September 16, 2016

"Donald Trump, Sex Pistol/The punk-rock appeal of the GOP nominee."

A clickbait title good enough to get me — a staunch clickbait resister — to click through to The Atlantic, and I'm going to encourage you to click through because the illustration — by Diego Patiño — is really good.

The article is by James Parker, who regularly writes about music, so the Sex Pistols talk is more than just shallow goofiness. Parker begins by talking about the impression Stravinsky’s "Sacre du Printemps" made in Paris in 1913, then shifts to 1976, when The Sex Pistols went on British daytime TV live:
The beery drawl of Pistols guitarist Steve Jones filters louchely from the TV set: “You dirty fucker,” he says to the host, Bill Grundy. Then he reconsiders: “What a fucking rotter.”...
Wait. You don't need to rely on Parker's literary stylings — louchely, whatever —  to visualize the occasion. It's on YouTube:



But what's Parker's point here? Is Donald Trump like The Sex Pistols because he goes on TV and talks to his interviewers in a way they're not used to and that busts up their game? Well, sort of. Parker says he's that and simultaneously the guy watching at home getting pissed off at the Pistols, because he's using a "transgressive, volatile, carnivalesque" style with respect to conservative things like "chaos in our communities" and "barbarians at the border."
It’s as if the Sex Pistols were singing about law and order instead of anarchy, as if their chart-busting (banned) single, “God Save the Queen,” were not a foamingly sarcastic diatribe but a sincere pledge of fealty to the monarch. Electrifying!
An amusing paradox, but Parker fails to acknowledge that it's a paradox made possible by the stodgy, humorless repression of the liberal side of American political culture. Parker continues with his good if purplish descriptions: Trump has a "big marmalade face and that dainty mobster thing he does with the thumb and forefinger of his right hand." Mobster? Or was that supposed to be "lobster"? Who knows? I know what he means about that hand gesture. (And did you know that Trump said his hand gestures count as a form of exercise?)

Parker says (among many other things): "Trump’s speaking style is from the future, from a time to come when human consciousness has broken down into little floating atavistic splinters of subjectivity and superstition and jokes that aren’t really jokes." Of course, Parker loathes Trump, but that reminded me of something I said about Trump as an exemplar of a new way of speaking:



I'm seeing something more positive about the speaking style of the future (and not just because I do cruel neutrality but because I think I'm speaking in the style of the future too).

106 comments:

Chuck said...

lol. Trump's birther past comes back to haunt him for at least one more news cycle: even the Trump suckup FNC has to cover it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/trump-clinton-trade-barbs-over-obama-birther-movement.html

No other Republican would need to endure this distraction at a critical point in the general election race. The leftwing media might pick something else of course, versus another Republican. Trump's problem however is that this is a genuine story; one that he handed to his enemies. And now Trump has to just eat it. Say he was wrong and that he's sorry.

Crazy Jane said...

If the point is that we have become a coarse and vulgar culture -- Sex Pistols, Trump but also Parker's description of Trump and the article's illustration -- well, I agree.

Oso Negro said...

It is a fair enough analogy. As a participant in the scene known as "punk rock" in the 1970s, there was certainly a rebellion against the overstyled commercial rock of the day. And let me be clear - punks HATED hippies. The same hippies who grew up to be the mainstream totalitarian democrats of today. In the epic "Who Killed Bambi?", there is even the line "never trust a hippie" and "someone should get angry". Hello Donald Trump!

Shawn Levasseur said...

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

Quaestor said...

Louchely.

As a avid absinthe aficionado Quaestor is familiar with louche, which is both a verb, as in This vert louches nicely. and a noun, as in Shit can this cheap-ass so-called absinthe! Where's the fucking louche?. Louche refers to the opalescent clouds that form in absinthe when mixed with water, and its very important to absinthe drinkers, who often watch the forming billows with rapt fascination.

I can't quite grasp the adverbially form as used by Parker. It should mean something similar to cloudily or nebulously, but "you dirty fucker" is hardly nebulous. It's a very clear expression of disapproval, is it not?

Somebody ought to spank those Atlantic editors with a dictionary.

madAsHell said...

No other Republican would need to endure this distraction
The leftwing media might pick something else of course, versus another Republican.

Try not to undermine your argument in the same paragraph.

Sebastian said...

"An amusing paradox, but Parker fails to acknowledge that it's a paradox made possible by the stodgy, humorless repression of the liberal side of American political culture." Correct. The revolution is no joking matter.

"Parker continues with his good if purplish descriptions: Trump has a "big marmalade face and that dainty mobster thing he does with the thumb and forefinger of his right hand." Mobster? Or was that supposed to be "lobster"? Who knows?" In what way is this "good"?

"Parker says (among many other things): "Trump’s speaking style is from the future, from a time to come when human consciousness has broken down into little floating atavistic splinters of subjectivity and superstition and jokes that aren’t really jokes."" Because prog discourse has been all about coherence and funny, funny jokes. As illustrated on this very blog about the way New Yorkers seek new splinters of subjectivity in psychedelic drugs.

I really do appreciate the mini-fiskings here. But when directed at candidates and commentators who are bullshitters to their core, in the technical Frankfurter sense, it gets pointless.

vicari valdez said...

moreso than the sex pistols i would say that trump is eminem. he's south park, he's family guy. he's bill maher (who i really dislike). i'm sure the sex pistols, though, had a hand in creating a world where those kind of entities can thrive.

vicari valdez said...

i agree with ann and the author of the article that trump's speaking style is the future. in fact it's already here.

Quaestor said...

My bad "an avid".

David Begley said...

But what does Meade think of this new Trumpian speaking style? Awesome?

Just don't change your writing style. That would be beyond sad!

madAsHell said...

I'm seeing something more positive about the speaking style of the future

I think everyone is tired of "Who you gonna believe!? Me, or your lying eyes."

Mick said...

Trump does not operate in the politically correct political box, and the politicians, most of who never had a real job in their lives, have no idea how to respond to the real world outside of that box. The Public HATES the politicians and the media almost equally, and live in the real world outside of the politician / banker controlled box. Trump has tapped into their anger, and it is not going away.
Trump is winning and will win by a massive LANDSLIDE, and no amount of propaganda by the useful idiot media will change that.
The Crooked Old Lady rallies are poorly attended snooze fests, and VP candidate Kaine attracted 349 people to a recent rally. The Crooked Old Lady/ Kaine book "Stronger Together", sold a whopping 2900 copies first week--- TOTAL FLOP-- not reported by the "MSM". Trump attracts 10- 15K to rallies. The polls are LIES.

Landslide Trump. The more the hated media attacks him the stronger he gets. This is the death of the "MSM".

Chuck said...

madAsHell:

You moron. My point was that no other mainstream Republican would need to face "birther" questions, because despite the portrayals of Republicans as being The Birther Party, there were damned few Republicans, and virtually no Republican leaders who signed on to the birther idiocy. Pay attention.

Carter Wood said...

Nah, the Clash.

White riot, I want to riot
White riot, a riot of my own
White riot, I want to riot
White riot, a riot of my own

MadisonMan said...

Louchely

Loosely while plastered drunk?

Roger Sweeny said...

Since priority matters in the university, it should be mentioned that Steve Sailer got there earlier and Michael Stutz got there even earlier.

http://www.unz.com/isteve/alt-right-as-alt-rock/

MadisonMan said...

I agree with ann and the author of the article that trump's speaking style is the future. in fact it's already here.

Yes indeed. The future always arrives before you expect it, especially if you're part of the stodgy ruling class. I appreciate Althouse's talking about this.

vicari valdez said...

nah, black flag:

We're gonna be a white minority
We won't listen to the majority
We're gonna feel inferiority
We're gonna be white minority

rehajm said...

The only distinction between the two candidates positions that still matters:

Vertical, Conscious and Self sustaining vs. Questionably Vertical, Conscious and Propped up.

Drago said...

madAsHell to "lifelong republican" Chuck: "Try not to undermine your argument in the same paragraph"

Undermining one's own argument in the same paragraph is something we see quite frequently these days with leftists and "some" "lifelong republicans".

AprilApple said...

Siouxsie looks ridiculous with blonde hair. But I love her!

Nothing on Trumps side compares to Hillary's corruption and money grubbing. Colin Powell knows she is a money-grubber. She sucks all the money out of the room.

AprilApple said...

Hillary is why college is so expensive.

AprilApple said...

While the media dissect the GOP, the criminal on the left walks free.

Drago said...

AprilApple: "Nothing on Trumps side compares to Hillary's corruption and money grubbing."

Careful, lest you disturb the "deep thoughts" and hilariously transparent single-minded focus on Trump by "lifelong republican" Chuck.

Ann Althouse said...

"Louche refers to the opalescent clouds that form in absinthe when mixed with water, and its very important to absinthe drinkers, who often watch the forming billows with rapt fascination."

And when you've had enough, you can even say "loosely" and it sounds like "louchely."

Ann Althouse said...

"Louchely

Loosely while plastered drunk?"

Seeing that after I wrote my comment.

AReasonableMan said...

I must acknowledge a particular aversion to "Wait Wait … Don’t Tell Me!".

Paul Snively said...

Dr. Althouse: that dainty mobster thing he does with the thumb and forefinger of his right hand." Mobster? Or was that supposed to be "lobster"? Who knows?

I do.

"The dapper [New York Mobster Frank] Costello agreed to testify on the condition that his face not be televised. When he spoke, the TV cameras cut to his carefully manicured hands. Costello sounded ill at ease, and his graceful gestures, described as a 'hand ballet,' were surreally disconnected from his status as a major crime boss."

Poundstone, William. Fortune's Formula: The Untold Story of the Scientific Betting System (p. 10). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

Mick said...

Chuck said...
madAsHell:

"You moron. My point was that no other mainstream Republican would need to face "birther" questions, because despite the portrayals of Republicans as being The Birther Party, there were damned few Republicans, and virtually no Republican leaders who signed on to the birther idiocy. Pay attention."


Trump will prosecute the felonious "Birth Certificate", which no one of authority has seen outside of a website, and which the "raised seal" from the state of Hi. has never been touched. No raised seal means not real. Could you get a passport by walking into the Post Office and showing your BC on a laptop? There is a reason Arpaio is with Trump. He has all of the proof of the fake BC. Regardless of PLACE of birth, Obama is not a natural born Citizen because he was born of a foreign father. The very purpose of the requirement is "prevention of foreign influence" (See Federalist 68), therefore it is impossible that one born of a foreign parent, or born in a foreign country is an eligible natural born Citizen.

khesanh0802 said...

@Ann Your portrayal of the evolution of public language and communication is accurate, but it doesn't go far enough. Though you allude to it the vehicles have changed drastically since even 2012. I very much dislike the lack of " privacy', but am overjoyed that the media alternatives today make it impossible to hide such things as Hillary's collapse on 9/11. Back in the day the campaign's spin would have controlled what Americans knew through the MSM. An independent video goes viral and everyone in the world who is interested sees what happened and has formed their own opinion before the news hits the MSM websites. As you pointed out the other day in your "Powering through" piece, the MSM can be made to look like the sycophants they are in about an hour after they make fools of themselves. That someone who we think of as astute, like Colin Powell, can lay himself open to total exposure is wonderful.

Surprisingly the Dems still seem to be locked into 2012. Trump's campaign, as you say, seems to on the cutting edge of where the new communication channels are going. Perhaps this is a reflection of the difference in environmental understanding required by those in business who need to react daily to changes around them and those in government who are coddled, protected and unaware.

The Cracker Emcee said...


"You moron. My point was that no other mainstream Republican would need to face "birther" questions, because despite the portrayals of Republicans as being The Birther Party, there were damned few Republicans, and virtually no Republican leaders who signed on to the birther idiocy. Pay attention."

Hilarious. Sure, Chuck, not birther questions, just accusations of witchcraft, racism on boulders, killing their employees with cancer, making Fido ride on the roof, and every other fucking thing under the sun.

There's a good reason Lifelong Republicans are a laughingstock these days.

Limited blogger said...

John 'Johnny Rotten' Lydon went on to form Public Image Ltd., which was a real and fantastic band. Their third album was 'Flowers of Romance' which paid homage to the early punk band of that name.

Chuck said...

Drago; the Trump birtherism is a totally self-inflicted wound. It's on him, alone. He is not the victim of a left-leaning media smear. This is a case of reporting. Not an unfair attack; not a smear. Trump USED the birther issue for himself. He used it to get attention, and to promote himself. He never made any good sense out of it. He never justified it. He never brought it to any sort of thoughtful conclusion.

Trump, as I have already said, can just suck on this one. Somebody should ram this up his fat ass.

None of this -- I have to say this because of your own relentless stupidity, Drago -- betrays any sympathy on my part for Mrs. Clinton. I have none. My position is that any other Republican would be doing better, to beat her, as I expect both you and I would like.

MadisonMan said...

I must acknowledge a particular aversion to "Wait Wait … Don’t Tell Me!".

Total agreement. The I-am-better-than-you vibe that comes from that show is positively stifling.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

IIRC, the story goes that the Sex Pistols met Sid Vicious at the clothing store called "Sex" and they liked his look so they taught him how to play the bass well enough to join the group. Their last performances tended to degenerate to the guitarist and drummer playing to themselves while Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious squabbled with the audience, fucked up out of their minds.

Analogous to Donald Trump?

Sure. Why the fuck not?

Chuck said...

Cracker Emcee: So it's okay, that Trump was The Nation's Leading Birther? Is there something untrue about Trump-as-birther? Your allusion to Christine O'Donnell is not helpful. We should have won that seat with a good nominee, not O'Donnell. Pretty much what I fear we will be saying in November.

rehajm said...

Political hand gestures are rigorously vetted by consultants and focus groups. But what to do? Candidates need to provide visual emphasis and punctuation during oration but pointing is too aggressive and demeaning. You need to blunt the point. Point without really pointing. Incorporate the thumbs- they're less offensive. But a thumb point can be ambiguous. Let's incorporate the rest of the hand. A fist? Worse than pointing- might as well be Mussolini! Hmmm...Bill Clinton's putting the card in the ATM machine was pretty good. Thumb on top of fist, keep it low, small sliding motion. Pretty good!

Trump's lobster claw(s) vacuum gesture not bad. One's a bit distracting, but two is VERY effective. 'Taking measure' as it were. Nice!

Quaestor said...

Loosely while plastered drunk

Loose plaster. I've had to deal with that.

EMD said...

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

Lydon's line wasn't about the audience. It was about his own experience as a Sex Pistol.

Earnest Prole said...

An amusing paradox, but Parker fails to acknowledge that it's a paradox made possible by the stodgy, humorless repression of the liberal side of American political culture.

One of your best observations. Liberalism has grown as grim as a religion no one still believes in but everyone must still follow.

Quaestor said...

If you've got one spot of loose plaster, there's bound to be more. Loose plaster signals a big job and much expense. Best just to pour another shot and watch the louche.

EMD said...

The artwork is nice. The Hitler reference is a bit old hat, though.

EMD said...

Wow. That article is overwrought and overwritten. Sad!

Anglelyne said...

Trump’s speaking style is from the future, from a time to come when human consciousness has broken down into little floating atavistic splinters of subjectivity and superstition and jokes that aren’t really jokes.

The future? Seems we (or journalists, anyway) descended into communicating in the ooks and screeches of clickbait and emotionalism, "subjectivity and superstition", a while ago. Yeah, even the "serious", "long form" venues.

In one way the article is just another example of someone trying to project the contents of the left's own id - its irrationality, ideological incoherence, and emotional incontinence - onto the right. In another way it reads like someone who's dimly becoming aware that it's really his side that comprises the fearful, closed-off, reactionary prissy-pants, and slowly starting to come to terms with that.

It'll take a while, though.

Mike said...

Maybe Trump is more rock and roll than punk:

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no

Yeah!

Mike said...

The MSM and Hillary really really want to fool us again.

AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
Trump's birther past comes back to haunt him for at least one more news cycle:
No other Republican would need to endure this distraction at a critical point in the general election race.


As reluctant as I am to step into the Chuck vs. the Universe daily drama, I will point out that the sainted Romney was perfectly happy to take Trump's endorsement after he had already started on the birther BS. There's no clean hands on this one.

Anglelyne said...

Quaestor: As a avid absinthe aficionado Quaestor is familiar with louche, which is both a verb, as in This vert louches nicely. and a noun, as in Shit can this cheap-ass so-called absinthe! Where's the fucking louche?. Louche refers to the opalescent clouds that form in absinthe when mixed with water, and its very important to absinthe drinkers, who often watch the forming billows with rapt fascination.

Cool. I didn't know that.

Otherwise, "louchely" is awkward and jarring, but it does makes sense per the only definition of "louche" I was familiar with - sleazy, disreputable.

Wonder how these two meanings are related - guess getting a snootful of absinthe can lead to louche behavior.

Chuck said...

Mick: You poor, sick freak. No matter which Teabag fever-swamp you might call home, THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS NOW DISCLAIMING THE BIRTHER STORY. If you want to cling to the birth certificate story, you'll need to take it up with Trump/Pence2016. The adults in the room at Trump Tower aren't standing by it anymore.

And your miserable internet law school version of Article II isn't going to cut it with me.

Mike said...

Q: Would a "life long Republican" ever use the phrase Teabag fever-swamp?

A: Yes, but only if they are a crony corporate Republican who fears the conservatives of middle America or one named Rockefeller. Otherwise only progressive mind-numbed mainstream-media worshiping lowlifes use a despicable term like that.

Chuck said...

AReasonableMan said...
...

As reluctant as I am to step into the Chuck vs. the Universe daily drama, I will point out that the sainted Romney was perfectly happy to take Trump's endorsement after he had already started on the birther BS. There's no clean hands on this one.

So what? Now that is a standard that I would not want to impose on any candidate. Srsly? A candidate can't accept an endorsement from someone based on the endorser's stupidity?

No, seriously; note well, what I HAVE NOT DONE. I have NOT accused Donald Trump of being a racist, as a consequence of the birther issue. I don't think Trump is any more of a racist than any other white politician. I just think Trump is more of an idiot, and much more undisciplined and reckless, than any other white politician.


Chuck said...

Mike I am not here to help. I'm not going to coddle anybody who wishes ill for the Republican Party, as Mick regularly does. I am not going to play nice with fuckheads who are supporting Trump in order to hurt the Republican Party, or even at the cost of the Republican Party.

Bill said...

Bob-with-the-upraised-eyes looks like St Sebastian anticipating the arrows!

AReasonableMan said...

I am posting this as a public service, a mood lightener for AprilApple:

Jim Geraghty : "let’s contemplate what would happen if [Trump] beat Hillary Clinton… Hillary Clinton would become one of the most hated Democrats of all time. She would rank not merely as a loser, but as the woman who managed to lose the most winnable presidential race in modern history. Forget Mondale, forget Dukakis, forget McGovern. Trump is probably the worst Republican nominee in history – little or no message discipline, little organization, hates fundraising, isn’t convinced television ads or data analysis is needed, tons of scandals and baggage, can’t carry his home state, the media loathes him with the raging passion of a thousand suns going supernova
She has unequaled resources. The party is reasonably unified behind her. She had a great convention. Her commercials have dominated the television airwaves. If Hillary Clinton loses, Democrats will hate her. Overnight she will go from the inspiring role model for all of America’s children to a selfish, deeply-flawed candidate, blinded by ambition and obsessively secretive. Everything that Democrats now insist is inconsequential – her e-mails, the shady deals surrounding the foundation, Benghazi – they will suddenly realize was extremely consequential. The recriminations will be epic."

The Cracker Emcee said...


"Drago; the Trump birtherism is a totally self-inflicted wound"

It's a media-inflicted wound (though not much of one). If it wasn't this it would be something else. Ask Reagan. Ask Bush Sr. Ask GWB. Ask McCain. Ask Romney. Only a Donk troll would pretend not to understand this.

Mike said...

So Chuck thinks saying teabag fever-swamp HELPS the Republican party? Do tell!

What else helps us, Chuck?

Amnesty? Open borders?

Trade deals that impose leftist ideals on our trading partners instead of opening markets to our goods?

I think the leaders of the RNC and others have done great damage to the party and wasted the results of the 2010 and 2014 midterms. They "destroyed" their own base and that's why we have Trump where he is today.

Mike said...

Example: McCain on the trail in 2008 said "OK I'll build your damn wall!"

But he never lifted a finger to do so after losing to Obama. No he joined the Gang of 8 to PUSH amnesty. Thanks RNC! Thanks leaders! Thanks senior Republicans!

Trump is a reaction to the rotten core of the party leadership. Punk was reaction to rotten corporate music of the '70s.

Michael K said...

"Trump's endorsement after he had already started on the birther BS."

Everyone who hates Trump ignores the fact that the birther issue began with the Hillary campaign in 2008 and ultimately was based on Obama's book proposal where he represented himself as a foreign student from Kenya.

Someday, the truth about the birth certificate may come out. I suspect it has to do with the father listed but not Kenya.

gerry said...

"Trump’s speaking style is from the future, from a time to come when human consciousness has broken down into little floating atavistic splinters of subjectivity and superstition and jokes that aren’t really jokes."

Good golly, that's pompatous!

richardsson said...

@Chuck

Do you realize that Obama was the original "birther?" In the promo material he wrote for his first autobiography, he claimed that he was born in Kenya. I thought all that birth certificate stuff was nonsense (to describe it politely), but like so many other dubious claims that could be traced back to the horse's mouth, the media never confronted Obama on his "birther" claims or anything else. They were in love. They had tingles running down their legs. They admired his pants creases. That's why only 30 per cent of the people think they're honest and reliable.

Chuck said...

Fuck you all. You fucking idiots.

I never vouched for Obama; I only contend that the "birther" claims are stupid.

Here is the debunking of the literary agent's promo pamphlet story. It's true, of course. It raises some questions about Barack Obama's self-promotion. Or someone else's promotion of him. It was a stupid claim to have made. I know that.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

And I truly couldn't care less, that some bastard in the 2008 Hillary campaign was the first to trot it out. It doesn't excuse Trump for turning it into a second job for himself.

The guy was born in Hawaii to an American mom, with his birth announced in the Honolulu papers at the time. It doesn't even fucking matter who the fuck his father was.

I have never, ever, seen the Althouse commentariat sink to such a low level as excusing birtherism for the sake of pumping up the Trump candidacy. Professor Althouse ought to be mortified.

A birther, a truther, a vaxxer.

Chuck said...

LMFAO!!!!:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/09/16/donald-trump-barack-obama-hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-birtherism/90471868/

Backing the fuck down. Good. Say you're sorry, too.

Todd Galle said...

To get back to the original proposition, it is important to remember that the Sex Pistols were really the manipulated point of the spear of punk rock. There were tons of contemporary groups popping up everywhere. Malcolm just promoted and positioned the Pistols as the face of punk. I've got lots of punk on vinyl from that period, and many groups put out more albums than the Pistols. If Trump is the "Pistol like candidate" than there's a whole lot of secondary players participating in the background, all making noise for certain fans. If names were to be assigned to these tertiary groups, I would like to claim either the Adverts or the Buzzcocks.

Todd Galle said...

I would also accept the Slits.

Todd Galle said...

I would shun being in the Strangler group though. Although with the decline in societal values, who knows.

vicari valdez said...

the idea of an 'msm' also seems anachronistic. i think you could already begin to start saying this as soon as the acronym was coined. would trump's twitter feed be considered part of the msm? why or why not?

grackle said...

My position is that any other Republican would be doing better, to beat her, as I expect both you and I would like.

I understand Republicans attacking Trump before he won the nomination. They had their favorite candidates to promote. All’s fair in love and war. Perfectly understandable. But after the convention in the general election against the Democrat opponent? Doesn’t make sense – not from someone who claims to be a Republican and who is supposed to want the GOP to win elections.

So it's okay, that Trump was The Nation's Leading Birther?

Well, he DID force Obama to come up with proof of eligibility. No one else had up to that point. I think it was worth it just to flush Obama out. And the birther question was begun by the Clinton campaign. If birtherism was a bad thing then the Clinton campaign certainly deserves some of the credit.

I am not going to play nice with fuckheads who are supporting Trump in order to hurt the Republican Party.

Q. If the Republican nominee for POTUS wins the election – THAT hurts the Republican party? Huh? We’re observing a clinical case of butt-hurt here, readers, one of the worse that Dr. Grackle has ever seen. Talk about sore losers …

Trump is probably the worst Republican nominee in history …

Here we go again. Trump set records in voter turnout during the primaries, more than ANY GOP candidate in history, including Reagan and Bush, jr – our two most successful recent GOP Presidents. This argument was worn out even before the primaries were over but they keep picking it up, dusting it off and acting like it’s relevant.

cubanbob said...

@ ARM at 10.07
Dude that was an impressive quote you pasted. It really rings true. Thing is Hillary loses no matter what. She is the Democrat's Nixon (albeit without having any of his virtues). Even if she makes it across the finish line she is so awful and so damaged it's doubtful she will serve out a term. The country is so messed up that whoever wins is going to inherit a disaster. At least if Trump wins the Democrats can always (albeit without any legitimacy) saw it's Trump's and the Republican's fault. If she wins, she can't blame Obama. If she was wise, she should just find out today she has health issues that preclude her from continuing the campaign and let the DNC find someone to take her place. She is clever, she should negotiate with Trump a no prosecution deal for her and her minions for her selfless act of courage. She will be warmly regarded by the Democrats for doing so. Better still if Sanders gets the replacement slot it will be a win-win for the Democrats. They get to purge the criminals out of the party, they get remove the progressives out of the party and they then become credible enough to win in 2020 and possibly take both houses of Congress. To know how to win you must also know when to lose.

Anglelyne said...

Fuck you all. You fucking idiots.

You're so cute when you're angry, Chuck.

Chuck said...

lol, grackle.

Fortunately, Trump is becoming less Trump every day now. It might require major surgery, to completely remove all traces of Trump, with good margins. Surgery, and chemo.

He's got a mainstream Republican campaign manager, giving him normal speeches to read, instead of his stream-of-unconscious raving. Of late, the written speeches have gotten rather good.

Within the hour, Trump has declared that Obama was born in Hawaii. We still need to correct the vaxxer thing, and the truther thing. He'll need to get around to expressing serious regret for the Clinton Foundation donations. And release his tax returns. And his medical records concerning his heel spurs.

But I shouldn't complain. It's a start.

Wilbur said...

As miserably unlistenable The Sex Pistols were, they had one great lyric. Made me laugh every time I heard it:

God save the Queen
She ain't no human being

grackle said...

And release his tax returns.

After the IRS audit is over, sure.

Wilbur said...

Comparing Trump to The Sex Pistols is about as strained a comparison as I can imagine.

How about singing cowboys? Trump: more Eddie Dean or Tex Ritter?

cubanbob said...

Chuck you should calm down and take your meds. You are starting to make Mick look calm, reasonable and sane. That's a not a position you should be aiming for.

Trump the huckster knows what he is doing. No matter how much you froth, you already admitted you are voting for him. He knows he has your vote. He is making the Democrats and the Left froth at their mouths and with that hopes to get enough independents to vote for him and enough Democrats to stay home. He just might pull it off. And no, there wasn't any Republican running in the primaries that wouldn't have been hacked to pieces by the Left. Your theory is junk. The difference between Trump and the other Republicans is that Trump doesn't give a crap and fights back and in a way that doesn't antagonize most of the potential independents that might vote for him. My guy Cruz I'm afraid to say doesn't have that knack.

Chuck said...

grackle said...
And release his tax returns.

After the IRS audit is over, sure.


Other than his own choice, what prevents Trump from releasing copies of his filed returns? Other than his own chosen defensive strategy, that is. He could release copies tomorrow if he wanted. No law prevents it.

Also; how do you know Trump is being audited at all? And which years? Apart from the crap that Trump himself says.

Chuck said...

cubanbob:

Go fuck yourself, with that "take your meds" bullshit. If I were Ann Althouse, I would kick you off her comments page for that. I recommend to her that she do that, today. Make an example of you. Even if a short-term suspension.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: I am not going to play nice with fuckheads who are supporting Trump in order to hurt the Republican Party, or even at the cost of the Republican Party.

Of course not. Why should you? "Hurting" the Republican Party as it stood at the beginning of this election cycle was, for me, certainly a point in favor of supporting Trump. Makes perfect sense to me that a devout member of God's Own Holy True Conservative(tm) Party should tremble with rage at very idea of its being attacked.

So have at! Be as intemperate and hysterical as you like! You can call me a fever swamp fuckhead all day long, I don't mind. (Now that I think about it, "Fever Swamp Fuckhead" would make a great username. Thanks for the idea!)

And after screaming in rage at the kafirs and apostates in the thousandth thread for the umpteenth time, you will have accomplished...what, exactly?

Chuck said...

And after screaming in rage at the kafirs and apostates in the thousandth thread for the umpteenth time, you will have accomplished...what, exactly?

~ Established my distance from Trump, in the event that he loses in a shockingly bad fashion.

~ Set up the post-election phase of Republican politics, in which the choices are (a) an adversarial relationship with a Clinton White House, or (b) an adversarial relationship with a Trump White House.

~ Won my personal arguments with Trump defenders. Just like today. Where I criticized Trump, on the "birther" thing. Then, Trump's defenders told me that the "birther" thing has real merit. Then, Trump himself says that birtherism is over and Obama was born in Hawaii. I win.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck @11:56 AM, ready for his close-up.

wildswan said...

Louching toward Bedlam

Mick said...

"~ Won my personal arguments with Trump defenders. Just like today. Where I criticized Trump, on the "birther" thing. Then, Trump's defenders told me that the "birther" thing has real merit. Then, Trump himself says that birtherism is over and Obama was born in Hawaii. I win".

"Birtherism" is not only about PLACE of birth, it is about the foreign father, and the FACT that Hussein Obama was born a British subject. Trump is not going to step into the trap set by the crooked Old Lady and the MSM. He is fading that for now, because that is all they would talk about if he said there is doubt. Hussein Obama would not be eligible if he was born on the Oval Office desk because he was born of a foreign father. SCOTUS defined "natural born Citizen with PRECEDENT in 1875, and that PRECEDENT was cited in 1898 by SCOTUS, and Hussein Obama does not fit the definition, which is from US Original Common Law (law of nations).

"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners". Minor v. Happersett, 88 US 162, @167 (1875); Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649, @ (1898).

Chuck said...

You keep workin' that one, Mick. All the way into Obama's retirement. Just maybe, you'll be able to get a room in the Obama Presidential Library.

Now tell me; what were the "unbelievable" things that Trump's investigators turned up in Hawaii?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/07/trump-sends-investigators-hawaii-gains-gop-presidential-primary-poll.html

viator said...


A trip in a time machine....
Monday 25 February 2008 16.50 EST
"Aides for Mrs Clinton, who is fighting a last-ditch battle to keep her hopes of the White House alive, initially tried to brush off the furore, but later denied having anything to do with the distribution of the picture. "I just want to make it very clear that we were not aware of it, the campaign didn't sanction it and don't know anything about it," Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson told reporters. "None of us have seen the email in question."

Obama and Clinton go to the polls in the Texas and Ohio primaries next week. If Clinton loses either, her bid for the Democratic nomination could be over.

The picture showing Obama in a turban during a visit to Kenya in 2006 first appeared on the Drudge Report website today.

The site said it was circulated by Clinton's staffers and quoted one saying: "Wouldn't we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were [Clinton]?"

The picture was taken when Obama went on a visit to Africa as a senator. Obama, whose father was Kenyan, visited Wajir in the Kenyan north-east, close to the Somali and Ethiopian borders, and was dressed by locals as a Somali elder.

The Clinton team hit back at the criticism today, saying Obama's team had turned the picture into a row to distract attention from a foreign policy speech she gave today.

The Obama campaign has repeatedly claimed it has been the target of dirty tricks by the Clinton team. A senior member of her staff, Bill Shaheen, had to resign last year after raising Obama's admitted use of marijuana and cocaine as a youth.

A junior Clinton staffer resigned in December after forwarding an email suggesting Obama is a Muslim."

Mick said...

"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners". Minor v. Happersett, 88 US 162, @167 (1875); Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649, @ (1898).

THE IRREFUTABLE TRUTH ^^^^^. All of the courts and all of Congress have committed treason, and you support treason.

"Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?" Federalist 68, Alexander Hamilton

ALSO THE TRUTH. How could a "creature of our own" (natural born Citizen) be born a British subject? The purpose of the requirement is "prevention of foreign influence", so it is impossible that one born in a foreign country (Cruz) or of a foreign parent (Obama, Rubio) is an eligible natural born Citizen.

Mick said...

"A junior Clinton staffer resigned in December after forwarding an email suggesting Obama is a Muslim."

Obama is a Muslim. He has repeated the shahada, and was definitely a Muslim in his youth. If he is not a Muslim, then he is an apostate, and Muslim leaders would have nothing to do with him, and he would be marked for death. He has also stated in his book "Dreams" that he would "stand with the Muslims when the ill winds blow", which is what he is doing now.

wildswan said...

The second easiest way for foreigners to raise a creature of their own to important positions is to purchase a politician or a general. For instance Benedict Arnold, born in Connecticut, sold out the American Revolution for money and position. He thought the British, a global power, could give him a better position than the backward colonials, the Yankee Doodles. And this thought is still occurring to well-heeled foreigners and to well-placed Americans.

Chuck said...

Mick said...
"A junior Clinton staffer resigned in December after forwarding an email suggesting Obama is a Muslim."

Obama is a Muslim. He has repeated the shahada, and was definitely a Muslim in his youth. If he is not a Muslim, then he is an apostate, and Muslim leaders would have nothing to do with him, and he would be marked for death. He has also stated in his book "Dreams" that he would "stand with the Muslims when the ill winds blow", which is what he is doing now.


Cool story, bro! Asalam Aleikum! Aloha!

wildswan said...

The question isn't whether Obama is Shiite Moslem like his father's tribe. The question is why he gave 400 million in cash and gold to the (Shiite) Iranian regime, knowing this untraceable cash source would be used to finance terrorism. The question is why Hillary is promising to continue Obama's policies which include financing the terrorist wing of Iranian politics.

Mick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mick said...

"The question isn't whether Obama is Shiite Moslem like his father's tribe. The question is why he gave 400 million in cash and gold to the (Shiite) Iranian regime, knowing this untraceable cash source would be used to finance terrorism. The question is why Hillary is promising to continue Obama's policies which include financing the terrorist wing of Iranian politics".

An impeachable offense totally ignored by that majority Republican team in Congress. How is that working out for you dumb ass Republicans? NO ONE should be in any political party, and entity solely built for power, not adherence to the Constitution. Starve the beast.

FullMoon said...

viator said... [hush]​[hide comment]


A trip in a time machine....
Monday 25 February 2008 16.50 EST
"Aides for Mrs Clinton, who is fighting a last-ditch battle to keep her hopes of the White House alive, initially tried to brush off the furore, but later denied having anything to do with the distribution of the picture. "I just want to make it very clear that we were not aware of it, the campaign didn't sanction it and don't know anything about it," Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson told reporters. "None of us have seen the email in question."


And, here they are, eight years later, trying to use it again, and Trump blows them off in one sentence. Hilarious !!

Chuck said...

lol. "Four More Impeachments!"

How is Senator Christine O'Donnell, Senator Todd Akin and Senator Sharron Angle working out for you dumb ass Trumpbaggers?

FullMoon said...

TRUMP TROLLS CHUCK and MEDIA

" Trump’s campaign hyped up change on birther issue. And now that TV networks carrying it live, we’ve had 20 mins of veterans endorsing Trump"

— Jeremy Diamond (@JDiamond1) September 16, 2016

"We got played, again, by the Trump campaign.” — John King just now on CNN.

— Matt Viser (@mviser) September 16, 2016

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/media-outraged-after-trump-tricks-them-to-cover-endorsements-from-military-heroes/#ixzz4KRi8jAwx



Todd Galle said...

Let's be fair to B. Arnold, he like many was hosed through politics. If I remember right, he took over his dead fathers debts and paid them in full. Worked his way up through the Continental Army establishment. Was a very effective battlefield commander, and an officer widely admired by his troops. Then got passed over for promotion after taking his third (I believe - I have his biography at work) wound which put him out of action. The man appears to have been nearly fearless. His turn to the Brits was due to his treatment by the Revolutionary Government and the leadership of the Continental Army.

Chuck said...

FullMoon:

So Trump spends a year devoting himself to birtherism, refuses to declaim it for years and during most of the campaign, is finally forced into renouncing it by his adult Republican managers...

...and then claims "victory" insofar as he got 20 minutes of baloney time before finally reading his humiliating renunciation on national tv.

Trump is in that same category as Gary Busey, Kanye West and Kathy Griffin, in which any publicity, no matter how bad, is all good because the core business is celebrity.

FullMoon said...

Chuck,
Trump has everybody, including you, talking about Hillary starting birtherism. haha, haven't you noticed? You been played, bro. Latest on Twitter is Hillary refusing to deny O is a muslim.. Trump has succeeded in raising that old issue without even trying.

Chuck said...

Of course, when Trump talks about "Hillary starting birtherism," about 35% of the country loves it, and about 65% of the country thinks Trump is completely crazy. (And has been, since he was promoting birtherism himself years ago.)

Perfect, for a landslide electoral loss.

FullMoon said...

Trump already has his supporters, no matter what he does. Now, he is going for black vote and has brought back the fact that Hillary dissed O back in the day. Coming right after Black Powells email talkin' 'bout hot Bill and Hillary hate O? Almost seems planned.

FullMoon said...

Chuck !
"Patti Solis Doyle, who was Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager in 2008 until the Iowa caucuses, admitted on Friday that a Clinton campaign staffer had, in fact, circulated the Birther conspiracy theory that Barack Obama was born outside the U.S. and therefore potentially ineligible to serve in the presidency."

grackle said...

Other than his own choice, what prevents Trump from releasing copies of his filed returns? Other than his own chosen defensive strategy, that is. He could release copies tomorrow if he wanted. No law prevents it. Also; how do you know Trump is being audited at all? And which years? Apart from the crap that Trump himself says.

So .. I take it that if Chuck was Trump’s lawyer that Chuck would be advising Trump to release his tax records before his IRS audit is over. In case I forget remind me to never hire Chuck as my lawyer.

Trump claims he has been audited several years in a row. Does Chuck seriously believe that if that were a lie it wouldn’t have been leaked by the Obama administration? Please, be a little less far-fetched in your speculations.

wildswan said...

So I'm reading about the era after Queen Elizabeth which was dominated by a corrupt court and political process and by absorbing the changes caused by expansion into the Americas; and reading about one of its stars, John Donne.

His style:
Go and catch a falling star
Get with child a mandrake root
Tell me where all past years are,
Or who cleft the devil's foot,
Teach me to hear mermaids singing,
Or to keep off envy's stinging,
And find
What wind
Serves to advance an honest mind

Compared to Spenser the reigning favorite:

"Ye learned sisters which have oftentimes
Been to me aiding, others to adorn:
Whom ye thought worthy of your graceful rhymes,
That even the greatest did not greatly scorn
To hear their names sung in your simple lays,
But joyed in their praise" etc.

Corruption and vast change called for a new poetry then as now.

Rusty said...

I was going to not that the language has chqnged because the keppers of the language and it's meaning have been fired or are in the process of being fired. Relesed from their ervitude by that screen in front of you with a keyboard attaced. The internet has become the gret leveler of this century. The provider of the democracy of opinions. For example;

Blogger Chuck said...
"Fuck you all. You fucking idiots."

Rusty said...

Please excuse the spelling.

Mike said...

So Trump spends a year devoting himself to birtherism...

Wait. What? When did he spend a year doing that? He's been especially coy throughout the primaries and the run up until today to say little or "I don't talk about it any more." Which is one of many strange things about Hillary getting all birthery right now, in such a huff that she got played along with her partners in the media.

What maroons! So blinded by their obsession with birtherism that they give the man they hate 30 freaking free minutes on every network. Which he spends 30 seconds at the end destroying their premise. Forcing it back upon the wicked witch of leftwing has-beens.

Delicious schedenfreudistic slow-mo train wreck that she is.

Rusty said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"Fuck you all. You fucking idiots."

Simple. Yet effective. This should be Hillarys' campaign slogan. If there is ever a progressive banner this should be written on it.
Chuck. I think you have unwittingly stumbled upon a meme.
This should be the closing phrase on everything you post.