November 11, 2016

Did Lena Dunham "celebrate" "the extinction of white men"?

The comic writer/actress put up a tweet with this video, which begins with her voice asking her father "How are you feeling about the extinction of white men?"



The video is presented with the caption "It's not the end of men, it's the evolution of men into better men. (beautiful animation by Sophie Koko Gate!)"

And it really is a very cool animation. The father's answer, heard in voiceover, is:
Well, white men are a problem. Straight white men are a big problem, that’s for sure. But I actually feel pretty good about it. I think straight white guys have been screwing things up for long enough. High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people do it.
At Breitbart, the video was said to be "celebrating the extinction of straight white men." I don't think she's "celebrating" anything but her own father. The implication is: Isn't he cool and funny? (Note that his last word, "it," refers to "screwing things up.")

The caption shows that she has the mild opinion that men are evolving into better men, not going extinct at all. But she got your attention, including getting somebody at Breitbart to raise up the righties in protest, which I'm sure she celebrates.

218 comments:

1 – 200 of 218   Newer›   Newest»
Michael K said...

Hasn't she left yet ?

Virgil Hilts said...

We need a version of the "war has never [solved/accomplished] anything except for" t-shirt for us straight white men to wear so that we can get the shit beat out of us by gangs of our more evolved and civilized betters.

TreeJoe said...

I reject the social acceptance of declaring classes of people "a problem" based upon gender, skin color, religion, and/or sexual orientation.

Darrell said...

This is the second time I've read that in as many weeks. The other was celebrating "the peaceful extinction of straight white men." That must mean we're dying naturally or turning gay. Or something. I'm on the lookout for the change.

rehajm said...

Hasn't she left yet ?

Sadly but as expected, no. She vowed to mourn until Sunday then get back in the fight, whatever that is...

AprilApple said...

No clicks from me.

Get out of here Lena. You promised.

traditionalguy said...

Extinction of father is called Parricide, and it is the oldest Crime in the books, even worse than fratricide. But then Lena's claim to fame is dreaming of simple lawlessness. To the mellineals, lawlessness is becoming like conspicuous consumption was to Veblen's the leisure class consciousness.

Trump's reality is the antidote to lawlessness.

Virgil Hilts said...

I think a lot of Trump voters held their nose and voted for DT just to get Lena to move to Canada as she promised she would. So this seems like a breach of contract. The voters performed their part of the bargain. Lena needs to perform hers.

mockturtle said...

So...why in the fuck are all these snowflakes talking about moving to Canada? Hypocrites!

ALP said...

Ugh, save me from this obsession with white men as the source of all evil. Does anyone really believe that a world run by, say, Chinese women would be all rainbows and cotton candy? A world where Nigerian Princes are at the top of the heap would be devoid of all conflict and hate, a chicken in every pot?

When feminists give up the use of every single thing INVENTED and developed by a white man, I'll believe they are serious about this hating on white men shit.

rehajm said...

"Mistakes" is the word you're too embarrassed to use. You ought not to be. You're a product of a trillion of them. Evolution forged the entirety of sentient life on this planet using only one tool: the mistake. - Robert Ford

tcrosse said...

They were right: Trump's election has opened the floodgates of Hate, Racism, Sexism and Intolerance.

mockturtle said...

The caption shows that she has the mild opinion that men are evolving into better men, not going extinct at all.

Men are 'evolving' into pussies. It could be all the hormones in beef and chicken production but it's most disturbing.

rehajm said...

So this seems like a breach of contract. The voters performed their part of the bargain. Lena needs to perform hers.

Maybe we can add a line item to a bill, perhaps above the one adding the 'voluntary extra tax payment' line to IRS 1040.

Lyle said...

I like Lena Dunham. Her film work is thoughtful and provocative. Don't agree with all of her politics, but more power to her.

rehajm said...

Men are 'evolving' into pussies. It could be all the hormones in beef and chicken production but it's most disturbing.

LOL!

You're on to something there, madam...

dreams said...

I just can't get excited about Lena. A nonentity.

buwaya puti said...

A world run by Chinese mother-in-laws would be just plain terrifying, my advice to young women.

Anyway, Dunhams thing is yet another driver towards American elite's self-extermination and dysgenics.

Darrell said...

Chelsea is going to run for Congress so there is plenty of motivation to make ourselves extinct.

Seeing Red said...

I think she has daddy issues.



Sebastian said...

"I think straight white guys have been screwing things up for long enough. High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people do it." OK, we'll step back, but on one condition. That we get to take everything we built, created and invented with us. I mean everything.

madAsHell said...

She confuses her immaturity for intellect.

Laslo Spatula said...

It's not the end of women, it's the evolution of women into better women.

Any day now.

I am Laslo.

rhhardin said...

Men are as sensitive as they have to be to get laid.

Seeing Red said...

We've been drinking birth control hormones since the pill.

I don't think they've filtered them out yet. I read a couple of years ago someone started working on a filter.

So much for clean water.

Static Ping said...

It is somewhat difficult to take the opinion of a child molester seriously.

MadisonMan said...

Like others, not clicking. Her opinions mean very little to me.

Seeing Red said...

It's a shame women are devolving.

dreams said...

"I think she has daddy issues."

Yeah, not much of a daddy.

chickelit said...

Put a fork in her. That ham is dun.

I shall keep pasting that tired unfunny cliche into every celebration of Lena Dunham which you post.

Have you done a post on whether she will keep her word and move to Canada?

steve uhr said...

Reminds me of Yellow Submarine.

greg charles said...

White men gave birth to, and presently champion, liberal philosophy in an illiberal world. Yet, somehow, we are the enemy.

rcocean said...

Who the hell is this person and why is always talking about her? She doesn't seem to be interesting, good looking, or funny.

That aside, you can read a lot of nuance in her statements, but like most Hollywood aka Entertainment Industry celebrities she wants white men to eat shit and die.

And white men return the compliment.

rcocean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Achilles said...

Confederates were always progressives and came from the left side of the political spectrum and were always democrats. It is no different today with cities all over the nation claiming they will defy immigration laws.

I am getting started in a coding school. Now that H1Bs are going to be slashed I am looking forward to much higher pay much sooner. I also look forward to seeing how other programmers, who are very liberal, view globalism and corporatism when the big tech corporations leave for India just like the manufacturing base left.

Paul Zrimsek said...

"Well, white men are a problem. Straight white men are a big problem, that’s for sure. I keep waiting for one of them to take you off my hands, but for one reason or another they never do." -- Pops Dunham

Luke Lea said...

In terms of differential fertility rates it is highly unlikely that men are evolving into "better men" in the sense that Dunham means. Quite the opposite.

Achilles said...

Lena wrote soft porn for women drawing on experience from a wealthy and sexually confused childhood.

She is also really smart on some topics and very stupid on other topics.

damikesc said...

So...why in the fuck are all these snowflakes talking about moving to Canada? Hypocrites!

More like racist hypocrites. They never want to go to Mexico.

mockturtle said...

buwaya says: A world run by Chinese mother-in-laws would be just plain terrifying, my advice to young women.

One of my daughters had a Korean mother-in-law. Just as scary. ;-)

Annie C said...

She's running out of relevance and is starting to sound desperate.

Laslo Spatula said...

Sketchy Guy Who Works at the Adult Bookstore says:

This sweaty young hipster comes into the Store, and asks if I have any 'films' of someone who looks like Lena Dunham getting fucked. He's hoping for anal, but will take whatever we got...

I tell him I don't know, he is free to peruse the 'Fat Chicks Fucking' aisle -- it's right under the sign that reads 'Fat Chicks Fucking'...

"She's not THAT fat," he says in an admonishing tone.

"Sure," I say, nodding. "There's a perfectly fine girl there. Underneath the emotionally-comforting layers of fat."

The customer turns on his heel and heads to the aforementioned 'Fat Chicks Fucking' section, and reviews the many 'films' available. I don't spend much time straightening the shelves of that aisle: I just alphabetize the 'A' section -- Anal, Ass, ATM -- at the front and let the customers sort out the rest. Maybe they would like it organized by ascending weight, I don't know...

So the hipster comes back, disappointed. "All those girls are FAT" he says, shaking his head. "Lena is only chubby."

"It's a fine line, I guess. But it looks like you found something."

"Yeah," he says, putting his 'film' on the counter for purchase. "This girl kinda looks like a chubby Natalie Portman," he says -- and she kinda does, if you replace the word 'chubby' with 'fat'...

I look at the cover, and tell him it looks like she does indeed do anal, but with a black guy: some people have a problem with that, I've found since working here.

"What does that matter?" he says, eyes narrowing. "I'm not a racist."

"I didn't say you were a racist. "I'm fine with black hairless balls bouncing off a fat Natalie Portman's chin. Just some people don't want the peas and carrots to touch."

"Can you just complete my purchase, please?"

"Sure," I say, ringing him up. "Do you want to be on our email newsletter? It'll let you know of any new 'Fat Chicks Fucking' items that come into the store."

"I told you, it's not about fat chicks fucking."

"That's right. Chubby is the word: got it. Well, enjoy your purchase," I say, as he leaves in a scrawny-ass huff...

Hipsters: they're going to ruin porn, I can tell...

I am Laslo.

SteveR said...

I can't have any respect for the intellectually silly notion that people can be better simply by not being "white", whatever that means, and "straight", whatever that means.

walter said...

Well..anything she can do to distance herself from her assumption a black guy should be into her.

alan markus said...

I think straight white guys have been screwing things up for long enough. High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people do it.

I think straight white guys have been screwing things up for long enough. High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people screw things up.

There, I think I fixed it.

lemondog said...

Oh enough already! Concentrate on critical issues!

Before they become extinct, when are those old white men in Sweden going to award the Nobel Peace Prize to Trump?! He hasn’t done anything.....

mockturtle said...

Hilarious, Laslo! Especially: Maybe they would like it organized by ascending weight, I don't know...

steve uhr said...

I's sure many of you have a problem with a seven-year old girl touching her younger sister, but have no problem when done by a 60 year old man to a perfect stranger.

Meade said...

"Men are 'evolving' into pussies."

So grab us already. Move on us like a bitch.

That is, if you're a star.

But of course, if you're gonna start kissing us, could you use some tic tacs or something? Thanks, girls. (You are 'girls' aren't you?)

mockturtle said...

But of course, if you're gonna start kissing us, could you use some tic tacs or something? Thanks, girls. (You are 'girls' aren't you?)

Not me, Meade. I'm an old woman! :-)

Qwinn said...

So what she says is only bad if they were talking about actual extinction, but as long as it was just calling straight white men a "problem", that's just "mild"?

What other ethnic group is it ok to call "a problem"? What statement to that effect would ever be called "mild" instead of "extremist" and "wildly racist"?

mockturtle said...

Genocidal, in fact.

Crimso said...

'I reject the social acceptance of declaring classes of people "a problem" based upon gender, skin color, religion, and/or sexual orientation.'

What could go wrong? Problems have solutions, and everyone loves solutions to problems. Especially if they're final. But that's hyperbole, obviously. Couldn't happen here (to any class of people).

But everyone would do well to remember Richard Evans' observation: if you could go back to the mid-19th century and tell a European that in the mid-20th century a country would make a very real attempt at genocide of the Jews, they would not be surprised. They would, however, be quite shocked when you tell them it was Germany and not France.

Eliminationist rhetoric is all fun and games, until...

Quaestor said...

Better men being gay, is that it?

Quaestor said...

I wonder who is more delusional, Lena Dunham or her interpreters.

Fernandinande said...

Racism is fun! Virtue signaling is exciting!

"High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people do it."

If those wonderful not-"straight white males" need permission from the naughty "straight white males", then the wonderful people can't "do it".

MaxedOutMama said...

Well, what with being a straight female, I have to say that straight men are the best. From my perspective. I don't see where they screw anything up any more than all humans do.

I don't understand the viewpoint, and I don't think men need to evolve differently or separately than we all do. Human societies have a lot of the chimp in them because human beings have a lot of chimp nature, and it is only our cultures which allow reason and humanity to build intellectual structures that allow us to be fully human.

It's obvious to me that cultures which embrace needless violence and needless oppression are superior to those that try to avoid violence and oppression. Looking around the world, it appears to me that the straight, largely-white Judeo-Christian men have done world culture a great service in such endeavors as, for example, creating much more scope for women, eliminating slavery, trying to transcend tribalism, etc.

So I am just totally turned off by all this sort of thing. Just nonsense, IMO.

I have never seen the point of Lena Dunham, and this certainly doesn't help me do that.

walter said...

Hang in there Meade. Bernie 2020 T-shirts in the works.

Rusty said...

And I should know this woman because...........................?

Fernandinande said...

mockturtle said...
So...why in the fuck are all these snowflakes talking about moving to Canada? Hypocrites!


Last I heard, Canada, like their other escape routes (NZ, Oz), was rather overrun with straight white males.

So I wonder why the snowflakes aren't moving to Mexico, Zimbabwe, China, or the Middle East?

It's a mystery. Well, either it's a mystery or they're just stupid.

fasteddyaintfast said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Clayton Hennesey said...


My voice was literally lost when I woke up, squeaky and raw, and I ached in the places that make me a woman, the places where I've been grabbed so carelessly, the places we are struggling to call our own.


This is not Laslo.

This is Lena.

khesanh0802 said...

I have a couple of simple questions: Who is Lena Dunham? Why should anyone care what she thinks? Perhaps one of the off shoots of Trumps victory will be the end of the myth that people in the Arts should be listened to when they have an opinion on the real world.

Gahrie said...

I do not understand why Althouse feels the compulsion to excuse and explain the actions and thoughts of this horrible human being.

rehajm said...

For the antidote to the Lena Dunham talk I strongly suggest taking a peek at Steven Colbert's Election Night special on Showtime. It starts as a celebratory leftie hatefest but by the end there's not a dry pair of pants in the house.

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

@ Mockturtle I hold out hope that as Trump begins to deal with real problems the men and women of this country will have enough confidence to be what they are. I think the days of men being forced to evolve into pussies are over. Of course, I am a former Marine so my view of the role of males may be somewhat distorted.

Incidentally, for all you fellow Marines (male and female) a belated happy 241st birthday. I hope you celebrated appropriately. I did. Semper Fi.

EMD said...

"Move on us like a bitch. "

Moveonlikeabitch.org

Paul Zrimsek said...

Rumors of white men's extinction are greatly exaggerated.

Alexander said...

Lena Dunham does not consider her or her father white - that term refers to Caucasians, not Jews. Tell Jews they have white privelege and see what happens.

EMD said...

" It starts as a celebratory leftie hatefest but by the end, there's not a dry pair of pants in the house."

I honestly can't keep up with progressive pants-shitting. It's endless. Everything is worthy of an outraged pants shit.

Progressives' laundry bills must be through the roof.

MayBee said...

I'm all for people having access to being leaders, no matter their color or sexual preference or gender.

But how are countries not run primarily by straight white men doing?

Korea and Japan are doing pretty well, but straight white men are protecting them militarily.

YoungHegelian said...

I think straight white guys have been screwing things up for long enough. High time for straight white males to step back and let some other people do it.

Says someone who doesn't know their history very well. Have white men done horrible things? Yep. The rest have done worse. Except for the women. They didn't do that stuff. They just made sure that the men who did do those nasty things and brought home the power & gold to them were always well supplied with pussy, thus ensuring those evil men would continue working their evil.

robother said...

This little piggy went to Jupiter,
And this little piggy went to Spain,
This little piggy went to Canada
And this little piggy went insane
And this little piggy was a self-centered little piggy, and went "Me! Me! Me!" all the way home.

YoungHegelian said...

Okay, & now to step on some toes, perchance.

When Dunham & her father talk about straight white men, it may be that they, as Jews, do not consider themselves to be "white". I have heard this line of thought out of the mouths of liberal Jews before. Perhaps some of the Jewish members of this forum can enlighten us as to how widespread this view is in the Jewish community. There is no shortage of lefty weirdoes in my orbit, & this may be an example of it.

My humble opinion --- when you're at the top of the heap in terms of income & educational levels in the US, you're whitey-white, muthafucka!

Rick said...

The caption shows that she has the mild opinion that men are evolving into better men, not going extinct at all.

1. Why isn't Althouse concerned about stereotyping she labels racist/sexist in other contexts? It's easy to claim something a "mild" when one doesn't subject it to the same level of scrutiny as ideas you oppose.

2. Note how mere ambiguity prevents concluding Dunham meant anything else (unconvincingly - there's an unambiguous statement that white men are screwing things up which she just ignores). Compare to her comments that libertarians need to affirmatively distinguish themselves from any position that could also have racial support or be considered supporters of racism. In one case ambiguity means exoneration while in the other it's irrelevant.

traditionalguy said...

Incidentally, the latest and greatest attack line on our new President is that Trump's Climate Change Hoax denial will take 40 years off the millennials life span by heating the air. Ergo: they are justified in murdering him. Lena is ahead of the curve.

walter said...

Blogger Alexander said...
Lena Dunham does not consider her or her father white - that term refers to Caucasians, not Jews.
--
Time for Lamar to set her straight

Big Mike said...

Now if only women would evolve into better women ...

YoungHegelian said...

@Alexander,

I apologize for not seeing your post before I posted. I try not to do stuff like that.

Well, at least one other person has also heard the "Jews aren't white" story.

AJ Lynch said...

Why do these arrogant celebrity libs get a pass when they see almost every issue through race?

Do they ever watch their own shows and consider how they slant the view of America?

Curious George said...

"AJ Lynch said...
Why do these arrogant celebrity libs get a pass when they see almost every issue through race?"

Almost every issue? Every fucking one:

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr6lr_VRsEo

Then read this:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/nov/10/john-lewis-christmas-advert-buster-the-bouncing-dog-a-sledgehammer-to-2016

Laslo Spatula said...

Excerpts from The Controversial Lena Dunham Sex-Tape:

"Lights off! Lights off...!

"No, that isn't the bed-sheet, that's my panties..."

"Those are crumbs, I think -- I just ate some cheesecake with graham-cracker crust, and it was divine..."

"Okay, I ate the whole cheesecake..."

"My breasts are higher up, higher -- that's just a skin roll: feel for the nipple..."

"You like my big, big nipples?"

"Put it in me, Roller Rink Boy..."

"I don't know why I said that, it's just something from childhood..."

"Not there... not there... There, I think..."

"Wait: I don't think that was it..."

"No, my thighs do not go farther apart..."

"The lube is on the night-stand, next to the jar of mayonnaise..."

"Wait -- I think I feel something!"

"That wasn't it..."

"Is it supposed to be that soft...?"

"Is it because I'm fat? Is it...?"

"No, no: I'm not crying..."

"Okay: Yes, I am crying. Will you please just go away...?"

"Don't leave me!"

"Wait here -- I think I have to pee..."

"No -- please wait! Have a Snickers -- there's some in the night-stand..."

"No, I don't know why you're itching..."

"Please don't tell your friends..."

I am Laslo.

William said...

Given the choice between building a wall for Trump or a tunnel for El Chappo, most Hispanics would opt for the Trump job. They would sneak across the border to take the job. The question is not why whites fuck things up, but why non-whites can't do better than the low bar we set........Those here who are criticizing Lena Dunham should take cognizance of the fact that no other society on earth could produce a woman like Lena Dunham. The white patriarchy her has produced a woman like Lena Dunham. You don't see women like her in Hispanic, Islamic or African cultures. What are we doing wrong?

AJ Lynch said...

Curious:

Wow - amazing how people see politics in that ad.

damikesc said...

This is not Laslo.

This is Lena.


She ached in places that made her a woman?

Like somebody had put rocks in there or something?

For the antidote to the Lena Dunham talk I strongly suggest taking a peek at Steven Colbert's Election Night special on Showtime. It starts as a celebratory leftie hatefest but by the end there's not a dry pair of pants in the house.

My wife has asked why I'm so giddy that somebody I wasn't dying to be President won. I told her because the right people I hate are completely losing their ever-loving shit and I'm having the best time.

Also, the President-elect has an awesome URL for his transition team. greatagain.gov.

mockturtle said...

It was interesting that exit polls revealed that nearly a third of Hispanics voted for Trump. That didn't really surprise me, nor did the fact that 12% of black MEN reported voting for Trump. I'm sure the numbers are much higher for both, given the inherent polling biases. Lefties and women are far more apt to answer polling questions than are conservatives and men. [Men, not pajama boys].

jeff said...

Not to worry Lena, you won't find anyone to do you, as the old saying goes, I wouldn't fuck her with your dick.

mockturtle said...

She ached in places that made her a woman?

Yeah, just thinking about Trump grabbing her pussy made her ache.

Curious George said...

"AJ Lynch said...
Curious:

Wow - amazing how people see politics in that ad."

Rush is right. It's a mental disorder.

tcrosse said...

As Dorothy Parker said, beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone.

n.n said...

Dunham does not appreciate diversity.

lemondog said...

..nor did the fact that 12% of black MEN reported voting for Trump

Betcha Obama wrote in his own name.....

Bob Loblaw said...

This is the kind of daft nonsense that put Trump into office, and the backlash is just starting.

SukieTawdry said...

Men are evolving into better men? Please define "better." And seriously, is there some implicit virtue in being gay??

I've long wished there were alternate universes where we could explore "what if..." For example, what if white men had not been ascendant? What if there had been no western civilization? What if there were no countries and no religion, too? What if all the people had lived for today? (See, I'm guessing Lena probably thinks John Lennon was an "evolved" man).

The animation is very cool.

Achilles said...

Blogger Big Mike said...
Now if only women would evolve into better women ...

Or at least stop devolving...

Jeff said...

Wait! Lena Dunham is a woman? Are you shitting me? Prove it!

SukieTawdry said...

Or at least stop devolving...

Man, I'll drink to that.

Meade said...

"Not me, Meade. I'm an old woman! :-) "

The older the better, I always tell my old woman/little girl.

SukieTawdry said...

Laslo, you have me in stitches today.

SukieTawdry said...

Best week for the Dow in five years. Just thought I'd mention that.

damikesc said...

Yeah, just thinking about Trump grabbing her pussy made her ache.

Seeing the word "pussy" in the same piece of writing as Lena Dunham makes my dick ache.

Basil said...

How, exactly has the white man screwed up anything? We have produced multiple advanced civilizations, many torn down by barbarian hordes.

Lena Dunham is advocating for the barbarian hordes.

Bruce Hayden said...

"No, I don't know why you're itching..."

"Please don't tell your friends..."


More Lasio gold.

Jeff said...

Yeah, but even the barbarian hordes were mostly straight white men as well. Basically, 95 percent or more of all the really consequential people who've ever lived were straight white males. This is just stupid.

Diamondhead said...

This came out a couple weeks ago, and Lena Dunham was supposedly fighting to get Hillary elected? Put whatever spin you want on it...it's the type of thing I can't imagine white men in rural Pennsylvania or Michigan would appreciate. The line at the end was the most noxious part to me. "That's my dad." Look how woke my dad is, doesn't even flinch at the thought of the extinction of straight white men. What a poisonous ideology.

Dude1394 said...

I get pretty tired of this constant bigotry towards men to be honest. I sort of wish all of the men were gone during WWII or whenever a catastrophe hits, you know so women can step up and risk life and limb.

It is as if the intelligentsia think that things will always be rosy and they can just talk it out.

Fabi said...

Trump got 12% of the black vote, subject to further evaluation? Hold up, Chuck! ;-)

320Busdriver said...

I sure don't know about that one but I just saw Ann Coulter's retweet of Lena's recap of the "3 blurred and spotty" hours she spent at the Javitz Center on election night.

It must be so hard. Enjoy!

surfed said...

Who is Lena Dunham for $500 Alex?

Henry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gk1 said...

Will electing Trump noticeably change this daily, liberal, kulturkampf we have to deal with? I was old enough to remember every action Reagan/Bush41/Bush43 took was criticized and ridiculed by pigs like Dunham. Will trump be able to arm and enable a rollback? Or have we decided to shrug and leave this sphere of influence alone?

SukieTawdry said...

I sort of wish all of the men were gone during WWII or whenever a catastrophe hits, you know so women can step up and risk life and limb.

Don't you get it? If women were in charge, there would be no war.

n.n said...

Dunham is an acolyte of the Pro-Choice Church. She is an advocate for the "=" congruence or selective exclusion under the rainbow banner. She is an advocate for abortion rites to end the life of unwanted and inconvenient human lives... to female chauvinists for political progress, to increase taxable revenue, keep women as serviceable commodities, and exploited for Democratic leverage. She is a class diversitist and backs institutional racism, sexism, and is probably a member of the anti-native faction in the Democratic Party. She should consider how she qualifies "progress" that results in one step forward, two steps back moral development. As for evolution, it's a chaotic process, whose value is assessed in a chosen fitness function.

If women were in charge, there would be no war.

Perhaps if women other than female chauvinists were in change. Clinton put to rest the liberal fantasy of immaculate progress. Still, we would count over one million casualties of rites and Planned Parenthood annually in America's abortion chambers alone. Progress, in the twilight zone.

mockturtle said...

Gk asks: Or have we decided to shrug and leave this sphere of influence alone?

I, for one, choose to ignore it altogether. Of course, this 'sphere of influence' isn't concerned about people my age. It will be interesting to see whether or not the millennials will be able to generate enough wealth to perpetuate the industry. They can't all be Lady Gaga.

n.n said...

so women can step up and risk life and limb

Fortunately, women are not a monolithic bloc. They do not neatly fit in the female class mold, or white female class mold. Their fathers, husbands, and sons will continue to place the lives of women and children first.

exiledonmainstreet said...

An evil bitch kicks her little boy out of the house because he "voted" for Donald Trump. At first I thought it was a joke, but clearly, judging by the boy's anguish, it is not. This is truly horrific child abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEyQnHfnkvk

Bay Area Guy said...

My wife's best friend really, really loved, "Girls." She kept yapping about it for months. Every single time we had dinner, or had her kids over, or ran into each other at the baseball field, she pestered me to watch, "Girls."

So, one night, I was flipping through channels, between sports, CNN, Foxnews, Duck Dynasty, and I stumbled across "Girls."

The scene had Ms. Dunham (or Ms. Horvath) dancing at a Club with some guy. Ok, not a big deal. When I was in my 20s, I too went to clubs.

But, then she casually asked her male dance partner on the dance floor to switch shirts (like after a soccer match). She took off her top, casually, without embarrassment, in public, exposing her breasts on the dance floor in all their small, floppy, flabby and unattractive glory.

It was traumatic. I almost retched. Frankly, it almost drove me to become gay.

I have disliked that woman and her silly show, ever since.


chickelit said...

@exiledonmainstreet: That's how the 'hood gets beaten into the boyhood.

Qwinn said...

"[Ethnicity X] is a big problem.]"

Still want to know who besides straight white men we can fill in for X and have the resulting sentence be described as "mild" by our hostess.

exiledonmainstreet said...

chickelit said...
@exiledonmainstreet: That's how the 'hood gets beaten into the boyhood.

11/11/16, 5:51 PM

It just astonishes me that she filmed that and put it on FB and thought people would applaud her cruelty to her own child. I hope someone contacts Child Protective Services. She's not fit to own a canary, much less children.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I meant "much less raise children," not own them, although she clearly thinks she does.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Gk1 said...
Will electing Trump noticeably change this daily, liberal, kulturkampf we have to deal with? "

I think the very fact that Trump was elected shows the daily liberal kulturkampf is losing its' power to persuade. Trump and his supporters were frequently mocked and derided and their response was a hearty "Go Fuck yourself."

My guess is that they will double down but if any of them have any brains whatsoever, Tuesday night must have shown them that a big segment of the country just isn't listening anymore.

Howard said...

Her Dad wants to be free of the white mans burden.

Rusty said...

Blogger Fabi said...
"Trump got 12% of the black vote, subject to further evaluation? Hold up, Chuck! ;-)"

I was way off.

William said...

NRO or the Standard should present an annual award to that celebrity whose words and actions brought the most disrepute upon celebrities. Call the award a Fonda. Miley Cyrus is a far bigger star than Dunham. She should be in contention, but she's too silly to be truly annoying. Plus you have to make allowances for her age. Maybe if she got a Love Trumps Hate tattoo, she could move up in the rankings.......The thought processes that led Katy Perry to plight her troth with Russell Brand, led her to support Hillary. Even so, there's something likable about her. I wouldn't even put her in contention. Lady Gaga is in contention, but her overall weirdness dims her political affect. She's just not that irritating when campaigning. ......Cher is fairly good at being obnoxious, She's probably older than Hillary in movie star years, so perhaps her years of service should be rewarded. In most years, I would have no real objection to her winning a Fonda, but there's the most impressive body of work that Lena Dunham has submitted this year. You've got to take into consideration that the other celebrities have some countervailing talent to counterbalance their political lunacy. But Dunham has no redeeming gift to validate her presence in the political arena, or rather her sole talent is her ability to irritate right thinking people on every known level of human understanding. In so many venues, so many forums she has found just the wrong words to say and just the wrong way to say them. The Fonda belongs to her. By some measures, she even surpasses Fonda, and that's going some.

mockturtle said...

"Trump got 12% of the black vote, subject to further evaluation? Hold up, Chuck! ;-)"


The data I've seen show 12% of the black MALE vote for Trump but only 4% of the black female vote; total black vote 8%. I believe both of these figures are low, however.

Terry said...

I think it is important for women to evolve into beings more pleasing to men. A marvelous authoress, Margaret Atwood, wrote a novel about this process called "The Handmaid's Tale."

Rhythm and Balls said...

Now that President-Elect Orange Man-Baby won, can we please stop pretending that chubby girl-babies like Lena Dunham really pose the bigger problem?

JAORE said...

The threats to leave the US, every 4 years are funny to me:
- The undermine what little credibility the celebrity MIGHT possess,
- Everyone knows they will never follow through, and
- They think the threat of their leaving is influential to many people.

But I agree with several above, what other ethnic group/race could you substitute for white male and not be labeled a racist?

Rhythm and Balls said...

When Dunham & her father talk about straight white men, it may be that they, as Jews, do not consider themselves to be "white". I have heard this line of thought out of the mouths of liberal Jews before. Perhaps some of the Jewish members of this forum can enlighten us as to how widespread this view is in the Jewish community. There is no shortage of lefty weirdoes in my orbit, & this may be an example of it.

"Dunham" is a northern British name, you stupid fuck, and Carroll Dunham is about as Protestant a gentile as they come.

As for your other befuddlements, I never noticed that Europeans sought a racial alliance with Jews over the course of their two-thousand year history of singling them out for special persecution. That only happened once the new world opened up a huge race-based society based on a market for a newly invigorated slave trade. Pretty recent historical innovation, that. But Jews apparently have much longer memories than you pagans do.

Read Constantine's Sword. It amazes me how ignorant you are of basic history. It often seems like you think that taking a woman in marriage erases her own history and replaces it with a more benign/whitewashed version of your own - the patrimony of her oppressors. Which is interesting, since you're from the South and southern white plantation owners seemed to think they were similarly making things better by raping their own black concubines. I'm sure they thought they were civilizing those savages in so doing, so what was the complaint? Where's the difference here?

And they say liberal college professors read too much to obscure what's right in front of their face. You've got all the moral sensitivities of a cockroach.

Rhythm and Balls said...

YH stands athwart history, yelling, "But Herr Hitler! Those Jews are white!!!"

Ha hahahahaha. What a retard.

Laslo Spatula said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
"Now that President-Elect Orange Man-Baby won, can we please stop pretending that chubby girl-babies like Lena Dunham really pose the bigger problem?"

R&B, see my 12:03 post about Lena and the usage of "chubby".

Babies are chubby: adult women with the body shape of a baby are fat.

I am Laslo.

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

R&B wrote: Now that President-Elect Orange Man-Baby won, can we please stop pretending that chubby girl-babies like Lena Dunham really pose the bigger problem?

She's not a problem outside this blog. It's just that Althouse has always insisted on fawning adulation for Dunham and especially her artistic sensibility. That's as far as it goes for me. That's all that I'm mocking.

Howard said...

Lena Dunham is a trigger that violates alt-right PC standards.

Rhythm and Balls said...

She's not a problem outside this blog. It's just that Althouse has always insisted on fawning adulation for Dunham and especially her artistic sensibility. That's as far as it goes for me. That's all that I'm mocking.

Art imitates life. Dunham's stuff may become annoying, but if you think it's not an accurate portrayal of the life she describes that can be observed all over America - then your problem is with reality. Not the art that's reflecting it.

Howard said...

Althouse is ringing a bell and watches the dogs salivate. Using blogs like this as evidence, Dr. Stephan Lewandowsky has made quite a reputation writing papers about your particular conservative conspiracy ideation and counterfactual thinking pathology.

Dr. Lew Wiki

William said...

Just about all the gentry fooled around with the domestic staff in the 19th century. People as diverse as Randolph Churchill, Karl Marx, Leo Tolstoy had their way with the staff. I don't know if it's fair to single out white plantation owners as being especially rapey. Would you say that these men were significantly worse than the African kings who had hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of wives? These men were contemporaneous with the plantation owners. One of them was so upset when his mother died that he ordered his two thousand brides to kill themselves. Maybe Nate Parker could make a movie about the terrors those poor women men suffered.

YoungHegelian said...

@R&B,

Okay, one by one here.

First, Hitler would never deny that the Jews were white, just as he would never deny that the Slavs were white. Nazi racial theory used the technical term "Volk" which covers the English terms race/ethnicity/nationality in all in one. The Slavs & Jews were white, but they were still the mortal enemies of the German Volk, according to Nazi ideology. Being "white" gave no one a racial pass in Nazi German.

"Dunham" is a northern British name, you stupid fuck, and Carroll Dunham is about as Protestant a gentile as they come

Yes, but Lena self-identifies as a Jew. That's just fact. She does not identify as WASP, even though she is half that. Why might you think that's the case? Maybe because her politics goes down easier if she self-identifies that way?

Why do you go off on a screed about some tendentious history of the Church & the Jews? Do you think I'm unaware of European Church history & its relationship to the Jews? I most certainly am not, as any follower of this forum knows well. I also don't see why the history of European persecution of the Jews has anything to do with why Lena Dunham gets to behave like a putz. Would you care to enlighten us?

So, Mr. Dunham is a WASP, & he's happy to slander his own in the comfort of his Manhattan wealth. If Dunham thinks that white men are a cancer on the planet, I know of a fast way he can reduce their number by at least one. While the archetype of the "Self-Hating Jew" is definitely a thing (e.g. Karl Marx), the "self-hating WASP" is even more so.

R&B, two commenters here independently (see my comment where I apologize for missing to Alexander for missing his comment) bring up the notion that they have heard some American Jews say that they are not "white". You go off on yet another incredibly rambling & insulting screed & don't even refer to the point at hand: well, do American Jews see themselves that way or not? If so, why? Since you seem to have so much experience with Jewish Americans maybe you could shed some light on the topic at hand, instead of blowing a gasket yet again on Jewish issues.

Laslo Spatula said...

Sketchy Guy Who Works at the Adult Bookstore says:

I have sympathy for the guys who go straight to the 'Fat Chicks Fucking' aisle: they keep their fantasies in touch with the lowered expectations of their circumstances -- not a bad trait to have, really. Of course, the Adult Bookstore isn't really the place you go to find people full of self-esteem...

Here's the thing: these guys are prepared to find a fat woman sexually attractive, and the sad thing is even fat women will have nothing to do with them. Sure, they may be losers, they may occasionally smell of semen and piss and greasy fast food, but I bet a good woman could clean most of them up...

No doubt many of these fat chicks cry into their pint of mocha chip ice cream at night over how no one wants to be with them, and yet they'll turn their nose up at the guys who actually DO want to be with them: even at the bottom of the pecking order there is ferocious pecking...

One evening at the bookstore there was a guy in the 'Fat Chicks Fucking' aisle who wasn't that bad, at least by guys-in-the-'Fat Chicks Fucking' aisle standards. Meanwhile, there was an obese woman two aisles over, looking at dildoes. They were SO close, and yet they made their purchases and went their separate ways, to their lonely apartments for a night of listless mechanical release and sublimated self-loathing...

All this said, I don't judge, except for the guys who like the shitting-on-girls-in-pigtails videos: I'm afraid they are on their own...

I am Laslo.

Michael K said...

I see R&B is back to his brand of pathology.

See ya later.

chickelit said...

"Art imitates life. Dunham's stuff may become annoying, but if you think it's not an accurate portrayal of the life she describes that can be observed all over America - then your problem is with reality. Not the art that's reflecting it."

I don't think Lena Dunham reflects any meaningful American cohort. How do I know that? I have a teenaged daughter who watches almost anything and "Girls" is not one of that. I think Dunham's fan base is mostly gay male* (based on who thinks she's fabulous). If that's your world, I accept that.
____________

*This also explains Althouse's ongoing fascination with Dunham

Rhythm and Balls said...

First, Hitler would never deny that the Jews were white, just as he would never deny that the Slavs were white. Nazi racial theory used the technical term "Volk" which covers the English terms race/ethnicity/nationality in all in one. The Slavs & Jews were white, but they were still the mortal enemies of the German Volk, according to Nazi ideology. Being "white" gave no one a racial pass in Nazi German.

If the guy who killed more than a third of them in a major industrial genocide didn't see any advantage for them by naming them as "white," then why should they? Because they should take some sort of pride in being of the class that was too privileged to enjoy being made slaves in America, as you and other white identity fanatics do? I guess they would have to re-write the meaning of the entire holiday of Passover, if that's the case. Identify on the basis of some phony scheme related to color for the sake losing their pride in overcoming slavery at the hands of a pharaoh much more interesting to history than your cotton profiteers ever were. Nope, I'm not seeing the appeal there. You really are a hard-core Southerner, aren't you?

"Dunham" is a northern British name, you stupid fuck, and Carroll Dunham is about as Protestant a gentile as they come

Yes, but Lena self-identifies as a Jew.


You mentioned her father, as did I. That's what I responded to. Are you illiterate as to what you write? Or do you expect me to be?

That's just fact. She does not identify as WASP, even though she is half that. Why might you think that's the case? Maybe because her politics goes down easier if she self-identifies that way?

I think I already addressed the issue. Is this about her or her father? I didn't bring up her father. You did.

Why do you go off on a screed about some tendentious history of the Church & the Jews?

Lol. Tendentious? You think the history of European Jews can be separated from the church? Most of what they became directly resulted from determining how to make the most of life despite their dealings with the church. The church was not some removed entity from their lives. It determined how Europe would treat them, and therefore the responses available to them.

Do you think I'm unaware of European Church history & its relationship to the Jews?

I don't know. I think you seem to minimize it.

I most certainly am not, as any follower of this forum knows well.

Well, then if you are, perhaps it was on other threads. Or I missed it. Mea culpa.

I also don't see why the history of European persecution of the Jews has anything to do with why Lena Dunham gets to behave like a putz. Would you care to enlighten us?

No. Because I have no idea what your point is. But suffice it to say, Israelites seem to be a much more rebellious people than you appreciate or want to give them credit for. Abraham was an idol smasher. Moses was a liberator. Very disruptive to the social orders, but you seem to have a special grudge against people who don't go along with a social order. Whether it's one mandated by an institution as powerful as the church used to be or the ones imagined by conservatives today. We are at cross-purposes if you want and believe that Jews are or should be some sort of especially docile people, politically. Europe tried to do that to them, and they complied as best they could. But that sort of relationship to society is nowhere to be found in those books of theirs that y'all seem to love best. Where in any of the OT does it exhort people to be very accommodating of earthly authority? If you find passages along those lines, could you be a dear and kindly pass them along? Because I can't seem to find them anywhere. The whole text seems to read completely to the opposite to that, from what I can tell.

Rhythm and Balls said...


So, Mr. Dunham is a WASP, & he's happy to slander his own in the comfort of his Manhattan wealth.

Again with the WASP dad.

If Dunham thinks that white men are a cancer on the planet, I know of a fast way he can reduce their number by at least one.

There's a difference between a social critique and a biological one, I should hope. And most people believed this was the case. Confusing cultural identity with biological identity seems to have started with Torquemada, and had a sordid history up to that point. So perhaps you might be best to interpret the tortured Mr. Dunham's issues with "whiteness" as one related to cultural and social institutions. But if you need to reduce it to something biological, I guess you can take the Southerner out of the south, but you can't take the south out of the southerner.

While the archetype of the "Self-Hating Jew" is definitely a thing (e.g. Karl Marx), the "self-hating WASP" is even more so.

Well, that would be unfortunate. I don't think anyone should be "self-hating." Self-critical? That's another thing. Why criticize others if one can't criticize the self? Why criticize other cultures if one can't criticize one's own?

Is there something that prevents criticism from becoming hateful? I think so. It's called balance. It's called reason. It's called humaneness. The same things that allow us to criticize behaviors and instutitions (even cultural institutions) that cause the things that are worth stopping.

R&B, two commenters here independently (see my comment where I apologize for missing to Alexander for missing his comment) bring up the notion that they have heard some American Jews say that they are not "white". You go off on yet another incredibly rambling & insulting screed & don't even refer to the point at hand: well, do American Jews see themselves that way or not? If so, why? Since you seem to have so much experience with Jewish Americans maybe you could shed some light on the topic at hand, instead of blowing a gasket yet again on Jewish issues.

I don't understand the purpose of this summary. We seem to have already spoken to it. (Or at least I did). If you really think that Jews should seek a white European identity that hasn't been used for any good other than to privilege themselves over the less white peoples of the land, you should know better. Read this book called "EXODUS". They were at the forefront of the civil rights movement. For a reason. And they were never really a well-integrated part of Europe. Even Europeans don't give a shit about color. Why should they? Why should anyone? They do the natural thing and ground themselves in their own national and cultural identities. Seeking to ground one's identity in something as stupid and arbitrary and literally superficial as color is nonsense. And Jews figured this out the moment they re-established the state of Israel in 1948, welcomed in a million oriental Jews expelled from Arab countries, and suddenly saw their collective tones darken by a shade or two. And then went from there. And never gave each other any grief about it. Perhaps they thought their own 3,000 year national history was enough to draw strength from insofar as a common identity and nation-building project goes.

Or perhaps there's something you know about the supposed real-life, legitimate and moral advantages of whiteness and color that they don't and that you can teach them.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Michael KKK:

No one really cares if you stay or go. Do you not realize that?

Just like when you smell your own farts, your contributions here are vastly over-rated by yourself.

Please go sniff your own farts elsewhere. And don't tell us about that, either.

Now goodbye.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I don't think Lena Dunham reflects any meaningful American cohort.

Who are you to say what's meaningful? That's one word. A very small, simple word - into which you can project a whole world of subjective dismissal. But I'm sure the explanation will be insightful...

How do I know that? I have a teenaged daughter who watches almost anything and "Girls" is not one of that.

So you have a sample size of... 1. N=1. Very unscientific. Did you know that people can be objectively studied? Sample sizes of one are meaningless. Even if they came out of your wife. Would you ever do an experiment with just two molecules? What would your conclusions be? Many reactions have multiple products. An equilibrium of reactions in many directions leaving unequal yields, that tell us about reactivity.

But we would know nothing about this if we were prevented from using anything other than quantum chemistry.

I think Dunham's fan base is mostly gay male* (based on who thinks she's fabulous). If that's your world, I accept that.

Be snide, if you want. But I do believe I just crushed your very inadequate social analysis.

Her world is urban. And east coast. And young. And you sound like someone who has been to Brooklyn in like, well, never actually.

Terry said...

Some people think that celebrated artistic persons, like Dunham and Barbara Streisand (or Dennis Miller), have opinions about politics or society that have more value, or are more accurate, then the goofy guy next door.
They don't.
Years ago I knew some rock-n-roll people. I had a part time gig fixing PA equipment.
For the most part these rock guys were really stupid, like they didn't know it was called World War Two because there was a previous world war stupid.
I've heard that the "stupid celebrity" is an American specialty, because the path to acting stardom is all-consuming in the US, and Hollywood's obsession with youth requires that these young men and women forego college for a shot at Hollywood. Celebrities aren't paid to be smart.
I, on the other hand, am paid to be smart :)

I looked up Barbara Streisand's bio on the Wikipedia. I think that her education and career path are probably typical for a celebrity:
She attended Erasmus Hall High School in Brooklyn in 1955 where she became an honor student in modern history, English, and Spanish. She also joined the Freshman Chorus and Choral Club, where she sang with another choir member and classmate, Neil Diamond.[31] Diamond recalls, "We were two poor kids in Brooklyn. We hung out in the front of Erasmus High and smoked cigarettes." The school was near an art-movie house, and he recalls that she was always aware of the films they were showing, while he wasn't as interested.[32]

During the summer of 1957 she got her first stage experience as a walk-on at the Playhouse in Malden Bridge, New York. That small part was followed by a role as the kid sister in Picnic and one as a vamp in Desk Set.[23]:4 She returned to school in Brooklyn but never took dramatic arts classes, preferring instead to gain some real-world stage experience. To that end, in her sophomore year, she took a night job at the Cherry Lane Theater in Greenwich Village helping backstage. When she was a senior, she rehearsed for a small part in Driftwood, a play staged in a midtown attic space.[23]:5 Her co-star in Driftwood was Joan Rivers.

At age sixteen, she graduated from Erasmus Hall in January 1959, and despite her mother's pleas that she stay out of show business, she immediately set out trying to get roles on the New York City stage.[23]:5 After renting a small apartment on 48th street, in the heart of the theater district, she accepted any job she could involving the stage, and at every opportunity, she "made the rounds" of the casting offices.[23]:5

mockturtle said...

even at the bottom of the pecking order there is ferocious pecking...

Another epigrammatic Laslo line.

Gretchen said...

Lena has lived a life of privilege. Her father is a perv artist who is obsessed with what Trump likes to grab. She lived a life of extreme wealth because of white people who bought her parent's "art" and "photography". She attended a private grade and high school that costs around $30K per year. Sadly Lena hates a large group of people in the country based on race and gender. It is likely Lena has never held a conversation or become close to someone who makes less than her school tuition cost per year. She is disgusting inside and out, and appears to have severe psychological issues, and sexually abused her younger sister.

Who cares what she thinks?

walter said...

Laslo Spatula said...Babies are chubby: adult women with the body shape of a baby are fat.
--
"Full figured"
"Rubenesque"
"a little extra"
Butt yes..when living in the heartland, a dude sometimes attempts to convince himself that size doesn't matter...not typically successfully.
Butt R&B provides sufficient entertainment value to make that reality less weighty.

chickelit said...

@R&B: You've crushed nothing. I never pretended to have a scientific basis, just a better real life judgement for something you claimed existed "all over America."

chickelit said...

Now, if you want to discuss how RuPaul swept America, that would be a different story indeed.

walter said...

Good of Lena's Dad to play so nicely with his derelict daughter, who inadvertently alerted mom to her pebbles in her sister's vagina.
Norman ROCKwellian..

Rhythm and Balls said...

I never pretended to have a scientific basis, just a better real life judgement for something you claimed existed "all over America."

Science begins with objectivity and reason. A sample size of ONE, just because she lives with you, is neither objective nor reasonable. In fact, it's probably the opposite. Confirmation bias on the basis of proximity and consanguinity.

As for "all over America," your point is valid but limited. Ask young, ambitious, interested-in-the-world (and therefore art and life) American youth whether they would rather consume media based on the lives lived by young Brooklynites or by young Nebraskans (or whatever) and I think you'll find your answer. Or transport yourself back to the 1990s and propose the same experiment regarding Manhattanites when Sex and the City was all the rage.

Flyover land is important, but it's important not to hate or resent. Hell, HBO even tried a series about Mormon polygamists called Big Love. But I guess the market didn't really reward that one, either.

Terry said...

"Full figured"
"Rubenesque"
"a little extra"

"Zoftig" is classier.
I remember discovering, at about age fifteen :), that one of the big differences between boys and girls my age was that girls, even the skinny ones, were softer than boys.

walter said...

"Flyover land is important, but it's important not to hate or resent. Hell, HBO even tried a series about Mormon polygamists called Big Love."
i.e. You don't have a clue about "flyover land"

Terry said...

Science begins with objectivity and reason.
People can't be objective because they aren't objects. Science begins with observation, not objectivity. Reproducible experiments and observations were supposed to eliminate the subjective experience. But of course, a lot of what passes for science these days is not observation of reproducible experiments, esp. in economics and the social sciences.
Bacon wanted the investigator to be simply an observer and recorder of events.

YoungHegelian said...

@R&B,

So, I have just one question for you: Who gets to determine who has "white privilege"? Do we whites get to deny that we have white privilege? If so, I guess most of us would, & the concept falls apart as a politically useful term.

But, the answer as to who has white privilege in post-Marxist Lefty thought gets to be determined by oppressed non-whites, does it not? Of course white people would deny their privilege. It's just like fish doesn't know it's wet.

Do you think that those "oppressed brown people" don't see Jews as having "white privilege"? Judging from the depths of antisemitism & anti-Zionism among those communities, which has been there for a long time (at least the late 60's with the rise of the Black Power movements), those oppressed peoples think that Jews have white privilege.

So, what your saying is that every other "White" ethnicity doesn't get a pass on their (lack of) consciousness of their privilege, but the Jews do. That, somehow, in spite of being at the top of the heap in economic & educational terms, the American Jewish community is somehow "oppressed", & given the magical gift, unavailable to all us other honkies, of choosing their own moral standing in the hierarchy of oppressed peoples.

'Cause that's pretty much what I read you as saying.

walter said...

Terry, those terms have become heavily abused...err..stretched.

Rhythm and Balls said...

i.e. You don't have a clue about "flyover land"

I'm sorry, walter. I'm sure that suburbs are very exciting places.

And guns are very wondrous things! Just ask the Chinese!

Religion?

I don't know, walter. Enlighten me. Better yet, pitch your script to HBO.

The last exciting flyover land piece of mass media art I enjoyed was American Beauty.

But maybe it's gotten better since then.

As Trump promises to "make America great," perhaps you can convince me that it's not just about the spine-tingling stories swapped between Wally and the Beaver and Ward and June Cleaver.

But really, I'm just effing with you. At the risk of sounding too arrogant, I really don't see a point in indulging your cultural grudges about the supposed artistic wonders of abandoning the polis or coastal life.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Science begins with observation, not objectivity.

It begins with measurement, actually. Which is pretty objective. We don't just "eyeball" things. Looks about right, Mr Rutherford! Maybe those atomic particles didn't bounce off that nucleus thing-y!

Please tell me you're not that guy that Trump's going to install in the EPA. Cause he looks like someone who never passed a science course. Let alone anyone who ever saw the inside of a freaking laboratory.

But that's Republicans for you, I guess.

walter said...

R&B runs that elitist shit up the flagpole yet not enough salute.
So sad..

Saint Croix said...

No cafe post tonight, so I'm going to jam this here.

I am struck by how ill-educated our millennials are. It's really bad! I hear "college-educated" now and I think "college-indoctrinated."

I had a conversation with a young man, about 28, big Bernie supporter, and we were talking about socialism. And he kept saying he was a "democratic socialist" and "socialism had never been tried." It was bizarre to me, that this intelligent person could be so ignorant. And it hit me that he had been indoctrinated, hard, while he was in college and had not yet freed himself of this really lousy education. I tried stuff like asking him if "$100 an hour" would be a good minimum wage, and if we should try it. And how it would cause inflation and unemployment, and Democrats know this. You would think college-educated people would know this too! And yet he had no idea. It was shocking to me how little he had been prepared to think, he just keep regurgitating the stuff that had been baby-fed to him.

That's the other thing that struck me, how infantile our young adults are. How they are so emotional and ill-equipped for the realities of the world. An attorney at my consulting firm, and his wife, are making a road trip to another city to visit their son who is in medical school. And they are visiting him because this election has so devastated him that he doesn't want to talk about it. All he said was "Fuck" on facebook, and now he's not talking or answering the phone. Anyway they are driving up to buy him a steak.

So much fear in our youth! Fear of talking, fear of the other, fear of free speech, fear of democracy. Fear and bad economics. I think Trump should talk about this in his acceptance speech. He should apologize for the crappy education from our public schools. And he should offer the opportunity for a young student in our public schools to declare bankruptcy and get out from this awful student debt. He should also, simultaneously, talk about firing a lot of people from our public schools for this bad education.

And finally he should leave the private schools alone. No bankruptcy offer for you! It's your own fault if you got a bad private education. And no private school administrators will be fired. Teach kids about the public/private distinction, and how they should not trust the government. Let this be a lesson to you! Sometimes governments are bad. And the public school, apparently, has become an indoctrination arm of the government.

Finally he should talk about bringing free speech back into the public schools. Comedians don't want to go to universities! Kids don't know how to laugh! And he should talk about all the anti-male hysteria in the public schools.

And maybe he could also explain to the kids that bankruptcy might help them ("I've used bankruptcy a few times, as you might know!") but it might hurt you, too. And he might call on the public schools to teach kids about capitalism, the greatest engine for wealth creation in the world, and how the stock markets work. All they have seemed to learn is that socialism is wonderful and capitalists are evil.

Boy, some old people need to be fired! And some young people need a fresh start. That should his message to our youth, I think. A wake up call. (And of course the point of this speech is to make a deal with the left: open up bankruptcy for our kids and their awful debts, while fixing the awful, awful problems at the university-level by bringing free speech to universities across our land, and firing all these administrators). In other words, the kids should not be scared, but some of the people who have been frightening them should be scared. Bully the bullies who have bullied our youth!

(Not a call to revoke tenure for faculty, by the way. It's a call to fire administrators who have no tenure and deserve to lose their jobs).

walter said...

"So much fear in our youth! Fear of talking, fear of the other, fear of free speech, fear of democracy. Fear and bad economics. I think Trump should talk about this in his acceptance speech. He should apologize for the crappy education from our public schools. And he should offer the opportunity for a young student in our public schools to declare bankruptcy and get out from this awful student debt."

I'm sorry..what were their majors? Were there no parents advising them in their trek into "higher" ed? You know..the parents that Obama tied 26yr olds to regarding healthcare?

Rhythm and Balls said...

So, I have just one question for you: Who gets to determine who has "white privilege"?

Why should anyone get to determine it? It seems like a pretty simple and straightforward thing. If cultural history has any resilience, then not being looked upon as someone befitting only enslavement, lynching, rape or ignorance has had advantages, and allowed for the accumulation - over many generations - of greater cultural/social capital.

Do we whites get to deny that we have white privilege?

Why would you want to or need to? What do you resent about it? And if resentment is the reason, how is that an objective dismissal?

If so, I guess most of us would, & the concept falls apart as a politically useful term.

And so concludes your circuitous straw man.

But, the answer as to who has white privilege in post-Marxist Lefty thought gets to be determined by oppressed non-whites, does it not?

If people don't say you're "black," then you're probably white. You can over-complicate and politicize it all you want. Doesn't resolve the issue. Maybe you prefer to keep the issue unresolved, though. The south is notorious for refusing to reconcile its past errors.

Of course white people would deny their privilege. It's just like fish doesn't know it's wet.

Do you think that those "oppressed brown people" don't see Jews as having "white privilege"?

Jews (in America) HAVE WHITE PRIVILEGE! JEWS HAVE WHITE PRIVILEGE! JEWS HAVE WHITE PRIVILEGE!

Judging from the depths of antisemitism & anti-Zionism among those communities, which has been there for a long time (at least the late 60's with the rise of the Black Power movements), those oppressed peoples think that Jews have white privilege.

And they are right. Not that you need to lump that in with their other issues or Zionism, etc.

Rhythm and Balls said...

So, what your saying is that every other "White" ethnicity doesn't get a pass on their (lack of) consciousness of their privilege, but the Jews do.

No. Jews are an ethnicity, who also benefited from white privilege. Some owned slaves. (Farrakhan was right, narrowly - as demagogues usually are). But "white" is not an ethnicity. Ethnic groups have common languages and histories. White Americans might think of that category as an ethnicity because they lost or forgot what cultural traits their grandparents from this country or that brought with them. Unfortunate, I guess. But doesn't change the reality. America is an agglomeration experiment, of sorts. And this is destructive to culture. But that's just the way it goes. I can't change it. And you can't change it by substituting an artificial racial category (all racial categories are artificial, BTW) with an ethnic one.

That, somehow, in spite of being at the top of the heap in economic & educational terms, the American Jewish community is somehow "oppressed", & given the magical gift, unavailable to all us other honkies, of choosing their own moral standing in the hierarchy of oppressed peoples.

Jews may or may not care about American PC culture. But they do remember their history and the lessons of it -regardless of how good life in America has been to them.

'Cause that's pretty much what I read you as saying.

Oh, you really do like to read what you want, don't you!

Read what I wrote. It should help provide needed detail and context to what you seem to be oversimplifying - THIS time.

If I may, I believe that you allow American culture to define you too much. Again, as I said. American culture is agglomerating. That's fine. Or horrendous. But it is disruptive. Much of what we do is. But it has other advantages. Life in the south convinced you to elevate a phony racial category as if it were culture. It's not - at least post-bellum. Go back to your roots. Cook some cajun. Or whatever. But really, do get over the assignments doled out by Confederacy. They're stale and very un-useful.

walter said...

Should a young adult be given some kind of less detrimental bankruptcy than a young adult outside of the college bubble?

walter said...


Definition of agglomerate
agglomeratedagglomerating

transitive verb

: to gather into a ball, mass, or cluster

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I put a link to that (the original, not the Brietbart article) in a cafe post like a week ago, Professor. Do you not follow each and every link commenters post to all your open items? I am heartbroken.

Let's play a game, though. "Well, black men are a problem. Young urban black men are a big problem, that’s for sure." Whoa, talk about ugly!

"Well, gay men are a problem. Promiscuous gay men are a big problem, that’s for sure." Hey, that's a hate crime, how dare you!?

But yeah, Dunham's dad is so woke it hurts--what a cool dude. He's one of the GOOD ones, you see.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I'm glad you're reading the dictionary, walter.

I guess that project for telling me about the cultural mecca entrance points I can start with in the Midwest etc. got more boring more quickly than you anticipated?

walter said...

Nah..yer just a pompous dick ;)

Rhythm and Balls said...

If it helps, most white ante-bellum southerners were Irish or Scots-Irish who lost their identification with Catholicism by becoming secularized in the new Republic.

The wealth afforded them by slavery made them aristocrats - on a scale that they could never before DREAM. That newfound status was exhilirating. Europeans rightly found them to be more cultured than their vulgar compatriots up north.

FINALLY, the Irish who had been treated like shit by the Anglos for centuries had something that made them AS GOOD AS the yankee WASPS. They sure as hell weren't going to give up what made them that way, economically!

A short, useful and unfortunately often hidden history of the south - and its issues regarding their cultural identities and conflicts in America.

I could write a book.

P.S. This does not mean that there weren't "poor" white Southerners. There were. And made poorer after the war. Still nowhere near as devastating a loss as being black for the last 250 and next 100 years.

Perhaps they came some way toward "creating" their own, organic ethnic history in the new land. But their loss in the Civil War brought them back on par with the American agglomerating experiment.

mockturtle said...

R&B, the Scots-Irish were never Catholic.

mockturtle said...

And don't bother writing the book--Jim Webb has already done a pretty thorough job of it.

walter said...

Pompous dick to write book missing forest for the trees. Can't wait.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Well, I might have muddled that bit up, mockturtle. But this was never a "clean" history, anyway. It's based on 2/3rds ante-bellum Southern whites being secularized, formerly Catholic Irish and 2/3rds ante-bellum Northern whites being Anglos.

That provides as much of the bigger picture as anyone needs to know - re: where Southern whites got their classist superiority complex from. They finally developed a culture that was seen as superior in traditional European terms: Secular, wealthy, noble.

So, they were better than the Anglos, by anyone's standards at the time. That's why they resisted relinquishing the slave empire that got them that way.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Your "contributions" walter (if you can call them that) seem to be becoming shorter, bitchier and more resentful. But just as personal as before.

I suppose this is the part where you complain about the sindeness of dismissing whatever cultural strengths and insights you were supposed to bring to the thread, as promised. On behalf of everyone who hates living near large bodies of water or other people, or soemthing.

walter said...

Your verbosity (typed, of course) can be sufficiently distilled as I have done.

walter said...

Besides, you dismiss vast swaths of the populace with far less..

Rhythm and Balls said...

I dismissed nothing. I asked for you to regale me with references to the cultural accomplishments of (whtaever) part of the country (I see us as one, anyway), and you couldn't do it. So again, you've got resentment just for its own sake.

As for verbosity, I concede that I am not a monk, living in a monastery. But I wasn't aware that all wisdom and knowledge is to be found in shutting up. Some of us actually like reading. Like writing.

But what do we readers and writers know. You're the culture maven.

Or just another ordinary asshole with a HUGE (YOOOOGE) chip on his shoulder.

Get over yourself. Not having something to offer doesn't make you better than me. It makes you someone who takes out his resentment for how boring he is on others.

walter said...

Keep going..dig, dig, dig. (use a straw for oxygen)

narciso said...

who gives a farthing about lena cyrus or miley dunham, they are interchangeable idiots,

William said...

I get the sense that Rhythm has read Howard Zinn's magnum opus and feels qualified to instruct us in the lessons of history........Here are some odd facts. Torquemada was himself a converso. The Spanish Inquisition was pretty nasty but as religious persecutions go, it doesn't qualify for even the top ten percent, let alone the top ten. Over several centuries only about five or ten thousand people perished. The English exaggerated its atrocities in order to justify the looting of Spanish treasure ships and colonies. Certainly Cromwell killed and enslaved more Irish Catholics than Torquemada killed Jews......I have Irish, English and Jewish ancestry. All of my ancestors have been at different turns of the wheel oppressors or victims.......All dead people are equal but not all dead people are equally mourned. The Serbs massacred Croats just after WWII and again during the breakup of Yugoslavia. The first time it was the tragedy of war, and the second time an atrocity. And, of course, when the Croats got the opportunity they massacred the Serbs.......I can't find any great moral in the study of history. Shit happens.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Shit happens becase you let it happen. THAT'S the lesson of history.

It's possible that the Irish came closer to genocide than the English or the others, but that's not saying much. When you have a big country, you get to lose more people. Waste more of them on more wars. Hey! Power's wonderful.

Not sure what your deal is about Torquemada. I brought him up because he represents the change from persecuting for belief (always a great thing) to persecuting for ancestry. That's important to history - and not just an odd fact.

A relevant fact. Especially given the resilience of people obsessed by what's in their "blood" - as my interlocutor above seemed to be.

I never once read Howard Zinn. But feel free to oversimplify and fit me into whichever oversimplified kooky political scheme feels most comfortable to you. I'm used to it, by now.

walter said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
I dismissed nothing. I asked for you to regale me with references to the cultural accomplishments of (whtaever) part of the country (I see us as one, anyway), and you couldn't do it.
--
Where was that?

Saint Croix said...

I'm sorry..what were their majors? Were there no parents advising them in their trek into "higher" ed? You know..the parents that Obama tied 26yr olds to regarding healthcare?

The real point of this is to clean house at the university-level, and get rid of all the socialist propaganda. It's a bribe to the red diaper babies. Simultaneously he is mocking them for their bad education. You people are so dumb, you're going into bankruptcy!

People who have not been to college can feel happy that they missed all this bad education. Your university diploma might be worthless! It would have been better to go to trade school and learn a useful craft in the world! Message to Trump voters: don't feel bad about your lack of a university degree. You have street smarts and you are in better shape than they are.

Trump should also push hard for school vouchers and empower parents/kids to leave bad schools and find good schools. Hit the public unions, hard. (While leaving the private unions alone).

I'm not sure my proposal is a good idea, by the way! Haven't run the numbers on how many people might go into bankruptcy, and how much money this will cost. But one thing it will do is impress upon the college-educated how dumb they have been, and how much help they need. They have been victimized by the left.

As for Trump's voters, all they need is a stronger economy and less regulations. What they really need are jobs. Capitalists create jobs, not socialists. By freeing up capitalism, and deregulating our economy, we will see a real economic boom.

Note too the lesson in this proposal. If you have a good college degree, you probably found a job and you don't need any help. But if you have a shitty, leftist-stupid college degree? You are in economic distress. You now have a mechanism for getting out of it, but you will have to submit to the indignities and shame of bankruptcy.

walter said...

Saint Croix said...The real point of this is to clean house at the university-level.

Unlike elections, very hard to do, no?

Here,
This past week, I was working on a documentary project that in part was in a UW-Madison dorm building.
The generic conference room had 3-D wood-esque wall coverings befitting a a high end penthouse.
For years, we have had the tech to drastically reduce the cost of impersonal large hall lectures. Yet, college costs still far outpace inflation.
It's a racket, much like DC and its hub of blood sucking guv' and NGO hanger ons...sorry Ann.

walter said...

-But if things don't turn around, the little people might be able to skim the pools of statistically higher compensated public sector retirees.
Ya know..flyover land, R&B.

Jon Ericson said...

hillarys-nasty-paid-internet-trolls-get-canned

walter said...

God forbid the Berno "free college" kids learn about the ridiculous trajectory of college costs squarely centered within the "information highway" years.

Terry said...

YoungHegelian said...
@R&B,

So, I have just one question for you: Who gets to determine who has "white privilege"?

The people who are privileged above white privilege, of course. The ability to bestow privilege lies above any privilege that is bestowed.
One of the things that defines an aristocracy is that they are self-selected. Only aristocrats can make an aristocrat.

Terry said...

mockturtle said...
R&B, the Scots-Irish were never Catholic.

11/11/16, 10:45 PM

Surely the Scots that Cromwell used to colonize Ireland were not Catholic, but their ancestors had been Catholic. A kind way of looking at Knox and the other reformers is that they had sincere doubts about the authority of the Church and the pope to guide their souls' way to God and Heaven. A more cynical eye would note that the reformers were not particularly devout and that they had their eyes on the lands and the wealth of the Church. The Catholic Church, in the 16th Century and before, was universal and transnational. If you really believe that nationalism is a curse on mankind, you should support traditional Catholicism.

Saint Croix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Terry said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
Well, I might have muddled that bit up, mockturtle. But this was never a "clean" history, anyway. It's based on 2/3rds ante-bellum Southern whites being secularized, formerly Catholic Irish and 2/3rds ante-bellum Northern whites being Anglos.

This is literally gibberish, R&B. It's like you are randomly shoving smart-sounding words together.

Achilles said...

It is interesting watching people here try to claim other people are trying to divide us and other people are racist or whatever. For example White guy getting beat up because he supports Trump.

Of course the race angle is going to get play but that isn't what is going on. Now they are paying "protestors" all over the country to commit violence. Twitter is allowing the tag #assasinateTrump. Think about all of the people that got their accounts banned on twitter for "hate." Now this tag is common and widespread. No bannings.

This isn't about race or gender. This is about caste. There has been an effective caste system in every society in history until our country was founded. You were born and you generally lived your live in your station. Aristocracy is the common theme of history and the founders of this country took away almost all of the normal tools of the aristocrat to maintain their power and control. R&B mentioned the south and slavery and this was just another manifestation of humans setting up a system that maintained their power and control with a particularly odious method.

We just had another kicking over of the apple cart. The aristocrats had themselves set up pretty well. Whether it was a Bush or a Clinton or an Obama or a Romney they were winners and the peons out here were stuck under their thumb. I look forward to not just fixing this country, but justice as well.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Terry's doing his best to shove stupid-sounding words together.

Because he's a stupid person.

Who hates words. Nouns, verbs, adjectives. He hates them all. He doesn't know what they mean.

chickelit said...

Blogger Jon Ericson notes: "Hillary's-paid-internet-trolls-get-canned"

It would be nice if Shilho and Inga would now appear on their own dime just to prove that...they weren't paid Hillary shills.

Achilles said...

@Terry

Please don't use the word literally. I never works out and it drives me nuts when it is used wrong.

@R&B

Is there a point to denoting that the confederacy was Irish(catholic) and the north was Anglo(protestant)?

Not sure what your deal is about Torquemada. I brought him up because he represents the change from persecuting for belief (always a great thing) to persecuting for ancestry. That's important to history - and not just an odd fact.

A relevant fact. Especially given the resilience of people obsessed by what's in their "blood" - as my interlocutor above seemed to be


I like discussing the motivations to persecute. We all have this motivation to an extent and our methods of persecution differ. We all think our motivation to persecute is good and the people we persecute are bad of course.

I don't think people should be persecuted for blood or belief. Even if they were descendants of naughty people like Germans descended from Nazi's or Muslim women who believe ironically in Sharia law. I think people should be persecuted for being historical assholes at the time they were assholes.(not assholes like me; assholes like ante-bellum confederates that supported and profited from slavery)

At this moment that means people like George Soros who are paying people to riot and people like Hillary Clinton and her entire cadre of enablers and corruptocrats. There are a lot of people that tried to cement an aristocracy through bureaucratic malignancy and importation of compliant voters. I am ready for some good old fashioned persecution. Legally of course.

Saint Croix said...

Maybe the Trump administration can start giving report cards to universities.

Universities where the graduates pay back their student loans? A+

Universities where the graduates default on their student loans? F

And the Trump administration cuts off loans to the schools that are bad investments.

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