December 11, 2012

Madison loses $4.9 million in state aid to schools as Madison kids opt to attend schools in other districts.

The state has an open enrollment policy, so you don't have to go to school in the district where you reside. You'd think students from outside of Madison would choose to enroll here. (Good lord! What property taxes we pay here! I just wrote a check for nearly $15,000.) Why is Madison a school district to flee — as more than 1,041 students have?
... Madison lost the equivalent of 3.8 percent of its student population to other public schools, not counting those who transferred into the district....

According to the district report, those leaving Madison are disproportionately white and largely come from attendance areas that border other suburban school districts. About 70 percent of students leaving are white; about 45 percent of the district population is white....

For years the district blocked many student transfer requests to preserve racial balance at schools. The School Board ended the practice in February 2008 in response to a federal court ruling. Transfers out have steadily increased since then.

A 2009 survey of families opting to leave the district found that more than 60 percent mentioned "environmental issues" related to safety, drugs, alcohol and bullying in the schools....
In Madison. Can you figure that out?

ADDED: White flight, Madison style.

91 comments:

Patrick said...

My public school district pays in excess of $17,000 per student each year. Still they "needed" an additional levy on property taxes. I still maintain that they could double the amount they spend, and still have the same problems.

We also have a strong teachers' union, and city, county and state government dominated by Democrats, in addition to a school board that is 100% Democrat. about ten years ago, one of seven school board members was a Republican. Another as running for school board, and the local newspaper refused to endorse him, because "there was already a Republican school board member."

Carol said...

Huh. The state fair had some pretty serious flash mob action last year didn't it? Probably some of the same high school *diversity* the white kids don't want to be around.

When the proportion hits critical mass, I suspect the behavior changes and aggression ramps up.

caplight45 said...

Yes, dear liberal progressive Madison. We love our urban ( Democrat dog whistle for "Black") students if we don't have to be too close to them.

David said...

The school system lacks the will to enforce rules that would prevent the disruptive and predatory from undermining the education of the dedicated.

Sounds to me like a few decades of supervision by the Justice Department might be in order. Madison liberals think that's perfectly ok for our local schools here in South Carolina.

Surfed said...

Whoa... I live in one of the most beautiful areas of Florida (think Laguna Bch) and my taxes on a big two story brick in a GREAT urban neighborhood is $1200 and for a cute art deco brick bungalo down the street another $600. $15K?! Merde... But then my Wisconsin gGF was cutting Lake Geneva property tax checks in the same approximate numbers. She freaked when she found out how little I pay.

Drago said...

Individuals pursuing their own vested interests as they see fit.

Look for the left to make another play to put a stop to this!!

Gee, it's almost like people keep voting with their feet to leave these lefty paradises.

What's Detroits population again?

Compared to 20 years ago?

I wonder what happened?

Must be Bush's fault.

Or Reagans.

Or Romney's.

Or those darn Right To Work guys.

Or Rush's.

Or the Koch's.

The Farmer said...

In Madison. Can you figure that out?

Of course I can. And I'm smart enough to know that if any black kid is acting like a lunatic in school, it's because I'm a racist. And if I don't want my kids around it, why that's just more evidence of my racism.

Upper class white liberals fostering the growth of ghettoes south of the Beltline, far away from their own neighborhoods? That's called inclusiveness.

Synova said...

What are the school sizes?

Are parents taking their children from larger schools to enroll in smaller ones? A graduating class of 200 instead of 800?

Expat(ish) said...

Union thugs in schools?

-XC

deborah said...

"The racial makeup of the city was 78.9% White, 7.3% African American, 0.4% Native American, 7.4% Asian, 2.9% from other races, and 3.1% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 6.8% of the population."
-wiki
2010 census

David said...

Harvard School of Public Health publishes "diversity data" on American communities.

There is a wealth of info on Madison, all showing that blacks and hispanics are way behind whites in every measure of education, health, economic security, etc. http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/Data/Profiles/Show.aspx?loc=868

To me the most striking was the one on business ownership:

American Indian or Alaska Native 0.6%
Asian 1.6%
Hispanic 1.1%
Definition: Share of business firms by race/ethnicity of firm owners


It's somewhat old information, from 2002, but is apparently last available.

Whites control nearly all business. Blacks are so poorly represented in this area that they are not even measured.

It's the golden rule: Them that has the gold makes the rules. Even in Madison.

Pogo said...

The Detroitization of Madison.

Barbarian thugs took over Madison's schools.

Minority malbehavior is never corrected because it is considered racist to do so, and the kids know it.

The smart set has voted with their feet. Expect Madison's population to fall, crime to rise, businesses to leave.

"Madison crime statistics report an overall upward trend in crime based on data from 12 years with violent crime increasing and property crime increasing. Based on this trend, the crime rate in Madison for 2012 is expected to be higher than in 2010.

The city violent crime rate for Madison in 2010 was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 2.97% and the city property crime rate in Madison was higher than the national property crime rate average by 14.68%.

In 2010 the city violent crime rate in Madison was higher than the violent crime rate in Wisconsin by 57.5% and the city property crime rate in Madison was higher than the property crime rate in Wisconsin by 34.53%.
"


n.n said...

I wonder if Obama will intervene and admonish people for acting stupidly. He really has a poor record for exhibiting good or, at least, impartial judgment.

Your local paper seems obsessed with people's skin color. Their prejudice sabotages their ability to distinguish between cause and effect. With their bias, they are unlikely to offer any value to the public they serve. Certainly not to their exploited... preferred class.

In any case, it is disingenuous to tie integrity to compensation. It is myopic to treat symptoms while ignoring causes. The problems needs to be addressed at home and in the popular culture. The reactive enterprises of yesterday cannot be sustained without manufacturing and perpetuating prejudice.

Sorun said...

"About 70 percent of students leaving are white"

Who's the other 30%? I'd bet it's mostly Asians, and wouldn't be surprised if they're leaving in a much greater proportion than whites.

wildswan said...

What are Madison Schools like?

"A new student test in Madison schools that could help gauge the effectiveness of the school district's achievement gap plan suggests an average student's knowledge grew at or slightly below the rate of their national peers in math and reading and ended the year about a half-grade level behind.

The Measures of Academic Progress, or MAP test, results also provide a stark illustration of the district's achievement gap — the average white seventh-grader tested beyond the national average 10th-grader in reading, while the average black seventh-grader tested about the same as a national fourth-grader.

Managing a classroom with a variety of attainment levels is "one of the biggest challenges of public education right now" but not one the public necessarily understands, said Peggy Coyne, a reading teacher at Black Hawk Middle School.
August 12, 2012? Wisconsin State Journal

The teachers really try too so when hey can't make it work then students leave. Naturally. And I doubt if it is all white flight. In Milwaukee there are thousands of African-Americans in suburban schools.



David said...

Black students are less than 10% of Madison public school students, according to Harvard's "diversity data."

In my South Carolina town, blacks are about 40% of students.

The white people in my South Carolina town are not fleeing. They have few choices. The black people have even less choices. Blacks and whites go to school together and get along. Because we are such racists.

Craig Howard said...

The racial makeup of the city was 78.9% White, 7.3% African American

That's fine and dandy. Thanks for looking it up! Now, what's the racial makeup of the children who attend Madison's public schools? I mean, that's what we're talking about here.

The Drill SGT said...

So let's do the math.

4 million, 1000 students, $4k per student in state aid.

now the Total cost per year is likely $15k, so the school district and you tax payers save $11 million on the deal and they cut Ann's bill by xxx j/k

the losers? madison teachers unions that likely lose 100 slots at $1k per year in dues, so maybe $100k :)

Renee said...

Can we break it down by how many have fathers living in the homes?

Or how many who qualify for free/reduced lunch?

Pogo said...

"Superintendent Jane Belmore said the district is taking the open enrollment issue seriously and will consider another parent survey, which it last conducted in 2009, in addition to improving its website and other community outreach".

Oh boy! A survey!
That's action.

And 'improving the website'!
Enrollment will triple!

Community outreach???
Be still my lefty heart!
If they had said they would embrace diversity, I woulda fainted.

The Drill SGT said...

whoops $4.9 million in aid, so Ann's taxes dont fall mas much :)

Balfegor said...

You'd think students from outside of Madison would chose to enroll here. (Good lord! What property taxes we pay here! I just wrote a check for nearly $15,000.)

Is there any evidence that funding and school quality bear any significant relation to each other? DC spends gobs of money per student to no effect. Kansas City is the poster child for the utter pointlessness of increasing per student spending, even to astronomical levels. Some problems can't be solved just by throwing money at them. Education is one of them.

Freeman Hunt said...

I would guess the schools aren't great, or at least the school culture isn't great (Probably the kids grow up too fast. That's common in college towns.), and people who can afford and have the job flexibility to drive their kids out to another school often do it. Since whites generally have more money, they're the ones more often able to work the transportation to the transfer school.

buwaya said...

Our Catholic parochial schools are much better integrated than the public schools. Typical situation across the country, and even more so in California.
Yet the left, especially in California, despises Catholic parochial schools.

David said...

A recent study shows that7% of the 8th graders in Detroit are "proficient" in reading.

Seven fucking percent.

Statewide it's 38%.

We have much bigger problems that right to work laws.

Drago said...

Sorun: "Who's the other 30%? I'd bet it's mostly Asians, and wouldn't be surprised if they're leaving in a much greater proportion than whites."

Those would be "white asians".

Dante said...

More money is required.

Synova said...

If parents are taking their kids to schools that are "more white" are the schools also smaller? Are the school demographics wealthier? Yes, are more students in intact homes?

If more white students are shifting what are the other components? More two parent homes may well translate to transportation options. Can you drive your kid to school? If not, then you don't change schools.

Renee said...

Parenting More Important Than Schools to Academic Achievement, Study Finds

"The researchers found that students with high levels of family social capital and low levels of school social capital performed better academically than students with high levels of school social capital but low family social capital. "In other words, while both school and family involvement are important, the role of family involvement is stronger when it comes to academic success," Parcel says."


Do they bus in Madison? Or do children go to neighborhood schools?

Where I live, we have busing, when we had a high influx of Southeast Asian Americans in the early 80s. Neighborhoods are much more diverse now, compared to 30 years ago. So busing doesn't make sense. We have children sitting in traffic for 30 minutes to get to school, and parents who are less likely to attend evening school activities if they have 'to commute' to school. Some parents do not have their own transportation as well, which makes then unable to be more active in their child's school.

Ann Althouse said...

"Minority malbehavior is never corrected because it is considered racist to do so, and the kids know it."

When I went to school functions (more than 10 years ago), what I observed here was that black boys were constantly disciplined by the teachers. I thought it was embarrassing that the teachers didn't see how obvious it was. So they weren't refraining, but neither were they effective. It was bad all around, from what I saw (back then).

I really wonder if the middle aged white women who serve as teachers -- who fought for their union rights last year -- and who probably really do care about education and racial equality — have the capability to improve the situation.

David said...

Last I looked, the property taxes on the property I owned before I left Milwaukee was $100,000 per year.

That's not a typo. 100k.

I paid about $6k in the late 1980's.

The guy who bought my charming (or so I thought) 1930's house tore it down and built a mansion over twice the size. The lot is lovely--on the lake with a beach.

So for that he gets to pay 100k per year. Apparently he can afford it. Every year about 40% of what I had paid for the entire property.

But that's not the real problem. The real problem is people of modest incomes in Milwaukee paying over $10,000 for taxes on modest houses.

For the worst school system in the state.

mccullough said...

When you take blacks and hispanics' test scores out of the national average, the U.S. performs very well against the rest of the world.

Education is not a priority in many US black and hispanic homes.

White and Asian parents are not going to perform social experiments on their kids by keeping them in schools with other kids who don't want to learn.

ndspinelli said...

The teaching profession is ~80% female K-12. And no, they are not equipped to deal w/ aggressive males. When I taught I had virtually no problems w/ "bad" boys. Female teachers were clueless for the most part.

Patrick said...

When I went to school functions (more than 10 years ago), what I observed here was that black boys were constantly disciplined by the teachers

Depending upon what functions you attended, and how often, that isn't much of a barometer of what is going on. I don't doubt at all that is what you saw, but it is at least possible that the teachers were reacting to the kids based upon other things that you did not see. Possible anyway.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Perhaps the parents who are moving their children out to other schools are less interested in the progressive, unionized, political agenda of Madison's teachers and would prefer that their children just actually get an unbiased education.

deborah said...

Yes, DBQ, maybe they saw all those idiotically behaving teachers on the news and decided to get their kids out.

deborah said...

Craig, in the time it took you to write that post you could have looked it up. Now go stand in the corner for 15 minutes.

Sorun said...

"Is there any evidence that funding and school quality bear any significant relation to each other? DC spends gobs of money per student to no effect."

I lived in the DC area for 25 years. Their perennial excuse for poor schools was lack of technology. PCs when PC were hot. A decade later it's the Internet. Next it'll be something else. This is about kids who can't read.

The linked article also mentions technology. It's bullshit.

David said...

Althouse, I spent some time volunteering in a rural black primary school when I first moved to South Carolina. Because of its location in a historically black rural area, there were less than 10 white kids. We had many volunteers, predominantly white older people but also older black women from the neighborhood, who helped out at the school.

Many of the teachers were black, probably about half. The principal and vice principal were black--an item of pride in the community.

What struck me was how stringent the discipline was from the black teachers and aides. It was not harsh but it was uncompromising. The kids were not allowed to get out of line (often in a literal sense), in the halls or the classroom.

To me it seemed overbearing. It enforced conformity and inhibited spontaneity. I learned from friends who taught in the system that when these kids got to middle and high school, many were lost. They did not know how to navigate the more freewheeling atmosphere in these schools. Many either clammed up or became behavior problems.

The generation of blacks in this area who internalized the idea that it could be dangerous to stand out too much is dying out. The newer group is going in the opposite direction, but their role models are often from popular culture, not from their communities. This does not lead to the best outcomes.

Synova said...

"The teaching profession is ~80% female K-12. And no, they are not equipped to deal w/ aggressive males. When I taught I had virtually no problems w/ "bad" boys. Female teachers were clueless for the most part."

It should probably be mandated to be 50/50. I'm not in favor of government forcing stuff like that but it's simply *got* to be abusive to boys.

And after all... public school is already 100% government coercion.

So let k-5 be 100% female teachers (already is anyway.) Have 100% male teachers during middle school, grades 6-8. And require 50% male and 50% female teachers in High School.

Private schools can hire whoever they want.

Synova said...

Okay FINE. Gym teachers in middle school can include women.

Sam L. said...

What percentage of Madison teacher's kids attend public schools? Just for comparative purposes.

mccullough said...

Female teachers of boys with no fathers around. It's an interesting dynamic.

traditionalguy said...

I take it that the Teacher Unions and Board of Education Administrators will fight Charter schools to the death.

A Charter School does the same thing inside the District that another close by District does outside the District. It gives a good example of how education can succeed if anyone cares at all.

deborah said...

"The newer group is going in the opposite direction, but their role models are often from popular culture, not from their communities. This does not lead to the best outcomes."

The kicker is that the white culture rewards, even venerates, the gangsta and the negative elements of some hip-hop segments.

Ann Althouse said...

"Depending upon what functions you attended, and how often, that isn't much of a barometer of what is going on. I don't doubt at all that is what you saw, but it is at least possible that the teachers were reacting to the kids based upon other things that you did not see. Possible anyway."

I assume the teachers were reacting to what the boys were doing at the time, but the spectacle of one black boy after another getting dragged out of the group and admonished made me angry. I felt that I was witnessing racial discrimination. The teachers were in the moment, trying to get discipline as parents watched, but why was this the situation? Where was the authority? What had gone on when were weren't there? The children were disserved, whatever had happened.

edutcher said...

WI has been voting with its feet for a couple of years.

Looks like MI is going the same route.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Renee said...

deborah,

To hear white teens use the term 'n*gger' just in general terms, I find strange. They are not using it in the a truly racist manner, but the music they listen to in which a black singer uses the phrase 'f*cking n*igger' over and over again is marketed to a white audience is so alarming.

I couldn't imagine using the term, it always irritated me how blacks would use it so causally.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"I felt . . ."

God Althouse, you are giving me awful flashbacks to my 3L year and the joke of a Social Justice profesor that I had.

Is it the cushy academic job that causes people to lose all rational thinking ability, or does the cushy academic job just attract weakminded emotional people?

Sorun said...

I assume the teachers were reacting to what the boys were doing at the time, but the spectacle of one black boy after another getting dragged out of the group and admonished made me angry. I felt that I was witnessing racial discrimination.

I'd bet they likely knew the individual kids very well and were acting out of habit. A school's discipliners and discipline problems are on a first name basis.

deborah said...

Renee, do these white teens use 'N' around blacks they know? Or do they think it's a word to not use around blacks?

Renee said...

They use it on Facebook and Twitter, so I guess everyone. Just everyone is the N-word. I can honestly say I've never spoken the word verbally or typed it out correctly. I have no reason to.

Michael Haz said...

Being pro-choice also means being able to choose the schools your children attend, based entirely on your own criteria.

That is not racist, it is parenting. Stop calling it what it isn't.

Anthony said...

Pogo - "Expect Madison's population to fall, crime to rise, businesses to leave."

Maybe not. Allowing open enrollment across district lines may save the city of Madison, by allowing middle-class people to put their kids into decent schools while still living in the city. If property taxes have no limits on reassessments, expect the poor people living in middle-class neighborhoods to get squeezed out either by increasing property taxes or increasing rents, making those neighborhoods even more attractive to middle-class people who will continue to send their kids to suburban schools.

deborah said...

Thanks, Renee. Maybe we're seeing the beginning of the dilution of the word.

Rabel said...

Wisconsin reimburses parents of students who go to school out of district under the open enrollment program up to $1,064 per student per year for transportation expenses if they qualify for the free lunch program.

This may not be available in all school districts.

TosaGuy said...

I've said on this blog many times that middle class Madison folks move to Sun Prairie and other satellite cities when they have kids.

Renee said...

Tosa, Same in Boston. Student enrollment is declining so much that they are shutting down schools. The enrollemt in the suburbs is declining due to fewer families in general. They don't know what to do with the empty space.

gregq said...

Silly woman, you don't think a good progressive is going to allow his or her OWN children's lives to be damaged by crappy public schools. That's for OTHER (read poor) people's kids.

MadisonMan said...

Do they bus in Madison? Or do children go to neighborhood schools?

For middle school and up, city buses are used. My recollection is that the bus pass for a semester was $150 or so for my son. All the High Schools are on pretty prominent bus lines.

The elementary schools my kids went to were paired. My kids could walk to one (Grades 3-5) but were bussed to the K-2 one, which is a fair distance away. I think that's the case for most in Madison West's (My kids' high school) district.

I know some people who do school choice their way to different schools, for a variety of reasons.

So Madison loses $4.9M this way, but somehow they gained $11M or so because overall enrollment jumped. It must be impossible to plan a budget if you run a school district (LOL -- I initially fatfingerly typed run as ruin)

MadisonMan said...

I've said on this blog many times that middle class Madison folks move to Sun Prairie and other satellite cities when they have kids.

FWIW, I know exactly one family who has moved out of my neighborhood after having kids (severe allergies, and they were afraid of the then new co-gen plant that Chuck Chvala made the university build) -- they moved to that Prairie-type architecture development in Middleton.

SteveBrooklineMA said...

My wife and I moved to the Madison area earlier this year. To decide where to live, we checked school test scores here:

https://apps2.dpi.wi.gov

Do Madison scores compare well with a suburban district like Middleton? No, I don't think they do.

SteveBrooklineMA said...

Sorry, link is here:

https://apps2.dpi.wi.gov/sdpr/district-report.action

Gahrie said...

I assume the teachers were reacting to what the boys were doing at the time, but the spectacle of one black boy after another getting dragged out of the group and admonished made me angry. I felt that I was witnessing racial discrimination.

Just out of curiosity....why?

Isn't your assumption just as misguided as the person who looks at the same scene and thinks "of course Black boys don't know how to behave themselves"?

Wally Kalbacken said...

I live in Palm Beach County, FL. In the reasonably priced seats. Rush Limbaugh has a nice place in Palm Beach, on the Atlantic. Far from the nicest place there, he pays $458,000 per year in property taxes.

chickelit said...

Isn't your assumption just as misguided as the person who looks at the same scene and thinks "of course Black boys don't know how to behave themselves"?

Yes, but Althouse's interpretation puts the onus on the whites which is the preferred response.

Maguro said...

When I went to school functions (more than 10 years ago), what I observed here was that black boys were constantly disciplined by the teachers. I thought it was embarrassing that the teachers didn't see how obvious it was. So they weren't refraining, but neither were they effective. It was bad all around, from what I saw (back then).

I really wonder if the middle aged white women who serve as teachers -- who fought for their union rights last year -- and who probably really do care about education and racial equality — have the capability to improve the situation.


So...were the black kids actually misbehaving during these school functions or was it just the teachers singling them out for discipline even though they behaved no worse than the white kids? You don't say, so what are we to assume? It is not actually a given that all groups of students misbehave at the same rate.

My mom used to have a lot of same liberal delusions about race and education that you seem to have. All the fault of the white teachers. Those poor black boys are getting such a raw deal from their schools. Then she got a job teaching at a black high school. That cast the issue in a whole new light.

You ought to try it sometime, Althouse. I think it's hard for someone like you to really understand what it's like dealing with the left half of the bell curve. Particularly in this day and ag of political correctness.

Gahrie said...

You ought to try it sometime, Althouse

As a public school teacher, I'd be willing to bet that Althouse would not last a year at an average innercity high school. Not many people can.

Mary Beth said...

I assume the teachers were reacting to what the boys were doing at the time, but the spectacle of one black boy after another getting dragged out of the group and admonished made me angry. I felt that I was witnessing racial discrimination.

You may be right but without knowing the behavior of the students, we have no way to tell.

Erika said...

Why did you think you were witnessing discrimination? Did you have some other evidence that you have not shared with us yet? Do you offer that anecdote with the awareness that it is entirely possible that you were jumping to conclusions?

wyo sis said...

Being able to handle unruly students is not about whether you're male or female as much as it's about your own personal authority. Teachers with authority can control a class. I'm not sure personal authority can be taught. (Maybe in the military.)It's something you are and kids recognize it. I suspect Ann would do just fine in an inner city classroom.

Ralph L said...

If you remember "Remember the Titans", it was about the City of Alexandria VA combining their 3 high schools to begin racial integration from the upper grades (big mistake). The movie didn't tell you that system enrollment dropped in HALF during the 70's (only partly due to the rising cost of non-public housing keeping young families out). Total number of school employees did not change, however, but several nearly-new schools were closed.

I did practically nothing in 7th grade, so one of the many students lost to private schools was me.

cubanbob said...

Surf 20 years ago I voted for the save our homes property cap amendment. Without that you would be paying between 2% to 2.8% of fair market value. You can thank me for being able to live in paradise at a ridiculously low price.
You would cry if you knew what my FL property tax bill is even with the early pay discount.

Ann you must have a really fab gig with a really sweet compensation package. Who would pay $15,000 a year in property taxes plus a state income tax in a place that is practically Siberia 5 months a year if not for the money?

Eric said...

Why is this a surprise? Or is it? The leftists who cluck over racial "dog whistles" only they can hear yank their kids from the local public school as soon as the first few black faces show up.

Michael K said...

When I was living in New Hampshire in 1994-95, the Hanover school district was a great demand. Schools in New Hampshire at that time were local funded and controlled. Small towns which did not have schools would pay tuition to larger towns so their kids could attend those schools. Hanover was charging $17,000 per year for the high school. Kids in Hanover High had the option to attend some classes at Dartmouth so the demand was high.

Since the Democrats have taken over New Hampshire, I don't know what the situation is now.

Gahrie said...

Being able to handle unruly students is not about whether you're male or female as much as it's about your own personal authority.

True. But when one's first instincts on witnessing the scene Althouse describes is to ascribe racism to the teachers, I have my doubts about that authority. An innercity high school classroom is far removed from law school.

Mary said...

"The leftists who cluck over racial "dog whistles" only they can hear yank their kids from the local public school as soon as the first few black faces show up."

I don't think it's the black faces. It's the drop in education scores and college admittance rates. You can attribute those to more minority participation, but suffice it to say, if the suburban schools like Middleton are better, wealthier, cleaner, newer, and offer better sports/academics/learning environment, parents will pick a nearby switch no matter the racial implications.

Mary said...

"I felt that I was witnessing racial discrimination. The teachers were in the moment, trying to get discipline as parents watched, but why was this the situation? Where was the authority? What had gone on when were weren't there? The children were disserved, whatever had happened."

Black children are much less likely to have a man in the home. As more and more white children, like your sons, are raised in non-intact family homes, you can watch the whole school society turn to teaching self discipline, and not learning.

If children -- white black or immigrant -- learn this at home, they are much better off going to a school with like minded families that value education over remedying discrimination, providing male "role models", or worrying about racial makeup.

I suspect your home value will drop accordingly as the Madison school districts lose value. So you'll save more in taxes, though there might not be as much demand when you sell for your large, family-size house in a decreased value school district.

Most new professors, with intact families and young children, they are choosing Middleton, Sun Prairie, Oregon, the "suburbs", right? My property professor was talking that way 7 to 10 years ago. You have to sniff out these trends from the outset, or you'll be surprised later by the voting with the feet.

Mary said...

Plus, never underestimate the value of extracurriculars, including sports teams for boys and girls, to middle and upper class white families.

They want to play, and simply put, there's more opportunities for them and better teams (think hockey) right outside Madison.

Oso Negro said...

Ann, what you were seeing was a small sample of the behavior of the students. For all you know, it is the 750th time LaJarametrious has gotten on the poor teacher's one remaining nerve and she is ready to whip his little black behind. With a more complete picture, you might very well marvel at her incredible restraint.

Rusty said...

Who would pay $15,000 a year in property taxes.

Apparently some people have found the utility of living in Madison isn't worth the price of living in Madison.

Rusty said...

traditionalguy said...
I take it that the Teacher Unions and Board of Education Administrators will fight Charter schools to the death.

A Charter School does the same thing inside the District that another close by District does outside the District. It gives a good example of how education can succeed if anyone cares at all.

You know what's funny. Teachers unions will fight a voucher system to the death. You know who really likes school vouchers? Inner city black moms. Moms who want their kids to turn out better than they did. What's not so funny. In fact it's sad is teachers unions don't want the children of black moms to have a choice.

MadisonMan said...

They want to play, and simply put, there's more opportunities for them and better teams (think hockey) right outside Madison.

I normally ignore you, because you're almost always wrong, but I'll just ask (because you are wrong again): Which High School in Dane County has the most recent state Championship? Which has the second most recent? Which has the third most recent?

That would be Madison West (Boys Cross Country -- 2012), Madison West (Girls Soccer -- 2012), Madison Memorial (Boys Swimming -- 2012).

Go Peddle your ignorance where you are actually wanted.

gerry said...

$12,000 property tax.

Sucker.

gerry said...

teachers unions don't want the children of black moms to have a choice.

But they'll pay high dues to contribute to political parties to make sure those moms can have their uteruses vacuumed whenever they want to. It's called pro-choice.

Today, the black child's most dangerous place is his mother's uterus.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Wow. Big long thread about education and not one word about the role of genetic determined IQ.

No wonder solutions are elusive.

It's almost as if folks think that if we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist.

You can ignore reality if you choose to. But you won't be able to ignore the consequences of ignoring it. That's just how reality rolls.

Strelnikov said...

"White Flight"? Is there a place whiter than Madison, WI?

Mary said...

"That would be Madison West (Boys Cross Country -- 2012), Madison West (Girls Soccer -- 2012), Madison Memorial (Boys Swimming -- 2012).

Go Peddle your ignorance where you are actually wanted."


I was thinking real sports, like hockey. The Suters, the new rink, it's not in inner city Madison, is it?

(Sorry, forgot in your arrogance, you are but an academic. A minority, even in Madison. So you overemphasize cross country and swimming in sports' popularity.)

Hope you bother to check back. (That's a hockey thing too. You know, physical competion against each other, strong opponents to better oneself. Not just racing a clock, routinely.)

Tell me: do they even offer girls' hockey in Madison schools?

MadisonMan said...

Girls' Hockey is a Co-op sport. Like Downhill Ski Racing.

I'm surprised you don't know this.

MadisonMan said...

Please continue to ignore soccer as a sport though. No one plays it after all.