November 16, 2016

At the top of the NYT this morning: Fanciful maps depicting 2 Americas — a GOP-majority America as a landmass with lakes and seas in places that voted majority Democratic...

... and a Democratic-majority America that is a collection of big and small islands in the waters of GOP-voting places with names like Old Glacier Gulf, High Plains Sea, and Great American Ocean.

On the first map, I'm in Madison Lake, and in the second, I'm on an island they didn't bother to label with a name. Madison Island, I presume.

The text around these elaborate maps begins: "For many Americans, it feels as if the 2016 election split the country in two. To visualize this, we took the election results and created two new imaginary nations by slicing the country along the sharp divide between Republican and Democratic Americas."

Well, that's not how it feels in Madison. The 2016 election didn't do that to us. We've been proudly envisioning Madison as its own special island since at least 1978, when the Republican Lee S. Dreyfus,  running for governor, called Madison "30 square miles surrounded by reality.” Dreyfus, who won, didn't mean it as a compliment, but Madsonians loved the phrase, and in 2013, Madison Mayor Paul Soglin proposed it as the city's official motto — with a slight update —  "77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality."
“It’s a statement about who we are,” he said.

The decision will probably take a series of meetings, Soglin said, seemingly half joking and half serious.

“This is Madison.”
It almost became the official motto, failing in the City Council by a vote of 10-9. Some people thought it might be perceived as an insult, but Soglin and many others thought it was quite positive in a self-deprecating, hip way.

In January 2015, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker used the familiar Wisconsin phrase in a jab at Washington DC:
"For a lot of folks here in our nation's capital in Washington it's kind of a dome.... In fact, I like to call it 68 square miles surrounded by reality.... What I see in the states and from people in this country outside of Washington is a craving for something new, something fresh, something dynamic, instead of the top-down, government-knows-best approach that we’ve seen in Washington."
I don't think Walker was imagining Trump as the way the people would satisfy that craving for "something fresh, something dynamic," but you can see in Walker's words a description of "this country" that corresponds to the NYT's first map, the one with 80% of the landmass. We here in Madison had long taken ourselves out of that mass. We were happy and willing to locate ourselves outside of reality. The NYT can portray us as a big lake, but that would never be our self-image, because we are a city of full of lakes. We saw ourselves as not even here at all, unreal.

That's what I've lived around for the last 3 decades. But, you know, there were still 23% of us in this county (Dane County) who voted for Donald Trump. And I bet there are few counties that were more skewed than that. So lefties and righties do live together. You have to choose to want to think of America as 2 countries. You can choose unreal if it suits your post-election freakout needs. It's a free country. A country called the United States.

86 comments:

Ignorance is Bliss said...

It's a free country

Thank you, electoral college.

Anglelyne said...

NYT maps - nice visual. Trump taiga and Clinton archipelago.

Laslo Spatula said...

My computer and browser are so decrepit the (I'm assuming) illustrations don't load, so I just see an array of city names against a field of white.

America covered in snow and ice after epic Global Cooling.

I am Laslo.

Curious George said...

First things first. How many actual square miles is Madison?

Curious George said...

Madison Mayor Paul Soglin proposed it as the city's official motto — with a slight update — "77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality. “It’s a statement about who we are,” he said."

That's the weed talking.

Sydney said...

Trump's America looks more united that Clinton's America. People in Clinton's America have to transverse huge areas of scary, hostile territory to visit each other.

AprilApple said...

Goes to the eternal truth that if we get rid of the Electoral College - New York, Illinois and California will select the president, & the rest of the nation can pound sand. This is why leftists are trying, for the 701st time, to trash the constitution and the Electoral College.

Of course, if the EC ever came in handy for leftists again, they'd want it back.

Rae said...

It is a pretty illustration, especially if you like maps.

Gabriel said...

Secession movements: descending on the Right, landing on the Left.

Didn't we do this in 2004, with the United States of Canada and Jesusland?

bagoh20 said...

The Clinton map shows the areas where the living will starve and the zombies will feast. Darwin's remedy will rule the apocalypse.

traditionalguy said...

Drain The Lakes. Or Build The Wall around them too.

grackle said...

Speaking of maps … an election map by counties is at the URL below:

http://tinyurl.com/hujnk3b

Let’s rev up our imaginations and look at the map closely. Imagine America as a loosely aligned collection of blue feudal city-states amid a red sea of peasant-held hinterlands. Would that map look any different than this map? Think about that for a minute or two.

David Begley said...

Welcome to reality Madison. Trump wins and then you get whacked by the lowly Creighton Bluejays from Omaha. Creighton!

bagoh20 said...

"Of course, if the EC ever came in handy for leftists again, they'd want it back."

Nobody ignores unintended consequences quite like leftists. If they want it, that's a pretty good signal it will backfire.

Skipper said...

23% for Trump? Shocking.

tcrosse said...

Are the blue areas rich because they're Progressive, i.e. smarter than the rest of us, or Progressive because they're rich ? It might be argued that Progressivism is a luxury good than only the rich can afford.

Laslo Spatula said...

I blame the calcified divisions on the End of The Old West.

When there was still ungoverned land to be found there was a release found in going West.

A man could make a home in the beginnings of a town, where Law had not grown suffocating around him.

As the Town got bigger and the New Arrivals demanded more Safety the Laws would encroach -- and then it was to the West for the next beginning.

Eventually such a man would make it to the West Coast, where there was no where left to go. The New Arrivals eventually came, bringing their Excesses of Laws, until the Old West was strangled.

So we are left with only Outposts that haven't been overrun by the New Arrivals, who hate John Wayne.

Fucking John Wayne haters.

I am Laslo.

Bob Boyd said...

On the Trump's America map Oklahoma is the only state without a body of water....or a tumor if you looked at the image as an MRI.

rhhardin said...

It's united on the rules. Lacking that, it's no longer American.

boycat said...

Yeah but Clinton's vote totals are cooked numbers because of fraudulent votes. And she probably did not win the popular vote once these adjustments are made. So we don't know what the picture ought to be.

lgv said...

The Wisconsin map isn't dissimilar to other red states. Texas is mostly red, but boldly blue around the Peoples Republic of Austin and the border. Same with Little Rock and the rest of AR. Same with Michigan, Ohio, Minnesota.

David said...

How cute. They are all lakes, bays, coves, etc. Those are fancy names for swamps. (Sorry. "Wetlands.")

bagoh20 said...

What is the lefty strip along the lower Mississippi? Is that where all the refugees from Katrina washed up?

lemondog said...

When did the red/blue states come into being? Wiki says 2000 when colors were reversed.

What would a similar NYT Bill Clinton, 2nd Bush, Obama map look like?

The NYT is agitating for a divided America.

traditionalguy said...

Oh yeah. The Blue areas are the Red Diaper babies home. The Red areas are the true blue people's home. Confusion uber alles.

alan markus said...

Yeah but Clinton's vote totals are cooked numbers because of fraudulent votes. And she probably did not win the popular vote once these adjustments are made. So we don't know what the picture ought to be.

I have noticed the movement to get the Electoral College electors to change their votes to Clinton does not seem to be getting much traction from Dems higher up in the food chain. It's almost like "let's not go there", if it would result in a fisking of voter records to see if there were fraudulent votes. It's as if they (Dems) want to keep that Ace in the pocket for future elections. That interactive map in the earlier post where you could adjust different demographics was lacking - it should have had a category of illegal immigrants voting - assume more of them and slide to the blue, and Dem chances increase. Assume less and slide to the red, and Rep chances increase.

Freder Frederson said...

Yeah but Clinton's vote totals are cooked numbers because of fraudulent votes.

You have absolutely no proof of this. You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

"23% of us" - Althouse has let it slip. In Cambridge, Massachusetts it was 89.2% to 6.5%.

David Begley said...

Freder

If the states gives an illegal alien a driver's license, then the federal Motor Voter Act guarantees voter fraud. Just check a box that you are a citizen and you are registered. Use your head man!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Bagoh20 said The Clinton map shows the areas where the living will starve and the zombies will feast. Darwin's remedy will rule the apocalypse.

That was my take on the maps as well. Trump country is where the food comes from. Where the raw materials that are used in manufacturing are located. Where the water originates (in California at least). Without Trump Country, the blue areas will starve, dehydrate and whither away. Manufacturing can be moved. Agricultural land, forests, mines and water sources cannot.

People shouldn't denigrate the hand that feeds them. Without us in flyover country you all will starve. Attrition may be a good thing :-)

Larry J said...

Sydney said...
Trump's America looks more united that Clinton's America. People in Clinton's America have to transverse huge areas of scary, hostile territory to visit each other.


If you invert the map so that Democrat areas are land and Republican areas are water, you get a map similar to how the ancient Polynesians viewed the world. To them, the world was water with specks of land here and there. Being brave and great navigators, the ancient Polynesians spread their culture and population across the vast Pacific Ocean. I doubt today's Democrats would be that brave. To them, all of that water would be terrifying. Better to huddle down on your little island, waiting for the next boatload of supplies that they need to keep them alive arrives. They wouldn't lower themselves to actually working to feed, clothe, or house themselves. That kind of work is beneath them and might get their hands dirty.

coupe said...

It's a cute map. The cartographer has a good sense of humor.

Humor is good. The good humor is then exploited with incongruous words from the unwashed in the bowels of the organization.

Freder Frederson said...

If the states gives an illegal alien a driver's license, then the federal Motor Voter Act guarantees voter fraud. Just check a box that you are a citizen and you are registered. Use your head man!

Just because it is easy to falsely claim U.S. citizenship does not mean that 2 million or whatever the number you and Rush have pulled out of your ass are actually fraudulently registering or voting. The penalties are severe, deportation and a lifetime ban on reentry.

Mike Sylwester said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike said...

There is no such thing as absolute purity in nature or among people. The "Two Americas" bullshit is more mental disease than reality. The more you live within your own head and not in the world at large, the more likely you are to believe such stupidity. All the minorities who increased their votes for the Republican this time laugh at your stupid monoculture and inability to see what the real message of this election was.

Michael K said...

"You have absolutely no proof of this. "

Freder, the Democrats have done a pretty good job of hiding this but I suspect the Voter ID issue will come up pretty firmly in the next Congress. Motor Voter also needs to go away.

There is proof of some illegals voting but the large numbers are pretty well hidden. That may not last. Just like the precincts in Philadelphia in 2012 that had 120% of registered voters cast ballots.

Mike Sylwester said...

Freder Frederson at 8:22 AM

You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.

I hope that the Trump Administration will study the issue of fraudulent voting and publish the results.

Christopher B said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
whswhs said...

Marin County went 92% for Clinton, I believe.

Christopher B said...

Alan, I noticed that too, though recently there have been a few more Democrats raising the idea of ditching the EC (unlikely that movement will make any headway). I think unlike 2000, when there was speculation that Gore could win the EC but lose the popular vote, the current circumstances caught the Democrats a bit flat footed. Also unlike 2000 Hillary would have had to flip multiple states (at least MI and PA) unlike Gore who needed to only reverse FL.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

Just because it is easy to falsely claim U.S. citizenship does not mean that 2 million or whatever the number you and Rush have pulled out of your ass are actually fraudulently registering or voting.

California automatically registers you to vote when you get a DL. You don't need to be a citizen to get a DL. You don't have to falsely claim citizenship. You just pass GO and get a DL. Ergo all illegal aliens who have DLs in California are registered to vote.

Does this mean that all will vote. Not all, but certainly a large amount will. You are not asked for ID when you vote, that would be somehow something bad......so all an illegal alien has to do is get a DL and then go vote. No questions asked.

Even ONE person voting illegally is a crime and a disenfranchisement of the legal voter whose vote has been wiped out by a non citizen. Some elections are lost by just a few thousand votes. If those votes are by illegals, then it is no wonder that people, LEGAL citizens have determined that the elections are fraudulent.

When elections mean so much and are so 'tight' the few thousand votes by ILLEGAL aliens is not just a deliberate crime, it is something that we must change. If not our system is irretrievably broken and there is no point in being a citizen and more importantly there is no point in obeying ANY of the laws, when only some people are held to account and others can break the laws with impunity.

Dangerous situation. I don't think you want to see the end results of this.

Mike said...

Freder Frederson: Yeah but Clinton's vote totals are cooked numbers because of fraudulent votes.

You have absolutely no proof of this. You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.


There's all kinds of evidence of voter fraud but there are so many like you who shout "No it's not" and lie about the dead people voting and the multiple precinct voters, and the "piles of ballots" trick they use in WA and MN to "help" progressives. Ah, but that is evidence you conveniently ignore.

YOU should stop spreading all the marxist rumors and myth-making that is the lifeblood of the vast alt-left conspiracy who runs the media and academia and the DNC. You know, like the non-voting idiots running the streets now screaming "racist" about a guy who is no such thing. The list of lies the left keeps alive with, to use your phrase, absolutely no proof, is unending. Why, pick up the NYT and WP today and see what fake stories they are generating.

Eric said...

Trump's America looks like America. Clinton's America looks like a disparate set of targeted groups. I'd call that a very revealing mapping.

mishu said...

Looks like Clinton's America suffered worse effects from global warming. America made the right choice.

Mike said...

The penalties are severe, deportation and a lifetime ban on reentry.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Tell that to "B1 Bob" Dornan who lost in CA in 1996 (I think it was '96) precisely because of 100,000 or so illegal aliens voting in Santa Ana, CA. The trouble with this is we can only document if well after the fact because in CA you can't ascertain citizenship or ask for ID at the polls. No one pays the price for illegals voting and you know it, but you lie about it because those aliens help your side win, and that;s just fine because winning is the only thing with leftists.

mikee said...

Althouse, your vision of national unity despite political differences is fine with me.
The Democrats may have some problem accepting it, however.

Birkel said...

Freder Frederson said...
"... The penalties are severe, deportation and a lifetime ban on reentry."

So you're asking us to believe that this deportation will happen? I was pretty sure we could not deport people to break up homes.

And you're asking us to believe people who illegally entered the country once will be prevented from doing so again by yet another law?

Freder Frederson: Every night he falls off the turnip truck and expects everybody else did too.

Freder Frederson said...

California automatically registers you to vote when you get a DL.

Liar


There's all kinds of evidence of voter fraud but there are so many like you who shout "No it's not" and lie about the dead people voting and the multiple precinct voters, and the "piles of ballots" trick they use in WA and MN to "help" progressives. Ah, but that is evidence you conveniently ignore

Citation please.

David Begley said...

FF

I have no idea if your allegations on penalties are correct, but if there is no enforcement then the statutory language is worthless. That's what a lawless society looks like.

viator said...

Ithaca, N.Y. - 15 Square Miles Surrounded By Reality

viator said...

Donald Trump won 80% of all the counties in the U.S.

Jason said...

To be a Democrat you have to be dumb enough to believe that the DNC and their local operatives are corrupt enough to rig their own primary against a fellow Democrat beloved by a big chunk of their party, but they'd totes never try to rig a general election against a Republican, no sirree-Bob.

campy said...

The Clinton map shows the areas where the living will starve and the zombies will feast.

Don't zombies prefer to eat brains?

bagoh20 said...

It seems to me the EC worked exactly as it was supposed to. It gave less populous states a fair voice, and muted some of the power of a centralized majority with a single confiscatory mindset. Without the EC, the breadbasket of the U.S. would just be a giant Democrat owned plantation. They still have a strong affinity for the system of the old south.

The ideological divisions between these areas is pretty simple and clear for me.

The Left wants to control your means of production, your language, your wealth, your thinking - no exceptions.
The Right wants to be left alone.
The Right will leave the left alone if it doesn't try to take control others and respects property and other individual rights.
The left has no conditions under which they will leave you alone. The cow must be fenced in and milked, period.
That's why they live in tightly packed cities, so they can keep an eye on each other.

FleetUSA said...

"23% of US" hmmmmm.....

buwaya puti said...

Freder -
You get to check off a box on the CA DMV DL/ID form to register.
It is SUPPOSED to be checked later, somehow, by the CA SoS.
But that part is a joke, because there is no way to do so.
There is no central registry of US citizens held by the US or the State of CA.

Mike said...

FF google "Gregoire" and "Stuart Smalley" for multiple examples of the "boxes of ballots" method the DNC uses. Your a lying weasle and anyone who follows you link above will see that DMV in CA automatically forwards ALL license applications to the Stae for voter reg unless the applicant "opts out" and the "verify citizenship" part is a joke. We don't do that. We just send 'em ballots.

Almaron Dickinson said...

Speaking of islands and “two Americas” - - -

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

John Donne, 1624

Mike said...

I'm connected to the ag and landscape industries here in CA too. I've talked to hundreds if not thousands of illegal aliens here and in WA and OR. They do vote. Anecdotes are not data, the saying goes, but I believe them. And it is documented. That's the Loretta Sanchez story. Look it up. I ain't spoon feeding you here.

Mike Sylwester said...

Trump should use the Federal Government's research resources to study the issue of illegal voting by non-citizens and felons. Study voting lists thoroughly and count the instances of illegal votes. Publish the results.

Also legally punish the violators who are discovered.

Trump has become President, and he should use his Federal Governmnent to study -- probably for the first time in US history -- the issue of fraudulent voting.

SDN said...

Sucks to be Freder: just think how many didn't get caught.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/voter-fraud-california-man-finds-dozens-ballots-stacked-outside-home.html

The 83 ballots, each unused, were addressed to different people, all supposedly living in his elderly neighbor’s two-bedroom apartment.

“I think this is spooky,” Mosna said. “All the different names, none we recognize, all at one address.”

His wife, Madalena Mosna, noted their 89-year-old neighbor lives by herself, and, “Eighty people can’t fit in that apartment.”

JAORE said...

"...stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit..."

Yeah! Dangerous and divisive bullshit is a tactic exclusively reserved for the left, and don't you forget it!

Ipso Fatso said...

What is interesting to me is that 39% of my fellow Chicagoans voted for Trump. What is this world coming to? (:

Unknown said...

Just as a note, my county voted only 10% for HIllary. Trump didn't get the other 90% due to third party, but Hillary was soundly rejected.

And my county includes a junior college as a major player; so all those youths that supposedly vote Democrat in lockstep.

Except our kids actually have brains, so they don't fall for that nonsense.

--Vance

Freder Frederson said...

There is no central registry of US citizens held by the US or the State of CA.

Bullshit. Social Security tracks citizenship. How else could SS exclude non-citzens living abroad from being eligible for social security. (my sister in law became a U.S. citizen only because she plans to move back to the UK when she retires and wants to collect U.S. Social Security in the UK.)

grackle said...

Are the blue areas rich because they're Progressive, i.e. smarter than the rest of us, or Progressive because they're rich ?

The elites control vast plantations. Some are ethnic and racially oriented. There’s one for African Americans, another of Hispanics, a smallish one of Jews. There’s other plantations for entertainers, the MSM, technocrats, academia and the intelligentsia.

No one is allowed off these plantations under penalty of public vilification and the systematic denial of all the privileges controlled by the elite.

The elite, its overseers and toadies endeavor to rule from their strongholds in the city-states. And have for many years. They are richer. They can usually dictate the rules for the peasants and are comfortably insulated from the harm their thoughtless edicts cause to the folks in flyover country. They no longer see themselves as Americans but rather owe political and cultural fidelity to a worldwide elite class and have nothing but contempt for the peasants. They seek to stamp out patriotism in all its forms because patriotism threatens their globalist machinations and plans and serves to neutralize the regional power of the city-states.

But insulation almost invariably leads to isolation and isolation usually leads to a separation from reality and the creation of protective bubbles. Reality is a beast best pacified by constant familiarity and nearness. Ignoring the beast can be fatal. Beasts can burst through cozy bubbles.

Right now there is a beast-created champion laying waste to the elites and their fear and the resulting hysteria is rampant among their foul ranks. Their usual weapons and secret underhanded maneuvers do not kill this challenger. This hero has destroyed several elite defenders sent against him and has won the field. There are other champions threatening their European counterparts.

Also alarming: Some of the serfs are going off the plantations and joining the champion.

Gabriel said...

@Freder Frederson: Social Security tracks citizenship.

False. Non-citizens draw Social Security. According to ssa.gov, to apply for Social Security you need

Proof of U.S. citizenship or lawful alien status

Michael said...

Madison = Brigadoon

Gabriel said...

@Freder: Lawful aliens eligible for Social Security:

Individuals are considered to have lawful alien status if they are lawfully in the US under one of the following conditions:

Individual was granted admission as a refugee or conditional entrance as a refugee;
Individual was granted asylum status or has a pending application for political asylum;
Individual is temporarily visiting on a non-immigrant visa;
Individual has achieved parole status;
Individual has had deportation withheld or has a pending application for withholding of deportation;
Individual has been granted permission to remain in the US for humanitarian reasons; or
Individual has been abused or subject to the cruelty of a family member while residing in the US.

Gabriel said...

@Freder: If Social Security tracked citizenship or lawful alien status, they would not need anyone to submit proof of it. You would simply have to prove identity.

Your ideas about how the laws actually work are simply false.

buwaya puti said...

I am not a US citizen, but I will be collecting Social Security. I have received SS statements concerning my projected payouts and survivors benefits, etc. SS is most definitely not tracking citizen status, merely legal residency, and not even that really.

buwaya puti said...

If I were to retire in Spain, still not a US citizen, I would be collecting the SS benefits I paid in for, just like a US citizen. I checked this out specifically.

Gabriel said...

So, to sum Freder:

SSA, despite what you thought, does not track citizenship, does not limit SS benefits to citizens, and does not deprive people living abroad of SS benefits.

Probability that any of these facts will change your mind about anything: 0

Achilles said...

That's what I've lived around for the last 3 decades. But, you know, there were still 23% of us in this county (Dane County) who voted for Donald Trump. And I bet there are few counties that were more skewed than that.

Hillary won DC 93 to 4.

That pretty much sums up how corruption and graft are viewed there.

Achilles said...

Freder Frederson said...
There is no central registry of US citizens held by the US or the State of CA.

Bullshit.

You should have prefaced that with "I am full of " and stopped there.

Achilles said...

Freder Frederson said...

You have absolutely no proof of this. You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.

You know why leftists are going nuts? Because we are about to find out. Kris Kobach is a front runner for AG. Now he is a racist sexist homophobe of course.

I would take cleaning up voter roles and truly enforcing immigration law over throwing Hillary in jail. If we stop letting California and New York stuff illegal voters into the booth the democrat party will be even more dead than it already is. Hillary's failure has cost a lot of people a lot of money and power.

January 20th is going to be the Alpha and the Omega.

buwaya puti said...

To add, I am apparently still in the San Francisco voter rolls, because I keep getting jury duty notices, to which I have to respond by asserting I am not a citizen.
Also I note we keep getting these for a previous owner of our house. The local voter rolls are off by at least 22 years it seems.
California civil records are massively screwed up.

Rick said...

Freder Frederson said...
You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.


It's so cute when left wingers pretend to care about divisiveness. It's like watching children play house: heartwarming.

protestmanager said...

Freder Frederson said...

You have absolutely no proof of this. You and Ann (because she cited Rush for raising the possibility) should stop spreading this dangerous and divisive bullshit unless you can provide some very solid evidence that it is true.


Good point, Fred. So, you willing to help us look?

Simple plan:
1: Every single voter registration in America is cancelled
2: "Motor Voter" is replaced with a law requiring that all voter registrations must be done in person, with proof of US citizenship
3: Come October 2018, we take a look at the current and new voter rolls, and add up how many "people" who voted in 2016 haven't bothered to register for 2018.

That's your soft upper bound for vote fraud in the US. CAre to guess how high it is?

lemondog said...

American Immigration Center:

Illegal Immigration in California

Fabi said...

It's always safe to assume that when a prog like Freder comes unglued and starts calling bullshit and naming people as liars, then he's simply protesting too loudly about being caught in his own lies and bullshit. It never fails.

Matthew Sablan said...

"2: "Motor Voter" is replaced with a law requiring that all voter registrations must be done in person, with proof of US citizenship"

-- I am only OK with this if we VASTLY increase the places one can register to vote. Post Offices and Court Houses seem to me like natural extensions to the DMV.

DavidD said...

Trump's America looks like the moths ate it.

protestmanager said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"2: "Motor Voter" is replaced with a law requiring that all voter registrations must be done in person, with proof of US citizenship"

-- I am only OK with this if we VASTLY increase the places one can register to vote. Post Offices and Court Houses seem to me like natural extensions to the DMV.


No to being able to register at the DMV. If you're not willing to make a minimal effort to register to vote, you shouldn't get registered.

I'll take "any place you can get a passport, you can register to vote", because those places already have to be able to determine if you're a US Citizen.

Oh, and no "Same Day voter registration."

Jon Ericson said...

“It’s a statement about who we are,” he said.
Drink.