October 9, 2016

Jake Tapper attempts a euphemism — and it's not "vulva."

So what Trump said was "And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

And Jake Tapper obviously didn't want to say "pussy":



If you're going to use the anatomical term to avoid the slang, use the scientifically correct term. "Vagina" for "vulva" is as much slang as "pussy." "Pussy" is at least a quote. "Vagina" is ridiculous.

No one was picturing grabbing a woman by the vagina. If we were, those of us who are saying that Trump was referring to sexual assault would be saying rape, not merely sexual assault.

IN THE COMMENTS: Meade said:
(CNN) Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday for barring all Muslims [who grope] from entering the United States.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of [groping] Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.
And: 
In the wake of the [Donald J. Trump groping] attacks, a prominent Muslim imam, Sami Abu-Yusuf, told reporters women were to blame because they “dress half naked and wear perfume.” The outrageous claim prompted [Democratic Party vice president candidate Tim Kaine] to file a criminal complaint against the cleric.

122 comments:

DCPI said...

So ... What someone says about women is worse than leaving a young, pretty and trusting woman in a car to drown? Was Ted asked to drop out of the 1980 presidential race? No, then we have a precedent on being presidential. I seem to remember our current president eulogizing at the funeral of the Lion of the Senate and Mr. Biden calling him a role model.

This election is lancing a boil of hypocrisy. And we do now know who is what. Give 'em the old razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle em.

Would love to see what Hill sent on her blackberry while she was sitting through the eulogies ...

Owen said...

Trying to think of analogous euphemizing breakdown if male anatomy were at issue. Is Jake a prude, or ignorant? Or is there some FCC thing that lists The Parts That Cannot Be Named?

Bob Ellison said...

My goodness, such pussy-footing. Get over it.

PB said...

Anyone who didn't call on Bill Clinton to resign in 1998 should recuse themselves from this topic.

PB said...

As Scott Adams tweeted: "Trump is out of the running for sainthood but Kennedy-type jobs are available."

Ann Althouse said...

@PB I called on Bill Clinton to resign.

Ann Althouse said...

In 1998.

Fabi said...

So you're sticking with your sexual assault stupidity, Althouse? That's just fucking hilarious!

rhhardin said...

Vulva sounds dirty, is the problem. Vagina is more medical sounding. The correct term is pussy, however.

Bob Ellison said...

You can be an honest person seeking respect. You can be a jackass seeking respect. You can be an honest person with no interest in respect. You can be a jackass with no interest in respect.

Hillary is the latter.

Ann Althouse said...

This post is about Tapper's use of the word "vagina" as a euphemism for "pussy."

There are lots of other posts on the general topic of Trump's statement.

Please stick to the limited topic or this will be boring. I'll police this with deletions. If you want to talk about the general topic, scroll down and find another post.

PB said...

Good for you, but I think that core concept of bias and hypocrisy is lost on the Democrats and other that defended (and continue to defend) Bill.

David Begley said...

Good for Althouse. Consistent. But the Dems today howling at Trump's words backed Bill Clinton 100%. Move on.

rhhardin said...

Vagina monologue
Pussy patter

PB said...

At what point does touching another person constitute sexual assault? Keep in mind the strict definition of assault vs battery and pretty much anyone can accuse anyone else of "sexual assault" merely because they go through life for fear of being touched inappropriately.

AprilApple said...

Trump rage-a-holics need to get a grip. Your false god is losing. This is an opportunity to ditch him. Trump refuses to drop out because - ego and he plans to lose to his old friends, the Clintons.

Trump is down 3 in Florida (and in Florida 3 is a lot)

Trump is down 12 in PA.

Ann Althouse said...

"Vagina is more medical sounding."

But if you're seeking the safe harbor of science, don't do bad science. It's like overcorrection in grammar. It's worse than the street talk.

Bob Ellison said...

Be good, children. My post was about language. Keep it about language. Don't deviate, children, or else I'll delete.

Laslo Spatula said...

Socially Awkward Guy Who Makes No Eye Contact says:

All of this talk of pussy makes me nervous. I mean, I know women have vaginas, but I don't like to think about them, and the word 'vulva' makes me break into a cold sweat...

I mean, you never can be truly sure what is UP THERE. It's like reaching into the mouth of a big snake -- are you going to find a half-digested rabbit or something like that? I'd rather just not put anything of mine into the snake: it seems safer that way...

That's why it's better to just pee on women: when I am peeing on a woman I am as close as I want to get. It doesn't even require touching, much less the vagina. Or vulva. Or uterus. You know: all that weird woman shit hidden UP THERE...

Like no one else thinks these things.

I hope the Girl with the Blue Hair is working at McDonalds today.


I am Laslo.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Please stick to the limited topic or this will be boring.

It's already boring. You are a female rhhardin with your obsessions. Rh, please come here and give us more of your radio jabber.

rhhardin said...

Tapper is caught by the spread in the application of vagina. It means both vulva and vagina depending on context; he got stuck with a new context, grabbing, cutting out the vulva meaning, and a ridiculous collapse of what he thought was safe going in.

Hagar said...

"Good morning, Madam Secretary."
"Fuck you!"

This is not a time to get prissy about foul language with no menace behind it.

And the more I think about it, the more it looks like a coordinated GOPe "dirty trick" operation, not a Democrat one. It should not be allowed to succeed.

Rhythm and Balls said...

No one - and I mean, no one - uses the word "vulva."

What are you trying to do... make yourself look scientifically interested/literate after calling rabbits "rodents?" It's just as likely for a lay person to use the word "lagomorph" as it is to say "vulva."

Don't feel bad. People don't usually get too technical when referring to various components of a penis, either, lady.

Bad Lieutenant said...

April, you don't get it. If Einstein (an adulterer, BTW, sorry to say) or Jesus Christ were available, they could not be substituted for Trump and get 270 electoral votes. There is no mechanism.

Chanie said...

Roflmao. Never in my 40 years of locker room immaturity have i thought of "pussy" as slang for anything but "vagina." Vulva? Seriously? Lol. But then didn't Ann have a post recently about guys meaning cat when they said pussy? She's clearly an authority in this are.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Well to be fair, I could see how you'd expect the journalist to use the proper technical reference. But we are talking MSM, here. Since when does accuracy matter to them?

Meade said...

(CNN)Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday for barring all Muslims [who grope] from entering the United States.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of [groping] Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.

rhhardin said...

Rh, please come here and give us more of your radio jabber.

Radio jabber is actually web surfing. The radio is next to the mouse and under the monitor, for when nothing good has come up for a while, and you just flip it on and see what's over there on the air.

The connection would be lost if there were an actual "shack" with lined up receivers and transmitters on their own table, which most misguided hams have.

This is just for when pussy analysis goes stale.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Please stick to the limited topic or this will be boring. I'll police this with deletions."

Only me and rhhardin's comments will be left.

The New World.

I am Laslo.

Owen said...

Tapper could have said "pudendum" but that is something only a dumb prude could love.

How about..."mons"? Succinct, accurate, fresh, even trendy.

AprilApple said...

Mulva?

Bad Lieutenant said...


And the more I think about it, the more it looks like a coordinated GOPe "dirty trick" operation, not a Democrat one. It should not be allowed to succeed.

If that's the case, Hagar, then I say give it to her. And Congress too. Let the heavens fall, a GOP that would do that deserves to die. I only wish I owned firearms.

But I'd still rather carry Trump over the finish line.

Bob Boyd said...

Tapper could have said "...grab them by the genitals"

IMO he was correct not to choose the term "...'gina n shit"

Ann Althouse said...

The use of the word "vagina" for "vulva" is slang -- very dumb slang. It's much worse than saying "pussy." But Tapper couldn't say "pussy." So he should not have said "vagina" as a substitute. If you're trying to set a higher tone, you should only say "vagina" to refer, anatomically correctly, to the vagina.

It's *especially* true if you're going to say "grab women by the vagina."

First, you've got me trying to picture something that would be very hard to do. Secondly, digital penetration of the vagina is literally rape, and you're creating a shocking image. That's an imposition on the minds of listeners, much more than saying "pussy." And from a journalistic standpoint, it's unfair to Trump. He was only talking about something less invasive.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Pubis?

AprilApple said...

What diff? Bad L.

If Trump loses - as the polls predict right now - what diff? Nobody cares.

The idea the left would hold on to this and NOT use it is ridiculous.

AprilApple said...

Dolores!

Ann Althouse said...

There are other words Tapper could have used, such as "private parts" or "an intimate part of the female anatomy" or "an intimate zone that I will not name on the air."

rhhardin said...

Pussy is for the general area, which, pre-waxing, was nice but not visible. So the word remained indefinite as to detail.

Vagina is too much of a detail, because its medical meaning will intrude if it's offered a chance.

Vulva is just unfamiliar, and probably not much good to medicine either. It would have to be whatever area, starting to be revealed, would attract a male's interest. Probably highly variable.

Pubic hair was invented to avoid this problem of definition.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Ann, what if Trump, in this private conversation, had in fact said, instead of "grab the pussy," had said "you can finger-bang them," or even "you can fuck them on the dinner table?"

At what point would you realize that consent was implied? That is the very force of "can."

Bob Boyd said...

@Meade
Trump has always been about protecting American jobs.

EDH said...

Althouse tends to get this way when each of her initial takes on an issue crumble under scrutiny.

She ignores the most persuasive comments of her commenters that Fisk her prior theories, and then goes looking for new ones.

Pulling out the "50 Shades" counter argument due to "55k shares on Facebook" (whatever import that confers), while ignoring the actual arguments of commenters on her blog.

For instance, Althouse's "The women are so pathetic" theory from yesterday.

rhhardin said...

"an intimate zone that I will not name on the air."

Might be nipples. If you set the listeners searching their little minds for the referent, the fake note of dignity collapses ridiculously.

And a woman might not regard it as intimate. She might regard it as just a hygiene problem.

So many contexts.

Hagar said...

We have been battered about the ears with "The Vagina Monologues," etc., so long that we have become numbed and under the impression that it is an acceptable term that might be used in public discourse, but the proper term, if any, would indeed be "private parts."

Meade said...

In the wake of the [Donald J. Trump groping] attacks, a prominent Muslim imam, Sami Abu-Yusuf, told reporters women were to blame because they “dress half naked and wear perfume.” The outrageous claim prompted [Democratic Party vice president candidate Tim Kaine] to file a criminal complaint against the cleric.

Johanna Lapp said...

I'm thinking he's grabbing the outside edges of the labia. If even the tip of his finger slides between the labia, that's penetration and rape in Pennsylvania. Unless there's consent.

Or else the judge let our jury convict an innocent man.

Ann Althouse said...

"Roflmao. Never in my 40 years of locker room immaturity have i thought of "pussy" as slang for anything but "vagina." Vulva? Seriously? Lol."

You think Trump was referring to grabbing a woman by the anatomical part of the body that is properly called the vagina? I can't even picture how that would be done in the sudden way Trump is talking about, which relates to encountering someone clothed.

I guess there's a psychological sense where it's metaphorical, like reaching someone's "heart." But that doesn't fit the context at all. Everyone — stars and non-stars alike — can try to reach other people by appealing to their sexuality.

rhhardin said...

"Gateway to the vagina" would he uplifting.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Rh, thank you so much.

April, but he can still turn it around, perhaps. There is no other possible chance to stop her.

Ann, "an intimate zone that I will not name on the air." That ship has sailed. The whole thing was aired, quoted and commented on in its entirety. The media loved the smell so much they smeared it all over themselves. Now, standards? Whores, all.

"Crotch?"

Bob Boyd said...

If Tapper said "grabbing her Vulva" people would think Trump was talking about confiscating imported cars and start cheering for him.

Ann Althouse said...

People who think I'm being a prude have it backwards. I think you're lacking a sense of humor about this. I was laughing at Tapper. That's why I made the video of it. Too bad you can't have fun with it. You're so hot to protect Trump. That's ludicrous too. I invite you to laugh at yourselves.

AprilApple said...

Look at the lower right corner of Ann's snap CNN image. A stock photo of Hillary and a stock photo of Trump.

Hillary looks pleasant, Trump looks angry and dark. I'm sure CNN did that on purpose, as CNN is a giant campaign ad for Hillary.

This is what we are up against. And they are saying there are tapes of Trump saying worse. We should have vetted the guy. We know the rules. D-candidate can be a full-on criminal. R candidate cannot even buy a boat.

rhhardin said...

It's the absense of pubic hair that's causing all the semantic problems with female parts. Suddenly possible referents appear, instead of fading into a general neat thing.

Women are so variable, then, too. One has the referent and the next doesn't.

Pussy is a lifesaver, in speaking of women in general.

Ann Althouse said...

"At what point would you realize that consent was implied?"

At no point. The statement was made in the past. It is what it is. Consent of the sort that would be needed to do what is talked about is not implied. Someone letting you get away with something that you simply leap into doing is not consenting, just putting up with it or deciding not to get into a difficult conflict with you.

AprilApple said...

Bob Boyd - lol

IMO he was correct not to choose the term "...'gina n shit"

Rhythm and Balls said...

The use of the word "vagina" for "vulva" is slang -- very dumb slang. It's much worse than saying "pussy." But Tapper couldn't say "pussy." So he should not have said "vagina" as a substitute. If you're trying to set a higher tone, you should only say "vagina" to refer, anatomically correctly, to the vagina.

We are a society that is nervously ambivalent about the clitoris. Where did you think we were living? France?

People who think I'm being a prude have it backwards.

I think you make enough excuses about American prudery to be the vanguard of pushing the envelope on this one.

mccullough said...

Pudenda would have been more accurate and funnier. I doubt the word choice was Tapper's. Probably his bosses.

Laslo Spatula said...

Socially Awkward Guy Who Makes No Eye Contact says:

Maybe at one time women's vaginas DID have teeth, but they disappeared due to evolution. People don't need tails, vaginas don't need teeth. But that means the labia are just the same as our gums, which means vaginas and vulvas can get gingivitis or periodontitis -- I think they just call it 'vaginal itch' now, but I know better...

Knowing that, sticking your dick into a woman's vagina is no better than sticking your dick into the mouth of a toothless crack whore. I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to put my dick into the mouth of a toothless crack whore...

No thank you: I'll stick to peeing on women, I even prefer it when they are not naked: I don't want to be distracted by catching a glimpse of nasty bits hanging out like rotten roast beef..

Like no one else thinks these things.

I hope the Girl with the Blue Hair is working at McDonalds today.


I am Laslo.

Rhythm and Balls said...

At no point. The statement was made in the past. It is what it is. Consent of the sort that would be needed to do what is talked about is not implied. Someone letting you get away with something that you simply leap into doing is not consenting, just putting up with it or deciding not to get into a difficult conflict with you.

So you're down with the current college agenda that demands direct, explicit, verbal consent be obtained (but apparently not videotaped or documented) before every single sexual maneuver?

Do you think this is how sexually active adults, who are under no threat of prosecution or even being thought criminal, actually behave?

Chanie said...

I used to hear people say "grab life by the balls." Only now with Ann's leadership have i realized they were encouraging me to sexually assault men.

Meade said...

rhhardin said...
"Gateway to the vagina" would he uplifting.
------------------------------------------

Confusing. Sounds too much like Gateway Pundit.com.

Bob Boyd said...

Pudenda kind of sounds like an imported car too...maybe Russian.

"Is that a Pudenda?"
"No, I think it's a Lada."

Hagar said...

Though the age was named for the queen of England, it was in the USA that prudery went to the most extreme lengths, such as it being "indelicate" to refer to the "legs" of a table or chair. We do not want to return to that, but neither is it necessary to behave as crudely as is the current fashion.

Meade said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
"Do you think this is how sexually active adults, who are under no threat of prosecution or even being thought criminal, actually behave?"

Smart sexually active adults always get consent. Consent — ever heard of it?

rhhardin said...

All a guy can resolve, girls pay attention, when he grabs a pussy, is pubic hairs. Everything else is too soft to reflect a grab.

It feels resolved to you probably, but not to him.

That's why he's trying to get a finger under your panties.

That's also why Trump's grab a pussy is not literal.

Grab a vulva starts you looking for anatomical possibilities, without offering any.

Grab a vagina of course resolves the referent but is something entirely other.

rhhardin said...

Trump grabbed her by the consent.

Bob Boyd said...

As they say in Sweden, "Happiness is warm Volvo."


rhhardin said...

You can go the self-mocking dignity route with "crotchal area."

Meade said...

He could have said "down there" but all the rhhardins would've screamed "PC!"

Ann Althouse said...

Jake could have had a Barbie doll and pointed to the place.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I want to know at what point the animal species known as Humanus americanus decided that thousands of millennia of implied consent was now out the window, and innuendo-free, direct verbal answers were the norm for consenting to sexual activity among law-abiding adults.

I can't think of a single animal species in which body language is not the female norm for communicating consent - with a display of the posterior, lordosis posture, etc. I'm supposed to believe that in humans we've now made the one thing where innuendo is the norm something where direct, clear verbal answers will become the new standard?

I can imagine people in Germany actually shouting out, "Yes, I agree to this specific sex act!" - preferably in a heavy Bavarian accent. I don't see that kind of verbal clarity actually becoming something other than a curiosity to laugh at, let alone a norm, anywhere else.

One thing's for certain, Masters and Johnson might have been invited into these university meetings where they thought they could actually re-write the rules on sexual behavior. Sure, there's assault, miscommunication, regret, ambivalence -- all this stuff and worse among America's sexually ignorant college kids. Their education and socialization prior is to blame. But the university efforts, as "noble" as we're supposed to presume them to be, are becoming the butt of the newest joke made of American society. And American society already has enough jokes it has made itself into, as is.

Ann Althouse said...

LOL. We used to say "crotchal area."

I remember Woody Allen saying "chestal area."

mccullough said...

I think Tapper should moderate the debates. He's fair and engaging.

Laslo Spatula said...

Ann Althouse said...
"Too bad you can't have fun with it... "

I am. I'm assuming you didn't notice.

"I invite you to laugh at yourselves."

You have my RSVP.

I am Laslo.



FullMoon said...

He should have said pussy, let the network decide whether to censor ,or nit.

coupe said...

"Grab" to me, means a firm grip.

I've never had the occasion to have a firm grip on that part of the anatomy. Maybe if I had to "remove pebbles" à la Lena Dunham's mother, but no, I never had that problem.

I've heard of "grab some ass" and "grab them by the balls" but these are actually things you can grab on to.

To grab someone's pussy instantly sounds masochistic to me, and maybe involves ropes and hand cuffs, or maybe pulleys, in which to dress out the carcass and disembowel them later, during the exorcism.

It all sounds pretty Hollywood to me...

"talking shit" is what we called it in high school. Some guy would brag about his success rate, and we'd all laugh. Not that we laughed at "sexual assaults", or "easy women", but rather because the guy was a braggart, and the chances of it being true were nil.

Actually it was just to waste time talking shit, waiting for the coach to put us in the game.

Oso Negro said...

rhardin, "girls" do not wear pubic hair in these latter days.

Rhythm and Balls said...

The evolution of communicating consent is one thing America's universities should seek to study. Post haste.

How do female fish communicate consent? You know, is it really enough for her to pair up alongside the male fish as they both expel gametes (sperm and egg for the suddenly scientifically curious)? Who's to assume that just being alongside a male fish as you expel eggs below you to be fertilized is sufficient? You could just be masturbating, or committing the piscine equivalent thereof.

Aren't there species of seahorses where the female deposits her fertilized eggs into a male to carry and incubate? Has anyone seriously given thought as to how his consent to this materialized and was obtained? There could be a lot of assaulted male seahorses out there, and we need to think of them. Especially with how adorable we find them, and this "male pregnancy" phenomenon of theirs.

What about the frogs who carry eggs in their mouths or on their backs for safe-keeping?

Without elaborate legal instruments concerning these potential very serious violations, I think we should wipe out 90% of the planet's species - given their rampant immorality.

Rhythm and Balls said...

LOL. We used to say "crotchal area."

I remember Woody Allen saying "chestal area."


Hey. It's all fun and games until someone gets raped.

I'm sorry, I mean assaulted.

So just so we know where you're coming from here, is there anything serious to be taken about the accusation? Do you take it as seriously as you seemed to when all in "law prof" mode yesterday?

Or is taking sexual assault seriously just something you do when in political character on a blog? (e.g., "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on tv." I'm not a sex assault expert, but I pretend to be one while playing politics on a blog.)

Lol, I guess.

el polacko said...

i just noticed that i've been scrolling past our hostess' comments. huh.

Owen said...

People: this discussion has been great, but enough is enough.

Literally and figuratively, we need to get a grip.

I think "Heaven's Gate" is the clear winner, and hereby waive any claims to it. We should credit rhhardin for helping us find our way through these thickets of signification.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Smart sexually active adults always get consent. Consent — ever heard of it?

Without documentation, there's no proof. And we all know how antsy legislators are getting about the blackmail potential of sexual scenes recorded on our newest and handiest documentation devices: Video cell phones.

Documentation, Larry. Or citation. Ever heard of it?

Char Char Binks said...

This is a teachable moment. It's time America learned about the vulva.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Meade said...

"Or is taking sexual assault seriously just something you do when in political character on a blog?"

You don't have to be a law professor or even a lawyer to read and understand the statutes on criminal sexual assault in your state.
For example, HERE are the statutes in Pennsylvania.

DCPI said...

Of course Tapper should have said "pussy" and not euphemized. He is purportedly a reporter and his job is to report what was said so that the people know. And, the Sunday morning talk shows are today's equivalent of the parlor room after dinner filled with men smoking cigars and brandy discussing the pressing issues of the day. It is the grown-ups room where people can handle grown-up talk.

The funny thing is that we are all acting like we are in the kiddy room, giggling and taking faux offense at the dirty words said by the class cut up.

I have to laugh at the pundits acting shocked. They belong at the Oscars. I am in the news media business, trust me that they are not so easily shockable as they pretend and I am lamenting the guilt by association. One of our current big three network anchor types is known among his female interns as one not to be alone with because of his wandering hands according to one who later worked for me. Don't know if he grabs pussy or just boobs though. I did not press for details. Just don't be alone with him.

To sum up: pussy is the right word. Vagina, vulva are out and -- yes Althouse -- unfair. One could always just grab a thigh, but that is too easily rebuffed and unfunny as well. Especially if one is busy working.

Laslo Spatula said...

Socially Awkward Guy Who Makes No Eye Contact says:

Know what I hate? When someone says something makes a woman's pussy 'wet'. What is it wet with? Secretions, that's what...

Are secretions EVER a good thing? You'd really put your tongue into something that secretes...?

It's like what happens in your nose, and then you have to blow it. But a woman can't blow out her pussy like a person can blow their nose, so the secretions just stay there, wet, until they dry into some wobbly nodules of who knows what...

By peeing on a woman I don't have to deal with such things. I'm just fine without knowing what is going on down there. I'm here, and I'm dry: I'm happy with that, thank you...

Like no one else thinks these things.

I hope the Girl with the Blue Hair is working at McDonalds today.


I am Laslo.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You don't have to be a law professor or even a lawyer to read and understand the statutes on criminal sexual assault in your state.
For example, HERE are the statutes..


The word "VERBAL" isn't anywhere in there, GENIUS.

For that matter, the word, "consent" isn't even defined.

Probably deliberately. You two holier-than-thous are predicating a discussion on the presumption that consent conforms to the new college standard (which is also, extra-legal) of a hypothetical verbal norm. It doesn't. That's why the universities are trying to manage sex crime allegations and proceedings outside of anything that would go to the cops or through the courts.

Did you not know this? You live in a university town. It's a serious thing, also (or serious enough for you two to play politics with). It's pretty amazing that you would pretend not to know what you're talking about when it comes to something so close to a university community and setting. But then I remember your history of how amused you are by your own ignorance. While attacking commenters knowledge of/concern for basic law and ethics while you're at it. Very noble, Larry. Very noble guy there.

n.n said...

That would be the crotch. No judgment about what lies beneath.

EDH said...

I can't believe we're still parsing this kind of surreptitiously recorded banter. Even when you do, Trump simply comes off as a celebrity braggart for the crew.

Trump: ...You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Trump said he "just starts" kissing beautiful women.

And after all that bragging in front of Bush and the crew, in the video he kisses Zucker on the cheek after Bill Bush says...

Bush: How about a little hug for the Donald? He just got off the bus.

Zucker: Would you like a little hug, darling?

Trump: Okay, absolutely. Melania said this was okay.

Bush: How about a little hug for the Bushy? I just got off the bus. There we go. Excellent. Well, you’ve got a nice co-star here.

Zucker: Yes. Absolutely.


So, after all the bragging in front of the crew, all that build-up before arriving on the soap opera set, Trump just pecks Zucker's cheek.

Moreover, Trump only bragged about touching pussy after one of the crew says, in the extreme, "whatever you want?" in the context of women who will "let you do it" when you're a star.

Trump: ...You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Unidentified voice: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.


In summary: (1) Trump says he kisses women right away [and belies that with a peck on Zucker's cheek only after Bush asked for a "hug" on Trump's behalf], (2) Trump says about "stars" "they'll let you do anything" [i.e., after consent] and (3) upon receiving the "whatever?" question from the crew Trump says "Grab them by the pussy."

It's not even clear Trump is talking about himself as a "star" when he talks about what is done in the extreme after being asked by the crew. He could have been talking about the people he's met, including Bill Clinton, or even the legendary Shark Episode for all we know.

Rock journalist Stephen Davis, in his Led Zeppelin biography Hammer of the Gods, provided the following account of the event:

One girl, a pretty young groupie with red hair, was disrobed and tied to the bed. According to the legend of the shark episode, Led Zeppelin then proceeded to stuff pieces of shark into her vagina and rectum.

Davis notes that Led Zeppelin's road manager Richard Cole, disputed this version, and quotes this variation:

It wasn't Bonzo, it was me. It wasn't shark parts anyway: It was the nose that got put in. We caught a lot of big sharks, at least two dozen, stuck coat hangers through the gills and left 'em in the closet... But the true shark story was that it wasn't even a shark. It was a red snapper and the chick happened to be a fucking redheaded broad with a ginger pussy. And that is the truth. Bonzo was in the room, but I did it. Mark Stein [of Vanilla Fudge] filmed the whole thing. And she loved it. It was like, "You'd like a bit of fucking, eh? Let's see how your red snapper likes this red snapper!" That was it. It was the nose of the fish, and that girl must have cum 20 times. But it was nothing malicious or harmful, no way! No one was ever hurt.

coupe said...

You could say "grab a quickie".

I mean, you can't really "grab" a quickie, but you can quickly have a grab.

I'm sure there's a grammar rule for grabbing something without having to grip anything.

I'm so confused now, as to who to vote for.

I'm think Huma and Anthony might be kind of a wild trip for four years...

EDH said...

Rock journalist Stephen Davis, in his Led Zeppelin biography Hammer of the Gods, provided the following account of the event:

One girl, a pretty young groupie with red hair, was disrobed and tied to the bed. According to the legend of the shark episode, Led Zeppelin then proceeded to stuff pieces of shark into her vagina and rectum... It was a red snapper and the chick happened to be a fucking redheaded broad with a ginger pussy... And she loved it. It was like, "You'd like a bit of fucking, eh? Let's see how your red snapper likes this red snapper!" That was it. It was the nose of the fish, and that girl must have cum 20 times. But it was nothing malicious or harmful, no way! No one was ever hurt.

Althouse, you weren't by chance in in Seattle in 1969?

In Seattle

The bluest skies you've ever seen in Seattle
And the hills the greenest green in Seattle
Like a beautiful child growing up free and wild
Full of hopes and full of fears
Full of laughter full of tears
Full of dreams to last the years in Seattle
In Seattle...

When you find your own true love
You will know it
By her smile, by the look in her eye
Scent of pine trees in the air...
Look out, here come the brides!

SayAahh said...

Itchypussy...Mitsubishi, what's the diff?.
Once you've seen one Japanese car you have seen them all.

Fabi said...

Show me on the doll where Professor Althouse chastised you.

Fabi said...

That's not the topic of this post, Meade -- watch out!

buster said...

Nice to have Laslo back, but Replacement Laslo was pretty good, too.

I've said critical things about R&B in the past, but I take it all back.

All hail rhhardin.

Kevin said...

Tapper should have said "the p-word". That's how we discuss things so everyone knows they're not to be discussed.

Use of the actual word normalizes it to our ears, limiting the desired effect on the electorate when we need to dial up the outrage.

AprilApple said...

R&B is right.

Bob R said...

My nominee for the best euphemism for "pussy" was in the bowdlerization of (Nixon Sec. of Agriculture) Earl Butz' "joke," "All the blacks want is loose shoes, good sex, and a warm place to go to the bathroom." It's great because it actually made the joke funny as opposed to a straight-up insult that stood in for something funny. "Sex" as a euphemism for "pussy" would have probably worked for Tapper.

Iconochasm said...

"At no point. The statement was made in the past. It is what it is. Consent of the sort that would be needed to do what is talked about is not implied. Someone letting you get away with something that you simply leap into doing is not consenting, just putting up with it or deciding not to get into a difficult conflict with you."

Is this an endorsement of affirmative consent? Do you really think he's just grabbed random women with no prior interation during which he could have gauged interest? It seems hard to justify all the negative assumptions required for your interpretation.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Well, I shan't think of wobbly nodules the same again.

Char Char Binks said...

By "grab" Trump probably meant "garner". I have the best words.

robother said...

"Womb" would resonate with the ancient origins of the term "wo(mb)man" although suffering from the same literal defect as vagina. "Mons Veneris" would be clinically correct, and would suit the High Church pearl-clutching most media talking heads are going for. But maybe that's going full Margaret Dumont, over the top even for Tapper?

coupe said...

Char Char Binks said...By "grab" Trump probably meant "garner". I have the best words.

Yes, sounds very Brooklyn...

Meade said...

AprilApple said...
R&B is right.
-----------------
What is R&B right about? That we should assume that Juanita Broaddrick is lying about the Clintons?

Bob Boyd said...

Althouse said..."No one was picturing grabbing a woman by the vagina. If we were, those of us who are saying that Trump was referring to sexual assault would be saying rape, not merely sexual assault."

Normally you'd be right, but Trump's notoriously short fingers may be incapable of anything more than assault.

Fernandinande said...

Laslo said...
It's like reaching into the mouth of a big snake -- are you going to find a half-digested rabbit or something like that?


We call our female dog's genitalia her "puppy tube".

So: pussy = "end of the baby tube", all perfectly cromulent words to embiggen the minds of their listeners.

Ann Althouse said...
Secondly, digital penetration of the vagina is literally rape,


Not to the groupies who expect it and allow it.

Just to recall a basic fact: Intercourse/PIV[Penis In Vagina] is always rape, plain and simple.
"This is a developed recap from what I’ve been saying in various comments here and there in the last two years or so. as a radfem I’ve always said PIV is rape and I remember being disappointed to discover that so few radical feminists stated it clearly. How can you possibly see it otherwise? Intercourse is the very means through which men oppress us, from which we are not allowed to escape, yet some instances of or PIV and intercourse may be chosen and free? That makes no sense at all."

The last sentence made sense if it referred to the rest of it.

Bob R said...
"All the blacks want is loose shoes, good sex, and a warm place to go to the bathroom."


For Mr. Spatula the last two overlap quite a bit. Maybe shoes could take care of all three if he's got a foot-fetish, although then he might have issues with loose vs tight shoes. Two pairs!

n.n said...

Female chauvinism, liberalism, and the establishment of the Pro-Choice Church are to blame for debasing women, men, and human life generally, and setting civilization on a progressive slope.

n.n said...

Kaine needs to leave the Pro-Choice Church, reject class diversity, abandon female chauvinism, dump congruency ("="), replace trickle-up poverty, deny progressive wars, condemn emigration reform, and repent for his support of abortion rites in a final solution.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Meade, are you trying to put words into April's mouth? Speaking for her?

I won't, and wouldn't, do that. But what I will venture is that she's probably referring to what Iconochasm stated more succinctly than I. And that is that we're not only forgetting Trump's penchant for wild exaggeration - which he probably did with his comment - but the fact that it's highly unlikely he was talking about "grabbing" random, unfamiliar women on the street in a rude, intrusive/provocative and/or potentially illegal way.

In all likelihood he's talking about women with whom an acquaintance had been made, heavy mutual flirtation had taken place (likely including mutual physical/tactile touching/flirtation) and then proceeding from there. And given Trump's penchant for traveling in circles populated by models, entertainers, artists, athletes, celebrities, moguls and politicians - circles in which the air of aphrodisiacal power is much headier, and sexual licentiousness much freer, it's highly likely that he's talking about situations much different than what you (and even I) are most familiar with, where libidinous behavior is much more restricted.

The women whom Clinton abused and groped did not have and were not given to using a celebrity status (or proximity to it) to more openly pursue a heavily sexualized liaison - apart from Southern California-raised starfucker Lewinsky. They took pride in their plain, down-home ways - and did not seek out Clinton or his clique for whatever sniff of power he could have aroused them with. Other women of course did seek Clinton out for precisely that reason. But we know that a good number did not, and did not like what they got.

But I have every confidence that you'll pretend not to understand any of this, as well.

Clyde said...

Groping women and girls is probably the least of the peccadillos that make Muslims undesirable for immigration to civilized Western societies. Far higher up the list would be what could be quaintly termed "blowing shit up." Also, mass murder in the name of their god (see 9/11, San Bernardino, Orlando, Fort Hood, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.), whether by gun, knife or rampaging truck.

Darrell said...

Hillary is a Soros-controlled Globalist open-borders, pro-amnesty idiot that may--through her own stupidity and arrogance--have become the biggest felon in US history number-wise, given that a good prosecutor could make a case for two felonies for every email. One for violating the regulations against private email, and another for violating the secrecy act(s).

Darrell said...

Read EDH. Trump is engaging in a NYC pissing contest. Making wild claims about his sexual prowess, while the other guys listen and scoff--and laugh. It's all tongue in cheek and that is not a sexual reference.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Clyde said...
Groping women and girls is probably the least of the peccadillos that make Muslims undesirable for immigration to civilized Western societies. Far higher up the list would be what could be quaintly termed "blowing shit up." Also, mass murder in the name of their god (see 9/11, San Bernardino, Orlando, Fort Hood, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.), whether by gun, knife or rampaging truck."

Ah, yes, but Kaine attacking an iman for sexism is great timing. It removes the charge that Dems are completely indifferent to the threat posed by Muslim immigrants. In this instance they can compare Trump to a sexist iman so it works for them. It won't change the Democrat policy of bringing as many Muslim refugees into the country as they can manage, but it will achieve the desired effect of impressing the Meades of this world.

How easily some people are played.

jr565 said...

But its not unreasoable to assume that those who have sex with celebrities WONT do more with them than they woudl with your average person.
Its a celebrity.
We often hear how people have a celebrity get out of cheating card. in other words, its ok if you cheat, if you are cheating with Brad Pitt, or Angelina Jolie.

Ross from friends made this very same joke on Friends when he mentioned the women it would be ok to sleep with and didn't include Isabelle Rosellini, (he had her on the list then took her off of it) and then he met Isabell Rosellini and told her about the lst and then said she wasnt' on it.
https://youtu.be/1NIBxJgUolw

But the point is, celebrities have power that the average person simply doesnt have. ANd plenty of women who would go after Trump woudl have NO problems if he kissed htem or grabbed their pussy. Groupies try to get fucked by the star.

And if they did Have Trump they would then tell their girlfriends about the sex. What size was his penis. how long did he last? etc etc etc.

if he says "they let me do it" its not beyond the realms of imagination that this is a simple fact. Now, if he finds women that wont let him and he does it anyway, then sure, thats assault. But he was describing hte women that did. in the past tense. How is it even an issue if he says "They let me do it" since he could simpy be describing those that did.

Has someone come forward who he said let him grab her pussy who said No in fact he raped me and I filed a police report?
Like Say, I dont know, Cathleen Willey, or Paula Jones. or the various other women who claimed Bill assaulted them?

richard mcenroe said...

In Linda Ellerbee's book about her career at NBC, the chauvinism and misogyny of show business professionals (yes, TV newspeople) is amply documented. It was so widely acknowledged and accepted, according to Ellerbee, that one bride turned to her TV news husband AT THE ALTAR and whispered, "Bangkok doesn't count."

Jake Tapper's ivory pedestal might need a good wipe iteself.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
walter said...

OMG!That "big ugly head"!

grackle said...

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of [groping] Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.

I thought this post was about the reaction of a ignorant talking head about what Trump said. What you are misquoting above is nothing Trump ever said. I guess details like that are unimportant when the subject is Trump, right?

I do not find Trappers squeamishness particularly interesting so I will not read any of the comments.

walter said...

All serious broadcasters embrace "hooha".

Mom2Es said...

I can't even picture how that would be done in the sudden way Trump is talking about, which relates to encountering someone clothed.

Trump didn't say "suddenly." He just said women would let him do those things. You're using the assumptions you read into his statement to judge and then dismiss everyone else's assumptions. But ultimately they are all assumptions, since he did not actually start kissing the woman in purple when he stepped off the bus.

If we assume that "let" does not mean actual consent, then there's no reason to draw the line at assault rather than rape. He'd just finished talking about how he had tried to [initiate an affair with] a married woman by taking her furniture shopping, after all.

Just replace what he said with "feel her up" and call it a day instead of haggling over individual body parts.

Curious George said...

Jake Tapper is a vulva.