October 9, 2016

"I'm seeing people defending Trump. They say 'locker room.' And: this is the way men talk when they are alone with men."

"It's like they are *trying* to validate the anti-fraternity ideology of feminists."

Something I wrote in a discussion at Facebook yesterday.

156 comments:

Terry said...

"the anti-fraternity ideology" of feminists.
I think Althouse meant to write "toxic femininity" here.
Toxic femininity is obsessed with controlling the male gaze.

tim maguire said...

Most of my locker-room time was in the 80's and early 90's and I don't believe I've ever heard a guy say anything like this. Maybe in 9th grade, but not since. My issue is not with the disgust over Trump and what he said, it's the moral and intellectual frivolousness behind saying we should change who we want to place in the most powerful and important position in the world based on it. People will die because other people won't vote for a borish braggart.

mccullough said...

Some men talked like this. Probably more prevalent in the past among septuagenarians like Trump and Clinton. Seems less prevalent these days. Even the rappers don't rap as much like this anymore.

mikee said...

Forget the feminists. This isn't about them.
This is about a corrupt politician, Hillary Clinton, attempting to win an election she really has no business being in, by smearing her opponent with irrelevant muck.

Her husband, the world's most famous rapist, might want to comment on her political techniques, but I doubt he wants to discuss the subject of how men in positions of wealth and power treat women.

Real American said...

who cares? people say things all the time in private they wouldn't say in public. Men brag about banging women. Sometimes it isn't even true. Either way, they sometimes use filthy language to describe it. that's been going on forever. Trump's version may be more colorful than most, but is this really a news? it's only news because why? He threatens leftist power, so he must be destroyed. that's all this is. nothing more, and look at all the tools who have fallen for this distraction as if you all previously thought Trump was a man of high moral character and virtue. pathetic.

Administrator said...

Funny. NBC didn't have any problems with Trump when he was still a Democrat and getting paid 7 figures to appear on their reality show...

Strange, no?

Hagar said...

Very few men talk like this and they make other men uncomfortable when they do. Just listen to young Billy Bush's snickers. Why did Trump do it? Well, it establishes dominance over young Billy.

Jupiter said...

"I'm seeing people defending Trump. They say 'locker room.' And: this is the way men talk when they are alone with men."
"It's like they are *trying* to validate the anti-fraternity ideology of feminists."


So, the "anti-fraternity ideology of feminists" is motivated by the desire -- and intention -- to control every single aspect of the life of every single male? To police not only our behavior, but even our private speech? We sort of suspected that, but it's nice to have this confirmation.

buwaya puti said...

?
The male objection to feminism is that male behavior is normal and healthy, not that males actually conform to feminist standards.
Any male denying feminist allegations about male behavior is most of the way to surrendering to them. A weak and useless creature.
To quote Popeye the Sailor, I am what I am and thats all what I am.
A great philosopher, Popeye.

AprilApple said...

Defending Trump against hypocrisy.

If The Clintons were a paragon of prudence, honesty, integrity, and sexual decency, the media might actually have something here.

Char Char Binks said...

Hagar hit it on the head.

Of course, now Billy will be punished for not correcting and scolding Trump 11 years ago. His embarrassed tittering will be taken for tacit, admiring approval, and he'll be forced into the basket with Donald Trump, Ryan Lochte, and Bock Turner.

David Hampton said...

What a joke. As if the women who go to the head in a group don't talk about the slathering herd of males in the outer room, including the way other women are dressed, perfume, color or lipstick, cosmetics, and the list goes on. Females are ruthless towards each other and the neutered males available like zucchini in the produce section. Save the outrage against Trump and focus on the way Hillary treats other women.

William said...

Trump's words were wrong. There's no way you can defend them without sounding like a Democrat parsing the fine details of Clinton's bimbo eruptions. That said, it's not a deal breaker. What would be a deal breaker was if they caught Trump on a hot mic saying that he was in favor of open borders and enrolling illegal immigrants in Obamacare.

Laslo Spatula said...

Trump's quote, again.

Meanwhile a quote like this goes untouched:

"The main reason behind successful immigration should be painfully obvious to even the most dimwitted of observers: Some groups of people are almost always highly successful given only half a chance (Jews*, Hindus/Sikhs and Chinese people, for example), while others (Muslims, blacks** and Roma***, for instance) fare badly almost irrespective of circumstances."

This one seems easier to parse, too.

Eh.

I am Laslo.

Martha said...

Jupiter said:
So, the "anti-fraternity ideology of feminists" is motivated by the desire -- and intention -- to control every single aspect of the life of every single male? To police not only our behavior, but even our private speech? We sort of suspected that, but it's nice to have this confirmation.

To be what was until recently considered "male"—especially alpha male—is not permitted. Men can be metrosexual or homosexual but God forbid NOT red blooded aggressive

David Begley said...

I'm sorry. This is so, so irrelevant. Politics is about the future and not was or was not said in locker rooms 11 years ago.

But Hillary has Trump right where she wants him and even Althouse (who is really too smart for such a pedestrian trick) falls for it.

The woman card is the only card Hillary has in a five card game. The other four are eight years of objective failure. Let me count the ways: Under 2% growth, ZIRP, $19t in debt, low home ownership rates, stagnant wages, food stamp participation way up, racial disharmony, domestic terrorism, open borders, crime wave, Middle East in flames, millions displaced, 450k dead in Syria, Libya, Iran, Russia, China and North Korea.

By all means, keep talking about pussy.

Wake up Althouse. Think!

Gk1 said...

We are still talking about this? Incredible that this is even a thing. I think the press/ liberals are giddy that they finally think they have something after throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at Trump. I guess time will tell.

Martha said...

........heterosexual.

William said...

As Administrator points out, his tape has sat in the NBC for eleven years. It didn't disqualify Trump from being an NBC star, nor a Republican primary candidate. However, such words disqualify him from running against a sainted candidate like Hillary Clinton......Does anyone besides me think that however dishonorable Trump's words were, the actions of NBC are worse?

boycat said...

If Hillary has one of those moments during tonight's debate while the TV camera is on her where her eyeballs roll around in opposite directions while she grins maniacally into space like the Joker, then what are people gonna think about all this?

exiledonmainstreet said...

We are living in a time when what one says is more important than what one actually does. Trump's vulgarity is somehow worse than what the Clintons have done.

We are an excessively feminized culture and we are on a collision course with excessively masculinized cultures.

It will not be long before we are forced to deal with far bigger problems than frat boy boasting. And we will be utterly unequipped to deal with them because we've spent our time obsessing over trivial shit like this.

holdfast said...

1) Other than completely feminized gamma-douches, no male cares what any professional feminist says or thinks. The very fact that it was said by a "professional feminist" makes us more likely to believe the opposite. Makes us more likely to support Trump even though we consider him a snake-oil salesman with a mediocre IQ.

2) The 1990s Clinton scandals taught us that professional feminists are all just whores anyway - mostly political whores, sometimes literal whores (see Nina Burleigh).

3) We've all heard worse in a locker room, Army barracks etc. Most of us haven't said as bad or worse, but we've certainly heard it - sometimes from guys who were complete tools, and in other cases from guys who were otherwise outstanding athletes, bankers, soldiers, etc, but were just crude when it came to women. We also know that it was mostly talk and they weren't getting that much action anyway.

4) We all know that this is the rankest hypocrisy - and that when push comes to access to abortion, the feminist wing of the Dem coalition will always protect the sexual assaulter - not just Bill Clinton, but also a Teddy Kennedy (who KILLED his side piece) or a Chris Dodd.

"As Gaviglio enters the room, the six-foot-two, 225-plus-pound Kennedy grabs the five-foot-three, 103-pound waitress and throws her on the table. She lands on her back, scattering crystal, plates and cutlery and the lit candles. Several glasses and a crystal candlestick are broken. Kennedy then picks her up from the table and throws her on Dodd, who is sprawled in a chair. With Gaviglio on Dodd's lap, Kennedy jumps on top and begins rubbing his genital area against hers, supporting his weight on the arms of the chair. As he is doing this, Loh enters the room. She and Gaviglio both scream, drawing one or two dishwashers. Startled, Kennedy leaps up. He laughs. Bruised, shaken and angry over what she considered a sexual assault, Gaviglio runs from the room. Kennedy, Dodd and their dates leave shortly thereafter, following a friendly argument between the senators over the check."

http://www.gq.com/story/kennedy-ted-senator-profile

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I am a woman and have no interest in policing what men (or others) say when I'm not around, and furthermore the bullshit white-knighting that liberal males are running around doing, trying to protect my tender ears, makes me want to PUKE.

BDNYC said...

And what about your "criminal sexual assault" bullshit? It's like you're *trying* to validate every critique of feminist ideology.

William said...

This is all due to a misunderstanding of the word pussy. It depends on what the meaning of pussy is. When Trump uses the word pussy, he is not referring to any anatomical location on a woman's body. He is instead using the word as a metaphor for a woman's libido. When he says that he can grab them by their pussies, he is referring to the way that his star power excites their sexual interest. In the locker room, one doesn't use words like metaphor and libido. Pussy suffices......I hope this explanation clears everything up, and we can now get on to the larger issues of such great campaign. Such a silly misunderstanding about nothing at all really.

n.n said...

The anti-woman, anti-man, and anti-baby ideology of female chauvinists.

exiledonmainstreet said...

So, the "anti-fraternity ideology of feminists" is motivated by the desire -- and intention -- to control every single aspect of the life of every single male? To police not only our behavior, but even our private speech? We sort of suspected that, but it's nice to have this confirmation.

10/9/16, 12:08 PM

Good point there. Let's set up hidden mics in frat houses, college locker rooms, corner bars and auto body shops so we can catch men talking rudely about pussy and send them to sensitivity training. What is said at Hollywood parties and Georgetown restaurants is a different matter. We need only to police the deplorables.

AJ Lynch said...

Locker room barroom pool hall classroom coffee shop....yes this is the way men sometimes talk about women. WTF Althouse are you really this dense or cloistered in academia.

Gusty Winds said...

I'm seeing people who are desperately trying to find a way to tell themselves that voting for Hillary is good for America and its next generation.

I'm seeing people try and ignore pay for play at the State Department, a preventable migrant crises threatening Western Civilization, and Hillary's lifetime record of hypocrisy when it comes to women and minorities.

I'm seeing 'educated' people ignore collusion between the Democrats and the mainstream media.

I'm seeing people who's jobs are supported by taxpayers turn the other cheek while the FBI and the Justice Department gave a free pass to Hillary and her friends so they could cover up their self enrichment schemes. Let's make that person President.

It's going to feel great to vote for Trump.

I can't imagine any of the intellectual sheep are going to feel great pulling the lever for Hillary. They'll claim they voted third party to try and pre-wash their hands. If Hillary wins, plausible deniability is going to be very important on college campuses in the next four to eight years.

R.J. Chatt said...

What David Begley said. Hillary has bad foreign policy judgement, and is fundamentally corrupt.

And btw, it's not like Trump didn't know grabbing women was wrong, he was saying that there are some women who allow themselves to be grabbed if the man is a star. Crass comment, yes. Disqualifying, no. Those women are being pretty quiet these days, aren't they? Also, we're not talking about a guy who drugged and raped women or a guy who thinks a blow job isn't sex or a guy who tells women they have to sleep with the boss to advance in their career.

MayBee said...

Why does talk like this support the anti-fraternity ideology? If it's just talk, why don't you support it as free speech?
More speech!!

Let the men have a place where they get together and be disgusting without women having to hear it! More speech!

(why not?)

Also, fraternities don't have locker rooms. Sports teams, gyms, and Congress do.

DavidD said...

Maybe James Comey's FBI should investigate whether there was any intent behind Trump's statement.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
I am a woman and have no interest in policing what men (or others) say when I'm not around, and furthermore the bullshit white-knighting that liberal males are running around doing, trying to protect my tender ears, makes me want to PUKE.

10/9/16, 12:29 PM

Here too. That's why Unknown likes to call me a man. In Unknown's world, all women are mewling victims who boast of being strong but run to their pitiful white knights for protection whenever they feel "oppressed."

It's embarrassing. These women embarrass me.

One Eye said...

Key and Peele's "I said Bitch"

William Chadwick said...

Hillary will not let Trump get away with this crime against humanity! If there's one thing Hillary stands against, it's disrespect to women! The Clintons just do not tolerate this kind of sexism! The Clintons . . . Oh, wait. Never mind.

MayBee said...

Trump is disgusting and has always been disgusting.
And at least Althouse is consistent here- she has written often about the awfulness of Bill Clinton and the feminists who support him. The people who are galling me are the people who never turned on Clinton. Who sway as one organism at his DNC speeches. Who love him so much they want his wife to be president.

*Those* are the people who are killing me right now.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Char Char Binks said...

@William

That's right. I doubt Trump meant he LITERALLY grabs women by the pussy (although he could do that, or something like it. Isn't that all part of consensual sexual behavior?).

But it doesn't matter -- he's responsible for what others choose to hear.

AprilApple said...

btw- I want Trump to get out. He must, for the good of the country.

Not because of his stupid words - but because he is losing to Hillary and this is a great excuse to get the hell out.

n.n said...

Women are not a monolithic bloc. Class diversity failure.

That said, losing our religion has placed us on a progressive slope. Establishing a Church with doctrines from the twilight zone has been a first-order cause of catastrophic anthropogenic progressive corruption.

MayBee said...

Remember when everyone was so outraged at the morality of Mark Foley emailing young male pages and possibly grooming them?

And so, they elected a Democrat who was cheating on his wife, hired his mistress for his congressional office, and then cheated on her, too?

Sadly, morality is just another game in politics.

Paul said...

"But Hillary has Trump right where she wants him and even Althouse (who is really too smart for such a pedestrian trick) falls for it."

When it comes to feminism Althouse is just as stupid and knee-jerk irrational as any other virtue signalling SJW. Anybody who buys into ANY PC cultural Marxist ideology checks their brains at the door. Eventually violence with these people is inevitable.

Roughcoat said...

n.n.:

The abortion thread is over there. You're in the wrong place.

holdfast said...

In case anyone was wondering, this is how a guy grabs a woman's pussy. Vid is safe for work.


http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/shocking-video-recovered-bill-clinton-grabs-stewardess-pssy/

buwaya puti said...

The entire kerfuffle is yet another symptom of decadence.
Yet another example of persuasion displays in a system where the field of political discourse is widely separated from reality.

Much like a corrupt management clique in some company thats been too long insulated from market discipline, that competes within itself for the favor of its superiors through trivialities, while the bottom line is irrelevant. It takes some time for such a depraved system to adjust to reality when the wolf finally shows up. If it ever does.

boycat said...

AprilApple it's too late for him to "get out" without handing it to Hillary.

Original Mike said...

"What would be a deal breaker was if they caught Trump on a hot mic saying that he was in favor of open borders and enrolling illegal immigrants in Obamacare."

I had missed the enroll illegals in Obamacare (though you can hardly blame me; the press has reported nothing on the latest Wikileaks release). Did Hillary really say that? Jesus.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...


There is not an "anti-fraternity ideology" among feminists. Most feminists such as myself simply expect equal treatment. There is a minority of women who identify as feminists and promote a double standard. They are happy to have women only gyms, book clubs and sports but resent any male only gathering.

"Locker room" is being used to represent a single sex gathering. When women are in locker room type situations I hear plenty of male bashing take place. Plenty of women found it a great joke when Bobbit chopped off her husbands penis. Rather than denounce domestic violence threatening to penis chop was quite the standing joke for a while. Hard to not suspect HRC never joked in private about giving Bill a Bobbit. If the tape came out would Althouse and others be horrified by the violent talk in private or angry that a private conversation was made public. Double standard.

Jon Burack said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jon Burack said...

I see a lot of this sort of excuse making here and elsewhere: "People will die because other people won't vote for a borish braggart." It's this over the top nonsense that explains why BOTH sides have opted for such utterly worthless candidates in their "take no prisoners" mood.

As for men in locker rooms, my contribution is I am in a YMCA locker room twice a day, three days a week, and have been for a good while. I have never heard anything there remotely approaching Trump's talk as recorded in that tape. I've never heard anyone outside a locker room talk this way either - and believe me I have not lived among the dainty. Trump's talk is not "boorish." Nor is it "crass," as in "Crass comment, yes. Disqualifying, no" - as per R. D. Chatt, who seems to think Trump is running against Bill Clinton. Trump's comment is criminally demented. Is that disqualifying? Is ANYTHING disqualifying for his apologists unless it applies to Hillary? I myself consider Hillary a disgusting, lying, corrupt and devious woman, but I am perfectly comfortable, Gusty Winds to the contrary notwithstand, in saying I will vote for her. It should be clear from what I've said here why

buwaya puti said...

People will indeed die, John Burack.

There really is no excuse for any intelligent person to NOT understand the condition of the country. There is a remarkable amount of information online for any amateur analyst, and its easy enough to identify trends. Its also no secret to any intelligent man of affairs. We all can come to similar conclusions as Peter Thiel, in fact it is inevitable.

I dont think the situation is recoverable no matter who is elected. You can, perhaps, slow the decline a bit with Trump. But that is a gamble.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, kindly cut the crap. If you want men not to talk this way and not to act that way, then teach the younger members of your sisterhood not to let "stars" take advantage of them. Guys like Bill Clinton do what they do because they can get away with it. Now stop acting like the heroine from a 19th century novel and get upmost your fainting couch.

If you decide to vote against Trump because of this tape, you aren't taking a stand against this sort of behavior. You're saying that only Democrats are allowed to treat women this badly.

Valentine Smith said...

So Althouse decided that it's late enough in the election cycle to shed the phony neutrality mask and join the tanks of the cultist dykes. There should be some kind of limit on how much time these professors can spend in the academic bubble. They become deranged. Over time the newspeak corrupts the cogito into I'm a fucking dodo. Well I suppose that it must be very difficult to maintain any integrity in such an atmosphere. Even if, in rare cases, one had any to begin with.

Bob Ellison said...

If you can speak for equality when others screech for exceptionalism, then you will be a man.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

@ Jon Burack

Locker room is being used for an intimate male buddy gathering, it could also be all female. The YMCA where individuals who do not know each other well change together is not that type of situation. At a "book club" meeting of close women friends you might hear plenty of male bashing that none of them would dream of saying to the nodding acquaintances at their local gym. Some men never talk that way and if you are one of them, then other males would not be likely to speak to you in that way. My guess is you would be in the minority of males in the USA.

Birkel said...

Shall we gather 'round and condemn Titus for objectifying men? It has happened in these very comments.

Tits.

As somebody who thought Republicans were foolish in 1998 to push the Lewinsky scandal (the perjury scandal was significant) I am free to say the puritanical bull shit tag needs to be created and utilized. Civility? Bull shot.

bagoh20 said...

The deeply offended wouldn't have any problem at all with this if it was Hillary who grabbed some intern's junk and bragged about it. Can you even imagine them saying it disqualified her. It would make her more qualified in their eyes. This argument has as much misandry as misogyny, which is either little or none.

buwaya puti said...

And, to reiterate, you all are obsessed with individuals.
This is simply a delusion.
This is all about systems, the individuals in this case as any other are just random phenomena. As persons, even in such a powerful position, they have little real influence on the course of change in underlying systems, or for the most part on events.
You are voting on systems, the individuals in the question are figureheads. It doesnt matter how personally corrupt or incompetent or uncharismatic HRC is; her qualities and propensities are merely indicative of the state and propensities of the faction for which she is a figurehead.

Valentine Smith said...

LMAO, anyone wanna guess why Burack goes to the gym twice a day.

coupe said...

It could be, that a thoroughly corrupt President is what we need right now.

A safeguard against the thoroughly corrupt Congress, Senate, and Courts.

A nuclear triad, if you will, executive, legislative, and judicial, each competing with the other to destroy the country first, thus impeding the progress of each.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"It's like they are *trying* to validate the anti-fraternity ideology of feminists."

Trying? Try defying. You have a profoundly cloistered ignorance of how men think, Althouse. Have you ever had a stand-up fight in your life? One where you didn't hide behind your gender but went toe-to-toe, physically, intellectually, or psychologically? Your statement here makes me believe that the answer is no. And at this time of your life that means a sizable chunk of human understanding has been, and always will be, closed to you.

n.n said...

Roughcoat:

I made no mention of abortion/murder/sacrifice/genocide/exclusion/selectivity/planning/cannibalism/solution/debasement/etc. Only the targets of female chauvinist ideology. Not even the Pro-Choice Church and its quasi-religious/moral philosophy received from the twilight zone, interpreted by liberal judges, and rationalized by scientific mystics.

That said, now that it came up, it is a first-order cause of catastrophic anthropogenic progressive corruption. Women, and men, need to make better choices.

Bob Ellison said...

Cacimbo Cacimbo said, "Some men never talk that way and if you are one of them, then other males would not be likely to speak to you in that way. My guess is you would be in the minority of males in the USA."

Video or tape or it never happened.

We all hear shit about how women and men talk. It's a common topic. But if you're gonna sling shit, you gotta show shit. How often have you heard men in the locker room talk that way? Do you have recordings?

mockturtle said...

One question for you, Ann: Are you being disingenuous or are you really this naive?
Maybe you're just trolling but you're really running this into the ground.

Roughcoat said...

LMAO, anyone wanna guess why Burack goes to the gym twice a day.

Because he's bored with his job and the Oval Office smells like old cigars and Pinesol.

Roughcoat said...

n.n.:

You slay me, man. You crack me up.

Hacker said...

Miley Cyrus denounces Trump for "sexist objectifying of women."

https://i.sli.mg/447Q9Q.jpg

Fabi said...

Who knew chicks were sooooo fucking sensitive. Yo!

Unknown said...

Thank god we still have real men in this country

Thanks to south and redneck communities and some ghettos and hard urban areas, we have men willing and able to fight for us

R.J. Chatt said...

Some people don't realize the election is between two people, and you have to choose between them. Seems sort of elementary to say this but Hillary Clinton's bad judgement about Libya, the Muslim Brotherhood, her insecure email server, the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and State Department relationship are more disqualifying than a crass comment. No, I do not think Trump is running against Bill Clinton, it's Hillary who is the problem.

Bad Lieutenant said...

No, Cracker, she isn't a stand-up gal. If you are too strong against her she will just censor you, or run away and slag you later. Remember the splooge stooge meltdown. Remember the libertarian meet-up.

Burack, were you ever in the Armed Forces?



EDH said...

And women in sororities don't speak as harshly about the manipulative sexual penchant of some other women? Please.

Althouse, September 16, 2012

Letting women 'test drive' larger breasts before a boob job has led to them picking even bigger implants.


Althouse: The article makes it seem as though the decision to size up has to do with realizing extra-large breasts won't "interfere with daily life." But I'm wondering whether these women are discovering some social advantages that they are finding persuasive.


As I also pointed out last night, the likely evolution of the conversation was this:

1.) The Access Hollywood crew was talking about Nancy O'Dell's cosmetic surgery.

2.) Trump told the tale of his rebuff by O'Dell, how he likes to "just start" kissing pretty women, and that some women will allow "stars" to do anything.

3.) A crew member asks "do whatever?"

4.) In answer to the question "do whatever?" Trump says (in the extreme) "Grab pussy".

It's not clear Trump was even referring to himself as one of those "stars" or whether he was bragging to the crew about his first-person access to those circles, which would include Bill Clinton himself.

Jon Burack said...

The amount of crap here on this from the Trump apologists is astounding. As for Cacimbo Cacimbo's clever little ploy, his "when is a locker room not a locker room: defense, sorry. Let me clarify. I grew up in a gritty east coast factory town full of very gritty blacks, Italians, Poles and old time WASPs. Largely lower and lower-middle class working people. ALL of them were thrown together inside my high school. I worked with them in restaurants and factories and for the Dept. of Public Works, and played baseball with them. In all of those settings, as well as out in the "have a nice day" Midwest once I came out here in 1965, in ALL that time and in every setting, I never heard any two men discuss their actual behavior with women in the way Trump did in that tape. If you have, I would say it is YOU, not I, who need to get out a bit more and find out what the real world is like.

EDH said...

Trump in 2005 was a celebrity not a "star".

The Apprentice didn't even debut until 2008.

DCPI said...

Slightly off topic, but Lazlo alluded to some of the WikiLeaks material from Sid Blumenthal and I got sidetracked digging around a little. What is the "HRCOffice.com" domain?

Huma Abedin is receiving emails there (see here) and it is registered to Nick Merrill (see here). Merrill is a spokesperson for Hillary (see here). But I see the Daily Caller is all over it and the Rodham strategy of making The Don seem scary so women vote against him ... so ignore.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Trump only 'talks awful'—Hillary actually 'does awful'. Trump plays fast and loose with his personal womanizing, Clinton plays fast and loose with the nation's security.

Lyle said...

I don't defend what Trump said. It is disgusting stuff. Some men, but not most do talk about women this way, in my opinion. Nevertheless, I will be voting for Trump because Hillary and Bill Clinton are more deplorable. If Hillary is elected a rape apologist and rapist will occupy the White House. I choose to believe Bill's accusers.

Owen said...

Buwaya puti @1:12: "You are voting on systems, the individuals in the question are figureheads."

This.

I know Prof. Althouse is getting all sorts of data and fun and clicks out of these threads, but it's all a sideshow. She has us over here throwing darts for kewpie dolls, while the Big Top is burning down.

EDH said...

John Burack said...

I never heard any two men discuss their actual behavior with women in the way Trump did in that tape.

That's the defense, dude. Were saying it's all talk. Presumably the kind of tall talk you excluded when you said, "actual behavior".

traditionalguy said...

When did the out and proud atheists suddenly join the blasphemy police so God won't be embarrassed by hearing His warrior men talk like men and not pious legalists. Methinks you do protest too much.

If exposing Trump for raunchy talk does not suppress the evangelical vote it will have been a waste of your breath. But you knew that.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

In today's world it is common for the Left to equate speech with criminality.

mockturtle said...

Miley Cyrus denounces Trump for "sexist objectifying of women.

LOL!

AprilApple said...

Miley Cirus is embarrassing.

Roughcoat said...

Jon Burack:

I mostly agree. My background is not dissimilar from yours although, as mentioned, I'm from the Midwest. I can't say I never heard men talk like Trump but such incidences of such talk were very rare. My immigrant Irish and German great grandparents were all of humble backgrounds -- they were lowborn, if you will, peasants, working class, lower middle class. My family on both sides strove to inculcate good manners, polite speech and behavior, etc. When I got to college the campus Marxists would say that I and my ilk were cursed with a bourgeois upbringing, as manifested in our speech, behavior, values, and suchlike. In my experience the blue collar and middle class types were normally and typical rather formal in their speech. It was the gentry types, e.g. the rich North Shore kids, who who talked dirty about women and used filthy language.

But I'll vote for Trump. Because, Hillary.

William Chadwick said...

Accompanying a link to a tweet by the satirical Iowahawk ("Oddly, NBC didn't think their Trump Tapes were that big a deal when they were paying him 7 figures/episode for 10 years"), Instapundit comments:

"See, he was a Democrat when he [Trump] made made those remarks, so it was okay. It's only when he switched parties and became the GOP nominee that the remarks turned disgraceful."

Bingo

n.n said...

Trump identified the voluntary behavior of some women. A behavior that was discouraged by conservatives, and encourage by female chauvinists, liberals, etc. Now, female chauvinists and liberals want to plan their baby and birth it, too. The Pro-Choice Church, its stable full of women, and chambers full of baby parts, is on trial.

Paul said...

"The amount of crap here on this from the Trump apologists is astounding. As for Cacimbo Cacimbo's clever little ploy, his "when is a locker room not a locker room: defense, sorry. Let me clarify. I grew up in a gritty east coast factory town full of very gritty blacks, Italians, Poles and old time WASPs. Largely lower and lower-middle class working people. ALL of them were thrown together inside my high school. I worked with them in restaurants and factories and for the Dept. of Public Works, and played baseball with them. In all of those settings, as well as out in the "have a nice day" Midwest once I came out here in 1965, in ALL that time and in every setting, I never heard any two men discuss their actual behavior with women in the way Trump did in that tape. If you have, I would say it is YOU, not I, who need to get out a bit more and find out what the real world is like. "

Bullshit. I've heard shit like this my whole life and I was raised in suburbia. As an adult as a professional musician I've seen shit that would make a dickless cuck like you cry for mommy.

Original Mike said...

Well, I feel a little better. I watched MTP today and it was 60 minutes on Trump. They ignored the new revelations about Hillary. Just watched Fox News Sunday, and they gave significant time to Hillary (of course they talked about Trump too).

Why does anybody watch MTP? Yeah, I know I watched it, but I wanted to see how they treated Hillary. Still can't believe they gave her a complete pass.

DCPI said...

Owen @1:33

This

C Stanley said...

Accompanying a link to a tweet by the satirical Iowahawk ("Oddly, NBC didn't think their Trump Tapes were that big a deal when they were paying him 7 figures/episode for 10 years)

Shouldn't the producers of The Apprentice, and perhaps NBC, be held liable for all of the sexual harassment they apparently were aware of being perpetrated by their contract employee?

Jupiter said...

Jon Burack said...
"The amount of crap here on this from the Trump apologists is astounding. As for Cacimbo Cacimbo's clever little ploy, his "when is a locker room not a locker room: defense, sorry. Let me clarify. I grew up in a gritty east coast factory town full of very gritty blacks, Italians, Poles and old time WASPs. Largely lower and lower-middle class working people. ALL of them were thrown together inside my high school. I worked with them in restaurants and factories and for the Dept. of Public Works, and played baseball with them. In all of those settings, as well as out in the "have a nice day" Midwest once I came out here in 1965, in ALL that time and in every setting, I never heard any two men discuss their actual behavior with women in the way Trump did in that tape. If you have, I would say it is YOU, not I, who need to get out a bit more and find out what the real world is like."


Like, What color is the sky on your planet, Dude?

AReasonableMan said...

Original Mike said...
But "all men" do not talk like that. Or maybe, as Roughcoat said, it's a midwestern thing.


It is largely an age thing. Many men over 60 of any class talk like that, probably not devout Christians. Under 60 it becomes increasingly less common and probably more class related, hair metal, rap. Obviously teenage boys remain much the same as ever, but there is much stronger socialization towards respecting women's opinions as they mature than there was when 70 year old men were growing up. I don't think this is a bad thing. I agree with R&B that it could turn into an anti-sex crusade but this doesn't seem to have happened (based on my son's experiences). I find this kind of talk offensive and have walked out on the very few occasions when older men started talking like this in front of me. I have never heard someone my own age or younger who wasn't in the entertainment industry talk like this. Raunchy sexist talk is a bit like violence, largely experienced vicariously these days.

I kind of give Trump a pass on this - old, in the entertainment industry, rich, famous, entitled, spoilt. You can't reasonably have high expectations for that demographic.

Kevin said...

If a Democrat had made these remarks, the media would have panel after panel discussing the meaning of "pussy" in this particular social and cultural context.

Ultimately those in the public who took offense would be told they had applied the incorrect definition, due to their lack of education and a myriad of cultural biases.

Honor to the candidate would be restored and the American public would be reminded how it is truly the source of the nation's ills. They should take care in the future to let all such judgments originate from our leaders in Washington.

Appropriate funding would then flow to the groups deemed to have been slighted during the debate, all of them related to causes linked to the Democratic Party.

EDH said...

It wasn't a locker room. It was the TV equivalent of a tour bus.

Listen sometime to the misanthropic (much less misogynistic) banter of the road crew on a tour bus, who view themselves as low on the sexual food chain as they go city to city in proximity to the biggest names in entertainment.

Here's sensitive Tom Hanks on "Wayne's World" with Aerosmith portraying one.

Wayne: Garth, take a ritelin, man! Alright, Barry - you're a roadie, right? It must be Chick Central for you, right?

Garth: Yeah! You must be a citizen of Babe-ylon!

Hanks/Barry: Well.. yeah.. uh.. we get our share of the babes.. But, you know, you don't have a lot of time, and there's a lot of people to consider.. I mean, there's the band, there's the sound guy, there's the lighting crew, there's management, there's tour co-ordinators, the record company.. and then, of course, us, the roadies.

Wayne: Okay.. so, what you're saying is that roadies are the bottom feeders in the Great Babe Food Chain. Right? [ Garth can't control his laughter ]

Hanks/Barry: Uh.. that is not what I'm saying, Wayne! I mean, come on.. there's a ton of chicks who would rather go out with roadies than with the band.

Wayne: Shyeah, right! And, later on, monkeys might fly out of my butt!

ddh said...

Now that I'm retired, I am spending more time at the gym. Men don't talk like that in locker rooms. They just don't. Trump's a creep, who I think has lost his chance to be elected.

Paul Ciotti said...

I've never heard anyone talk like this, least ways since i got out of college. None of my friends talk this way. Even when I was in a Navy patrol squadron no one talked this way. Adult men don't talk this way because they'd be talking about their mothers, wives and daughters. Callow youngsters yes. But they too grow up.

mockturtle said...

Miley Cyrus denounces Trump for "sexist objectifying of women.

I expect Madonna, paragon of feminine virtue, to be weighing in, as well.

David said...

This is the way SOME men talk when they are along with men. By any large the "SOME" includes the insecure, the braggadocios, the simply crude and the young. It is also the way some men talk in intimacy with other men, revealing the impact of lust, bad judgment and general craziness on their conduct. In such cases it is not necessarily bragging. I don't think Trump's talk with Billy Bush fits into the intimacy/confessional mode. It was crude immature guy talk, which is quite different than typical guy talk. All guys are not like that, and excusing Trump on that basis is sexist.

All of that said, it does not seem to me that this quote, even if there are more like it, is in itself disqualifying for the presidency. But it does resonate given the other Trump traits like impulsivity, conceit/pride and carelessness that are already revealed. Also it arises in the atmosphere of selective censoriousness that infuses the society. War killing is bad. Abortion killing is ok. Fact is, both war and abortion are legal, but certain groups react vastly differently to each. Etc, etc.

I don't think Trump's conduct/speech is nearly as bad as suggesting a droning of an inconvenient leaker (a statement not on tape), or lying about conduct that endangered state secrets (conduct not officially punishable in the case of the particular perpetrator) or the general corrupt and illegal conduct that Clinton has engaged in for decades. But these are deniable. Clinton denies them, and a large and supposedly neutral apparatus allows the lie to be largely unchallenged. Trump is on tape and acknowledges his sin (sort of.)

Thus we select our leaders in this time. Of these two unimpressive people, the one with the currently politically correct ideas and the establishment support is now very likely to win. She may not end up being the worst President we have ever had, but I can't think of a worse candidate. Yet she will be elected and the resilience of American politics and society will be tested again. What can stop this race to the bottom?

walter said...

Calling it "locker room talk" misses that this was all about status. But yes..could all be about something he never did himself.
And if he did, we will be hearing from/about those victims soon..maybe tonite.

Rusty said...

All you ladies about done with this horseshit?

walter said...

Ann should be able to get another dozen posts out of this...

Rollo Tomasi said...

The faux outrage from Althouse is noted. When she finally acts worried about Bill Clintons dalliances and Hillary's attempts to squash the women who were affected by this then maybe the sincerity will be noted.

Paul said...

"his is the way SOME men talk when they are along with men. By any large the "SOME" includes the insecure, the braggadocios, the simply crude and the young. It is also the way some men talk in intimacy with other men, revealing the impact of lust, bad judgment and general craziness on their conduct."

Another virtue signalling white knight jumps in. I've personally known guys that talk like this who are not only not insecure but have and endless stream of hot women after them. One guy in particular got every one of his many conquests to pose for split beaver shots for his photo collection. Girls that you would never imagine would do this. His magnetism and alpha status proved irresistible to just about every woman. It was an eye opening experience watching this guy work.

Richard Feynman has a section in his book "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!: Adventures of a Curious Character", where he learns how to pick up women. You white knights and cucks should read it in order to be disabused of your naive fem-centric notions about women.

themightypuck said...

If you believe pointing out that many men say things in private similar to Trump validates pomo feminist ideology, you already believed in it anyway. The goal isn't to make men all nice and shit. It is to convince women that even if men aren't all nice and shit, modern pomo feminist ideology is nonsense.

readering said...

Defining deviance down down down
Personally I thought what he said in the present about the
Central Park 5 was worse. Talk about invincible ignorance and careless malice.

Writ Small said...

I've certainly heard men talk highly sexually about women in private. Duh. But I have to say I've never heard a man brag about his success with other men's wives. The geniuses who foisted Trump upon us are fond of calling Republicans who oppose Trump "cucks" - a revealingly racist taunt. It is they, however, who seem all too willing to turn their wives over to men like Trump.

buwaya puti said...

Very good point about Feynman.
He wouldnt have lasted a year in the modern academy.
Which says a lot more about the academy than Feynman.

Michael said...

Anti fraternity logic, indeed. We are headed the other way, dear lady.

SukieTawdry said...

"Trying to validate the anti-fraternity ideology of feminists"? I'm guessing most men care less about feminist ideology than even I do, which is saying something.

Of all the possible consequences of this incident, the most inconsequential would be the validation of feminist ideology. It's hardly, if at all, worth considering.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

@Bob Ellison
How often have you heard men in the locker room talk that way? Do you have recordings?
As the only female in a van full of male cops I often heard talk like that. I would add that I heard just as much sexism in the female locker room, although usually with less vulgarity. Absolutely no recordings. Nor would I want any. At times I contributed to the conversation. Like Miss Universe - I ain't no saint girl. I believe the cops talked more freely (20yrs ago) than they would now. However, I heard plenty of raunchy talk from the suit crowd prior to becoming a cop. Does no one recall the many Wall St sex scandals over the years - with hookers in the workplace.

@Jon Burack Sorry, but agree with Jupiter: "What color is the sky on your planet, Dude?"
Do you ever turn on the radio? Songs about oral sex and rape are common. Sorry, but the idea most people are speaking more demurely in private than the what we hear/see on radio and tv is not believable.

AReasonman has a point. I do see a big difference it how younger men speak and treat women from older men. Also a big difference in the girls. From what I hear in grades 6-12 it is often the girls who are the sexual aggressors.

walter said...

"cucks" - a revealingly racist taunt
--
How so?

AReasonableMan said...

readering said...
Personally I thought what he said in the present about the Central Park 5 was worse.


I agree with this. It was racist bullshit and it shows that incontrovertible facts do not influence his opinions. The second problem being even more damning in a presidential candidate. This was the low point of Trump's political career to date. I have more generally been surprised by Trump's lack of mental flexibility. I had expected more. It suggest that he has been mentally cruising for much of his later life rather than fully engaged. As awful as the typical political is, as both a human being and a moral presence in the world, they are generally fully engaged, or no longer a politician.

boycat said...

I don't know about locker rooms and excuses, my take on it all is that it was Trump being pretty much like I imagined he is, and a kerfuffle over Trump being Trump is much ado about nothing.

n.n said...

in grades 6-12 it is often the girls who are the sexual aggressors

A behavior engendered by natural and social causes that followed a progressive path with the normalization of an ideology and quasi-religion that avoids reconciliation of moral, natural, and personal imperatives.

Mac McConnell said...

The intellectual and moral dilemma isn't that hard, Trump's dirty talk verses Hillary's corruption.

William said...

I'm beginning to to rethink my support of Trump now that Miley Cyrus has come out against him. It's difficult to stand straight against such cultural headwinds.......I think I'm about as insecure and immature about sex as any man alive. Nonetheless, I don't ever remember talking about women in such a way. If I were giving Trump advice, I would tell him to own it, to announce that his past sexual behavior was crude and exploitative. He could add that he has never been accused of rape or leaving women to drown, but he should own the simple fact that he was wrong in his treatment of women. But he should go on from there to tell the voters that they have a choice of scandals, his or Hillary's. Then he could get into Hillary's lies about open borders, handling of confidential information, Benghazi, bimbo eruptions, Whitewater, et al........I don't think he will win this election, but I hope he loses in an edifying and informative way.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Miley Cyrus denounces Trump for "sexist objectifying of women.


10/9/16, 2:08 PM

She twerked her disapproval.

Roughcoat said...

All you ladies done with this horseshit?

From where the sun now stands I will fight no more forever.

SukieTawdry said...

Let the men have a place where they get together and be disgusting without women having to hear it! More speech!

Precisely. After all, don't men deserve their own safe spaces where they can candidly express themselves without fear of consequence or reprisal?

Original Mike said...

"After all, don't men deserve their own safe spaces where they can candidly express themselves without fear of consequence or reprisal?"

Of course, those would be illegal now.

gadfly said...

Three formal accusations of rape against Trump have found their way into courtrooms. Ivana Trump, during her divorce hearings, Jill Harth whose husband had entered into a business association with Trump dropped her rape lawsuit when a concurrent settlement filed by her husband for another reason was settled out-of-court. Finally the Jane Doe filing against Trump and Jeffrey Epstein for rape while she was 13 - which is still being reviewed in New York Federal Court.

Before the latest tape, Trump told Howard Stern that he was lucky to never have contracted venereal disease with all his "sleeping" around. So he brags about his conquests but Trumpsters don't want to believe him to be unfit for office. I, for one, think he has always been mysogynistic. Women who vote for him simply will do so only because they have not heard any of the bare essentials of these events.

So who thinks that tonight's town hall and subsequent Democratic ads supported by the drive-by media will no explore all this bad stuff? Tonight's the night fot Trump to withdraw and to recommend RNC action on substituting Mike Pence. If he does not, he will come away from this fiasco with far less honor than Richard Nixon did. We have 30 days to right this wrong, else we could see impeachment action should he win (which I doubt, because you can get by with a race charge but sexism against woment will not fly).

boycat said...

This has all the markings of a manufactured and coordinated attack to take Trump out. It's fun watching all the faux outrage being ginned up and seeing who gets fooled by it. Wisconsinites seem highly susceptible.

HT said...

Administrator said...

Funny. NBC didn't have any problems with Trump when he was still a Democrat and getting paid 7 figures to appear on their reality show...

Strange, no?
10/9/16, 12:03 PM
________
No, it is not strange. All along I have been saying that Trump is the D and Hillary is the R.

walter said...

Seems like tonight will feature a prop when the inevitable is asked.

Birkel said...

When - in four years of a Hillary Clinton Administration - the economy does not grow and more Middle Easterners and Central Americans are imported, and centralized control is strengthened, and the Courts are weaponized alongside the IRS, DOJ, FBI, EPA, Treasury and etc., all of you who have wasted so much time on these matters will receive no quarter from me.

Althouse is voting for the destruction of the country, as she did in 2008. I wish she could be forced to witness the destruction she seeks for us.

Darrell said...

Feminists engage in their own NYC pissing contests. They sit around telling horror stories about men and being the victim. They all try to top each other. Most know the other women are exaggerating details, but it's herstory. She is in control. In the male NYC pissing contests, guys usually say "You are full of shit" during the other guy's brag. They also laugh. There is no laughter in the feminist version.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I wish she could be forced to witness the destruction she seeks for us.

10/9/16, 3:52 PM

Oh, I think she will. The smug white professionals of Madison will not be safe forever.

Fernandinande said...

Writ Small said...
But I have to say I've never heard a man brag about his success with other men's wives.


Me neither. But I did hear a tape of some guy "bragging" about his failure.

The geniuses who foisted Trump upon us are fond of calling Republicans who oppose Trump "cucks" - a revealingly racist taunt.

Not really. "Cuck" is derived from "cuckold". I take "cuckservative" to mean a closet liberal, polically correct, weak from all that pandering, and foolish...having been fooled big time.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Wisconsinites seem highly susceptible.

10/9/16, 3:33 PM

Not all of us. Ryan was booed and heckled at a rally yesterday.

HT said...

Darrell said...

Feminists engage in their own NYC pissing contests. They sit around telling horror stories about men and being the victim. They all try to top each other. Most know the other women are exaggerating details, but it's herstory. She is in control. In the male NYC pissing contests, guys usually say "You are full of shit" during the other guy's brag. They also laugh. There is no laughter in the feminist version.
10/9/16, 3:54 PM

________

There's guys and feminists. Got it. No women talk about being the victim, only "feminists."

Clayton Hennesey said...

Q: How can I get started in blogging?

A: Post ridiculous claims like "the Earth is flat", taunting commenters to prove you wrong ("Nuh-uh! Way back in ancient Greece Pythagoras was saying..."), thus driving up your click and comment counts and the amount you earn from any advertising.


Q: In the imaginarium that is blogging, what would drawing crude cartoon rats on a smart phone screen look like if it were written out as a prose blog post?

A: Relentless posts about Donald Trump being forced to withdraw because of "criminal sexual assault" - not criminal sexual assault against a particular real woman at any real particular time, but ideational criminal sexual assault against womanhood in general.

Please vote in the poll thoughtfully offered as a palate cleanser to all this political talk: which criminal sexual assault of general womanhood outrages you the most? Vote A for Grabby or vote B for Snatchy.

Jupiter said...

Writ Small said...
"I've certainly heard men talk highly sexually about women in private. Duh."

Whoa! Another voice from The Planet Where The Sky Is Blue!

"But I have to say I've never heard a man brag about his success with other men's wives."

In fact, if you were paying attention, you might have noticed that Trump was telling a story about his *lack* of success with another man's wife. The joke was on him. He took her furniture-shopping, hoping to get laid, but all he got was some ideas for the living rooms in his next condo project.

This is a fairly well-executed humble-brag. He makes himself the butt of the joke, inviting his listener to laugh at his horndog foolishness. At the same time, he makes it clear that he is a guy who was gets a lot of strange.

For the many, many commenters here who have never heard such language employed, "gets a lot of strange" means, has sex with many women, outside of committed relationships. And yes, there are men who not only do that, but are proud of it. Here on The Planet Where The Sky Is Blue.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I take "cuckservative" to mean a closet liberal, polically correct, weak from all that pandering, and foolish...having been fooled big time."

I've understood "cuck" as meaning a white male liberal who stays silent or agrees when feminists and minority activists accuse white men of being responsible for every evil on the planet. "White men invented slavery! White men oppress women! White men have to rid themselves of their toxic masculinity!"

White liberal males don't defend Western Civilization - they apologize for it.And they believe their groveling self-abasement and white-knighting makes them morally superior to the deplorables.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Ann, women say deplorably lamentable things in private, also.

But you knew that. You are a woman, right?

Right?

rehajm said...

It's like you are *trying* to validate the anti feminist rants of rhhardin.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Men don't say coarse things to each other in locker rooms any more, I'm told.

Instead they skip off to the bathroom together while out for fancy dinners with their wives, and gossip there.

At any point are you going to ever tire of this shit, Professor? We can play this game back-and-forth until the republic rots. As exiledonmainstreet says, we are driving the country into the ground with these distractions. Actually important things need to be done.

heyboom said...

Locker room talk is not the exclusive province of the male species.

Jon Burack said...

Jupiter,

I've got to wonder why someone would do me the honor of reprinting my entire post and then simply confirming its overall point with a comment as lame as: "Like, What color is the sky on your planet, Dude?"

As to Cacimbo Cacimbo, you are exactly wrong. It is BECAUSE people do not actually speak like the lyrics in certain kinds of more demented pop music that explains the appeal, such as it is, of such music - and also why that music is so sterile and detached from reality these days. The greatest music of any kind doesn't take those cheap shots because of how empty-headed and UNREAL they are. Knopfler, Dire Straits, does have a good one about men like Trump in that video - "Where Do You Think You're Going?" But its ABOUT, not any sort of imitation. Menace, that's all it amounts to. You do not have to be some idiot feminist fanatic to see that.

Where do you think you're going?
Don't you know it's dark outside?
Where do you think you're going?
Don't you care about my pride?

Jupiter said...

Jon Burack said...
"Jupiter,

I've got to wonder why someone would do me the honor of reprinting my entire post and then simply confirming its overall point with a comment as lame as: "Like, What color is the sky on your planet, Dude?"

It did seem a bit strange, to copy the whole thing. But I couldn't seem to find a good place to stop. It was not any particular detail of your comment that proved beyond a doubt that you are not relaying true information about the planet Earth. Rather, it is the scrupulous care you took to rule out any of the possible explanations for your anomalous experience.

But wait! I think I see it! You are deaf, right? Of course! That's why you have never heard what goes on all around you on a daily basis. You can't hear anything! I humbly apologize, Jon-without-the-H. If you had just mentioned that detail, I would not have questioned your veracity. How thoughtless of me.

John said...

Let's do a hypothetical:

A woman, call her Ann (just a random name), of a certain number of years goes to a concert. While there, a scruffy, mid-70's, man comes up and grabs her by the snatch. I suspect that this woman would react as most women do. She would slap the man, scream bloody murder and go looking for the cops to press charges for indecent exposure.

Same woman is backstage at a Bob Dylan concert. Bob comes up and grabs her snatch. What his her reaction? Is she going to cause a scene about BOB DYLAN! Who found her attractive enough to grope?

She may be surprised but many women, provided it is the right celebrity, will feel honored to be groped like that.

This is why Bill Clinton was able to sodomize Monica Lewinski in the Oval Office. She would not have permitted that from just anyone. But Bill Clinton was a STAR! You don't get much higher in the celebrity pantheon than the President of the US, leader of the free world. That, and that alone, is why she allowed Bill Clinton to put his dick in her mouth.

Trump is absolutely right, celebrities can get away with this because many women are starfuckers. (Or plastercasters in an earlier time) or Groupies ow whatever you want to call them. Not all women, probably not even a majority of women. Enough of them that the right celebrity can go up to them and say "How about suck my dick in the back room?" and get an affirmative "Let's go."

The sanctimony on this is appalling.

I predict that in the end it is another big wet fart like his tax returns, the 170# Ms Universe, McCain comments, the Cruz comments and all the other gotchas that have been pulled out against Trump in the past 18 months.

John Henry

John said...

Case in point:

A mother, who wanted to be a starfucker herself but didn't have what it took, let Roman Polanski anally rape her 13 year old daughter.

He wound up getting away with it.

And Ann seemed and seems to be fine with it. After all, Roman Polanski is great artiste and a great artiste can be forgiven anything.

It's not like Polanski actually said anything vulgar. Actions are OK. Words seem problematic.

John Henry

Terry said...

At the debate tonight, I believe that Hillary should show her solidarity with modern feminists by wearing huge dildo earrings and crotch-grabbing Huma.
Take that, Donald!

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Case in point:

A mother, who wanted to be a starfucker herself but didn't have what it took, let Roman Polanski anally rape her 13 year old daughter.

He wound up getting away with it.

And Ann seemed and seems to be fine with it. After all, Roman Polanski is great artiste and a great artiste can be forgiven anything.

It's not like Polanski actually said anything vulgar. Actions are OK. Words seem problematic.

John Henry

10/9/16, 5:48 PM"

Search the Roman Polanski tag John. Do not give validation to accusations of wobbly nodules rusting credence Sir.

Char Char Binks said...

John said...

"And Ann seemed and seems to be fine with it. After all, Roman Polanski is great artiste and a great artiste can be forgiven anything."

It's deplorable that AA didn't personally hunt down Polanski and bring him to justice. Shame on you, Ann Althouse!

mockturtle said...

According to Wikipedia [with references]:

In March 1977, film director Roman Polanski was arrested and charged in Los Angeles with five offenses against Samantha Gailey a 13-year-old girl[1] – rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance to a minor.[2] At his arraignment Polanski pleaded not guilty to all charges,[3] but later accepted a plea bargain whose terms included dismissal of the five initial charges[4] in exchange for a guilty plea to the lesser charge of engaging in unlawful sexual intercourse.[4][5]

Polanski underwent a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation,[6] and a report was submitted to the court recommending probation.[7] However, upon learning that he was likely to face imprisonment and deportation,[5][8] Polanski fled to France in February 1978, hours before he was to be formally sentenced.[9] Since then Polanski has mostly lived in France and has avoided visiting countries likely to extradite him to the United States.

Jon Ericson said...

AJ Lynch said... [hush]​[hide comment]
Locker room barroom pool hall classroom coffee shop....yes this is the way men sometimes talk about women. WTF Althouse are you really this dense or cloistered in academia.

10/9/16, 12:37 PM

Naw, she's trying to boost her bona fides with the folks she is going to be schmoozing with in her retirement.
NWO fans are as thick as thieves in Wisconson.
Cultists.
Harmless.

Jonathan Graehl said...

there's no worse overreach of feminists than the attempted destruction of fraternal organizations

Jonathan Graehl said...

older, intelligent women like althouse have seen some shit. you have to excuse the paranoia

her strain of vulnerability to feminist tropes will die out; smart young woman in the majority-female graduating classes of high school and universities will be invulnerable except as they're self-serving and/or delusional

it's not as though men have to stop wanting to fuck women in order for women to be liberated, is it?

maybe the unattractive colleague you ghosted at the bar at the conference will still value your professional work fairly. or maybe he'll be generous in his thirst.

sex happens.

Rusty said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
"Ann, women say deplorably lamentable things in private, also."

In my experience they are far more crude, vindictive, and mean.

madAsHell said...

1. I've heard such comments in the locker room, and "grabbing pussy" is a fairly tame comment.
2. If Trump is offensive, then who in the hell bought all those copies of "50 Shades of Gray"?

Jon Ericson said...

I was thinking of Althouse's exceptional perceiving powers vs. cant.
Havin' more buddies is more important.
Lotsa unicorn buddies.
"Let's turn this blog into what it was supposed to be"

madAsHell said...

Arrrghhh.....If women are offended, then who in the hell bought all those copies......

Jonathan Graehl said...

i wouldn't say all women are starfuckers

just the ones attractive enough a star would want to fuck

Jon Ericson said...

Back in the sixties-seventies I was in a band.
Certain women would throw themselves at me.
Usually, my current hometown squeeze would tour with us.
Kept the S.T.D. rates way down.

Joe said...

Make no mistake, what Trump said is disgusting. However, how one reacts in the context of the election says a lot about their ideology. In short, liberals react more strongly to what someone says versus what they do.

Andrew Pardue said...

Don't women have for lack of a better word "locker room" talk, I was thinking about this when the following song popped up on my iPhone.

The Runaways Cherry Bomb
Can't stay at home, can't stay at school
Old folks say, ya poor little fool
Down the street I'm the girl next door
I'm the fox you've been waiting for

Hello Daddy, hello Mom
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb
Hello world I'm your wild girl
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb

Stone age love and strange sounds too
Come on baby let me get to you
Bad nights cause'n teenage blues
Get down ladies you've got nothing to lose

Hello Daddy, hello Mom
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb
Hello world I'm your wild girl
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb

Hello Daddy, hello Mom
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb
Hello world I'm your wild girl
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb

Hey street boy, what's your style
Your dead end dreams don't make you smile
I'll give ya something to live for
Have ya, grab ya til you're sore


Hello Daddy, hello Mom
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb
Hello world, I'm your wild girl
I'm your ch ch ch ch ch cherry bomb

Cherry bomb
Cherry bomb
Cherry bomb
Cherry bomb
Cherry bomb


None of this makes what Trump said ok but can't women be raunchy when they want to. I seem to remember during an awards program Whoopi Goldberg treating a microphone like it was a phallus and stroking it on air.

The Runaways Cherry Bomb