March 3, 2016

"If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished."

Mitt Romney doles out his fatherly warnings.
“Isn’t he a huge business success and doesn’t he know what he’s talking about?” Romney asked mockingly. “No, he isn’t, and no he doesn’t.”...

Romney also slammed Trump as “a phony” and “a fraud” who is “playing the American public for suckers."
ADDED: I used the verb "dole," so I feel I should add "Bob Dole Warns of ‘Cataclysmic’ Losses With Ted Cruz, and Says Donald Trump Would Do Better."

AND: "He is basically arguing for gridlock, deadlock and I know from my own reporting that Mitt Romney is putting himself out there. He will never say this, but he's putting himself out there as the party's alternative to Donald Trump." Said Andrea Mitchell.

265 comments:

1 – 200 of 265   Newer›   Newest»
Milwaukie guy said...

Mitt really kicked The Donald in the balls. Show your tax returns! Release the NYT recording!

Good times.

D. B. Light said...

He's just handed Trump months worth of campaign commercials. Contrast what Romney said about Trump during the last election cycle. This smells of desperation.

eric said...

Why didn't this Romney show up when he was up against Obama?

I think he doesn't understand. This pushes more people to vote for Trump. Sure, like Rubio dick jokes, the Trump haters love it.

But everyone else? I think it works in Trumps favor.

traditionalguy said...

Mitt just won the nomination for Trump. And all Mitt gets is a free hat.

Meanwhile Romney's Sports Authority bites the dust.

This is a bad day for Romney.

Bay Area Guy said...

I like Mitt. I voted for him last time.

But he is so off-base here it is pathetic.

Sitting on the sidelines for 6 months, and then trying to conjure up the Trump Bogeyman this late in the game? Again, pathetic.

The good news is that it might bolster Trump. It certainly plays into the narrative that loser establishment types are trying to thwart Trump.

Jane the Actuary said...


I haven't read his speech yet (listening to a training call at work now), but I don't know how much good this is going to do.

Scads of people have now decided that "two wrongs make a right" - and the mistreatment they feel they've suffered a the hands of The Establishment justify a vote for Trump.

Maybe, maybe, incessant airing of commercials about the scam of Trump University might have an effect.

Heck, I wrote my own "you can't vote for Trump" blog post. But I hardly expect I'm going to change minds.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/janetheactuary/2016/03/do-i-have-to-say-it-you-cant-vote-for-trump.html

Steve M. Galbraith said...

Romney thinks that Trump is not qualified and will do harm, deliberately or not, to the country.

Is he supposed to be silent? I guess those are the Trumpian principles that his supporters have come to know and love.

Trumpian principles. Here they are: Trump in Time magazine today: "I am the most successful person ever to run for president."

Nobody reads the bible more than him, nobody has done more for equality than him, and nobody who has run for president was as successful.

And oh year, he never heard of David Duke.

Benito Mussolini wasn't this pompous.

YoungHegelian said...

I would be a little more sympathetic to the GOPe if once, I mean, just fucking once, their warnings of the apocalypse that will accompany a Trump candidacy would include some words along the lines of mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

But, no, it's all about just how stupid & racist you people are! Where the hell did we ever find you? Just a sure fire way to get the rubes back in the fold, doncha know.

For Gov. "I won the first debate, so it's time to switch to autopilot" Romney to lecture the rest of the GOP base on how they're going to lose with Trump, is, I'm sorry, just really rich. It really is.

coupe said...

This event outlines very well the corruption of the Republican party, and the reason why millions of Americans want to see it destroyed by an outsider.

If Trump gets elected, the Republican party is dead as we know it. If he does it right.

You look at McConnell, and all the other geezers, and they are so old now, they spend most of their day waiting for the ex-lax to kick-in.

This is the last dying cries of a seals being bludgeoned to death, so we can wear their fur to the new party next year.

Blood coming out of wherever...

Big Mike said...

If Mitt Romney had been willing to speak as forthrightly about Harry Reid and Barack Obama four years ago, the GOP would not be dealing with Donald Trump. Mitt had his chance and muffed it badly. He needs to get back on the sidelines and shut up.

HT said...

I'm learning more about Drumpf from Mitt Romney than I am from Drumpf.

Just watched a snippet on CNN. He looked relaxed and good.

I go back and forth about what this says of the electorate who is so nutso for him. The reason is, I hear a lot of frustration with the usual bland way these contests are conducted, and the non-answers given. On the other hand, I look at Rubio and Cruz, and see that they are very definitely staking out their positions, so lack of clarity should not be an issue. In this Mexico and Central America bashing season, does their being of Latin heritage have anything to do with the emotional appeal of Drumpf?

Limited blogger said...

Glad Romney lined up all the Trump 'vettables'. Turns out they are a big nothing burger. Thanks, Mitt!

n.n said...

Romney had an opportunity. It has since passed. He is now projecting.

tim maguire said...

Interesting that Romney warns of danger to the country and Dole warns of danger to the party.

They might both be right.

David Begley said...

Don't stop disbelieving.

Mitt is only previewing what the Dems will roll out in the Fall.

Trump might be able to beat Clinton, but not Biden.

Brando said...

This is a game changer! No one can persuade people--especially Trump fans--the way Romney can!

I don't know if this is so much Romney and company trying to actually stop Trump (as that looks pretty impossible now) or just wanting to go on record as disowning him so they have no association with whatever he says next.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tank said...

At the next Trump presser Romney will be standing next to Christie behind THE MAN. As a crowd warmup, they'll play Romney's thank you to Trump when he endorsed him.

Limited blogger said...

Romney needs to take comedy lessons from Marco. He constantly stepped on his laugh lines, and .... waiting for the applause sign to go up was out of sync.

Limited blogger said...

Tank, You win the thread!

Romney will be Trump's next hostage.

Henry said...

I'm glad Mitt Romney spoke up, but he sure wasted the opportunity. There are two ways to attack Trump. One is to ridicule his pompous self-regard. The other is to dissect his business history. Romney is utterly incapable of sustained ridicule, but he could easily have tackled the dissection. Instead of reading off his laundry list, he could have itemized, in detail, Trumps' record of bankruptcy, misrepresentation, and fraud. But blah.

What we end up with is eminently forgettable. It may hearten the field, though.

The Cracker Emcee said...

The conservatives I work with were laughing out loud about this. I voted for Mitt (anybody but Bark) but, like Kerry, Carter and Edwards before him, he becomes a punchline everytime he intrudes on the public conciousness.

ScottD said...

Romney was praising Trump's business acumen when Trump supported Romney, I expect Trump supporters will flood the internet with Romney's prior positive statements.

And now Romney calls Trump a phony? Romney! the abortion supporting (until the presidential bid), guy who implemented single-payer healthcare in Massachusetts. A guy all true conservatives were obligated to rally around on 2012. I'm not for Trump (but would vote for him over Hillary) but he has exposed the nakedness of the political class like none other.

FullMoon said...

Romney supposed that Trump's tax returns would show minimal charitable contributions, and littl support for vet groups. I think Mitt has seen the returns, or has been given that specific info.

BYW, Trump would beat Hillary my using personal attacks on her and her friends character. She can out talk him on substance, but he will destroy her with low info and easily swayed voters . Mitt lost votes and was put on defense for strapping his dog to the roof of his car. That is how ignorant the general public is.

Limited blogger said...

So Romney has provided the evidence needed by those who will not vote for Trump, to not vote for Trump?

eric said...

This has become very common practice.

The GOP Establishment, NRO, George Will, Michael Medved, etc, make their living off the premise, "If you don't choose who we tell you to choose, we will burn your candidate down."

They tried this with the tea party and in a lot of cases it worked. The idea is, elect our guy, or else! They helped tear down and defeat several tea party Senate candidates and then thumbed their nose and said "We told you so!"

That's why we are pissed. And that's why they are starting the nevertrump meme. Because if he wins the primary, not even the Democrats will work as hard as the GOPe stooges to defeat Trump.

It disgusts me.

coupe said...

I was kind of scratching my head with the words "prosperous future".

You people are aware we are 20 trillion in debt, with 300 trillion in unfunded liabilities, right?

With the middle class pretty much history, I guess I'm not much excited by any candidates leadership.

I mean, none of the candidates have even talked about the economy.

Steve M. Galbraith said...

If Romney had remained silent the Trump supporters could argue - with merit - that his silence meant that he had no problem with a Trump presidency.

So he speaks out and he's attacked for speaking out. Should he have remained silent?

And of course no one wants to address the specifics of Romney's charges.

Why didn't Trump run against Obama? Romney took several years off doing so. Could he have done more? Sure but I don't think attacking Obama the way some wanted would have worked.

In any case, Romney did a lot more trying to turn Obama back then did Trump. It's not even close.

Henry said...

YoungHegelian wrote: I would be a little more sympathetic to the GOPe if once, I mean, just fucking once, their warnings of the apocalypse that will accompany a Trump candidacy would include some words along the lines of mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

That's a very good point. It wouldn't even need to be a mea culpa, but simply an acknowledgement that Trump's supporters have good reason to be frustrated. Peggy Noonan and Walter Russell Mead have both written some good pieces on the subject.

HT said...

Reduce reduce reduce !!!!

Romney is way way way better looking than Drumpf. And isn't that what it's all about? Do you want a president who looks like ... THAT?

Rubio is better looking! Muuuch better looking.

JSD said...

Republicans are like the Chicago Cubs. They like to lose and wear it like a badge of honor. Candidate that fail some impossible standard get reviled and trashed. One group of people stayed home in 2012 and a different group will stay home in 2016. The result will be the same.

Limited blogger said...

Trump's response in 20 minutes. Debate tonight. Political junkies are main lining this stuff.

M Jordan said...

The biggest problem here and elsewhere in EstablishmentLand is that these attacks indirectly are mocking over a third of Americans who support Trump. Suckers? I don't particularly like that tag. Rubio's "con man" routine does the same thing. So I'm so stupid I get conned by an obvious con man? Not enjoying that characterization of me.

Brian said...

It seems that all Althouse is capable of doing is an idiotic WaPo style section kind of analysis of language, tone, ect. You live here too, Ann, and you're not immune from the consequences if President Trump causes rapid decline mixed with chaos.

HT said...

"Here’s the most concerning thing I learned: Trump appears to have overstated his income, by a lot, which could be the reason he has so far tried to avoid releasing his returns.

"What is Trump’s actual income by my calculations? If I am generous, about half of what he claims, but possibly as little as a third. If that’s the case, and I believe it is, Trump’s net worth is likely a lot less than what he says."

http://fortune.com/2016/03/02/donald-trump-tax-returns-income/

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I think maybe it was Ross Perot that George Will (or somebody like that) sought to neutralize by saying that his business acumen would be of no use to a president powerless to sack Congress, the Supreme Court, or the several states.

Funny how we haven't even gotten to that point with Donald Trump.

YoungHegelian said...

You want to know another reason why the party regulars don't want Trump?

In DC & the general political world, when a new administration starts up, it's time to divide the spoils of the political appointee jobs. Counting not just the jobs themselves, but the fact that am appointee can steer federal funds to his buddies in the private sector, it all adds up to a lot of money at stake.

In DC, all of these guys know, both in inter- & intra-party, who's on whose team. They know if there's a Cruz administration who'll be handing out the jobs, vs who will be doing it if it was a Bush or Rubio admin. To put in Laslo-ian terms, the office seekers would all know whose dick they have to suck to get job X in the administration.

But, Trump. Trump's such an outsider, he doesn't have a DC machine. He doesn't have long-standing ties of fealty in the Republican ranks. What's his hierarchy? Who's his gatekeeper? Who knows?

So, whose dick does a guy/gal have to suck to get a job around here? Nobody knows! And it's driving them crazy!

Birches said...

@brando

I think you're right. This speech wasn't made to convince voters. It's staking a position with the political class and letting anyone who might pull a Christie that they might be on their own.

gadfly said...

Mitt Romney and Bob Dole are part of the over-the-hill-gang responsible for creating the Trump Hive. The sad part is that the defensive nature of the Hive is such that they don't understand that the best quarterback, Ted Cruz, should be starting for the Republican team but he is #2 on their depth chart.

M Jordan said...

"In any case, Romney did a lot more trying to turn Obama back then did Trump. It's not even close."

Did he? It seems to me he is showing more spunk in attacking Trump than he ever showed in going after Obama. But I get that. Obama was Achilles, dipped in the River Styx and invulnerable to all attacks (the River Styx is today known as the Mainstream Media). I mean, remember the roder clown who dared to have a bull chase him around the pen? He lost his license and was forced to go to sensitivity class.

The Scots-Irish right has never been dipped in any magic rivers. They instead are the target of all kinds of bigotry, despite the fact they fight our wars in larger numbers than any other ethnicity. Trump is their boy. He has been dipped in the River Styx, in this case that river is his own immense ego.

Hagar said...

Jubilation T. Cornpone.

HT said...

I'm (one half) scotch irish, please do not feel sorry for me!

Steve M. Galbraith said...

Obama was Achilles, dipped in the River Styx and invulnerable to all attacks (the River Styx is today known as the Mainstream Media).

As you point out, Romney could not attack Obama the way Trump supporters and others wanted him to.

In any case, failing to go after Obama enough is hardly a response to Romney's criticism of Trump.

The Trump supporters who scream about the abuses of Obama are silent when Trump implicitly says he'll do the same thing. On executive orders, on libel laws.

He has no understanding of the limits of the presidency or the constitution.

But as we've said ad nauseam, his supporters don't seem to care.

traditionalguy said...

Biden has more personality than Trump. But we are electing a competent leader this time. Not a politician to lie to us.

HT said...

Oh, and Drumpf ain't my boy. Does being Presbyt. make him S-Irish?

gerry said...

Benito Mussolini wasn't this pompous.

But Obama was.

Gahrie said...

Oh boy...I'm sure all those Trump supporters angry with the Republican Establishment will change their minds now!

What Dean Wormer wasn't available?

This was just pouring gasoline on a fire.

Too bad he couldn't have attacked Obama this way when he had the chance....but then the Republican establishment has always been more comfortable attacking the Republican base than they have Democrats.

Sebastian said...

"Rubio's "con man" routine does the same thing. So I'm so stupid I get conned by an obvious con man? Not enjoying that characterization of me." Neither do Trump U graduates.

@YH: Yes, a mea culpa would have been nice. Yes, Mitt is the wrong messenger. Yes, there's plenty of blame to around the "GOPe." Nonetheless, it is still necessary to warn the marks against the con.

Tank said...

coupe said...

I was kind of scratching my head with the words "prosperous future".

You people are aware we are 20 trillion in debt, with 300 trillion in unfunded liabilities, right?


You people?

What is that, some sorta doggy whistle thing?

Debt? LALALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU !!!!!

cubanbob said...

David Begley said...
Don't stop disbelieving.

Mitt is only previewing what the Dems will roll out in the Fall.

Trump might be able to beat Clinton, but not Biden.

3/3/16, 12:00 PM"

Biden? Now that's comedy gold! The man so stupid he was selected as Obama's assassination insurance is going to be invincible in a match up with Trump? With the quips, one liners, gaffes and foot-in-the mouth between the two of them if the campaign were on pay-per-view we could rollback a yuuuge chunk of the national debt. Maybe more with the foreign rights. I can see the posters now: The Fight Of Century; Plugs vs The Wig.

pellehDin said...

So all the GOPe "leaders" who declare that they would vote for Hillary over Trump, or sit out the election which is the same thing, are doing so out of concern for America's future prosperity and peace.

If Trump would declare that he would have these people undergo psychiatric evaluation after he is President, I would have to agree. For their own good, of course. This is clinically insane.

traditionalguy said...

Trump has such a loyal following that Romney's half ass attacks imitating Rubio only wins Trump more support. Sorry guys. That's how it works.

The GOP had better triple the Number of ballots on hand for November's election or the movement will overwhelm the polls.

Larry J said...

I voted for Cruz on Tuesday but if Trump is the nominee, I'll vote for him in November. As bad as Trump may be, he's still a damned sight better than Hillary or Sanders. I'll then go home and weep for the future of my country and my grandchildren. Out of a nation with some 320 million people, are these the best candidates we can get? Apparently so.

Smilin' Jack said...

Mitt Romney doles out his fatherly warnings.

Strap your dog back on your car and go back to Loserville, Mitt. And this time stay there--that poor beast has suffered enough.

Bay Area Guy said...

Obviously, every election season creates tension and excitement, which causes otherwise smart folks to make errors in judgment.

Heck, in 1968, the Democrats were rioting in Lincoln Park in their own Democrat City (Chicago) at their own Democratic convention. This helped elect Richard Nixon -- thanks, Rioters!

In 1992, I remember screaming at my stubborn best friend that his voting for Ross Perot was stupid, pointless, and would simply help elect this slick talking southern bullshit artist from Arkansas, Bill Clinton. I think I got an apology for that one, 10 or so years after the fact.

In 2000, there were the multiple state and federal lawsuits between Gore and Bush over improper ballots, and 2 huge SCOTUS decisions, resolving it in favor of Bush. That was pretty tense and exciting too!

So, with this perspective and in this context, in 2016, we examine the Donald Trump reality show. It is highly entertaining and somewhat stressful. But, it is par for the course, and not really as tense or disruptive or toxic as the past elections noted above.

What strikes me, though, is all the ordinarily smart Republican/Conservative types losing their mind over Trump. I saw a piece by my hero, Thomas Sowell, caterwauling about Trump, how we needed to rally around Cruz -- this late in the day! Now, we have Romney making pointless anti-Trump speeches, after National Review already published pointless anti-Trump editorials.

Here are the facts:

1. Trump has brought many more voters to this election than the Dems.

2. Trump is winning the primary fair & square.

Here are my conclusions:

1. Trump will likely win the GOP nomination.

2. Trump would make a better President than Hillary.

3. GOP/Conservative types should be joining the Trump brigade, now.

It really is that simple. Why some folks (even rich, intelligent, conservative folks) can't or won't grasp this -- is a bit baffling, but somewhat fun to watch.

Drago said...

From a purely communications effectiveness perspective, what were the intended audience groups for Romney's offering and what was the expectation for Romney's ability to move the needles for those groups?

I can't think of a single group of like-minded believers who would alter their previously established positions based on Romney's attacks.

Talk about "fighting the last war". This is like "fighting the war from 3 wars ago!"

Brando said...

Right now I think this "never Trump" movement is for the most part Republicans and conservatives who are appalled by what they see as Trump's (1) bigotry, (2) possible insanity, and (3) corruption. They want to signal that they have no part in it, and don't want to be associated with it. They may have some hope that the anti-Trumps will be a majority of the party and that might be enough to deprive him of the delegates he needs, but that hope is a slim one so they are just trying to take a pass on being associated with what they don't like about him. A lot of Republicans did the same when Goldwater was running, and he was (unfairly, I think) called a warmonger and racist.

The real sign that they're serious about stopping Trump will be if they recruit a conservative to run as a third party candidate in all 50 states and pump money and organization into that effort. That would be the point of no return, going much farther than "don't associate me with that guy" and actually threatening his chances in November.

While Democrats should be licking their chops over this, the other news of the week is Sanders is almost finished, so they may be stuck with Clinton--a wounded candidate if there ever was one.

Sometimes I feel as though both parties are conspiring to make me stay home on election day.

Dan Hossley said...

The problem is that only about 35% of Republicans support Trump. Another 35% won't support him.
Trump has devised a great strategy to win the primary and lose the election.

walter said...

Steve M. Galbraith said
So he speaks out and he's attacked for speaking out. Should he have remained silent?
--
With his past glowing remarks about Trump readily available? Yes.

Steve M. Galbraith said...

Trump critic: "Trump is an authoritarian demagogue with no knowledge or concern about the Constitution and the limits on power. He'll abuse the powers much like Obama did. And his views on policies are all over the place."

Trump supporter: "But he'll win!! Don't you want to win!!"

Swell, just swell.

Drago said...

Quite frankly, and as someone who admires Romney on a personal level, I am going to have to slot this Trump-attack into the same failure bin as "Project Orca".

I truly expect better thinking from Romney and his key advisors. 2 years ago I would have said it's hard to believe that these guys could be that tone deaf and utterly oblivious to how rapidly the political environment has been altered in the obambi era, but indeed they have become just that.

John Tuffnell said...

I am disappointed BobDole did not refer to BobDole in the third person. That's something I liked about him.

None of the old guard supports Trump, but they still hold sway in the party. While Trump will be running for President in the fall, I dont think he will be the R candidate.

He should restart the Whig party and highlight whatever that is on his head.

Steve M. Galbraith said...

With his past glowing remarks about Trump readily available? Yes.

So he can't change his views on the man?

Who knew four years ago that Trump was like the way he's shown himself to be?

I didn't take Trump seriously five years ago and he seemed harmless. But he is utterly unqualified to be president.

So he's good at running a business. Fine. Running a business is not like being a president.

Mike said...

Finally we know what a "severe conservative" is. Where was this flamethrower when it really mattered, in 2012?

Fabi said...

Trump's reply will be short and sweet, something along the line of: "Hey, Mitt -- do you like fish sticks?"

Henry said...

The real sign that they're serious about stopping Trump will be if they recruit a conservative to run as a third party candidate in all 50 states and pump money and organization into that effort.

The other strategy would to run some "favorite son" candidates in selected primaries or even selected states. But that's a 19th-century strategy.

Limited blogger said...

Trump supporter: He will build a border wall, guard it, and enforce current immigration laws. He will bring jobs back to Americans.

Trump critic: But he created 'Trump steaks', and the Filet was tough.

Brando said...

"1. Trump will likely win the GOP nomination.

2. Trump would make a better President than Hillary.

3. GOP/Conservative types should be joining the Trump brigade, now."

I suspect most conservatives will make that same conclusion, but at least right now it seems a lot are saying what some conservatives claimed in previous elections--the choices are so bad, even equally bad, that they would be better off sitting it out. The question is whether this changes in a few months before a third party candidate emerges.

HT said...

"While Democrats should be licking their chops over this, the other news of the week is Sanders is almost finished, so they may be stuck with Clinton--a wounded candidate if there ever was one. "

Trump has (sorry, Drumpf) has healing powers - he is making Hillary whole. I was and am very demoralized about her candidacy, first of all I didn't think she'd run, "no way," I thought. But she did, sigh. And - blech. I don't like her for very different reasons than many of you here don't like her, but never mind. My point is while at first I thought about not voting at all (pre-Drumpf), now I think voting for her may not be as bad as a Pres Drumpf. That's what he is doing to my decision process, fyi. I'm sure I'm not alone.

walter said...

So he can't change his views on the man?

His past comments directly contradict too much of what he's saying now. To do this right , he would have to explain his "evolution".
He may have a good message, but he's the wrong messenger.

sydney said...

I think he just persuaded me to vote for Trump.

Brando said...

"I can't think of a single group of like-minded believers who would alter their previously established positions based on Romney's attacks.

Talk about "fighting the last war". This is like "fighting the war from 3 wars ago!"

I imagine they think they're uniting the anti-Trumps, rather than convincing any pro-Trumps. That, and publicly wiping their hands of something they think will be very embarrassing down the road.

As for the last war, that's what the GOP is best at. Look at how in the last two cycles they changed their primary rules, first to extend them to have an "exciting" primary that would generate interest, then to crump the primary dates to get an early leader and avoid what Romney went through, and now I'll bet after this one they will extend the dates again. They keep forgetting you can't go back in time and new campaigns will be different.

Fen said...

If Romney had remained silent the Trump supporters could argue - with merit - that his silence meant that he had no problem with a Trump presidency.

No one cares who Romney supports. He's a loser. He likely went into this presser thinking the public would beg him to enter the race.


So he speaks out and he's attacked for speaking out. Should he have remained silent?

Yes, he should have remained silent. And he's not being attacked for speaking out, he's being attacked for two things: 1) he's a hypocrite who was more than happy to accept the endorsement of "racist" Trump when he was running for office and 2) he's attacking our own team with more determination than he has ever attacked our enemies. Who's side is he on? Ours or the Establishment?

Fabi said...

When former President of the United States Mitt Romney speaks you'd better listen!

Joshua Barker said...

I am so fucking sick of the establishment Republicans and their bullshit!!! Can't wait for the GOP to die quick enough... Go onto the ash-heap of history you traitorous, back-stabbing bastards...

buwaya said...

"But, it is par for the course, and not really as tense or disruptive or toxic as the past elections noted above."

Yet.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Damn, are Republicans TRYING to create a "stabbed in the back" myth? I mean, I know everyone's hot and heavy w/the Nazi comparisons, but if Trump ends up being the nominee and loses in the general how can the storyline that the Republican Establishment's Dolchstoßlegende caused Trump's defeat not take hold?

Limited blogger said...

Remember when Mitt made those disparaging remarks about Trump? Nah, me neither.

Fabi said...

I just saw Mitt's balls on a milk carton.

Rae said...

I look at Trump as both an emetic and a laxative for the system. It's terrible when it's coming out both ends, but you feel so much better when it stops.

The perfect storm would be Clinton being indicted by the Obama justice department just after she gets the nom. Her not being indicted, and mass resignations at the FBI would be nearly as good.

Clinton getting elected, and then it coming out that the FBI recommended charges would be a good consolation prize.

Fen said...

Drago: 2 years ago I would have said it's hard to believe that these guys could be that tone deaf and utterly oblivious to how rapidly the political environment has been altered in the obambi era

Don't be too hard on them. For the last 7 years, they've been dining on steak and lobster with their liberal pals out at Martha's Vineyard. They think Ramen is a rock band or something. Poor dears.

They need to wake up. A Trump insurgency is not the final scene. Its blood in the snow and Anastasia running for her life.

walter said...

The Irony of Mitt mentioning negative quotes that will be played endlessly..

mccullough said...

Mitt Romney denigrated 47% of the population. And now he's worried about the national GOP? The bitter clingers among the 47% are not moved. If Trump can sink the national GOP and make Hillary a weak president, he will have done a service to the country.

Time for the donor class and consulting class to feel the pain.

HT said...

"Maybe, maybe, incessant airing of commercials about the scam of Trump University might have an effect."

This may be the only way. A narrator's voice that is not recognizable. The little paid for blurb at the end would be what people are anticipating. But there's a way to take the power out of that.

Brando said...

"Yes, he should have remained silent. And he's not being attacked for speaking out, he's being attacked for two things: 1) he's a hypocrite who was more than happy to accept the endorsement of "racist" Trump when he was running for office and 2) he's attacking our own team with more determination than he has ever attacked our enemies. Who's side is he on? Ours or the Establishment?"

Had Trump made those statements about Muslims, Mexicans and his KKK flap at the time Romney got his endorsement? At the time I thought the only really controversial thing about Trump was his birther nonsense, which arguably was just nutty but not really racist.

Besides, welcoming a person's endorsement does not mean you think they in turn should be elected president. Between Trump and Romney, only Trump is on record endorsing the other for president.

As for his lack of determination against Obama, I don't defend that (though I doubt hitting harder would have won him the election that year).

dreams said...

These are not facts, just accusations and Romney has hurt his reputation.

"I predict that there are more bombshells in his tax returns. I predict that he doesn’t give much if anything to the disabled and to our veterans. I predict that he told the New York Times that his immigration talk is just that: talk."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/03/mittcarthyism-romney-disgraces-himself-with-dishonest-attack-on-trump/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Birches said...

Apparently #nevertrump people should give up their principles for Team Red...even if the Team leader shares almost none of their values...his jersey is the right color,that's the only thing that matters.

AllenS said...

Perhaps Trump voters should start to threaten the GOPee that if Trump doesn't get the nomination, they will all stay home. How would you like that Trump haters?

Steve M. Galbraith said...

Trump critic: "Trump is an authoritarian demagogue with no knowledge or concern about the Constitution and the limits on power. He'll abuse the powers much like Obama did. And his views on policies are all over the place."

Trum supporter: "But he'll build a wall. And Mexico will pay for it. And all illegals will be gone."

Trump critic: "And how will he do all of this? And how will we be great again? We do have other problems, you know?"

Trump supporter: "Burn it down. Establishment."

cubanbob said...

Blogger Steve M. Galbraith said...
Trump critic: "Trump is an authoritarian demagogue with no knowledge or concern about the Constitution and the limits on power. He'll abuse the powers much like Obama did. And his views on policies are all over the place."

Trump supporter: "But he'll win!! Don't you want to win!!"

Swell, just swell.

3/3/16, 12:43 PM"

Swell indeed. Obama abused and abuses his power in the service of his ideology which has a focus and purpose. With Trump other than illegal aliens and radical Muslims I really don't see any purpose driven ideology. The permanent government tilts left and I doubt Trump will be able to actually abuse power to the extent Obama has even if he really wants to.

If Trump is elected and the Congress stays Republican I expect Ryan to be Trump's Gingrich. Just like Gingrich made Bill Clinton relatively successful a Republican congress will be tougher on Trump and keep him from going too far astray rather than they would allow if a Democrat were elected. Just see how the Republicans have caved to Obama and see how vicious they have been so far to Trump. We may actually have a good divided government if Trump becomes president and the congress stays Republican.

wendybar said...

They really do not understand the anger. This just sealed it for Donald, as the voters are going to stick it to the elites.

HT said...

Dreams, if you read the article I cited above, you'll see that you don't even really need his tax returns to see that he's overestimated his wealth, and by a lot.

Limited blogger said...

Stop with the racist Trump BS. He doesn't like rapists and murderers that crossed the border illegally. He doesn't like Muslim terrorists that got into the country through lax security. And he won't condemn individuals whose beliefs he doesn't know at the time. He certainly has unequivocally condemned those beliefs. Just stop.

Steve M. Galbraith said...

Apparently we're supposed to abandon our beliefs in the rule of law, the separation of powers, integrity, honesty, decency and just win with Trump.

No thanks. Just because you have no principles - other than win at any cost - doesn't mean we have to follow you down this path.

n.n said...

A plausible definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Let's try it one, more, time.

jr565 said...

ScottD wrote:
Romney was praising Trump's business acumen when Trump supported Romney, I expect Trump supporters will flood the internet with Romney's prior positive statements.

And now Romney calls Trump a phony? Romney! the abortion supporting (until the presidential bid), guy who implemented single-payer healthcare in Massachusetts. A guy all true conservatives were obligated to rally around on 2012. I'm not for Trump (but would vote for him over Hillary) but he has exposed the nakedness of the political class like none other.

you want to talk about flip flippers and then support Trump? Are you out of your mind? The guy wasn't even a republican until two years ago. And he has waffled on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE. Worse, he lies about it to our faces.
Also, the trump endorsement of Romeny works both ways. Sure you could say that Romney praised Trumps business acumen. But you could also show, more importantly, that Trump endorsed Romney.
If trump has since proven to be unqualified it's because of things that have occurred since he started running for president. If Trump was this much of a jackass back when Romney was running, I doubt he would have even accepted the endorsement.

Joshua Barker said...

And to clarify, I'm not actually a *yuge* fan of the Trump persona (emphasis on *persona*, cuz I think like any good entertainer, a lot of it is an act for the cameras)... I would have loved to get behind Cruz... But Cruz is still playing by the old rules... Trump is making his own rules, AND HE'S WINNING AT IT!!! So, as much I would love to vote for Cruz, he can't win, because he doesn't realize the game is fixed... A Trump/Cruz ticket would be the best of both worlds... but I am disappointed because Cruz doesn't seem to realize he's not going to win (either the nomination or the general) and is not playing strategically for the #2 slot, which is his best shot... I WANT A STRATEGIC MOTHERFUCKER WHO CAN THINK MORE THAN 2 STEPS AHEAD!!! And so far, Trump seems to be filling that slot successfully... now whether that's of his own doing, or he's smart enough to hire some wicket smart people to do it for him, the end result is the same... So GET ON BOARD OR GO THE FUCK HOME! I held my nose and pulled the lever for both McCain AND Romney... so any "Republican" who doesn't do the same for Trump can go to hell...

Gahrie said...

Apparently #nevertrump people should give up their principles for Team Red...even if the Team leader shares almost none of their values...his jersey is the right color,that's the only thing that matters.

Why not?

That's exactly what the Republican establishment has been telling the Republican base to do ever since 1984.

Limited blogger said...

No one can ever answer Trump Critics (TM) every concern.

Saint Croix said...

Anybody else noticing a theme on Althouse today?!

dreams said...

"Dreams, if you read the article I cited above, you'll see that you don't even really need his tax returns to see that he's overestimated his wealth, and by a lot."

And you feel that is an important issue, I don't. Because it is very hard to correctly value a net worth of someone very rich.

Limited blogger said...

Trump speaking, Trump Critics (TM) can go take a snack break.

Limited blogger said...

Trump is 3D, persuasion Grand Master!! He may not even mention dopey Romney!! This guy is already President.

jr565 said...

Wendybar wrote:
They really do not understand the anger. This just sealed it for Donald, as the voters are going to stick it to the elites.

if trump is the nominee and loses do you not think we will stick it to YOU? Don't think that we won't remember how you sabotaged the chance to defeat Hillary by pushing the worlds biggest buffoon.
Even worse for you would be if he wins. Sometimes the best punishment is getting what you paid for. And I f he were elected, you'd find Trumpbots the most disappointed. Since he's not going to do what he promised. But what he is going to do is going to suck.

Johnny Sokko said...

Steve M. Galbraith wrote: "Benito Mussolini wasn't this pompous"

No, but somebody else was even more pompous.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal."

BHO

HT said...

He's talking Limited but he's not saying much at least not so far.

Limited blogger said...

Trump looking rested, and oh so presidential.

HT said...

He's the unctuous host at the country club. "Please get him out."

jr565 said...

Mcullogh wrote:
Mitt Romney denigrated 47% of the population. And now he's worried about the national GOP? The bitter clingers among the 47% are not moved. If Trump can sink the national GOP and make Hillary a weak president, he will have done a service to the country.

Time for the donor class and consulting class to feel the pain.

is that why you're voting for Trump? Because hpyou want to stick it to the donor class? Republican class envy is just as bad as Democratic class envy. No? And trump is the biggest donor in the business. He even brags bout it. Don't window why you think he'd be your savior.

Johnny Sokko said...

jr565 wrote - "Even worse for you would be if he wins. Sometimes the best punishment is getting what you paid for. And I f he were elected, you'd find Trumpbots the most disappointed. Since he's not going to do what he promised. But what he is going to do is going to suck."

He can't be any worse than the current occupant of the Oval Office.

Brando said...

"Perhaps Trump voters should start to threaten the GOPee that if Trump doesn't get the nomination, they will all stay home. How would you like that Trump haters?"

Every group that does not get the nominee they want threatens this. And every election they get in line. Anyone staying home from voting is going to stay home no matter what, because they don't think their vote matters or don't want to go through the trouble.

"you want to talk about flip flippers and then support Trump? Are you out of your mind? The guy wasn't even a republican until two years ago. And he has waffled on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE. Worse, he lies about it to our faces."

I can't speak for Trump fans, but from their responses it seems they prefer Trump because his hypocrisy is so much more transparent that in a way it seems like something they can count on. It's like asking Bill Clinton to walk your girlfriend home from a party. You don't have to wonder if he's going to molest her, you just know he'll try.

buwaya said...

Trump is an authoritarian demagogue with no knowledge or concern about the Constitution and the limits on power. He'll abuse the powers much like Obama did. And his views on policies are all over the place."

Alien observer seeing it all from 50,000 feet -

"Trump is an authoritarian demagogue"
So is nearly every successful politician.
"with no knowledge or concern about the Constitution and the limits on power'
Ditto
"He'll abuse the powers much like Obama did"
Ditto
"And his views on policies are all over the place"
We have no way to know if anyone's views on policies are realistic, well informed, or anything other than word-associations good enough only for trivial pursuit.

Fabi said...

Fox Radio just played a clip of Mitt attacking Trump. Then they played a clip from a few years ago of Romney praising Trump for his detailed understanding of our economy! Fox Radio! Heck of a job, Mittens. Should have quit while you were merely a two-time loser.

Limited blogger said...

Trump pitying Mitt. The perfect response.

Brando said...

"He can't be any worse than the current occupant of the Oval Office."

Experience has taught me to never think it couldn't get worse.

"Even worse for you would be if he wins. Sometimes the best punishment is getting what you paid for. And I f he were elected, you'd find Trumpbots the most disappointed. Since he's not going to do what he promised. But what he is going to do is going to suck."

But he might be able to convince everyone that he does not in fact suck. He's certainly convinced a lot of people he's a brilliant builder by licensing his name out to others and getting NBC to give him a reality show. I can picture him explaining that -3% GDP growth in FY 18 is actually "terrific" and 10% inflation is "great news".

jr565 said...


"Mitt Romney denigrated 47% of the population. And now he's worried about the national GOP? The bitter clingers among the 47% are not moved. If Trump can sink the national GOP and make Hillary a weak president, he will have done a service to the country.

Time for the donor class and consulting class to feel the pain."

the argument is the tTrump stands for the working man. Well so does talking about the bitter lingers. The 47% of people who pay no taxes are using more than they are bringing in. They are voting for cradle to grave govt. the working class are the ones who have to pay the taxes so that the 47% can bitterly cling.
If people are losing jobs the argument is not that they should want more govt, but that they should get their jobs back. Those are people who want to work or have meaningful jobs, not people living off the dole. And if that isn't you, then obviously Romney wasn't talking about you.
That was the promise made by Obama though. Cradle to grave govt. a lot of people want that.

Limited blogger said...

Presid... I mean Mr. Trump is rolling again. Eight years of American greatness coming our way. Everyday better than the day before.

traditionalguy said...

@ Galbreath...Don't remember winner takes all in tha USA? You need a Parliamentary British system. Or try to be a winner like Trump.There is no other option except losing for the principle. You might want to think that through.

HT said...

He's repeating himself. Economic policy: Apple makes its iPhone in this country.

He forgot to add: Mara Lago hires Americans.

The man is incoherent, talks nonsense sentences.

Gahrie said...

if trump is the nominee and loses do you not think we will stick it to YOU?

We know you will...like you have been doing for thirty years.


Don't think that we won't remember how you sabotaged the chance to defeat Hillary by pushing the worlds biggest buffoon.

The only reason Trump exists is because we remember what you have done to us for the last thirty years. Ryan caving in to the Dems on the budget was the straw that broke the camels back.


Even worse for you would be if he wins. Sometimes the best punishment is getting what you paid for. And I f he were elected, you'd find Trumpbots the most disappointed. Since he's not going to do what he promised. But what he is going to do is going to suck.

You still don't get it....they don't care! Trump supporters are used to disappointment...it is all they have gotten for thirty years. This isn't about electing a savior, it is about punishing the Washington Establishment of both parties. Sanders is popular on the Left for exactly the same reason.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Well President Trump or President Clinton--either way stock in guns & ammo manufacturers looks more and more like a good buy...

Bay Area Guy said...

The fact that Romney is giving a speech against Trump, as opposed to running against Trump -- is all you need to know about today's news cycle.

Trump 1, Romney 0

I say this as someone who really liked Romney, and still likes him. But he is lost on this particular issue (like many conservatives, who are bewildered by Trump).

rcocean said...

Trump calls a Romney a choke artist. Says he did everything to keep Mitt from running again in 2016 because he would be a sure loser.

LOL. True dat.

jr565 said...

M Jordan wrote:
The biggest problem here and elsewhere in EstablishmentLand is that these attacks indirectly are mocking over a third of Americans who support Trump. Suckers? I don't particularly like that tag. Rubio's "con man" routine does the same thing. So I'm so stupid I get conned by an obvious con man? Not enjoying that characterization of me.

Teumbots have no problems vilifying establishment republicans though. And by extension those that vote for them. So you like dishing it out, but you don't like taking it? Can Trump of all people really make the argument that he has a problem with mocking people? Can his supporters after listening to him do stuff like insult McCain as a loser for being captured and tortured REALLY turn around and get offended when they are insulted.
And it's not an insult if you heed the warning. He's being called a con man because that's what he is. Trump U was a con. His stated positions are cons. Don't fall for,the con. If you persist in falling for cons, don't be surprised when people call you rubes.

If it makes you feel better many of the same people were calling Obama con man and saying his supporters were falling for his cult of personality too. Teumbots can recognize the con when it's Obama, and IM SURE we're more than happy to call Obama. Supporters rubes. Because they were.
As someone who thinks both were con men, do you mind if I say that Obama supporters are smarter than Trump supporters? It's an extremely low bar, and is made worse that it's happening he now in the Republican Party. To see people like sarah plain fall all over themselves pushing a big. Govt democrat simply because he likes to stick fingers in people's eyes is an embarrassment to watch.

dreams said...

Trump is extremely sharp today.

Birkel said...

Was Mitt Romney the guy who was right an inordinate amount of the time during the 2012 election? I wonder if we'll look back in three and a half years and say the same thing again.

That Mitt Romney, just can't catch a break, being right all the time!

Gahrie said...

The 47% of people who pay no taxes are using more than they are bringing in. They are voting for cradle to grave govt. the working class are the ones who have to pay the taxes so that the 47% can bitterly cling.

And what exactly have the Republican Establishment done to fix this? Your latest flag bearer famously apologized for even acknowledging that the 47% even exist.

Limited blogger said...

Maybe Mitt can manage some of Trump's world wide work load while Donald tends to presidential duties. We all agreed Romney was a good manager, just not a good candidate.

Fen said...

Even worse for you would be if he wins. Sometimes the best punishment is getting what you paid for. And I f he were elected, you'd find Trumpbots the most disappointed. Since he's not going to do what he promised. But what he is going to do is going to suck.

And that's different from the status quo how? You think Rubio is not going to cave the first time the media calls him a racist? Ryan is not going to pass another multi-trillion dollar wet dream budget for the statists? Oh wait, I know - we need to support Bush so we can get another conservative justice like Chief Justice Its A Tax Not A Fine. Vomit.

Threats of broken promises and betrayal don't resonate when the choice is 1) get conned by Trump or 2) get conned by the Establishment Party (E) for the hundredth time again. At least this way, people get to stick a fork in the eye of the Establishment.

Limited blogger said...

Dow Jones sunk when Romney spoke. It's nicely back in Green with Trump re-assuming control.

jr565 said...

fen wrote:
s, he should have remained silent. And he's not being attacked for speaking out, he's being attacked for two things: 1) he's a hypocrite who was more than happy to accept the endorsement of "racist" Trump when he was running for office and 2) he's attacking our own team with more determination than he has ever attacked our enemies. Who's side is he on? Ours or the Establishment?

he would say that the establishment is on your side. That it's YOU and Trump who is trying to fracture the Republican Party. Temp is attacking his team and alienating hippy swatches of republicans. Usually when a squish gets nominated people will hold their nose and vote for him. Yet, how many republicans are coming out saying this guy is a fraud? A divider and a fool? You need the establishment to win an election. Trump only has 35% of the vote. And many repubs are saying they wouldn't vote for Trump if he was the last man on earth.
As for him being a hypocrite, well trump hadn't yet tried running for president. Nor had he designed to insult all Muslims, all Mexicans, john, McCain, other republicans etc etc etc. he was just Donald Trump.

Also, he endorsed Mitt Romney. What does that say about Trumps temperament?

Gahrie said...

Teumbots have no problems vilifying establishment republicans though.

That's because they have been getting screwed by the Establishment Republicans for thirty years. Thirty years of insults, patronization and disappointment eventually gets to you.

And by extension those that vote for them.

Not those who vote for them, those that kiss their ass and make excuses for them.

Gahrie said...

Usually when a squish gets nominated people will hold their nose and vote for him

And you Establishment lackeys have counted on this for thirty years. Well guess what? This election isn't business as usual for you guys.

Fen said...

Don't think that we won't remember how you sabotaged the chance to defeat Hillary by pushing the worlds biggest buffoon.

So Trump is the reason the GOP couldn't take down Hillary? Interesting.

Establishment GOP: "I promise not to do that thing in your mouth again. Not like the last 12 times. Seriously. Trust me. ... ooops"

Fabi said...

jr565 is rapidly moving into a Chuck-style meltdown. He should probably be ignored until he can get his emotions under control. I'd love to 'Fisk' his comment at 1:34, but I don't want to burn up half a page of pixels.

Up your game.

rhhardin said...

Andrea Mitchell is talking to women.

rehajm said...

So he speaks out and he's attacked for speaking out. Should he have remained silent?

If he believes Trump will be worse than the Democratic nominee, then he should have just endorsed the Democrats. Go stand behind them on the dais.

If he believes Trump is superior to the Democratic nominee, then he should have kept his yap shut. I think Regan said that (sarc). It was good advice.

Gahrie said...

The Republican Establishment is in complete denial, and as long as their are, as long as they refuse to apologize for their past actions, the base will support Trump.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
walter said...

Blogger Limited blogger said...
Dow Jones sunk when Romney spoke. It's nicely back in Green with Trump re-assuming control.
--
Usually it's Obamabots making these kinds of ridiculous types of observations..

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Hmmm, maybe someone should have secured a Loyalty Pledge from Romney. Didn't...didn't the Repub. candidates all make Loyalty Pledges? Are those one way only, though? I mean, it seems silly to say that you require someone like Trump to pledge to not go 3rd party (and support the Republican nominee even if it's not him) but at the same time leave yourself free to decide to not support the Republican nominee if it happens to be Trump. Seems a little one-sided, no?

Fen said...

"Had Trump made those statements about Muslims, Mexicans and his KKK flap at the time Romney got his endorsement?"

What statements. List them verbatim and explain what was so outrageous about them?

Your basic argument against Trump is that he's a meanie.

cubanbob said...

WELL, WELL: Revealed: Obama White House Approved Hire Of Hillary’s Private Email Server Tech. “The document, which The Daily Caller obtained last week through a lawsuit filed against the State Department on its behalf by the watchdog group Cause of Action, confirms that Pagliano was a type of political appointee known as a Schedule C employee. In that capacity, the White House ultimately approved his job, which granted him the official title of information technology specialist for policy and planning.”

Plus: “Pagliano’s involvement with Clinton, her server, and the State Department took on renewed significance Wednesday after it was reported that he is cooperating with FBI investigators in exchange for immunity.”

From Instapundit. If this all pans out it doesn't matter who the Republicans nominate at this point. Even they no matter how hard they try can screw this up. Well, maybe they can but it will be an epic effort to blow the election.

Fen said...

Usually when a squish gets nominated people will hold their nose and vote for him
And you Establishment lackeys have counted on this for thirty years.


Yup. Funny how the base has been lectured to unify behind whatever RINO nominee the Establishment wants in the name of the party. But the first time the Establishment is on the other end of that compromise, they threaten to bolt the party if they don't get their way.

Let it burn. Most of them will switch to Democrat anyway. Its not about the people for them, its about the perks. Its why the GOP Establishemnt has rolled over to Reid and Obama for the last 7 years. Like the cheerleader with her ankles behind her ears, they're just happy to be "popular" with the in-crowd and maybe dine with celebs at Martha's Vineyard.

Brando said...

"Hmmm, maybe someone should have secured a Loyalty Pledge from Romney. Didn't...didn't the Repub. candidates all make Loyalty Pledges? Are those one way only, though? I mean, it seems silly to say that you require someone like Trump to pledge to not go 3rd party (and support the Republican nominee even if it's not him) but at the same time leave yourself free to decide to not support the Republican nominee if it happens to be Trump. Seems a little one-sided, no?"

The candidates sign them, but I'm not aware of any pledge Romney or other non-candidates signed.

I expect Rubio, Cruz et al to give Trump endorsements that will look more like a hostage video than anything else, but it should technically count.

Brando said...

"Plus: “Pagliano’s involvement with Clinton, her server, and the State Department took on renewed significance Wednesday after it was reported that he is cooperating with FBI investigators in exchange for immunity.”"

This is getting interesting. I wonder what the extent of the immunity is? Dems may be screwing up their chance of getting Bernie!

Fen said...

Can his supporters after listening to him do stuff like insult McCain as a loser for being captured and tortured REALLY turn around and get offended when they are insulted?

Yes. I'm a Cruz supporter and a former Marine. Listen closely - I don't give a shit about McCain. Boo-hoo, Trump said something mean, are you going to faint?

And it's not an insult if you heed the warning. He's being called a con man because that's what he is. Trump U was a con. His stated positions are cons. Don't fall for,the con. If you persist in falling for cons, don't be surprised when people call you rubes.

But you don't offer an alternative. Its either a) keep falling for the Establishment con or b) take a chance on Trump. And even if he cons us, at least this time we won't be your bitch again. You're like the abusive boyfriend complaining that we are ditching your ass for a man of low character.

"Trump is the symptom, poor GOP leadership is the disease" - Glenn Reynolds.

You want our trust back? Go to the Texas border and start digging foundations for a wall.

dreams said...

Notice that Its the political elite, pundits and media who trash Trump and not the business people who have dealt with him. He is a well a respected builder in NY who gets jobs done.

David said...

Here are some numbers (popular vote for President in millions.)

2004
Bush 61.8
Kerry 58.9

2008
McCain 59.6
Obama 69.3

2012
Romney 60.6
Obama 65.4

A few things to note:

1. Neither McCain nor Romney exceeded Bush's 2004 total. Neither one attracted new voters to the party.
2. Obama got 4 million less votes in 2012 than in 2008. Yet Romney did not even come close.
3. In 2008 Obama got 10 million more votes than any Democrat had ever received before. The key to his win was bringing new voters to his party.

So now the two candidates who added nothing to Republican support by their candidacies are uniting to defeat by smear the only candidate who has the potential to add to the base of Republican support.

It's not called the Stupid Party for nothing.

Brando said...

"What statements. List them verbatim and explain what was so outrageous about them?

Your basic argument against Trump is that he's a meanie."

I'm not going into the validity or offensiveness of the statements--my point is that what Romney is complaining about now is all stuff that has occurred years after he sought and accepted Trump's endorsement. It's not like these were things he said pre-2012.

HT said...

Again Drumpf does articulate many truths, like the part about the lobbyists, right on Drumpf! I say. And he is an entertaining speaker, so confident and full of himself - this explains the level of enthusiasm. But

blah blah blah blah.....what a moment.

M Jordan said...

Romney said, " He inherited his business, he didn’t create it."

How is this different, materially, from what Obama said about Mitt (and all entrepreneurs in general): "You didn't build that."

Terrible, terrible mistake for Mitt to say this. Really, beyond terrible.

M Jordan said...

jr565 said...M Jordan wrote: The biggest problem here and elsewhere in EstablishmentLand is that these attacks indirectly are mocking over a third of Americans who support Trump.'

Teumbots have no problems vilifying establishment republicans though. And by extension those that vote for them. So you like dishing it out, but you don't like taking it?"

Big difference: Trump's attacks are working. That's the point of earlier post. Romney, in trying to quash Trump, is actually quashing the Republican voter in the process. Not smart politics. Trump, OTOH, in attacking the Establishment crowd, loses NO ONE (no one evens admits to being Establishmentarian) and gains many.

Henry said...

I know from my own reporting...

That's a great way to create an argument by assertion out of thin air.

Henry said...

How is this different, materially, from what Obama said about Mitt (and all entrepreneurs in general): "You didn't build that."

Because it is factually different?

mccullough said...

Jr565,

The 47% pay payroll tax and state income tax and sales tax and property tax. Romney is a fool. They also serve in the military and as police officers, something Romney and his sons are too good to do. Romney was a draft dodger just like Trump. He made a killing buying up companies and cutting people's pay or their salaries while he and his partners paid lower taxes on their "carried interest" profits.

He is every bit the prep school boy Trump was and made his name in politics off his Dad just like W. And he has the gaul to criticize Trump. How old was amity when his Church finally lifted its ban on blacks? 30 years old. Why didn't he leave that hateful church?

Mitt is every bit the opportunist Trump is but he adds his unctuous sanctimony to it. Mitt Romney deserved to lose. Is bad as Obama is, he wasn't born into privilege nor does he think he's better than 47% of the US.

Mitt Romney is a snob.

Fen said...

As someone who thinks both were con men, do you mind if I say that Obama supporters are smarter than Trump supporters?

Why would I mind? All you are telling me is that you don't understand the issue. We know that Trump is not a conservative, we know that he's just a negotiator and that he will offer compromise deals to the Left. We know he is corrupt. And we know that he will not support many key conservative issues.

And yet we still support him.

But go ahead and call us ignorant toothless redneck hicks. Sleeping with our sister in our doublewide, dreaming of a return to KKK lynchings and the nuking of Mecca. Merica!

And then remind yourself your are the "smart set".

Is that Harry Reid calling you? Time to throw your ankles behind your ears again.

Fen said...

Remember how Trump changed the conversation from "how much Amnesty" to "build a wall"

The "smart set". LOL. More like corrupt Establishemnt out of touch with the people they claim to represent. Its obvious now that they think we are too stupid to know what's in our best interest.

So there's the door. Go. We know you are going to switch to Democrat anyway.

Carol said...

As far as racism goes, I think Trump acts more like a normal person in flyover, lacking the pieties and status-signaling of the coastal elites and community leaders, who know how to kowtow.

He either doesn't know or doesn't care just how he is expected to twist himself into knots over it to prove his antiracist bona fides.

God, I hope he never changes.

Brando said...

"How is this different, materially, from what Obama said about Mitt (and all entrepreneurs in general): "You didn't build that.""

Because when you inherit something you don't actually "build it". I'm sure you do see the difference between the two statements???

Now, to an extent the anti-inheritance criticism of Trump is unfair, because he did more than simply sit back and inherit money and laze out. He did a lot of work in the '70s and '80s to take his advantages and build on them--a lot of people with inherited wealth don't even try to do that. But he did have a big running start--when your family is already well connected (especially in NYC, where connections count for much more in that heavily graft and regulated environment) with plenty of capital to start with, and diving into a much cheaper housing market that was about to grow, you have to acknowledge those advantages even while taking credit for what you do with them. You also have to own up to your missteps, including the several bankruptcies and failed ventures. I give him credit for trying, but painting himself as a guy who "only wins" is misleading. Most of his claimed value is in licensing his name (and he inflates that value to an absurd degree--there's no basis for his name being worth "$8 billion" to him).

Credit where credit's due--he's not a "failure" but not an unblemished success either. I'd credit him more if he were more forthright about his advantages and missteps, rather than puffing himself up to absurd levels.

And as for "you didn't build that"--likewise, its' a statement that's partly true (of course business titans depended to some extent on an educated workforce, infrastructure, rule of law) but also misleading (those titans did in fact build when they might not have and deserve credit for their efforts). This "all or nothing" attitude is silly.

Dude1394 said...

I was stunned that he was actively trying to get the party to a brokered convention. Vote Rubio in Florida, vote Kasich in Ohio, vote whoever is leading that is not trump in every primary.

If they want to get rid of trump, their best bet is to tell Rubio to toddle on back home. The trump voters would accept Cruz probably, but never Rubio. But it appears that WANT a brokered convention so they can pick whom they want. Unbelievable.

mccullough said...

Racism is not a big issue in the US. Most homicides are intraracial. Blacks have it tough and demonizing the police isn't helping lower the crime in poor black neighborhoods. A majority of blacks are in the permanent underclass and the Dems or GOP aren't going to change that since they both have written off blacks. Blacks will vote Dem and get basic welfare, shit schools and high crime neighborhoods. The GOP is busy trying to appeal to Latinos who have a better work ethic and are less violent and are a sizable, growing minority.

Both parties have written off working class whites. The GOP figures they won't vote Dem and the Dems figure the same. Looks like they are forming their own party by at least borrowing the GOP for this presidential election cycle. They won't vote GOP again. They will become a third party that will be bigger than the GOP but smaller than the Dem.

grackle said...

If Trump gets elected, the Republican party is dead as we know it. If he does it right.

Maybe, maybe not. I think it more likely that Trump will simply take over the GOP. Why kill an organization that you own?

Should he have remained silent?

Yes, if he intended to have a political life in the future. We Trump supporters will never support Romney in any future political run. I voted for Romney in 2012 and now feel betrayed. A lot of others are going to feel the same. You are done, Romney.

Also, he endorsed Mitt Romney. What does that say about Trumps temperament?

That Trump tried to help Romney win? That Trump was a loyal Republican Party member? Just guesses but the commentor asked the question.

CStanley said...

I'm curious about how Trump voters intend to vote in the Congressional elections. There's so much GOPe animosity, do you still intend to support GOP reps and senators? if you do, then what kind of relationship do you expect to see if Trump gets elected and has a GOP majority Congress? Is it your hope that he will continue the trend toward stronger use of executive power and continued weakening of the legislature, and does that give you pause at all?

cubanbob said...

Blogger Brando said...
"Plus: “Pagliano’s involvement with Clinton, her server, and the State Department took on renewed significance Wednesday after it was reported that he is cooperating with FBI investigators in exchange for immunity.”"

This is getting interesting. I wonder what the extent of the immunity is? Dems may be screwing up their chance of getting Bernie!

3/3/16, 2:01 PM"

The immunity must be pretty broad since Pagliano also took the fifth on Benghazi. I suspect he was given a choice of being given years as if they were days or singing several operas. Not only do the Dems have a yuuuuge problem in the making with Hillary if this pans out that the White House was in on the act Biden is no longer really viable as a Plan B incase Hillary has a sudden health crises. So what do they have left? An old, cranky ex-hippy Communist with some dirt. Now what are the odds the Republicans can find the way to blow this opportunity? One thing about Trump he probably is the only one who just will flay Hillary and Obama alive with this if this has validity to it. All the same, once immunity is granted things are getting very ugly for those involved.

cubanbob said...

Blogger CStanley said...
I'm curious about how Trump voters intend to vote in the Congressional elections. There's so much GOPe animosity, do you still intend to support GOP reps and senators? if you do, then what kind of relationship do you expect to see if Trump gets elected and has a GOP majority Congress? Is it your hope that he will continue the trend toward stronger use of executive power and continued weakening of the legislature, and does that give you pause at all?

3/3/16, 2:30 PM

Excellent observation. If Trump is smart and there is no reason to think that at this level he isn't, he will go to a considerable effort to persuade his supporters to vote R down the line. It insures their support for him. Its not personal, its business.

AprilApple said...

Trump could win in a landslide or lose in one.

I think Drudge is offering up an illusion that it's going to be a landslide.

That said, Romney should have kept his mouth shut.

Anglelyne said...

YoungHegelian: I would be a little more sympathetic to the GOPe if once, I mean, just fucking once, their warnings of the apocalypse that will accompany a Trump candidacy would include some words along the lines of mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Well, that's just it. They're not sorry. They don't think they've done anything wrong, and from their point of view, they haven't. The angry people are losers who just won't accept their loserhood with good grace.

The sad simple fact of the matter is that, aside from exasperated harangues about their alleged ignorance of economics and the inevitability of a borderless world of fungible labor widgets, the GOPe has nothing to offer these people. Nothing.

The only weird thing is that the GOPe still thinks it's entitled to their votes.

mccullough said...

CStanely,

I'm not voting for Trump or Clinton but I'd vote for a candidate of either party for Congress or local government who is going to put fiscal responsibility as the top priority. Also, anyone who is for government reform by getting rid of civil service and government Union protections. Services have to be cut as a fiscal matter but that needs to be coupled with government employees that are responsive and accountable. No more VA or Flint water fuckups, etc.

Anglelyne said...

AprilApple: Trump could win in a landslide or lose in one.

I agree. I have no idea how it all ends up; I'm not even sure he's going to get the nomination.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Brando said...The candidates sign them, but I'm not aware of any pledge Romney or other non-candidates signed.

Yeah, I know only the candidates actually have so sign something, but my larger point was about the purpose and function of a loyalty pledge. The pledge is supposed to protect the party (you may read "establishment" if you like) from the threat of a somewhat-popular candidate who loses the party's nomination going 3rd party and harming the party. It seems like implicit in such a pledge (the "consideration" or other side of the bargain) is that the party/establishment will support the actual nominee. The situation now is that some significant portion of the party leadership/establishment are threatening to NOT support the nominee if it's Trump.
I know the party didn't sign a pledge, but they're the ones who asked for pledges, so it just seems odd that they'd openly talk about breaking their part of the bargain (that the pledge itself represents).

shiloh said...

Bless me father for I have sinned. It has been 3 years, 3 mos & 3 days since my last Althouse confession. My sins, as always, are too numerous to mention ...

So did "you" miss me? Rhetorical. DBQ once quipped, How can we miss you, if you never leave!

mittens, mittens, mittens ~ This totally unscientific poll leads to a totally unscientific conclusion ie Althouse is 95% conservative/Republican and 5% other. Back in Oct 2010 when I first started perusing this blog noticed it was at least 80/20 con and thought, hmm, maybe I could hang here for a while as who doesn't like a con echo chamber.

Which is ironic 'cause I truly believe both Althouse/Meade are core libs, but since her blog is dominated by cons she must acquiesce to her crowd er kowtow to her clients, so to speak. I digress.

So how is this Trump phenomenon working out for y'all? Rhetorical. Indeed, he could have also easily ran as a Dem. He's a regular chameleon or as The Donald would say, I'm an outstanding chameleon!

>

Serious question to Althouse or anyone. Was this blog always dominated by conservatives when it started, Jan. 2004?

ok, since it's been a while, I'll start off slow and then fizzle out altogether.

David said...

As usual Bob Dole is right.

grackle said...

There's so much GOPe animosity, do you still intend to support GOP reps and senators?

Sure, unless of course they insult me because I support Trump.

A lot of GOP pols in Congress will soon realize they can ride Trump’s coattails while he destroys Hillary and Slick Willie in the general. Readers, you can bet that right now they are looking hard at the high turnout and unexpected crossovers that Trump brings to the table. The numbers don’t lie. A winner is awfully hard to resist for your average Congressperson.

Folks, I just do not believe Hillary will ever be indicted. Not by Obama. Hillary knows too much about the Obama regime.

And what’s more if President Trump decided to bring her to trial I think it would be bad for our country. I do not think Trump will, although he might hold it over her head as a threat just for the fun of it. She will have been humbled enough by the Trump landslide that is coming.

Brando said...

"I know the party didn't sign a pledge, but they're the ones who asked for pledges, so it just seems odd that they'd openly talk about breaking their part of the bargain (that the pledge itself represents"

It's absolutely hypocritical. The whole idea of party primaries is to let the voters decide--whether they're only registered Republicans or any registered voter, it's to open up the process. If they don't like the result, then maybe they should go back to the days of party bosses swapping out delegates.

And if they expect party loyalty, they have to give as they receive.

At least party functionaries have to--regular voters obviously can go any way they want, and they always do. The challenge is corralling them in time for November.

dreams said...

I don't know if Trump can win, I know the corrupt liberal media will do everything it can to get Hillary elected.

Birches said...

Since some are bringing up the 47% comment, here's the original thread. Jr is consistent. https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=3434115104600258620

AReasonableMan said...

Much is made of the stupidity of Trump's supporters in vile classist tones but let's look at a post by the anti-Trump crowd.

AprilApple said...
the financial industry that you so vilify? (the same industry that pays for your retirement)


Just how fucking clueless do you have to be to write something like this?

Trump is a flawed character but he is not selling the same harmful nonsense that his opponents have been selling to suckers like April for decades. Here's a clue April, the finance industry is not your friend.

Rusty said...

AprilApple said...
Trump could win in a landslide or lose in one.

I think Drudge is offering up an illusion that it's going to be a landslide.

That said, Romney should have kept his mouth shut.


Just shows you how scared the establishment is. All that graft. Down the tubes.

Rusty said...

AprilApple said...
the financial industry that you so vilify? (the same industry that pays for your retirement)

Just how fucking clueless do you have to be to write something like this?

Guess where your pension is invested.

Fen said...

Serious question to Althouse or anyone. Was this blog always dominated by conservatives when it started, Jan. 2004?

Althouse was a rare bird - a liberal blog that actually ALLOWED conservatives to debate her without getting banned for Thought Crimes. See, for all our difference, what we have in common is a loyalty to the doctrine of Free Speech.

So this became a place for conservatives to actually debate issues with a liberal host actually intelligent enough to engage us.

We've had a few liberals come on go, mostly trolls, but most never take. Apparently, your liberal friends can't survive in a venue that allows for feedback. So you scamper back to your Safe Spaces at Dem Underground or HuffPo.

You should know Shiloh. Most of your contribution to this blog in the past has been shouting "racist! sexist! homophobe!" everytime someone bursts your echo chamber bubble.

cubanbob said...

And what’s more if President Trump decided to bring her to trial I think it would be bad for our country. I do not think Trump will, although he might hold it over her head as a threat just for the fun of it. She will have been humbled enough by the Trump landslide that is coming."

Grackle what you are missing here is that when all is said and done corruption will definitely be part of the picture and trying Clinton for corruption and a boatload of Democrats that will be snared for this will keep the Democrats shell shocked for years. I'm sure Trump or any other Republican president will spare Hillary actual jail time but she will suffer for her criminality.

Matt said...

Mitt, too little too late. Trump's tongue is comfortably down his supporter's throats and you're warning about the dangers of a first kiss....

AReasonableMan said...

To fully understand what an asshole Romney has been today it is worthwhile considering how the Dems will use his speech.

Romney is pure quisling, got rich selling the country to the highest bidder. His father, who actually built something real and created real jobs, would view him as a disgrace and disown him if he was alive today.

Skeptical Voter said...

Go away Mitt. If you think the way to another shot for you to blow a presidential election is to put a verbal torpedo in the Pirate Ship SS Trump, you are sadly mistaken. You blew one presidential campaign when you lost to McCain in 2008. You blew another in 2012. You're going to blow this one because the Hildebeest and her team will be recycling endless video clips from today's speech to take Trump down.

I don't like Trump; but I am going to vote for whatever is "not Hillary" this fall. And it won't be enough--and you'll be the self obsessed jerk who had a big hand in that.

AReasonableMan said...

I am floored by what a complete sleaze bag Romney proved to be today. A master of the universe, who couldn't run a ground game, so filled with self regard and bitterness that he couldn't restrain himself from acting against the best interests of the party that selected him as its presidential candidate just four years ago.

Matt said...

AReasonableMan

As if Trump would ever restrain himself from the 'best interests' if he had a chance. Not likely.

Rick said...

mccullough said...
Racism is not a big issue in the US.


Racism is the most poisonous subject in the country both publicly and privately.

Most homicides are intraracial

Just because racism doesn't lead to murder doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

AReasonableMan said...

Matt said...
As if Trump would ever restrain himself from the 'best interests' if he had a chance. Not likely.


At best your argument is that Romney is just as bad as Trump. Normally, I would be inclined to agree but there is something so unbelievably vile about Romney's actions today that makes that impossible. His contempt for the little people is well known but now that those same people have the chance to have their voices heard for a change, he pisses all over them. Contemptible plutocrat.

jr565 said...

Areasonableman wrote:
I am floored by what a complete sleaze bag Romney proved to be today. A master of the universe, who couldn't run a ground game, so filled with self regard and bitterness that he couldn't restrain himself from acting against the best interests of the party that selected him as its presidential candidate just four years ago.

do you really think either trump OR YOU are stand bearers for republicans? Didn't you vote for Obama?

jr565 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
HoodlumDoodlum said...

Matt said...As if Trump would ever restrain himself from the 'best interests' if he had a chance. Not likely.

So your point is that Mitt Romney's character is no better than Trump's? Trump's that has been endlessly denigrated and mocked, including in this very thread?
Talk about a low bar!

jr565 said...

A reasonable man,
What was so vile about Romey attacking Trump. He laid out exactly why trumps not good as a nominee. Unlike Trump, who demagogues people who he attacks, Romney highlighted just a few of Trumps actual issues and made that the basis of his attack.. That neither he nor any of the Trumpbots never actually address.
Are you just saying this beciase you are carrying water for Trump until the general?
Romney saying trump is not fit beciase of his demeanor (which is a known quantity. So much so that althouse has a blogpost right before this that asks if trump can be the grownup in the room. Would that be directed at ANY other candidate?) and because of his policy suggestions (not that he actually articulates particulars). But trump would say Cruz isn't fit to be president because of Birtherism and will sue him if Cruz doesn't stop being dishonest about him. To engage in Birtherism TWICE with no actual evid nice either time is pretty unseemly. But Romney is vile. If you say so.

robother said...

Our Father, Mitt art in Utah,
Shallow be thy name....

Matt said...

AReasonableMan

I agree Romney's actions this late in the game are odd. He should have said something in November when it might have mattered. At this point it looks like bitterness or desperation.

My point was that Trump even today has floated the idea of running as an independent. If he did that it would destroy the GOP chances at the WH. Trump and Romney are more interested in themselves than in a team.

AprilApple said...

Rusty -

I don't have a pension.

Most people have private investments in IRAs and Roth IRAs and other mutual funds that are tied to the stock market... or finical institutions.

jr565 said...

Hoodlumdoodlum worte:
Matt said...As if Trump would ever restrain himself from the 'best interests' if he had a chance. Not likely.

So your point is that Mitt Romney's character is no better than Trump's? Trump's that has been endlessly denigrated and mocked, including in this very thread?
Talk about a low bar!

TRUMP SET THAT BAR THIS LOW. This election is in the gutter precisely because Trump brought it there. have you not noticed that Trump is actually the instigator in all of this?

AprilApple said...

financial ***

Michael said...

Matt

I think Trump has been pretty clear that he will jump to an independent if the establishment messes with him too much. Romney would be the one not on the team at this point, not the other way around. Romney coming in this late with a lecture to the voters on how stupid and wrong they are is an example of why we are where we are. He does not get it in the least.

buwaya said...

The rumor yesterday was that Romney was going to announce a third party run.
This may be setting the stage.

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