February 27, 2016

Bill Clinton is brutally confronted over the VA and Benghazi — "Your wife lied over 4 coffins!" — and all we see is his mild demand to be allowed to respond...

... escalating into a politely stated request to "shut up"...



... and we never hear his actual answer, because the camera goes out the door with the ejected questioner. Maybe there were other cameras, and we'll see the rest, but this was brutal. It's easy to create this kind of disruption and hard to know what the speaker can do... other than support a candidate who has not inspired that kind of anger.

Drudge presents it like this:

220 comments:

1 – 200 of 220   Newer›   Newest»
n.n said...

The Democrat propensity for progressive wars is finally confronted on its historical record. Not even the pro-choice doctrine or JournoLists will save them now.

Michael K said...

This is only the first of these. "Black Lives" has had the TV cameras to themselves until now.

Drago said...

Begley will be along shortly to describe how this is devastating, DEVASTATING I TELLYA!, for Trump

cubanbob said...

Libya was Hillary's idea. The Marine was right, the deaths are due to her policy and her incompetence and for no good reason. If Bill had any decency, he would be apologizing to the marine.

Ann Althouse said...

I would like to see these fervent questions delivered in a shorter form, where the passion is there, but the speaker is then allowed to respond, and the audience gets to hear from the person they came to see.

However much you oppose Hillary and side with these questioners, you should want them to know when to stop and how much respect to show the speaker, whatever you think of the ex-President.

There is a lot of anger cranking up this weekend, in a lot of places, and there are some deranged, impulsive people out there.

Show some respect... for all of us, and for this democracy of ours.

I just watched another viral video... of Bernie Sanders needing to be protected from protesters.

This isn't good, and decent people need to influence each other to preserve the peace.

I hear Lindsey Graham joking about murdering Ted Cruz.

I read that Donald Trump has to wear a bulletproof vest whenever he is in public.

This is not good.

MayBee said...

I cannot think of the last time I told someone to shut up.
Who says that?

rehajm said...

There is a lot of anger cranking up this weekend, in a lot of places, and there are some deranged, impulsive people out there.

Many of them will have dropped out the race by Thursday.

Birkel said...

Althouse:

The system is the thing on which we depend. The candidate for whom you voted in 2008 was dedicated to breaking the system. That you now see the danger of systemic collapse is comical.

You were warned but you are old enough and prosperous enough to escape most of the misery. The seed corn is eaten.

Skeptical Voter said...

You get Ross Douthat from that paragon of civility, the New York Times, joking about how to stop a Trump candidacy via assassination. Ms. Althouse, I agree with you that civility would be a good thing in politics. Based on the long time rough and raucous American campaign style, I can only say, "In your dreams". Black Lives Matter has certainly not been shy with its "in your face" approach. Campus speakers have been run off campus or barred altogether by the micro-aggression, safe space little snowflake movement. The horse you want long ago escaped the barn.

Now as for Billy Jeff's encounter; it is regrettable. But just as Hillary enabled Bill's campaign by tamping down "bimbo eruptions", Bill enabled Hillary to get where she is at. He is responsible for her rise (she didn't have a heck of a lot of natural talent or ability on her own) and as such he "owns" her position. And her position stinks. And some truth tellers will inevitably point that out. In a perfect world, that would be done with a pinky politely curled over the edge of a tea cup. But some people, Marines included, never learned how to act at a tea party. Politics ain't beanbag as the saying goes.

Dude1394 said...

Wow...ejected marine.

LarsPorsena said...

The audience appeared to be predominately women of a certain age (AA's cohort).

Rusty said...


Show some respect... for all of us, and for this democracy of ours.

That ship sailed around 1968.

mccullough said...

I don't approve of disruptive behavior and these other Alinsky-type tactics. How about some civility. I thought Clinton handled himself well here and was going to answer the man's question.

That said, candidates are so scripted and never answer the questions media people ask them. They use the question as a launching pad for some tangentially related point.

Birkel said...

BAMN, ACORN, BLM...

I remember well the respect for the system urged by Althouse.

traditionalguy said...

It's a Mutual Hatred Society between the Clintons and the USMC. They both despise the other and have since1993.

edutcher said...

Well, ooo-rah!

Semper Fi, Marine!

Don't let him off the hook.

pm317 said...

I would have liked to hear Bill Clinton's answer. Why don't these fucking protesters ask where Obama was that night?

TCom said...

"I read that Donald Trump has to wear a bulletproof vest whenever he is in public."

People all over are going insane because they believe the media spin, and are calling to kill him. Others post gleefully about how they're smashing car windows with Trump stickers.

Trump isn't the crazy one here. The ones willing to burn it all down rather than lose influence and power are the ones we need to fear.

edutcher said...

traditionalguy said...

It's a Mutual Hatred Society between the Clintons and the USMC. They both despise the other and have since 1993.

It was the Army in Mog back then, but the Ozark Mafia hated the military generally.

And still does.

buwaya puti said...

You will see a great deal more of this, and, I think, much worse. This will be a very ugly year. It's barely started.

Amanda said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amanda said...

"I cannot think of the last time I told someone to shut up.
Who says that?"

Chris Christie, who just gave a big fat love filled endorsement of Donald Trump.

Original Mike said...

"Why don't these fucking protesters ask where Obama was that night?"

Let's ask Amanda.

Amanda said...

"Wow...ejected marine."

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/23/donald-trump-on-protester-id-like-to-punch-him-in-the-face/

"Addressing another protester, a man holding a sign that read, “Veterans to Trump: End Hate Speech Against Muslims,” Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “Get him the hell out,” as the crowd booed the man’s exit."

Amanda said...

Original Mike,
Where was Ronald Reagan when the barracks were bombed in Beirut?

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mick said...

Hillary and the Usurper have committed TREASON. They allowed our ambassador to be killed to cover up the weapons running operation to what is now ISIS, then blamed it on a movie.
The Republicans are just as bad for letting her get away with it. How is that majority in both Houses working for you Stockholm Syndrome Republicans?

What is the penalty for Treason?

So sorry that the Marine in the video wasn't "civil" enough for you "law prof".
The Clintons are grifters and criminals not deserving of civility.

http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/ClerkWebsite/welcome2.aspx

Hearing March 4 Rm. 840 11AM re. Rubio and Cruz' Motions to dismiss
Case# CACE15022044

Birkel said...

Bill Clinton actually ejected the protestor for BADTALK, whereas Trump wanted to -- but did not actually -- punch the guy for GOODTALK.

Now be a dear and vote for the felon or the commie.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...


... and we never hear his actual answer, because the camera goes out the door with the ejected questioner.


From the linked article:
The video shows her then forcibly removed from the room. Clinton never did answer.

So it appears as Clinton used the old "are you going to listen to my answer" routine without ever answering the question

Amanda said...

"Addressing another protester, a man holding a sign that read, “Veterans to Trump: End Hate Speech Against Muslims,” Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “Get him the hell out,” as the crowd booed the man’s exit."

Trump had the veteran ejected for "BAD" sign "talk".

Charlie Currie said...

Goose, meet Gander

Original Mike said...

"Where was Ronald Reagan when the barracks were bombed in Beirut?"

Stupid question. Beirut happened in a moment. There was no chance for a rescue. Benghazi dragged on for 13 hours. Thirteen hours that we have no idea what our President did.

Amanda said...

Original Mike, numerous military experts said there was no chance for "rescue".

Original Mike said...

What did he do, Amanda?

Birkel said...

THIS JUST IN:
Amanda knows "numerous military experts" who will take the point of view taken by their superiors in the chain of command. You know, the chain that ends with Valerie Jarrett.

pm317 said...

@Original Mike, Amanda is afraid of the answer to that question.

But notice, Bill Clinton started to answer that marine's question by saying, I am no longer your CiC but will try to answer your question..I would have liked to hear his answer but these fucking protesters are not interested in answers because they think they already have THEIR answer.

Amanda said...

Origininal Mike, why did Reagan withdraw the Marines out of Beruit instead of retaliating? Sounds cowardly.

jdniner said...

I'm a vet. I might be naive but I don't want special status beyond the GI Bill. That was enough. My political opinions bear respect for the military but not necessarily for Generals and CIC's. Benghazi looks pretty bad to me. What it makes me think is that the USA is very top heavy with well educated kooks and losers. A Trump or a Sanders is the start of the cure. A Rubio or a Hillary is more of the same.

Amanda said...

pm317,
Tell me why Hillary would make a good President.

Original Mike said...

"I would have liked to hear his answer ..."

Yeah, me too.

Drago said...

Amanda: "Original Mike, numerous military experts said there was no chance for "rescue".

LOL

Apparently, looking at a map and understanding the operational radious of military transport and combat aircraft is beyond the ken of the left.

And you would be surprised what "military experts" dependent on this White House for promotions and their sinecure have been willing to "voluntarily" say over the last 7+ years.

We have so many rapid reaction forces spread over the med from Spain to the Adriatic with some of those forces always at an operations "ready to go" mode that it's laughable that there are those who deny it.

Why, it's almost like the left is comprised of science-deniers who don't understand the basic geospace-time-available force dynamics,

jdniner said...

And look at the population of veterans. A certain percentage of them are fools and just a subset of the foolish USA population. Just because someone is a vet doesn't confer a status of royalty on them. Some though are worth listening to.

MayBee said...

What does Reagan have to do with Obama?

MayBee said...

Did Obama go to bed when Benghazi was under siege, saying, "I'm going to bed. It's what Reagan did" ?

Chuck said...

I expect that I am, or used to be, the very same sort of fan of Drudge as is Professor Althouse.

I go to Drudge at least three times a day; sometimes more.

But with Drudge's full-on cheerleading for Trump, it has become less interesting and less valuable. Drudge is missing a lot of stuff. Drudge is deep-sixing a lot of interesting anti-Trump stories. And the headlines and front-page photos, which used to be as interesting as the front page of the Times (among the very few things the Times does well is constructing its pages), are now sort of blatantly misleading.

Somebody should do a study on how wildly out of tune (and pro-Trump) the Drudge reader polls are.

Birkel said...

Tell us all, Amanda, why socialism will work this time, please. Will the 'right people' be in charge?

MayBee said...

Did Obama hear the VA was waitlisting veterans so long they died, and reply "It doesn't matter. Reagan didn't respond well to that bombing in Beirut" ?

Jack Wayne said...

If only those 57 Minutemen had been moderates and not extremists, we wouldn't be in this "not good" situation today.

Amanda said...

European style socialism is doing quite well. The countries who have it also enjoy the highest happiness quotient in the world. Go figure.

MayBee said...

"I'm just going to ignore all these pleas for more security from my friend Chris Stevens, even though everything else on the street is moving out because it's unsafe. I'm doing this because of what Reagan did with Beirut," said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Birkel said...

Amanda,
Now I understand. You are stupid. Sorry for teasing you with "knowledge" and "facts" and all.

Jack Wayne said...

Birkel, the same charge is being made against Obama. That our Social Contract is good, it's just that the people running it are bad. The only conclusion I reach is that the Constitution is a failure and we need a new one if our good government depends entirely on goodness of the people running it.

pm317 said...

Yeah, socialistic Europeans HAD the highest happiness quotient after pillaging through the world and closing off their societies to other lesser mortals.. Let us see what they will do now when all these refugees start to suck on their socialistic tits (where is Titus?) and they have to start paying through their noses to raise the happiness quotient of the refugees, god forbid, if they are muslim.

There is nothing like what America has built in terms of a melting pot and the American Dream. Let us not dilute what America has accomplished over the centuries with trying to become like Europeans. Fuck Europeans.

Amanda said...

pm317,
Still waiting for your answer. Tell the good people here why you think Hillary Clinton will make the best President for America. Afraid to answer?

Amanda said...

Oh heck, I might even vote for Kasich if Clinton gets the nomination, if Kasich was the Republican candidate that is.

Birkel said...

JackWayne,

Not at all. The legislature has abdicated to the executive while the federal government has absorbed more power than it should have.

What we need is a return to the Constitution.

pm317 said...

WTF.. why should I answer some random question?

Birkel said...

We need, as Milton Friedman suggested, to change the incentives of the people involved. We need the wrong people to do things that result in their own self interest that are the good things.

But that way is hard and requires discipline that I fear no longer exists.

Amanda said...

pm317,
You should answer it because we all know you are a rabid Clinton supporter. Ashamed to speak up for your candidate? You comment about me avoiding questions, yet you are too chicken to speak up your candidate.

Birkel said...

pm317: "Fuck Europeans."

Well said.

FullMoon said...

Amanda said...

Original Mike, numerous military experts said there was no chance for "rescue".


Whenever it is stated "Numerous" experts of any sort say something, rest assured
"many" experts disagree..

Birkel said...

pm317:

Ask Amanda why she supports a candidate who in 1985 publicly declared his support for Castro, who was lobotomizing homosexuals.

If she does not answer I must assume she is pro-totalitarian and anti-homosexual.

Big Mike said...

It's easy to create this kind of disruption and hard to know what the speaker can do... other than support a candidate who has not inspired that kind of anger. [emphasis mine]

@Althouse, I thought your comment posted at 11:55 was good, but what you wrote in your original post is flat, simply wrong. If when you wrote "a candidate who has not inspired that kind of anger" you meant Bill Clinton, then I'd like to remind you that he is not the candidate. If you meant that Hillary Clinton "has not inspired that kind of anger" then I urge you to sharpen your sense of empathy for the soldiers, sailors, and marines that are sent in harm's way by our government. I can understand the rage of our fighting men and women at an administration that put people into dangerous situations and never lifted a finger to make the situations less dangerous nor sent in rescue forces when the situation went from dangerous to murderous. Not to put too fine a point on it, I don't get what you don't get.

And here's the thing -- you're the person who created the "civility bullshit" tag but you can't seem to grasp that this is the logical conclusion of civility bullshit. There's a straight line connection from electing a feckless politician who thinks that he can import Chicago-style hardball politics to the nation as a whole (and note that it doesn't even work in Chicago anymore) to the current voter anger. We will be decades returning to being a country where presidential candidates don't have to wear bulletproof vests to appear in public.

Dr Weevil said...

Amanda (1:21pm) thinks it's important that the happiest countries in the world are socialist. I think it's at least as important that they are also the countries with the highest percentages of the population on antidepressants (link). Apparently the happiness is in great part chemically-induced, i.e. fake. Not to mention that northern Europe has some of the highest suicide rates in the world, even with all those antidepressants. By the way, I'm pretty sure Democrats take more antidepressants than Republicans: they certainly have a pair of extremely angry and/or depressed people competing for their nomination.

Jupiter said...

Well, the truth is that she did stand over those four coffins, and tell the parents of the dead men inside them that she would avenge their deaths by harassing an American film-maker. When she knew perfectly well that the American film-maker had nothing to do with their deaths, and in any case had a perfect right, guaranteed by the American Constitution, to make a film about Muhammad if he was so inclined. She's a dirty bird, is what she is, and I doubt even Bill Clinton has a lie big enough to clean her cage.

Big Mike said...

European style socialism is doing quite well. The countries who have it also enjoy the highest happiness quotient in the world.

@Amanda, that information is quite a bit out of date. It always did depend on a being a small country with a homogeneous population highly imbued with the Protestant work ethic and possessing low levels of public corruption. These days people are much less happy, particularly women raped or otherwise sexually molested by Muslim immigrants.

Howard said...

Benghazi was bad, but Beirut was a full-blown tragedy. Reagan sent 200+ Marines to the slaughter by an Iranian proxy. Turned tail and ran, then sold missiles to Iran to release a couple CIA agents and to fund death squads in Nicaragua. In addition, Reagan helped to create and arm the Taliban and al Queda. Hillary is a piker compared to Republicans.

pm317 said...

Oh, thank you, @Birkel. I didn't know she was a supporter of that useless angry old man. I had not paid attention to any of her comments.

MayBee said...

So what Reagan did in 1985 is relevant to this election, but not what Bernie said in 1985 and not what Hillary did in 2011 and 2012. Is that right?

Amanda said...

Big Mike, here, from 2015.

Iceland, Denmark, Canada, Sweden, Finland, still on the list of top ten in happiness quotient. I'd not mind a government such as Switzerland or Netharlands. We could stand to learn something from anyone of these top ten countries.

J. Farmer said...

Benghazi was nothing compared to the magnificently stupid decision to pursue regime change in Libya.

Amanda said...

So pm317,
I'm still waiting to hear why you think Clinton would make the best President. Hmmm, perhaps you are a bit afraid of the blowback you'd get from the good folks here?

Birkel said...

Why are you anti-homosexual, Amanda?

Amanda said...

pm317, tell us why we should vote for Hillary considering "Benghazi!"?

Amanda said...

No Birkel dear, not one bit. Are you?

Big Mike said...

@Amanda, as I write this Denmark is trying to figure out how to introduce more capitalism into their Nordic economic model. The only country in your top ten which doesn't fit my criteria of small, homogeneous, Protestant work ethic, and low public corruption is Canada, and Canada outside of Quebec checks three of those four boxes.

I suspect Finland will move up to number one or number two now that Muslim immigrants have had a taste of Finnish winters and are leaving the country in droves. That seems to include Afghanis, which is eye-opening because the winters in Afghanistan are themselves pretty ferocious.

JPS said...

Amanda,

I'm late to this, but:

"numerous military experts said there was no chance for 'rescue'."

Even if those experts were retroactively correct, which is debatable, this is hardly a defense. No one knew at the time how long it would last.

I would actually rather believe that no one put together the situation and thought to send help, than that someone said, Eh, those guys are f&^*ed, they'll be overrun before we can get there - don't send the QRF.

Howard said...

Right-on Maybee Fuck those Jarheads, right. It's relivent because you chickenhawks are raking Hitlery over the coals for a minor fuck-up while still sucking Ronnie's dick.

Amanda said...

Weevil,
List of suicides rates per country

tim maguire said...

Protestors who ask questions but then repeatedly interrupt the speaker so it's impossible to respond come off looking like loons. If they want to do damage, then they need to act like normal human beings, like people we can identify with. Passionate but reasonable.

MayBee said...

Howard- do you think bombing Libya with no follow-up has been just a minor fuck-up?

Birkel said...

Amanda:
So you just support politicians who are anti-homosexual?

Amanda said...

No I don't Birkel, do you? I bet you sure got upset over that gay marriage thingie, didn't ya?

Birkel said...

Howard thinks the Left has good intentions therefore it's cool to bomb a country, explicitly, for OIL for the French.

Birkel said...

Amanda,
You support Sanders who supports the Soviet Union and Cuba. Those regimes, that Sanders supports, performed medical experiments on homosexuals.

I ask again: Why is Amanda anti-homosexual?

Amanda said...

Howard, Birkel must be wearing his Amazing Kreskin hat today. Amusing because he is trying so hard and getting nowhere.

Birkel said...

Amanda:

I know you support the Palestinians. The Palestinians hate gays.

Amanda, why do you support anti-homosexual regimes?

Dr Weevil said...

Not content with showing her unearned contempt by altering my username the way assholes so often do, Amanda gleefully seizes on my minor point, showing that all those antidepressants may be working in Scandinavia after all, though I note that Suicide.Org puts some countries much higher on their list: Finland 16th out of 100 instead of 33rd out of 110, for instance, Denmark 27th instead of 81st (!).

Of course, she carefully avoids my main point, and shows no sign of having followed my link. The fact is that the five countries she names as models include the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th highest users of antidepressants in the study I linked. Perhaps hers haven't kicked in yet.

Amanda said...

Birkel, why would I take what you have to say as fact? You are one funny guy. I don't buy mischaracterizations from guys who like to play "characters" online. But good try.

Gahrie said...

European style socialism is doing quite well. The countries who have it also enjoy the highest happiness quotient in the world. Go figure.

And they're living off of the taxes of American citizens who defend them and do things like pay for the research of new drugs and medical techniques. We subsidize their standard of living.

Amanda said...

Still chuckling, you folks are amusing, but amusing doesn't cut it when we try to make cogent arguments.

MayBee said...

Dr Weevil, I noticed that too. Completely missed your point.

Perhaps if Bernie Sanders is elected we can all get free anti depressants and be the happiest country on the planet. That's the wonder of Socialism!

Amanda said...

More like ignoring the insect's "point", because his "point" is that people are unhappy with their form of government and commit suicide because of it, when there is a plethora of statistics that debunk that point.

Birkel said...

Amanda:

I am not saying you are anti-homosexual. I am saying the regime's your preferred candidate supports are anti-homosexual.

The cognitive dissonance must be deafening.

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MayBee said...

No, Dr Weevil's point was that you said they were the happiest people, while in reality they are on the most anti-depressants. You see the connection, right?

MayBee said...

It's like saying Bill Cosby dated the sleepiest people.

Fabi said...

That video is fantastic. It's too bad that the nutty left ramped up this type of behavior, but it will be used extensively against them and they're unprepared to deal with it.

Amanda said...

Happiest Countries and why

The World Happiness Report suggested that residents of the nation of lakes, Lindt and Roger Federer, are more content, on average, than those in any other country. Britons, by contrast, were judged to only be the 21st happiest of the 158 nations to feature.

The second happiest nation was deemed to be Iceland, followed by Denmark (a previous winner), Norway and Canada. Scandinavian countries once again dominated the top ten.

•Why is Switzerland so happy?

In determining what it means to be happy, the report took into account peoples’ own evaluations of their lives and considered factors including real GDP per capita, health and life expectancy, perceptions of corruption, social support and the freedom to make life decisions.

MayBee said...

Did you read Dr Weevil's link?

Dr Weevil said...

So now I'm "the insect"? I wonder if that's a hint that Amanda would like to exterminate me.

When you say "his 'point' is", you might want to make sure you get it right. That was not my point at all. Read carefully, while I tell you again. I never suggested that socialism was driving northern Europeans to suicide. All I said was that being on the "happiest" countries list doesn't count if you get there by using more antidepressants than other countries. The most miserable person in the world can feel artificially happy if you get the dosage right, but will still be just as miserable when the drugs run out. Therefore your comparison proves nothing. It's like having a 'tallest person' contest and allowing stilts.

It's really not a difficult concept, and no one else here has had trouble understanding it. So, are you too stupid to see what I'm getting at, or too dishonest to admit when you've been refuted? Your name-calling strongly suggests the latter, but the two are not incompatible.

Birkel said...

How happy is Cuba?

Birkel said...

Dr Weevil:

Embrace the healing power of AND. Amanda is stupid AND dishonest.

MayBee said...

Here is the World Happiness Report, referenced in Amanda's article. The US looks pretty darn happy!
(pdf)

Paco Wové said...

"why you think Hillary Clinton will make the best President"

Seems like you're the person here most likely to be voting for Hillary come November, Amanda

buwaya puti said...

Look up the wiki on
"Median household income"
There are several studies linked from there and they are dispositive. Especially those on "disposable" income.
The US does better than anywhere but a few small places like Switzerland and Luxembourg and Norway
And for the "socialism" label, most of Europe these days is much less socialist than the US in practice, as the US regulatory regime is far more limiting and intrusive. So much so that the Euros constantly complain about it.
Euro tax burdens are high but the general reason for that is a much older population and high pension costs relative to the US. US defense spending is a small part of the general US tax burden. I discount taxes as constituting much of "socialism". The indirect economic costs of government intrusion are worse aspects of " socialism" than taxes.
The Swedish "business climate" ranking is actually quite good, as is most of Europe, in every respect other than financing. In fact finance (and to a lesser degree bankruptcy protection) is the ONLY aspect of business climate in which the US excels. In everything else the regulatory burden is enormously worse.
And this disastrous situation is entirely the doing of the traitorous Democratic party and its supporters.
In general, the US started from an excellent place in terms of tax burden and regulatory regimes, but has fallen and continues to fall vs the rest of the world and even much of Europe. The negative effect on median incomes, which should be visible even to the very dim, is the result.

Dr Weevil said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Thanks, Dr.

M Jordan said...

What we're seeing now is the return of the boomerang that liberals threw many years ago. How is it okay that Black Lives Matter, to name the current boomerang tosser, is given preferential treatment by the media/Washington etc. but two voices drying out against an impeached president who is a sexual predator are deemed out of bounds? One of the two voices actually served in our military, btw.

Sorry, Ann, but karma is a girl dog.

Dr Weevil said...

Sorry, I didn't realize Birkel had replied before I deleted. Here's what he was replying to, with a couple of missing words added:

Birkel:
Yes, one plethora, two plethorae if you want to be pedantic, but I'd stick with plethoras if I ever had to refer to more than one of them. (Chances of that ever happening: less than 2%.)

buwaya puti said...

And to clarify - the US is living off accumulated "goodwill", capital both material and human, in maintaining it's relative position. But the trend is negative vis a vis the rest of the world. The effect of the current regulatory regime is just starting to be felt. If anyone wants to go into specifics of exactly which factors of production will be affected, I am happy to explain in depth.

Birkel said...

buwaya puti:

Democrats are eating the seed corn. They are locusts. California is devoured.

Amanda said...

This is why these countries are so high on the Happiness Quotient. They understand that they are members of a society and that they have a responsibility to one another. They pay their taxes and they do not mind doing so because they receive much in the way of a social safety net in return. They all benefit.

"When social capital is high, individual citizens are more prepared to pay their taxes honestly, more prepared to support investments in public goods, and more likely to support social insurance policies. The Scandinavian countries, with perhaps the highest social capital in the world, also have the most extensive social welfare systems (broadly classi ed as social democracy). High social capital is conducive to electoral support for a strong social safety net and extensive social services. It is also likely that the emergence of social democratic systems in Scandinavia in the 1930s and onward helped to foster more social capital in those countries."

From Maybee's link.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Switzerland is a"European Socialist" country? Wow the ignorance is breathtaking.

Amanda said...

Bill,
I didn't say Switzerlnd was a european style socialist country. Read more carefully. Sloppy readers are ignorant.

buwaya puti said...

I have seen with my own eyes - the California Democratic party is a criminal conspiracy, in no way different from the Kleptocratic regime of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos.
Just better organized and better protected.

jaydub said...

Amanda: "Iceland, Denmark, Canada, Sweden, Finland, still on the list of top ten in happiness quotient. I'd not mind a government such as Switzerland or Netharlands. We could stand to learn something from anyone of these top ten countries."

The ignorance is breathtaking. I lived and worked in Denmark and I can categorically tell you that to compare a homogeneous nation of 5 million to a multi-cultural nation of 320 million is sheer stupidity. Do you know that in Denmark, people don't lock their doors, leave their bicycles unlocked at the bus stop while they are at work and walk unmolested in any section of there town and at all hours? Do you know why? Because they all come from the same background, know their neighbors and the neighbors' parents and grand parents, and the all trust each other. In other words, this ain't Chicago and what works in Denmark would never, ever work in Chicago. So, get off the ignorant parroting of Bernie's party line, because it just is not true. Anyone who has lived there understands that. If you want to bring Denmark norms of behavoir to Chicago, first get rid of all the people in Chicago and replace them with people from Denmark because those people are what makes Denmark work, not their system of government or social services. Fool!

MayBee said...

You see we are higher in happiness than the UK, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland. Right, Amanda?
Are those not European Style Socialst-y enough?

Michael K said...

Good grief ! This comment thread has become a pissing match !

"I read that Donald Trump has to wear a bulletproof vest whenever he is in public."

I am glad to hear that. I think he has the highest risk of assassination since Huey Long. The hatred and anger is already astonishing and it is early.

However, the preference cascade rolls on and Gingrich is talking to Trump about being chief of staff in the administration.

I actually think that would be a good job for Gingrich.

MayBee said...

Amanda: "European style socialism is doing quite well. The countries who have it also enjoy the highest happiness quotient in the world. Go figure."

So which of Iceland, Denmark, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, France, Germany, Belgium, UK, Ireland, Italy, and Spain are European style socialist countries displaying record happiness?

MayBee said...

I should add Greece.

Fabi said...

United States at No. 15. Sounds good to me, I'm happy about it! I wonder if Amanda could find a common demoninator in the top ten happiest countries?

Our quasi-literate Berniebot also likes to derail threads (what's the OP about here?) and her woeful ability to employ any element of classical English rhetoric is severely magnified by her lackluster erudition.

Amanda said...

Jaydub, I too have lived in one of the countries I mentioned. There is absolutely NO reason we couldn't learn from these countries and your argument that because we are a diverse country we can't adopt some of these countries' policies is ignorant and extremely short sighted. You may like living in the past, I believe in moving forward, identifying good policy, embracing it and continuously working to improve our society. Demographics are not a good argument, it's your excuse for not even trying. It's stupid and defeating.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Amanda said:

I didn't say Switzerlnd was a european style socialist country.

Before that she said:

European style socialism is doing quite well. The countries who have it also enjoy the highest happiness quotient in the world. Go figure.

I'd not mind a government such as Switzerland or Netharlands.

Why is Switzerland so happy?


Your also a liar.

Birkel said...

Just so everybody is clear:

Hillary Clinton toppled a government FOR OIL for France and allowed it to be controlled by an Islamist terror squad.

And then she lied about it, directly to her victims' loved ones.

MayBee said...

I do wish Howard would describe his opinion about Obama and Hillary and Libya.

Amanda said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amanda said...


Poor Trump, he got a little bit ignored here in this thread. Ohhhhh! Bill Clinton was the subject of this blog post, wasn't he?

To get back on topic, I think Clinton at least tried to engage the Marine veteran protestor before he told him to shut up, no? Trump just yelled to kick out the veteran who was holding a sign in his rally

Jon Burack said...

I often get into these discussions when it is too late, but I agree with Ann. This sort of behavior is contemptible. From marines and mothers, from BLM fanatics and crybullies like the twit who started screaming at the Yale house master. There is a lot of it now. Trump is an example of it in a candidate. I have no love at all for the Clintons, but Bill Clinton deserved to be heard, every bit as much as David Horowitz does when he comes to college campuses. On many levels, this appears to be some sort of turning point year. I see this behavior, the fakery of candidates who constantly scream end-of-days hype, the talk radio right carnival barking whiners from Rush to Ingraham to Levin to Beck. I want my country back and I do not recognize it in any of this. I do not fear for my country, because I know it will bounce back at some point. But this is a year of lunacy and the unleashed dogs of war. You can have all of it.

buwaya puti said...

Sweden is less "socialist" than the US these days.
Their pension rates (median income PPP) are actually lower, their regulatory burden much lower. If they have "social capital" advantages, it certainly isn't the result of "socialist" policies. It's easier to build, environment and "planning" burdens are much less, etc. Their worst problem is hardly anyone can get a loan.

Nichevo said...

Buwaya 2/27/16, 3:21 PM - always

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Amanda Said:

to get back on topic

Hahahahah

Ignorant, liar and coward.

Amanda said...

Bill, blah blah blah, I still did not say Switzerland was one of the European socialist countries I mentioned. Cutting and pasting snippets of my argument in order to try to prove what I'd did NOT say is stupid. My comments are all there there in this thread in its totality dummy. Calling people liars because you are a poor reader is sort of laughable.

Dr Weevil said...

In her 3:24pm comment, Amanda quotes an eloquent (but entirely irrelevant) paragraph, allegedly "From Maybee's link". MayBee has only linked one document in this thread, at 3:08pm, and I can't find Amanda's quotation in it. Using Ctl-F to find a not-very-distinctive mass of verbiage in a 172-page PDF file is slow work, so perhaps it's there and I've missed it. A page reference would be helpful.

buwaya puti said...

We can certainly adopt some of these countries policies.
For instance public school policies, with strict curriculum control, advancement by examination, tracking, and goodness knows how many other rational improvements the US could take that would improve performance and efficiency.
The per student cost of public education is also far below that of the US. But US socialists are extremely stupid. And extremely corrupt.

Fabi said...

Amanda proves me correct immediately by deploying a tu quoque fallacy in her argument. Never would have predicted that! lol

Amanda said...

Bill,
I don't waste my time on those who have shown themselves to be unintelligent, done responding to you.

chickelit said...

Amanda said...Jaydub, I too have lived in one of the countries I mentioned.

Yes, but you were a child then, correct?

Amanda said...

Weevil, I'd start looking with the key word, hint, "social capital".

Fabi said...

I'm impressed that Amanda read all 172 pages in only 16 minutes!

Amanda said...

Jesus, why don't you dumbasses look at the table of contents?

Michael K said...

I think Amanda is best ignored and I intend to do so.

chickelit said...

We'll never get a straight answer from Bill or Hillary on Benghazi which is the big reason why the issue will never go away for them. Instead, we will get a candidate Hillary thanks to the DNC and despite the electorate. It's a done deal people. And there is absolutely nothing the DNC can put on the shit sandwich they're serving to mask the flavor.

Birkel said...

Hillary's War for OIL for France led to an Islamist shit hole.

Amanda supports the other Democrat, who supports the Soviet Union and Cuba.

Amanda said...

That's good Michael K, because I can out argue you easily. And honestly many of you here at such lazy thinkers. Hardly worth my effort.

MayBee said...

Dr. Weevil, it's in Chapter 8. Which goes on to say....

"of social capital, since it directly measures whether individuals in society trust each other. According to the results of the World Values Survey for the 2010-14 wave, 66% of respondents in the Netherlands and 61% in Sweden answered that most people can be trusted, compared with just 35% in the US and 28% in Russia. More- over, comparing the extent of trust in the 1981-84 sampling period with the recent period, trust rose in Sweden (from 57 to 61%), while it declined in the United States (from 45 to 35%). "

The chapter is descriptive, explaining why some countries are more willing to develop more socialistic policies, rather than explaining why the socialistic policies make people happier.

In other words, to get to Amanda's goal we would need to see government as less corrupt and trust other people more. When people like Bernie Sanders want to do the opposite- turn the people with money into the bad guys who must pay.

Dr Weevil said...

I found dozens and dozens of mentions of "social capital", Amanda, none of which seemed to be embedded in the sentences you claim to have quoted. Instead of calling people "dumbasses", why don't you do what a smart ass or even a barely-intelligent-enough-to-find-thistles-to-eat ass would have already figured out how to do, and give us the page reference?

MayBee said...

p 154

MadisonMan said...

I'd not mind a government such as Switzerland or Netherlands.

Which ethnic group in the USA will you cleanse so the USA can approach the racial homogeneity of the Swiss or the Dutch?

Dr Weevil said...

Thanks, MayBee. I knew I could count on you and Amanda each to act according to type - helping or not helping as the case may be. Not that the quotation is in any way relevant to the argument at hand, or her continued avoidance of the issue, but at least she didn't falsify the reference.
Since she refuses to stop altering my username in insulting ways, I think I'll be calling her Ameana from now on. Latinists will get the joke.

Amanda said...

Weevil, even with the hint "Social Capital" you couldn't find it? OMG. Chapter 8, page 154 on my iPad. Sheesh, pathetic.

MayBee said...

It's a little bit of a cart-before-the-horse analysis. The Scandinavian countries developed a Socialist model inn the 1930's (!).
They were and are homogeneous and trust each other, so they feel comfortable paying into social programs. The report goes on to surmise creating such programs would increase trust and the desire to have such programs.
But of course, it completely ignores how close in happiness countries like Mexico and the US are to the "happier" Scandinavian countries. And how other countries, like France, Germany, and the UK, are less happy (although it is a very small band)

buwaya puti said...

For instance, the US spends @10-15% more than Sweden, PPP, per child in K-12 equivalent for equivalent results - and Sweden is highly inefficient by European standards. This grossly worse in the US.
If the US were doing things the German way - which is "oppressive" in US terms - we would save 30% AND get better results. Higher efficiency in this huge area would certainly add more certainty to public pensions.
The simple, unavoidable fact is that even as a "socialist" operation, US government's, top to bottom, are grossly, even criminally, incompetent. This is true everywhere, from environmental regulation to education, to pensions, to health care - every last function of government in the US, is done like crap. What everyone who points at Europe as a place where such thing are done well, is missing the point. The fact is that the US instruments of government, a wholly owned aspect of the Democratic Party, are utterly worthless. And this is due to the truly excremental level of competence and values of the Democratic Party.

Amanda said...

I'm done spoon feeding you mental infants. Some of you, not all. This has become boring. I'm dissapointed. I was hoping for a higher level of intelligence here, or at least some energetic thinking.

Birkel said...

Amanda:

Stupid and incompetent.

cubanbob said...

Hate to be impolite but until recently all of the countries Amanda is stating as wonderful examples of socialism in practice were also mono-cultural and mono-ethnically and blindingly white.

Paco Wové said...

Flounce-off!

MayBee said...

Here's my energetic thinking: You can't make this the pro-illegal immigration, pro-Black Lives Matter campaign AND the pro-socialism campaign. At least, not if we are to learn from Amanda's pull quote. Making people think *other* people have a special status or will be treated better than them is the opposite of what it takes to create the trust to build Social Capital.
Nobody wants to just be the dupes for the takers.

Michael said...

Amanda

One s in disappointed.

Dr Weevil said...

Ameana, puella defututa:
Which of us is stupider, and ruder?
The one who failed to find an irrelevant quotation searching through 40+ instances of the phrase "social capital" in a 172-page document, or the one who could gave given the page reference with the quotation, as any honest disputant would have done, and saved us both enormous trouble?
The one who's still waiting for an answer to his question about how a country can be shown to be truly "happier" if it's also more drugged-up than other countries, or the one who refuses to answer or even acknowledge the problem, then runs away with stupid insults?
Hint: as the old saying goes, if everyone you meet seems to be an asshole, you're the asshole. Think about it.

Charlie said...

This used to be call seeking truth to power. Now it's called watching too many movies.

Amanda said...

Flounce off? Nah. Bored by the rigid, lazy, tunnel vision thought processes by some here. I can see why your nominee will be Trump. You're too lazy ( or defeated?) to think for yourselves, to follow a thought all the way through to it's conclusion, or any attempts to open your minds to other realities. You folks seem to think up to a certain point, hit a low barrier and then stop. There is absolutely no reason that this country cannot come into this century like most other modern nations. Why are you folks so willing to be left behind the rest of the world? Pathetic defeatists.

MayBee said...

How is the US- home of Apple, social media, Microsoft, Amazon, major pharmaceutical companies- not *in this century*?

Michael said...

Amanda would like a government like Switzerland's!! Well now. I think I agree.

Check out their policies on immigration. You, by the way, are unlikely to qualify.

Hagar said...

You guys are behind the times.
The Labor Party of Norway has officially declared it no longer is a socialist party, but has "evolved" to become a social-democrat party - still left of center, but no way "socialist."
I do not know about the other Scandinavian-speaking countries or Finland, but something similar is happening, since they have all long since turned around and are working on decentralizing and freeing up their economies as well as their social services.

Hagar said...

IOW, Amanda is full of it. These countries have all decided "socialism" does not work.

Hagar said...

For a Labor Party to forswear the Socialist label is sort of like the pope declaring himself non-Catholic; it is not easily done, even when the polls show the writing on the wall.

Gahrie said...

We can certainly adopt some of these countries policies.
For instance public school policies, with strict curriculum control, advancement by examination, tracking,


This will never happen, the demographics would simply be too unpleasant.

Jack Wayne said...

Birkel, I suggest to you that we have NOT left the Constitution because Congress has abdicated their "duty". The Constitution EXPRESSLY allows Congress to abdicate their "duty". When you say "all we need to do is return to the Constitution", you are making a circular argument. We are living the Constitution as it was written and as it was meant.

buwaya puti said...

If this country were to seriously try to come up with "modern nations" it would have to start with an enormous purge and simplification of the bureaucracy and a "right wing" direction in most aspects of governance.
It really is that bad. The semi-paralyzed French, for God's sake, are not this bad.
I don't see how the Democratic Party could survive that, the solution would amount to self destruction.

Fabi said...

Salve magister Curculio!

Terry said...

MayBee said...
How is the US- home of Apple, social media, Microsoft, Amazon, major pharmaceutical companies- not *in this century*?

The same way that overturning Roe V Wade would return us to the dark ages, aka 1972.

Paco Wové said...

"Amanda

One s in disappointed."


Good luck with that. This is the woman who willed entire National Wildlife Refuges, indian tribes, and an alternate version of the French language into existence rather than admit she propagated a typographical error.

John Henry said...

OGH says:

Show some respect... for all of us, and for this democracy of ours.

I'll show Bill all the respect that no good lying grifter pervert deserves.

Hey Bill, Go fuck yourself.

Good on the people not letting him get away with peddling his BS.

Next up, someone needs to ask him what he did on his trips to Pedophile Island. Perhaps the answer is something as innocent as "I lay on the beach and read 50 Shades of Gray". the question should be asked every time he pokes his nose up.

For Hillary, ask "During Bill's dogging days, did you ever procure any women for him?"

Yes, Ann, I agree fully. Give them both all the respect that they deserve.

John Henry

John Henry said...

People keep saying that they want civility in politics. Isn't that one of the things that Ben Carson offered us?

He is probably the most civil candidate I have ever seen.

Yet he gets dumped on for his civility.

Rubio goes uncivil the other night and everyone is all "Yeah, way to go Marco!"

Civility seems to be highly overrated. We don't want civility, we want circus.

John Henry

Michael said...

Pack Wove

Forgot. You're right.

madAsHell said...

And honestly many of you here at such lazy thinkers. Hardly worth my effort.

Amanda makes a few inane comments, and then declares she is the smartest woman in the room.
Set her in the corner, and she will find a way to lick her lady(?) parts.

CWJ said...

OK, bad CWJ says this is Althouse channeling her "good German" side watching the USA slide into goodness knows what. She'll be surprised right up to the very end. And that applies to both sides of the political coin.

Howard said...

buwaya puti: Are you aware that the states with the highest rates of VC funding are blue states (Cali's VC funding is >10X greater than your promised land, Tejas) and the states with the highest per capita welfare and social security payments per capita are red states. Why do you think it is that commie pinko's are so much better at free-market capitalism than the tea party crowd? Venture Capital is attracted by ambition, hard work, creativity and brains, in that order. These 21st Century values are the reality of democrats and the pipe-dreams of republicans.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Last Christmas BLM protesters chained themselves together in intersections around a couple of malls in my city and effectively shut down several major streets. I was stuck in traffic for almost two hours. This year they staged protests at several restaurants, during brunch (since brunch is a white person thing, apparently) wherein they shouted in the faces of unsuspecting customers, etc.
The calls for civility in our public discourse and political expression are going to fall ondeaf ears, Professor. No one is really surprised when people call for "some muscle over here" anymore....that chick Click just happened to get caught. You and I might think it is a bad this g, but we should expect to see more, and worse, in the future.
Incentives matter. BLM has been successful. Code Pink was successful. There will be more.

Howard said...

John Henry: Ben Carson projects as a creepy christian creationist cultist. Pedophiles have perfect manners and Dr. Ben gives off that vibe.

Humperdink said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

"These 21st Century values are the reality of democrats and the pipe-dreams of republicans."

Howard sees results of prosperity, like high house prices and VC funding and thinks they are causes, not results.

Silicon Valley was the result of two guys named Hewlett and Packard plus the proximity of Stanford, a private university.

California has good weather.

Rich people can afford left wing politics AFTER they have made their money. It's a bit of white guilt and a bit of bubble social circles.

My daughter-in-law told me today that lots of her friends are moving to Austin. Not even California's weather can keep young ambitious people here enduring the abysmal governance.

Oh, and Carson is the nicest neurosurgeon I have seen. I have had a thought that he is being encouraged to stay in just in case Trump implodes. After next week, I expect that he will see it is futile.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
Silicon Valley was the result of two guys named Hewlett and Packard plus the proximity of Stanford, a private university.


And massive Federal R&D spending.

Birkel said...

Jack Wayne:

We likely cannot agree on what the Constitution requires.

Howard said...

Well, Michael K, why didn't the tech-boom take off in LA? More conservative, better weather, Cal Tech, USC and UCLA... not to mention UCSD and Scrips. I'll tell you, conservatives are better at the arts and the government teat, so you guys get Hollywood and Aeronautics.

Austin is the Santa Cruz of Texas without the killer green bud and the shit-hot startup mentality of the last old-school surfer town left in California. The only thing Austin has that California wants is Willie Nelson.

Birkel said...

Howard:
That sort of slander is low, even for a worthless shit like you.

Birkel said...

Dr. Ben Carson has the sort of reputation in his field that cannot be begged, borrowed or stolen.

Low life scrum like you simply cannot tolerate that sort of success.
I assume it is because you, like Democrats these last two hundred years, are racists shit-stains.

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
Michael K said...
Silicon Valley was the result of two guys named Hewlett and Packard plus the proximity of Stanford, a private university.

And massive Federal R&D spending.

2/27/16, 7:37 PM"

Amazing how liberal and lefty fortunes are inevitably based on government largess.
Hey Howard, connect the dots: smart people leave high tax and high cost of living states when they retire unless they are wealthy.

Howard said...

cubanbob: give us an example of a red-state tech powerhouse. there's a reason they call "you people" backwards

Humperdink said...

@Howard. Your labeling of a highly successful doctor as a pedophile is revealing of your character. A lefty commenting on a black man, overcoming enormous odds, to become a doctor. Just what liberals disdain.

Just shameful. But then, you have no shame.

Howard said...

Birkel: Grow a pair, Nancy. I am sure Carson is an accomplished doc and a good man. However, he has some very strange religious views and has the unfortunate mannerisms of a perv.

pm317 said...

And massive Federal R&D spending.

DARPA! Not so much NSF, it is useless.

Howard said...

Humphisdick: I just said he has the stereotypical manner of a perv, I didn't say he was one. This is an affect that is frequently demonstrated by mormons and evangelical christians:Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch and Ted Cruz.

Humperdink said...

@Howard. Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

buwaya puti said...

Howard,
I have been a resident of the SF Bay Area for thirty years. I have seen three waves of boom and bust here so far. I am IN the tech/computer/software business.
The original Silicon Valley companies were very right wing indeed, HP, Fairchild, Intel (ever heard Andy Grove speak?), Cypress Semi (jeez, have you ever heard TJ Rodgers speak?).
The Penninsula - Santa Clara leftwingery came in the latter days, after 2000.
The only unconstrained path for investment, VC or not, in the US under the current regulatory regime are those where nothing is made or built, because these are less paralyzed. Hence "silicon valley", where there is hardly any silicon made btw. VC capital in this environment is its own sort of bubble, financing companies to be taken public, that make no profits.
Most of the companies with money have huge piles of cash uninvested, because there is very little in the US to invest in, other than bubbles. This has been the way of it since the late 90s.
Outside the bubble the California economy continues to degrade, rapidly.
In Texas the economy is diverse, and the bulk of the people are better employed. I suggest you try the exercise of comparing median income of states adjusted by cost of living indexes, I recommend MERIC. California outside the bubble is in a truly terrible state.

Birkel said...

Humperdink:
If I were to meat the pig, I would put an Apple in his mealy mouth and roast him slowly. I love any sort of bacon.

buwaya puti said...

Hewlett and Packard were very right wing, and funded many conservative causes. In their day they were hated by the left like the Koch's are today.

rcocean said...

People need to understand that Google, Facebook, Twitter, and even Apple for the last 16 years aren't based on "High Tech" in the same way that the "old apple", Microsoft, and HP were.

The current group (Facebook, Twitter, Google) are based on marketing and social media. It had nothing to do with Technology or cutting edge software. Apple has really been an Entertainment/Social media company, not a cutting edge PC company, for the last 10 years.

rcocean said...

Zuckerprick only put Facebook in Palo Alto because he came from there. Google and a lot of others are in SF Bay area because of Silicon Valley. If SV had been located in LA or Boston that's where they'd be right now.

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