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Ok. I'm going to say it.I seems to me there is a connection between being gay and mental illness (of course not all). I'm saying this as a supporter of gay rights and not a gay basher. Has there ever been any studies to explain why so many gays are screwed up? Is it because of the process growing up and not being "normal." Does "being gay" attract mentally ill people?
How do we know she's now lying about being gay?Seriously, I see I a few markers of pathological lying.
Bill, that's awfully unscientific. The people that make the news tend to be off the norm. And you notice the fact that a particular character is gay in a way that you take it as nothing that somebody else is heterosexual.What is your motivation to put more pressure on a category of human being that already has enough extra challenge living in this world?What you are saying seems unnecessarily mean. What makes you want to do that? I could casually throw out the theory that YOU are screwed up. Is this really the way we want to relate to other people?I know you are just asking questions, but...
It has been, and is, tough growing up gay.
I have a stereotype of gays being particularly into woe-is-me drama. I don't know where the stereotype came from, but it's been reinforced.
I am screwed up. I admit that.I'm asking a sincere question and not just based on one nut job. My best friend (known since kindergarten) is gay. I supported him through coming out, burying friends from AIDs, good and bad relationships. Most our friends are gay. My gay cred cannot be questioned.Now most gays had awful teenaged and early adulthood. Are we causing these problems I'm seeing. Is there something else involved? Does one deviation from the norm increase likelyhood of more deviations? I think its an interesting question.
As for Billy Jeff. Was he drawing a self portrait?As for Bill from the Republic of Texas; I'm not a particular supporter of gay rights. I do have several friends (including my college room mate) who are out and proud about it all. But I've seen some awfully mean things done to straight people who voted for Prop. 8 here in California. The love that dare not speak its name has become the love that just won't STFU. I'm a live and let live kind of guy, and gay rights supporters have gone over the line too many times. I don't care what they do in their bedrooms--but some of the stuff that they've done in the public square in terms of advancing their rights goes way beyond the pale.
She also claimed to be a veteran but was tossed out of the reserves.
All the gay people I see on TV shows are better looking, more talented,and more intelligent than the norm. Aren't they all like that?
Anyway, even if the story had been true, there was no reason to send this person money. People who were bilked do not really have my sympathy. Maybe try the Salvation Army next time.
@Bill,I seems to me there is a connection between being gay and mental illness....I think maybe a better way to phrase that is that if one is psychologically messed up, it often expresses itself entwined in one's sexuality. There are gay, lesbian, trans, & straight ways of being "over the top".Back in the days when people believed in Freud, the statement that neuroses & psychoses are mixed with sexual identity would have been met with a big "Well, duh!".
I seems to me there is a connection between being gay and mental illness.There is:http://psychcentral.com/lib/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/0006527Nut graf: "Rates of depression, anxiety, OCD, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents."Has there ever been any studies to explain why so many gays are screwed up?"Why" is a profoundly difficult and commonly unanswerable question when it comes to psychology.
Yet another hoax in the service of exposing bigotry, racism, etc.For me, this one didn't even pass the smell test. Unless your server proclaims her sexual preference while you're trying to order or during your meal, how are you supposed to know that you should stiff them and write a disapproving comment?What I found most interesting about this hoax is that even though the original claim was weak on its face, even after the diners called bullshit with evidence in hand, it was the diners' statements that were couched with qualifiers rather than the hoaxster. PC has made cowards of them all.The great crimes of crimes, bigotry and racism, must be preserved!
but but but homophobia...or something
It's not the people who lie that are the biggest problem. There are fakes everywhere of every persuasion.The problem is that the agency drivers accept every claim at face value, and the media treats it pretty much the same way.
Bill, it's not just homophobia. Look at the race hoaxes recently. there are a couple theories from ......bloggers as to why. Here is a link to David Thompson's thoughts:http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2013/12/because-lying-and-resenting-is-what-angels-do.htmlAnd Ace's:http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345417.phpAce thinks it's a kind of Muchausen Syndrome.
Interviews with work colleagues portrayed a women who was a pathological liar, likely narcissistic and an all around basket case. The real question is why the restaurant bothered employing her.
An identity defined in terms of victimhood needs fresh injections of oppression to sustain its existence
I have no idea whether it is true, but it would not surprise me if homosexuals manifest more signs of mental illness. There is unusual pressure and uncertainty for the gay person. In some places, this is because being gay means that you are more likely to be mocked, excluded or rejected. In other places it's the pressure for gays to conform to the acceptable norms of gay belief or thought. Finally there is the pressure to come our or, once you have, to be an activist. Gays who want to keep their sexuality private are told they are traitors to the cause.Either way it's tougher in some ways. This might make depression, anxiety and other mental issues more common.Do not hold your breath waiting for a credible study of this issue. Too much political pressure to allow an unpoliticized study.
The only one that are not hoaxes at attacks on a Church. Three vandals broke into a Church and destroyed a painting of a Pope with expletives and ruined the church organ last week here in Boston. Earlier this year two men vandalized a church breaking a crucifix in half and urinating in holy water. Told my oldest kids that we have to be careful in public, as they get older. That if we express our belief we will be ridiculed as stupid and ignorant. ( yeah, marriage & pro life stance) These ideas have twisted that we are hateful people. Pray for them and speak in charitable code, but we have to be careful outside of Church & family. We live in a city, they know all about fatherless and the needs of the poor very closely. They aren't sheltered from what is outside, but they are sheltered from media.
Did the Clinton doodle remind anyone else of the Jackie Treehorn scene from The Big Lebowski?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNLWbT3W0EQ
Renee,This! My prayers are with you.
Her 15 minutes of fame are extending to a several days of shame.
Serious question: Do we actually know that Dayna Morales is a lesbian? If so, how do we know? It was assumed from the get-go based on the probably-fraudulent scrawl on the receipt, but if you subtract that, what's left?
Ann, I have no idea at all why there's like six inches of blank space beneath my last comment. If it's something I did, sorry.
Regarding Bill Clinton, I'm surprised it wasn't an open mouth.
Are any of these kinds incidents actually real? Seems like about one in ten is anything but a hoax.
Michelle, They interviewed ex-girlfriends.
IF a greater percentage of gays/lesbians suffer from emotional illness than straights, why would that be a surprise? Until fairly recently there was almost universal condemnation of homosexuality in this country. Growing up gay was hard (and my guess is that it isn't always a walk in the park now).But that's no reason to claim that dishonest behavior by a gay/lesbian, as apparently exhibited by this waitress, is a justification for continuing to denigrate people because they're gay.
Renee,Michelle, They interviewed ex-girlfriends.Ah. Technically that proves that she isn't straight, not that she's lesbian, but close enough.
1) The suicide rate of homosexuals compared to the suicide rates of other groups that have faced worse discrimination.2) The continued lifestyle choices in the face of the AIDS deathtoll.It may not be 'scientific', but it's a pretty damning starting point for drawing a correlation between mental illness and homosexual preferences.
Renee mumbles: Told my oldest kids that we have to be careful in public, as they get older. That if we express our belief we will be ridiculed as stupid and ignorant. ( yeah, marriage & pro life stance) These ideas have twisted that we are hateful people. Renee, from what I've seen of your commentary, you are stupid and ignorant. Maybe not hateful, but that's kind of a side issue. And no, it's not a religious thing. I suspect Pope Francis would be embarrassed by you, but he'd maintain a polite silence, because he is a saintly man. But maybe your kids will rise above.
I am more interested in the mental health issues that made so many perpetually, agitated liberals, fall for this obvious scam. Is it the overweening need to feel superior to everyone? They fall for hate hoaxes too, without much prompting. That is a more curious mental illness I'd like to study.
Anent Clinton's doodled penis. Doodled alleged penis. This being the Thanksgiving season, I saw that as a turkey leg on the right side and a turkey neck (complete with wattle) on the left. Now if this had been Valentine's Day, perhaps I would have seen what you saw, Ann.
And regarding the claims that gay people are supposedly more likely to suffer from mental illness, if that is even true, it's easily explained. Living in a society that has a lot of social conservative bigots in it will lead to that. If more people become socially libertarian, that is one of the things that will improve.
"It seems the woman who falsely claimed she received an anti-gay 'tip' from two patrons...""... never donated the money she received from supporters to help wounded vets like she promised."Liars lie.In other news, Bill Clinton doodled a penis.OK, there are many sins here. But everyone seems to be missing the most serious: "like" should be "as".
This is crazy. Professor Althouse is quick to jump on others for a lack of intellectual rigor and discipline in her comments, but it's clear, Ann, that you can't seem to talk about homosexuality like an adult. Bill leads off with an observation that gays and lesbians, etc. seem to have a higher incidence of mental illness than straights... Which is patently obvious to anyone who is paying attention, and you jump on him for being "unscientific." For pointing out the obvious? The higher incidence of depression and suicide attempts among gays, the higher rates of alcohol and drug use (to say nothing of higher rates of sex addiction!) are extremely well established in the mental health literature. You can't paper over that even as you remove homosexuality from the DSM.Bill was dead on right here.
Furthermore, Ann, you turned his simple and accurate observation into a vicious and catty personal counterattack. It's bizarre. The topic of homosexuality for some reason, brings out the jurisdoctor Jekyll and Ms. Hyde in you.
According to somefeller, Renee is stupid and ignorant for believing marriage is between a man and a woman, like it has meant until recently and for being pro-life. How would you educate her properly to get her thinking 'right'? Explain why traditions with a proven track record and the desire to save babies from being butchered is ignorant? Perhaps it is your beliefs, pulled from the 'left's' ass, that are stupid. Asshole.
The Clinton doodle makes me really really want to know what Sandy Berger smuggled out of the National Archives.
Hmmm. 'somefeller' can't be bothered to issue even a pro forma criticism of destroying paintings and crucifixes, urinating in holy water, and ruining church organs, and thinks the only ones worth criticizing as "stupid and ignorant" are the Christians who go out of their way to conceal their beliefs to avoid abuse. Amazing that someone would so openly admit to his own stupidity, ignorance, and bigotry.
And someone who finds Christians contemptible per se should probably not use 'fornicator' as an insult, ARM does repeatedly on the comment thread just below this one. It makes him look like a hypocrite, enforcing Papal standards on one thread while mocking them on another. Or maybe just a fool, who thinks we won't notice that he has no consistent principles of his own, except that he's right by definition and anyone who annoys him somehow is not just wrong, but despicable.
Politics and attacking Catholics, twisting the words of Pope Francis has all become fun and games to openly mock and misrepresent Catholic teachings. It's all a good time to smear someone as a bigot. Pope Francis has been very clear on the teachings of marriage and consistent pro-life, stability of the family is key for the well being of children. Children have a right to know their parents and be raised by them. Even gay kids have a mom and dad, duh!Being gay isn't even a sin in the Catholic Church, but it doesn't mean we have to redefine marriage and deny the benefit of children being raised by both parents as a good thing for society. This is exactly what I'm trying to tell my children, what is out there for them. I'm going to show them this thread and let them know the mis-teachings that are being spread about Catholics.
For those interested on the Catholic teaching from an openly gay Catholic."The teachings of the Church on the issue of homosexuality are primarily found in paragraphs 2357-2359 of the Catechism, and contrary to what Miss LaValla wants to believe, Catholicism does not teach that homosexuals are not human. In fact the Catechism states: “They [homosexuals] must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” It continues on to emphasize the universal call that all people have to live chaste and holy lives. Pope Blessed John Paul II penned in his 1986 letter On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons that violence and crimes against homosexuals are to be condemned by the Church. Even the title of his letter denounces the absurd idea that the Church does not view the homosexual as a human.My personal experience, though, as a Catholic, who is also a homosexual, speaks louder than any document ever could. In the four and a half years since I voluntarily became a Roman Catholic I have never had a single priest treat me as less human than another Catholic because of my sexuality. I have never heard a homily where the priest said that homosexuals, or anyone else for that matter, were not human due to the inclinations of their hearts. I have been showered with words of encouragement in the confessional and have had the undying love and support of Catholic friends as I have shared this intimate part of my life with them.The problem here isn’t the Church. It is this culture that has somehow come to this warped and dangerous conclusion that if I don’t agree with you on every issue, if I don’t approve of your every action, if I don’t give you everything you demand, that I must hate you or view you as subhuman. It is precisely this culture that treats us as subhuman as it objectifies men and women in pornography and sexual promiscuity, denies basic anatomical and physiological realities, tolerates abortion on demand for any reason whatsoever, and mocks the basic idea of self-control."--------This letter will be published in a college gay newspaper!!!! AWESOME!!!
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It's the old lesson here--"on the Internet, no one knows you're not a pirate"--that is, you have to take anything with a grain of salt until it can be verified. What sort of person would donate to this woman just on her own word? They're almost asking to be fleeced.
People need to stop being suckers.
somefeller,Renee, from what I've seen of your commentary, you are stupid and ignorant. Maybe not hateful, but that's kind of a side issue.See, somefeller, Renee is a Catholic. Which means that, for her, whether something or someone is or isn't "hateful" is definitely not a "side issue." She and I have heard of the Great Commandment, if you haven't.
The Frog and the Scorpion
I also found it interesting that Althouse immediately crouched into an Inga-like defensive posture because she felt challenged by the question Bill offered. But that's what moms do.I have no objection whatever to gay marriage or anything else that recognizes Gays as full and equal members of American society, but I've noticed that the gay people of my aquaintance have considerably less emotional self-control than the average bear.
Althouse: "What you are saying seems unnecessarily mean."Sometimes facts are mean: "This study suggests that even in a country with a comparatively tolerant climate regarding homosexuality, homosexual men were at much higher risk for suicidality than heterosexual men. This relationship could not only be attributed to their higher psychiatric morbidity. In women, there was no such clear relationship."Suicidality and Sexual Orientation: Differences Between Men and Women in a General Population-Based Sample From The Netherlands
There is this as well:"Gay/lesbian participants reported more acute mental health symptoms than heterosexual people and their general mental health also was poorer. Gay/lesbian people more frequently reported acute physical symptoms and chronic conditions than heterosexual people. Differences in smoking, alcohol use, and drug use were less prominent."This is from nih.gov, so I guess it could be bogus.
So single people are not equal members of society? Of course you are not saying that. I understand that. Gay people are created in the image of God as well, and the backlash I've experience is stated as in the post above that their is a campaign to portray the Catholic Church teachings as wrong. We do not think of gay individuals as 'subhuman' or less worthy then anyone else. Marriage had a reason, a good reason rising to a government interest to recognize it. Even for non-religious reasons. We can't force marriage, but let's not discourage as a means for children to be raised by a father and mother. This isn't really about public policy anymore, it's all about the ability to openly call Catholics and other religious who still teach marriage as something else then the government has decided to be as hateful ignorant bigots. In the Presidents speech on inequality, he didn't really mention a lot of the impact of fatherless in our most at risk homes. Kids don't need a dad, they just need pre-K, food stamps, and their mother to be a higher wage. The president is calling for the religious community in the neighborhood to 'help out'. The Church or any religious institution isn't here to help out the government, we're here to proclaim the Gospel and live out the teachings of our faith.
Annie: "According to somefeller, Renee is stupid and ignorant for believing marriage is between a man and a woman, like it has meant until recently and for being pro-life."Yes, somefeller thinks that Renee is "stupid and ignorant" for holding the same belief that obama had until just recently.Fen's Law.
Annie: "How would you educate her properly to get her thinking 'right'?"We have plenty of relatively recent examples of how somefeller and ARM and Cookie would "educate her properly", and it's always the same.BTW, I'm still waiting to hear the condemnation of Castro for having his goons perform lobotomies on homosexuals and beating/imprisoning them.Wow.There must have been a gazillion conservative religious folks in that communist paradise.
Here's a Wendy's fastfood striker, a single mom, who wants $15 per hour so she doesn't have to work full time to make ends meet!The reduction to absurdity that postmoderns have made marriage is one of the causes of econommic inequality: Actually, there’s plenty of evidence that unwed childbearing, father absence and fraying kinship and community networks exacerbate the problems of low-income people and make it incredibly hard for them to gain a foothold in the middle class.Progressive policies and sloppy thinking frequently have bad consequences.
I can't be re-educated, I can only be made an example of with social shaming and name calling. It's like bullying in middle school, you become the target. No one wants to be the target, so everyone is compliant with the bully. Ideally, even if we would disagree and EVEN if the government public policies never changed.... there wouldn't be the unneeded campaign that in a consistent manner incorrectly states Church teaching on how we treat homosexual person and why teach marriage as marriage.for somefeller, #1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring" 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."Is stupidity...
Slick Willie's doodles seem to be word associations (frypan -> FRY= Former/federal Republic of Yugoslavia) & the president may have remembered that 'Dole' in Farsi means 'penis.' That fact was the subject of media coverage in the 1996 election since the prudish Iranian press was reluctant to use the p-word in headlines. Either that, or Clinton just likes penises. Unlike his wife, I hear.
Yes, somefeller thinks that Renee is "stupid and ignorant" for holding the same belief that obama had until just recently.During the 2008 campaign, when Obama said that marriage was between one man and one woman, I commented on Volokh that he was lying, because gays have been big Democrat donors for a long time. He was just saying that while wink-winking at them that he had no choice because of all the anti-gay sentiment in the black and union communities. In the present case, the day this story came out I knew it was a hoax. I have many years of audit background and several in forensic auditing and based on the uncontroverted evidence, the only possible explanation was that this server faked the whole thing. On a couple comments in various blogs, in addition to explaining why it had to be a hoax, I also warned that the reporter should verify what the amount of the Paypal donations was and whether she was really giving all of it to charity.
Geokster,Obama sponsered a healthy marriage/ responsible fatherhood bill in 2006. I felt as did others his stance was legit. Please consider the pressing problem of fatherless in our homes. I'm not 'anti' anyone. From my stance I'm trying to give individuals stability and love when they are children. There is a saying, "If a father loves the mother, the child will be loved". Why do we have to deny this ? How does this idea hurt gay people? It is this contradiction in our culture. We want the ideal that parents should love they gay children, but we can't express the ideal that mom and dad should love together?
They will never have anything other than hatred for gay people. Why doesn't Althouse recognize this? What makes her keep trying to get her commenters to be reasonable?
Fullmoon wrote:All the gay people I see on TV shows are better looking, more talented,and more intelligent than the norm. Aren't they all like that?That rule doesn't apply to many lesbians. At least the butch ones.
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