September 11, 2016

"We have seen their kind before. They're the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century."

"By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies."

36 comments:

Sharc said...

Morning Ann. Thanks for that reminder. I miss him.

gspencer said...

We have seen their kind before. They're [meaning Muslims] the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions [as set out by Mohammad in his Quran], by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism."

This is a little backward. Those "murderous" 20th ideologies (ideologies which in point of history had been inflicted on the world long before the 20th century) are, if anything, the heirs of Islam which began its murderous rampage throughout history in the early part of the 7th century. And which endures to this day.

The politicians refuse to say or even acknowledge it, but,

the problem is ISLAM.

Ann Althouse said...

@gspencer

You should limit your observation to a subset of Muslims, not to the entire gigantic category of people. There are mainstream Muslims who are good, peaceful citizens, and smearing them is stupid and disgusting.

Don't be "grossly generalistic."

Humperdink said...

"the problem is ISLAM."

And we are inviting them in ....... by the thousands. What could possibly go wrong?

With Obama retiring at such a age, I often wonder what his his reaction will be when multiple US cities resemble Paris after multiple attacks. Attacks led by the immigrants he graciously invited to join us.

Humperdink said...

Don't be "grossly generalistic."

You're misunderestimating the problem.

Ann Althouse said...

President Bush set a good example. He never took an anti-Muslim attitude.

And what would Jesus do?

AllenS said...

I don't know what Jesus would do, but his Dad did a thing on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Chimps prosecute raiding warfare.

They got started soon after they brushed up on all those murderous ideologies of the 20th century.

David Begley said...

Two points.

1. Jesus was a religious leader; not a political leader. Mohammed was a political and warlord. Apples and oranges. Jesus was about peace. Recall him replacing the Roman soldier's ear after Peter cut it off.

This is the major difference between Islam and Christianity.

2. The problem is we don't exactly know how many Muslims want to kill and conquer us. We see surveys on how many agree with Sharia and how many thought 9-11 was a good thing. Let's say it is 2%. Two percent of 1 billion is 20 million. Ten percent is 100 million. Total US population is 330 million.

Jason said...

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Pope Benedict II, then Rev. Ratzinger. But he was quoting from a 14th century dialogue between Emperor Manuel II Paleologus of Byzantium and a Persian Islamic scholar.


Fast forward to today: When push comes to shove, a sizable minority of Muslims in the west support terrorism. Somewhere between about 25 to 33 percent of Muslims have told Pew pollers that they believe Islamic terrorism is justified. And that's among westerners. They aren't terrorists, but they are the sea in which the guerrilla swims.

So it's pretty dumb to underestimate the danger that Islam poses to the West. But they are also the key to rooting out and destroying the radical elements that are actually willing to carry out terrorist acts.

Just as the UK could not defeat the IRA without cooperation from the Irish, Muslims are also the key to defeating and destroying Islamic terrorism. We cannot do it without them.

n.n said...

It's a choice.

YoungHegelian said...

We have seen their kind before. They're the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.

I understand why President Bush said these words when he did. He spoke to rally his people to the arduous tasks that he knew lay before them. It was not a history lesson.

But, there is a time for history lessons & what they can teach us. "Fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism" were not seen by their adherents as amoral visions of the Will to Power. They were seen as redemptive ideologies, last-ditch attempts to save what their adherents saw as the worthiest of causes from ruin. Nobody sat down & said "I've got an idea -- let's all be evil!".

That's the problem. Our worthiest impulses often cover for & breed our greatest evils. So it is with Islam.

When the Devil hands us a shit sandwich, he always makes sure that it not only has a slice of cheese, but that the cheese is the finest imported French cheese available.

traditionalguy said...

But mainstream Muslims are the ones who are dedicated to hating and smearing Americans. Proclaiming Religion of Peace, Religion of Peace, when there is no peace may work for a while, until the other shoe drops.

tim in vermont said...

It would be cool if these lies were actually discarded and left for dead, but instead, they get dug up generation after generation, and the young accuse the old for not believing in their beautiful truth.

Paul Snively said...

David Begley @ 6:49 and YoungHegelian @ 7:39 nail it, and I take no pleasure in the observation.

At some point, the number of "peaceful X" is irrelevant, and even the question of "how many of them would do evil" runs afoul of YoungHegelian's point. Just earlier this year, I participated at a conference that a clique of SJWs tried to shut down because one of the other presenters had written some neo-reactionary political material under a pseudonym years before. Among the SJWs were literal big-C Communists, at least one of whom had written publicly of his desire to see landlords sent to forced labor camps. Rest assured, he thinks he's one of the good guys.

If this is anywhere near correct, then we do, in fact, need a radical realignment of our understanding of the nature of the threat. Simply repeating "most Muslims are peaceful" platitudes is non-responsive.

Humperdink said...

"And what would Jesus do?"

Good question professor. Since you brought it up, I believe Jesus gave us the power of discernment. "You will know them by their fruits." The fruits of these folks are measured in body counts.

Now I could be wrong here. Maybe the idea of bringing over middle eastern immigrants is a good idea. I spoke with one of our missionaries and posed the M. E. immigrant question to him. He responded that it is a whole easier to witness to followers of Islam over here than in the M.E..

gspencer said...

AA,

That "mainstream [set of] Muslims who are good, peaceful citizens" read, take their religious guidance from, and are informed by the very same Quran that those who act on the Quran's EXPRESS instructions to subdue the non-Muslim, with particular enmity towards the Jew.

Surely you're familiar with the Verses of the Sword, Suras 9:5 and 9:29? I need not retail the many other Quranic instructions on how Muslims are told how they are to treat the non-Muslim. Robert Spencer has ably done that on numerous occasions.

And who can tell when one of those "good, peaceful [Muslim] citizens" will suddenly go "full Muslim" (as in going "full postal"). News reports are filled with stories of heretofore peaceful Muslims who, after reading all those Quran verses, decide to take their political religion very seriously. Sudden Jihad Syndrome has become quite common.

David Begley said...

Paul Snively

I don't know that Islam can ever be reformed. It seems impervious to modernization. Secularization isn't working. And then, of course, there is the consanguinity problem; intermarriage between cousins for generations which leads to all sorts of problems. And since this is the Althouse blog there is a whole lot of sexual dysfunction in the Muslim culture starting with FGM and the burka.

We first need to completely and utterly destroy the military elements like ISIS. Hillary won't do it. And Obama made the worst mistake in American history when he paid Iran cash to develop nukes. This unforced error will haunt the US for centuries.

David Begley said...

Paul Snively

And I forget to add an important observation from an Afghanistan war veteran: Flush toilets. Muslims need flush toilets. It will solve lots of their dysfunction. Ship'em direct from Kohler in Wisconsin.

exiledonmainstreet said...

And who can tell when one of those "good, peaceful [Muslim] citizens" will suddenly go "full Muslim" (as in going "full postal"). News reports are filled with stories of heretofore peaceful Muslims who, after reading all those Quran verses, decide to take their political religion very seriously. Sudden Jihad Syndrome has become quite common.


9/11/16, 8:43 AM

This is true and it is a very worrisome pattern. If a young Muslim man has been enjoying all the hedonistic pleasures the West has to offer and feels empty and dissatisfied with his life, terrorism offers a way to redemption - kill a bunch of infidels and all is forgiven by Allah. It's why the 9/11 terrorists had no qualms about hanging around strip clubs shortly before they did their terrible deed.

Yes, yes, Christians also, in the past, committed violence in the name of Jesus. But violence against the unbeliever runs counter to what Christ taught. It is baked into the DNA of Islam.

Big Mike said...

This post is quite a contrast with yesterday's discussion of boobs and butts. And I suppose tomorrow Althouse and Meade and Jaltcoh and most of the rest of us will be back to thinking about trivialities like Lady Gaga's ass.

What will it take to settle this once and for all? I don't think it's going to involve worrying about the alleged "99.9%" but I can be persuaded that I'm wrong. However I think George Bush did wrong in not immediately attacking Saudi Arabia, pumping their desert dry of oil, destroying every Wahabbi mosque, and charging a $10,000 head tax for everyone on the hadj to Mecca. Like Sherman in Georgia, you win by proving that you can go anywhere and do anything and no one can stop you.

Birkel said...

Is it ok to blame the victim some of the time?

Because some of what I read does exactly that. I will leave it to the discerning reader to consider who the victims are.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cf said...

The Hand of Most High Good blessed america on 9/11/2001 by arranging for it to be led by George Bush, Dick Cheney and all the rest of them.

They responded in the biggest, most articulate ways, exactly right. I don't care what anyone says now -- brain-damaged from too much NPRnews -- George Bush was a great president.

I remember especially being thankful in those following days that Al pitypants Gore wasn't fussybutting through the role. Thank G*d:

I lift my coffee cup and toast this day: May the Boddhi light, that ever-present pull of Most High Good to every soul, be calling in and through us all now.

Cheers (clink!) and
Godspeed, America

YoungHegelian said...

@cf,

So, now we're getting blessed by Jewish Buddhists?

mockturtle said...

@gspencerThis is a little backward. Those "murderous" 20th ideologies (ideologies which in point of history had been inflicted on the world long before the 20th century) are, if anything, the heirs of Islam which began its murderous rampage throughout history in the early part of the 7th century. And which endures to this day.

The politicians refuse to say or even acknowledge it, but,

the problem is ISLAM.


'Fraid so.

mockturtle said...

Young Hegelian has wisely stated: But, there is a time for history lessons & what they can teach us. "Fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism" were not seen by their adherents as amoral visions of the Will to Power. They were seen as redemptive ideologies, last-ditch attempts to save what their adherents saw as the worthiest of causes from ruin. Nobody sat down & said "I've got an idea -- let's all be evil!".

Most people just don't get this. I have known a lot of Muslims--all very nice people. Do they believe that:
1. Israel must be destroyed
2. The world will be better off under the rule of Islamic law.?
You betcha! While most don't participate in violent jihad, their sentiments are with the global goal.

mockturtle said...

When the Devil hands us a shit sandwich, he always makes sure that it not only has a slice of cheese, but that the cheese is the finest imported French cheese available.

Well said, YG!

mockturtle said...

"And what would Jesus do?"

He was none too kind to the Pharisees, was he? He called them fools, snakes and children of the devil.

YoungHegelian said...

@mockturtle,

When the Devil hands us a shit sandwich, he always makes sure that it not only has a slice of cheese, but that the cheese is the finest imported French cheese available.

Well said, YG!


I'm becoming quite the Lamarr of the philosophical set!

"Aporia!? Don't tell me nuthin' about your pussy-ass aporia, muthafucker!"

Guildofcannonballs said...

I would sooner be a dog with rabies than Islamic.

If people can't figure out why, they are blinded by self-righteousness because other people, almost all men, fight and die allowing for childhood living for those not fighting, which is a very cruelly neutral living until it's not.

D'Souza's Hillary's America does a superb job of showing how Leftists (criminal killers) repeat the same grift over and over and over as it is truly all their comprehension of life will allow.

Lie and steal, kill, always demand everyone praise you as martyred for being so gosh darn helpful to folks, as helpful as Kubrick wanted McDowell to be in A Clockwork Orange.

People's egos make them fall for these same demon-inspired anti-Christs one after another without end.

mockturtle said...

Jill Stein is at least calling out the Saudis for their complicity in terrorism by funding al-Qaida and ISIS.

mockturtle said...

As Lawrence Wright has chronicled in his excellent book, The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11, the Islamists have been studying our nation [and other Western nations] for many decades, largely from within. They have concluded that our freedom has led us into decadence and weakness and that we lack the will to defeat their plan for world redemption through Islamic law, an inevitable [to them] outcome. The Muslims I knew in college [I dated a Kuwaiti and got to know his friends very well] and those with whom I later worked, were all very nice people! That fact and the fact that they are dangerously misguided does not mitigate the fervor of their beliefs.

Paul Snively said...

mockturtle: He was none too kind to the Pharisees, was he? He called them fools, snakes and children of the devil.

My personal favorite: "whitened" (that is, literally, whitewashed) "sepulchers." Pristine and shiny on the outside; rotting, decaying, stinking on the inside.

Rhythm and Balls said...

President Bush set a good example. He never took an anti-Muslim attitude.

And what would Jesus do?


Submit to crucifixion.

Exactly as many Christians across the middle east are doing right now.

There is no way to confront this problem without challenging the fundamental religious doctrine behind it.

Mountain Maven said...

I am forever greatful to Pres. Bush because he fought for his country when we were attacked. His opponents still don't have it them to fight for our country.