their vacation homes into retreats because. . . . Trump.

Susan said...

They have squirreled away, say, 5 years of food and supplies. About enough time for the Morlocks to run out of easy prey.

No doubt their reappearance will be greeted with much rejoicing.

Feasting even.

n.n said...

Didn't they see the video? Without a liberal supply of carbon credits their efforts to survive a catastrophic anthropogenic climate change are an exercise in futility.

mockturtle said...

Yeah, how thoughtful of them to plan to abandon the city, leaving their less well-off neighbors to fend for themselves. Not surprising, as elitists are always elitist.

Leora said...

I seem to recall that Mr. Zuckerburg learned how to slaughter and butcher a goat. I wonder if his 500 acre estate is meant to be a post-apocolyptic haven.

urbane legend said...

Susan said...
I hope they are buying gold. Glen Beck says it is the best way to secure your wealth in times of chaos.


Yep, gold will be the most important thing in the world come the end. Not water, not food, not, as Roughcoat said, hydrogen peroxide. Not a knife, not fishing line and hooks. Gold.

Fabi said...

Gold is the perfect idea. It's really heavy -- you can throw it at people.

clint said...

I wonder if this is what Elon Musk is building underneath LA.

Lydia said...

I'd like to see the whole lot move to New Zealand.

They'll have to compete with the Chinese, though: "A New Zealand economist based in Beijing says demand for property by wealthy Chinese is only set to grow"

Alex said...

Survivalists might get by for a while with all their saved up water and canned goods. But what happens when the first medical emergency happens? Yeah you're fucked.

Let's face it, our modern existence is predicated on millions of interlocking relationships that guide technological, medical and economic advances. You remove all those relationships and humanity devolves back to the Middle Ages or Stone Age.

Fernandinande said...

Looks like it'd be pretty easy to burn those hinges off with some thermite.

Meade said...

You'd think at least one of these Silicon Valley smartypants would've read Matthew 6:19 and 6:20 by now:

Lay not up for yourselves Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, and vacation home escape havens upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. But lay up for yourselves Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, and vacation home escape havens in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal

tcrosse said...

They'll have to compete with the Chinese
What, is Vancouver already full ?

Susan said...

My grandfather always said you should put your money in guns and ammo because if you have enough weapons you can get whatever else you need.

Big Mike said...

My first thought was that in the event of a nuclear apocalypse there is nothing to prevent those armed guards from shooting all the rich guys, the older wives, and kids. The married guards would bring in their own families and the unmarried guards could divvy up the comeliest of the mistresses or second (third) trophy wives. Why would they sacrifice themselves when they have the guns?

madAsHell said...

What, is Vancouver already full ?

In 1997, they changed the name to Hong-couver.
And B.C. no longer means British Columbia. It means Bring Cash.

I'll be here all week. Make sure you tip your waitress.

buwaya said...

All those capital-flight Chinese are doing it right - putting their eggs in as many baskets as they can manage, sending their kids off to Switzerland or UC Irvine, setting up their in-laws in business in Saipan, Indonesia, etc.
They fear trouble at home, and they prepare for it.

Bob Boyd said...

It's only a matter of time until elites planning to survive a catastrophe evolves into elites planning a catastrophe only they will survive.
Progressive-ism always leads to programs for eliminating undesirables...for the greater good.

tim maguire said...

Civilization is a thin veneer. But many of these same people will denounce you as a lunatic if you say it publicly.

CWJ said...

Althouse makes it clear that you have to read the full article. Sorry, not interested.

Nonetheless, the quotes have the whiff of the old order planning their escape east across the Rhine as the French revolution ramped up. Ironic that this time it's the "left" escaping the people.

hombre said...

As a dual citizen (US/NZ), currently commenting from Nelson, NZ, I can attest that the contribution of rich Americans here is not appreciated by many Kiwis.

As always, their voracious consumption drives prices up beyond the comfortable reach of the locals.

Roughcoat said...

I used to think about how to survive an ELE brought about by a nuclear holocaust or an SMOD landing in the Gulf of Mexico. No more. Like Michael K, I'm too old to care. I've had my innings. Bring it on, suckas.

As for the peasants in the hills of Idaho: in the event of an ELE--nuclear holocaust, SMOD, EMP wipeout, etc.--they may live a little longer than the rest. But they'll die soon enough. Most within a year, the rest after the first harvest.

My border collies and all those of their breed, on the other hand, will likely survive. They will dominate all the other animals of the earth by dint of their intelligence, intense work ethic, and commitment to order. Within a century their dew claws will evolve into opposable thumbs. They will thus build new technologies that will enable them to establish a paradise on earth. Any humans who survived the downfall will serve them gladly. The humans will be expected to work hard but they will be well-fed, twice a day, walked regularly, and be scratched pleasingly on the bellies and behind their ears.

cathy said...

Peter Thiel moving here and getting NZ citizenship is front page news, like can he just buy it. Sounds good though since he's investing in tech start-ups and NZ has a huge brain drain. Mostly the worry is Chinese who prefer Oz and Canada. But if those don't work out, they come here. I'm US, my husband NZ so it's a nice alternative for us.

mockturtle said...

I can see it now. These elitists flee to distant shores and start a neocolonial system where the native folk are only there for the elitists' use and comfort. Makes me think of McAfee.

Achilles said...

Everyone makes fun of the redkeck until the zombie apocalypse.

John said...

Why Bitcoin and crypto currency? These depend on infrastructure. No connection, no money.

Seems like junk silver coins for daily use and gold for larger store of wealth would be the way to go.

Junk silver coins are coins, like quarters, that have no collector value but are valuable for the silver.

When the apocolypse comes, the farmer may not take bitcoin but may be happy to accept a silver dime for a hundred pounds of steak.

John Henry

John said...

Someone should write a book about this. Safe locations and encrypted money.

They could call it, I dunno, maybe Cryptonomicon or some such.

John Henry

Bad Lieutenant said...

Authorities differ on the apocalyptic value of silver or copper coin. Stockpile drugs among other things. Books may be of some value. At least it would be nice to think so.

Bad Lieutenant said...

I think if the disaster gets to the level of no computers then computer money is going to depreciate sharply.

Bob Boyd said...

Sugar and whiskey...tobacco

Dave in Tucson said...

> A subject covered in the article.

Even in retirement, Althouse is catching people who haven't done the reading.

uffda said...

The fool crown goes to the former Yahoo exec worried about protecting his wife and daughter. He won't buy guns, but did take archery lessons.

tcrosse said...

At our Hostess' suggestion, I Read the Whole Thing.
The Maoris of New Zealand take great pride in the fact that they were never conquered by the British Empire. So it's hard to believe they'd allow their home to be turned into a Banana Republic by a bunch of tech dweebs.

LYNNDH said...

John beat me too it - "It runs the gamut from a lot of people stocking up on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency" would be worthless, as would Gold. My neighbor bought some Gold coins several yrs ago (now losing money on them if he sold). I told him WM would not accept (if they exist). Old saying (miss quoted of course), if you have nothing but $100 bills everything will cost a $100. Fuel/gasoline goes stale. RX go bad. As mentioned best thing will be lots and lots of ammo - to use and trade. I bet these "prepers" don't own guns and if they did don't know how to use them.

Carol S said...

I admit I didn't do the reading because the idea of ultra-wealthy rich survivalists thinking they can stockpile bitcoin for when disaster strikes made me laugh so hard I didn't want to find out what other idiocies these people thought of. If I were in their shoes, I would learn how to use and maintain firearms, refresh my gardening skills, and buy medical supplies, a reliable rifle, a good pistol, and lots of ammunition for both, and spices, in advance. Ammunition and spices would make good barter items. Mentally, I would resign myself to the idea that I probably wouldn't live very long, nevertheless.

These people in the article need to read Larry NIven and Jerry Pournelle's Lucifer's Hammer for post-apocaplypse techniques as well as picture of what a chaos immediately follows a very large disaster. (They gave me the idea about stocking spices.) It's available through Althouse's Amazon portal.

Jupiter said...

If you have children, buy potassium iodide tablets. They won't stave off the zombie apocalypse, nothing will. But when, not if, the Indians and the Pakis go at it with their nukes, and the blast cloud blows in over the Pacific, a KI pill every day will keep your kids from concentrating the radioactive iodine in their thyroid glands. Ditto the Iranians and the Saudis, or the Norks doing Seattle.

They're cheap, and they last forever. I have a couple months worth in the hall closet.

Jon Ericson said...

Thinking of you, Titus.

Danno said...

Blogger Bob Boyd said...It's only a matter of time until elites planning to survive a catastrophe evolves into elites planning a catastrophe only they will survive. Progressive-ism always leads to programs for eliminating undesirables...for the greater good.

Progtards are focused in a few cities. The deplorables are spread out geographically, as seen in the election maps for 2016. It would be near impossible to take out the deplorables without killing everyone.

But on the other hand, shutting off the power to a few key cities would create chaos.

tcrosse said...

Even in retirement, Althouse is catching people who haven't done the reading.
Will it affect my grade ? Dad would be upset.

MadisonMan said...

These people were prepping for disaster during the Obama administration. And before. And we're hearing about it now.

roesch/voltaire said...

Talk about he divide between the one percent and the rest of us; they live in gated communities, have private planes gassed and ready to go either to New Zealand or silos in Kanas while the rest of us grub about in root sellers watching our pension funds evaporate sniffing false rumors that progressives are planning our demise.

Jon Ericson said...

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

The Cracker Emcee said...

Booze, .22's, 12ga. shells, and opioids in pill form would all be great barter items for TEOTWAWKI. Tobacco too, but it'd be hard to keep fresh. Though powdered nasal snuff would keep for years. The practically value of Bitcoin, or any other kind of coin, eludes me. Though a shotgun shell reloaded with pennies might be fearsome.

Frankly, if my neighbors are starving I'm not going to furtively gobble MRE's while keeping them at bay at gunpoint. Fuck these cowards in their shelters.

Bruce Hayden said...

Yep, gold will be the most important thing in the world come the end. Not water, not food, not, as Roughcoat said, hydrogen peroxide. Not a knife, not fishing line and hooks. Gold.

My vote is ammunition first. Bitcoin is stupid because it requires infrastructure, which may well be gone. What good is gold though? We won't be needing it foe circuitry. Jewelry is going to be of less importance. Which leaves trade. But, what would someone want to trade something valuable for your gold? The nice thing about ammunition is that it is harder to take away from someone, since the current owner can use a portion of his horde to defend the rest of it. And, if one guy has gold, and another has ammunition, there is the distinct possibility that the owner of the ammunition will end up owning both - the gold AND the ammo. Not nice, of course, but realistic.

Here is what I would probably have before buying several years of food or a lot of gold:
- at least one handgun per adult who knows how to use such, or can be taught.
- an AR-15 for each able bodied adult who can shoot
- hunting shot gun or two. Nice if you have a short barrel for such too, so they can double as defensive weapons.
- a hunting rifle or two, in an appropriate caliber - you probably need larger caliber for moose, elk, and bear (and even bison) in NW MT, than you would need for the deer in NJ.
- .22 rifle for small game and for youngsters. Maybe several if there are enough of them.
- plenty of ammunition- probably 500 rounds per firearm, and a minimum of maybe 1,000 rounds per caliber. These are minimums, and preppers I know have thousands of rounds of the important calibers - buried. JIC. Enough that they will ultimately be able to trade their excess for whatever they need, whether it be food, medicine, gold, or even bitcoins.

The theory is that if there is a big die off, when the SHTF, people are going to get progressively desperate, and will resort to whatever it takes to survive. That means the use of force, and surfing that is going to also require the willingness and ability to use force in self-defense.

I know where I would head - back up to NW MT. It is defensible, at least at the community level, everyone is armed, and has all the necessities (food and power in particular) - except maybe enough ammunition (except that most reload, at least some).
- reloading equipment would be a plus, esp capable of reloading the important calibers (e.g. .223, 9 mm, bird shot, etc).

Achilles said...

"Though a shotgun shell reloaded with pennies might be fearsome."

Too big. Dimes.

Harold said...

Advice to that guy with the helicopter gassed up and on standby- make sure you have a place on your current estate for the pilot and his family, and plans to take them all with you. Because if the SHTF, he's getting them first, and flying to take your place.

buwaya said...

Re loading shotshells with odd things, check out Youtube Taofledermaus

buwaya said...

The Maoris were indeed conquered by the British Empire, and in NZ the Maoris are a smallish minority, maybe 15% of the population is at least part-Maori.

mockturtle said...

It doesn't sound like the kind of world I would want to survive in.

Carol S said...

Mockturtle said: It doesn't sound like the kind of world I would want to survive in.

To be honest, neither would I, but I'd rather die taking someone who's out to harm me and/or my husband down before I die, first.

Paul said...

And all these rich people with their mountains of gold and "preparedness", what will they do when they just... die. Be it from old age or smallpox or just a fall in the shower.

All those riches, what will it buy them? For they had no real friends, just fellow rich travelers on their way to hell.

Roughcoat said...

Not water, not food, not, as Roughcoat said, hydrogen peroxide.

I did not say that hydrogen peroxide would be the most important thing come the end. Read again what I wrote. Try to comprehend. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Nothing any of you survivalists do will save you for long. The notion that a person could make a go of it in NW Montana is a Boy's Life fantasy. The notion that you stock up and carry enough ammunition to use in trade or in self-defense/combat is a fantasy. You will use up your ammo in a matter of weeks if not days or hours. That notion that you can self-load enough ammunition to remain viably armed is a fantasy; you will run out of the ingredients and you will not be able to find more.

Repeat after me: when the end comes it will come for you. You will not survive. None of us, none of you, will survive. Carpe diem. Live happily in the day, this day. We all owe God a life.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Money is:
-A store of value.
-A means of exchange.
-A means of account.
If you really think that the end is near, and you want to survive it, buy cases of canned beans. You can't eat gold.
Guns and ammo sound cool, but this is America. Everyone has guns and ammo, but who has forty or fifty cases of canned beans stashed away? You could fit that many cases of canned beans in a closet. It would last you a year.
Saimin would work, but it has a shorter shelf life than canned beans.
Fishing would be a good way to go. All you need is a string and a hook.

Joshua Barker said...

Revelations 6:12-17

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usb from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

urbane legend said...

Roughcoat said...
Not water, not food, not, as Roughcoat said, hydrogen peroxide.

I did not say that hydrogen peroxide would be the most important thing come the end. Read again what I wrote. Try to comprehend. Reading comprehension is your friend.


I didn't say that, either. I gave a few examples of things far more important than gold when one is faced with desperate circumstances. Those circumstances don't have to be the end of the world; an after hurricane period qualifies. You should try that reading comprehension thing you mentioned.

Todd Galle said...

Cracker MC - Achilles is correct. A group of us years ago experimented with the concept of using rolled coins as projectiles. Dimes work in a 12 bore firearm. We used 12 gauge shotguns and Brown Bess reproduction muskets. We coined (ha ha) the phrase "whirling frisbees of death" at the after shoot cocktail hour. Fun times - expensive too.

Mark said...

Nothing any of you survivalists do will save you for long.

In many ways, the ancients were more advanced than we are. This age has long forgotten their most basic knowledge and technology, which did allow them to live in such primitive, pre-industrial conditions. Yet even they, if they were to survive long, did so in a society of people, and not just as a single family, which allowed both strength in numbers and a division of labor.

Even for us today to be reduced to a 1880 level of living, which could happen if the economy were to truly crash and there was greatly diminished industry and movement of goods and trade, many would not be able to survive.

In fact, some are horrified at the thought of us living with a 2010-style of health care system, which they say would lead to the end of all civilization as we know it.

Rusty said...

Mark said...
"If we were to impose a tax rate of 90 percent on all the wealth of the richest one-tenth of one percent -- if we were to effectively seize 90 percent of their wealth, leaving them with a measly $1 billion or more -- who do you think would be hurt more? The right or the left?"

Everyone that they employ, that depends on thier wealth to produce income that provides jobs, no matter what their political affiliation.
You are making the "Scrooge McDuck" economic fallacy.

Roughcoat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roughcoat said...

urbane legend:

You wrote that "gold will be the most important thing in the world come the end. Not water, not food, not, as Roughcoat said, hydrogen peroxide."

You did NOT give a "few examples" of things far more important than gold. You wrote that "gold will be the MOST important thing."

You did not use the phrase "when one is faced with desperate circumstances." You wrote "come the end." Which is considerably different that than "faced with desperate circumstances."

I did not say that hydrogen peroxide will be far more important than gold "come the end" or, alternately, "when one is faced with desperate circumstances."

This is what I wrote: "You'll slip and fall and get a small shallow cut on your finger and for lack of a measly little band aid and some hydrogen peroxide you'll develop an infection which become gangrenous and kill you."

tcrosse said...

Fishing would be a good way to go. All you need is a string and a hook.

And some water with fish in it.

mockturtle said...

Lewis Wetzel's beans suggestion is a good one, as there would be a reliable source of natural gas. ;-)

I'd opt for dried beans and rice rather than canned.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Not that we are survivalists in the world is going to end type of survivalist, but we have been for quite some time. The idea to ramp it up started with there was a medium earthquake in the SF area that collapsed parts of the infrastructure and then with the hurricanes in NOLA area.

Because we live in a very rural area, much of our supplies: groceries, gasoline, manufactured goods come from outside the area. Should we be cut off for any extended length of time it would mean instant shortages of some things in the stores.

Because we often have power outages that can last for days, get snowed in it seemed like a good idea to stock up on basic supplies. We already have whole workshop full of tools, construction stuff, generators. I also have a husband who is very handy, mechanical and inventive and knows how to use all those mysterious tools.

So...I established, in our pump house, what my husband fondly calls the Armageddon Pantry. Since this long ago photo, it has expanded even more. Even if there isn't a "disaster" it is great to be able to go out to the pump house and get a can of beans, some rice, or whatever without having to go to the store each time. We could probably survive for a year on what is in the pantry.

If/when the feces hits the oscillating mechanism....we are sort of prepared. Not just with stuff...but with skills and by being located where we are. Dumbplumber has his skills. I have mine: sewing, weaving, knitting, spinning, canning, drying foods, gardening, cooking, able to clean game and field dress a deer (gross but necessary) and not a bad shot if I do say so myself:-) We have the tools to fish, hunt, keep warm, protect ourselves. AND most importantly...access to water!

We are surrounded by walking food and dairy supplies. Deer, cattle, goats, sheep, game birds. We are also surrounding by a lot of like minded people who, like most rural residents will band together in a time of need

Zach said...

Irony is responding to Trump's election by fantasizing about moving to rural Kansas and forming a militia with your neighbors.

Who will naturally be rabid Hillary Clinton fans.

Zach said...

Interesting thought experiment: under what states of the world would you rather live in a $3 million concrete shack half an hour outside of Salina, KS than a $3 million house in the middle of Salina?

I don't think Salina even has any $3 million houses. You'd be living like a king.

Assuming everybody welcomes the absentee landlords after the balloon goes up, that is.

Jupiter said...

mockturtle said...

"I'd opt for dried beans and rice rather than canned."

Takes a lot of fuel to convert dried beans into something you can eat.

Nancy Reyes said...

these guys are a bit clueless.
You can survive like this, but what happens if you are sick etc? You can best live in community with family and neighbors. Without community, it is a dog-eat-dog life.

I would suggest if they are worried, to convert to the LDS church and buy a home in rural southern (not northern) Idaho or Utah. They have a culture of self reliance and survival and deep community ties. (No, I am Catholic, not LDS, but I lived there for a couple of years).

As for me, I am cynical: I live in the Philippines where in the last ten years we have had floods, typhoons, and dengue fever (and before then, Mount Pinatubo 30 miles north of where I live). We are fatalistic about such stuff, but we o have farm land and know how to grow rice and could live off the grid if we had to.

urbane legend said...

Roughcoat, lay off it. What I initially posted was sarcasm, to point up the foolishness of valuing gold when there are far more important things. Did you notice the Yep? That should have set the tone. I understand. Sarcasm is not most people's first language. But my explanation was as clear as the sunrise. So one last time: you need to work on the reading comprehension.

Kirk Parker said...

Everyone talking about firearms: for a genuine TEOTWAWKI scenario, you don't need a good rifle and pistol, you need several of the same caliber. Part of what will be going away is the entire repair and spare-parts infrastructure.