March 19, 2016

"For some in the US This Land is Your Land is an alternative national anthem. And when you’re faced with a threat to democracy and liberty like Donald Trump..."

"... to find out that the guy who wrote it was on to this shit 70 years ago, it gives you the sense that we are right to take a stand. There’s a connection here between Trump Sr and Trump Jr, and that connection is the exploitation of working people. And at the moment Trump Jr is exploiting working people’s fears. He’s a classic blowhard."

Said lefty songster Billy Bragg, talking about Woody Guthrie, who, long ago, was a tenant in a building belonging to Donald Trump's father Fred. Well, just about nobody loves his landlord, and now we're seeing Guthrie’s "series of bitter missives, which have only just come to light, accusing his landlord of having encoded in his contracts regulations evincing not just a cynical treatment of the working class but a bigotry towards black Americans." I'm quoting that from The Guardian, which gives us no actual quotes from what Guthrie wrote in what I take it are songs about his landlord, not "missives" in the sense of letters to the landlord.

That makes me think of "Dear Landlord," which sounds like the beginning of a letter, but is a song lyric, by Bob Dylan, who seems to be the one person who did love his landlord, the landlord in question being — if I'm reading this thing right — God.

Anyway, here's a NYT piece about the Woody Guthrie/Fred Trump connection, and we are talking about songs, songs with lyrics like: "I suppose/Old Man Trump knows/Just how much/Racial Hate/he stirred up/In the bloodpot of human hearts/When he drawed/That color line/Here at his/Eighteen hundred family project...."

101 comments:

Shouting Thomas said...

Guthrie was a commie.

Dylan, you'll recall had quite the spat with Woodstock commies, including Peter, Paul and Mary, over whether he had the right to just be the next Elvis or whether he had an obligation to continue to write civil rights anthems.

He told them to go fuck themselves.

Michael K said...

Oh, if the NY Times says so.....

Paco Wové said...

When I was young, I was taught that 'guilt by association' was Bad.

Now, not only is guilt by association no longer bad, but hereditary guilt is back to being a Thing, too.

Strange times.

Shouting Thomas said...

Shortly thereafter, Dylan picked up a Stratocaster and started to shake his hips.

Remember?

Anglelyne said...

"...and that connection is the exploitation of working people."

Billy Bragg, Billy Bragg...where have I run across that name? Oh yeah, he was the one crowing about how great mass immigration to Britain was because it provided him with dirt cheap servants and services.

Also, I believe he rants against all the haters opposing the alien influx while himself living in a serene, wealthy whitopia somewhere away from all the diversity. But I might be confusing him with another celebrity, since they all do that.

Hunter said...

Your stuff is your stuff, your stuff is my stuff...

traditionalguy said...

Woody was always angry about Property Developers getting the credit for the working man's labor done on the Big Projects.

Private Property was Woody's real enemy. We all own it all equally was Woody's claim.

But Trump has a Guthrie like point of view on the 48 States belonging to Americans along with a Government that protects the border and the industrial base within from predators running a Global Capitalism wealth flow game.

swetty.girl said...

film streaming

Tim said...

I'm not a big Trump fan. I WILL vote for him in the general if that is the only choice to stop the soulless criminal Hillary from the Presidency. Trump really does have all the right enemies. I much prefer Cruz.

Fernandinande said...

Charles Guthrie was an industrious businessman, owning at one time up to 30 plots of land in Okfuskee County. He was actively involved in Oklahoma politics and was a Democratic candidate for office in the county. When Charles was making stump speeches, he would often be accompanied by his son.[5] Charles Guthrie was involved in the 1911 lynching of Laura and Lawrence Nelson. His son wrote three songs about the event and said that his father was later a member of the revived Ku Klux Klan.[6]"

Somebody had Daddy Issues.

Beach Haven ain’t my home!
I just can’t pay this rent!
My money’s down the drain!


Don't quit your day job!

sydney said...

Billy Bragg is British. This land sure as hell ain't his.

LYNNDH said...

I have been a Republican for a very long time. At one time I was not political and voted split ticket, then I switched to straight Party Ticket. I am not a fan/supporter of Trump. Having said that, if he gets the nomination I will vote for him. I am so disgusted at the hijinks of the so called Party Leaders (does that sound commie)trying to prevent Trump from getting the nomination even if he has earned it with the votes in the primaries/caucuses. If they do not support him in the election and Hillary (if she is not indicted) wins because of their opposition, I will change party affiliation to Independent and spit on the Republicans.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Now's a good time for these songs and this sentiment. When your choices are between a political system financed by either Goldman Sachs or the guys whose dad built refineries for Hitler and Stalin, an alternative is absolutely essential.

traditionalguy said...

Listening to Woody, he does sound a lot like the Harry Truman twang. The Trumans lived in Independence, Missouri selling mules to the wagon trains startin out west to Oregon, which was where Woody's long Highway started to the golden valleys and open skies. Woody ended his song writing there honoring the Great Bonneville dam project way out west in Our Land.

Ambrose said...

Reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy "Kill My Landlord" sketch on SNL - back when we still had irony.

rhhardin said...

Arlo was much better. Alice's Restaurant.

Sebastian said...

"hereditary guilt is back to being a Thing" Always has been for the left. The wrong parents could get you sent down or worse in China.

For a dose of that old-time religion, check out YouTube for Bragg singing the Internationale.

Rhythm and Balls said...

"hereditary guilt is back to being a Thing" Always has been for the left. The wrong parents could get you sent down or worse in China.

So can being the wrong kind of heir to your Daddy's wondrous political fortune!

rehajm said...

Out in the country, far from a highway
There is this land here, and it is my way
Don't ever come here, or you'll be sorry
This land was made just for me

This land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for me

So keep away now, Don't ruin my day now
My property's private, you cannot buy it
Go find your own land, Just be a lone man
This land was made just for me

This land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for me

dbp said...

I wouldn't rule out judging someone by who they hang out with. If you buddy around with say, a domestic terrorist, I think that is a valid point of concern. On the other hand, no child chooses his parents.

But then look at how tenuous the supposed problem is: Some Communist didn't like his landlord--stop the presses! Oh, well he wrote a beloved song, so? It is still a Communist who didn't like his landlord and was a talented songwriter.

Robert Cook said...

One doesn't have to be a communist to dislike one's landlord.

Laslo Spatula said...

I'm sure Papa Guthrie always paid the Rent on time.

I am Laslo.

Rusty said...


Private Property was Woody's real enemy. We all own it all equally was Woody's claim.

Remenver that photo of Woodie and his guitar, " This instrument kills fascists."
irony is wasted on the left.

The Cracker Emcee said...

This Guitar Kills Fascists? Guthrie was the prototypical Leftist celebrity hypocrite and douchelord. I did enjoy singing Roll On Columbia in third grade, though.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Guthrie's music was never used to perpetuate a stranglehold on our freedoms and opportunity the way the Kochtopus has done. Basic knowledge and intelligence is once again harmful to the fascist right and their precious feelings. It's hard for them to stop emotionally projecting into things.

Paco Wové said...

Nice job, rehajm.

AJ Lynch said...

Hillary will be indicted. If she isn't the FBI wil leak enough damaging info about her and her criminal cabal that she will have to withdraw.

So I recommend Trump start blasting Joe Biden who will replace Hilary as the Dem nominee. He could start by pointing out that Biden, the so-called middle class Joe, has not missed a paycheck in 45 years since he has been on the fed govt payroll for that long and so Biden has no clue how the working man feels. And Trump should also point out Slow Joe has been a big part of our dumb fed govt and our dumb deals. Hell Biden is the poster boy for govt incompetence and waste over the last 40 years.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Why Guthrie et al were concerned about fascists. Because many of the same right-wing names you know today were active in trying to implement a coup and install them.

Paco Wové said...

"If you buddy around with say, a domestic terrorist, I think that is a valid point of concern"

True. Eventually it dawned on me that, to the chattering classes, what was "bad" about McCarthyism wasn't its techniques, what was bad was who those techniques were being applied to (that is, the chattering classes themselves).

William said...

Restrictive covenants were more likely something homebuyers inflicted on lawyers and home builders than the other way around. But it's so much more satisfying to project our guilt on those who have more money and education than us. This machine manufactures fascists.

Shouting Thomas said...

OMG! Ritmo has become a Koch ranter!

When do you plan to move to Woodstock? Your buddies meet in Bread Alone for coffee every morning.

William said...

In the earliest known version of "First they came for the Jews", King Charles I said words to the effect that if they can do this to your King, think what they can do to you. Then they beheaded him and distributed his property among the Puritans who were righteous people and far more deserving of its ownership.

Michael said...

R&B

Here's some info on another Nazi loving parent:
"In 1938 Joseph Kennedy had a solution to “the Jewish problem.” The New York Times reported that he had worked out with prime minister Chamberlain a plan to ship all German Jews to Africa and other places in the Western Hemisphere under the joint administration of Britain and the United States. That was news to the State Department, which Kennedy had not consulted, and to President Roosevelt for whom Kennedy had become an embarrassing loose cannon."

Michael said...

Jesus, the Koch brothers are strangling our freedom! Holy. Shit.

LOL. R&B. Great stuff.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You really are an old fart who needs to get out of Woodstock more. (Although your geographical mobility is probably about as limited as the mobility of your lower intestine). It's not radical to dissent from the fact that Hitler and Stalin's businessman Fred Koch's boys have poured nearly $900 million into the election so far, rivaling what the DNC and RNC are pouring in.

In fact, the reason it's just an interesting story is because the butt-boys they tried to buy, from Scott Walker to every other non-Trump candidate, are flailing like squished frogs on the side of the road. You don't understand the backlash against Trump (the guy you make it a point to NOT endorse, as if all the news shows were waiting to cover what a guy with a fifth-grade education from upstate thinks on politics)? Because the Kochs and Adelsons, etc., were all allied against him. You are too stupid to even understand that this is not even a left-wing thing.

So while you were so busy proving that you know nothing about the world, or money, or politics, you became fascinated by a right-wing response to the same things that the left (and now, most independents) have been railing about and telling you so for decades.

Enjoy thinking you're an original on that one.

Rhythm and Balls said...

"In 1938 Joseph Kennedy had a solution to “the Jewish problem.” The New York Times reported that he had worked out with prime minister Chamberlain a plan to ship all German Jews to Africa and other places in the Western Hemisphere under the joint administration of Britain and the United States. That was news to the State Department, which Kennedy had not consulted, and to President Roosevelt for whom Kennedy had become an embarrassing loose cannon."

Wow. That's deep, Michael. Clearly you're more a fan of the outcome that kept them trapped in Europe and got rounded up and exterminated by the SS.

Shouting Thomas said...

Most of your pals here in Woodstock are on SSI so they can rant full time.

What's your eligibility?

Shouting Thomas said...

You're in top vicious idiot form today Ritmo.

Just imagine where you might go in an hour.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It's not a rant. It's knowledge.

Your ignorance of how King Orange Hair came to be is not interesting in itself. We know both how he came to be, and how he came to whip up the votes of ball-lickers like you, and find that to be more interesting.

ST: "I'm a resentful dumb-ass therefore you must listen to me," is not a compelling or persuasive comment.

Shouting Thomas said...

You've read books!

Rhythm and Balls said...

You're in top vicious idiot form today Ritmo.

Um, last I read, you were the one who was vehemently objecting to a basic observation in this election. You really think more people want to read about King Orange Hair from your blog than from the NYT or what's becoming a best-seller on Amazon? Hilarious.

Just imagine where you might go in an hour.

Well, if I were you, it might consist in walking around my town, trying to keep seething resentments of everyone around me to a low boil while I mutter under my breath about exacting vengeance on them rhetorically against innocent bystanders on a different blog.

You are so much more entertaining sometimes than you realize. And for much different reasons than you know. ;-)

Shouting Thomas said...

"Ball licking" is pretty homophobic in my book.

Some of my best friends are ball lickers!

Shouting Thomas said...

You just fall apart and go nuts when you're confronted with disagreement.

You go into full fury adolescent boy insults and stupidity.

It's funny.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You've read books!

And so can you. Just ask for the enlarged type font versions.

Crayons must be purchased separately.

Why do you do this? It's so embarrassing to watch. I don't hate you nearly as much as you wish I did, anyway. I find you endearing, in a way that I'd find a rabid porcupine endearing.

Shouting Thomas said...

I do it to assist you in making an utter ass out of yourself.

Which you've done again.

Thanks.

It isn't very difficult.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It isn't very difficult.

Most things that you do, aren't.

They just seem that way because of all the emotional projectile vomiting and political constipation you're always a hair-trigger away from spewing.

Gahrie said...

Woody was a cranky old Communist with mediocre ability.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Woody was a cranky old Communist with mediocre ability.

Looking at what he was up against politically makes it easy to see why he was so popular nonetheless.

JaimeRoberto said...

Well this quickly turned into a thread that's easy to ignore.

rcocean said...

Guthrie was not only a commie, he was New York commie. His whole, country boy, folksy, man of the 'pee-pul' act was a lie.

A peacenik from Sept 1 1939 - June 21, 1941, a bloodthirsty war monger starting June 22, 1941.

rcocean said...

THis land is your land is typical Guthrie. Synthetic, fake, "folk" music.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Man do the media think we're stupid. Some guy 100 years ago practiced some form of racial segregation. And it's TRUMP'S FATHER! Darth Trump.

buwaya puti said...

The most interesting, and most crudely sneering at ordinary people, old lefty folksong is Malvina Reynolds/Pete Seegers "Little Boxes" or "ticky tacky". That ordinary people were happy to live ordinary lives, with ordinary ambitions, to buy a little house and raise kids and etc., seemed to be something unworthy of the enlightened.
That's the attitude and ideology of these people in a nutshell, the rest is pretense.
We happen to live in the south of San Francisco, right among the " little boxes"; the view out of our windows are the hills of Daly City with rows more of "little boxes" snaking along the hill roads. Interestingly the old residents, the original purchasers of these "little boxes", have taken up the song, sort of an anthem to their happy lives, the kids they raised, the friends they had (now passing away) among the " ticky tacky".

Bay Area Guy said...

@rocean

"A peacenik from Sept 1 1939 - June 21, 1941, a bloodthirsty war monger starting June 22, 1941."

This is beautiful and important, thanks much.

Let us never forget that the peace-loving Communists and their fellow travelers, peaceniks, and enablers were Pro-Nazi, while Hitler was invading Europe. It was not until the Nazis invaded Russia, before they saw the light.

That's a historical fact, friends.

Brando said...

What on earth does this have to do with anything? Some warmed-over commie moron has a problem with the Trumps, and this means what exactly? It's this sort of nonsense that makes me think he's going to do better than expected, if this is his "opposition". Geez. The Times always finds a new low.

So Woody Guthrie has a problem with you? He didn't have such a problem with Stalin.

Brando said...

"Let us never forget that the peace-loving Communists and their fellow travelers, peaceniks, and enablers were Pro-Nazi, while Hitler was invading Europe. It was not until the Nazis invaded Russia, before they saw the light."

What boggles my small mind is that commies were not forever mocked to oblivion after this obvious case of craven bullshittery. It's a matter of fact that they kept their idiot mouths shut from late 1939 through mid-1941. They've proven what they were.

William Chadwick said...

Actually, in the world of Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, etc., this land IS "my" land--the "my" referring to Big Brother.

Marc Puckett said...

For those of you fond of Guthrie and Bragg, you should give Cornelius Cardew a listen; every one of his songs I've ever listened to has made me laugh out loud. "Marxist-Leninist science is the guiding star!"

Michael K said...

"Guthrie's music was never used to perpetuate a stranglehold on our freedoms and opportunity the way the Kochtopus has done."

Hilarious. Ritmo has discovered libertarians who want to take over power and then leave us alone.

There is another dimension of stupidity in the universe and someone has discovered it.

Michael K said...

"A peacenik from Sept 1 1939 - June 21, 1941, a bloodthirsty war monger starting June 22, 1941."

There a couple of good books about Hollywood during this period that describe the twists and turns of the communist screenwriters, like Lillian Hellman who had to rewrite "Watch on the Rhine" and Edward Dmytryk who had to apologize to his communist commissar for writing an anti-Nazi play at the wrong time.

Joe said...

Trump is a loon, but how is he a threat to democracy and liberty?

Seems pretty ironic from someone on the liberal side of things represented by the party which has "super delegates" to thwart democracy and which actively campaigns against free speech.

Are liberals really concerned about Trump as a threat to general liberties or as a threat to their power?

dbp said...

Robert Cook said...

One doesn't have to be a communist to dislike one's landlord.

True, absolutely. However, the informational content of a Communist complaining about his landlord is roughly zero. They will complain about an exemplary landlord the same as they would a slumlord. To them, a landlord is bad, just from being a landlord.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Why the Hell is a Brit opining on how we run our country? Didn't we have a bit of a kerfuffle when they tried to do that before?

Billy Bragg, you have completely fucked up your own country. Stay there and stew in it. Don't try to tell us we should be like you.

We don't need your high crime rates, for one thing. We don't need your restrictions on speech, politics, religion and a raft of other things for another.

I'd never even heard of you until I kept seeing ads for a Madison concert over at the Isthmus. I don't feel as if I have missed anything over all these years.

John Henry

Achilles said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
"Guthrie's music was never used to perpetuate a stranglehold on our freedoms and opportunity the way the Kochtopus has done. Basic knowledge and intelligence is once again harmful to the fascist right and their precious feelings. It's hard for them to stop emotionally projecting into things."

Dude. The Koch Brothers are libertarians. Their goals have always been about getting the government to leave us alone.

You are smarter than this. Disagreement is fine but calling them fascists is just stupid on it's face.

Michael said...

R&B

No, you dumb motherfucker, I was pointing out that the building of factories in Germany years before Hitler came to power is a stupid statement. Instead of simply saying that once again your very limited education was showing I gave an example of the father of a liberal God who actually held Nazi beliefs, who actually stated them.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger Rusty said...

Remenver that photo of Woodie and his guitar, " This instrument kills fascists."
irony is wasted on the left.


I don't think he had that sign before the National Socialists invaded the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, did he?

You know, when Hitler and Stalin were carving up Poland between them and had a friendship treaty.

I forget whether Guthrie was involved but fellow communist and singer Pete Seeger with some others released a very pro-National Socialism record in the 30s telling people to leave Hitler alone and singing his praises. They turned on a dime when Stalin told them to and pulled the record from distribution and attempting to recall all copies already sold.

Guthrie's "This machine kills fascists" was bullshit. Fascists, Italian and German, were just another breed of socialist that was out of favor at the moment with the "True" socialists.

As always, socialism must eliminate anyone who disagrees with their particular flavor of socialism.

John Henry

eddie willers said...

The most interesting, and most crudely sneering at ordinary people, old lefty folksong is Malvina Reynolds/Pete Seegers "Little Boxes" or "ticky tacky".

Glad to see someone else that hates that song.
I fast-forwarded through the introduction of the TV show "Weeds", I hated it so much.

How can nice, orderly lives be such an affront to dilettante revolutionaries?

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

We should also point out that Woody was not all that creative as a musician. He basically took simple tunes written by others and put his words to them.

Roll on Columbia uses the music from Goodnight Irene. I forget the original tune for This land is your land but Woody didn't write it.

Not to say I don't like a lot of his music or that his words are not pretty good. It is to say that he was not all that creative musically.

My aunt used to teach at Columbia in the 40s-60s and had some sort of reviewing deal with Folkways records. She used to send me dozens a year. I have a number of Guthrie albums on 10" disks. One of children's songs that my kids really enjoyed when they were young.

Also lots of Pete Seeger, Ewan McColl and others. Even one of Alan Arkin when he was a folkie.

John Henry

Rusty said...


I don't think he had that sign before the National Socialists invaded the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, did he?

You know, when Hitler and Stalin were carving up Poland between them and had a friendship treaty.

You have it right.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Hilarious. Ritmo has discovered libertarians who want to take over power and then leave us alone.

So, in light of 30 years of stagnant/declining wages under the era of the deregulation championed by the same Kochs who ran against Reagan in 1980, (including an attempted effort to wrest away control from local boards in order to re-segregate North Carolina schools), what do you think it is that they want to do with all the money they spend on all those political campaigns? I mean, other than being the worst polluters in the country?

This is how the father who made their fortune publicly described his "business partners" in 1938:

"Although nobody agrees with me, I am of the opinion that the only sound countries in the world are Germany, Italy, and Japan, simply because they are all working and working hard" and "The laboring people in those countries are proportionately much better off than they are any place else in the world. When you contrast the state of mind of Germany today with what it was in 1925 you begin to think that perhaps this course of idleness, feeding at the public trough, dependence on government, etc., with which we are afflicted is not permanent and can be overcome."

The Kochs must have grown up with some great values, there. Tell me more about their benign influence in the land of freedom, opportunity, segregation and Nazi love, Michael K. I await your brilliant insight into the matter.

Skeptical Voter said...

Who is Billy Bragg, and why should I give a flying fistful of monkey poo what he thinks?

Rhythm and Balls said...

I was pointing out that the building of factories in Germany years before Hitler came to power is a stupid statement. Instead of simply saying that once again your very limited education was showing I gave an example of the father of a liberal God who actually held Nazi beliefs, who actually stated them.

Ha ha. Look who's poorly educated. (A "dumb motherfucker" too, as your own vitriol specifies?) The collaboration behind the refinery began in 1934, which was after der fuehrer took power. It had to be, seeing how it was personally approved by your hero himself. Not only that, but apparently your wunderkinds forced concentration camp inmates to rebuild it after the Allies had to take it down amidst the war effort. Nice little episode, there, eh?

But what can one expect from someone who posits that relocating Jews to allied controlled parts of the British empire was somehow anywhere near as bad or worse than allowing Hitler to do with them what he wanted, and what he did do - regardless of whatever Joe Kennedy Sr's. failings happened to be. Apparently mandating that they be left under Hitler's control to be exterminated wasn't one of these failings. But only you would raise it as if it were.

You gotta love the even better title that Wonkette gives their article on it: "Koch Brothers’ Daddy Loved Hitler So Much He Built A Nazi Oil Refinery."

Has a certain ring to it, wouldn't you admit?

Any reason why you're feeling so defensive about these revelations? I mean, his nearest and dearest and best disciples are only the most powerful donors and influencers of our supposedly public, democratic national (and sometimes local) political campaigns.

Go screw off until you can stop denying the indefensible. Your comparison is so weak and dimwitted that it should embarrass even you. None of Kennedy's sons did anything nearly as reprehensible or destructive to our democratic republic as the Koch blockers have done. And that's what kills you. You're stuck between defending a guy who everyone thinks acts and talks like a Nazi and a party that is funded by the wealthy and extremely powerful and influential sons of a Nazi.

What a great state of affairs.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Their goals have always been about getting the government to leave us alone.

WRONG. Their goals have always been about getting the government to leave them alone.... to do things like pollute our country worse than any other offender.

And I don't see how they were leaving the Wake County school board alone when they funded an incredibly unpopular effort to overthrow their democratically elected officials in order to re-segregate the place.

You are smarter than this. Disagreement is fine but calling them fascists is just stupid on it's face.

When I see the vast majority of all working folks in this country losing more and more power and opportunity each day over the last 30 years of their vaunted deregulation state, I have to ask why they think this is such a great thing to them. You think they are ok with working folks working harder for less while influencing government to see to it that corporations get more for doing less, and that's somehow something other than fascism?

What is it, then?

Clyde said...

Who is Billy Bragg? A pro-communist wrong-side-of-history sort. All you need to do is watch his video "Waiting For The Great Leap Forward" and you'll know everything you need to know about him and the value of his opinion. (Monkey poo is a close approximation)

Michael K said...

"Tell me more about their benign influence in the land of freedom, opportunity, segregation and Nazi love, Michael K. I await your brilliant insight into the matter."

I think it would be a waste of time. Sometimes you sound intelligent and I begin to think your comments are worth reading then you flip into this lefty, sneering, "I'm smarter than all you" mode which shuts down my interest in responding to you.

dustbunny said...

Okies were overwhelmingly racist, homophobic, badly educated and rural. Roosevelt and Guthrie both knew how to talk to them and encourage them to seek better lives. The DNC decided to abandon them and now they are fed up.

FullMoon said...

buwaya puti said... [hush]​[hide comment]

The most interesting, and most crudely sneering at ordinary people, old lefty folksong is Malvina Reynolds/Pete Seegers "Little Boxes" or "ticky tacky". That ordinary people were happy to live ordinary lives, with ordinary ambitions, to buy a little house and raise kids and etc., seemed to be something unworthy of the enlightened.
That's the attitude and ideology of these people in a nutshell, the rest is pretense.
We happen to live in the south of San Francisco, right among the " little boxes"; the view out of our windows are the hills of Daly City with rows more of "little boxes" snaking along the hill roads. Interestingly the old residents, the original purchasers of these "little boxes", have taken up the song, sort of an anthem to their happy lives, the kids they raised, the friends they had (now passing away) among the " ticky tacky".

What are people supposed to live in, tents?
Anyway, I lived there also. Off Skyline, bordering Pacifica. Great ocean view. House slid off the cliff during el nino of '80's or '90's

Gahrie said...

I'll take the Kochs over Soros and Synder any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

buwaya puti said...

Deregulation state?
Obviously you havent tried to manufacture anything in the US the last forty years. I also don't see some class conflict between the owners and workers of all the precision machine shops the State of California has forced to flee or shut down these last couple of decades.
Ritmo, you have no idea at all.

buwaya puti said...

Why do they look down on ordinary people?
Quite simple I think. Social signalling. We are better than them, those squares. So to get status amongst ones fellows one must epater le bourgeois.
The same goes on today. Trump is, in large part, the revenge of the squares. Il faut epater le Boheme.

Michael said...

R&B

Again, you make my point. In what year did hostilities begin with Germany? Was it 1933? Was it 1934? Oh, later? I see.

You are the kind of dense motherfucker who thinks you are smart, the worst kind. You are getting your ideas from a group who thinks in bumper stickers and "tweets."

The Nazi thing has run its course, btw. Your cohorts toss the Hitler tag around when they could not tell you the continent that reside on. You might profitably read "In the Garden of Beasts", a book about William Dodd's tenure as Ambassador to Berlin. It would fill you in on the view of Hitler in 1934 held by much of the world including your other hero FDR. 1934, btw, is not the same as 1939.

"But what can one expect from someone who posits that relocating Jews to allied controlled parts of the British empire was somehow anywhere near as bad or worse than allowing Hitler to do with them what he wanted, and what he did do - regardless of whatever Joe Kennedy Sr's. failings happened to be.

Again, you are such a dumb motherfucker that you can't read. Nowhere do I "posit" what you allege. That is the kind of stupid and drunken slander that reveals your inability to think or to discuss anything in good faith when you are ripped on whatever it is that you get ripped on.

Smilin' Jack said...

BOB DYLAN LYRICS
"I Pity The Poor Immigrant"

I pity the poor immigrant
Who wishes he would've stayed home
Who uses all his power to do evil
But in the end is always left so alone
That man whom with his fingers cheats
And who lies with ev'ry breath
Who passionately hates his life
And likewise fears his death.

I pity the poor immigrant
Whose strength is spent in vain
Whose heaven is like Ironsides
Whose tears are like rain
Who eats but is not satisfied
Who hears but does not see
Who falls in love with wealth itself
And turns his back on me.

I pity the poor immigrant
Who tramples through the mud
Who fills his mouth with laughing
And who builds his town with blood
Whose visions in the final end
Must shatter like the glass
I pity the poor immigrant
When his gladness comes to pass.


If you'd like to hear the song, do your ears a favor and get the Joan Baez version.

narciso said...

well it's awkward for jane to make that point,

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/01/jane-mayer-worlds-worse-hypocrite.php

but then so would any ford, morgan, rockefeller, watson, well you get the gist,

HoodlumDoodlum said...

So the Media idea is to smear Trump's father as racist, too?

Hey, if a commie like Guthrie hated Trump's dad then Trump's dad couldn't have been all bad.

Do you know how long it took Guthrie to decide Stalin wasn't such a cool guy after all? Geez, even Pete Seeger figured it out and managed to say a few words to that effect (still long after it mattered, but it's something).

If I am supposed to draw some conclusion form the fact that David Duke doesn't hate Trump I sure as hell am going to conclude that people who loved Stalin shouldn't be treated as anything but monsters themselves (morally speaking).

The Left has blood on its hands, and I am sick of everyone pretending they don't.

narciso said...

I do recall how they went back to W's grandfather, to slime him back in 2001, of course, Brown Bros, had a whole host of prominent democrats like Averell's brother, and Lovett who were equally involved in German finance in the 30s,

Laslo Spatula said...

We're supposed to go in the Way Back Machine to visit Trump's father, but we don't touch Hillary's experience with Watergate?

The Way Back Machine Sucks.

I am Laslo.

Night Owl said...

"The same goes on today. Trump is, in large part, the revenge of the squares. Il faut epater le Boheme."

If you mean Trump's support is a response to the social signaling of the elite, I'll buy that. And/or that Trump supporters are trying to shock the ruling-class, in order to get the attention of the complacent elite, I'll accept that as well. But beyond that, IMO, the analogy to the folk-singers falls apart.

The elite are having their "let them eat cake" moment, when their reaction to people who are replaced by cheap foreign labor is "let them move and get another job". The Trump supporters are hoping that the tough-talking outsider will change the status quo, and force the ruling-class to look out for the interests of the American worker in the progressive global economy.

Trump's support is not the "let's wake up the establishment" social signaling of the sort that says "I think I'm more enlightened than you", like the phony folksies and their sneering at what they consider to be "tacky" middle-class values. The Trump phenomenon is middle-class and working-class people, whose values are used as punchlines on Comedy Central, who see themselves being pushed into poverty, and are shocked by this vision. I think it's not so much revenge that they want, but acknowledgement.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I think it would be a waste of time. Sometimes you sound intelligent and I begin to think your comments are worth reading then you flip into this lefty, sneering, "I'm smarter than all you" mode which shuts down my interest in responding to you.

Nope. I just asked you to explain/defend your insinuation that the Kochsters are so much more benign than anyone else thinks, and you chickened out. It's possible you didn't even believe your own point in the first place, though - which wouldn't be a surprise.

Honesty starts at home, Michael K. Look in the mirror and ask yourself how honest you are before you accuse others of "shutting down interest" by simply have some facts at their disposal and a point of view to make.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Again, you make my point. In what year did hostilities begin with Germany? Was it 1933? Was it 1934? Oh, later? I see.

Oh ok. I didn't realize we needed conventional hostilities to begin before realizing that Hitler was bad news.

You are the kind of dense motherfucker who thinks you are smart, the worst kind. You are getting your ideas from a group who thinks in bumper stickers and "tweets."

What the hell kind of complaint is this in the first place? How do you know what's in my mind and why would it matter? I made an argument or two, buttressed it with plenty of facts, and am confident therefore that my point of view makes sense. If you can't rebut it, then calling me "smart in my own mind" is not an argument at all. It's just ad hominem crap that you throw out there in your desperation for lacking any substantive point to make. I don't like your personality, either - but I don't use that as an excuse for failing to make a point or telling you why you're right or wrong on something. How damn humbling a presentation do I have to make to simply make an argument that runs counter to everything that you're so often wrong about? Do I have to bow down and beseech thee? Please, Sir Michael of Windbag Downs, I implore thee to give a hearing to my humble request that you consider that doing business amassing a fortune off of building the Third Reich while wondering at their societies in 1938 might be a sign of immoral douchebaggery. Please, please, please do not get offended! I mean your ego no harm in making this entirely uncontroversial point. And yet, because you are so wedded to defending the Kochs at any cost, we must fall down on bended knee to show you how superior you are in your love of Nazi business. LOL!

The Nazi thing has run its course, btw.

Sounds like it's just starting, actually. Look at all the money and PIs and op eds and mud sliming the sons of America's Nazi Money Daddy are trying to throw at Jane Mayer. Poor them!

Your cohorts toss the Hitler tag around when they could not tell you the continent that reside on. You might profitably read "In the Garden of Beasts", a book about William Dodd's tenure as Ambassador to Berlin. It would fill you in on the view of Hitler in 1934 held by much of the world including your other hero FDR. 1934, btw, is not the same as 1939.

It's always fun when Michael gets to the part of his vitriolic personal rants where he actually starts to backtrack and soften his silly putty stretched points. In any event, the praise for Hitler (and Hirohito and Mussolini) was dripping out of Der Kochster's lips by 1938. More than enough time to take a look at in the eye of the violent, racist fascism of the Third Reich and call it out for what it was.

"But what can one expect from someone who posits that relocating Jews to allied controlled parts of the British empire was somehow anywhere near as bad or worse than allowing Hitler to do with them what he wanted, and what he did do - regardless of whatever Joe Kennedy Sr's. failings happened to be.

Again, you are such a dumb motherfucker that you can't read. Nowhere do I "posit" what you allege. That is the kind of stupid and drunken slander that reveals your inability to think or to discuss anything in good faith when you are ripped on whatever it is that you get ripped on.


Lol again. And again. And again. If your points are so inarticulate that they are misconstrued to the extent that you allege I do, then kindly rephrase - (sounding it out by moving your lips, if need be) - and re-type. After a while this Trumpian "I didn't mean to say what I plainly said" shit gets tiresome. Learn how to express yourself effectively, Mr. Moral Clarity.

Michael said...

R&B
Show me the "posit" you dumb racist motherfucker. LOL.

Qwinn said...

Soros actually turned Jews in to the Nazis, after everyone knew what would be done to them. Not his father - he, himself. And he has spent way more than the Koch brothers. For the Left to try to play the Nazi card with that guy running their entire show, seriously, hanging from lampposts would be kinder than they deserve.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Your Trump shell game of never clarifying yourself is a bait I'm not interested in taking. Go and explain your 11:38 post on your own.

Or do you need a tutor to help you figure out what you meant by it in relation to what we know about 1938's most enthusiastic Nazi booster and father to segregationists, The Great Fred Koch.

BTW, by 1938 the Rape of Nanking had already taken place - orchestrated by one vital leg of the "triad" of Fred Koch's favorite political examples, Imperial Japan. A country he had also extolled in his 1938 pronouncements.

You going to defend him on that one, also? Or just call me a "dumb racist motherfucker"?

The Japanese were pretty racist, too. It's part of what allowed them to believe that they had the destiny of conquering (and raping) all the other Asian countries.

Here's Freddie's 1938 quote, once again:

"Although nobody agrees with me, I am of the opinion that the only sound countries in the world are Germany, Italy, and Japan, simply because they are all working and working hard"

It's ok for him to have felt that way though, right? Because he was a very important industrialist who thought that people were expendable and that racist countries had important destinies to carry out.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I'm sure that deep down, Michael thinks that for Fred Koch to have thought that way at that time was a very decent thing to do. Because that what narcissistic wealthy elitists do.

No people are above killing when destiny strikes. It's just easier if you sit behind a nice, plush chair and count your profits when it happens.

buwaya puti said...

As far as the Asian countries went, they had deep economic ties with Japan. There were an awful lot of "Koch's" around - as there always are under normal circumstances. People trade with each other right up to when their governments decide to fight.
Some Asian "Koch's" -
- 20% of Japan's copper came from the huge Phil-American Lepanto mine, explicitly founded with the Japanese market in mind. Ore shipments for Japan were embargoed in 41 and were on the Manila docks when they were bombed in December. I think quite a lot of the ammo they shot at my uncles in 41-42 came from there.
- Davao was effectively a Japanese colony, invited to invest there by the Philippine Commonweath government and the source of Abaca, rubber, etc. The Japanese dominated the economy of Davao. This, later in the 1930s, caused considerable anxiety about the risk of outright annexation, or of a fifth column - which eventually was proven to be correct.
- Japanese petroleum came entirely from the Dutch East Indies, most from Royal Dutch Shell - I highly recommend Daniel Yergins history of the oil industry on the machinations thereof. Short story, when the Japs walked into Balikpapan, Palembang, etc. a good bit of the oil that was in storage there and destroyed was undelivered Japanese property.
- My great grandfather had timber shipments warehoused for Japan similarly.
And etc.
Until the Allied and the US started the embargoes Japan and its trading partners were buying, selling and investing normally.
War materials are pretty much the same things as a civilian economy needs, and both Japan and Germany were, until their governments went irremidiably rogue, important parts of the global economy. I have a hundred stories in this vein.
Yakking on about evil Koch's is pure partisan slander.
Everyone trading in East Asia was a narcissistic elitist apparently.

Qwinn said...

Note no response at all to Soros' Nazi past. Of actually pointing Jews out to the Naziz to save his own skin and turning his own profit. And not his father, but he himself.

Why no response? Fen's law. R&B has absolutely no problem with Nazis as long as they're on his side. So why should we care about his denunciations?

Michael said...

R&B

Wait!! Now the refinery is being built in 1938 and not 1934 as you "posited" earlier? You are so dumb you can't remember what you wrote at 3:28 pm.

LOL

1934. Not 1938.

Rusty said...

To be fair R&B, a lot of our national heavey hitters during the 1930s thought Mr. Hitler was just the thing europe needed including your lord and savior FDR.

mikee said...

I, for one, prefer the song Alice's Restaurant for my anti-establishment anthem. It runs long and can't really be sung, so it has the benefit of requiring only one listen per lifetime to get the point.

Rhythm and Balls said...

The deals were agreed to in 1934 and his letter about the supposed greatness of your heroes Schickelgrubber, Hirohito and Mussolini was written in 1938.

You really do get unhinged when trying to follow a rational thought, don't you?

Rhythm and Balls said...

Show me that FDR quote about Hitler, Rust-belt.

Rusty said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
Show me that FDR quote about Hitler, Rust-belt.


Read a book, dumbass.