March 17, 2014

"Obamacare leaves the average 27 year old facing a gender-averaged 47.5 percent premium increase..."

"Even after subsidies, that’s an expense that many Millennials can’t afford. Perversely, such high costs make it even harder for us to purchase health insurance in the future, when we can afford it. By not signing up for expensive plans now, insurance rates will increase as soon as next year — for everyone. That leaves us with two choices: Buy an unaffordable plan now, or wait and buy an unaffordable plan later."

From a piece in the Las Vegas Review-Journal titled "We’re young, but we aren’t stupid."

"Gender-averaged"? I'd like to see that broken down into what the average increase is for a 27-year-old male and a 27-year-old female. The decisions are being made by individuals, each of whom is either a male or a female. I assume that males are looking at a much larger increase and are seeing much less advantage in having the insurance and that this is precisely why they are the most desirable members of the pool.

Young males know better than to gripe too bitterly about the burdens on the male. The above-linked article is written by a male — Evan Feinberg, the President of Generation Opportunity (whatever that is) — and he means to express himself strongly, yet he's bound by present-day gender politesse and only tells us about the "gender-averaged" problem.

With so much gender politics pandering to women, it's strange that men, feel the need to adopt a "gender-averaging" approach to talking about problems. I mean, I understand the desire to be safe and adopt a self-defensive posture, but some of this gender etiquette is utterly obfuscatory.

354 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 354 of 354
Bilwick said...

The Dumbest Generation hasn't caught on that the State has the power to do FOR you only to the extent that it has the power to do TO you. Of course, even older Democratic votes haven't caught on to that yet.

garage mahal said...

garage mahal would line any and all of us against the wall. And he would happily pull the trigge

You're a paranoid nutcase by even Republican standards.

Blue Ox said...

Alex,

Ah, I see. You "support the troops but not the mission".

Doctors making money = good (since they only do it grudgingly 'cause they're really swell guys).

"Hospitals" making money = bad (may I remind you that the Koch brothers are being protested for donating $10mil to build a new hospital wing).

Politicians who manipulate your health care options to save their own hides = ??? (I don't know, since you refuse to address this point).

jacksonjay said...

How about this for a headline:

Obama Commerce Department says Obamacare is Good!

jacksonjay said...

Maybe all that DHS ammo has something to do with it!

Seeing Red said...

Lololol Alex, if you think it was broken before, just wait.

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Todd said...

Alex, a doctor (hell I would even give you most doctors) might not go into medicine to make big money, at first. They may really do it to "help people" but getting there is expensive. Expensive in time, effort and money. Those student loans have to be paid back. They make crap as interns. When they finally are "real doctors" you don't think they want all of the nice things that they went without while working their way up to being doctors? They now have a commodity that can command a good price. Most take it and I don't begrudge them that as they earned it. Just don't say that they are a bunch of altruistic saints and are just as happy to bring in minimum wage. Also, if you gave them all free education and free training and minimal pay, you would get just want you paid for, a more educated version of the DMV.

Birkel said...

garage mahal:

You advocate a system.
The people who advocated that system elsewhere in world caused between 100 and 120 million early deaths in the last 100 years.

And you don't care about a leukemia patient because she's just an egg getting cracked for your oh-so-perfect omelet.

Your only motivation is raw political power.

You are an inveterate liar.

Nonapod said...

It's always stunning to see how limited a socialists understanding of human nature is. They honestly believe that doctors (as well as all other medical professionals) should be grateful to become indentured servants of the state after spending huge amounts of effort, time, and money to become doctors. And they apparently believe that government can run a health care system, despite a hilarious overabundance of evidence that government programs are wasteful, inefficient, and highly susceptible to corruption and fraud (for example: the billions lost to medicare fraud annually) and generally can do more harm than good. There's this strange willful ignorance, a refusal to accept reality.

Bob Ellison said...

I remember reading maybe 25 years ago that Hillenbrand was a "buy" because they dominate in an industry that won't go away.

That industry is casket sales.

I've got to look again. Should be a buy nowadays.

garage mahal said...

Wheeeeeee.

Birkel said...

Bob Ellison:

By that logic DailyKos is a buy because they dominate the market for basket cases.

Seeing Red said...

Vodkapundit has an Obamacare !!! Fail of the day post most days.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Correction BLUE OX:

David Koch gave $100 million for which the hospital in NY is now being protested by Leftists.

garage mahal said...

Birkel
By the way, Hitler was a libertarian.

Mark Nielsen said...

Late to the conversation, but I have to chime in on something. Alex is arguing that the profit motive isn't needed for maintaining our health care system -- that doctors do their work motivated only by the desire to help people.

True to some degree. There are *lots* of people motivated by the desire to help people, and we'd never have a lack of people going into medicine even if we removed the high salaries.

However, what would change is the *quality* of the people we'd have going into medicine. I work in higher education. Working in the administration of a science college, I see the competitiveness we currently have at work. It's a good thing, with good results. People motivated by the desire to help others also become K-12 teachers. Look at those two audiences and tell me the profit motive doesn't make a huge difference.

Bob Ellison said...

garage mahal, Hitler was a socialist of the very statist kind. Really, read a book.

Birkel said...

Sure thing, garage mahal, you inveterate liar.

You cannot even accurately quote your own, current links.
The fact that you lie about everything no longer shock.

Garage mahal is a liar.

garage mahal said...

You cannot even accurately quote your own, current links

I didn't quote anything you fucking moron. I copied and pasted the text and link.

Levi Starks said...

Althouse on vacation, initiates a thread guaranteed to go over 200.
I knew the USA was screwed when I first heard the words "individual mandate" and thought to myself "how absurd"

Birkel said...

No you didn't, garage mahal, you inveterate liar.

You truncated the headline to fit your preferred lie.
Because you are a liar, garage mahal.

Birkel said...

WSJ Headline:
Obamacare Effects Account for Most of Income, Spending Increases

Your "Quote", aka Lie:
Taken together, the Obamacare provisions are responsible for about three-quarters of January’s overall rise in Americans’ incomes.

******

So you lied by omission.
The truth was in the headline.
But you removed the part you found inconvenient.

That, garage mahal, you inveterate liar, is a lie.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob Ellison said...

garage mahal, the article you cite tells how Medicaid (a welfare program) is responsible for most of the rise in income, and the rise in spending is mostly due to Obamacare (consumption of health care).

So the economy is better because we're giving more money to people, and they're spending it on health care.

That's in the article you cite.

Perhaps you haven't heard of the broken window fallacy.

Anonymous said...

I don't know. Guys are more at risk to join the 27 club, but women get pregnant at that age. I would think it's closer to equal.

It won't be long until initial student loan deferment and repayment is linked to proof of health insurance.

They need to move on to a primarily single payer model with a glaze of specialty private insurance.




Birkel said...

Bob Ellison,

The things about which "garage mahal" is unaware are legion.

Also in the article "garage mahal" cited was a reference to the increased "taking" by the government.

Of course, printing money is inflationary and a tax on the future.

garage mahal is an inveterate liar.
He cannot be helped.
He cares only about raw power.
He is a Leftist.
A statist.
And a liar.

Bob Ellison said...

garage mahal, since apparently you like the WSJ, you should take a look at this article, which explains how employment is at a very low level, and Obamacare has likely played a big part of that.

n.n said...

Medical insurance is not equivalent to health care. Obamacare is a revenue scheme to compensate for a dysfunctional government.

Ideally, the market would function to reduce or constrain costs through productivity improvements. Unfortunately, Obamacare not only preserves the status quo but actually exacerbates it.

The problem with health care, as well as with education, as well as social welfare, is the formation of monopolies and monopoly-like behaviors that have ensured progressive inflation and less accountability. Obamacare is the latest effort to fleece Americans, which will motivate further compensatory demands. This is where the unions, especially public, got into trouble.

Health care is not a moral right. It is a service provided by free people. Charity, however, is a moral obligation; but, it is a mutual obligation. Life, on the other hand, free from threats of murder/abortion, is a moral right.

How many lives are the Left willing to sacrifice? One million? Two million, every year. Their obsession with money and libertine things is immoral.

Bob Ellison said...

n.n said "Health care is not a moral right."

If I recall correctly, all of the Democratic candidates in 2008, and some of the Republicans, said health care was a right.

"Economic rights" is a fundamental principle of leftist philosophy. Hey, garage mahal and Alex, embrace your inner Marxist. If you think people are born with a right to health care and an obligation to pay the tax for it (or is it a penalty?), don't shy away.

garage mahal said...

Always remember B, Hitler was a libertarian.

Birkel said...

n.n.,

You are absolutely correct about health care. It is not a right.

If it is a right, then forcing people to provide for that right is acceptable.

Thus, we make it all the way to George Orwell: freedom is slavery.

Things only a Leftist could think!

Kathy Antley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

garage mahal continues to lie.
garage mahal is an inveterate liar.

Congratulations for repeating the lie that Hitler was anything beyond a statist intent on the centralization of power, just like you, garage mahal.

n.n said...

Levi Starks:

The individual mandate is a survivor's tax. According to Holder, whether you are active or inactive, but perhaps not aborted/dead, then you are subject to this tax.

Increased revenue; reduced problem set; and they are still running a trillion dollar deficit. The Left is notoriously obsessed with capital capture, and are generally control freaks. Their bubble economics is a short-term solution with periodic consequences. The worst case occurs when left and right have convergent interests, then there are no moderating forces to prevent people from running amuck.

garage mahal said...

Hitler: small l libertarian, or big L libertarian? One thing we absolutely do know is Hitler was indeed a rock-ribbed libertarian.

So, B. is responsible for millions of deaths. Hate to have to look in the mirror after knowing THAT!

damikesc said...

Todd - funny that the British NHS doesn't have to worry about being sued.

Often a surefire plan to insure terrific service.

Private companies also could not spy on any form of communication involving you that they want.

ObamaCare IS our health care system now. What are you going to repeal?

Health insurance companies changing policies without customer input = lawsuit.

Obama changing policies without customer OR legislative input = SPLENDID FUCKING IDEA!

Also, slavery was a part of the economic system. Now, true, Dems didn't care HOW to replace that, but Republicans did worry and did replace it.

The simple solution is to take the profit-motive out of the medical-care industry. Nationalize it like every other civilized country has already done.

Because the government's track record in handling things well is so damned perfect.

Also, a LOT of countries now require supplemental care due to how terrible their care is.

The point is health care is a moral right. It's not something that should be subjected to market forces like an iPhone.

Can you name anything that was improved by removing market forces?

damikesc said...

By the way, Hitler was a libertarian.

Of course. That whole "state control of everything" is part and parcel of basic Libertarian philosophy.

Always remember B, Hitler was a libertarian.

Repeating the same idiotic inanity doesn't make it true.

Hitler: small l libertarian, or big L libertarian? One thing we absolutely do know is Hitler was indeed a rock-ribbed libertarian.

I'll waste my time and ask:

In WHAT way was Hitler a Libertarian?

Birkel said...

"garage mahal" wants an increase of centralized power.
"garage mahal" subverts everything else to his Will to Power.

Therefore, "garage mahal" will lie about anything, no matter how easily refuted.

"garage mahal" is an inveterate liar.

n.n said...

While health care is not a moral right, it does promote the general Welfare. My criticism is in three parts. First, the so-called reform does not address progressive inflation, including the related education costs. Second, the so-called reform does not address availability (e.g. Michelle Obama's legal or bureaucratic triage function). Third, the so-called reform does not address productivity, which is necessary to mitigate corruption.

And of course... Make life, not abortion. I question the motives of pro-abortion/choice advocates. There is no reform without reducing costs and increasing resources. There is no liberty without personal responsibility.

Michael K said...

The Welfare and Institutions code of most counties include a clause that the county is responsible for providing health care for the citizens. The Welfare and Institutions Code includes such provisions. That's where county hospitals come from.

14000.1. It is the intent of the Legislature that health care
services available under this chapter shall be at least equivalent to
the level provided in 1970-71.


There you are. Join the queue.

Bob Ellison said...

Yeah, it's getting weird. Birkel keeps saying garage mahal is a liar, and I don't have an opinion on that, but this "Hitler was a libertarian" thing is Goebbelsesque. It doesn't become true just because you say it over and over again, garage mahal.

Birkel said...

Meanwhile, back in the real world, people are experiencing increased costs, decreased service and generally worse experiences from Obama-Insurance. The effects are felt directly without the typical time delay required to fool some of the people about the costs of legislation.

Obama-Insurance is costing people in the middle class. Those people have friends. And the broad cross-section of America will not be fooled by liars like "garage mahal".

Birkel said...

Bob Ellison:

I'm trying to make a search for "garage mahal" return "liar" on the various search engines. It's not hard to google-bomb.

I'll stop since you indicate it's bothersome. Also it's not like anybody doubts "garage mahal" is a liar, especially given his rewriting of history.

Birkel said...

Michael K:

Wow! 1970-1971 levels of care.

That's some excellent knowledge.

Thank you, sir.

garage mahal said...

Obama-Insurance causing minor inconveniences, or death camps. I know which one I wouldn't want on my conscience.

Bob Ellison said...

That's cute, garage mahal. But you brought up Hitler, stupidly.

This seems like a game. You're like Mario, jumping from thing to thing, and just now, you're saying your opponents went Godwin's Law on you.

You're playing a game, like Alex. You want to win the game. I just want a fair game and a shot at a good life. You want to control.

Can't you let go?

Anonymous said...

Did Birkel just learn how to spell "w-a-l-l" today or what?


n.n said...

equivalent to the level provided in 1970-71

It is for this reason that a population control protocol is an integral aspect of every left-wing regime. Their bubble economics suffer catastrophic failure sooner unless they can "stop" time.

I wish this was just a matter of indulging in rhetorical flourish, but history records their policies and executions. The circumvention of natural and social feedbacks inevitably requires progressive compensatory measures to preserve stability, which forces a dysfunctional convergence. All systems are prone to this outcome, but their systems fail by design. They can only be successful in small, homogenous populations.

Birkel said...

And here we see what the Left believes:
It is merely inconvenient to have life-saving care delayed because the government inevitably turns to rationing. Now, as the bodies pile up a good Leftist will be able to deny the effects.

After all, it's just "the system". There's no agency involved. Nobody is actually causing the deaths.

As I have stated, the problem from a political perspective is that Obama-Insurance causes direct, undeniable harm to average people. That means lying is required for defenders of the law. Thus, accused pederast Harry Reid must deny any costs to any people because of Obama-Insurance. And here we see "garage mahal", defender of accused pederast Harry Reid, making the same arguments.

James said...

We need to put to rest the canard, oft repeated on this blog, that automobile liability insurance is compulsory.

It is NOT. Not in Texas and not in California. Not in New Hampshire and not in Wisconsin. If someone knows where it is compulsory, please let us know.


@jimbino. Obviously you don't live in Wisconsin or you'd know that auto liability insurance is mandatory: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/ins-req.htm

Mandatory auto insurance was one of "Diamond Jim" Doyle's final gifts to his trial lawyer and lobbyist backers.

Helenhightops said...

Here is one reason doctors are afraid of Obamacare: http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20130817/MAGAZINE/308179924

If the patient stops paying premiums, they have a 90 day grace period; for the first 30 days the insurance company is on the hook for payment. For days 61-90, the doctor or hospital is responsible for collecting the payment from the patient. Providers have no way of knowing whether premiums are in arrears or not. Imagine being an oncologist, and ordering some of these chemo agents, and then finding out your practice is going to lose 50,000.00. Only a few of these patients could bankrupt your practice in short order.

Anonymous said...

I can't figure out why you all engage with Garage. I understand the desire to engage, in a public forum, with someone who is as wrong as Garage so that no one is lead astray.

But is he persuasive enough that we ought to worry about it? He's sorta a one trick pony.

Hitler
Koch Brothers
George Bush

He has a hammer and everything he sees is a nail. It doesn't seem to matter what the discussion is, when he is troubled to answer for his convictions, he fails miserably every time and resorts to ad hominem, a fallacy.

He's an active and probably sincere leftist, but not a very bright one. You all should just let him throw out his terrible one liners and if someone responds, confused, because they don't know Garage and how insincere he is, then jump in. Otherwise, you're just feeding a troll.

Brian Brown said...

garage mahal said...

I didn't quote anything you fucking moron. I copied and pasted the text and link.


Yes, and the link refuted what you were trying to say.

It isn't the first time.

Brian Brown said...

garage mahal said...
One thing we absolutely do know is Hitler was indeed a rock-ribbed libertarian.



You "know" no such thing.

You're just a monkey flinging poo.

donald said...

I thought Obamacare was an insurance bill.

You stupid fat fuck.

jacksonjay said...

James,

Texas calls it "Financial Reponsibility"! That means insurance for most people.

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/pubs/consumer/cb088.html

jacksonjay said...

Eric sed:

I can't figure out why you all engage with Garage.

You got something else to do, Eric? I can't figure why you care?

Birkel said...

I think hitting baseballs in a batting cage is relatively easy but good practice.

I think proving "garage mahal" wrong is relatively easy but good practice.

I want to know what the talking points of the Leftist true believers are without venturing into the fever swamps.

Brian Brown said...

New health insurance marketplaces signing up few uninsured Americans, two surveys find

WASHINGTON — Cities, counties, public schools and community colleges around the country have limited or reduced the work hours of part-time employees to avoid having to provide them with health insurance under the Affordable Care Act, state and local officials say.

Mark D. Benigni, the superintendent of schools in Meriden, Conn., and a board member of the American Association of School Administrators, said in an interview that the new health care law was having “unintended consequences for school systems across the nation.”


Pity.

Another CBS13 Viewer Says Doctors Denying Covered California Plan


Many consumers faced hurdles signing up for Covered California health plans. Now they're having trouble finding in-network doctors.
-That article helpfully points out a woman can't see her Oncologist because of ObamaCare


Oh, this Obama supporter is in California:

I'm a 55-year-old woman in excellent health and have a catastrophic health plan," she wrote recently to Obama and California Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer. "I am completely happy with my plan. I received notice that the plan is being canceled and that to stay with a "comparable" plan my premiums would increase 88%, or $200 extra per month. To add insult to injury, the plan is INFERIOR to my existing plan."

And so is this Obama supporting couple:

The couple — Lee, 60, and JoEllen, 59 — have been paying $550 a month for their health coverage — a plan that offers solid coverage, not one of the skimpy plans Obama has criticized. But recently, Kaiser informed them the plan would be canceled at the end of the year because it did not meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. The couple would need to find another one. The cost would be around double what they pay now, but the benefits would be worse.

Woman Battling Kidney Cancer Losing Company Health Plan Due To Obamacare

But don't worry garage, nobody has been shown to be harmed by ObamaCare.

'Cause you're like so informed on this topic and stuff!

PS: According to the CBO about 31 million non-elderly residents of the United States are likely to be without health insurance in 2024

Brian Brown said...

Name anyone harmed by ObamaCare wingnutz!!!!

Ok:

Tina Wray

Brian Brown said...

Name anyone harmed by ObamaCare wingnutz!!!!

Ok:

Hunter and Mikayla Alford

Bruce Hayden said...

I don't know. Guys are more at risk to join the 27 club, but women get pregnant at that age. I would think it's closer to equal.

No - turns out the reality is that when things bad happen to guys, they die quickly, and that doesn't cost all that much, in comparison.

This from Google: The 27 Club is a group of popular musicians who died at age 27, often as a result of drug and alcohol abuse, or other violent means such as homicide or suicide.

Essentially, they did something bad, and either died where they did it, or ended up in the ER, where they died. The latter would be a one-time cost, and the former close to costless, in terms of health care costs. When my 21 year old brother fell climbing, officially, he died at the hospital, but that was likely more of a formality than anything. And, when a guy from our ski group crashed during paragliding training, he never made it to the hospital alive (since it was accidental, I think that there was an autopsy, and multiple causes of death were attributed).

garage mahal said...

I think hitting baseballs in a batting cage is relatively easy but good practice.

I bet turning those nozzles in the gas chambers was relatively easy as well. Good "practice".

Birkel said...

garage mahal:

Do you regret aligning with those who would consolidate power? Because it seems like you think killing people is bad from some of your comments. But then I know you support a political system responsible for the early deaths of between 100,000,000 and 120,000,000 people in the last 100 years.

So are you apologizing for supporting collectivism? Do, tell.

Bruce Hayden said...

Alex asserts that health care is a moral right. I would differ. First, you have to define the level of health care that is such a moral right. Does it include mere emergency care, and other relatively benign care? Or, should everyone be able to get pretty much any life extending treatment, for free? And, in that case, who is going to fund it? Remember, that supply and demand requires that as cost to the participants declines, demand increases, and as it nears zero, becomes close to infinite.

Moreover, why should it be a moral right in the first place. There are people who go to work every day, work hard, often well over 40 hours a week. And, there are many in this country who deffer gratification for decades in order to join difficult professions, such as becoming physicians. And, then there are those who have kids as teenagers, survive on the public dole, watching TV all day, and adding essentially nothing, except their progeny (the males of which often turn to violent crime, and the females to having more kids) to the national community. Why should those who contribute little, if anything, be able to claim equal health care to those who contribute greatly?

I should note that I am not advocating that those who don't work, and do not contribute, be left on the side of the street to die. But, rather, that the level of health care available to them be significantly less than that available to those who do work hard and those who do defer gratification, often for decades, to improve the national community.

garage mahal said...

Does "B." stand for Buchenwald? Just curious.

Seeing Red said...

Name anyone harmed by Obamacare? That's easy, anyone whose hours were cut to get under the 29-hour limit, our school nurses are about to be cut for someone with less experience, and a lot of substitute teachers are about to lose it because of the Obamacare rules. Just read the local papers on how your school district might be making changes.

Birkel said...

Collectivists kill people.
News at 11.

Collectivists deny the killing.
News at 8am.

Meanwhile, conservatives want you to get the fuck off our respective lawns.
That's not news.

garage mahal said...

Jay must be a changed person. I never knew he cared about single mothers, Obama voters, and people on CHIP/Medicaid. He used to advocate for the end of Medicaid entirely. And I'm pretty sure he is against the expansion of Medicaid leaving millions left out. Maybe he isn't a selfish, ghoulish fuck, and he's seen the light!

Seeing Red said...

You keep telling us you're rich, GM, why don't you donate to the kids' fund?

harrogate said...

Many here are conflating medical care providers with insurance companies. It's the latter that are mitigated by government-expanded coverage, and largely rendered moot by single payer.

Doctors and hospitals do not need the existence of powerful private insurers (or any private insurers for that matter) in order to profit handsomely.

But by all means, carry on with the *Doctors And Human Nature 101* lectures.

Fen said...

Garage is an active and probably sincere leftist, but not a very bright one. You all should just let him throw out his terrible one liners and if someone responds, confused, because they don't know Garage and how insincere he is, then jump in.

I've been on this blog for 8 years. Garage's purpose is to spike the thread, keep you talking about his silly arguments rather than anything substantial.

Seeing Red said...

And many conflate having insurance with getting medical care, Harro.

harrogate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

harrogate:

Many Leftists confuse Obama-Insurance with the provision of health care services. This is an intentional deception by those you support politically.

Obama-Insurance provided no new doctors. Or nurses. Or midwives. Or shamans.

harrogate said...

Seeing Red writes:

"And many conflate having insurance with getting medical care, Harro."

Actually no, no they don't. They just know that "Because emergency rooms!" is not an argument.

harrogate said...

"And, then there are those who have kids as teenagers, survive on the public dole, watching TV all day, and adding essentially nothing, except their progeny (the males of which often turn to violent crime, and the females to having more kids) to the national community. Why should those who contribute little, if anything, be able to claim equal health care to those who contribute greatly? "

They're everywhere! Buying soft shell crab with foodstamps too! Them!

But in all seriousness, I would love it if the Republicans would say what Bruce Hayden has so refreshingly written here. If you don't want to expand insurance coverage to cover everyone on principle, because poor people don't deserve the same quality of coverage, then for Christ's sakes say so. At least Ron Paul had the balls to (well, almost) come out and say it just that plainly. Stop it with the distractions.

garage mahal said...

because poor people don't deserve the same quality of coverage, then for Christ's sakes say so.

And nobody who works hard is poor!

harrogate said...

Birkel,

I am not sure who these "leftists" are you speak of, but I know you see them everywhere.

I am not championing Obamacare. I was a proponent of the "public option" long before anyone knew who the fuck Obama was.

Birkel said...

harrogate:

Nobody purer than you. Full collectivist or nothing!!

It is no consolation that I am correct. You lot will destroy the Golden Goose or die trying.

Birkel said...

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

You collectivists are frivolous.

harrogate said...

It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all.

Revenant said...

It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all.

It would be a decent thing to do in a world of infinite resources, certainly. In the real world, of course, everything comes with a cost. Is it "decent" to impoverish future generations to pay for the health of people today? I'd say not.

Mark said...

Getting to the party late, skimming, I at first assumed the "Hitler was a libertarian" thing was a joke.

But no, I think that's going to be the season's Big Lie. Just when I thought what passes for Progressivism couldn't get any more lame, Garage lops off a couple more inches above where the knee used to be.

Mark said...

It's decent to give your own money to causes you feel are good and noble. It's theft to give other people's money to the same causes.

harrogate said...

Revenant, the binary you pose is itself a construction.

Big Mike said...

By the way, Hitler was a libertarian.

@garage, you've written some unbelievably stupid comments on this blog, but that has to be a new depth for you to reach.

For the record, Hitler led the National Socialist Party.

And I challenge you to explain the difference between one of Hitler's gauleiters and one of Obama's 38 czars.

Brian Brown said...

garage mahal said...
Jay must be a changed person. I never knew he cared about single mothers, Obama voters, and people on CHIP/Medicaid.


So in other words, after pretending that ObamaCare hasn't harmed anyone (and after preposterously suggesting Hitler was a Libertarian) you've now laughably tried to change the topic by making nonsensical allegations.

Nobody could have seen that one coming.

garage mahal said...

Is it "decent" to impoverish future generations to pay for the health of people today? I'd say not.

The CBO says ObamaCare will reduce the federal budget deficit by 109 billion over 10 years.

Brian Brown said...

harrogate said...
Many here are conflating medical care providers with insurance companies


Actually, no they're not.

After all, it is Obama who runs around pretending getting you an ACA approved medical card will get you to "keep your doctor"

But thanks for the lame attempt at a silly lie.

That's par for you.

garage mahal said...

So in other words, after pretending that ObamaCare hasn't harmed anyone

I never said that. I said the Koch Brothers were having a hard time finding any.

Bob Ellison said...

Hey, we're right here, garage mahal. We don't like to complain, and some of us are afraid to, because Obama seems happy to turn the IRS and other groups on anyone who complains.

But I have been hurt by Obamacare. I've documented it in this thread and in others. Are you paying attention? I and six million others.

Are you paying attention?

Brian Brown said...

garage mahal said...


The CBO says ObamaCare will reduce the federal budget deficit by 109 billion over 10 years.



Actually the CBO says: The new healthcare law will slow economic growth over the next decade, costing the nation about 2.5 million jobs and contributing to a $1 trillion increase in projected deficits

But hey, monkey, keep flinging that poo.

Anonymous said...

"It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all."

No one is stopping you from doing it with your own money. That would be decent.

It's not so decent when you're taking money from others to do it.

Brian Brown said...

harrogate said...
It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all.


By all means, pick out a poor family and pay for their medical care.

#Caring !

Brian Brown said...

Since May 2013, when CBO issued its previous baseline budget projections, the agency has reduced its estimate of this year’s deficit by $46 billion and raised its estimate of the cumulative deficit between 2014 and 2023 by $1.0 trillion

Michael K said...

Blogger harrogate said...

"It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all."

Food is an even more important public good. Is it a decent thing to provide it with public funds ?

The lefties are sure comfortable with offering the work of other people to the "poor."

There is an intrinsic conflict between those who produce and those who want to control. The latter are often quite comfortable using compulsion and even violence.

One reason the Ukraine isn't welcoming Putin is the memory of how well the Holodomor worked out for them.

I didn't go to medical school because I "wanted to do good" but because I was an engineer and it seemed a better career to me. I still teach medical students 20 years after I retired because I like it. I treated thousands of non-paying patients over the hears because they needed what I could provide and others, who could pay, provided me with a good living.

One consideration is that would not do these things for people who hated me or berated me. I didn't expect gratitude from everyone, a good thing, but I got enough to make it worthwhile.

The people running the country now have no understanding of what I am talking about. It is all about power and control to them.

Brian Brown said...

CBO said the debt will be 79% of GDP at the end of 2024 and "such a large debt poses a greater risk of precipitating a fiscal crisis"

And garage is laughably taking about these 'savings'

Guildofcannonballs said...

In Colorado the commercials feature a metro saying, in the Althousian unapproved as far as I know nasal dingus, I feel safe on my bike because I am covered. Premiums way cheaper than I thought. It's only $46 per month for bronze, but this metro tells us he chose the Silver as it was only $20 more. $66 per month.

So now, after he pays the $10,000 deductible, he can feel safe and secure he had Obama's back and was wise to do so if something happens.

Before he might have been lost forever in debtor's prison, if he had chosen life over the easier way out at his most vulnerable that is.

damikesc said...

Out of curiosity, now that he is spending his time referring to most of the posters here as Nazis...garage is kept here...why?

garage mahal said...

CBO

Q: Will 2.5 Million People Lose Their Jobs in 2024 Because of the ACA?

A: No, we would not describe our estimates in that way.

We wrote in the report: “CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 percent to 2.0 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor.” The reason for the reduction in the supply of labor is that the provisions of the ACA reduce the incentive to work for certain subsets of the population.

harrogate said...

Michael K. who, damn it, is a *medical doctor!!!!* once again ignores the question of the insurance companies. It really seems like he sees it as a debate over whether doctors have a right to be paid for their services. It's almost as though he is lying on purpose

Brian Brown said...

CBO’s Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee hearing today that Obamacare “creates a disincentive to work

And, people will be able to "retire" or "not work" by paying more for health insurance than they were while they were working!

garage is a deranged idiot.

Brian Brown said...

CBO: "exchange subsidies effectively constitute a tax on labor supply"

garage goes full stupid on not understanding what happens when you make the cost of labor higher.

Brian Brown said...

Garage thinks the federal government's "provisions of the ACA reduce the incentive to work for certain subsets of the population." is a good thing.

damikesc said...

It's not so pure to fund health insurance for citizens as a public good. Just a decent thing to do is all.

I don't get how decency can be purchased with other people's money.

Revenant, the binary you pose is itself a construction.

I'm not sure how it would be. The program isn't self-sustaining by any means. Which means these good intentions are passed onto people who didn't request this or have any voice on it.

The CBO says ObamaCare will reduce the federal budget deficit by 109 billion over 10 years.

At time of passage, with 10 yrs of taxes covering 6 yrs of outlays.

As of two months ago, they said it'll increase by, minimum, $74B a year (and as high as $1T over 10) (and that is assuming that they will actually fuck over doctors over compensation rates, which they have avoided doing for a long time now).

Add in the constant "delays" on the funding mechanisms and you have total collapse in the costs.

damikesc said...

Garage thinks the federal government's "provisions of the ACA reduce the incentive to work for certain subsets of the population." is a good thing.

Obama certainly does.

The problems aren't a bug, they're a feature.

Brian Brown said...

The CBO says ObamaCare will reduce the federal budget deficit by 109 billion over 10 years

No they don't.

Kirk Parker said...

Robert Cook,

Nice try pretending to ask a real question.

Next time, though, leave out the preposterous "Obamneycare" label, as it just shows you up as a leftie partisan.

Did O'care have some superficial remedies to the MA plan? Certainly. But the differences are more significant, and even more significant is the way the Romney acted and dealt while the MA bill was being passed. A bigger contrast to Obama, in terms of the way Romney worked across the aisle, could hardly be had.



And everyone, please!!! It's not enough to just compare the monthly premiums, before and after, and think you've understood the difference. In how many cases--or is it really all of them--is the annual deductible significantly higher with the new plans? So no only are you (probably) paying more out of pocket every month for the coverage, when you do have treatment needs you're paying a lot more before insurance kicks in. (Except for birth control, of course, can't have that!)

Brian Brown said...

CBO and JCT project that, as a result of the ACA,
between 6 million and 7 million fewer people will have
employment-based insurance coverage each year from 2016 through 2024 than would be the case in the absence of the ACA.


Isn't that nice?

maybe harrogate will help those people out

Kirk Parker said...

Alex, you moron,

When you've got a life-threatening situation that needs a lot of medical treatment, you just go on ahead over to the UK and let the NHS take care of you. We'll watch.

Kirk Parker said...

Garage,

"ObamaCare IS our health care system now. What are you going to repeal? "

Really, have you no decency? Non at all?

Of course the answer is Repeal The Whole Damned Fucking Thing. Every single disingenuous, have-to-pass-it-to-find-out-what's-in-it word. You have to be a special kind of either clueless, or loathsome, to not realize that in the aggregate what we had before was better than what we have under O'Care.

And don't give us any of that "the law is a one-way ratchet" crap, either. At one time, women had no legal right to vote. At one time, chattel slavery legal, then Jim-Crow-type apartheid. At one very miserable time, buying a bottle of beer or wine was a crime. We do not have "the law of the Medes and Persians" here.

Kirk Parker said...

Alex,

So.... health care is a moral right? Glad we got that settled: it time for you to start paying for mine.

Brian Brown said...

British Hospitals 'letting patients die to save money’

But see, that's ok, because dimwitted leftist harrogate got to feel good inside because those people were given government healthcare

Michael K said...

" It's almost as though he is lying on purpose "

Oh, I think I may cry. harrogate is upset with me.

No doubt, he/she is very knowledgeable about insurance companies that have a responsibility to ensure that the payroll checks they send out every two weeks don't bounce and that people are willing to buy their stock.

Obama and the lefties here seem to have the impression that insurance companies are public utilities, or should be.

I am not fond of insurance companies and have dealt with them for around 50 years. I have even worked for a couple of them since retiring. I know, for example, that they worry about getting sued by subscribers, something does NOT concern Medicare or Medicaid.

You have to try harder.

garage mahal said...

And, people will be able to "retire" or "not work" by paying more for health insurance than they were while they were working!

People are going to voluntarily "retire", to pay more for heath insurance than their previous employer? LOL! Keep stroking it Jay, someone will believe you someday.

harrogate said...

Michael K., instead of crying
Try not lying.

Michael K said...

"People are going to voluntarily "retire", to pay more for heath insurance than their previous employer? "

No, not voluntarily. That's taken care of. Nancy Pelosi thinks it's "funemployment," however.

damikesc said...

People are going to voluntarily "retire", to pay more for heath insurance than their previous employer?

...or they'll have their hours slashed to a degree that they cannot afford to work and going all-welfare would be a better deal.

jacksonjay said...

Nazi Hunter sed:

I never said that. I said the Koch Brothers were having a hard time finding any.

Garage, I asked for a citation on the claim and I don't think I got it!

Gotta link?

Michael K said...

" Blogger harrogate said...

Michael K., instead of crying
Try not lying. "

Ok, I'm ready to take dictation. What is your "truth ?"

Isn't that the way they did it for the "confessions" in the gulag ?

garage mahal said...

Garage, I asked for a citation on the claim and I don't think I got it!

The claim that the Koch Brothers seem to have a hard time finding real ObamaCare victims? Like a score sheet on their ads?

Michael K said...

I'm honestly curious what harrogate thinks I'm lying about.

The Obama line will now be that the failure of Obamacare is the insurance companies' fault. Is that it ? More DNC talking points ?

harrogate said...

The truth is that doctors and other health care professionals getting paid for their services is a categorically different issue than that surrounding the question of insurance.

Shorter explanation for mr engineer doctor insurance consultant expert :You wanna defend the private insurance system, have at it.

These are not subjective truths , just truths .

garage mahal said...

There is this Koch Group Abandons Obamacare 'Horror' Stories After Fact-Check Backlash

damikesc said...

garage, you cited talkingpointsmemo?

Well, we can ignore you as serious now.

harrogate said...

Nobody cares why you "went to medical school" Michael K. You're beating the hell out of straw men though.

Tim said...

If garage needs a "Obamacare cost me money" guy, I can be it. My policy was canceled. A new one , bronze!, was found. Only $1000 more deductible, $215 more EACH month, and initial out of pocket is only $6000 before the 80/20 kicks in. THANKS OBAMA! Maybe O'liar really said "you will spend $2500 more per year". Seriously , he IS the smartest man ever.

garage mahal said...

Tim,
Call up the Koch Brothers.

Tim said...

I know of no one who has saved money. Of course my circle of acquaintances all have jobs, for now. 6-7 million canceled policies and not one of the new ones is cheaper. A subsidized policy is just that, more expensive, just paid for the the working population.i.e. not the Free SH** Army.

harrogate said...

Tim is right: beware the Free Shit Army! Lazy people eating gourmet off the backs of hard workers is like totally the thing happening in America right now

jacksonjay said...

Of course, TPM is real journalism and the Koch people deny they are backing off! TPM wants YOU to believe they can't find victims.

OR

It could mean that Kochs are totally truthful and don't want to appear to be dishonest.

OR

It could mean that the Obama Mafia kicks the shit out of anyone who crosses them and Koch won't put anyone else in that position.

Michael K said...

"Shorter explanation for mr engineer doctor insurance consultant expert :You wanna defend the private insurance system, have at it."

Boy, there is some serious anger issue there. I assume you know what you are talking about, so why assume I don't ?

Maybe you should think about some professional help.

Here, I thought the thread was about health care and the failures of Obamacare. Little did I know those are "strawmen."

Michael K said...

Hey, the "fact checker" on the Boonstra ad has turned up !.

The same left wing web site.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that the absurdity of Garbage's claim that no one has been harmed by ObamaCare is self-evident - since by necessity some will benefit, while some will be harmed. The issue is how many in each category. The claim that there have been none in the second category, given that there are supposed to be millions in the first, and the system is not supposed to cost very much is nonsensical, and should be accepted as such. It is like believing in pixies and unicorns.

Bruce Hayden said...

Let me add to my last point, that no one has been harmed by ObamaCare, the title of the article, that "Obamacare leaves the average 27 year old facing a gender-averaged 47.5 percent premium increase..." Many young males who had health insurance are harmed, if no one else has been, because they are the ones who are supposed to be financing this with massive wealth transfers from this demographics to mine - males almost old enough for Medicare.

garage mahal said...

I think that the absurdity of Garbage's claim that no one has been harmed by ObamaCare is self-evident -

Again, I didn't say that. Learn to read, then articulate. Probably impossible for you I know. But you got to try man.

RecChief said...

I thought Garage was an aging hippie, but after reading these comments, I am now firmly convinced that he is a 13 yr old. And less mature than his peers.

KCFleming said...

Isn't it time yet to talk about how the gays ruined St. Patrick's day?

Humperdink said...

Garage, I too have been hurt by ObamaCare and have responded directly to you in previous threads regarding that fact.

Additionally, my spouse's cousin, has lost her insurance coverage and her doctor because of ObamaCare. She has cancer. This was mentioned in a previous thread. There are millions of others like us.

Give it up.

Michael K said...

He can't give it up because he has nowhere else to go.

David said...

Hitler was a libertarian?

Garage, that's gotta be the stupidest comment I have heard in 2014. Likely to stay that way. I see no way it can be surpassed.

Humperdink said...

I have always heard, and the history books are replete with the fact that Hitler was a live and let live kind of guy.

caplight45 said...

Since garage has been endlessly refuted (using TPM to buttress your argument, really?) let us allow him to withdraw to be one with his shame. Perhaps a moment of Zen will bring healing for him. BTW- the guy does drive the traffic up. If I wasn't confident to the contrary, and I am unequivocally, I'd say Meade has garage and Crack on retainer.

I took a personal and self-imposed hiatus from reading blog comments for the last six months or so. Started back reading them this weekend. Dayum. Garage and Crack are way, way out there, like Kosmo Karamer when he does that little flip with his hand and pushes air through his pursed lips. Giddy up, blink, blink.

Michael K said...

Time to read a book. I have several choices.

Revenant said...

Revenant, the binary you pose is itself a construction.

It is what our society has opted to do: fund gold-plated health care for current citizens at the expense of future taxpayers.

We could opt to tax current citizens, of course, but then government-funded health care would cease to be a good deal for most of the people consuming it. It turns out that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unknown said...

Your blog is absolutely worth to read if anybody comes throughout it. I'm lucky I did because now I've got a whole new view of this. I didn't realize that this issue was so important and so universal. You certainly put it in perspective for me.


Jill
www.imarksweb.org

damikesc said...

Since garage has been endlessly refuted (using TPM to buttress your argument, really?) let us allow him to withdraw to be one with his shame.

Good luck with that one.

gerry said...

Vermont's single-payer system is going belly-up.

Rusty said...

David said...
Hitler was a libertarian?

"Garage, that's gotta be the stupidest comment I have heard in 2014. Likely to stay that way. I see no way it can be surpassed."


It's noteworthy when he doesn't assert something stupid.
Which isn't very often..........actually, never.


Rev. said
"It is what our society has opted to do: fund gold-plated health care for current citizens at the expense of future taxpayers.

We could opt to tax current citizens, of course, but then government-funded health care would cease to be a good deal for most of the people consuming it. It turns out that there's no such thing as a free lunch."

Show of hands. Who didn't see this coming?







n.n said...

Rusty:

They should have started with education reform. Despite that we have the most expensive education system in the world, a majority of Americans seem to be blissfully unaware of the function of their own bodies, and the inviolable laws of economics. This is where the need for abortion and progressive subsidies originates. thus justifying bubble economics, and the periodic failures.

Original Mike said...

If I wasn't confident to the contrary, and I am unequivocally, I'd say Meade has garage and Crack on retainer.

Althouse IS garage, isn't she?


Rusty said...

Mike I'm pretty sure garage is a real person. I've seen pictures. He can dress himself and find his way to and from his place of employment without supervision.
Crack is unemployable, I think, and never leaves his room so being able to dress himself is kinda moot.
They have morphed into internet characters whose opinions and ravings can be ignored and not lose too much of the thread.

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