May 17, 2013

"Dzhokhar Tsarnaev note found in boat points to mystifying motive we may never truly understand."

"... So, probably just teen alienation then."

Yes, of course! Just look at his face!

46 comments:

Bob Ellison said...

Why try to understand? We should instead try to deal with it. Understanding is probably beyond us; it's a tangential path that could help, but it tends to lead people away from the primary goals.

rehajm said...

What's to understand? People and administrations engage in inscrutable behavior.

Bob Ellison said...
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Gahrie said...

The problem is, not only is there no such thing as moderate or reform Islam, Islam itself states that anyone attempting to reform or moderate Islam should be killed.

A significant portion of humanity believes it is their duty to God to convert by any means, kill or enslave the rest of humanity.

EMD said...

Getting to the original report in this link is the internet equivalent of Russian nesting dolls.

Michael Haz said...

Islam hates and wants to kill us. Islam promises paradise to those who kill non-Muslims.

What part of this is a "mystifying motive we may never truely understand"?

Bob Ellison said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lem said...

I take him at his word... otherwise we just keep obscuring and hampering our ability to identify them next time... AGAIN.

Lem said...

Getting to the original report in this link is the internet equivalent of Russian nesting dolls.

Its part of the point of the post... Althouse leads and everybody else follows.

traditionalguy said...

What's so hard to understand about murdering your gang's enemies. It is initiation and drive us are the best way.

carrie said...

We need a sarcasm font.

carrie said...

They need a sarcasm font.

Bob Ellison said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ann Althouse said...

Bob Ellison said "Why try to understand?" and
rehajm said "What's to understand?"

What's to understand is the material at the links and sarcasm and concision!'

Come on! Those shouldn't be the first 2 comments on this post. Get up to speed before you write.

Bob Ellison said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ann Althouse said...

Bob, sharpen up. This is not a café post.

Bob Ellison said...

Good; at least you've caught up with me by deleting the crap I posted above.

But you talk about sarcasm and concision. This is a sore point with me: some people (cough *academics* cough) think that just by throwing up an argument, they invite discussion, and they can always run away from the argument by saying "is that what I really meant?" It's the Jon Stewart mode. Am I a comedian, or a pundit?

Again: why try to understand? Until that question is answered, the discussion is silly.

Peter said...

As long as we live outside the Dar al-Islam we shall live in the Dar al-Harb.

In which case, we who inhabit the Dar al-Harb may as well make the most of it!

creeley23 said...

I got off the liberal bus when they explained 9-11 with the usual oppressed third-world victim "Why do they hate us?" stories.

I had already done my homework on Islam and knew that whatever religious functions it might provide, Islam contains a violent supremacist ideology at its core, which is no more respectable than the KKK.

The inability of leftie-liberalism to come to grips with the reality of Islam led me to question more and more, and soon the whole rotten edifice collapsed on me.

Almost twelve years later and my liberal friends are no more the wiser. In fact we seem to be worse off because their head-in-the-sand beliefs are now cemented in laws and policies.

Tibore said...

"Dzhokhar Tsarnaev note found in boat points to mystifying motive we may never truly understand."

"Motive" is a terrible thing to look at in this case. The motive is easy: The brothers were full of hate, all the crud about America attacking Muslims is just a post-facto excuse for acting on that rage. The real question is, what leads these folks to chose to only be selectively knowledgeable of the elements which they cite as angering them? They can talk about America's actions in Iraq all they want, but ignoring Al Qaeda's actions there and the fact that the Anbar residents chose the US over other Muslims is precisely the sort of inconsistent thinking that characterizes adolescent rage instead of adult analysis (which is damning judgement of the brothers; even the younger one was years into true adulthood, in age if not mentality).

When "motive" gets talked about, notions of critical thinking and actual justification often get swept under the rug. All that's seen is that the brothers were angry "at America" (in reality, just angry period, with America being the convenient target), and there will be little discussion on whether that anger is justified or not. It'll all be about what external factors contributed to the "motivation" and very little about what internal mental and moral failures led them to act in a most ugly way on them.

Mitchell the Bat said...
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Mitchell the Bat said...
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Mitchell the Bat said...

Hot Air is simply wrong.

The reports don't say that at all.

Perhaps the colon has taken on some new meaning.

I'm overdue to get mine scoped but I'm in no hurry.

Cedarford said...

If I understand things -

1. There was a blood-covered written confession that discussed motive and victims located by the "Armed Heroes" as Dzhokar was extricated from the boat cops riddled with bullets, along with adjacent homes.

2. This confession was located within minutes as the boat was searched for guns, bombs, other forensic evidence.

3. It is certain that the Armed Heroes shared that information about a written confession with the FBI, DOJ, Homeland Security. It is highly likely the FBI took immediate custody of that evidence.

4. Despite this confession and other compelling circumstantial evidence and Dzhokar's own statements saying he did it - Holder rushed to Mirandize him. Supposedly to "preserve better chances for a conviction". When they already had a gift-wrapped case even an affirmative action lawyer could win.

5. The Armed Heroes, FBI, DOJ, Obama, and Patrick Deval all did not share news of this confession of the usual Muslim motive for Islamic butchery with the public for over a month.

edutcher said...

Ann, people are sick of efforts to "understand" and "reach out" to these cutthroats.

Thus, some understandable impatience.

Tibore said...

"edutcher said...
Ann, people are sick of efforts to "understand" and "reach out" to these cutthroats.

Thus, some understandable impatience."


You're right, and I agree: Lots of people are because too often, "understanding" really means "take their side in order to rip on your country". I'm impatient with that myself. That's not understanding in the real sense, that's cherry picking of data used to justify selective application of criticism without analysis of real truth. Understanding like that this world can do without.

However, I'd hope that people recognize there's a damn good reason for real understanding. Sun Tzu laid it out over 2 millennia ago, and it very much applies here.

dreams said...

Those darn teenagers.

Larry J said...

The irony of his carjack victim having a Coexist bumber sticker is delicious. Look at those symbols on the sticker. One of those things is not like the others. Their idea of coexistance is conversion, submission or death to the others.

As long as they believe that, why should anyone want to coexist with them? Battered Woman Syndrome? Do we have it coming?

Roger J. said...

I don't believe evil can be understood--it just is. The difficulty for some is the inability to call it what it is and try to understand it. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows, but regrettably the shadow was fictional.

Roger J. said...

I don't believe evil can be understood--it just is. The difficulty for some is the inability to call it what it is and try to understand it. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows, but regrettably the shadow was fictional.

EMD said...

Hot Air is simply wrong.

The reports don't say that at all.


Yes, Hot Air teased out a conclusion that was not evident from the CBS report. At least that's what it seems without going back and re-reading everything twice.

kcom said...

"Why try to understand?"

What difference does it make anyway?

/channeling Hillary Clinton

Michael K said...

"The real question is, what leads these folks to chose to only be selectively knowledgeable of the elements which they cite as angering them? "

It helps to understand that the "Islam Golden Age" was conducted by "Levantine" Greeks and other Christian "converts" who did the art work and the translations of Greek literature (at least some of it- The Arabs were not interested in plays and philosophy) while the Arab Muslims lounged in their harems or killed infidels.

During this period the Arab world became an intellectual center for science, philosophy, medicine and education; the Abbasids championed the cause of knowledge and established the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, where both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars sought to translate and gather all the world's knowledge into Arabic.[2] Many classic works of antiquity that would otherwise have been lost were translated into Arabic and Persian and later in turn translated into Turkish, Hebrew and Latin.[2] During this period the Arab world was a collection of cultures which put together, synthesized and significantly advanced the knowledge gained from the ancient Roman, Chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, and Byzantine civilizations.[2] They also used the decimal system and began the use of Algebra in order to solve complex mathematical problems.

The decimal system came from India as did the "Arabic" numbers and medical discoveries came from Jews like Maimonides who had been expelled from Spain by radical berber Muslims.

The Crusades put the Islamic world under pressure by invasion in the 11th and 12th centuries, but a new and far greater threat came from the East during the 13th century: in 1206, Genghis Khan established a powerful dynasty among the Mongols of central Asia. During the 13th century, this Mongol Empire conquered most of the Eurasian land mass, including both China in the east and much of the old Islamic caliphate (as well as Kievan Rus) in the west. Hulagu Khan's destruction of Baghdad in 1258 is traditionally seen as the approximate end of the Golden Age.

So, you see, it was our fault the Golden Age ended.

And such is the state of leftist self hatred.

Dean Douthat said...

In all the world's religions, evil is understood to exist, is usually understood as a problem, especially for personal monotheism and is often personalized, e.g., as Satan.

I know of no other religion whose basic scriptures are acknowledged to have partially been created by evil except Islam. (cf The Satanic Verses). These sura were indistinguishable from "legitimate" sura but were later revealed as Satan's handiwork in later sura. Here are some questions for Muslims:

1) When did Satan stop dictating Koranic sura?
2) When did Satan start dictating Koranic sura?
3) If Satan decided to create a religion that would destroy humanity, how would it differ from Islam?

Robert Cook said...

Lotta stupid here.

Robert Cook said...

"I don't believe evil can be understood--it just is."

This is just childish.

Rabel said...

The sarcasm is in reference to Charlie Rose's question at 1:50 in the video: "Does it answer questions about motive?"

He put on his best serious Charlie Rose face and held up his serious Charlie Rose pen which verified his seriousness. I'm Charlie Rose, Bitch!

The motive is and has been obvious, so that question drew the sarcasm in the headline.

Roger J. said...

And Robert Cook--precisely why was my thought childish--do you mean that evil does not exist? Or that evil is only evil if it can be understood. Your criticism lacks, shall I say, any analysis. I made an assertion which you are free to reject--but reject it as "childish," is lacking in substance.

Robert Cook said...

"Evil" is how we describe persons or behavior that we find objectionable, horrifying, seemingly without reason, a violation of our concepts of right or fair behavior, etc. It does not exist except as a subjective mental concept.

We are merely high functioning animals, and the violent behavior we evolved to survive, to defend against predators and to enable us to obtain food, is still within us. (If a tiger or lion became as high functioning as humans are, it would still behave according to long-evolved instinctual behavior, and would, despite whatever qualities of intelligent behavior it exhibited, still be dangerous and violent. As humans are.)

Very little in human behavior is truly beyond understanding, and to reject the attempt to understand behavior because, well, "Evil just is," as if it is an actual demonic spirit inhabiting the world or people is just...childish.

The behavior of those who attack America is certainly not difficult to understand at all. One may disagree with their stated motives, but refusing to understand or dismiss their acts as just the manifestation of "that evil evil Moozlim debil religion" does us no good at all...and is childish.

William said...

There is a mystifying element to this attack. I don't understand by what process a Chechen chooses the USA over Russia as his prime oppressor. This country gave him sanctuary, an education, and cute girls who didn't wear burkas. Why have a grudge against us? Moslems are killing each other at a pretty brisk rate throughout the middle east. Why are the dozens of Muslims murdered by us more martyred than the thousands of Muslims murdered by Russians and other Muslims.....OK, he's a religious fanatic, but his fanaticism is mixed with stupidity, ingratitude, ignorance and lots of other bad qualities. There is something mystifying about him. People aren't usually this stupid.

wyo sis said...

The action was taken, Joker gave his reasons, which are not mitigating at all, and now er proceed to the consequences part.

Muslim men bombed American targets, killing Americans. They cite Muslim jihad as their reason. That's enough to go on.

Leland said...

If Jakhar had gotten out of the boat and said, "Do you know who I am? You are about to find out who I am. You're going to be on national news."; then we would only see his mugshot on TV when he was discussed.

Ann Althouse said...

"Ann, people are sick of efforts to "understand" and "reach out" to these cutthroats. Thus, some understandable impatience."

And I'm sick of commenters who don't take the time to to understand the post. If you are too impatient to understand what you are commenting on, don't embarrass yourself by commenting. You're part of the problem. I am not going to write longer posts for the sake of people who are waiting to be spoon fed. If you want to consume pablum, there are many other websites. Don't mistake short for easy. You are expected to think.

William said...

I think there is something baffling about his choice of a target. I think we can all agree that Ariel Castro is evil. If, however, Castro had chosen Rosanne Barr, Maxine Waters, and Helen Thomas to lock in his basement, we would find his evil mystifying as well as repellent.

wyo sis said...

What...oh...what could his motive possibly be?
Could it be Satan?
No it's only teen age angst, nothing to see here.
But, he is cute.
Wonder how he'd look with his legs and arms blown off. Like an 8 year old at the finish line of a race cheering his father on? Like a foreign exchange student?
But, he's so damn cute!

ampersand said...

Can't wait for next month's issue of "Teen Terror Beat" Wonder who'll be on the cover?