July 16, 2016

"The man behind the running-over operation in Nice, France, is a soldier from the Islamic State..."

"... and he carried out the attack to answer the calls for targeting the nationals of countries in the coalition that is fighting Islamic State."

104 comments:

Michael K said...

HuffPo is certain that this is a false claim.

One comment:

Richard Fritz · Hickory, North Carolina
C'mon, newspeople. Not even ISIS could claim more than a purely speculative, if irrefutable, 'he was responding to our call', while the 'arrests' appear to have been of people not even in touch with him in recent years, so it's plainly an interrogatory detention of the CYA style to keep from looking like they overlooked a conspiracy. But to announce it as evidence of one is puerile.


See? nothing to see here.

Bob said...

France never gave up or sold Devil's Island, just discontinued the place because of WWII. They could resume sending felons and malcontents there. Just sayin'.

AprilApple said...

Josh Ernest still unsure.

coupe said...

The police officers who let him onto the promenade are suspect. If I was a reporter I'd be concentrating on that. They enabled the massacre and need to be identified as to their religion and associations.

David Begley said...

The Religion of Peace™ at work again.

David Begley said...

Hillary's response after the Bastille Day attack in Nice, "Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary. Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism."

Liar.

Humperdink said...

"In Msaken, Tunisia, the man’s father, Mohamed Mondher Lahouaiej Bouhlel, told Agence France-Presse on Friday night that his son had depression, but that he “had almost no links to religion,” and that “he didn’t pray, he didn’t fast, he drank alcohol, and even used drugs.”

The elder Mr. Lahouaiej Bouhlel said of his son, “From 2002 to 2004, he had problems that caused a nervous breakdown.”

“He would become angry, and he shouted,” he said, adding, “He would break anything he saw in front of him.”

Another highly vetted immigrant. Maybe we should get some *cough*.

Michael K said...

"The police officers who let him onto the promenade are suspect. "

Yes or just stupid. Ice cream with no refrigeration ?

The use of trucks and cars as weapons has been pioneered, as so much other terrorism, by the Palestinians in Israel.

The fascination of Democrats with Muslims is interesting.

The Drill SGT said...

One could also claim he is part of AQ+. After all, in 2010, AQ laid out a primer for truck terrorism in their monthly online magazine. Their weapon of choice, the F150. great HP/weight ratio.

traditionalguy said...

Spengler posits that the French Intelligence guys get human Intel from French Muslims charged with crimes who cut plea. Deals to join The Caliphate and report on them. This Muslim fits that pattern. He has three children, but never was a radical Muslim.

When ISIS catches them, then they are told their families and themselves will be killed, unless they redeem themselves and their family by doing a suicide attack.

When the Jihadists have that much power inside the ghettos of immigrants, then you are effectively invaded by a hostile army.

shiloh said...

"HuffPo is certain that this is a false claim.

One comment:"

There are non sequiturs and then there is MK.

So one person disagreeing means HP disagrees. MK seriously, you need to go on a longgg vacation and not return.

Michael K said...

"he drank alcohol, and even used drugs.”

So did the 9/11 hijackers.

Penance ? That's what Spengler says.

By deploying police snitches as suicide attackers, terrorists assert their moral superiority and power over western governments. The message may be lost on the western public, whose security agencies and media do their best to obscure it, but it is well understood among the core constituencies of the terrorist groups: the superiority of Islam turns around the depraved criminals whom the western police send to spy on us, and persuades them to become martyrs for the cause of Islam.

Also drinkers and drug users.

Michael K said...

" MK seriously, you need to go on a longgg vacation and not return."

Maybe you should read the rest of the comments on that HuffPo post.

I know you are obsessed with me and are in a panic that Hillary is going down iike the Titanic but try to act a tiny bit more mature.

Achilles said...

Every attack by Muslims and every stupid response by Clinton is another nail in the coffin.

Trump is going to win a landslide if he survives.

The Drill SGT said...

Religion of Peace? Channeling "The Forbin Project", Islam is the outreach religion of "the unburied dead, the converted, or the chained slaves"

shiloh said...

"Maybe you should read the rest of the comments on that HuffPo post."

Continuing non sequiturs aside, does everyone who comments here speak for Althouse? Rhetorical.

take care, blessings

Hagar said...

Not from the other reports about this guy. He sounds more like a loser getting revenge on the world.
But underlying it, is still his childhood religion and the promise of forgiveness for all if dying in jihad and a promise of going to Paradise and getting 72 virgins - or raisins, or whatever the promise originally was.

Sebastian said...

"Hillary's response after the Bastille Day attack in Nice, "Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary. Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.""

On the other hand, Republican Hate Kills, and as Professional Historians have reminded us, Trump foments violence. So, like O, let's all stay focused on the real enemy.

shiloh said...

"Trump is going to win a landslide if he survives"

Landslide w/a qualifier ~ too funny.

Althouse, was the moon in the seventh house and did Jupiter align w/Mars last nite?

Michael K said...

"Trump foments violence"

He "foments violence" the way those Christians do in Syria.

How dare they be alive !

damikesc said...

The police officers who let him onto the promenade are suspect. If I was a reporter I'd be concentrating on that. They enabled the massacre and need to be identified as to their religion and associations.

It may have been accident, but a truck parked somewhere for nine hours to "sell ice cream" without ever selling any ice cream or having any evidence of a cooling system seems really off.

Hillary's response after the Bastille Day attack in Nice, "Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary. Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism."

No matter how many Muslims kill others, they are never enemies.

Gun owners, though --- evil to the core. All of 'em. Except her security detail...scratch that. She hates them too.

The fascination of Democrats with Muslims is interesting.

No joke. Apparently, they don't mind theocrats who ACTUALLY want to kill gays. A desire to "fix" their disorder is horrifying, though.

Continuing non sequiturs aside, does everyone who comments here speak for Althouse? Rhetorical.

HuffPo is a bit more hands-on with their comments than Althouse is.

Mary Beth said...

Landslide w/a qualifier ~ too funny.

Assassinations are hilarious?

coupe said...

Every year they fined Brigitte Bardot for saying Muslims were destroying France, and told her it was considered hate speech.

Obviously she failed political correctness 101, and the citizens are happy that the body count is somewhat manageable, and not overflowing the morgues.

Another country to take off your bucket list.

William said...

They claim that our drone strikes create more enemies than we destroy in that all the relatives and friends of those killed become sympathetic to the ISIS cause. This claim has some credibility, but why shouldn't a similar dynamic take place among those who have been exposed to a terrorist attack.......,I don't think Muslims want to run over children. However, those Muslims who are undergoing breakdowns or psychic lesions seem to have a propensity to engage in such grotesque acts of violence. This is only a tiny miniscularity of all Muslims, but it doesn't take many and the number is confined to Muslims. Other religions do not breed or promote mass murderers in the way Islam does. At what point are we entitled to look askance at Muslim immigrants. What is prudent and what is prejudice?

Paco Wové said...

It's interesting that the idea of this guy not being part of an "organized group" is waved about as though it is a refutation of the Muslims-as-terrorists thing.

shiloh said...

"HuffPo is a bit more hands-on with their comments than Althouse is."

Bullshit!

But Althouse does do a good job of stealing er appropriating their daily headlines. Indeed, originality is not one of her strengths.

This is why HP is easily the highest volume news source on the net ie everybody steals their articles. Funny how that works.

Michael said...

private shiloh

Shouldn't you be over at the reenactor's blog? You were posting like a madman yesterday on the war topic. Sort of coherently.

Do you use the proper techniques, the historically correct ones, to clean your uniforms? Or do you just toss them in with your other stuff or, worse, send them to the cleaners?



coupe said...

"Over the last twenty years, we have given in to a subterranean, dangerous, and uncontrolled infiltration, which not only resists adjusting to our laws and customs but which will, as the years pass, attempt to impose its own." - Bardot, 2003

She could have added ", and they will massacre Christians on le quatorze juillet."

Sal said...

He sounds more like a loser getting revenge on the world.

Evidence that he was with ISIS.

William said...

The cop who let the truck through is probably feeling pretty depressed right now. I think Hillary should do something to cheer him up. He wasn't like those Islamophobes who persecuted poor Ahmad for his harmless little clock. No, the cop was the kind of man who didn't feel that Muslims should be subject to extra scrutiny. He should be celebrated, not criticized. Hillary should invite him to appear with her at campaign events. Perhaps James Taylor could sing Imagine at these events. That would really fire up the base and show how Hillary appeals to the better angels of our nature.

damikesc said...

Bullshit!

Scary, but true. HuffPo is pretty tight on their comments threads.

But Althouse does do a good job of stealing er appropriating their daily headlines. Indeed, originality is not one of her strengths.

I've never seen her claim to be a reporter. She provides opinions on things she finds interesting. Can you cite her claiming to be more than somebody providing opinions?

This is why HP is easily the highest volume news source on the net ie everybody steals their articles. Funny how that works.

Lefties like to engage in circle jerks. Got it. No need to prove the case further.

AReasonableMan said...

Paco Wové said...
It's interesting that the idea of this guy not being part of an "organized group" is waved about as though it is a refutation of the Muslims-as-terrorists thing.


An organized terrorist group is much easier to deal with, in the sense that they can be defeated militarily and/or negotiated with, as happened with the IRA. Clearly many of these attacks in the West by muslims are not controlled in any meaningful sense by ISIS and are therefore much harder to address since they involve a diffuse, disaffected and angry segment of the population, especially in France.

John said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John said...

The man was insane. He may also have been a soldier of ISIS. Those with weak minds are taken advantage of by strong unscrupulous leaders and movements. Trump comes to mind.

Michael K said...

"they involve a diffuse, disaffected and angry segment of the population, especially in France."

Who can be given directions by social media which is often encrypted as they get into the real conspiracy leaders.

shiloh said...

"Do you use the proper techniques, the historically correct ones, to clean your uniforms?"

Even my father wasn't a reenactor. But there is a Kent Civil War society and when my dad passed my mom donated all his books, enclosed wooden casing map w/all the major battle sites, memorabilia, etc. to their group and "we" were invited to their monthly meetings.

Civil War Map ~ My dad built it from scratch 1963. Watched him solder the wires.

>

I know your reply was sarcasm, but decided to give you a straight up answer, no nonsense. hmm, maybe I'm under the weather.

But please continue w/the sarcastic replies as I'd be disappointed otherwise.

After Shiloh, the South never smiled!

Michael K said...

John, another "Profile Not Available."

The trolls are out.

Humperdink said...

William said: The cop who let the truck through is probably feeling pretty depressed right now."

"At PSU football games (100K fans), they have plastic, water filled New Jersey barriers to protect the throng of pedestrians near the stadium. Of course, on the other side of the barriers, there are thousands unprotected fans streaming in. Just like Brussels airport attack - they are outside the security perimeter.

Michael K said...

My great uncles survived Shiloh but did not survive Vicksburg.

I have been t the grave of one and am searching for the grave of the other which is in Memphis National Cemetery.

He died at 8AM June 1, 1863 in Ward J of the Gayoso General Hospital in Memphis. Many of those dead were buried as "Unknown."

I';m sorry, Another "non-sequitur."

George111 said...

"Lefties like to engage in circle jerks. Got it."

What do you think is observed here on a daily basis among the majority rightist commenters? Are you completely unaware? Then you have commneters like Michael above who seem to take on the role of gatekeeper.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
coupe said...

I think the use of truck bombs is so common now, that allowing a large truck to be anywhere near thousands of people celebrating a national holiday would be a criminal act.

The people who allowed the truck to be there should be arrested, and the military should interrogate them.

As a minimum they should never be allowed to police again.

jaydub said...

"At what point are we entitled to look askance at Muslim immigrants. What is prudent and what is prejudice?"

People from elsewhere in the world do not automatically have a right to immigrate to the US, and the US is not obligated to accept anyone as an immigrant. Every immigrant should be looked at askance, but those from cultures that are completely foreign to our way of life, social norms and historical values should be examined with an extremely critical eye or automatically excluded. This is not prejudice, it's a requirement for our survival as a liberal society. The multicultural claptrap that has been forced down the throats of the citizenry is completely bogus. Western civilization is who we are, and what the Islamists stand for is not compatible with Western civilization. We had better wake up to that fact or we will surely lose our culture and our liberty.

Drago said...

ARM: "An organized terrorist group is much easier to deal with, in the sense that they can be defeated militarily and/or negotiated with, as happened with the IRA."

Serious question: as relates to terrorist groups, define "organized".

I don't believe you can in a coherent and/or useful way (particularly in the case of radical Islamic jihadism).

Whether it's the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Jund as-Sham, the JTJ, the TQJBR, the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI, al-Dawla al-Islamiya), ISIS/ISIL (which split from Al Qaeda/Jabhat al-Nusra) and now just the "Islamic State", the methods, means and motivating/animating features of this philosophy defy your attempt to categorize them as "organized" in a "traditional" western terrorist framework sense.

I understand the desire to do so, but it is folly and can never lead to "success".

Threepines said...

"....since they involve a diffuse, disaffected and angry segment of the population...."

And these are the ones who fall under the influence of leaders like Trump and other despots.

Bruce Hayden said...

Dr K asks an interesting question. Why have Muslims gained such moral authority and status as an officially aggrieved minority? I'm t hasn't been that many centuries since Christiandom was fighting for its very survival against attacks by Islam. I was surprised to discover that my ancestors were already in this country before the Muslims were stopped at the gates of Vienna (1683). Arguably, for most of a millennium, Christiandom had been fighting and losing to Islam. Yet, and somehow, the greatest threat to much of what is good and great in in this country has more moral legitimacy than what made this country in particular, and western civilization in general, great.

I don't know the answer to this question, but have some ideas. I don't think that Obama would have been elected President, or even Senator, if those (carefully suppressed) pictures of him in traditional Muslim garb had been made public back then. Ditto probably for his transcripts and the like. He was elected, at least partially, by hiding his past and his roots from first IL voters, and then later the rest of us. That took a lot of work. Did we really want a rabid Islamophile that soon after 9/11/01?

In any case, I stray a bit. Why the almost fawning acceptance of Islam, Muslims, etc, by the left, despite their continued attacks on the rest of the world? Partially, I think that it is a function of an international, transnational, elite. But really driving this is the accident of oil having been discovered in Muslim lands stretching from Arabia through into Iran. Esp. In Arabia. A bunch of backwards nomads happened to be roaming over some of the biggest oil reserves in the world. This was the wellspring of Islam, and its residents hadn't really progressed very far since then. Normally, we would have just ignored them as they continued to stone women who had been raped, and executing homosexuals, except for an occasional National Geographic article on their quaint ways. But there was that oil, and that meant money. A shitload of money. We have a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims who still take seriously the orders of their prophet to expand his religion by anyway possible, including by the sword. Except they now have that huge pile of money, and they have used it in all sorts of ways in this quest. This is why the ever greedy Clintons have become so close to the Gulf elite. And, they aren't alone. That transnational elite has allowed the oil rich Muslims to buy their way into their exclusive club. And that comes with the strings of eliminating residual resistance to Islamic conquest.

Drago said...

Now, in ARM's defense, it is true that ISIS wants to develop a complete nation-state architecture and is already attempting this on as large a scale as they can where they have sufficient physical and political control.

In that sense there are specific geographic points with concentrations of activities that could and should be targeted, most notably Raqqa in Syria (which is the ISIS "capital").

ISIS also has plans for everything from developing and issuing currency to public works and has implemented these programs where they can.

Michael K said...

"That transnational elite has allowed the oil rich Muslims to buy their way into their exclusive club. And that comes with the strings of eliminating residual resistance to Islamic conquest."

And that elite promises to shut down fracking which frees us from dependency on hellholes like Saudi.

Threepines said...

"Why the almost fawning acceptance of Islam, Muslims, etc, by the left, despite their continued attacks..."

Who has a fawning acceptance of torture tactics employed by ISIS? Who speaks in fond terms of the past dictators of the Middle East? Who wants to kill relatives of those who engage in terrorists acts? Who wants to force the military into performing acts deemed illegal? Who wants to get on the same level as ISIS?

Starts with a T ends with an "rump".

jr565 said...

But as Obama might say "we cant' really determine why these attacks are carried out. But it has nothing to do with Islam, that's for sure"

shiloh said...

"I don't think that Obama would have been elected President, or even Senator, if those (carefully suppressed) pictures of him in traditional Muslim garb had been made public back then. Ditto probably for his transcripts and the like. He was elected, at least partially, by hiding his past and his roots from first IL voters, and then later the rest of us."

Fox news ran the Jeremiah A. Wright: "God Damn America" on a loop 24/7 and Obama was still easily elected.

ie after (8) years of Cheney/Bush all things were possible!

Heck, even racist/clueless Trump could have run as a Dem and got elected. ok, I exaggerate!

Drago said...

Threepines: "Who has a fawning acceptance of torture tactics employed by ISIS?"

You have no idea of the torture tactics employed by ISIS.

And that is because you are a moron who somehow now apparently want's to label FDR as a terrorist sympathizer because he ordered the fire bombings of multiple enemy cities in Germany and Japan.

Why don't you take a moment to list some of the more common torture tactics actually employed on a broad basis by ISIS and then connect those to Trump?

We will not be holding our breath.

Paco Wové said...

Why have Muslims gained such moral authority and status as an officially aggrieved minority?"

The left is always looking for pets to shelter from the wrath of the awful proles: blacks, gays, Muslims, etc. The thought of protecting oppressed brown people makes them orgasmic.

Achilles said...

shiloh said...
"Trump is going to win a landslide if he survives"

"Landslide w/a qualifier ~ too funny."

There are already 2 documented attempts and the people who run the FBI and DOJ are brazenly corrupt Hillary pawns. They are also contemptuous of their opponents just like you are of people who disagree with you here.

You people are oblivious to the anger out here at the corruption and moral depravity that exists in DC. Oblivious enough to do something stupid like assassinate Trump not realizing what would come next.

Achilles said...

"Why have Muslims gained such moral authority and status as an officially aggrieved minority?"

Because the progressive goal is to tear the social fabric of this country apart, the fabric that places value on local communities, and replace it with a dependence on the state.

Paco Wové said...

"The trolls are out."

O, that this too too Unknown cloud could condense, and resolve itself into naméd trolls...

Jupiter said...

William said...
"Other religions do not breed or promote mass murderers in the way Islam does. At what point are we entitled to look askance at Muslim immigrants. What is prudent and what is prejudice?"

False dichotomy. Prejudice is prudence.

Our brains are roughly the size of a grapefruit. It is inconceivable that they contain an accurate model of the entire world, or even of all the other brains in the world. The only way we can possibly hope to defend ourselves against the innumerable hazards the world contains is by relying upon extremely simplified models.

AReasonableMan said...

shiloh said...
Fox news ran the Jeremiah A. Wright: "God Damn America" on a loop 24/7 and Obama was still easily elected.


And Clinton released this photo. The idea that someone who dresses once in the traditional dress of a given country automatically takes on the ideology/religion of that country is so stupid that even the US electorate rejected it.

AReasonableMan said...

shiloh said...
ie after (8) years of Cheney/Bush all things were possible!


I thought so at the time but we still don't have universal health insurance, although the situation is improved.

Hagar said...

Oil did not just mean money; it also meant (war)ships, trucks, and tanks to save us from the Hun.

"Why have Muslims gained such moral authority and status as an officially aggrieved minority?"
I don't think they - the Muslims that is - have; it is the loony left that immediately leap to their defense by pure reflexive reaction, which most likely will benefit "the Muslims" about as much as their defense of "the African American community" have benefitted our Black citizens.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Why the almost fawning acceptance of Islam, Muslims, etc, by the left, despite their continued attacks on the rest of the world?"

Because Muslims and Leftists both hate Western Civilization. Ironically, the Leftists are influenced by what Jacques Barzun identified as one of the predominant strains of western thought in the modern world - primitivism. Since Rousseau, one of the founding fathers of the Left, idealized the "noble savage," there has been a tendency on the left to romanticize non-white, non-Christian cultures as more "authentic" and morally superior to the civilization of the Europeans and Americans. Mix that with Marxism and post-colonial guilt, and you have a potent recipe for gradual societal suicide.

shiloh said...

"I thought so at the time but we still don't have universal health insurance, although the situation is improved."

Was mainly talking about Americans electing a Muslim from Kenya, who wakes up every morning hating America/Americans, president.

Re: Bernie's universal health care, free college tuition, etc. even if the Dems had a filibuster proof senate and control of the House it's very unlikely. And also very unlikely Dems will control the House anytime soon.

But again, never thought a Black man would be elected president in my lifetime.

Thanx Dick/George ...

Threepines said...

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/03/07/trump-wants-to-compete-with-isis-on-torture-waterboarding.html

Trump Wants to 'Compete' With ISIS on Torture, Waterboarding

Donald Trump said Sunday that he favored changing U.S. military and international laws against torture and waterboarding that ISIS ignores.

"I would like to strengthen the laws so that we can better compete" with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Trump said in an interview that aired Sunday on CBS TV's "Face the Nation."

Citing ISIS' beheadings of U.S. prisoners and other brutal tactics, Trump said, "We have to play the game the way they're playing the game. You're not going to win if we're soft and they're -- they have no rules."

On waterboarding, Trump said that the law should be changed "at a minimum to allow that." Waterboarding was one of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" previously used by the United States.

Bruce Hayden said...

Which is my answer of why the left has been in such desperate denial about the intentions of a large numbers of Muslims in this world to convert us to their religion by any means available. The answer, I will suggest, is that their leadership has been bought and paid for. Completely. And everything else flows from that. As they have strayed from their Christian (and Jewish) roots, they have lost track of why Islam must be fought and stopped. As was done at the gates of Vienna in 1683, and by Charles Martel almost a millennium earlier at Tours, near where a spiritual descendant of those Islamic conquerors struck last weekend.

There are good reasons why the lands controlled by Islam fell so far behind the western world technologically over the last half millennium. The oil rich Gulf states can buy the latest weapons from us, as well as their private jets, limos, and cell phones. But the entirety of the Muslim world has shown itself incapable of much innovation at all. And their idea of freedom is the freedom to commit honor killings of wayward female relatives. Probably the biggest reason for this backwardness and inability to innovate or advance socially is rooted in the fatalistic surrender taught by their Prophet. The world is better because Muslims were stopped at Tours and Vienna, and evicted from Spain by the Monarchs who also funded Columbus. The people arguing for tolerance of Islam and Muslim, who demand that we treat them better than we treat everyone else, have forgotten that the reason that they can make these arguments is because Islam was stopped and rolled back. And, they have forgotten because they have lost sight their Judeo/Christian roots.

AReasonableMan said...

Bruce Hayden said...
And, they have forgotten because they have lost sight their Judeo/Christian roots.


For most of the time period you mention christians were solidly aligned against jews. There is no Judeo/Christian tradition any more than there is a Judeo/Christian/Islamo tradition. All three religions have much in common but, in the tradition of the narcissism of small differences, have spent most of their history acting prejudicially towards the other groups. Of course there are endless schisms within these religions that have resulted in equally bitter enmities.

Jupiter said...

AReasonableMan said...

"For most of the time period you mention christians were solidly aligned against jews. There is no Judeo/Christian tradition any more than there is a Judeo/Christian/Islamo tradition."

I seem to recall that Hillary made a few sharp comments about Barky pack in 2007. That doesn't mean they aren't both red-blooded exponents of the Communist tradition.

Jupiter said...

And while I'm on the subject, Islam is a Christian heresy, with some pagan mumbo-jumbo tossed in. So, there is a "Judeo/Christian/Islamo tradition" in Islamic societies, (Christ is a lesser prophet in Islam) and a Judeo/Christian tradition in Christian societies (Christians quote the Old Testament). The Jews got their monotheism first, and don't see the need for any revisions.

hombre said...

I see that liberal morons, including those at the NYT, say ISIS claims must be "viewed with caution."

Why? What, exactly, do the morons think is the down side of taking ISIS at its word? Might we mistakenly think they mean us harm? Might it be a problem for Crooked Hillary whose stupidity in the Middle East combined with Obama's to enable ISIS. Is it because NYT has such high regard for accuracy that we need such a warning?

Which do you think?

exiledonmainstreet said...

" There is no Judeo/Christian tradition any more than there is a Judeo/Christian/Islamo tradition."

Sure, there is. Christianity's roots are Jewish and the Old Testament is included in the Christian Bible. Islam, being the youngest of the three faiths, incorporates elements of the 2 older faiths while entirely missing the spirit of both. Judaism owes nothing to either of its' daughter religions; the Talmudic tradition evolved in relative isolation. Christianity owes nothing to Islam.

"the tradition of the narcissism of small differences"

Uh, affirming or denying the divinity of Christ is hardly a "small difference." Nor is accepting Mohammed as the Last Prophet and the Koran as the divine word of Allah.

Mohammed led an army. Jesus did not. Christian martyrs were and are put to death for their faith. Islam's "martyrs" take infidels with them. Islam did not spread from its' Arabian homeland all the way to Spain in the west and Indonesia in the east because of missionaries going tent to tent to preach the Good News. It has been a warlike and violent religion since its' beginnings.

It is suicidal to wage war when you are a member of a tiny, stateless and widely dispersed minority, so Jews did not after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. When Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire and spread throughout Europe, the underdogs became overlords. However, Christianity has always made a distinction between church and state - Caesar and God - that ancient Judaism did not and Islam never has.

It's utter nonsense to call those differences "small."

Bruce Hayden said...

Yes, Jews and Christians were adverse for much of the time between the destruction of the Second Temple and the present. But what must be remembered is that Christianity was an offshoot of Judiasm. Arguably, Judiasm split after the priestly version of that religion was destroyed by the destruction of where the priests gained their power (the Temple) into what is now Rabbinical Judiasm and Christianity. What must be remembered is that Jesus, his 12 Desciples Paul, etc, were relatively observant Jews little different than the ancestors of modern Jews. Which is why, to this day, Christian churches routinely include Old Testament readings with the New in their services. Mohammed was neither Christian nor Jew, but lived among them, and for awhile tried to bring them along, before moving away from them and their theology. There is a much stronger connection between the teachings of Judiasm and Christianity than with Islam. One of the big differences involves personal responsibility. How can you be personally responsible if your actions were in submission to the dictates of your religion and your God? And, yes, I think that this emphasis on personal responsibly for one's actions came to Christianity from its roots in Judiasm. And, yes I think that this has grown stronger in Christianity as our 2,000 year fight with our Jewish brethren has waned.

Rusty said...

" Achilles said...
Every attack by Muslims and every stupid response by Clinton is another nail in the coffin.

Trump is going to win a landslide if he survives."

You're not the first person I've heard voice this concern. To be honest I hadn't thought about it, but going by how unhinged these leftists get I suppose it should be a concern. I mean people are having breakdowns over Bernies treachery.

AReasonableMan said...

exiledonmainstreet said...
It's utter nonsense to call those differences "small."


They are small when compared to the views of scientific humanists, buddhists, hindus or Australian and New Guinea religions. It depends on the frame of reference. In the broader frame those three monotheistic religions have a lot in common.

exiledonmainstreet said...
Islam did not spread from its' Arabian homeland all the way to Spain in the west and Indonesia in the east because of missionaries going tent to tent to preach the Good News.


Nor did christianity. It was spread through the barrel of a gun. Look at the history of Africa or the Pacific. The missionaries nearly killed surfing in Hawaii, a genuine crime against humanity.

EMD said...

"And these are the ones who fall under the influence of leaders like Trump and other despots."

Yes, they are the same. Trump, to his credit, has killed millions.

Rusty said...

Bruce Hayden @ 11:30
And because of those traditions we have western civilization. When you question the will of Allah you get your throat cut. When you question the will of god you get universities. Islam turned its back on knowledge in favor of orthodoxy.

Bruce Hayden said...

Yes, there has been some conversion to Christianity by the sword (or by the gun), and some to Islam by prostelization. But you ignore that those examples you use of conversions to Christianity by the sword were mostly actually by prostelization. It was the missionaries who did most of the work. Yes, the natives could look at the religion of their conquerors and see the advantages of conversion. But for the most part, it was voluntary on the part of the converted. It wasn't like Islam, which means in some interpretations "submission". The basic difference is the free will I mentioned earlier.

hombre said...

Bruce (10:52): "Dr K asks an interesting question. Why have Muslims gained such moral authority and status as an officially aggrieved minority? It hasn't been that many centuries since Christiandom was fighting for its very survival against attacks by Islam."

"Centuries?" It hasn't been days since Muslims killed Christians and others all over the world. Muslims are murderers who kill hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people each year. (Try a Google to find out how many. The answers will tell you more about Google politics than about Muslim killers. Then try "TheReligionofPeace.com.).

The anwer to your question is that Muslim status is derived, as is that of other victim coalitions, from the fact that they are a growing Democrat voting bloc. There is no rational justification.

Drago said...

I see that Threepines has nothing to offer, as expected.

I fully expected at least that Threepines might want to simply list those torture techniques applied by his beloved islamist murderers at Bataclan.

You know, the typical using of knives to pop out eyeballs, cutting of mens genitals and shoving it in their mouths while they die, ramming knives into the genitals of women...stuff like that.

I wonder if that is why the left is so adamant about importing so many unvetted muslims. The left is so self-loathing in terms of their hatred of western civilization that perhaps in some sick way the lefties would see that kind of punishment as just.

But note precisely what Threepines as your typical leftist (possibly paid) poster did: while not criticizing his/her/xim/xer beloved islamist murderers directly for their actual torture he/she simultaneously assigns that torture to Trump and attempts to hold him accountable for that lie.

It's true: leftism is a mental disorder.

Drago said...

ARM: "They are small when compared to the views of scientific humanists, buddhists, hindus or Australian and New Guinea religions"

The more the islamist murderers continue with their rampaging ways the harder those on the left will attempt to minimize those acts while simultaneously attempting to assign equal blame to Christians.

Threepines is demonstrating that same technique in this very thread re: Islamic actual torture (as opposed to pretend waterboard torture) and Trump.

It will always be thus.

damikesc said...

What do you think is observed here on a daily basis among the majority rightist commenters? Are you completely unaware? Then you have commneters like Michael above who seem to take on the role of gatekeeper.

There is ample disagreement here. We just don't deal with trolls well.

And we have to deal with the Lefty world all of the time. Lefties avoid conservatives as much as they can.

Browndog said...

The anwer to your question is that Muslim status is derived, as is that of other victim coalitions, from the fact that they are a growing Democrat voting bloc. There is no rational justification.

True, but Bruce was also correct; as are several other factors.

It was said that the reason the Labour Party opened immigration and imported half of Pakistan into the U.K. was "to ensure another Margaret Thatcher could never be elected."

Bruce Hayden said...

Here is the basic difference - the difference between a carrot and a stick. Christians tell and show you the advantages of their religion, mostly leaving it up to you whether or not to convert. Air conditioning, good medical charge, etc may be compelling no reason no to convert, but a carrot, nevertheless. Islam essentially says to convert or be heavily taxed (if Christian or Jew) or die (if not). The stick. Submission. This has been the case for 1400 years in countries conquered by Muslim armies, and given their actions where they have become large majorities ties here, and esp in Europe, nothing has changed.

Michael K said...

"Michael above who seem to take on the role of gatekeeper."

I would appreciate some help in figuring out how to block trolls who are obviously DNC minimum wage types.

I guess Ann likes to see lots of comments. I'm getting used to you and I guess we will be inundated until the election.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that it is far beyond the fact that they are a growing Dem voting block. Blacks are taking a back seat to Islam. Hispanics. Asians in particular. At least in this country. Which is why I think that their money is maybe a bigger factor. Sometimes, like with the Clintons, it is blatantly obvious. Sometimes, not so much. But the money is there.

Michael K said...

"Nor did christianity. It was spread through the barrel of a gun."

No, it was spread for centuries by example. Then the Arabs came.

Now, you have a point about Hawaii. It was said the missionaries "came to do good and ended up doing well" but I don't recall any murders, except that of Captain Cook who murdered by Hawaiians on his third visit to the Islands.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Dr K - bets on whether the MSM remembers and notes that both the Hillary campaign and the DNC have operatives on the ground in Cleveland organizing and preparing to disrupt the Republican convention, when the "spontaneous" demonstrations start?

Bruce Hayden said...

What Dr K is alluding to is that it is pretty common knowledge that the Clinton campaign has hired an army of bloggers to do exactly what we have seen here - dumping campaign talking points on fora like this,attacking Trump and the Republicans when they can, and trying to change the subject when they can't.

I think that I first started strongly suspecting this with the comments of "Miriam", who seemed to have been mostly devoid of personal experiences, except the time she gave the moving story of why she had to have an abortion. A story right out of a Hillary playbook, showing why late term abortions are morally justified. Happily married 30 something who tragically found out in late term that her child would be massively deformed. Etc. more supposed personal data in that one post than in all the rest of her posts, and carefully calculated to justify 9th month abortions. Probably heightening my suspicions was the fact that she tended to comment the same time every day. And, yes, she was doing the same sort of trolling that we see with some of the Unknowns.

AReasonableMan said...

Bruce Hayden said...
Here is the basic difference - the difference between a carrot and a stick.


The spread of christianity had two main phases, under the Roman empire and then under the British and Spanish empires. This is not exactly a coincidence. The primary difference between Judaism and the other two religions is that the jews never had a decent empire.

Browndog said...

Raised Catholic, then became a Lutheran convert, I was always taught that Islam was just another "good" mainstream religion. Like most Americans, I suppose, I never really knew much of anything about it. Like many Americans, after 9/11, I wanted to learn more about it.

I think this lecture by Dr. Bill Warner pretty much crystallizes what Islam is:

Why are we Afraid

It's 44 minutes. Like with any good lecture, it flies by.

Sami said...

Michael K,

What is your problem with commenters who present a differing opinion to yours or the majority here? You want want to "block" such commenters? You actually admit to wanting to block opposing voices? Dude, you need to do some self reflection. I kind of doubt Althouse is on board with your desire to block liberal commenters.

hombre said...

ARM (12:23): "... small when compared to the views of scientific humanists, ...."

Humanism is a series of beliefs akin to a philosophy. "Scientific humanism" is a phrase used by a few, very few, humanists to imbue humanism with unwarranted stature. It is not scientific.

Additionally, exileonmainstreet is correct. Your "small differences" comment is absurd. The divinity of Jesus is the central tenet of Christianity and is not recognized by Islam or Judaism. How extraordinary that you would engage with exileonmainstreet on the topic without knowing that.

And: "Nor did christianity [sic.]. It was spread through the barrel of a gun." This statement is based, no doubt, on your vast personal experience with gun-totin' missionaries.

"It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so." R.Reagan. In your case this observation is an example of Christian charity.

exiledonmainstreet said...

The spread of christianity had two main phases, under the Roman empire and then under the British and Spanish empires

There might have been forced conversions under the Spanish Empire in South America, but not, I believe, under the other two. Of course,during the Reformation countries went Protestant or stayed Catholic but Christianity was spread under its' initial expansion by missionaries and martyrs. Ireland used to be proud that it was the only country in Europe where no blood was shed when that country became Christian. They did not mean Christians shedding the blood of recalcitrant natives (which was done from the very start in the Islamic world). They were proud that Irish natives did not martyr any Christians.

FranklinRoos said...

"Lefties avoid conservatives as much as they can."

Except for the few lefties that come here to comment among the sea of righties.

Michael K said...

"your desire to block liberal commenters."

Oh, I was just commenting that she seems to like a lot of anonymous trolls commenting.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"They are small when compared to the views of scientific humanists, buddhists, hindus or Australian and New Guinea religions"

Doubling down on stupid I see. The central tenet of the Christian faith is that Christ is God and died to redeem mankind. And that religion has molded the civilization you live for the past 2000 years. If you want to talk religion, it would be a good idea to actually learn something about the creeds you are criticizing.


"It was spread through the barrel of a gun.Look at the history of Africa or the Pacific."

Christianity existed for a very long time before European imperialism. BTW, the first Christian communities in Africa were in Egypt and were nearly wiped out - via the sword - by Muslims. Today's Copts, on the verge of extinction due to the Muslims, belong to one of the oldest Christian communities on earth.

It's funny, the stories I have read of Christians hiding in Roman catacombs and being torn apart by wild animals to amuse the pagans somehow neglect to mention the Glock that St. Paul used to brandish when he was forcing someone to get baptized. You really are obsessed with those bad, bad guns, aren't you, ARM?

" Look at the history of Africa or the Pacific. The missionaries nearly killed surfing in Hawaii, a genuine crime against humanity."

Yeah, it's right up there with 9/11. If you're a Beach Boy.

The missionaries nearly killed surfing in Hawaii, a genuine crime against humanity.

Paco Wové said...

"I would appreciate some help in figuring out how to block trolls who are obviously DNC minimum wage types."

Blog Comment Killfile – it works.

hombre said...

Franklin (1:57): "Except for the few lefties that come here to comment among the sea of righties."

Yes, but unfortunately they frequently come without the distinctions necessary to engage intelligently. Despite the obvious conservative bent of commenters here, there is a wide diversity of opinion. This puts lefties at a disadvantage, because they work from a political/intellectual template. For them, "diversity' is a political tool used for exploitation of designated victim blocs.

Michael K said...

I guess I would have to identify all the trolls to use the killfile.

It's OK. I can just ignore them. It's just interesting that so many show up as Trump gains a lead over the pantssuit.

It's also interesting that now I suddenly have to prove I'm not a robot. Maybe Ann is taking steps.

Paco Wové said...

It's quite simple – a tedious commenter appears, you click on the 'hush' button, all the tedious commenter's comments go away. You can always turn them back on again. There are several I have in time-out right now.

mockturtle said...

The left is always looking for pets to shelter from the wrath of the awful proles: blacks, gays, Muslims, etc. The thought of protecting oppressed brown people makes them orgasmic.

It would be great fun for us and pure misery for them if we shipped them all to Yemen.

Alex said...

I fully expected at least that Threepines might want to simply list those torture techniques applied by his beloved islamist murderers at Bataclan.

You know, the typical using of knives to pop out eyeballs, cutting of mens genitals and shoving it in their mouths while they die, ramming knives into the genitals of women...stuff like that.


Out of sight, out of mind. If a leftist doesn't want to believe that happened, it didn't happen. Even if it did, it's OUR fault somehow that they want to pop our eyeballs out and castrate us. Fuck getting nuked, this is what the Muslim savages really want to do to us. They are demonic fucks and if France doesn't elect the right-wing party at the very next election they just committed national suicide.

David Begley said...

According to The Religion of Peace website 615 killed in July so far.

The Cracker Unknown said...

"Except for the few lefties that come here to comment among the sea of righties."

Ah, but you're being paid. Doing the Lord's work nevertheless, I'm sure.

AReasonableMan said...

hombre said...
The divinity of Jesus is the central tenet of Christianity and is not recognized by Islam or Judaism. How extraordinary that you would engage with exileonmainstreet on the topic without knowing that.


Pretty much everyone on the planet knows this, maybe not some Chinese. Yet, in the bigger picture the three religions have a lot of similarities. I am sure that you can recognize that the monotheistic religions are more similar to each other than they are to the thousands of other religions and philosophies that have been promulgated at some point in human history. Although christianity and islam are currently massive religions in terms of number of adherents, monotheistic religions are a relatively small subset of the total number of different religions and they derive from a relatively limited geographical area. More similar than different by global historical standards.

Rusty said...

Except that, ARM, christianity/judism out of all the other main religions has a fundmental difference that led to us being here.'Can you think of what that difference is?