October 16, 2013

Ted Cruz would like to disagree with the premise of your question.

It was "a remarkable victory... a profile of courage."

139 comments:

bbkingfish said...

Ted Cruz agrees that Ted Cruz is a Great American Hero. Why am I not surprised? Oh, well. On to the next Great GOP Hope.

n.n said...

Cruz is right. The majority of House Republicans are right. A minority of House Democrats are right. Last time they compromised with Obama and Reid they learned that those two negotiate in bad faith.

There are consequences to devaluing capital and labor, and they are not restricted to America or Americans. Obama needs to explain where he spent nearly $4 trillion. Reid needs to explain his stubborn opposition to passing a budget. Both need to explain the imperative to preserve the status quo with the passage of Obamacare.

Inga said...

Hey Rocketeer, now THIS is desperation, lol.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

Or it's not really anything, either way.

Here's Nate Silver on budget showdowns:

...consider the ... story from President Obama's tenure in office that has the most parallels to the shutdown: the tense negotiations, in 2011, over the federal debt ceiling. The resolution to that crisis, which left voters across the political spectrum dissatisfied, did have some medium-term political impact: Obama's approval ratings declined to the low 40s from the high 40s, crossing a threshold that historically marks the difference between a reelected president and a one-termer, and congressional approval ratings plunged to record lows.

But Obama's approval ratings reverted to the high 40s by early 2012, enough to facilitate his reelection. Meanwhile, reelection rates for congressional incumbents were close to their long-term averages....

But what about the pair of government shutdowns in 1995 and 1996? It's common to find articles asserting, without qualification, that they were a major factor in prompting President Clinton's reelection.

However, the empirical evidence for this claim is thin. Clinton's approval ratings were somewhat higher a few months after the shutdown than a few months beforehand — but this was part of a relatively steady, long-term trend toward improved approval ratings for Clinton, probably because of solid economic growth.


We've dodged a bullshit storm. Lucky us. But the bull is still dead.

Henry said...

Hey Inga, can we agree that the Republicans failed in destroying Obamacare?

Inga said...

And, no one scoffed at House Republicans "doing something". 47 times they tried to destroy Obamacare. It wasn't any secret that they are nuts enough to bring down the country in order to pursuit their extreme ideological agenda.

traditionalguy said...

Obama's Jihad against the USA has entered its denuement.

Health Care is now a huge government club against all non-exempt citizens, as are all of their digital data , as will be the new politics of Immigrant rule over American elections, as is the death of the mighty US dollar and the Military that it once supported.



Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

I asked: Hey Inga, can we agree that the Republicans failed in destroying Obamacare?

Inga said: Henry, why yes, we can.

Good. Now we have a baseline.

Michael said...

the Daily Kos notes that 110,000 people have actually purchased Obamacare insurance. Need a run rate of 750,000 per week. Slightly off pace.

No need to repeal that which will repeal itself.

Henry said...

Then Inga deleted her comment.

Inga said...

If it would fail, I'd be thrilled actually. A Public Option should've always been part of healthcare reform.

Inga said...

No it's Ok, Henry, I'll repeat it. Why yes we can agree on that.

Mark said...

Ted Cruz has another $1.6 million in his campaign fund, greater power with Heritage, etc .... seems like a win/win for Ted Cruz.

This was never about America.

jacksonjay said...

Yeah, give us a public option so that the next petty POTUS can barricade hospitals and clinics!

Henry said...

Thanks, Inga. The conversation is out of order now, but so it goes.

Michael K said...

Cruz will probably come out of this all right. The losers will be the House GOP who caved. And of course the American health care system, which will be destroyed.

rhhardin said...

There's no scoffing in The Messiah.

Smiting, spitting and despising. S words.

S words into ploughshares.

Henry said...

If it would fail, I'd be thrilled actually. A Public Option should've always been part of healthcare reform.

Reforming and expanding medicare / medicaid would have been the wisest thing to do, but that would have taken a lot more courage than inventing something new no one was already invested in.

AJ Lynch said...

I am glad the Dems and libruls are pleased with the status quo. In fact, this time they seemed to have raised the debt limit without placing a dollar amount on the increase. So sorta like a blank increase - how sweet is that for the biggest deficit president in history?

Michael said...

Inga: Buffalo NY has a raft of new hotels that have been built to house the Canadians driving across the border for US healthcare. If we get the leftie dream of socialized medicine where will the Canadians go to get their surgeries? Think about that. Think about what a shame it would be to destroy healthcare for Canadians.

Rocketeer said...

I dunno. Seems he has a non-desperate point.

damikesc said...

the Daily Kos notes that 110,000 people have actually purchased Obamacare insurance. Need a run rate of 750,000 per week. Slightly off pace.

They ALSO need a lot of those people to be young people --- who Obama kept on their parents' insurance until age 26 and gave a no-bid contract to a development group to design the worst web site imaginable...because really terrible interface with virtually non-existant functionality will DRIVE kids into a thing that will cost them a ton of money for no appreciable benefit.

Enjoy the decline.

EDH said...

In a capitol where a shut-down isn't really a shut-down, and an impending default isn't an impending default unless those warning of it by choice cause it themselves, it's hard to separate reality from fiction.

Seems to me Cruz acted on principle: attempting to avert what he believed would cause the most harm.

I take the more cynical view: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

Did Cruz keep Republicans from delaying Obamacare instead of defunding it, as Norquist et al. claim? Maybe. But delaying Obamacare (or the individual mandate) likely would have been a pyrrhic victory and a gift to Obama.

I don't know the details of the deal: will the Obamacare subsidies (rather than the mandate) be delayed until income verification is in place? That measure would have broad appeal and make strategic sense. Did Cruz make that more or less likely?

Robert Cook said...

"Reforming and expanding medicare / medicaid would have been the wisest thing to do...."

Self-contradictory: "reforming" when used in the media and by the elites on Wall Street and in Washington means "cutting" and that is all it ever means. We could not at the same time cut and expand Medicare/Medicaid.

However, I agree: expanding Medicare/Medicaid would have been the way to go, but Obama made a deal with the insurance companies and pushed for something they would accept.

Inga said...

Robert Cook, exactly. Obama negotiated and it was a bad deal. We all lost on that deal.

Michael said...

Robert Cook:"We could not at the same time cut and expand Medicare/Medicaid."

Obviously not. But we are told that with Obamacare we can both increase the number of insured, including those who cannot be insured, and have the same or better care at less cost. Why would the one be evidently impossible and the other not?

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

I love the sound of Ted Cruz in the afternoon. It sounds like . . . leadership.

AJ Lynch said...

Michael:

In Cookie & Inga's kneejerk world, there are several absolutes:

Govt = good
Private enterprise = bad
Logic = not required

Inga said...

A profile in courage actually! LOL.

LarsPorsena said...

Robert Cook said...

"Reforming and expanding medicare / medicaid would have been the wisest thing to do...."

Self-contradictory: "reforming" when used in the media and by the elites on Wall Street and in Washington means "cutting" and that is all it ever means"

________________________________

'Cutting' in the Imperial City only means decreasing the rate on increase e.g 2% versus 5%.

Look at the Medicare/Medicaid figures and get back to me.

As for expanding Medicare/Medicaid they are bankrupting the nation as is. Costs spiraling out of control.

Seeing Red said...

I'm willing to give up "free" eye lifts, etc. to save Medicare.

That's the discussion that needs to take place.

Illuninati said...

Inga said:
" It wasn't any secret that they are nuts enough to bring down the country in order to pursuit their extreme ideological agenda."

It is rich when leftists accuse people who oppose their agenda to fundamentally transform society "nuts" and "extremists." Leftists are masters at twisting the meaning of the language.

Seeing Red said...

Who knew "free" BC and breast pumps would cost so much?

Inga said...

Seeing Red, that would require doctors with principles. They would need to stop signing off on these for people who don't really need them. If the lid obstructs vision it is warrented, if not it isn't. Simple as that.

Inga said...

Breast pumps don't need to be covered. Free BC would cut down on unwanted pregnancies, thus cutting down on abortion. But we are going off topic, Cruz is the man of the hour!

Seeing Red said...

Umm, Inga? We already had the breast pump discussion, this is all part & parcel of the same thing.

They're coming for someone's money one way or the other.

Inga said...

Seeing Red, so why bring it up again then?

Seeing Red said...

Not 2night I have a headache is even free-er. And healthier.

JHapp said...

It is a good idea to read what Madison had to say in Federalist #58 before you say something stupid like that CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent did.

Inga said...

Sometimes Seeing Red, what we want someone to do will not happen in the real world. Better safe than sorry.

JHapp said...

I counted 5 assertions and 0 questions by Bash, but that is pretty good for a CNN interviewer.

Jason said...

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! The liberal idiot thinks birth control can be "free."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Inga said...

Not really Jason. It comes out of your pocket and mine, it's very nice of you to help prevent abortions. Thank you kindly. :) it's a worthwhile cause.

Michael K said...

Inga, did you ever look at the info I linked for you on the French system ? It would cramp your rhetoric a bit so probably not.

Inga said...

Yes Michael I did.

jacksonjay said...

How about you help pay for my blood pressure control? Helps prevent stokes!
Colosterol control? Prevent heart attack?

jacksonjay said...

How about you help pay for my blood pressure control? Helps prevent stokes!
Colosterol control? Prevent heart attack?

Inga said...

Michael, also read this that night.

" The big difference between theirs and ours is that private insurance is not for profit insurance". I could get behind a system like that.

David said...

"Free BC would cut down on unwanted pregnancies, thus cutting down on abortion."

It would? Got a study?

I am sure that there are some cases in which this is true. But is there any data as to why people with "unwanted pregnancies" get pregnant? Anything that shows that lack of financial capacity is other than a very modest factor?

There's a huge industry supplying subsidized birth control. AS this industry has grown, so have out of wedlock pregnancies. Hard to tell which pregnancies are actually "unwanted." But the growth of the unplanned tells me that the cost of birth control is not the dominant factor. Negligence is.

YoungHegelian said...

@Michael K,

Could you please re-post that link on the French health care system. I didn't see it last time, and I couldn't find it when you last mentioned it.

Thank you.

Inga said...

Prevention IS key jacksonjay.

avwh said...

"It wasn't any secret that they are nuts enough to bring down the country in order to pursuit their extreme ideological agenda."

Inga:
that does explain the Dems spending with no budgets, unprecedented deficits, spiraling debt, etc - which WILL bring down the country eventually (Detroit is an early warning and example).

Funny how that works - applies better to your side, now that the "crisis" is over and your precious Obamacare is failing of its own administrative incompetence, but is left untouched by Congress.

Marshal said...

damikesc said...
the Daily Kos notes that 110,000 people have actually purchased Obamacare insurance. Need a run rate of 750,000 per week. Slightly off pace.


The 750k figure means 10M before the 1/1 start date. But Obamacare supporters claimed during passage there are 50 million uninsured people in America. Plus the ten million includes people whose plans were terminated due to Obamacare or who chose it because the subsidies made it more affordable than their old plans.

So how did Obamacare end up with this goal? They're either admitting 9/10 of the previously uninsured people won't be covered under Obamacare or that Obamacare supporters were lying to the public.

jacksonjay said...

Of course Inga, the point is, who pays for my preventative medication? Me or you?

Inga said...

Jacksonjay,
You, with perhaps a little help from me. Of course, it's negotiable. Since you are only hurting yourself and not an unborn child, if you don't use good preventative medicine, it's on you.

America's Politico said...

I thought Palin was the stupidest politician in America. Now I think it is Cruz. What us it about the party and voters that continue to support them. I know: the voters are also stupid. Birds of same flock, flock together.

Henry said...

Robert Cook wrote: Self-contradictory: "reforming" when used in the media and by the elites on Wall Street and in Washington means "cutting" and that is all it ever means. We could not at the same time cut and expand Medicare/Medicaid.

You should take that up with the Obama administration who featured "reforming" medicare in your sense as a means to fund ACA.

I was using "reform" in the literal sense -- as in, "make it more fair and more efficient."

Of course that would cost more. Which is another reason Washington ran away from it.

Rose said...

Ted Cruz stood for what he believed in - and what he knows to be true. Obamacare is a disaster in the making, as is the runaway spending in an out of control government.

The Republicans are - or were - the last chance for fiscal responsibility, and they caved.

If they did it because all they wanted was to win elections, then they deserve nothing, We don't elect them to go up there and position to run again, we elect them to do a job, some would say 'govern' (a term Democrats know matters so they throw it in to their propaganda, while flagrantly engaging in the opposite). They really have one job to do - conduct the people's business while entrusted with that position, and that means, among other things, NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU'RE GIVEN. It doesn't mean dreaming up new ways to extract more money to cover for your willful overspending.

Cruz did it for the right reasons, which is why the left - and his opponents in the hopeless Republican Party - is saying he only did it to enrich himself. What a sorry state of affairs when liars and cheats win the day. Worthless culls.

No tanks said...

Cruz. Don't like him. Reminds me of Gingrich in his glory days. He will flame out within the next year.

wildswan said...

The game isn't over till the fat lady sings.

Meaning: We don't know how Ted Cruz will be finally regarded until we know how Obamacare works out. If it goes on as it is going, it'll end up hurting the Dems and making Cruz look like a prophet and a hero. He tried hardest to stop it.

I think it'll be Frankenstein - lurching about hurting villagers, then close relatives, finally in a weird spasm ruining Obama's reputation.

In the old days people weren't covered but they were treated. In the new regime they'll be covered but not treated because they don't have a good quality of life score. That will hurt minorities the most and when people see that Obama introduced a plan certain to hurt his own folks the most then finally they'll see the man for what he is.

rcocean said...

Cruz has been a real winner in this. Lets hope he doesn't screw it up by supporting Amnesty.

Saint Croix said...

Today an NPR caller asks, "Why aren't we arresting Ted Cruz for sedition?" Completely serious.

And E.J. Dionne says, on government fucking radio, "Well, I'm a liberal, and I believe in free speech, but the caller does have a point."

MadisonMan said...

"Why aren't we arresting Ted Cruz for sedition?" Completely serious.

Oh for God's sake.

Cruz was working in the interest of those who elected him. I suppose he promised to do so, which was foolish, but it's refreshing to see a politician do what they say they're going to do.

At some point, though, if the wishes of the constituency run counter to the good of the country, well, the country should come first.

HT said...

What if John Boehner stopped smoking? I think that's what he needs to do. When I smoked, I had other bad psychological habits which I would smoke to. When I stopped, it was ever forward, time to get on with LIFE. He needs to get on with life, stop with the 20 something habits.

Michael K said...

" Inga said...
Michael, also read this that night.

" The big difference between theirs and ours is that private insurance is not for profit insurance". I could get behind a system like that."

Inga, it is so sad that lefties like you simply do not understand economics or health care.

Insurance companies DO NOT make money on health insurance. They make money on administering self funded employer plans. Do you understand that ? That is why they supported Obamacare. They wanted to ADMINISTER IT.

I doubt it.

Health insurance has not been insurance for many years, at least since 1965. It is prepaid care, just like HMOs.That is NONPROFIT !

Insurance covers non-expected events, like house fires or heart attacks.

The French system works, or at least works when unemployment is not 25%, because it covers only a basic amount that the patient gets AFTER they pay for care.

I can't and won't give you a seminar in health economics.

CMU, which you thought was such a big triumph, is for those who have not contributed to the system as designed. It is breaking the French system. They are now denying membership to immigrants, something Obamacare does and is one reason it will collapse.

Spain seems to be doing it too.

I don't think you can understand but you might try reading the series and replying. I doubt you will. It is so much easier to speak from ignorance.

pm317 said...

Who cares! (about Ted Cruz)..

This is a broken presidency living out its last few years either holding off Republican attacks or lazily cruising the country on some pointless, endless, fatuous campaign trail. Obama's administration is politically bankrupt.

Inga said...

Michael K, I quoted Kent Conrad. I trust he knows more about it than you do. Full stop.

Inga said...

Michae K,
And no damn kidding insurance companies like Obamacare and that they make their money administering private insurance. That is exactly why so many liberals didn't like it that Obama made a deal with them and rejected a public option.

Inga said...

Michael K,
And we sure as hell didn't need Bush to give insurance companies that wet kiss called Medicare Part D.

Inga said...

WHO rates the CMU as best in the world. France spends 11% of their GDP on healthcare. What do we spend? 17.9%.

Perhaps Michael K, you don't know as much as you think you do.

Inga said...

Oh! And where are we on the WHO list? 38th.

Joe said...

My gut feeling is that Cruz didn't stand for what he believed in, but for what he thought would appeal to republican voters come next presidential election cycle. His musings about his popularity and the stance he took border on the delusional. He's yet another candidate, like Palin and Obama, where followers project what they want to see onto him with scan evidence to support that. Ask yourself; what has Cruz actually accomplished in Washington besides chatter? Not much, if anything. Yup, another Obama-like big mouth.

damikesc said...

Michael K, I quoted Kent Conrad. I trust he knows more about it than you do

...who can POSSIBLY be smarter than a politician?

YoungHegelian said...

@Inga,

From a health care point of view, about 70% of the expenses of one's life time of care will be spent in the last 6 months of one's life.

I have had 4 relatives die under French health care. The government saved that 6 months of money by sending them home to die.

There may be good & moral reasons for such a protocol, but it really is "sending Grandma home to die" and it runs counter to the American genius. It also is, without a doubt, Palin's "death panels" incarnate.

Look at French society in general. Does the word "efficiency" come to mind when you think of French society? No, the French achieve their medical savings by cutting corners, just like they do in most everything else.

damikesc said...

BTW, I love the praise of Europe...who is, yet again, watching fascism fall upon them.

As always, fascism is descending on the US, but ends up landing in Europe.

What a useless continent.

Inga said...

I bet Grandma would've rather died at home. I understand the German healthcare system is somewhat different than the French, but my grandmother and my aunts died at home under the German healthcare system. They provided a home health care worker. The process was humane and was much appreciated by my family there.

Oh yes and I have many relatives in Canada, no complaints there either.

YoungHegelian said...

@Inga,

I bet Grandma would've rather died at home

There really was no choice as to where or when.

Oh yes and I have many relatives in Canada, no complaints there either.

Sorry, I can't believe that. My brother lived in Toronto for 20 years & hated the Ontario health care system with a passion. There are more MRI machines within 10 miles of my house in suburban DC then there are in all of Canada. In Canada, one routinely waits weeks for bypass surgery that gets one immediately scheduled in the US.

machine said...

"The first federal government shutdown in 17 years, triggered by a Republican demand to defund the Affordable Care Act on Oct. 1, cost the U.S. $24 billion in potential economic activity -- equalling at least 0.6% of projected annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth, according to ratings agency Standard & Poor's."


...heroes.

Inga said...

My relatives live in Leamington and London, Ontario. Sorry you have a problem believing this.

Basil said...

Inga, my daughter has cancer and the number of clinical trials in America dwarfs all other countries combined. If I want to spend my money on health care rather than a trip to Disney, who are you lefties to tell me "we" are spending too much on health care. The only entity that is spending more than it can afford on health care is the U.S. Government. Why do you think that Medicaid and Medicare are going broke? Running out of other people's money. Do you really want the President to be able to close the hospitals to get his way on a budget fight? To offer your freedom to the collective like you do is so sad.

Basil said...

Machine, the House passed 13 continuing resolutions which were not allowed to be voted on in the Senate. Who is going to pay for the $17 trillion and counting? Why is it compassionate to steal from the young who don't even get a vote to spend on free phones and contraceptives to buy votes?

Inga said...

A Strategic Counsel Survey Found Canadians preferred heir healthcare system by 91% over that of the American System.
Wikipedia:
"Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger."[9][10] A Strategic Counsel survey found 91% of Canadians prefer their healthcare system instead of a U.S. style system.[11][12] Plus 70% of Canadians rated their system as working either "well" or "very well".[13]

A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada[14] while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S.[11][12]"

Iconochasm said...

Inga said...
Michael K,
And we sure as hell didn't need Bush to give insurance companies that wet kiss called Medicare Part D.


Thanks, Inga. There was some left-wing columnist (Klein,I think) citing Part D as some huge success, and I thought I was taking crazy pills. But if you're still reciting the old narrative, then I guess I was remembering correctly.

And on the topic of WHO rankings, are you talking about the one where a quarter of the analysis comes from the subjective opinions of government officials regarding how egalitarian their system is?

YoungHegelian said...

@Inga,

Canadian preferred their health care system based on what? Actual experience of both? Or, compared to what they had heard about the US health care system vs their own? All is not well in an health care system that needs rulings such as this.

If one belongs to a class that would ordinarily lack health care in the US, then I understand the preference for the Canadian. But, if one has decent health insurance in the US, that's the top of the heap, world medicine-wise.

AprilApple said...

You mean to tell me the communist left want to throw Cruz in jail.

Not surprising.

Inga said...

I guess we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about the millions of uninsured, or preexisting conditions? Really?

AprilApple said...

I know a couple in who live in Toronto. He got cancer. Came down to FL for treatment. I wonder why?

YoungHegelian said...

I guess we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about the millions of uninsured, or preexisting conditions?

No, we should. But while we're doing so we shouldn't pretend that anyone has figured out how to deliver health care to an aging population that wants more & more of it. Every country's health care system consumes waaay more money than its planners thought possible.

We just have a different set of problems here in the US than they do in Canada, or France, or Britain. But they all ration care. In the US by money, in the others by government fiat.

AprilApple said...

Is it free yet?

"You think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it's free."

-PJ O Rourke

(enemy of the state - better throw him in jail)

Alex said...

Ted Cruz is no American hero. He runs in a safe state for him(Texas) where being ultra-red has no negative consequences. He's a firebrand because he can get away with it. He is NO hero.

YoungHegelian said...

@Alex,

He runs in a safe state for him(Texas) where being ultra-red has no negative consequences.

So, what yer sayin' here, Alex, is that he's no hero because he's carrying out the agenda that his constituents sent him to DC to carry out? That's why he's safe come election time.

Can't have it both ways, Alex. Heroic stand on principle or faithfully representing his constituents. Your choice. But both strike me as moral.

Alex said...

I'm not saying Ted Cruz is not a smart politician, but a hero? Come on. A hero politician would be willing to sacrifice his seat for the right principles.

Michael K said...

" Inga said...
Michael K, I quoted Kent Conrad. I trust he knows more about it than you do. Full stop."

Why would you think so ? Ever watch Hagel's confirmation hearing?

Long ago, I was part of a CMA (California Medical Association) group that met with a Minnesota Senator named Durenberger. Maybe you are old enough to remember him. He told us (members of the commission of legislation) that he was the only member of the Senate who knew anything about health care. He told us the others voted as their staffs told them.

I am touched by your confidence in the knowledge of a politician. But not surprised.

n.n said...

They sacrificed their first, second, third, ... child and all we got was inflated health care "insurance".

Michael K said...

machine, ask Natasha Richardson her opinion of Canadian health care.

Oh, sorry. You can't. No MRI machine

Michael K said...

" Inga said...
I guess we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about the millions of uninsured, or preexisting conditions? Really?"

Inga, I know this is hard for you.

Do you know how many people responded when they searched for those who could not get insurance due to prexisting conditions ?

Less than a million.

Did we have to blow up the health care for 300 million people to do that and to cover 10 million illegals ?

What Obamacare is is Medicaid for everybody. If they can get signed up that is, which I doubt.

The intent is Medicaid for everybody. Is that what you want ?

Of course you know more than I do.

Inga said...

Michael K, you're every bit as partisan as he is. If you think I should give more credence to you because you are a physician, think again. I think these guys are more trustworthy than you.


JHapp said...

'The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.'
James Madison, 1788

n.n said...

Michael K:

That's why they didn't run a trial in Detroit. They know that it is not a viable plan suitable for general implementation. They know that it preserves the status quo, inflated total and differential costs. Their experiment would not work everywhere because economic development is irregular. And since it is not backed by a productive population, it will sponsor corruption.

The voters sacrificed several million human lives for marginal care and progressive corruption.

Jane said...

"At some point, though, if the wishes of the constituency run counter to the good of the country, well, the country should come first."

James Madison would disagree with you. The constituency comes first. See Federalist 10.

somefeller said...

So in the end, the GOP gained nothing other than a new celebrity (Ted Cruz, the Joe McCarthy of the early 21st century) and Obamacare is cemented in the American public policy pantheon with the New Deal and the Great Society. Well-played, Tea Partiers, well-played. See you next season.

As a Frenchman might say, it is to laugh.

JHapp said...

Jane, I know something about what the word 'good' means. If Warren Buffet takes a dollar out his pocket and gives it to someone in need, that person may say 'thank you', and Warren may say 'your welcome'. When that happens the world is changed for the better and all of heaven rejoices. When Warren Buffet pays a million dollars in taxes, and it is redistributed, there is no 'thank you' and no 'your welcome', and a million dollars is wasted.

YoungHegelian said...

@somefeller,

Ted Cruz, the Joe McCarthy of the early 21st century)

Did Cruz accuse someone of being a communist or a fascist or even some kinda Fabian social democrat while I wasn't looking? If so, could you point me to a link?

You know, before you go casting slurs at people, it might help if you had an inkling of what actually happened in the historical event you reference.

somefeller said...

Aw, YoungHegelian haz a sad because I ridiculed one of his heroes. Alas. But don't worry, YH, Cruz has already compared people who don't share his obsessions to Nazi appeasers and said we need more Senators like the late and largely unlamented Jesse Helms. I'm sure he'll get to more dramatic outbursts over the course of his career.

Alex said...

When did a song ever begin on a chorus until "Strawberry Fields Forever"?

heyboom said...

@MichaelK

I was just reading an article by author Larry Correia titled "Internet Arguing Checklist" which is a guide to the way the left "debate" the issues. So far Inga, et.al., have hit almost every step on it.

The one that hit home right away was the way Inga completely discounted your qualifications as a doctor. That's item #2 on the checklist. I don't know how to do hyperlinks yet, so here is the address:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2013/09/20/the-internet-arguing-checklist/

Inga said...

Heyboom,
I've worked and even lived with physicians. I'm not impressed easily by them, despite some of them demanding obiessance because of their MD.

Inga said...

I spelled it the French way.:)

elkh1 said...

The shutdown saves the Republican House until they pass an immigration bill which will be changed to the Senate version in conference.

phantommut said...

According to every poll I've seen, most Americans don't want Obamacare.

If it continues to burn like a bag of dog poo on their doorsteps, they will want it less and less as time goes by.

Republicans were worried it would work well enough that the masses would just accept it as same old same old, because they're all the same corrupt bastards.

Well, Cruz drew a line and said their is a choice.

Maybe that choice wasn't the one a particular citizen would have made when Cruz made his stand, but at least now the ones who've been screwed see they had a choice, and will have a choice.

Roll back the government.

phantommut said...

The Alamo was a tactical loss. It was a strategic victory. I don't give a rat's ass about which side gains or loses as long as the federal government gets reigned in.

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Almost Ali said...

I've never in my life seen so many political forces arrayed against one man as they are against Ted Cruz. Every Dem, every RINO, all the Commies, you name 'em; Cruz is apparently the devil incarnate.

Except for Alan Dershowitz, Cruz's former Harvard law professor. Maybe you caught Dershowitz's appearance on Piers Morgan night before last. Although they differ politically, Dershowitz did say that Cruz was one of his brightest students ever, highly principled, and virtually peerless in debate (which John McCain and Diane Feinstein learned the hard way).

Even more impressive is that even after the shutdown battle is over, the attacks against Cruz (and the Republicans in general) haven't let up - in fact, they've increased. So much so I could hardly watch the TV last night: "Boy, the Republicans are in trouble now!" "That Ted Cruz, what a self-serving opportunist!"

Because the truth is, come 2014, the left knows there's going to be hell to pay.

damikesc said...

Know who had a plan that covered way more uninsured than Obama are?

Bush in 2007. No mandate either.

Dems didn't support it.

Jon Burack said...

This claim of Cruz's to having accomplished something is revealing: "official Washington scoffed." Apparently, the thing that Cruz and the rest of the talk radio right most relish is sticking it to some entity they call "official Washington." Meanwhile, the fact that vast millions of ordinary citizens are also now scoffing matters little to them. They do not even appear to notice it. And these are the people who rail against D.C. insiders!

Jon Burack said...

This claim of Cruz's to having accomplished something is revealing: "official Washington scoffed." Apparently, the thing that Cruz and the rest of the talk radio right most relish is sticking it to some entity they call "official Washington." Meanwhile, the fact that vast millions of ordinary citizens are also now scoffing matters little to them. They do not even appear to notice it. And these are the people who rail against D.C. insiders!

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somefeller said...

Because the truth is, come 2014, the left knows there's going to be hell to pay.

Yeah, the "the liberals are really scared cliche". As repeated as per Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, etc.

The truth is, 2014 should be a good year for the GOP because it's an off-year election in the last term of a Democratic President. That's US Poly Sci 101. But I suspect it won't be as good as it should have been and if the GOP loses seats in the Congress, it will be to laugh.

Oso Negro said...

As a Ted Cruz voting Texan, I am getting exactly what I wanted when I voted for him. This funding episode has been cast as "fail to fund, Republicans lose; fund and Obama wins". Ted is saying, nope, I don't agree with that.

Sooner or later, one of the airheads in the media will challenge the trope, repeated here by Inga, that the conservative position on smaller, more affordable government is "extremist." It would be interesting to know just what level of overspending is required to be rated as just one notch less than "extremist". For example, if you advocate routinely spending 20% more money than you have, would you still be considered extremist? What about 25%? What amount of overspending does it take to rate a "sensible"? 75%? 80%?

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Robert Cook said...

"If one belongs to a class that would ordinarily lack health care in the US, then I understand the preference for the Canadian. But, if one has decent health insurance in the US, that's the top of the heap, world medicine-wise."

Aye, but there's the rub: how many in America have decent health insurance? How many don't?

Also, how many don't, who did? How many won't, who do?

Robert Cook said...

"Robert Cook:'We could not at the same time cut and expand Medicare/Medicaid.'

"Obviously not. But we are told that with Obamacare we can both increase the number of insured, including those who cannot be insured, and have the same or better care at less cost. Why would the one be evidently impossible and the other not?"


Don't assume I am the one to defend Obamneycare; I opposed it as a sell-out to the insurance industry while not providing a real solution to the problem of access to good and affordable care. However, the argument is that by getting many more people into the pool of those paying insurance premiums, the insurance companies' revenues will increase through the volume of new customers, thus obviating the need for them to increase premiums. As, among the pool of new customers it is assumed there will a large cohort of young, statistically healthier people, there will be, relative to the total of those in the pool of premium-paying customers, fewer persons in any given time period needing to make good on their insurance by seeking care. Thus, the insurance companies profits rise through an increase in volume of premiums being paid and a relative decrease in expenditures on medical care.

This is my thumbnail description of my understanding of the argument by those who favor Obamneycare.

chrisnavin.com said...

I think Robert Cook, the avowed socialist, and Inga, the perpetually aggrieved progressive nurse. speak for middle America.

Rusty said...

chrisnavin.com said...
I think Robert Cook, the avowed socialist, and Inga, the perpetually aggrieved progressive nurse. speak for middle America.

Yep.
Get used to it.
They're the ones that are going to tell you how you must live.

I was informed this morning that the by one of my wife's uber liberal academic friends that the ACA meant more freedom for everyone and if we have to penalize those that are better off to do it, it will be well worth it.
He was so serious I laughed.
Fools

Sabinal said...

Joe said

My gut feeling is that Cruz didn't stand for what he believed in, but for what he thought would appeal to republican voters come next presidential election cycle

and how is that different from Obama? Or any other politician?

Robert Cook said...

"I think Robert Cook, the avowed socialist...."

When have I ever avowed that I am a socialist?

chrisnavin.com said...

Ok, Cook, so you're a recovering socialist then? A social Democrat? An aging revolutionary?

chrisnavin.com said...

I was being a little sarcastic, and highlighting how easily once you grease the skids, that middle America can slide where you want it to go.

Right now, it's interesting to note that these two claim to be the center.

The Tea Party is claiming much the same thing and rising in opposition in populist ground swells, but not winning the big elections.

Inga said...

Aggrieved? Nah. I'm actually quite happy.

Robert Cook said...

Grand Theft Health Insurance

Robert Cook said...

"...it's interesting to note that these two claim to be the center."

If I'm one of "these two" you refer to, where have I ever claimed to be the center?

Inga said...

Yeah! When did I ever say I was in the center? I've always claimed to be a proud leftie.

Rusty said...

Inga said...
Yeah! When did I ever say I was in the center? I've always claimed to be a proud leftie.

A few months ago during some abortion debate or whatever you proudly claimed to be a centrist or moderate.

Hyphenated American said...

Liberal congressmen and media personalities, with their claims that tea party is racist, terrorist, treasonous, hostage takers and must be arrested, make McCarthy sound like a soft-spoken, reasonable man.

damikesc said...

Aye, but there's the rub: how many in America have decent health insurance? How many don't?

By Obama's inflated numbers, about 10% of the population lacked insurance.

So, screw over 90% for the 10% who "don't have insurance", even though most of them could get insurance if they wanted it.

I say "could" because Obama has made individual policies impossible to get now. Well played.

Liberal congressmen and media personalities, with their claims that tea party is racist, terrorist, treasonous, hostage takers and must be arrested, make McCarthy sound like a soft-spoken, reasonable man.

Especially when one realizes that McCarthy's core assumption was quite accurate: The Soviets had spies deep in our government.

Rusty said...

phantommut said...
The Alamo was a tactical loss. It was a strategic victory. I don't give a rat's ass about which side gains or loses as long as the federal government gets reigned in.

Nice try. But you can't paint a good face on "We're fucked,"
The Ingas and garages and the Cooks have won. Because of the ACA every citizen is a servant of the state.

Almost Ali said...

The left is acting like ACA will work.

Which is what they said in 1917 about the collective. Which turned out like Michelle's glorious socialist garden; rotting in the field.