May 13, 2016

Did the Biden-Warren feeler get enough of a reaction to support putting Plan B into effect?

A rough picture of the effect:



Tops on that list is "OMG Joe Biden Wanted Elizabeth Warren to Be His Hypothetical Running Mate" by Ben Mathis-Lilley at Slate. It begins:
You guys! I have been telling friends, colleagues, Chipotle cashiers, and random people on the street for months that Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren would make a great "unity ticket" in the event that the Democratic primary ended up in a stalemate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Biden is a well-liked "establishment" Democrat with foreign policy experience, Warren is a tough-talking progressive who'd appeal to the left wing but isn't so radical that she'd alienate moderates ... it just works. Hillary is going to win, of course, so this is all moot, but who cares, because it turns out that JOE BIDEN AGREES WITH ME....
The link goes to the Politico story — which I'm characterizing as a feeler — "Biden wanted Warren as his VP/The Massachusetts senator was 'noncommittal,' but warned of a backlash against his pro-Wall Street votes in Senate."

That is a feeler, isn't it? I'm assuming that was put out there to see how much excitement it would generate, how many influential people would jump and start promoting that escape from what could be portrayed as the sinking ship that is Hillary. The FBI investigation is out there, in position to have a major or meager effect. You guys!

62 comments:

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mccullough said...

How could they take away the nomination from Sanders if Hillary gets indicted?

Gahrie said...

See: Torrecelli

EDH said...

Warren knows she could not weather the storm of campaign outside running for senator from Massachusetts.

The US Senate is a perfect perch for operating her grandiose scam of fund raising and rhetorical do-nothingness.

tim maguire said...

It's impossible to imagine that the Democrats are really as suicidal as they would need to be to support a Hillary candidacy. IMO, it's been the plan from the start for Hillary to draw fire in the primaries, then dump her and draft Biden at the convention.

Bernie has been a thorn in that plan. Hillary has to beat him fair and square to keep Bernie Camp in the reservation, but Bernie won't lie down and die like he was supposed to. So Hillary has to keep working to beat him, then withdraws "for family reasons." Biden comes in to excite the moderates, Warren snags the VP slot to excite the Berners, and the Democrats cruise to victory over whichever chump the Republicans put up.

Ann Althouse said...

"How could they take away the nomination from Sanders if Hillary gets indicted?"

Warren trumps Sanders.

Sanders himself will be expected to step down for Warren. She's the real progressive dream.

tim in vermont said...

So everyone this cosseted guy knows is going to vote for Hillary.

Ann Althouse said...

The Biden plan could explain Hillary's lackluster performance.

LYNNDH said...

Warren a moderate? That says it all in the Democrat party.

tim in vermont said...

All criticism of her for the abuse of affirmative action will be called racist. So she's home free.

Birches said...

I've been thinking that Biden is the third way everyone has been hoping for.

David Begley said...

Hillary barely wins the nomination. After the convention, she sinks in the polls. Obama okays the indictment. It is either Biden-Warren or Biden-Sanders.

The deal is that Hillary gets pardoned by Obama.

Patrick said...

It's a trial balloon flossing Warren as Hillary's VP

holdfast said...

Probably best not to use the word "feeler" in proximity to the name "Biden", IYKWIMAITTYD. Especially when there's also a woman's name involved - though if he tries anything funny she'll scalp him.

mccullough said...

Warren is very wealthy. Sanders isn't. His supporters are naive but not stupid. Harvard is for the 1%. Inculcating wealthy progressive law students for $400,000 a year is pretty easy to attack. So is living in a $5 million mansion. She's a paper tiger loved by wealthy progressives.

holdfast said...

"Biden-Sanders"

Dynamic duo of old white man and older white man. That will really sell with the diversity obsessed Demo Party. Oh, well one's a non-practicing Catholic, and the other a non-practicing Jew.

FullMoon said...

Jesus ! Can you imagine how Trump would go after these two? The phony Indian B.S.,
and Biden's tall tales? Average voters do not know about the lies of Warren and Biden. Trump may be an ass much of the time, but everybody already knows that.

zipity said...

"Warren is a tough-talking progressive who'd appeal to the left wing but isn't so radical that she'd alienate moderates"


Hoo Hoo.....Haw Haw....Stop it...you're killing me...

Elizabeth "Fauxcahantas" Warren isn't a Left Wing Radical? Compared to who? Lenin?

tim maguire said...

Ann Althouse said...
"How could they take away the nomination from Sanders if Hillary gets indicted?"

Warren trumps Sanders.


I disagree. Every Bernie fan I know loves Warren just as much (if not more), but Hillary has to beat Bernie before she can step down. Any other path to a non-Bernie nomination is a "the fix is in!" event.

damikesc said...

Biden is an imbecile and Warren is brutally unlikeable outside of Bernie circles. They think THAT is a dream ticket?

I'm just wondering how these "Biden" groupies expect to ignore state law in MULTIPLE states in terms of date to actually get on the ballot. Prepare for multiple lawsuits on that ground if they try it.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Sanders himself will be expected to step down for Warren. She's the real progressive dream.

So Hillary can't even beat the guy the progressives don't really want? How pathetic is that?

Nonapod said...

I know it sounds absurd to many people around here, but a Biden-Warren ticket could be a real threat to Trump. Biden has the goofy charm and a sympathetic story (his son) to suck in some of the centrist vote. And Warren has the progressive street cred. to appeal to the left (which includes most of the current Bernie supporters). They could provide a "reasonable" alternative to Trumps bombast.

Rick said...

Nonapod said...They could provide a "reasonable" alternative to Trumps bombast.

Have we ever had a presidential candidate who said the opposing party wanted to put blacks "back in chains"? Did Republicans stoop to this even in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War?

Paul said...

" The Biden plan could explain Hillary's lackluster performance."

You make it sound like Hillary is throwing the fight but really this is the best she can do. She wants the presidency with every fiber in her being but she's just weak with lousy instincts and an unappealing personality.

chickelit said...

Ann Althouse said...The Biden plan could explain Hillary's lackluster performance.

Biden -- more so than even Hillary -- is an Obama third term. Exactly who is supposed to get excited about Biden and switch? Bernie is an anti-Establishment candidate. Biden personifies the Establishment. I don't get the math.

Rick said...

Ann Althouse said...
[Warren's] the real progressive dream.


True. She created a propaganda study claiming people with 500k mortgages and 100k in credit card debt which included 3,000 in medical bills were "medical bankruptcies". This study was crucial in creating the CFPB which allows government complete control over retail banking. Nothing excites progressives more than people using their position to fraudulently extend government control.

chickelit said...

No Democrat is going to "make progress" until they pledge to undo some of the hubris of the current Administration. It's not rocket science. But undoing some of the present Administration is still Democratic heresy. They haven't yet had their revolution.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I think Trump winning the R nomination is really bad news for Hillary. Not because Trump will turn out to be uniquely devastating to her. Instead I think it frees Democrats from feeling they have to support her bloated,corrupt carcass. They have watched Republicans kick their establishment candidates to the curb and they have to be at least a little jealous. Especially when faced with having to vote for the biggest establishment goon imaginable in Hillary. Combine that with the common MSM knowledge that Trump can't win and I can easily see a new surge for Bernie or other alternatives.

Paul said...

Imo Trump beats Biden-Warren too. His message has more support at this juncture than "more of the same" no matter who's the standard bearer. Plus he will have plenty of material with which to work with those two as well.

Zach said...

The Massachusetts senator was 'noncommittal,' but warned of a backlash against his pro-Wall Street votes in Senate.

This is a Warren trial balloon, isn't it? She's so perfect, her only flaw was telling off The Man when he tried to coopt her.

robother said...

Biden's only way to become a fresh face: if Hillary cops a plea/gets a Presidential pardon (withdrawal from the Presidential race is punishment enough), he comes in to save the Party. "I'll only serve one term, then turn the reins over to my VP Elizabeth Warren."

Even Trump is rendered speechless at this surprising turn of events.

The Lone Ranger and Tontette win the day.

Zach said...

Warren would be a bad choice for Hillary, I think. I think the line against Trump is that you're a safe centrist who isn't going to screw things up too badly. So then you choose a radical who has her own disqualifying issues?

Do you really want to have the fake Indian fight all over again, in front of an audience that hasn't heard it before?

The thing about boring centrism is that you have to be committed to boring centrism. You can't throw that away to solve this week's problems, then come back to it later.

damikesc said...

Do I need to remind people that Biden was assassination protection for Obama? He was named because nobody wanted him as President so Obama was safe?

Yancey Ward said...

"How could they take away the nomination from Sanders if Hillary gets indicted?

This is asking the right question- and it is a problem for the Biden Convention Parachute Plan. I don't think a lot of people thought Sanders would get this far. I don't think the party's honchos (House/Senate Democrats) really want to have to run next to an avowed Socialist- especially one whose spending plans are truly batshit crazy. This is probably the primary reason why there is so much pressure being put on Sanders to abandon his run now, so that he isn't the presumed alternative if Clinton is forced out of the race after June. I think a lot of people who had Biden in mind as the backup really expected Clinton to crush Sanders and O'Malley by early March so that neither of them had legitimate claims to the nomination at a brokered convention. Sanders realizes this, and that is why he intends to go the rest of the way. I think, in the end, Democrats will either stick with Clinton, or bite the bullet and deny the nomination to both Clinton and Sanders, but Sanders is making that harder to do.

tim maguire said...

Nonapod said...I know it sounds absurd to many people around here, but a Biden-Warren ticket could be a real threat to Trump.

A Biden-Warren ticket up against anything other than a Trump-Sanders ticket would run the table. Althouse has a core of very smart commenters, but a lot of these people live in a fantasy land.

Big Mike said...

@tim maguire, Trump could just keep running video clips of Biden perving on the wives and young daughters of people nominated for or appointed to federal office.

Bob Boyd said...

Does Hillary have experience dealing with women who are off the reservation?

Paul said...

" A Biden-Warren ticket up against anything other than a Trump-Sanders ticket would run the table."

Yes because people are so satisfied with the way the country is right now that more of the same is just the ticket.

campy said...

Any democrat ticket beats any republican ticket.

By Any Means Necessary.

bgates said...

"Running Mate" is Warren's given name in Cherokee.

John said...

Yeah, Joe Biden for Prez. That's the ticket.

When was the last time we had a sitting VP get elected president? Well, Bush in 88 but then you have to go back 150 years or so to find another.

When was the last time we had a VP who became president, usually by death but also Bush and Nixon, who was viewed as a successful president? Nixon is the only one who got re-elected and he was viewed as so bad that he got hounded from office.

The last successful VP who became president was, arguably, Coolidge.

Yeah, that's what the Dems should do, nominate a VP. It's worked so well in the past.

I might also point out that we have not had many senators who have had successful presidencies. Obama, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, Truman come to mind. Anyone have any exceptions to the rule?

John Henry

Achilles said...

The last person who thinks they will lose is the candidate. Will they be able to convince Hillary that it is over? Will she let another woman be the "first" president?

Cruz is infinitely smarter than Hillary and look at how he acted the day of the Indiana primary. That made no sense to go bash Trump in very personal terms. It damaged the party as well. It was irrational in every sense. But every one of these people thinks they are the second coming of Jesus. Will Hillary be able to act for the good of the democrat party in a way Cruz failed to do?

Seems unlikely. But if Hillary has another stroke she will probably call it.

John said...

the more I think about it, the more I like the (albeit unrealistic) idea of a Trump Sanders ticket.

The VP is not a member of the executive branch and has no executive powers except those delegated by the president. Their sole constitutional role is to be president of the Senate with no official powers currently. Like the Speaker of the House, they have a backup role in the event of presidential death.

So, Trump Sanders win. Trump says to Bernie, "You are president of the Senate, I expect you to stay over there unless I become incapacitated. I am eliminated the executive offices that the VP has had for a while. Gonna turn them into a billiard room for the WH staff. I think it is time we clarify the division between the executive and legislative branches."

Bernie gets to be VP and gets neutered.

John Henry

Paul said...

Hard to imagine Trump ever accepting the idea of Sanders as VP if for no other reason than it would be a powerful incentive for some crazed lefty to assasinate him.

damikesc said...

A Biden-Warren ticket up against anything other than a Trump-Sanders ticket would run the table.

Not seeing how as neither have a clue politically how to campaign for anything. Warren didn't exactly blow out Brown in a state she should win by 30 without effort.

sy1492 said...

Its all a master plan by Obama. Ask yourself, what is a guarantee way to get Biden the Democratic nominee? Let Biden run for the nomination? Too many unknowns and pit-holes ...especially Uncle Biden as a candidate.

The best path for Biden to get the nomination is for Clinton to win the nomination and then Obama undercutting Clinton by indicting her. The Democrats will have no choice but to pick Biden as a replacement. This feeler of Biden/Warren is a trial balloon for potential VP pick.

Achilles said...

Biden-Warren is the most likely outcome at this point. But:

Hillary has to be convinced to get out of the way. That is the a large hurdle now. She probably isn't going to win another primary in this race. You have to convince her she is going to lose. If her only path to an Obama pardon is to get out peacefully she will probably take it if she thinks she is going to lose. She is going to be the last person in the world that thinks she is going to lose.

Then you have to convince Bernie to get out. I don't see that happening if Biden is on top. Not peacefully anyway and if Bernie refuses to go quietly he can beat Warren for the bernie bro's. Multimillionaire fake indian harvard profs are target rich environments for people like Bernie. At this point the only 3rd party candidacy likely is a Bernie run if the green's or another party gives him the nom.

Or maybe Bernie goes peacefully. I don't see it though. I think he see the polls that have him ahead of Trump and he believes. Bernie, like all the others, will be the last person to accept he will not win.

Also I can't wait for Trump's nickname for Biden. Biden is so average. One of the few politicians in this race with top of the bell curve intelligence. Even Hillary is a couple standard deviations to the right.

Achilles said...

sy1492 said...
"Its all a master plan by Obama. Ask yourself, what is a guarantee way to get Biden the Democratic nominee? Let Biden run for the nomination? Too many unknowns and pit-holes ...especially Uncle Biden as a candidate.

The best path for Biden to get the nomination is for Clinton to win the nomination and then Obama undercutting Clinton by indicting her. The Democrats will have no choice but to pick Biden as a replacement. This feeler of Biden/Warren is a trial balloon for potential VP pick."

They have to get her to go willingly. If they don't get her to go willingly Obama will be in front of congress within a month if she turns on him and his legacy will be even worse than it is now going to be. She has enough dirt to put even Obama in jail.

You may laugh at this. It is the only reason Hillary is not in jail for life.

sunsong said...

Biden/Warren would be an excellent ticket, imo.

TA said...

I'm a moderate. I live in Massachusetts. She would alienate moderates.

The Godfather said...

I’m glad to see that others have come around to the idea I suggested some months ago: That Obama will use the (real) threat of indictment to “persuade” Hillary! to withdraw so Biden can become the Democratic nominee. However, that plan has run into a serious problem because Hillary! has done so abysmally in the primaries/caucuses. If Hillary! withdraws before the convention, there will be so many Sanders delegates that it will be difficult to assure that the convention would nominate Biden over Sanders. Therefore, Hillary!’s withdrawal would have to come after she is nominated by the convention (as still seems most likely).

However, what I don’t know – but someone else in this conversation must know – is who chooses the replacement for a presidential candidate who withdraws after the party convention? In 1972, when McGovern forced Eagleton to withdraw as the Democratic candidate for Vice President, it was the Democratic National Committee that appointed Shriver (McGovern’s choice) for VP. Would the same apply if it were the Presidential candidate who withdrew? If so, Obama would probably have no difficulty in persuading the DNC to pick Biden. However, Biden would probably have to run with whoever was the convention’s candidate for Vice President. Hillary!, as the Presidential nominee at the convention, is unlikely to have picked Warren for VP, so the Biden-Warren ticket may be a bridge too far. If Hillary! does select Warren as her VP, then that will be a sure sign that Operation Biden plan is underway.

Nonapod said...

Achilles said... If they don't get her to go willingly Obama will be in front of congress within a month if she turns on him and his legacy will be even worse than it is now going to be. She has enough dirt to put even Obama in jail.

I've been ruminating on this for a while now. Collectively what the Clinton camp has on the Obama camp could be devastating, possibly even orders of magnitude worse than the most fevered imaginings of us Conservatives. Who was the real decision maker during Benghazi? The IRS scandal? Fast & Furious? The VA scandal? This is a situation of mutually assured destruction. And the fallout would haunt the Democrat party for generations.

Susan said...

" And the fallout would haunt the Democrat party for generations."

I admire your optimism, Nanopod, however, I'm guessing the party of Jim Crow would be fine with it after a nanosecond.

Heck, they are all fine with it now.

cubanbob said...

The Democrat lineup is composed of felonious traitors, communists, idiots and fake Indian champaign communists. Does this look like a sensible Plan B in any sane plane of existence? Trumpy McDonaldface looks like a model of sense and sensibility compared to the Democrat mob.

bagoh20 said...

It's a hell of a system we've evolved here where the most dangerous and most disliked are the "best tickets". That would be awesome if we also agreed to give them the amount of power that such distrust and disdain should suggest would be wise, but instead most people seem to want these dangerous unlikable people to do everything for us. Our democracy really needs better voters.

JPS said...

I don't think this has been part of an Obama plan all along, but I do think that if Hillary Clinton looks weak enough against Trump, either an indictment or unmistakeable warning signs will come down before the convention. And I've thought for awhile that Warren excites both the Democratic base, and those yearning to vote for the historic First Woman President. We'll see.

mccullough,

"[Sanders'] supporters are naive but not stupid." No, but they can forgive some personal peccadillos, like wealth in a socialist. It's a bit like Alec Baldwin being viewed an ally of gays despite unleashing anti-gay slurs every time he gets really pissed off at a reporter. The left can forgive a lot as long as you meet certain baseline requirements, or offer certain advantages.

Achilles,

"Cruz is infinitely smarter than Hillary and look at how he acted the day of the Indiana primary. That made no sense to go bash Trump in very personal terms."

I think he knew the game was up and just wanted to vent some entirely sincere disgust with Trump while he still had a microphone. Professional? No. Admirable? Maybe not. But understandable, I think, even if you disapprove.

Clyde said...

Jeez, another lying woman Democrat. Diogenes would have no more luck trying to find an honest woman in the Democrat party than he would finding an honest man.

Pat said...

Because Warren is relatively new to the national scene, a lot of people assume she must be fairly young. In fact, at 67 next month, she's not even two years younger than Hillary. That's the problem with most of the bruited-about tickets; they need somebody who isn't likely to be using a walker in the next few years.

wildswan said...

I think Biden would be Jeb-Bush type candidate - everyone likes him till he runs for President. Then demands are made and this likable guy, good on policy, isn't up to it.

Plan B seems so unreal. Picture it as it would work out: A debate between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren at the Democratic Convention before a floor fight as Warren tries to win over Sanders supporters - Debbie Wasserman Schultz feeling the Bern becomes the face that launched a million voters Donald Trump's way - And pass the popcorn time heals all the conservative wounds as they gather each night to watch the fun.

OR The Democrats just announce that Hillary is withdrawing and X, who ever it may be, is to be the candidate. Pause, while people check to see if this an Onion story. Then, no. Just, no.

So what is Plan C? Get Donald Trump to revert and enter the Democratic contest? He agrees if the party leaders will rename the party Trump and use his logo. They are discussing it when the people break in.

Achilles said...

JPS said...

"I think he[Cruz] knew the game was up and just wanted to vent some entirely sincere disgust with Trump while he still had a microphone. Professional? No. Admirable? Maybe not. But understandable, I think, even if you disapprove."

Cruz and Trump had an obvious non-aggression pact going for over 6 months. Cruz was smart enough to know he needed Trump to take out the Jeb/Rubio/"deep bench." But he didn't see Trump had far more political talent than Cruz did.

Understandable? Yes. Infantile? Yes. Does Cruz regret saying all of those things today? It cost him a chance at VP and possibly a supreme court nomination. He had better regret it because I really wanted him in either of those positions.

Fabi said...

I think a Biden/Warren ticket is a possible winner. Joe gets the Obama third term vote; Warren gets the socialist/first woman vote. How the Democrats would react to losing Hillary and leap-frogging Bernie I haven't a clue. Those hard feelings could negate the large turnout that those two might have expected if they had been in the mix from the start.

Steve said...

"Plan B"?

There's an abortifacient joke in there somewhere.