March 19, 2013

"Why should food stamps pay for junk food?"

Charles Lane doesn't "get" the argument that "it’s not fair to restrict poor people’s grocery choices."
Of course the federal government should be able to leverage its purchasing power for socially beneficial purposes. If you take Uncle Sam’s help, you play by his rules.
And, really, when you think about it, isn't that the point? Here, let me help you.... Aha!

187 comments:

wyo sis said...

My mother taught me this very well as I was growing up. If she provided the money she decided how it was spent. I learned to earn my own if I wanted something she didn't.

Renee said...

This is why I'm against school choice.

Inga said...

They do need to update their allowable foods to be purchased with Food Stamps. Whole grains aren't that healthy though. Whose food pyramid should be followed?

Erika said...

This is why I'm against school choice.


?? Could you elaborate, Renee?

edutcher said...

You're doing them no favors buying junk food.

But you talk about rules?

The Lefties have been trashing the rules for 50 years.

Tough luck the poor have to become fat, unhealthy slugs in cause of Glorious World Socialist Revolution.

madAsHell said...

Junk food is the problem??

Trust me, they sell the EBT, or food stamps for money. They use the money to buy junk.

....and, guess what?? If you lose your EBT, then you get another.

President FoodStamps

augustus said...

Proof that our overlords think the underclass is stupid: they don't believe those who receive food stamps would not circumvent any control on their benefit use in short order. (despite repeatedly being foiled by the unintended consequences of their ukases)

Oso Negro said...

We do not have poor people in the United States. Real poor people are skinny. I greatly prefer skinny poor people. It is easier to be sure they are poor.

chickelit said...

A government which doles out healthcare has reason to control the eating habits of its dependents. Take away the "doles out healthcare" and you can take away the "allowable" food subsidies.

Dependent people's physical habits are public business now.

Inga said...

More skinny rich people than skinny poor. Cheap processed food packs on the pounds.

Methadras said...

Inga said...

More skinny rich people than skinny poor. Cheap processed food packs on the pounds.


Really? Ever see any of the emaciated coming out of a whole foods store? The anti-processed food repository of the smug and effete? Learn what processed foods are first before you comment on how they make the poor fat. The poor eat to much and that is a shocker for you I bet.

wyo sis said...

If skinny means poor rich people will be fat. I fat means poor rich people will be skinny.

Inga said...

Meth, have you heard that processed foods are full of PUFA'S and Fructose? Do you have any idea of what they do to the way you metabolize fat and sugars?

I doubt you do.

elkh1 said...

Oso Negro said...
"We do not have poor people in the United States. Real poor people are skinny."

In the United States, the real rich people are skinny.

The real rich people have money to spend on foods that don't fill them up, have the time and incentives to work off their bulges. Incentives such as to show off a slim body that looks good in the thousands dollars outfits.

Frankly, why the hell would those who use food stamps waste on junk food, waste their food stamps and waste their bodies? To look like losers?

Basta! said...

PUFAs? Isn't that the fatty over-pube area Lena Dunham was obsessing over?

DON'T TELL ME they're in FOOD now!!

Inga said...

Basta, no silly, that's the Mound of Venus.

Mark said...

It's really obvious where Charles Lane thinks he is on the food chain.

Pride. Shame. Concern. In the end it's about control.

Broomhandle said...

Anyone who's ever stood in the checkout line at a Wal-Mart has seen EBT's squandered on mounds of junk food.Working people see this and, yes, they're pissed.

SOJO said...

Rephrase: It's not fair to restrict people who work at WalMart's food choices.

Proponents might have an argument if no one on food stamps worked, but since Walmart makes up the biggest groups of food stamp recipients in many states, I would say no.

They're already working at Walmart. Exactly how much torture do you want to inflict on them? They should be being paid enough to not qualify for food stamps, but since the US majority, in its wisdom, would like to subsidize Walmart, then as working people, they should be able to eat whatever cheap crap they want that can take their minds off their crappy lives for one second.

gk1 said...

I'm guessing Lane also doesn't understand the impulse behind urine testing welfare recepients for drug use either. Why should the ants subsidize a bunch of lazy, obese losers that will tip over obamacare?

Inga said...

I say we urine test CEOs whose companies get corporate welfare.

Broomhandle said...

SOJO,
You may have missed the point. Working people are pissed at the sluggards that squander their (the working people's) taxes on Little Debbies. No one I know of, however conservative, objects to making sure everyone has enough to eat.

wyo sis said...

Well, Obama care does have a sort of built in relief valve. After people get fat living on welfare and food stamps for a few years they can be denied free medical care based on their non-contribution to society. Just pain medication until death, a sort of dark parallel continuation of the drug culture.

chickelit said...

Basta, no silly, that's the Mound of Venus.

Which these days is as barren as the adjacent cave.

wyo sis said...

Is it just me or does Inga have a sort of Hot Lips Houlihan naughty nurse vibe going on?
I've been watching M*A*S*H reuns lately.

Inga said...

I've always been naughty, my mother said so.

Inga said...

Chickelit, how would you know?

AlanKH said...

A scene I once witnessed way in the past was someone trying to buy Gatorade with food stamps. Couldn't do that (at least back then), because Gatorade isn't an agricultural product. Chips, candy and desserts are ag products, so they were okay. Don't know if that policy ever changed.

wyo sis said...

Mothers were very clear eyed about their children's naughtiness when we were children.
My mother said I was a bossy pants.

Dante said...

That's right, Ann. Government is a perversion. The more the government owns, the more it controls.

From the crap my kids have to read in their English class, the stupid HOV lanes and expensive HOV only overpasses, Stupid Trolleys in San Jose, Control of 15% of most people's salary for "Social Security," Control of Health Care, Control of states in the way they want to spend their taxpayer's money, etc., etc., etc.

When I was young, they showed us a film on how the young in China were taken from their families early in life and put into "Education Camps." We aren't far from that.

And it's all one world liberalism, anti competition, anti evolutionary Bull Shit. Special interest groups seeking power from the government by prostituting themselves for votes and campaign donations.

It's pretty scary, having this massive, uber state with all that power and control.

Hope it keeps going the way you want it to. It's too big and powerful to stop now. +Pogo

chickelit said...

Inga said...
Chickelit, how would you know?

Get your modal runnin'...
...head out on the highway....

Methadras said...

Inga said...

Meth, have you heard that processed foods are full of PUFA'S and Fructose? Do you have any idea of what they do to the way you metabolize fat and sugars?

I doubt you do.


Which foods, wino bug-eyes? OMG, there is fructose in food? WE ARE ALL DOOMED!!! Heaven help all the PUFA eaters out there too. It's the quantity of ingestion. Eat a lot of anything and you are going to have issues, not to mention the combination of either disease like diabetes and/or genetics on how your body processes and metabolizes those foods. Stop making such stupid statements. Believe me, I know more about this than you ever could.

Methadras said...

Inga said...

I say we urine test CEOs whose companies get corporate welfare.


And right on cue, the squirrel moral equivalency misdirection argument is made. Nice work Nurse Wino.

Tim said...

augustus said...

"Proof that our overlords think the underclass is stupid: they don't believe those who receive food stamps would not circumvent any control on their benefit use in short order. (despite repeatedly being foiled by the unintended consequences of their ukases)"

They think we are all stupid.

Or, enough of us, anyway.

And, they are right.

How do they know they are right?

They keep getting re-elected.

What more proof do you need?

Tim said...

"Working people see this and, yes, they're pissed."

Not pissed enough.

The assholes who make this possible keep getting re-elected.

Inga said...

Meth, you reveal your utter stupidity. You most certainly don't know a thing about nutrition, that is exceedingly evident.

Also you are a loon.

Inga said...

Or diseases of metabolism, you dumbass, Meth.

Largo said...

Watch it, Inga. My mama's half-loon.

Largo said...

Watch it, Inga. My mama's half-loon.

Inga said...

Hey Largo, is your mama a whole loon since you said it twice?;)

bagoh20 said...

We should go back to those big blocks of government cheese. It would take a lot of that cheese to buy one's party needs.

Largo said...

Reminder to self: never click the 'previous page' button on your browser when you're filling a form!

Inga, did you watch "Hoodwinked"? I say it last night. Great fun!

n.n said...

To avoid corruption, and lifelong dependence, of both government and the beneficiary, they need to move away from the welfare model, and focus on short-term, accountable rehabilitation. Better yet, the government should recuse itself from this enterprise. The nature of proximate disparity engenders disinterest and corruption. A centralized model of governance is poorly suited and ineffecient to help its intended beneficiaries.

It is dissociation of risk which causes corruption. It is dreams of material, physical, and ego instant (or immediate) gratification which motivates its progress.

Inga said...

Yes, I watched it with my grandkids, I can relate to the granny.

Inga said...

But not last night.

pigpaws said...

Give me a break on the comment that Walmart doesn't pay enough and that's why their employees are on food stamps. I worked there and prior to obamacare their pay and benefits were better than most retail.
If their employees are on food stamps, it's because those employees make crappy life choices.
You can also 'buy' $125 wedding cakes with food stamps.

Mark said...

A pound of rice v. a pound of cheetohs.

Which provides more calories, which provides more basic nutrients? Tough to say. White rice is really calorie-intensive, but a pure diet of it will leave you as dead as a pure diet of cheetohs, and maybe sooner.

But the rice will cost the government less money. So guess which one the government promotes as the moral choice?

Rusty said...

We had this conversation before.

If you want them to eat give them food not money.

rcommal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aridog said...

Broomhandle said ...

... Working people are pissed at the sluggards that squander their (the working people's) taxes on Little Debbies.

Now, that's one step too far....in my world, "Little Debbies", those heavenly oatmeal cookies, are part of a foundation food group!

And I am unanimous in this ...

Aridog said...

From der article by Charles Lane, WaPo ...

I repeat: This is a nutrition program, or so the taxpayers who fund it are told.

Dagnabit...a program that isn't what taxpayers are told it will be ... unheard of ... oh, wait, is that like a "penalty" that is really a "tax" even though written in very plain English as "penalty" are just as clearly cited as due & payable for NON-performance?

Probably the most cynical argument against banning junk food from SNAP is that it would “stigmatize” the poor by making them conspicuous at the grocery store. Since when is it humiliating to take only healthful food through a checkout line?

Can he really be that much a dilettante? No, "they" presume the recipients are either ignorant or foolish enough to think it is stigmatization. "Their" proof? They got elected.

Oh, and "junk" food is merely part of the problem in urban environments...selling usage or stamps for cash to buy dope and/or booze or 40 ouncers is another significant part. No urban crack head would satisfied otherwise.

Aridog said...

Inga said...

I say we urine test CEOs whose companies get corporate welfare.

Zero to no chance of that happening, heh heh...it would penalize the Democrats' largest contributors and employee donation bundlers.

But, say hey...let's give it a try ... Jeffy Immelt first!!

kentuckyliz said...

So, does WIC shame it's clients by forcing them to get nutritional food?

kentuckyliz said...

Poor people feeding themselves and their children crap keeps them stupid and unhealthy so it makes it easier for us smart people to succeed and become their overlords. It's part of the conspiracy.

Bob_R said...

The main insight of Gary Taube's books is not "don't eat carbs." It's the incredibly low quality of the science on which our "knowledge" of science and nutrition is based. It's no coincidence that so much oppressive government policy is based on bad science like this and macroeconomics and weak science like environmental science. The softer a science the more amenable to confirmation bias (for which there IS plenty of verifiable, reproducible scientific evidence.)

Bob_R said...

that's "diet and nutrition" not "science and nutrition." Start working coffee.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Personally, I'm still pissed at the unions for taking down Hostess.

I want my Twinkies. ( Actually, I much preferred Funny Bones. )

Robert Cook said...

"Anyone who's ever stood in the checkout line at a Wal-Mart has seen EBT's squandered on mounds of junk food.Working people see this and, yes, they're pissed."

I'm a working person and I'm not pissed. Why should I care what kind of food people buy with their food stamps? Heck, people fortunate enough to have jobs and income and who can buy their own food also buy junk food. This is the American Diet!

Robert Cook said...

"Personally, I'm still pissed at the unions for taking down Hostess."

They didn't; you're pissed at the wrong people.

It was management that trashed Hostess: they extracted all the money from the company to line their pockets before throwing the company in the dumper.

Pogo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

"It was management that trashed Hostess: they extracted all the money from the company to line their pockets before..."

Socialists are endlessly blind.

Pogo said...

The rebranded GOP should get on board with Democrats and import illegal immigrants, and give them free Obamaphones and EBT cards and Medicaid and housing and computers with paid internet access.

And increase the taxes on the racist schlubs still working because the University of Wisconsin says it's all White Privilege anyway.

Otherwise they're ugly and mean and no one will vote for them.

Oh, plus, gay marriage.

Edward Lunny said...

If food stamp recipients don't like the restrictions, they are free to not accept them. Quite frankly, when you're living off of moneys extorted from responsible, productive, taxpayers you should be grateful and gracious to them and accept any guidelines that they require.
The crime here is that thee aren't any significant responsibilities attached to public assistance. After all, this assistance is not charity given by the taxpayers, we are forced to participate in funding these giveaways.

Pogo said...

No way, Ed.

True freedom is freedom from responsibility and consequences.

You'll never get votes that way.

jim murray said...

Perhaps we should revert to the day when actual food was dispensed.

Roger J. said...

Re this discussion, I am reminded of the old saying: You take the kings shilling and you do the kings business.

LarsPorsena said...

I just want to thank Obama for an economic recovery that has a record number of people on food stamps.

AJ Lynch said...

There should be no strings attached- the govt can't make people grow up and act like adults.

Henry said...

It's a feudal state so lets go all medieval. Food stamps should go only for beer and cabbage.

But only one of those hearty iron-rich dark beers. That sells by the bucket.

wyo sis said...

There should be no strings attached.s

There are always strings attached. The government isn't trying to make people grow up. It's trying to make them dependent.

Bob R said...

Of course the government gets to call the shots because they are providing the money to the people getting the EBT cards. But WE are providing the money to the government, and WE should tell the bureaucrats to shut their pie holes and mind their own business - just for practice.

Robert Cook said...

Management Killed Hostess

Tibore said...

"If you take Uncle Sam’s help, you play by his rules."

You see, I agree with this. It's the very basis of why I consider myself a political conservative to begin with: If you want government's intervention, then you play by government's rules. And there's little stronger an argument for limited government than having to play by the rules of an overgrown bureaucracy who's internal motivations will (not may) be far different and possibly in conflict with yours as an individual.

garage mahal said...

Michelle Obama was right!

MadisonMan said...

Twinkies were bought. You'll be able to buy them again in May, I think.

Patrick said...

Management Killed Hostess

Robert, I saw a real interesting column from Megan McArdle on that whole thing. The theory was that the Baker's union knew that the Teamsters had a deal that would ruin the company, so they had no incentive to bargain. Apparently their hope was that in bankruptcy, the Teamsters deal would get shot down and they'd at least have a shot at something post bankruptcy. Couldn't find it quickly on Google.

SeanF said...

Robert, your link says,

"Remember the horrible murders in 1978 of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk? At the killer's trial, his lawyer argued for leniency on the grounds that his client subsisted on a steady diet of junk food, which had addled his brain. This claim entered the annals of American jurisprudence as the "Twinkie Defense."

If the author can't even describe the "Twinkie Defense" correctly, why should I believe anything he says about the Hostess bankruptcy?

Freder Frederson said...

So Bloomberg is a communist dictator for banning huge sugary sodas but the federal government should tell people what to eat? And also the government shouldn't tell you what kind of light bulbs you can buy.

Don't you ever recognize your vast hypocrisy?

Skyler said...

The danger is if you let the government control people on such a pretext, then they will find a way to get you on the dole too, and then they will control you too.

This is the fundamental evil of socialism. It gives the government power where it should have none.

Erika said...

Freder, think really hard about who is paying for what in your examples and see if you can see which of these things is not like the others.

Pogo said...

Mr. Cook, any article that uses the word "profiteers" without busting out in laughter is delusional.

Sorry, that post is boilerplate ideological bullshit.

Please, next time find something that blames the Hostess management "hoarders and wreckers".

Robert Cook said...

Patrick,

One will find arguments from across the political spectrum about not just the facts of the matter but about how to interpret those facts. The salient point is that the bakers union had made significant salary and benefits concessions previously, when Hostess went filed bankruptcy the first time.

Here's the relevant passage from the column I linked to:

"The true perfidy in this drama is not in the union, but inside Ripplewood's towering castle of high finance in New York City. After buying Hostess in a bankruptcy sale, these equity hucksters proceeded to feather their own nests, rather than modernize Hostess's equipment and upgrade its products, as the unions had urged. For starters, these profiteers piled an unbearable debt load of $860 million on Hostess, thus diverting its revenues into nonproductive interest payments made to rich, absentee speculators. Also, they siphoned millions of dollars out of Hostess directly into their corporate pockets by charging "consulting and management fees" that did nothing to improve the snack-makers financial health.

"But it was not until this year that their rank managerial incompetence and raw ethical depravity fully surfaced. While the Ripplewood honchos in charge of Hostess were demanding a new round of deep cuts in worker's pay, health care, and pensions, they quietly jacked up their own pay. By a lot! The CEO's paycheck, for example, rocketed from $750,000 a year to $2.5 million."


Hmmm...isn't that a bit much, asking the bakers to take another cut in pay while maxing out their own compensation?

It's obvious they were going to kill Hostess and their intent was to get the most out of it for their own profit while they could.

Patrick said...

Don't you ever recognize your vast hypocrisy?

Although I tend to agree that the Gov't shouldn't mess around with meal planning even when it is providing the money for the meal, I note there is a wide gulf between restricting the use of government funds for things that are mostly beneficial and restricting the choices of people who wish to spend their own money.

Robert Cook said...

"Mr. Cook, any article that uses the word 'profiteers' without busting out in laughter is delusional."

"Delusional" not at all, but...perhaps you have a point. A better term for the management scum who killed Hostess would have been "parasites."

Be that as it may, "profiteers" is certainly accurate.

Dave D said...

When did polyunsaturatedd fatty acids (the main fat in fish) and fructose (the ONLY sugar in fruit) become bad for you? You nanny dietary wacko's need to huddle up and get your story straight.

bagoh20 said...

Management can certainly ruin a company and has before, but so have unions many times. The question you need to ask yourself is: why are you only willing to be honest about the management mistakes and willing to have the management removed?

I think it is pretty obvious the union is most responsible for the Hostess demise. Management can make serious mistakes, but they can't take enough funds out to have that kind of impact on a large company.

The unions have ridiculous rules and demands that make their companies weak and the employees lazy and greedy. That's where the real money is lost, and who pays for it? We do, in higher prices and poor service. Look at any government service to see how it works. Is that management failure making those organizations so bad, and so expensive? They could never compete against a nonunion organization. Let McDonald's run the DMV and you would get your business done in the drive through while getting a meal at a fraction of the time and money spent now.

Robert Cook said...

SeanF, how is Hightower's description of the origin of the term "Twinkie defense" not accurate?

Jay said...

This is the wrong question.

The question is: Why do we have food stamps at all?

Peter said...

'Mark' said, "A pound of rice v. a pound of cheetohs.

Which provides more calories, which provides more basic nutrients? Tough to say. White rice is really calorie-intensive, but a pure diet of it will leave you as dead as a pure diet of cheetohs, and maybe sooner."


An ounce of cooked, white rice contains less than 40 calories.
An ounce of Cheetos contains 150 calories.

Both are far from complete nutrition, and therefore (by themselves) cannot support life.

But a 12 oz bag of Cheetos is 1,800 calories and to get that many calories from plain, boiled white rice you'd have to eat three pounds of it. Which you're just not going to do, mindlessly, while watching TV.

And, really, the rice will not only cost the government less-- it will cost you less too.

Jay said...

Robert Cook has not one utter clue what "management" in a company is or does.

Jay said...

The CEO's paycheck, for example, rocketed from $750,000 a year to $2.5 million."


Which of course is totally equivalent to paying the medical benefits of 10,000 employees along with pension payments.

Really, it is.

Who falls for such gullible bullshit?

Oh, stupid people.

That's who.

Patrick said...

The salient point is that the bakers union had made significant salary and benefits concessions previously, when Hostess went filed bankruptcy the first time.

That is the same old tired "union vs. management" paradigm that is useful only for those who can't see beyond it. The reason I brought up the article is that it looks at it not from that perspective, but another, fresher one. I thought it was interesting. The fact is that the bakers had made concessions, but the teamsters had not.

In this telling, the teamsters had an unreasonably sweet deal, one that was killing the company. And the bakers declined to take cuts in order to keep the teamsters sugared up. They were betting that whoever bought the company would still need the bakers, but not the insane distribution contracts that the teamsters had enjoyed for years.

I won't say it's right or not, but it is plausible and more interesting than anything else I've read on the subject.

Link

bagoh20 said...

"It's obvious they were going to kill Hostess and their intent was to get the most out of it for their own profit while they could."

If the investors run the company into the ground, that's their right - they own it. If the union wants a company, they can buy one. Both sides did what they had a right to do. You are not guaranteed a win every time. Owners don't try to cash out of a promising, competitive and profitable company. They can fire the management for failing at that, but not the union for ruining it. Cashing out a business is what you do when you can't fire people you should. It has happened a thousand times in the U.S., and it's why so few are unionized here today. It's bad business.

garage mahal said...

For starters, these profiteers piled an unbearable debt load of $860 million on Hostess, thus diverting its revenues into nonproductive interest payments made to rich, absentee speculators. Also, they siphoned millions of dollars out of Hostess directly into their corporate pockets by charging "consulting and management fees" that did nothing to improve the snack-makers financial health.

Damn unions!

Patrick said...

In other words it wasn't the baking costs that were out of line, it was the distribution costs and the distribution rules that fouled up the operations, thanks to the Teamsters.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Damn unions!


You have not one utter clue what "management" is or does in a company.

PS: almost two-thirds of the income from the top 1% comes from nonwage income, including capital gains, dividends and proprietor’s profits

Why don't you brag about your W-2 again, dummy?

AprilApple said...

Big daddy gubment wants to promote lazyness on the dole, but please, don't get too fat. It costs money and embarrasses us.

bagoh20 said...

"The CEO's paycheck, for example, rocketed from $750,000 a year to $2.5 million."

That's all that someone like Cook needs to hear. That's the end of the story. The facts will all fall in line after that. Of course they were already there as it was between union and management.

Cook, I'm willing to accept that management has ruined some companies, but in your opinion has a union ever done so, or are union bosses the salt of the earth?

bpm4532 said...

Shareholders can pay management what they want. At least they have a vested interest in financial performance.

If you want to look at some truly stunning compensation packages for people who are completely divorced from the reality of actual results, let's start examining some NGOs. There's massive wealth to be garnered in the world of non-profits. Lot's of great fundraising parties, too!

Henry said...

If management killed Hostess, the first lady should give them a medal.

Cook, I'm not sure how you can even read that stuff you quote: "equity hucksters" that "feather their own nests". Why not frantic fascist captains fishing in troubled waters??

Hostess had an unbearable debt load because investors loaned it money. They loaned it money to rescue it from bankruptcy. They failed.

The unions aren't necessarily the villains. Bad management is equally to blame (not least for creating a huge pension burden). But the idea that the real villains are bilked investors marks your source as nothing more than comic posturing.

Edward Lunny said...

" True freedom is freedom from responsibility and consequences."

This is the unabashed mantra of, alleged, progressives. Of course, these low intelligence voters are also those whom need to be rescued repeatedly. They are so low intelligence they don't see the consequences as they live their entire lives in crime ridden squalor.

You'll never get votes that way.

No, I won't. But it doesn't matter, because when the "shtf" these folks will be the first to succumb . There won't be anyone to rescue them and those whom have prepared won't be inclined to "share". The government may support their ignorance and stupidity, temporarily, nature, however, is a much harsher and unforgiving mistress.

" Michelle Obama was right! " Meh, critique from someone who was and is afforded opportunities unique and unavailable anywhere else in the world. Opportunities of which she availed herself, and continues to do so, yet is so ignorant and unappreciative of said opportunities and of those who provided them ; her opinions are of no value and the moniker applied to her "Moochell" is only too accurate and deserved. As well, her husband. Would that they could understand that. Unfortunately progressives tend to blind in that regard.

Inga said...

PUFAs are bad for you because, the problem is that oxidised PUFAs form small, dense LDL, which more readily gets into the walls of inflamed arteries to form plaques that does healthy LDL, which is large and fluffy. When you eat PUFAs as opposed to saturated fat, that's what you end up with. Ask for Particle Size Testing, the next time you have a Lipid Panel drawn.

MadisonMan said...

McArdle's article is interesting, thanks Patrick for the link, but she should learn the difference between internicene and internecine.

Jay said...

Was the contribution of hostess to these teamster slugs in terms of salary & benefits greater or less than $2.5 million per year?

I guess Cook can't bother with such questions.

It is like too complicated.

Marshal said...

For starters, these profiteers piled an unbearable debt load of $860 million on Hostess, thus diverting its revenues into nonproductive interest payments made to rich, absentee speculators.

Whenever you read the term "speculator" in an economic context the correct interpretation is "this is a political screed appealing to economic illiterates". It's no surprise garage and Cook find such idiocy compelling.

Substitute "Jew" for "speculator" if you want to understand where the charge comes from.

Mitchell the Bat said...

Frankly, I think it cruel that you can't use food stamps to buy victory gin.

Bruce Hayden said...

Don't you ever recognize your vast hypocrisy?

Yeh - most of us recognize that two of the three were private individuals spending their own money, and the third one was them spending government supplied monies. And, that is part of the problem we see with progressives, that they seem so happy doing just that - control how we spend our own hard earned money, but then try to protect the takers from government supervision.

My guess is that Freder is probably one of the few here who really may think that those on food stamps here should have the dignity of spending the money exactly how they want to, at least when it comes to buying food. (FF - not sure of your actual personal beliefs here, just stereotyping you as the typical liberal/progressive here).

What we really come down to is our views on government spending and taxation. Is the money being spent on food stamps our money? Or is it the governments? Most of us here likely believe that it is our money being taken from us (by force) by the government and spent to take care of those who can't, or very often, won't take care of themselves. Few begrudge those who can't work through no fault of their own. The problem is the vast number who could, but won't. Esp., yes, the single mothers who start having kids without a husband, often with multiple males, for the benefits. It doesn't help that the takers were mobilized by the Dems so effectively to win this last election by promises of even more largess at the expense of the makers, those who do work hard for their money, taken to support the takers, the leech class. The fact that so few were troubled by "ObamaPhones", where the Obama people took credit for giving free cell phones to so many of these people is a bit scary, paid for by, of course, the rest of us, with that surcharge on all of our phone bills (and - for me it was quite the surprise that my Vonage bill is almost double that quoted thanks to all these government mandated surcharges).

Henry said...

This is informative:

Management promised to turn around the company's fortunes through innovation and workplace efficiency. It tried a limited-edition return of original banana-cream Twinkies and published The Twinkies Cookbook, which included such half-baked epicurean delights as Twinkie Sushi and Pigs in a Twinkie. But ancient delivery trucks and plant equipment didn't get replaced. The company's pricing often didn't keep pace with that of competitors. And Hostess still had ludicrous work rules: The Teamsters had separate drivers for deliveries of such goodies as Yankee Doodles and Nature's Pride Nutty Oat. (Of course this jobs-preserving work rule was agreed to by Hostess in the last labor negotiation.)

But why should anyone buy Twinkies? What is it about a crappily run company that makes crappy products that it should be saved?

Inga said...

Want to know what a PUFA is and why isnt better than saturated fat? What about fish?

garage mahal said...

Why don't you brag about your W-2 again, dummy?

It only hurts if you let it, Jaytard.

Patrick said...

she should learn the difference between internicene and internecine.

That's what you get for going to a fancy pants U of Chicago instead of a good ol' land grant school like UW.

Inga said...

Also PUFAs in refined processed food is rancid, it's old it's been sitting on th shelves for months and months, then it oxidizes in your blood stream, producing free radicals. Look it up.

Edward Lunny said...

" Don't you ever recognize your vast hypocrisy? " What hypocrisy ? There isn't any. If I want to spend my money on twinkies, or Tastykakes my preference, or on incandescent light bulbs that's my business and my choice.
If you're living off of my dollar, extorted from me, then I get to tell you how that dollar must be spent. If you find that offensive or unacceptable, try something new and exciting...... pay your own way.
This is the greatest danger from obamacare. When the government provides your healthcare, everything becomes a healthcare issue , everything. Nanny Bloomberg is just the most obvious first indication of where the "progressives" want their socialist proclivities to go.

Inga said...

Not so sweet info about sugar and Fructose

Robert Cook said...

"Cook, I'm willing to accept that management has ruined some companies, but in your opinion has a union ever done so, or are union bosses the salt of the earth?"

I would certainly not say unions are problem-free or paragons of human virtue. As with any organization of human beings, they can become tools for the ambitious to aggrandize their own power and wealth, or can be hurt by corruption, poor management and bad decisions.

However, unions do provide workers some degree of bargaining power when determining compensation and working conditions, and so, with their flaws, on balance they have been and are positive for working people.

I don't know that a union has never caused the failure of a company, but assuming it has happened, it has been the exception, the rare case, and not the rule.

Patrick said...

Not sure what your link says, Inga, but the worst thing about fructose is that it is subsidized by the geniuses in DC. Stupid.

Bruce Hayden said...

That said, I am still a bit ambivalent about this whole thing, maybe because it has been going on, at some level, for about as long as I can remember. Remember 40 years ago being scandalized that people would show up in fancy new cars to buy expensive food, while those of us earning the money to pay for that would drive up in old beater vehicles. Nothing much has changed, except that the "poor", regardless of why they are poor, now get other freebies from the rest of us too - cell phones, apartments, utilities, health care, etc.

I am though a bit ambivalent about this whole debate. On the one hand, sure, since they are taking government handouts, paid for by those of us working for a living, then they should not be surprised or offended when there are strings attached, and may even need some nudging to not waste it all. But, buying fattening food is typically much cheaper than buying good food, and so maybe we can keep the cost of supporting them down by letting them eat whatever they want, and obesity may be a good way of quickly identifying the makers from the takers. Tatoos on the latter might be better, but there are some civil liberties issues there that not even I am will to take on.

I do think that the next step probably should be photographs on EBT cards. Or, at least a positive requirement that names of the cards be matched to photos somehow. There is rampant fraud going on right now with the food stamp program, with a lot of people trading their benefits for alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, and making this harder might make the program more patitable for the rest of us. And, even if not, the embarassment of having to show your ID every time you bought food using it it might somewhat reduce the number on foodstamps.

Still, I am torn between the idea that allowing them to pick cheap foods might reduce the cost of the program and the idea that much of what they want to buy is bad for them, and they shouldn't be surprised when the government has strings attached to our largess.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Inga said...

...form small, dense LDL...

Dense LDL? Isn't that a contradiction?

Robert Cook said...

"On the one hand, sure, since they are taking government handouts, paid for by those of us working for a living...."

Do you not assume many, or perhaps even most of them once worked themselves and are thus just getting back some of what they have already paid in, and that many may one day work again and resume paying taxes that will go toward others?

We all pay in when we are working and able and help is available to all of us when needed.

This seems entirely fair and reasonable and humane.

Inga said...

Heart surgeon speaks out on what really causes heart disease, hint, PUFAs, free radicals causing artery inflammation, eating processed refined foods

Bruce Hayden said...

However, unions do provide workers some degree of bargaining power when determining compensation and working conditions, and so, with their flaws, on balance they have been and are positive for working people.

I don't know that a union has never caused the failure of a company, but assuming it has happened, it has been the exception, the rare case, and not the rule.


Not sure where you are coming from here. But, I think a lot of us can point to a number of companies driven into the ground by their unions, starting with GM and Chrysler, but also including a lot of our old steel companies, and including now Hostess. And, let us not forget our government employee unions, many of which seem bound and determined to drive their employers into bankruptcy as quickly as they can through their union mandated pension and benefit requirements.

In the 21st Century, your defense of unions is sounding less and less credible. They are a reminent of the industrial environment of the late 19th and early 20th Century, when they did serve a good and noble service. But, we have long moved away from the types of businesses where they provided more benefit to society than cost.

rhhardin said...

I favor allowing food stamps to purchase lottery tickets.

That returns the money to the taxpayers.

SeanF said...

Robert Cook: SeanF, how is Hightower's description of the origin of the term "Twinkie defense" not accurate?

The lawyers were going for a "diminished mental capacity" judgment, and they presented his high junk food diet as evidence of his diminished mental capacity.

In other words, they argued that diminished mental capacity causes poor dietary choices.

They did not argue, as your article suggests, that poor dietary choices cause diminished mental capacity.

Your article has reversed cause and effect.

Inga said...

Small dense LDL and Particle Size Testing when having a Lipid Panel drawn.

garage mahal said...

Crush public sector unions and the private sector will take off like a rocket ship.

Quick! Crack down on the Solidarity Singers!

SeanF said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bruce Hayden said...

Do you not assume many, or perhaps even most of them once worked themselves and are thus just getting back some of what they have already paid in, and that many may one day work again and resume paying taxes that will go toward others?

Sure, some. But there is a entire dependency class out there that you are seemingly trying to ignore. Remember the makers and the takers in the last election? We have a lot of people who manufactured disabilities to get early SS during the extended Obama Recession. They won't work again. And, then there are all the single mothers who start having kids young out of wedlock to "get their own check".

As I pointed out in my previous post, no one begrudges those who, through no fault of their own, are in a dependency situation. Who have worked hard (and even some who haven't because they couldn't), and now find themselves in need. But what is begrudged by those paying for the largess are the many millions who make little if any effort to support themselves, the dependency class. And, compounding this, so many of these takers were recruited by Obama and the Dems this last election to further their ability to give away even more free stuff to those with no interest or intention of working.

SeanF said...

BTW, Erika - I, too, was initially confused by Renee's conclusion about school choice.

But I believe what she fears is that if government money goes to private schools via vouchers, then the government will feel justified in exerting more control over private schools.

Inga said...

Free radicals and why you want to avoid them as much as a human can. Hint, rancid PUFAs.

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
"Cook, I'm willing to accept that management has ruined some companies, but in your opinion has a union ever done so, or are union bosses the salt of the earth?"

I would certainly not say unions are problem-free or paragons of human virtue. As with any organization of human beings, they can become tools for the ambitious to aggrandize their own power and wealth, or can be hurt by corruption, poor management and bad decisions.

However, unions do provide workers some degree of bargaining power when determining compensation and working conditions, and so, with their flaws, on balance they have been and are positive for working people.

I don't know that a union has never caused the failure of a company, but assuming it has happened, it has been the exception, the rare case, and not the rule.

First of all GM and Chrysler come to mind.
Unions are corporations. Unions do what's best for the union executives, not the rank and file.
Unions are also about people control. No one will look out for your benefit better than you can.

Rusty said...

Broomhandle said ...

... Working people are pissed at the sluggards that squander their (the working people's) taxes on Little Debbies.

Why? Once you give something to someone it's theirs to do with what they want.
If you don't want them to make bad choices don't give them the means to make bad choices.

Aridog said...

Do I have to come all up in here and stamp my feet? Pay attention to Inga...she's giving y'all good advice!! PAY ATTENTION!!

Gotta run now for a hair cut. :-))



bagoh20 said...

"I don't know that a union has never caused the failure of a company, but assuming it has happened, it has been the exception, the rare case, and not the rule."

Then I can only assume you know nothing about the subject, and should get yourself informed. It's impossible to both be informed on the subject and have your opinion, unless the truth just doesn't affect your opinion. It's clear that when "informing" yourself, you systematically exclude inconvenient truth until you find what you are looking for.

Inga said...

No, I'm just kidding, keep eating the Twinkies, Meth.

Aridog said...

Rusty ... you gonna make me give up the "Little Debbie Defense" again? You DO know Little Debbie's are an essential food group? Little Debbies uber alles!!

chickelit said...

Inga said...
Free radicals and why you want to avoid them as much as a human can. Hint, rancid PUFAs.

Like "good witches" and "bad witches" there are different types of radicals. Some diradicals like O2 are as unavoidable as death. Persistent radicals are thought to be the worst, but others, like vitamin B12, are quite useful. For example, they mediate the conversion of RNA monomers into DNA monomers and host of metabolic processes.

bagoh20 said...

Rusty, I didn't give it to them - it was taken by threat of incarceration.

I'm inclined to bitch about it even if they are buying good stuff. They should be trying to give me something back for it, or be trying to get off assistance. Otherwise it's simple theft. I will bitch about being robbed, by fat drug addicted welfare breeders, and anyone who doesn't is a little sick. Why would anyone want to encourage that? It's irresponsible and cruel to let it continue. These are human beings being ruined by the millions. How can that be OK?

bagoh20 said...

What really sucks is avoiding food that you enjoy for decades and then dying anyway. What a rip off. Does anyone have a fix for that? I didn't think so.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Ah, Bitchtits The Uneducated once again coming in to make up shit about how wealthy and successful he is.

So successful that his marriage failed and he never made it past high school!

Really Jay, you should feel such envy at the wonderful life that tubby has made up for himself on the internet. I wonder if he believes it in his fat head as well? Leftists are good at constructing delusional realities.

Kind of sad that even in his internet fantasies he broadcasts that he is overweight, that his wife left him, and that he was too stupid to go to college.

How bad the actual reality must be, if that his his fantasy.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

But what is the quality of your life while living? Isn't it better to be healthy and fit and able to do all the great stuff humans can do? Or is it better to sit on the couch eating Cheetos, waiting for death?

If kids and adults weren't getting Metabolic Stndrome and the "goodies" that comes with it, in record numbers, then I'd say, have at it eat junk till ya pop!

garage mahal said...

LOL

Inga said...

*Syndrome*

President-Mom-Jeans said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Methadras said...

Inga said...

Meth, you reveal your utter stupidity. You most certainly don't know a thing about nutrition, that is exceedingly evident.

Also you are a loon.


Really? How? The only thing exceedingly evident, wino, is that your attempt at throwing around the word Fructose (sugar) and the acronym for Polyunsaturated fatty acids as a means to create some fake hysteria about them only illuminates the utter vacuousness that is you. Stick to the fermented grape juice, that's what you know best. Talking to you is like talking to a wall of foam, white, dense, and crumbly.

bagoh20 said...

"But what is the quality of your life while living?"

Sure, but spending your days stressing about what you eat, rather than enjoying food is not a quality life. I feel likewise about working out. I would bet that on one's deathbed you would not wish you had spent more time working out, and would regret avoiding that delicious food year after year.

Junk food and working out are both in my opinion bad choices. You should eat good delicious food, and exercise by doing fun and rewarding activities. So pretty much steak and sex 24/7.

Inga said...

Meth head, stick to the Twinkies, eat lots and lots of 'em.

Why does Meth and PMJ sound so similar, hmmmmm?

garage mahal said...

Just remember, pretend internet lawyer, you follow me around. And never the other way around.

Methadras said...

Dave D said...

When did polyunsaturatedd fatty acids (the main fat in fish) and fructose (the ONLY sugar in fruit) become bad for you? You nanny dietary wacko's need to huddle up and get your story straight.


Only when Nurse nutritionist extraordinaire bug-eyed wino says they are bad for you because her mere utterance that it's bad makes it so. Fear the sugar, it's EEEE-VIL. Look out for thatfatty acid, it's gonna getcha!!! ROFL!!!

Inga said...

Baggy, now you're talking, sex and steak are quite healthy. I indulge in both.

I don't stress over food, I am informed and eat what is healthy and delicious.

traditionalguy said...

Food menus should be under a US Dept of Meddling Assholes with total authority to raid homes using SWAT teams if any paper work is not filled timely or the re-cycling industrial complex is messed with.

That's what the DC guys seriously believe in... i.e., their own prosperity.

bagoh20 said...

I bet a bowl of polyunsaturated fat and fructose would be delicious. Fry it and put it on a toasted bagel with bacon, and it's got to be fantastic.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Bitchtits the Uneducated said...
"Just remember, pretend internet lawyer, you follow me around. And never the other way around."


So since everything I said is true, and you are unable to refute any of those fact about your pathetic life, you retort with the inane statement above.

Well played fatty, if you had went to college, I'm sure you would have been captain of the debate team. Stunning rebuttle.

The truly needy should be given physical food items, and should not get any say in what those items are outside of food allergies or perhaps relgious dietary restrictions. The poor should not all be as fat as Garage Mahal in this country, on the taxpayers dime.


Methadras said...

Robert Cook said...

"Mr. Cook, any article that uses the word 'profiteers' without busting out in laughter is delusional."

"Delusional" not at all, but...perhaps you have a point. A better term for the management scum who killed Hostess would have been "parasites."

Be that as it may, "profiteers" is certainly accurate.


All the while you completely ignore the bakers union failing to accept the deal presented to them while all the other unions for hostess accepted it. Don't pile this shit on the feet of the executives. Would this discussion be happening now if that was so? Dare I say, that decades of junk food science (see what I did there?) was a massive contributor to the downfall of Hostess too, but hey, why would you ever not think of that since you dusted off Das Kapital lexicon.

Inga said...

I eat plenty of bacon Baggy. Eggs too!

Meth, I got a glass of corn syrup for ya.

Seeing Red said...

We use the corn syrup because the sugar lobby, while small, is still somewhat powerful.

Methadras said...

Inga said...

Meth head, stick to the Twinkies, eat lots and lots of 'em.

Why does Meth and PMJ sound so similar, hmmmmm?


Considering that I haven't had a twinkie since I was a kid, I don't think that's an issue, wino. But please, speculate more. You do that really well, as well as regurgitating wiki's on nutrition. Yeah, that really gives you street cred. I'm sure all the poor are heeding your stylistic warnings of the dangers of government sanction money for them to buy the food you don't want them to because after all, who wants the unhealthy poor when the golden opportunity exists to have a healthy poor instead? Please, continue to laugh at your own self created ironies. I always enjoy watching you go on one of your many, "Hey guys look at me thread crap pointless and useless shit to you in another thread while I vacillate ad nauseum" kicks.

You always side on quantity over quality, wino. And it shows. Drink up.

Methadras said...

Inga said...

I eat plenty of bacon Baggy. Eggs too!

Meth, I got a glass of corn syrup for ya.


Wow, you have a glass of sugar that is derived from corn for me? Fucking weirdo.

garage mahal said...

So since everything I said is true, and you are unable to refute any of those fact about your pathetic life, you retort with the inane statement above.

It isn't true, that's why you're a pretend lawyer and not a real one.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

It isn't true fatty? What pray tell?

That you are divorced? You have said that on this site.

That you are overweight? Do we really need to rehash your admitting that you are 220 and Althouse mocking you for it?

That you didn't go to college? Again, another thing you have admitted on this site.

You not liking how your sad pathetic life turned out does not mean I have not passed the bar, tubby.

Inga said...

My, my, PMJ/Meth must be getting hot fingers. There is some real pathology here.

Jay said...

Really Jay, you should feel such envy at the wonderful life that tubby has made up for himself on the internet. I wonder if he believes it in his fat head as well?

I know!

I kind of pity him because he actually believes his salary makes him wealthy.

Of course he's probably a state worker anyway...

Chip S. said...

A question for Frederson, or anyone else:

You're entering a sandwich shop and are approached by a guy asking you for money, saying that he can't afford food.

Do you give him enough money to buy a sandwich, or do you buy an extra sandwich and give it to him?

If you care whether he uses the money to buy food or to buy something else, the logic is the same as caring whether he buys nutritious food or junk food.

William said...

The children of the very poor learn one lesson and learn it endlessly: Get your gratification now or not at all...Nancy Reagan was relentlessly mocked for her "just say no" program. If it's that impossible to get teenagers to say no to sex and drugs, then lots of luck with ten year olds and twinkies.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Divorced!

garage mahal said...
Is it your position that he should just walk away and not pay attention to this? While it was happening? Seriously

Of course not. I've heard about ten different versions of events on Benghazi though, and I'm not sure what your version is.

He was there, he wasn't there, he was there but was just watching, he was there and watching and decided to do nothing, he was there watching and decided to do nothing because he loves his Muslim brothers, he was there but insufficiently emotionally attached, he was there but wasn't really there because he was too tired, he wasn't there period because he went off to Las Vegas fundraising, etc etc etc

Starting to sound like my ex wife!
2/7/13, 7:16 PM

Fat!

Ann Althouse said...
"Why any clear thinking person pays attention to this detestable blob is a mystery."

You are expressing bigotry toward the fat.

And yet I happen to know as a fact that you yourself are fat!

Why the self-loathing, garage?

8/25/12 10:23 AM

garage mahal said...
And yet I happen to know as a fact that you yourself are fat!

Why the self-loathing, garage?

I'm 5'11" 220lbs, is that "fat" fat? No where near as fat as Limbaugh in any case.

The question is why you think a whacked out conspiracy theorist like Limbaugh is worthwhile for your readers. Wait, nevermind.
8/25/12, 10:37 AM

Uneducated!

Pretty self explanatory from your writing, but if you want to claim that you went to college now, I would be happy to go back and pull your admitting that high school was as far as you made it educationally too.


William said...

I have never seen an overweight person drink anything but diet soda. Whatever the root causes of obesity, I don't think it's large sodas.

William said...

Fat people rarely live long enough to suffer senile dementia. One year of nursing home care is more expensive than a lifetime of twinkies. In the end, junk food may prove to be the most humane way of rationing our lives on earth.

garage mahal said...

I kind of pity him because he actually believes his salary makes him wealthy.

The topic was salary, and I made an educated guess I make more than you and the fake internet lawyer.

And if you think he/she is a real lawyer, you have to wonder why they would spend hours chasing me around/scouring through old comment threads when they should be representing their clients.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Another amazing rebuttle!

It's called google you fat retard, no "scouring" involved. A fairly swift process for those with some latent intelligence and the proper education.

So you said "It's isn't true."

Are you denying that you are divorced?

Are you denying that you claimed that you weight 220 lbs?

Are you now claiming that you went to college?

Tell me Bitchtits, which statement is not true?

garage mahal said...

It's called google you fat retard, no "scouring" involved.

So tell us what "case" you're working on right now.

Besides googling "garage mahal" 100 times per day.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Unlike mouthy cunts like Inga, I don't give out personally identifiable information on the internet.

And if you had any education at all, you would know that divulging information like that would be a gross violation of attorney-client privilege.

I see that since you know that I am right, that you are a fat loser with a failed marriage who never went to college, and that you have admitted such on this very blog, you are attempting to change the subject. No chance, lardass.

Again, you said "It isn't true."

I ask you which of these three things is not true.

1. That you are divorced.
2. That you weigh/weighed 220 lbs.
3. That you did not go to college.

The truth hurts, doesn't it fatty?

garage mahal said...

And if you had any education at all, you would know that divulging information like that would be a gross violation of attorney-client privilege.

Sure. Of course. But, right now, somebody is paying your firm to chase me around comment threads to tell me how fat I am?

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Of course not just to tell you that you are fat bitchtits, but also to tell you that you are a failure as a husband and in education. Also for the benefit of those on the Althouse blog who may not know these important facts.

And the billable hour is so 10 years ago, FYI.

Your repeated lack of denial will be put into evidence as an admission that your assertion that "It isn't true" was just more of your bullshit. Which readers here should take into account when you are lying and spouting bullshit on other topics. Consider this some pro bono service to the readership of this blog. Civic-minded individual that I am.

No further questions, the witness may waddle down.

Chip Ahoy said...

Poor people do not understand food.

at.

all.

It is utterly shocking. I know this as fact because I have been among them and observed carefully and spoken directly.

This whole conversation is mostly about them and not about me. I fell separate from this conversation somehow. This public charity is on top of my own charity. As yours is too. So the discussion would be my tiny portion of public on top of how I manage charity otherwise.

The problem I have is public charity parlayed to Party advantage, and that is the motive I sense whenever Democrats discuss public charity.

If you were a reasonable person, which everyone here is, then you would want to support poor people buying foodstuffs to help them immediately. Because I'm telling you, being hungry hurts and I know that feeling very well too. I feel it often, and I'll bet you $10.00 that you don't feel it often, and I'll bet you $10,000 you don't feel it as often as I do, becasue I'm a bit of a freak. I'm the scrawniest man on Earth who's still hot. I meant to say still alive.

*sticks out tongue*

But if you were to then say, "go forth and buy a wholesome potato (which is a carbohydrate starch) and be sure to accompany that with a fat to slow the processing of the starch into sugars (which are either burned immediately or readily stored, and not so much passed, that is evacuated, that is pooped) and be certain to have a wholesome complete protein with that.

They would not know what to do with a real potato. Honestly. Or consider it too much work, or unimaginative, or not tasty, or not enough fun to eat. Or consider it something that goes into something else like stew. Instead, they would choose for processed frozen potato for fries and hashed browns, much more expensive but also immediately satisfying, potato flakes for mashed potato because that's what they've seen, processed potato chips instead of making their own from a single potato because the thought hasn't occurred that they could do it as well.

I take as fact, given a choice of free food arrayed right before them, 100% of poor people on assistance will choose glazed fluffy cinnamon rolls over artisan sourdough bread 100% of the time so that it will sit there forlornly unchosen when offered in piles for free.

And if you set up full tables of straight up junk food that's past its date or approaching it and so offered for free, and another table of straight up hard core basic groceries, they will fill their carts with junk food and tv dinners exclusively and pass on things like cheese they don't recognize, vegetables that need to be washed, cut and cooked.

And this is where M. Obama might be able to reach some people that would never listen to guy like me.

That other day at Arby's I knew I was making a poor food choice, I went there on porpoise to try out the new Ruben that's advertised, to see for myself what the dealio is, and I was starving too, I cannot overemphasize that, but the bum who popped up does not know he's bumming at a bad food choice location, a much better sandwich and value is available right around the corner. (maybe a good bumming location but a poor food location) But honestly, human to human, who am I to say in that starving situation, take this handout but spend it elsewhere.

This whole city is set up to help them, but I see that they cannot abide by the rules that must be and that's why they slipped through the cracks. And I already know, that whatever I give them directly will be spent poorly. It is axiomatic, so here, go stave your hunger, if you're hungry as me, buy your cigarettes, and your little bottle of booze too.

garage mahal said...

A "client" out there somewhere is paying Moms Jeans to call me fat on the internet.

That would shame any legitimate lawyer, but of course......

Robert Cook said...

"First of all GM and Chrysler come to mind."

GM and Chrysler's problems were the fault of poor GM and Chrysler management.

"Unions are corporations. Unions do what's best for the union executives, not the rank and file.
Unions are also about people control. No one will look out for your benefit better than you can."


And a worker without union representation has only pitiable or worse capability to bargain equally--or at all--with his employers for compensation and working conditions.

Just as a colonial citizen in the late 1700s had zero chance of convincing the King to see it his way, and thus the colonists united to sway the King with their collective powers of persuasion.

Robert Cook said...

"In the 21st Century, your defense of unions is sounding less and less credible."

Actually, it is more apparent now than it has been since the 1930s the need for robust union representation for workers...around the world.

That's right...I'm down with the IWW!
Wobbly chicks click with me!

Chip S. said...

...it is more apparent now than it has been since the 1930s the need for robust union representation for workers...around the world.

Yeah. It's perfectly clear that the interests of Indian programmers and Mexican auto workers are exactly aligned with those of their US counterparts.

Marshal said...

Robert Cook said...
"First of all GM and Chrysler come to mind."

GM and Chrysler's problems were the fault of poor GM and Chrysler management.


It's true management wasn't able to save these companies - GM will have another bailout or bankrupcy before the decade is out. But the obstacles they must overcome are protected by unions. Cook apparently believes the existence of management absolves everyone else of blame. What a childish response.

Jack Sparks said...

I think my position on Inga is well documented, but I will say this: her nutritional advice is spot-on.

Aridog said...

Robert Cook said...

GM and Chrysler's problems were the fault of poor GM and Chrysler management.

Cook, how DO you manage to self-define confirmation bias so completely?

You utter a half truth and actually avoid the whole truth. Yes, GM and Chrysler management went to shit the minute they made short sighted bean counters CEO's...most egregiously at Chrysler.

The other half of the story is that the UAW did NOT represent its workers collectively [for their collective benefit], nor did it enforce the negotiated contracts for their own work rules. The most egregious violation was attendance..e.g., the lack thereof.

The result was shut down, or 80% reduction, of plant after plant that had to keep an extra 25% plus personnel hired just to assure a maybe 95% productive attendance.

The whole story is both the UAW and management wrecked the U S auto industry. In essence they colluded...and worse, ignored their competition jointly. Don't believe me...do some research on GM's Fisher Body Division, just about everywhere.

When you set out to analyze business performance, humbly suggest you pick an industry you at least know something about...or are not in denial about, or both.

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
"First of all GM and Chrysler come to mind."

GM and Chrysler's problems were the fault of poor GM and Chrysler management.

Giving into unions.
Thank you.

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
"In the 21st Century, your defense of unions is sounding less and less credible."

Actually, it is more apparent now than it has been since the 1930s the need for robust union representation for workers...around the world.

That's right...I'm down with the IWW!
Wobbly chicks click with me!

Until a better educated work force occurred because of automation. No need to unionize robots, or computer controlled machinery.

Rusty said...

Aridog said...
Rusty ... you gonna make me give up the "Little Debbie Defense" again? You DO know Little Debbie's are an essential food group? Little Debbies uber alles!!

It was the fried pies' Airdog. Those damn tasty Hostess lemon fruit pies. They're like heroin. Crack even.
Damn you Hostess!

Aridog said...

Aridog said...

Do I have to come all up in here and stamp my feet? Pay attention to Inga...she's giving y'all good advice!! PAY ATTENTION!!

But I repeat myself :)

Now I'm off to get some Little Debbie's oatmeal dreams. And a couple McD Double Cheeseburgers.

I owe to my self. It's almost as good as the Wagu Beef and fried Tofu in peanut butter sauce I had at Chen-Chow's in B'ham here (French/Asian Fusion stuff) last Friday. Uhm, uhm gooood.

EMD said...

But what is the quality of your life while living? Isn't it better to be healthy and fit and able to do all the great stuff humans can do? Or is it better to sit on the couch eating Cheetos, waiting for death?

These things are not mutually exclusive, you know.

rcommal said...

re: Chip Ahoy

Thanks, specifically, and also in general. Wish I could do more to thank you than just say so.