November 16, 2012

Gov. Scott Walker rejects state participation in Obamacare.

"Unfortunately, operating a state exchange would not provide the flexibility to meet our state's unique needs or to protect our state's taxpayers."

And here's a story from 3 days ago: "9 lawmakers want to arrest U.S. officials who implement Obamacare." Arrest?! This is how tea partiers get the reputation nutty.

136 comments:

John said...

Ya. Not only is arrest a nutty idea, it doesn't even come close to being appropriate. Tar n Feathers! That would be the right ticket.

edutcher said...

Good for him.

I see Rick Perry did so, too.

And, as to the Tea Partiers, only the Alinsky crowd on the Left pushes that line.

Shame on you, Ann, for supporting false and negative stereotyping.

shiloh said...

"Shame on you, Ann, for supporting false and negative stereotyping."

Indeed, shame on you lol for not continuing to pet your #1 doting, trained seal!

Seeing Red said...

Because the arrests should always be on Uncle Sam's side?

YoungHegelian said...

From the "9 Lawmakers" article:

All nine also told a tea party-aligned group they backed passing [laws].....allowing people to buy raw, or unpasteurized, milk;

That sounds really crunchy-con, even hippy-dippy organo-weirdness to much of the rest of the country. But in the Wisconsin dairy country, that just may be all about "freedom to run my goddamn business as my customers and I please".

McTriumph said...

Can't be too nutty, note that Kathleen and The Black Nixon have again moved the deadline for states to implement healthcare exchanges.

Carl said...

That's right! Why all this fuss and anger and incivility that might lead to ladies hearing bad words?

Can't y'all just go gently into that good night?

Petunia said...

Good for Governor Walker! The arrest idea is nutty, of course.

machine said...

"...have again moved the deadline for states to implement healthcare exchanges."

...at the request of GOP Governors' Association...

Booger Orr said...

99% a reality?

SteveR said...

...at the request of GOP Governors' Association...

And we certainly know that's got to be the only reason. / sarc


Lem said...

Nutty is not ugly... yet.

machine said...

...conspiracies everywhere...

B said...

machine said..."...have again moved the deadline for states to implement healthcare exchanges."

...at the request of GOP Governors' Association...


Your point? If ~40 states with GOP governors and legislatures duly elected by the people of those states decide to say no to Obamacare they should have the right. The GOP won in those states. Elections have consequences I believe is the operative phrase here.

If their citizens of those states feel differently about Obamacare in sufficient numbers, why then vote them out next time.

And if Obama and Sebelius didn't think it would be a political disaster to try to force those states to implement Obamacare, they would do so.

Titus said...

Where's Reince Preibus?

I love Reince Preibus, or is it Priebus?

I will miss Reince Priebus.

Reince
Priebus
Reince.

tits.

Titus said...

Please secede moocher, taker states too,

Strelnikov said...

The update reminds my of a recent Onion headline: "Kentucky Lawmakers Outlaw Gay Pet Marriages".

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

Shame on you, Ann, for supporting false and negative stereotyping.

Indeed, shame on you lol for not continuing to pet your #1 doting, trained seal!


At least I do my own thinking.

So where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

Cheering on the union slugs as the Hostess employees found they had no jobs just in time for the holidays?

shiloh said...

"At least I do my own thinking."

At least you do your own whining.

FIFY

machine said...

"If ~40 states with GOP governors and legislatures duly elected by the people of those states decide to say no to Obamacare they should have the right."

So, there is no federal law? States can just ignore federal law?

Calypso Facto said...

Walker ALSO rejects the idea of arresting Obamacare officials:

"Gov. Scott Walker does not agree with nine Republican state lawmakers who say they would support arresting federal officials who try to implement President Barack Obama's health care law in Wisconsin."

Governor Walker, once again the adult in the room.

X said...

So, there is no federal law? States can just ignore federal law?

show me your papers

Lem said...

The whiner the constantly whines that others are whining is the bigger whiner of them all.

garage mahal said...

This state is ruled by children. But, probably best Walker isn't involved with healthcare anyhow. He probably wants to run against in 2014 and fire up his huckleberry base.

mccullough said...

This is a good move. Under Obamacare and the regs, the Secretary of HHS determines what every health insurance policy must have, and based on what she's been doing, the minimum policy will require so much that there is effectively nothing any state can do. It is federal control with state administration. Why would the states pay the money to administer the federal program.

If Obamacare was about federalism, the only requirement for a policy in an exchange would be a basic high-deductible catastrophic policy, and the states could add policies from there.

This is Obama's mess, let him deal with it.

The Farmer said...

You people who are patting Walker on the back, do you live in Wisconsin? I'm just wondering if you'll actually be affected by the outcome of letting the federal government run our state's insurance exchange.

Also, why is that a good idea?

Pastafarian said...

machine and shiloh, maybe your side should have considered whether this monstrosity could feasibly be implemented in more than a handful of states, before upending a system that's worked for decades.

We had a 12% increase in our premiums last year, by the way, even though we were forced to reduce benefits, so that they won't be considered "Cadillac" under the new law.

And they'll increase 15% this year, and 15% the year after that.

So tell me what I should do in 2014, when I can't afford to offer insurance to my employees, and Ohio has no exchange set up for them to participate in.

Seriously, I'd like to know. You were expert enough in employer-provided health insurance to go bumbling in with your suggestions for a new system; let's hear some answers.

And while you're at it, maybe you can tell me how I can fit the SBC into 4 pages of 12-point type while including all of the elements required by the law. And how I'm supposed to afford an interpreter to convey this in a "culturally and linguistically appropriate manner".

The Farmer said...

mccullough said...
This is a good move. Under Obamacare and the regs, the Secretary of HHS determines what every health insurance policy must have, and based on what she's been doing, the minimum policy will require so much that there is effectively nothing any state can do. It is federal control with state administration. Why would the states pay the money to administer the federal program.


That's essentially what Walker said. He couldn't provide a single example, but he's sure it's bad.

phx said...

The whiner the constantly whines that others are whining is the bigger whiner of them all.

Oh, yeah?? Well, in my book the whiner who whines about the whiner that constatnly whines that others are whining.....

oh never mind.

The Farmer said...

Pastafarian said...
machine and shiloh, maybe your side should have considered whether this monstrosity could feasibly be implemented in more than a handful of states, before upending a system that's worked for decades.


That's not the point. I'm against Obamacare, but we're stuck with it. Why not do our best to tailor it to our state's needs? This seems like a tantrum on his part. I want our governor looking out for the people in our state, not saying it's too hard because the big bad federal government has too many rules.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
X said...

pasta your options seem to be:

1. pay til you go bankrupt.
2. cut your employees to 29 hours.
3. outsource or independent contract.

obama wants you to choose no.1.

Inga said...

With the gerimandering we got the state government we didn't want. Can all the sane people move to Madison and surrounding area, the Tea Party can secede to Waukesha County and surrounding area? The others can stay put.

Pastafarian said...

"That's not the point" of what, "The Farmer"?

It's my fucking point I'm making. I'm asking the idiots that supported this mess: What do I do now? Do I send my employees off to fend for themselves in some federal exchange?

One of those employees' sons has to have heart surgery every couple of years. I wonder how high on the priority list he'll be when demand for medical services outstrips supply. I wonder how many of these idiots even knows how much premiums cost a small business like mine; or how much they've gone up since Obama started this stupidity; or what the SBC is; or how many other absurd hoops there are to jump through to comply with this 2400 page puddle of shit.

shiloh said...

"The whiner the constantly whines that others are whining is the bigger whiner of them all."

Lem's pretzel logic aside, just stating conservative reality.

Although Althouse #1 doting, trained seal certainly is a special case re: ad nauseam whining.

Hey, Reps need a con court jester as a nice diversion from their despair!

Pastafarian said...

X, I've already started hiring people in assembly at part time rather than full time.

I've never done that before, ever in our history.

So now we're hiring people at low wages with no benefits -- no insurance, no paid holidays, no paid vacation. They've forced a top-hat onto my head and a monocle into my eye.

But I'll still have a core of long-time employees that have been with us for years, some over 30 years. What do I do with them?

X said...

it was stupid both times you posted it Inga. maybe one more time will do the trick.

trumpetdaddy said...

With a near-record number of states now lead by Republican legislatures and Republican governors, expect Obamacare to be shoved right up the ass of both Obama and the idiots who voted for him.

You want national, single-payer? Well, you're going to get it, good and hard, blue state voters.

The Dems pulled out all the stops to get their sheep to pull the lever for Obama and their Dem US Senator candidate, but forgot to ask (pay) the idiots to vote Dem further down the ticket.

So, you get what we got in Ohio. O re-elected by about 1.9% and Sherrod Brown re-elected by about 3% and total R dominance down the rest of the ticket.

These Obama idiots wrote that stupid ACA law so incompetently that most of the states are going to say "fuck you," and we haven't even gotten 25% of the way through the law suits against it.

So, what we get is a total clusterfuck whereby millions lose their insurance coverage, the economy stays in the very-famous "ditch" and Obama skates on out of office before it all falls apart and responsible adults have to fix the whole damn thing when its even further FUBAR.

Helluva job, Obama voters. But you dodged that tampon ban, though.

Inga said...

X, since you are so brilliant, perhaps you can learn to capitalize.

X said...

I don't know pasta. I do know the blunt force of regulation actually requires me to operate in ways against my morals and against my customer's best interests. but here's the thing, know it all government types don't give a shit.

X said...

OK Granny

leslyn said...

I protest against marginializing these nine legislators by calling them "Tea Partiers!"

mccullough said...

The Farmer,

Go look at the draft regulations of qualified health plans. The Secretary did not seek input from any of the states and these policies very detailed (remember that they have to pay for birth control with no deductible or co-pay). She's requiring very extensive health plans that leave no room for state innovation, unlike Medicaid that has a certain floor for coverage that states can build on (or used to be able to).

Why should Wisconsin tax payers have to foot the bill for a federal program? Let the federal government pay for and run their own program. This makes total sense.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I don't understand all the piss and vinegar over Walker's decision. He's only taking advantage of an option that Democrats included in the law. If you don't like it, you know who to blame.

Anyway, I thought the left was all about the supremacy of federal authority. In this case, Walker is acquiescing to a higher authority. You would think the wingnuts would be happy.

leslyn said...

Calypso Facto said...
Walker ALSO rejects the idea of arresting Obamacare officials:

"Gov. Scott Walker does not agree with nine Republican state lawmakers who say they would support arresting federal officials who try to implement President Barack Obama's health care law in Wisconsin."

Governor Walker, once again the adult in the room.


Heh. The same Governor Walker who called out the State Patrol to hunt down the Dem legislators and arrest them for leaving the state--

The same Governor Walker who doesn't know that violates the state Constitution?

mccullough said...

The Farmer,

The state doesn't "get to tailor it to suit" your needs. That's the whole point. They get to administer it. They can't change it or do anything to it except add on to it, i.e. require it to cover more.

There are no high-deductible policies. 60 year old men who had vasectomies 20 years ago are now going to have to buy policies that cover birth control with no deductibles.

leslyn said...

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
I don't understand all the piss and vinegar over Walker's decision. He's only taking advantage of an option that Democrats included in the law.

You are correct, IMO.

garage mahal said...

Why should Wisconsin tax payers have to foot the bill for a federal program?

Walker turned down 38 million to set up the exchanges.

And didn't Wisconsin voters pretty decisively vote for ObamaCare less than two weeks ago?

Marshal said...

This is how tea partiers get the reputation nutty.

Luckily leftists don't engage in political stunts. Oh wait...

The real question is why we hold one group to such a standard while the nuts on the left not only discuss nuttiness but engage in it also.

The Farmer said...

It's my fucking point I'm making. I'm asking the idiots that supported this mess: What do I do now? Do I send my employees off to fend for themselves in some federal exchange?

Who knows. You're wildly off topic.

mccullough - from the article:

The law leaves dozens of decisions to states that set up their own exchanges. Those decisions will determine whether consumers can easily compare health plans, what plans can be sold on the exchange, what the plans must cover, the cost of the plans and whether the exchange increases competition among health insurers.

I don't want the federal government making those decisions for Wisconsin.

trumpetdaddy said...

With the Supreme Court ruling in June that said that the Feds can't take away Medicaid funding from the states, the foundation for all these R governors telling the Feds to fuck off was officially blessed by the courts.

So, they are now telling the Feds to fuck off.

Gov. Jindal's letter was a masterpiece of how to professionally tell the Feds to fuck off.

All you Obama voters who wanted single payer? You're gonna get it, good and hard.

All those employer-provided plans that you enjoy? Going bye-bye unless you work for a mega corporation like my wife does.

You're gonna get shoved into the American version of the NHS and you thought that only the poor plebes would have to suffer such a fate.

And your R state gov't isn't going to lift a finger to help you.

Elections have consequences.

AllenS said...

Yet with tea party conservatives opposed to advancing the law in any way and many guidelines still unissued by the federal government, Walker since taking office has gradually switched his position on a state-run exchange from support for the idea to Friday's flat opposition.

Nowhere in the article did anyone from the Tea Party say this. Those words were from the Journal Sentinel authors.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Walker's next move should be to move all state employees to the federally managed exchanges. It's only right that those who fought so long and hard for Obamacare be the first to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

trumpetdaddy said...

"And didn't Wisconsin voters pretty decisively vote for ObamaCare less than two weeks ago?"

Nope, dumbass. The Dems got their people out to pull the lever for Obama and Baldwin but forgot to ask (bribe) them to vote in any of the other races.

You've got a Republican state government, pretty overwhelmingly so because our voters remembered to vote in all the elections on 11/6.

And your R state government is taking advantage of the incompetence of how the Dems wrote Obamacare to shove it right back up your ass.

James Madison and the boys in 1789 were pretty smart with that whole Federalism, division of powers thing, weren't they?

Enjoy.

leslyn said...

This is how tea partiers get the reputation nutty.

edutcher said,

"Shame on you, Ann, for supporting false and negative stereotyping."

Right on, eddie! Who says they're Tea Partiers?

Curious George said...

"Inga said...
With the gerimandering we got the state government we didn't want."

Walker's election and recall win had nothing to do with redistricting + the GOP super majority in the Assembly occurred before redistricting + the GOP majority in the Senate happened before redistricting = You're a fucking moron.

Freder Frederson said...

before upending a system that's worked for decades.

How exactly has the system "worked for decades". Medical spending and insurance rates have been outstripping inflation for decades. And still this country spends much more on medical care (as a percentage of GDP) than any other advanced country yet leaves a significant portion of the population uninsured and has no better outcomes than countries that spend much less on healthcare.

Pastafarian said...

mccullough: "There are no high-deductible policies."

Exactly -- no high-deductible policies allowed; we're not allowed to ask the employees to pay a higher percentage of the premiums; and yet premiums must necessarily go way, way up, much faster than they were before, because insurers must cover people with pre-existing conditions, meaning that people can wait til they're sick (paying a trivial penalty, if they feel like it) before applying for "insurance".

(Would it really be automotive "insurance" if you could purchase it ten minutes after wrecking your car?)

The whole point to this 2400 page puddle of shit was to burn down the existing system.

Congratulations shiloh, machine, garage, leslyn, phx. You've burned it down. Now what do I tell that guy whose son will need heart surgery in a couple of years?

Oh wait, that's right. You don't give a fuck. You care about your own validation; you want to feel good about yourself, you want to feel like Robin Hood. And you want to feel smarter than the common man, who you actually despise.

Well, it's not your charity when it's stolen from someone else, poopdicks. And Robin Hood didn't rob small businessmen, he robbed tax collectors.

And your very clever plan has upset a system that worked to provide the best health care in the world more equitably than any other system ever devised anywhere. You've arrogantly bumbled us all into chaos and ruin.

garage mahal said...

I wonder of the WIGOP thinks that Obama would just send 10 men on horseback to settle ObamaCare. And they would meet them on the ridge, and arrest them!

2010 is easily the worst thing that's happened to this state. Ever. What a bunch of fucking clowns.

gerry said...

Well, the feds arrested somebody for making a video, right? Or, is that how Obama and his cronies get a reputation for unconstitutional crappy actions?

Speaking of which, have you heard that it is likely that a member of the Obama campaign cabal may have edited Petraeus' Benghazi report as an assist to the Prevaricator-in-Chief? It seems that campaign officials get to see secret stuff and change it if it looks bad for the boss...reminds me of Nixon's shananigans.

trumpetdaddy said...

"The whole point to this 2400 page puddle of shit was to burn down the existing system."

Exactly.

Except they did it so bloody incompetently that they managed to write the bill in such a way that the coercion mechanisms got torched by the Court in June.

Now, the states are telling the Feds to fuck off and all the middle-class white liberal "caring" Obama voters out there sipping their lattes in their trendy little art galleries are gonna get shoved into the NHS with all the Medicaid plebes and have to wait for a sub-standard foreign doc for 6 months like the inner-city underclass scum.

Didn't count on that, did you Skippy, back when you were railing against those "greedy" insurance companies and Big Pharma?

Pastafarian said...

Freder, it's worked for decades because...it's worked for decades. I've been able to afford to provide health insurance to my employees for decades.

Then at the end of 2010, premiums went up 9%; at the end of 2011, 12%; we're locked into rates for 2013 another 12% higher than they were the year before. Our insurance broker predicts that BC/BS rates will go up, for a plan like ours, by 15% at the end of 2013, and another 15% the year after that.

That's an 80% increase in just a few years. Premiums are already larger than our net income. This rate of increase far, far outpaces the increases we saw in preceding years.

And now, after 2014, for the first time, our small company will not be able to afford to offer health insurance. And in fact, our insurance broker tells us that by the end of 2014, almost no small private employers will be able to afford premiums, let alone the cost of bureaucratic nonsense like the SBC.

Congratulations, Freder. You've fucked this up for everyone.

trumpetdaddy said...

I'd love to see a film put together of all the suburban liberal douchebags with Obama stickers on their Subarus when they find out their family doc retired and the only med practice that will take their new PPACA cards that they were stuck with when their employer cancelled their group corp coverage is the urgent care clinic downtown.

Orange plastic seats and meth addicts sitting next to you in the packed waiting room.

Enjoy, bitches.

gerry said...

You're a fucking moron.

You have to have to remember that Progressive history started only a few minutes before their assertions start to spew from the dim recesses of the space behind their eyeballs.

leslyn said...

Oh, gerry. I was going to copy what you said, but it was just pointless. Come join us on Planet Earth.

Calypso Facto said...

The same Governor Walker who called out the State Patrol...

Which only further reinforces my point about him being the adult in the room when 14 senators fled their elected representative posts in a hissy fit.

Pasta- I sympathize with you, but I don't have the answers. We'll probably be dropping our health insurance too, because we're caught in the squeeze between escalating costs for now Federally mandated extras and then penalized for the "Cadillac" plan we GIVE (literally, no employee contribution) to our rank and file. It'll certainly be easier and far cheaper not to deal administer the insurance, but I lament for the 20, 30, and 40 year people we have that are accustomed to our existing benefits.

Pastafarian said...

The Farmer: "You're wildly off topic."

Because I'm in Ohio, where the governor has declined to participate in ObamaCare, and you're discussing Wisconsin, where the governor has declined to participate in ObamaCare?

Hey "The Farmer": Go fuck yourself. Use your bald head to do it, as it resembles the end of a circumcised penis. Is that on-topic enough for you?

Kirk Parker said...

Farmer,

"Why not do our best to tailor it to our state's needs?"

"May the Lord bless and keep Obamacare... ... ... FAR away from us!" is precisely what's best for Wisconsin.

phx said...

Use your bald head to do it, as it resembles the end of a circumcised penis.

I just hate it when the wingers use their intelligence against us.

trumpetdaddy said...

Oh, and you had better hope the USSC sides with the Roman Catholic Church because it'll be a real harsh to your liberal mellow to take little Aubrey and little Joshua to the University Hospital emergency room with all the drive-by shooting victims when the Church closes all their hospitals and clinics, most of which are in the 'burbs.

"Mommy, why is that man bleeding all over my Dora the Explorer lunch box?"

Pastafarian said...

Calypso Facto, it sounds like you're in about the same position as us. We charge our employees for insurance, but it's a very small amount, much less than other employers in this area.

Now we won't even be able to increase that employee contribution, beyond a certain amount, to make up for the increases in premiums.

I agree, from the company's perspective, if we can get out of the insurance business altogether, that will just save us a shit-ton of money. Which we'll then get to pay taxes on...and those S-corp marginal rates will be going up. And maybe we can use some of those savings to pay key employees more, so that they can afford to go out and get their own insurance...but then they'll have to pay taxes on those increased wages.

All of this upheaval and destruction, for what? To reduce the number of people without any insurance, from 40 million to 30 million.

mccullough said...

The Farmer,

The person who wrote that article doesn't know shit. There was no discussion of "qualified health plan" and the regs that HHS has already drafted as to what they must have.

The floor for a qualified health plan is so high that there is no meaningful state input. The HHS Secretary in D.C. has already told you what's best for Wisconsin. Why should the state pay to be a branch office of HHS? It shouldn't

The Farmer said...

Pastafarian said...
Hey "The Farmer": Go fuck yourself. Use your bald head to do it, as it resembles the end of a circumcised penis. Is that on-topic enough for you?


Still off topic.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

The Farmer said: That's not the point. I'm against Obamacare, but we're stuck with it. Why not do our best to tailor it to our state's needs?

I think you have just self-identified as what the Socialist/Communists call A Useful Idiot.

A little introspection might be in order.

garage mahal said...

According to CNN Money, yesterday, insurance premiums went up 4.1% in 2011, the smallest increase in 15 years.

The Farmer said...

mccullough said...
The Farmer,

The person who wrote that article doesn't know shit. There was no discussion of "qualified health plan" and the regs that HHS has already drafted as to what they must have.

The floor for a qualified health plan is so high that there is no meaningful state input. The HHS Secretary in D.C. has already told you what's best for Wisconsin. Why should the state pay to be a branch office of HHS? It shouldn't


Link, please.

Also, why do you think pretty much everybody across the political spectrum in Wisconsin was in favor of a state run exchange?

I'm not asking a snarky question - it just seems very unlikely that the WMC and other conservative organizations would ever back a state run exchange if the conditions were as you stated. And it seems even more unlikely that Tammy Baldwin and co.
would back it with Walker in office.

So what were both the left and the right in Wisconsin missing?

Inga said...

Farmer, your "purity" is in question. One of the things that lost them the Presidential election.

Keep moving ever further to the right conservatives, march! >>>>>>>>>>>

Michael said...

Garage: Give us a link to that insurance number, please. I believe that reuters and others were reporting 9% jumps in 2011


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/27/us-usa-health-poll-kaiser-idUSTRE78Q31820110927

The Farmer said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
The Farmer said: That's not the point. I'm against Obamacare, but we're stuck with it. Why not do our best to tailor it to our state's needs?

I think you have just self-identified as what the Socialist/Communists call A Useful Idiot.


II took the same attitude when Walker won (both times). I don't like his policies but I hope they work out for the best for everyone in the state. I'm not sure why you think that point of view is idiotic but okay.

So what should I do? Organize a protest? Threaten to move to Canada? Hold my breath till I turn blue? Log onto to Althouse and foam at the mouth?

The Farmer said...

Inga said...
Farmer, your "purity" is in question. One of the things that lost them the Presidential election.

Keep moving ever further to the right conservatives, march! >>>>>>>>>>>


Just because I'm not a liberal doesn't mean I'm a conservative.

It's incredible me that so many people here don't get that.

leslyn said...

Calypso Facto insists...
The same Governor Walker who called out the State Patrol...

Which only further reinforces my point about him being the adult in the room when 14 senators fled their elected representative posts in a hissy fit.

....Totally ignoring the unconstitutionality of the issue.


The Farmer said...

Kirk Parker said...
Farmer,

"Why not do our best to tailor it to our state's needs?"

"May the Lord bless and keep Obamacare... ... ... FAR away from us!" is precisely what's best for Wisconsin.


How does refusing to open a state run exchange accomplish that?

garage mahal said...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The cost of providing health care benefits to employees rose by just 4.1% this year, the smallest increase in 15 years, according to a survey by human resources consultant Mercer.
And employers are expecting to see another modest increase of 5% next year, the survey of 2,800 companies found. That's a far cry from the beginning of the decade, when employers reported increases of 10% to nearly 15% a year. Last year, benefit costs rose by 6.1%.

mccullough said...

Farmer,

I'm not a good linker on blogger. Here's the url on proposed rule for exchanges and qualified health plans.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-07-15/pdf/2011-17610.pdf

Michael said...

Garage: From the actual Mercer study:"Group health care plan costs increased more than 6 percent in 2011 and the cost per employee crossed the $10,000 mark, according to a survey of more than 2,800 employers released Nov. 16 by Mercer L.L.C. in New York.

The 6.1 percent increase brought health plan costs to an average of $10,146 per employee compared with $9,562 in 2010, according to the survey.

This year's increase is slightly less than in 2010, when costs jumped an average of 6.9 percent, but is in line with cost increases in recent years. From 2005 through 2007, health plan costs rose an average of 6.1 percent annually, while in 2008 costs increased an average of 6.3 percent. In 2009, costs climbed an average of 5.5 percent, which was the smallest rise in a decade."

I think the CNN Money writer was relying on a headline in the Mercer report that does not comport with the contents of the report.

Rabel said...

From garage's link:

"But the more modest increases aren't because doctors or insurers are charging less. Faced with the 2014 implementation of health care reform, employers are making a greater effort to control their costs by shifting more of the expense and risk on to their employees."

The Farmer said...

mccullough - thanks. I misread you - I didn't know these rules weren't in place yet.

Start a state run exchange and then fight for what's best for your state! Don't complain that the proposed rules aren't to your liking. They're not even set yet! Get in there and fight for Wisconsin, Scott Walker!

Rabel said...

So what we see by reading garage's article is that according to one survey employer costs rose only 4.1% due to cost shifting from employer to employee.

This means that CNN's headline and garage's comment are misleading. Imagine that.

mccullough said...

The Farmer,

Gov. Daniels in Indiana tried to work with HHS but they are incredibly slow and can't answer questions because they are still working out proposed regulations. The ones they have proposed are bad.

Yet HHS wants states to tell them if they will join up without even making basic guarantees as to what will or won't be in the regs. Why would any competent governor agree to that?

mccullough said...

Farmer,

Also, the state can't set up its own exchange by itself. It has to set one up that complies with HHS regs. HHS has proposed regs and interested parties submitted questions and proposed changes. That period is over.

HHS could very well just issue the proposed regulations as final since the period of notice and comment is now closed. Despite the fact that many interested parties suggested high deductible policies, HHS proposed regulation specifically did not include them.

SteveR said...

This means that CNN's headline and garage's comment are misleading. Imagine that.

Sun rises in the east

X said...

According to CNN Money, yesterday, insurance premiums went up 4.1%

who you gonna believe pasta? CNN and garage or your lying eyes and lying insurance agent?

The Farmer said...

mccullough said...
The Farmer,

Gov. Daniels in Indiana tried to work with HHS but they are incredibly slow and can't answer questions because they are still working out proposed regulations. The ones they have proposed are bad.

Yet HHS wants states to tell them if they will join up without even making basic guarantees as to what will or won't be in the regs. Why would any competent governor agree to that?


Because whatever does or doesn't happen, it's better to have as much control as possible. Again, the major conservative organization in the state, the WMC, backed the exchange. Why do you think they did that?

This seems like political grandstanding to me. If we're going to be stuck with Obamacare I think we should at least try to have some say in it. Ceding 100% of the control to the federal government because they might put a bunch of restrictions on you that you don't want seems goofy. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Agree to do it. Fight for what you want. If you don't get it, by all means, highlight that. use it in your next campaign. Go nuts with it. But for God's sake, don't leave us to the tender mercies of the federal government because you just can't bring yourself to accept terms that haven't even been set yet.


The Farmer said...

Honestly, the complete lack of manliness from so many conservatives post-election has been eye-opening. All we heard from conservatives before, during and after the recall is that liberals lost and the people had spoken, so they should accept the results of the election and move ahead. Then they lose one and suddenly the conservatives want to take their ball and go home. Suck it up guys. Like you were just saying, the people have spoken. Deal with it. Knock off the whining and make shit happen. It's always hard to make ends meet, no matter who's in office. It's always a pain in the ass to run a business, no matter who's in office. Government always gets in the way, no matter who's in office. Complain about the policies. That's fair enough. Fight against them - again, fair enough. But stop acting like the sky is falling. We didn't elect Obama dictator - he's gone in 4 years no matter what.

I'm not referring to you, mccullough.

Matt said...

"Protect the tax payers but don't protect the sick." Not a winning slogan but one the right wing seems to like.

Inga said...

Barabara Bush agrees with you Farmer

X said...

"ObamaCare states that “an Exchange may not establish rules that conflict with or prevent the application of regulations promulgated by the Secretary under this subtitle.” State control? Federal control? Either way, it's Washington's way."

"ObamaCare's legislative language indicates that businesses in states that opt out won't be subject to the law's employer health insurance mandate, a $2,000 annual per employee tax on many employers who don't provide qualifying insurance."

mccullough said...

The Farmer,

The best way to have HHS regs and some Obamacare provisions to be changed is for the governors to say they are not running the exchanges and are not expanding Medicaid.

It's the only leverage left to get good changes to the healthcare bill. So the governors saying they aren't doing it is the best course of action to take. No one is quitting or giving in. Obama will have to come to the table and agree to some important changes or he won't be able to implement Obamacare.

Alex said...

I predict every Republican governor who petulantly opposes ObamaCare will be thrown out in 2014. That means Walker & Jindal for starters. They are the religious right poison that will destroy the GOP.

Alex said...

The moderates are sick & tired of these GOP governors who petulantly oppose reform because it has a (D) label on it.

X said...

alex, I thought you had reformed. bad schtick is still bad schtick.

Dante said...

And this is how Greens, and by extension Liberals, become labelled as nutty.

Dante said...

Hey, Inga. I'm wondering when you are going to let us know how well the country will be doing four years from now, since you have voted for your golden god?

What's unemployment going to look like, Median household income, and GDP?

Come on, Allie Oop, take a stand! Be Accountable! You CAN do it!

garage mahal said...

What's unemployment going to look like, Median household income, and GDP?

What happened in Massachusetts?

Dante said...

The moderates are sick & tired of these GOP governors who petulantly oppose reform because it has a (D) label on it.

Maybe they are tired of people telling them their position, and what they believe in. Who knows? Maybe moderates do not like the Obamao telling them how to live their lives.

On the other hand, maybe they do. I don't even know what "Moderate" means. Glad you do. Please, do tell us, so we can all know and Rs can win the next election.

Dante said...

What happened in Massachusetts?

Who cares? I want Inga to be held accountable. She continues to say the doom and gloom isn't going to happen. I want her to stick by some objective measures of health of the US. Oh, and we also need to add "DEBT" in there.

Alex said...

As usual conservatives have no answers about how to reduce health care costs. This is what it's all about. You get everyone on health insurance and reduce costs.

mccullough said...

Alex,

The best way to reduce health care costs is to get everyone to convert to Christian Scientists

X said...

once people start ignoring the Obamacare law they'll look around and wonder what other stupid laws aren't worth following. I predict taxes.

Big Mike said...

This is how tea partiers get the reputation "nutty."

There are no nuts on left? Read your own comment threads!

Calypso Facto said...

Totally ignoring the unconstitutionality of the issue.

Perhaps you can point me to the court ruling your referencing, leslyn?

....

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Shite said...

Walker is doing the smart thing.

This thing has a bad smell to it. Better to let the feds fuck it up, and they will, than to get involved in something you may have hard time getting out of later.

I do get a kick out of the Farmer dude calling for Kumbaya. Not a chance, now or ever.

Dante said...

Like you were just saying, the people have spoken.

Maybe because something is fundamentally broken with the system?

When the system finally makes a right call, it's amazing, but it continues to make so many bad ones?

That's from a personal accountability perspective, and a competition perspective, mind you. Not a State Union perspective in which the Unions elect the people who determine the workers' salaries and perks, that is, how much they are going to take from everyone else.

Dante said...

As usual conservatives have no answers about how to reduce health care costs. This is what it's all about. You get everyone on health insurance and reduce costs.

The obvious answer is to increase the demand for health care services. That will reduce costs!

phx said...

I don't even know what "Moderate" means. Glad you do. Please, do tell us, so we can all know and Rs can win the next election.

That's a reasonable plea. It's also for us to know and you to find out.

Big Mike said...

Knock off the whining and make shit happen.

That's what Democrats always expect, isn't it? Democrats will put their party first and the people second because they can always count on the Republican "Daddy party" to suck it up and try to make things work anyway. Maybe it's time to sit on our hands and let the consequences play out.

After all, in the closing days of the campaign Harry Reid grandly announced that he had no intention of working Romney, should Romney win. Why on earth does Boehner hold out the olive branch? Maybe he should treat Obama the same way Reid said he'd treat Romney?

Just askin'

It's always hard to make ends meet, no matter who's in office.

But it's become quantitatively more difficult since Obama took office, and the cold, hard equations say that it's going to get much, much worse in the years ahead. My heart goes out to the miners of Appalachia, given Obama's announced intention to shut down their source of livelihood so he and his greens can sit in expensive, air conditoned condos in big Eastern cities and boast of their success in the "war on coal." I doubt you can appreciate what "tough" is, Farmer, if you haven't been there.

It's always a pain in the ass to run a business, no matter who's in office. Government always gets in the way, no matter who's in office.

Again, any idiot except a Democrat can see that it's become quantitatively worse since Obama took office, and the pile of regulations that were waiting on his reelection will make it worse yet. This is, quite literally, the worst small business environment since the Depression. And heading downhill.

Complain about the policies. That's fair enough. Fight against them - again, fair enough.

Oh! Thank you sir! Tears of gratitude are pouring out of my eyes and threatening to short out my keyboard.

But stop acting like the sky is falling.

But what if it is? Just because we say it is doesn't mean it's not.

We didn't elect Obama dictator - he's gone in 4 years no matter what.

Are you sure he knows that? I've never seen any president make such a heavy use of regulations and executive orders to get his way. He has not been shy about his intention to radically overhaul the American economy, notwithstanding his admitted innumeracy and obvious lack of understanding about finance, business, and elementary economics. I think we're going to be ten or fifteen years digging out from the mess.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong, Farmer, but I think it's you who's wrong.

Dante said...

Garage at 1:08 cherry picks some information. The very next paragraph:

But the more modest increases aren't because doctors or insurers are charging less. Faced with the 2014 implementation of health care reform, employers are making a greater effort to control their costs by shifting more of the expense and risk on to their employees.

Here is the per capita expenditure on Health Care 2008 - 2010:

7,720 7,960 8,362

Meanwhile, people are making LESS money, and so the per person costs are actually higher.

Be a little honest. Here is a quotation from you, incidentally:

"Probably going to be . . . Walker supporters after this revelation. But I still . . . think Wisconsin likes corrupt pathological liars."

From Garage Statement here

Dante said...

That's a reasonable plea. It's also for us to know and you to find out.

Well, if I were to look at your actions, I would say it is taking from middle class producers and giving it to people who sit on their asses. All the while keeping the wealthy wealthy.

The Farmer said...

mccullough said...
The Farmer,

The best way to have HHS regs and some Obamacare provisions to be changed is for the governors to say they are not running the exchanges and are not expanding Medicaid.

It's the only leverage left to get good changes to the healthcare bill. So the governors saying they aren't doing it is the best course of action to take. No one is quitting or giving in. Obama will have to come to the table and agree to some important changes or he won't be able to implement Obamacare.


If that's the result, great, but that's sure not how Walker is portraying it, and it seems like a long shot at best.

Shite said...
I do get a kick out of the Farmer dude calling for Kumbaya. Not a chance, now or ever.


I'm calling for people who are acting like maniacs to grow up. But by all means, take the same route the lefties in Wisconsin did and good luck to you.

Alex said...

Can you imagine the explosion of type-2 diabetes with the obesity crisis? That is gonna explode costs!

The Farmer said...

Big Mike, too much there to respond to everything but

1. Spare me the victimhood talk about tough times. I don't know your story and you don't know mine. And they're both irrelevant in terms of policy. It's a cheap attempt to gain the higher ground by insinuating that you have personal experience of tough times and anyone who disagrees with you doesn't. I'm sure it works a lot of the time for you too, but you're barking up the wrong tree trying to peddle that crapola to me.

2. As it happens, I've owned my own business for 26 years and it's turned a healthy profit for the past 21. I've never seen the point in whining about who's in office. My business is going to keep going regardless of that. If your business sinks or swims based on who is President over a 4-8 year term, you're an idiot and you deserve to go out of business. If you sincerely believe that any President can or will will change the face of capitalism to the point where the sky is falling and everybody's going out of business, you're an idiot. And no, the sky isn't falling; you're acting hysterical. Man up. It's patriotic to fight for your beliefs, and to advocate for candidates who you support and even to complain about bullshit policies, but it's un-American to whine and act like a sore loser.

We weren't on the verge of a fascist police state when Reagan and Bush were President, and the socialists aren't taking over now that Obama's in office. Stop acting like a ninny.

EMD said...


As usual conservatives have no answers about how to reduce health care costs. This is what it's all about. You get everyone on health insurance and reduce costs.


Post-election Alex, version 4.???

Alex said...

EMD - the election shook me to my core. I can no longer continue as I was holding those positions. Doesn't mean I'm a leftist, but I have to consider other options. Like health care reform.

Lil Soldier said...

LOL THIS DUMBASS SAYS THE STATE WILL NOT COMPLY AND SET UP AN EXCHANGE...BUT THEN STATED HE WILL LET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RUN OUR EXCHANGE. AGAINST SOCIALIST ACTIVITIES...BUT ITS OK AS LONG AS HE DOESNT PAY FOR IT. THIS GUY IS SINCERELY THE DUMBEST POLITICIAN IN HISTORY LMAO. GOOD RIDDANCE NEXT ELECTION LOSER. ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THE STUPID LOOK ON HIS FACE IN EVERY PIC. LOL

Dante said...

We weren't on the verge of a fascist police state when Reagan and Bush were President, and the socialists aren't taking over now that Obama's in office.

No, they have been doing it for decades. Socialism keeps marching along, squeezing and squeezing the middle class, but never touching the wealthy.

Shite said...

Farmer: "I'm calling for people who are acting like maniacs to grow up. But by all means, take the same route the lefties in Wisconsin did and good luck to you. "

How's this: Shove it all the way up, Old MacDonald.

Obamacare needs to fail. Controversy can help. How it can be assisted to fail is to stonewall it at every turn.

By Walker and other governors refusing to take part, it legitimizes resistance and keeps the partisan hysteria high, which is what I want.

chickelit said...

garage mahal asks:
What happened in Massachusetts?

It spawned an army of Tituses

gadfly said...

From the Fort Wayne News-Sentinel:

Don't give in to the illusion of autonomy. It is a false argument the advocates make that, because the federal government will set up the exchange if the state doesn’t, doing the job ourselves would amount to more autonomy and a victory for “states’ rights.” But it would be illusory autonomy. States’ rights do not come from federal edicts or coercion. Jumping off a building at the point of a gun is not the exercise of freedom.

As Mario Loyola points out in National Review, allowing states “to be deputized as instruments of federal policy is just as bad as bowing to federal commandeering of state agencies, which is unconstitutional.” State governors “should be under no illusions: You are not preserving one iota of state autonomy by setting up your own Obamacare exchange. On the contrary, you are letting the feds deputize you as instruments of federal policy.”

No matter how the exchanges are set up, no matter who is charge, Obamacare is not going to be anything but expensive for individuals, deadly to economic development and a nightmare for the state’s public officials.

Applebee’s restaurants have already announced massive layoffs because of Obamacare’s costs. Expect many more similar stories. Indiana has already lost jobs because of the medical-device tax used to partly pay for Obamacare. Keep watching for equally disturbing news.

Obamacare is going to be a mess. But it’s the federal government’s mess, so let it take the responsibility and the blame when it becomes clear what a mistake it was.

Big Mike said...

Obamacare needs to fail. Controversy can help. How it can be assisted to fail is to stonewall it at every turn.

I disagree that Obamacare "needs to fail." The numbers say that it will fail unless it introduces healthcare rationing. This is not the time or place to show why it must necessarily lead to rationing, but the equations don't lie.

@Farmer, I'm not from Appalachia myself. Are you of the opinion that Republicans cannot feel sympathy towards the working poor? Maybe you need to adjust your world view.

And if you're really a small business owner who's looking forward to the next four years then you must own a gun shop since they're nearly the only ones whose businesses are booming (pun intended).

damikesc said...

LOL THIS DUMBASS SAYS THE STATE WILL NOT COMPLY AND SET UP AN EXCHANGE...BUT THEN STATED HE WILL LET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RUN OUR EXCHANGE. AGAINST SOCIALIST ACTIVITIES...BUT ITS OK AS LONG AS HE DOESNT PAY FOR IT. THIS GUY IS SINCERELY THE DUMBEST POLITICIAN IN HISTORY LMAO. GOOD RIDDANCE NEXT ELECTION LOSER. ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THE STUPID LOOK ON HIS FACE IN EVERY PIC. LOL

Being unable to use a shift key properly makes criticism of somebody's intellect amusing.

leslyn said...

Agree, damikesc.

@Calypso Facto: Wisconsin Constitution Art. IV, Sec. 15.

uncompassionateconservative said...

a

uncompassionateconservative said...

Garage - according to my paycheck, my insurance premium went up 30% in 2011. CNN can pound sand.

Inga - If all the sane people move to Madison, where will the Madisonians live?

Alex - and by your hypothesis they're going to move to endorse the petulant Obama? We do have an answer to lower health care costs - Tort Reform and decrease government funding. Quit paying the lawyers so much. Quit paying companies to help fill out government forms [Hover-Round, chairs that go up stairs, diabetes supplies, catheters, and etc] Just as there is a higher education bubble due to the federal money spout, there is a medical cost bubble.

Ann - Did you read the article about nullification? Remember - this is the same Journal Sentinel that continued to claim there was no out of state union money involved in the Madison protests even after you and Meade had photographed their truck trailers parked nearby. Please read the article before linking to it. I'm guessing by your post that you didn't read it or you didn't take time to deconstruct it to its facts.

Jake Diamond said...

This is how tea partiers get the reputation nutty.

One of many, many ways!

Michael The Magnificent said...

"So, there is no federal law? States can just ignore federal law?"

So, there is no constitution? Democrats can just ignore the constitution?

FIFY

Michael The Magnificent said...

You people who are patting Walker on the back, do you live in Wisconsin?

Yes.

I'm just wondering if you'll actually be affected by the outcome of letting the federal government run our state's insurance exchange.

You have no idea how ruinous this will be to me, which is why I have opposed meddlesome do-gooder fascists from passing Obamacare from the very beginning.

Just to give you an idea. I own a small business. The cost of our premiums shot up 33%, as did our yearly deductible, as a result of Obamacare being signed into law. In real dollars, that's an extra $3400 out of my pocket, every year. As more of the mandates hit, I expect that number to shoot up again, at which point a health insurance policy may become unaffordable to me.

In other words, I cannot afford your meddlesome help. Stay the fuck out of my affairs, and out of my state.