October 3, 2016

"Women have one of the great acts of all time. The smart ones act very feminine and needy, but inside they are real killers."

"The person who came up with the expression 'the weaker sex' was either very naive or had to be kidding. I have seen women manipulate men with just a twitch of their eye -- or perhaps another body part."

Wrote Donald Trump in "The Art of the Comeback" (1997). Quoted in "Donald Trump's trouble with women -- an incomplete list" (at CNN). I got there via "Donald Trump doubles down on fat-shaming. It’s unpresidential and medically harmful," by Dr. Jen Gunter, who writes: "He showed he is a man who truly believes the value of a women lies in some superficial attribute that he alone is fit to judge."

I got to Gunter via the journalist Jonathan Cohn, who links to it at Facebook, where he comments "Trump has a long history of fat-shaming, way beyond what he said about Alicia Machado." And you can see that my son John comments there: "Too bad the one link to the 'science' this post is based on doesn't work."

John is right about that. Gunter puts a link on "Science tells us that being labeled 'too fat' can cast the curse of a body image disorder upon girls and young women." It's a dead link, going to an "Oops!" page within Gunter's own site.

Isn't it funny that Gunter has "science" speaking to us in terms of "casting" a "curse." Sounds more like witchcraft!

66 comments:

rhhardin said...

Feminine and needy invites the male to be strong and protective, an obligation the guy makes himself out of.

The inner killer is against other women, not men. Cat fights are forever.

EMD said...

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm fucking exhausted. And it's only October 3.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I tried to read the article, but if your mom telling you you're too fat to wear a dress sends you into a spiral of shame then:

1) You are a dumbass
2) You have other, more fundamental emotional issues that you are trying to avoid facing

Brando said...

If women think they're too fat, it's not because men (at least heterosexual men) are telling them that. Heterosexual men will be attracted to anything. Just look at ribald photos from a hundred years ago.

MadisonMan said...

or perhaps another body part

Like their shoulders.

I know seen very few men tell women they are fat. I have seen many many women tell other women that they are fat.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I'm guessing that Donald Trump's experience with manipulative women is greater than mine by several orders of magnitude.

traditionalguy said...

Once more The Donald reverts to his Momma's Calvinist work ethic. Exercise and self discipline in eating are totally available to all who will chose to work, achieve and keep the fruits of their labor.

The disabled and crippled will always be there be taken care of when they want our help and kindness. But the Hillary campaign is using Machado to send the message that all women must be bitter self pitying victims.

AprilApple said...

This election really is Idiocracy Vs. Kleptocracy.

Terry said...

When the media types bring this stuff up, it only serves to remind people that Bill and Hillary have done far more to disrespect and hurt women than Trump has ever done.

rhhardin said...

The son accuses the father of being fat, but the best stanza is

“In my youth,” said his father, “I took to the law,
And argued each case with my wife;
And the muscular strength, which it gave to my jaw,
Has lasted the rest of my life.”

DrMaturin said...

Can someone explain to me what exactly is wrong with fat shaming? Obesity leads to any number of health problems, such as hypertension, diabetes and arthritis. As a pathologist I've been confronted by the medical consequences of this my entire career. If shaming causes people to do something about being overweight then so much the better. And don't tell me it turns people into anorexics. This country does not suffer from an epidemic of excessive thinness.

On a personal note I was fat my entire childhood and was deeply ashamed. As a consequence when I turned 20 I decided to do something about it and am now an extremely fit adult. So shame worked for me.

AprilApple said...

American's are obese. Michelle Obama's #1 priority is to help Americans, specially children, slim down.

A clever person could use this information.

rhhardin said...

The idiocracy is the media audience; defeating the gatekeepers is the reason to vote Trump.

If he can keep it up.

AprilApple said...

Trump should fact-shame the media.

The media have nothing to say about Clinton lies and corruption and family foundation money grubbing and speaking fees from large banks.

David Begley said...

Couldn't all men and women stand to lose 11% of their weight? I know I could.

Laslo Spatula said...

It's sad that Karen Carpenter died when she was SO close to her ideal weight.

I am The Replacement Laslo.

Jupiter said...

AprilApple said...
"American's are obese. Michelle Obama's #1 priority is to help Americans, specially children, slim down."

You think? Are you sure Michelle Obama's #1 priority isn't thinking of some even more expensive place she and her entourage can jet off to, as part of her plan to personally collect reparations from America for every slave who ever crossed the Atlantic?

Comanche Voter said...

Dr. Gunter doesn't get out much.

AprilApple said...

Jupiter - The secret priories of elite politicians on the left are big money, wealth confiscation for Castro-like amenities, comfort and splendor.

The topic here is fat shaming and obesity.

dbp said...

Whenever I read something like ""Science tells us...", my first assumption is that the author has no idea how the scientific method works.

Mike Sylwester said...

When only men were the Presidential candidates, they never debated about fat-shaming.

Mike said...

Given his long association with beauty pageants, I wonder how many of Trump's comments about women were in that context. Is there a pageant exception to talking about women that way? There seem to be whole cable channels, such as E!, devoted to (alternately) fat shaming Hollywood stars or praising their body/fashion/style. If we take all those red carpet reporters out of context and blare their criticisms out over Twitter, how do they compare to what Trump did?

We'll never know. Media collectively avoid doing any reporting that contextualizes Trump nor that which exposes Hillary. We see the lie of the green.

AprilApple said...

Trump should say this:

"While the DNC hack press are fat shaming me, for past statements that do not have anything to do with America circa now, I would like to fact-shame the media. Shame on the media for acting as a extension to the Corrupt Clinton Machine."

AprilApple said...

Is this really anything new? The DNC hack press will find ANYTHING they can use to "shame" the not-(D) candidate.

MayBee said...

I was recently looking at pictures from high school. I was a cheerleader, and one of my best friends was also a cheerleader, very popular, but she was always the fat cheerleader. Looking at the pictures now....she was barely even chubby by today's standards. She was really just on the thicker side of normal. Fat kids are just so much fatter these days than they used to be. OTOH, it doesn't seem like the weight gain is evenly distributed among the socioeconomic groups.

But back to high school me....when I felt fat, it didn't come from any man. It came from fashion magazines. One thing that had a huge negative impact on me was an Esprit catalogue with a little editorial about how you might be feeling down because you've found you need to wear a size 8 instead of a size 6. Talk about fat shaming!! THat's like.....normal weight shaming. The owner of Esprit, Susie Tompkins, is now besties with Hillary Clinton.

MayBee said...

I'm not sure I like this implication that women are so fragile we'll develop an eating disorder if someone simply calls us fat.
Does that happen to men, too? Or are they made of sturdier stuff?*




*I suspect it is way more complex than we are pretending so we can use this argument for political purposes

YoungHegelian said...

Dr. Jen Gunter, ....writes: "He showed he is a man who truly believes the value of a women lies in some superficial attribute that he alone is fit to judge."

Is she talking about JFK, Ted Kennedy, or Bill Clinton here? I'm confused.

AprilApple said...

I'm trying so hard to spin this for Trump.

The problem is that Trump has major baggage and he's a poor public speaker. He isn't fighting hard enough. He doesn't prepare for debates. This is killing him in the polls.

This is why I knew it would be a disaster to nominate him. He is going to hand it to the most corrupt person to ever seek the office.

(How badly do you have to suck to be losing to Hillary?)

EDH said...

The new, ubiquitous pejorative: "doubling down".

Whatever happened to "stands behind" or "insists" or "consistently states"?

Doubling down connotes taking an increased -- yet a notably fixed, predetermined -- risk in the deck of cards in order to double the potential reward.

What's inadvertently apt about Trump critics using this term is that most of these media commentators are trying to increase the prob-value of that risk after the cards have already been dealt through their coverage and spin.

In other words, it's appropriate to say the media is busy "stacking the deck" if you are going to use the term "doubling down".

SGT Ted said...

War on wimmens bullshit tag needed here.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Isn't obesity a national epidemic? Why, yes, yes, I believe it is.

Trump: lowering your health care costs, one fat chick at a time.

mockturtle said...

Women who wanted to be treated equally to men whimper at every slight, real or imagined, and then wonder whey they are not.

Temujin said...

Just the phrase 'fat-shaming' makes my eyes roll back involuntarily. How did an entire encyclopedia of bogus classroom think become part of the mainstream? Or...maybe it's not really mainstream society, just mainstream University and Newsroom?

Anyway- it's all utterly distressing and exhausting. I think I'll just wish Zir well and go sit in the men's stall of the women's restroom. Just totally fucking exhausted with this bullshit.

Clayton Hennesey said...

I would bet good money there's a tremendous amount of crocodile tearage being shed here on the left. In my experience, women love having significantly overweight friends in their posses for the same reason men do the same with low energy sorts - it reliably reduces the competition.

So while the lefty women are more than happy to use Ms. Machado against Trump, privately they'll still fall over one another keeping her in cheeseburgers and banana splits. Because, you see, no woman not named themselves should ever be ashamed of being fat.

traditionalguy said...

The terrible Trump just promised to win the cyber- security war. He wants to go on the offense.

War is now computer v. Computer more than we are allowed to know about.

Meanwhile Hillary wants to re-fight the Great 1990s simpler times.

Clayton Hennesey said...

How did an entire encyclopedia of bogus classroom think become part of the mainstream?

Before wandering off into somewhere else, Peggy Noonan addressed this sort of thing in a column referencing Nicholas Carr's The Shallows.

Michael said...

We're not talking about "a woman." We're talking about "a Miss America" who signed a contract. You may despise the whole idea of Miss America, but it you are going to be one you should honor your agreements.

mockturtle said...

The scariest thing said at the debate was Hillary saying she wants to rely on Silicon Valley to handle our cyber-security. Fox? Hen-house?

Oso Negro said...

Fat shaming is at least the moral equivalent of leaving our guys to die unnecessarily at Benghazi.

Roughcoat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roughcoat said...

Is this an example of the "war between the sexes" or are we now supposed to call it the "war between the genders"?

Birches said...

Jen Gunter was one of the doctors telling the media that PP was no big deal when they were being"reimbursed" extravagant amounts of money for fetus parts. And now she's being trotted out for this? She's being paid by a PR firm; it seems obvious now.

buwaya puti said...

Ahem, do you all still doubt me about the media machine?
This is Pravda-ministry of propaganda stuff, coordinated and centrally directed.
Your paradigm is wrong, these arent independent editorial/journalistic decisions.

Roughcoat said...

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm fucking exhausted. And it's only October 3.

Amen to that, brother.

AprilApple said...

Instead of talking about real issues, and Hillary's' corruption - we are mired in BS.
Never nominate someone with this much baggage and no skill to deal with it.

This is why Trump is a disaster. No - Trump would probably make a fine president, or even an average president. Hillary will bake her corruption in the government cake, and we will be stuck with it for decades.

Roughcoat said...

Trump is Sauron, Hillary is Morgoth. You decide which is worse.

rhhardin said...

The problem is that Trump has major baggage and he's a poor public speaker. He isn't fighting hard enough. He doesn't prepare for debates. This is killing him in the polls.

Making sense and great speaking isn't going to win with the gatekeepers and their audience.

Throwing sand in their gears might, so that the gatekeeping machine isn't working any longer.

I don't know what the major baggage is, beyond not being PC, and being PC is the problem in the first place. Those are his supporters.

Richard Epstein would be a great making-sense good-public-speaking guy but is defenseless against the gatekeepers. A libertarian who makes sense of the Constitution in such a way as to give reasons for why it's the way it is.

Roughcoat said...

Check that. Hillary is Shelob.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Roughcoat said...

Is this an example of the "war between the sexes" or are we now supposed to call it the "war between the genders"?

Your choice of the word between implies only two sexes/genders. The bus will arrive shortly to take you to the re-education camp. I would recommend, for your own sake, that you try to be a happy camper.

jr565 said...

there was a perfectly valid reason to "Fat shame" her. She had a clause in her contract that said she cant get fat. SHe is representing Ms Universe. How would it look if ms universe was a big fat fatty?

If its in the contract, Trump can hold her accountable for her weight. And fat shaming wasn't a "Thing" 20 years ago. Since when did women get so sensitive about their physical attributes to the point where its still an issue 20 years later.
Ohhhh, Trump called me fat 20 years ago!
I have to ask....so?

jr565 said...

(cont) by the way, he may have called her ms piggy but he also said something to the effect of "Some people eat when in stressful situations and put on weight. People like Machado. AND ME" So he was basically saying HE himself had this same problem. And therefore he is calling himself a big fat fatty.
The difference is, he's not Ms Universe, and there isn't a weight clause. IF she wants to get fat on her own time, I'm sure Trump doesn't care. But she's taking a job that has requirements.

jr565 said...

Maybee wrote:
I'm not sure I like this implication that women are so fragile we'll develop an eating disorder if someone simply calls us fat.
Does that happen to men, too? Or are they made of sturdier stuff?*

That truly seems to be what the feminists are saying. WOrds are SO powerful, that someone telling you you are fat, will devastate your ego to the point that you develop psychological conditions?
How frail are women?

Joe said...

There are far more psychotic women than psychotic men.

My oldest daughter's version: All women are bitches.

Mac McConnell said...

Dr. Jen Gunter believes fat girls (and Boys) are blind and/or don't own mirrors.

damikesc said...

He showed he is a man who truly believes the value of a women lies in some superficial attribute that he alone is fit to judge.

She won a BEUATY PAGEANT. HER value was in her looks. She didn't win a "What a Great Woman" pageant. If you're going to make money off your body, don't expect others to not notice. I used to rip apart the Maxim Hot 100 every year elsewhere. I'm not hot --- but I don't hold myself up to be hot. But when a publication lists Michelle Obama as one of the 100 hottest women on Earth, then mockery is deserved.

But back to high school me....when I felt fat, it didn't come from any man. It came from fashion magazines. One thing that had a huge negative impact on me was an Esprit catalogue with a little editorial about how you might be feeling down because you've found you need to wear a size 8 instead of a size 6. Talk about fat shaming!! THat's like.....normal weight shaming. The owner of Esprit, Susie Tompkins, is now besties with Hillary Clinton.

I've discussed this with my wife. Men's magazines don't have beanpoles on the cover. They have women with curves because men, generally, like women with curves.

Women seem to be the ones hung up on a woman looking like an ironing board and being a size -1.

Look like a model in a men's magazine and you're WAY more likely to actually be healthy than if you're a model in a women's magazine.

there was a perfectly valid reason to "Fat shame" her. She had a clause in her contract that said she cant get fat. SHe is representing Ms Universe. How would it look if ms universe was a big fat fatty?

Would they have been happier if he fired her for breaking her contract?

mockturtle said...

There are far more psychotic women than psychotic men.

Not so. Neurotic, maybe, but not psychotic. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1636807

DougWeber said...

This is why I am having a very hard time considering voting Democratic this year. The Democrats have made an art out of taking any statement or actions, wrapping it in innuendo, and releasing it with the expectation that the media will latch onto the worst possible interpretations and spread them wide. The NYTimes are especially guilty this week. The tax return they have was in their hands for a month, as I understand it. But they never mention that it might not be the final return or what the big figure might be about. They only mention that Trump MAY not have payed taxes for 18 years. As if that were some sin of such monumental proportion that the implication of it should be enough to destroy any political career.

buwaya said...

"The Democrats have made an art out of taking any statement or actions, wrapping it in innuendo, and releasing it with the expectation that the media will latch onto the worst possible interpretations and spread them wide. "

No, that's not how it works. The media is DIRECTED to do X,Y or Z in coordination and to a schedule. The Democratic party (the overt party) isn't even in charge. It is simply a component in a larger machine, a figurehead institution.

walter said...

The highlighted quotes here don't exhibit "trouble with women", they're spot on in enough cases. I know I've been stabbed in the back by a couple who came off all sugar and spice. I sometimes wonder if the practice of troweling on makeup etc helps establish a greater tendency towards contrived behavior.
Trump's just "keeping it real" here.

Mac McConnell said...

Most women size 6 is actually a old size 8, size inflation as a marketing tool. Men like the right proportions regardless of size and yes curves. Most men don't want to date a gal with the body of a junior high school boy.

Bill Peschel said...

Trump stands up to their bullshit. That's what is scaring the crap out of them.

As for advice not to play that game: The GOP could nominate Mr. Rogers and the press would find something wrong with that. That's how they play. After all, Romney and McCain didn't bite back. How'd that work out for them?

n.n said...

Abortionists. Whereas female (and male) chauvinists are Pro-Choice, women, as men, strive to reconcile moral, natural, and personal imperatives.

Respect the ladies (and gentlemen). Beware the chauvinists.

walter said...

Bill Peschel said...The GOP could nominate Mr. Rogers and the press would find something wrong with that.
--
I doubt having a daily visit by a "Mr. McFeely" would fly under the radar these days. Though maybe they'd Trans-form him into a SJW delivering injustice du jour.

mockturtle said...

I doubt having a daily visit by a "Mr. McFeely" would fly under the radar these days.

I've always wondered about the choice of names for a children's show character. McFeely? Really?

William Chadwick said...

Judging by the Gender Gap, women are generally the Socialist Sex as well. (Hey, just ask feminists such as Catherine McKinnon, who see it as evidence of Female Superiority.) You can't make a socialist omelet without breaking eggs, and in my experience, women tend to be more than willing to do that.

Paco Wové said...

"Instead of talking about real issues, and Hillary's' corruption - we are mired in BS."

The thing is, AA, that last time around, and the time before that, the R.'s did nominate Serious Candidates – and the elections were still mired in BS. The quantity of BS seems constant, regardless of the candidate.