September 2, 2012

Is Paul Ryan a "scumbag" for lying about his marathon time?

That's the sort of thing lawprof Tung Yin is seeing on Facebook. 

He's assuming it's a lie, because how can you misremember something like that? On the other hand, why would you lie about something that's not going to be believed and therefore is only going to make you look bad?

But these people who are excoriating Ryan for lying about sports... what did they say about Bill Clinton back in the old lying-about-sex days? Yin has 3 reasons why Clinton's lie was worse, and I think it obviously was.

So does that mean people who excused Bill Clinton need to shut up about Paul Ryan's marathon time? I have 3 answers:

1. You're never going to get people to stop characterizing the evidence to help or hurt whomever they are inclined to help or hurt. Like a semen stain on a blue dress, it has permeated the fabric of our politics.

2. Bill Clinton was cornered and compelled to speak. His lie was self-defense under attack, and he was trying to keep his presidency from collapsing because of something only tangentially related to the presidential enterprise. Paul Ryan volunteered information, boasting about something that wasn't true in an effort to win our favor. Very different motivations, and we should judge them with particularity and with a subtlety beyond crude epithets like "scumbag."

3. Paul Ryan is currently running for Vice President, and we need to examine him from all angles. He'd better be great, regardless of whether somebody else is less great. Bill Clinton's Lewinsky debacle occurred long ago (though it retains currency to the extent that his party, especially at a convention where it will preen about its service to females, employs him as a mouthpiece*).
________________________________________

* Yes, I did intend to put that image in your head.

189 comments:

Chuck66 said...

The only people upset up Ryan's misstatement are those who are already planning to vote for Obama.

Do you really think any real-world people care about a mispoken word on the Hugh Hewitt show?

Jay said...

Paul Ryan is currently running for President,

He is?

Jay said...

Notice how Obama has magically never told a lie to the silly people screaming "liar"

Jay said...

Bill Clinton was cornered and compelled to speak.

Interesting tidbit from the Steve Jobs biography. He was on the phone with Clinton and said to him I don't know if all of this [Lewinsky stuff] is true, but if it is you have to tell the truth.

Dead silence on the other end of the phone...

chickelit said...

Palinization continues. The topic is running even.
Next comes SNL skit

Chuck66 said...

I am still waiting for Obama to close Gitmo and end "illegal warrantless domestic spying" like he promised. Surely he wasn't lying.

kentuckyliz said...

Lying is fine, according to the Alvarez decision.

wef said...

The only real question with regard to Clinton is, Did he or did he not rape Juanita Broaddrick? As related by her on Dateline NBC on 24 February 1999.

That's it. Everything else is bull shit. Either the United States had a rapist as its president, or the man was terribly defamed and wronged.

Now you can shrug your shoulders and say, "Who knows?" And, "That's old hat." And avoid the question, but that this simple question goes unanswered by the political class is the single most damning indictment of the regime.

kentuckyliz said...

I am so proud of myself for tying in a recent SCOTUS decision, since this is a blawg, and I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

Ann Althouse said...

"'Paul Ryan is currently running for President' He is?"

LOL. Being a lawprof, I could defend that statement. Being a comedian, I could assert my aversion to vice. But I have corrected the glitch.

chickelit said...

Althouse revealingly wrote: Paul Ryan is currently running for President, and we need to examine him from all angles.

So an ideology is running for President?

I still like how none of this attacks Romney.

Why doesn't anyone find dirt on Romney? Yeah, they'd like to vet the whole Mormon Church thing, but that would mean opening the door to Rev. Wright's church and BLT.

Chuck66 said...

wef, there is absolutly no doubt at all, not even the tinest bit, in my mind that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick in the Little Rock hotel room.

And he never denied it. He was only asked about it once, and he said something about his lawyers having already responded.

phx said...

The "glitch"?

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Paul Ryan volunteered information, boasting about something that wasn't true in an effort to win our favor.

This. Because we should always pick our Presidents based on marathon times, golf handicaps, free throw percentages, RBI's, etc., etc., etc.

dbp said...

"On the other hand, why would you lie about something that's not going to be believed and therefore is only going to make you look bad?"

I am not so sure about the "not going to be believed" bit on two counts:

I've run a few marathons and Ryan looks like the kind of guy who could with sufficient training run a sub 3 marathon. People ask how I did after a race and have no clue what a good or bad time might be.

aronamos said...

Yes, I did intend to put that image in your head.

That's what HE said.

John Burgess said...

I believe there's an Internet meme that addresses this:

Haters gonna hate

Yisroel said...

maybe it was a composite of different marathons

Jason (the commenter) said...

People make it sound as if Ryan promised to close Gitmo, and then didn't.

chickelit said...

phx said...
The "glitch"?

A little problem with the machine: glitch.

America's Politico said...

What I am really puzzled is that people, like Gail Collins, Mo Do, Andy Sully, Josh TPM, The Kos, etc. say is that: POTUS Obama is a Scholar.

What is not scholarship something that HAS TO BE demonstrated via something concrete?

We have no idea of the Obama scholarship. His grades are not shown (How he got to Transfer to Columbia is not known, as an example). PLUS, we do not know what he actually produced at Harvard Law S. Most people consider Presidency of HLS Student has not a scholarship, but Gail, MoDo, Andy, Josh TPM, do?

SO, what are we to do? Obama is a scholar, just like a company that has a vapor-ware to show investors.

Right? Wrong?

phx said...

If you were interviewing someone for a low-level supervisory position say, an office manager at 30K or 40K, and you seemingly caught them in a lie about their sports accomplishments or something childish like that, would you count that against them?

Shouting Thomas said...

How many different people have posted as America's Politico?

garage mahal said...

Republicans don't lie, they just misremember! And what about Clenis????

wyo sis said...

It's insanity of a particular type for a politician to purposely lie about anything in these days of fact checking. There is no forgiveness and no mercy.
I'm not a runner, so I don't know if this is possible, but I have never been able to remember things like times and amounts of small things. I deal with numbers so much I just can't keep them all straight in my head. I always have to look it up to be sure. It's possible that's what happened here.?

Freder Frederson said...

The only people upset up Ryan's misstatement are those who are already planning to vote for Obama

Misstatement?! It was a bald-faced lie. I could understand being off by a few minutes, but nobody "misremembers" running a marathon an hour quicker than he actually did.

That being said, I am much more concerned about the and deceptive statements he made during his acceptance speech. The man obviously has problems with telling the truth.

(And note the link is to Fox.com, not some lying MSM site or liberal blog.)

Chuck66 said...

phx, if I was hiring someone for a job, and it turned out he was speaking to his local Lions Club around the same time, and he made a minor misstatement about some number, I don't see how I could hold that against him.

Shouting Thomas said...

Obama lied about closing Gitmo.

Where does this rank in the universe of lies?

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
(And note the link is to Fox.com, not some lying MSM site or liberal blog


Good for you.

Now let's examine that silly opinion article as it stresses these alleged 'lies'

Page Not Found

OOPS

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

That being said, I am much more concerned about the and deceptive statements he made during his acceptance speech. The man obviously has problems with telling the truth.


And yet you, nor anyone reading, can factually point out these "deceptive statements"

Why do you think that is?

Maguro said...

Joe Biden just used Neil Kinnock's marathon time, which is much more ethical.

Chuck66 said...

Oh oh, the Democrats are getting worried. If they obsess about something so minor, you know they realize they know what is coming this November.

Jay said...

but nobody "misremembers" running a marathon an hour quicker than he actually did.

Really?

Do people "misremember" spending Christmas in Cambodia?

phx said...

Chuck66 you improved my analogy but I'm not sure that "made a minor misstatement" is an improved interpretation of what happened.

Maybe it is, I confess I don't know enough. But someone made a reasonable sounding argument that it was hard it imagine this as an unintentional "misstatement" given that it was his only marathon, and the correct time was so widely off the mark from what he said.

I'm not saying it's a slam-dunk one way or another. People engage in a lot of wishful thinking one way or another over these kinds of questions. I think it deserves a sober look and discussion.

paul a'barge said...

We need to examine him from all angles

like you did to Barack Obama when you voted for him in 2008?

Please.

ricpic said...

garbage told me that Freder told him that shiloh told him that Paul Ryan is not only a scumbag, he's a scumbag on steroids. Hey, I just report, you decide.

MadisonMan said...

The only people upset up Ryan's misstatement are those who are already planning to vote for Obama.

Agreed. Why talk about the record of the current WH occupant if you can instead focus on what the VP candidate says about a marathon finish time?

I mean, they're of equal importance, right?

The Drill SGT said...

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...
This. Because we should always pick our Presidents based on marathon times, golf handicaps, free throw percentages, RBI's, etc., etc., etc.


Ceratinly the ability to throw out the first pitch like a man ought to be a criteria for President.

On the basic issue, yeah he lied, it bothers me. Guys lie about their sports, sexual, and combat prowess. I'd a guy thing to impress chicks and get laid. Ryan is trying to impress chicks (and other voters), but it does bother me.

Because it was dumb. A spur of the moment, terminally dumb, meaningless lie. I expect my President to be a better liar (and bluffer) when he deals with Vlad (who is world class)

Freder Frederson said...

nor anyone reading, can factually point out these "deceptive statements"

You are willfully ignorant, aren't you? I will give you one example and if you can explain how it wasn't deceptive, I will list the remaining ones for you.

Why on earth did he speak about the closing of the Janesville GM plant as if it were somehow Obama's fault? It was struggling for many years, GM announced the final closure in October 2008, and production ceased on December 23, 2008. The final workers shuttered the plant in April of 2009.

Even if the shutdown was somehow Obama's fault, it is the height of hypocrisy to complain about the shutdown of an automobile plant when Ryan was willing to let GM and Chrysler die.

Chuck66 said...

phx, so your assertion is that potential employers should look at everything an applicant has said out in public, and finds one thing wrong, eliminate that person from job consideration?

What do you think about Obama saying we have "57 states"?

Or John Kerry saying he hunted deer "with my trusty shotgun"?

Paco Wové said...

"(And note the link is to Fox.com, not some lying MSM site or liberal blog.)"

1. The URL goes to something labelled as "opinion", not "news". For what that's worth.

2. The URL is broken, Freder. 404 Not Found. Did you even try it?

Paddy O said...

yes, and Biden is from a blue-collar family and Hillary was under sniper fire while Obama's books apparently are full of "composite" realities.

The compare lies game will be a winner for sure.

Freder Frederson said...

Do people "misremember" spending Christmas in Cambodia?

When did I ever defend Kerry's lie?

AprilApple said...

So the only way a corrupt democrat party can win is through desperate media matters dumpster diving. Democrats lie about all sorts of things all the time.
Why just yesterday Obama lied about lying.
With Ryan, suddenly bad faith democrats are concerned. Whatever.


phx said...

Chuck66 you aren't really reading my posts, are you? You're just kind of skimming through them?

Freder Frederson said...

yes, and Biden is from a blue-collar family

I wouldn't go there. Paul Ryan would also like you to believe he is from a blue collar family and worked blue collar jobs to survive.

Paddy O said...

If Ryan didn't lie in his speech, and people say he was lying, are they lying about his lying? They're very free in lying about the lying, so much so that I suspect they don't really care much about lying at all.

Just as they don't really care about the poor.

It's all about power. For its own sake, to feel better about themselves, to feel better than others.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
Why on earth did he speak about the closing of the Janesville GM plant as if it were somehow Obama's fault?


He didn't.

Next question.

Curious George said...

Wait, this is regarding a marathon that he had run 20 years ago? And it's a "lie" if he remembers incorrectly the time he had? And we are comparing this with CLinton?

Wow.

And Althouse's "Paul Ryan volunteered information, boasting about something that wasn't true in an effort to win our favor." Ryan did not volunteer information, he answered a question that was asked.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
You are willfully ignorant, aren't you?


I'm not the one posting broken links and making statements I can't factually explain or defend.

You are.

Guess what that says about you?

Paco Wové said...

"I expect my President to be a better liar (and bluffer) when he deals with Vlad (who is world class)"

Exactly. You're auditioning for the Big Show here, Paul. Show us you can lie with the best of them!

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
Paul Ryan would also like you to believe he is from a blue collar family and worked blue collar jobs to survive.


He isn't?

Because they left took to the Internet the other day to boast that Ryan's college was paid for in part by Social Security benefits.

Rich people do that sort of thing all the time, don't they?

Or were those leftists lying?

AprilApple said...

If Ryan corrected his own statement, what's the big deal?
I don't see Obama out there begging for forgiveness at every lie and broken promise he has made.
Oh that's right, you blind faithful adore him regardless.

Pathetic.

Freder Frederson said...

1. The URL goes to something labelled as "opinion", not "news". For what that's worth.

2. The URL is broken, Freder. 404 Not Found. Did you even try it?


1. So? What's your point. Opinions can't be based on facts?

2. Sorry, try this one

Chuck66 said...

How did Obama pay for his college? We know he didn't work.

Paddy O said...

"I wouldn't go there."

I know you wouldn't. The lies game only works if we focus on one side.

I'll go there, though. It shows your hypocrisy. You don't care about truth at all. You just play with words like truth and lies in order to win points.

You excuse lies when they are on your own side. You want lies. You thrive on lies. You're so steeped in lies you don't even know what truth it, and it doesn't matter to you.

Let's talk about Obama's lies. Let's talk about Biden and Hillary.

I remember Obama lying being a feature to his campaign, saying things that no one expected him to actually do or believe.

He lied about gay marriage. We're just not sure which position was the lie.

You want him to lie, so why should anyone believe your outrage now?

Amexpat said...

IMO, at this point not an issue. Ryan doesn't come across as a narcissist or braggart, so it doesn't conform to the image that he projects.

On the other hand, Gore got a lot of flak for his inventing the Internet comment because it played into an image that he was full of himself. Quayle came across as a light weight, so any errors he made were easy to ridicule.

Jay said...

And so we go to Freeder's link and we see:

Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin,



Ryan did not blame the shutdown on Obama.

Period.

That is a lie.

Next:

Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.


1. What Ryan said was factually correct so the author quickly moves to a deception.

See, Ryan didn't embrace Obama's "savings" which
are cuts. Totally deceptive there.

But hey freeper, you're like so not willfully ignorant and stuff!

phx said...

I don't know if it's a big deal or not. I'm supporting Obama and Biden. But it's challenging to think of this question in terms of its relevance.

To me it's like Romney saying he didn't remember cutting off some kids' hair 30 or 40 years ago. It doesn't seem at all likely on this side of dementia that you would ever forget that you did that to someone.

In both cases though it seems you have to give them both the benefit of the doubt, at least publicly. Honorable men and so forth.

But if in your heart you think both of them are lying how important is that? Where do you stand on that kind of a lie?

Thinking out loud here.

Pogo said...

I do not believe anything the left produces about the GOP, even audio.

They're all manipulative liars. Wouldn't be surprised this is a cut-n-paste job.

If he said it and he lied, bad on him. But more likely he's not a running time fanatic and fucked up.

Chuck66 said...

Good point on homosexual marriage. Obama lied about supporting traditional marriage.

Known that his brother, father, and grandfather were/are all polygamists, I image he supports that too.

Jay said...

Then we get this silliness:

Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.


Actually, that is what Obama said, by any fair interpretation and millions of people have taken it that way.

Period.

Paco Wové said...

"Opinions can't be based on facts?"

Sometimes they are. Frequently they're not. Especially for self-identified "radicals" (e.g., Robert Cook).

AprilApple said...

Once again, Ryan did not blame Obama for the Janesville GM plant closing, but in fact pointed out that Obama stood there and promised to keep in open for another 100 years. You know - just and other campaign promise with an expiration date.

As usual, the bad-faithers don't listen and refuse to comprehend.

Pogo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck66 said...

phx, what do you think about Obama lying about closing Gitmo, ending illegal warrantless domestic spying. And what about him running as the peace candidate, but he launches missles into Pakistan to kill brown skinned people who have been convicted of no crimes?

LarsPorsena said...

The run time thing is a slip of the tongue but if he lies about what he can bench press...that's a whole different thing.

Pogo said...

The number of lies and omissions Obama has in his past and even among those he put in his memoirs apparently did not rise to the threshold of concern for the left, but the running time of the Veep?

Hang him!

edutcher said...

To answer the original question, of course not.

And one would think the Demos would save their ire; after all, they're the party of scumbags.

Ah did nawt have sex with that woman, Mizz Lewinsky.

It depends on whut the meanin' of is is.

Jay said...

Another actual lie from freeder's link:

Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling


Complete & utter bullshit.

S&P put out an actual statement which one could read which said no such thing.

Further, as a point of fact, the downgrade happened after the debt ceiling was raised.

So as I said, freeder, nor anyone reading, can actually point out any Ryan "lies"

When asked to do so, they point to lies as their "proof"

Carnifex said...

I would take up jogging /running if I ever drove past one that was grinning like they were having a good time. Alas, all I see are grimaces, and snarls. I'll stick with Chris Christie's method. Just be bigger and meaner than everything else, and there is no need to run.

Besides, I'd be an equal match for a snail.

I don't worry about either side calling the other liar. It is implied in that they are politicians. Much like used car dealers, or lawyers.

Freder Frederson said...

Rich people do that sort of thing all the time, don't they?

Yes they do. There is no doubt that the Ryan family's economic situation was strained after his father died when he Paul Ryan was 16. But he and his family were hardly destitute, and he inherited a significant trust fund (and like Kerry, married very well).

Jay said...

the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling

Bullshit:

We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

So you are willfully ignorant, right freeper?

Pogo said...

Obama, Pelosi and Reid have intimate daily meetings about the Next Big Lie they need the press to tell.

And then the press dutifully reports those lies.

Romney didn't pay taxes!!!.
Fuckers.

Curious George said...

Joe Biden: "I went to law school on a full academic scholarship, the only one in my class to have a full academic scholarship. In the first year in the law, I decided I didn’t want to be in law school and ended up in the bottom two-thirds of my class and then decided I wanted to stay, went back to law school, and, in fact, ended up in the top half of my class. I won the international moot-court competition. I was the outstanding student in the political-science department at the end of my year. I graduated with three degrees from undergraduate school and 165 credits — only needed 123 credits. And I would be delighted to sit down and compare my IQ to yours."

Joe Biden did not graduate with three degrees, he had one. And he was 76th in a class of 85, which for you math challenged liberals is not in the "top half."

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
. But he and his family were hardly destitute,


Hysterical.

Now "blue collar" must equal "destitute"

Idiot.

Lindsey Meadows said...

Who cares. Ryan's lies on so many Other things kinda dwarfs this. My dad used to walk up hill in 5 feet of snow to school barefoot and both ways so long ago I gave up on men telling the truth about their abilities to do the physically impossible. I don't cut him any slack whatsoever in outright lying about things that would cause us to want to vote for him. This marathon thing isn't one of them.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

Yes they do


Um, no they don't.

You could ask say, Kerry's kids, or Clinton's.

Idiot.

Chuck66 said...

Or Biden lying about being in North Carolina when he was really in Virginia.

Jay said...

Lindsey Meadows said...
Who cares. Ryan's lies on so many Other things kinda dwarfs this


You can't point out any actual lies.

Paco Wové said...

"But he and his family were hardly destitute"

So Ryan has been saying he grew up destitute? Cool. Got a (working) link?

AprilApple said...

Obama Once Opposed Lifting Debt Ceiling.

Chuck66 said...

Obama lied about voting NO on the bill in Illinois that would require medical care given to babies who survive abortions.

Freder Frederson said...

S&P put out an actual statement which one could read which said no such thing.

Complete and utter bullshit? I would like to hear your definition of bullshit.

"We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process."

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Teacher's question: What is 7 times 3?

Student's answer: 23

Teacher to student: What have I told you people about lying in class? Report immediately to the Principles office. Out. Now.


So, is this English bastardization what the Progressives really want?

Matthew Sablan said...

"only to correct his misstatement later."

How long did it take to correct? That I think matters.

Chuck66 said...

Has Joe Biden correct his "misstatment" on being in North Carolina yet?

Freder Frederson said...


"So you are willfully ignorant, right freeper?"

Apparently you think "and" means "ignore everything before this"

Marshal said...

Freder Frederson said...
Why on earth did he speak about the closing of the Janesville GM plant as if it were somehow Obama's fault?


Here is Ryan's statement immediately before the one Frederson claims meant Ryan is blaming the closure on Obama:


When [Obama] talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

So Frederson's claim that Ryan sought to fault Obama for the closure is obviously wrong. The proximity of that sentence to the one lefties are relying on makes it clear those who excerpted the one sentence [Ezra Klein among others] to support the allegation are lying.

So Freder is clearly wrong, but is he lying or merely ignorant? Given the information clearly proving Ryan's allegation was not what Freder continuously and erroneously claims has been posted on this blog 15 times without effect on his wildly fanciful assertions the evidence weighs heavily towards liar rather than ignorant fool.

But in the end does it really matter? Neither the liar nor the fool deserve respect.

Shouting Thomas said...

The government is supposed to decide whether factories continue to operate or fold?

Matthew Sablan said...

Freder: I actually just addressed the media failure of fact-checking frenzy over Ryan's speech this morning. How quaint it works out that way.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...


Apparently you think "and" means "ignore everything before this"


You apparently think ignoring whole parts of paragraphs is an argument.

purplepenquin said...

Do people "misremember" spending Christmas in Cambodia?

I agree. Ryan has no more honor nor integrity than Kerry.



chickelit said...

@Marshal: Thank you for taking the time to destroy Freder's attempted misdirection. I thought to do the same. Most of us know FF is just lying scum, presented here to provide some sort of "balance."

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

Complete and utter bullshit? I would like to hear your definition of bullshit.


I already pointed that out.

Claiming: "
the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling
"

Is a lie.

You are a liar.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

Apparently you think "and" means "ignore everything before this"


I love that projection.

You realize you ignoring "and" doesn't make the statement a fact, right?

I mean, even someone like you can can grasp that, correct?

Matthew Sablan said...

Er... Again: Seeing as Ryan corrected his statement, I don't see why this is a big issue. It was, at most, some bravado over running. At least, an honest mistake.

Nathan Alexander said...

but nobody "misremembers" running a marathon an hour quicker than he actually did.


To me it's like Romney saying he didn't remember cutting off some kids' hair 30 or 40 years ago. It doesn't seem at all likely on this side of dementia that you would ever forget that you did that to someone.


These statements clearly indicate the writers do not understand how the human brain works, nor how memory works.

Here are some starting points:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_memory_process

http://www.human-memory.net/processes.html

But the summary is:
Primacy/Recency: you remember earliest events due to their novelty, and recent events due to their proximity.
Your brain cannot hold all memories in its active memory, so there is a process where short-term memory converts to long-term memory. And the less you access the long-term memory, the more it fades or the harder it is to recall without prompting.

It is clear that Paul Ryan was recalling the story, not the actual event.

That may excuse him, or not. I see it as pretty much the same thing as Obama's bragging about his basketball abilities: normal human self-opinion, and no effect on his governing ability.

Liberals seem to think that a Republican politician must be perfect in every single possible way, or else he is a liar, thief, vampire, idiot, and evil mastermind all at once, but Democrat politicians can literally murder, steal, and rape with impunity because they vote the right way on grievance issues.

Liberals/progressives/Democrats should look in the mirror and be ashamed.

garage mahal said...

The government is supposed to decide whether factories continue to operate or fold?

No. Only this one. It's just not open anymore. And Obama!

Jay said...

Shouting Thomas said...
The government is supposed to decide whether factories continue to operate or fold?


Well, the White House did decide which GM dealerships to close.

So in Obamanomics, I guess so.

Matthew Sablan said...

Garage: No one would care that that factory closed if Obama hadn't promised, what was it?, to see it open for 100 more years. This is why you under promise, over deliver.

Jay said...

When you're an actual propagandist, this:

President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.


Is "blaming Obama"!!!! for the factory closing.

Jay said...

freeper and her silly ilk can't seem to grasp that Ryan was making a criticism of Obama's policies, not blaming him for a factory closing.

See, we tried the "if our government is there to support you " to the tune of over $40 billion with GM.

And it failed.

Freeper is left screeching about something nobody said to try and distract from the policy failures.

ricpic said...

Inn Frederworld you're either destitute or corrupt.

phx said...

Liberals seem to think that a Republican politician must be perfect in every single possible way, or else he is a liar, thief, vampire, idiot, and evil mastermind all at once, but Democrat politicians can literally murder, steal, and rape with impunity because they vote the right way on grievance issues.

Everybody doest that Nathan Alexander. Don't be willfully blind.

phx said...

I don't mean "everybody" does that bullshit, but people on both sides do.

garage mahal said...

Ryan also shot a 48 point buck. Er, a 4 or 8 point make that!

hombre said...

Republicans: "We will agree to raise the debt ceiling if you will agree to ...."

Democrats: "Not on your life."

Freder: "Republican stonewalling on the debt ceiling caused the credit rating to be lowered."

Democrat logic.

Freder Frederson said...

See, we tried the "if our government is there to support you " to the tune of over $40 billion with GM.

And it failed.


And how is the Janesville plant an example of that failure? It was closed before the GM bailout and before Obama even took office.

Paco Wové said...

"Everybody doest that Nathan Alexander. Don't be willfully blind."

No, not "everybody". Brainless partisan motormouths seem to do it a lot, though, and project that tendency onto everyone else.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Everybody doest that Nathan Alexander."

And that's why Akin is a political reject and Ted Kennedy was the Liberal Lion.

Matthew Sablan said...

"It was closed before the GM bailout and before Obama even took office."

-- Obama took office after April 2009? News to me. You should tell the White House and Wikipedia to update their information. Who was in the interim after Bush?

Freder Frederson said...

Democrat logic.

So is Republican logic, "if you don't agree to everything we demand, it is your fault"?

Seeing Red said...

--That's it. Everything else is bull shit. Either the United States had a rapist as its president, or the man was terribly defamed and wronged.

Now you can shrug your shoulders and say, "Who knows?" And, "That's old hat." And avoid the question, but that this simple question goes unanswered by the political class is the single most damning indictment of the regime.---


33 years, I intend to be alive when the records open.

Freder Frederson said...

Obama took office after April 2009?

For a bunch of business geniuses, you sure don't know much about shutting down major manufacturing plants. GM announced the closure in October 2008. The last cars rolled off the assembly line in December 2008. After the last car rolls off the line, you just can't turn off the lights and lock the doors. It takes a few months to shutter the plant.

phx said...

"Everybody doest that Nathan Alexander. Don't be willfully blind."

No, not "everybody". Brainless partisan motormouths seem to do it a lot, though, and project that tendency onto everyone else.


Quite true. You might have missed my self-correction.

Matthew Sablan said...

So, what would have happened if the plant got more orders/work in, say, January 2009? Want me to tell you what would have happened?

Obama would hold a campaign rally in front of the plant and fact checkers everywhere would be checking off a "promise kept" tally for him.

Obama promised something and failed to deliver. Own it.

Hagar said...

I am not a marathon runner, or any other kind of runner for that matter, so I cannot say if the memory of Ryan's time 20-odd years ago had ought to be "seared, seared" into his mind or not.

However, what was the circumstances when he made the statement? And how was it brought to his attention and how did he go about making the correction?

Seems to me the answers to these questions would be important in judging whether it was just a mis-statement or a deliberate lie, but I do not see any information about this in any of the above.

phx said...

And that's why Akin is a political reject and Ted Kennedy was the Liberal Lion.

Right. I specifically said Democrats don't do that, didn't I Matthew?

Don't be obtuse.

garage mahal said...

I wonder what an actual employee at the Janesville plant thinks about this whole affair?

Brad Dutcher, the former GM employee, told MSNBC's Ed Schultz on Friday that he was at the Janesville plant during Obama's visit and that Ryan had told an "outright lie" by implying that Obama had been responsible for the plant's closure.

Dutcher said that Obama "had nothing to do with the decision to close our factory." He added that "there was never a promise made...to keep our plant open. That is completely false."

Freder Frederson said...

So, what would have happened if the plant got more orders/work in, say, January 2009?

This would not have happened.

You really don't know anything about manufacturing do you?

Matthew Sablan said...

"by implying that Obama had been responsible for the plant's closure."

Too bad that wasn't what was implied. Why do Democrats always try to up the ante with supposed moral authority arguing a point not in contention?

hombre said...

So is Republican logic, "if you don't agree to everything we demand, it is your fault"?

Actually no. Republicans who prefer governing to assessing blame, call this an impasse because the parties can't agree and move on.

Democrats, who are incapable of governing, prefer to assess blame.

And you are projecting again.

Democrat logic.

Matthew Sablan said...

Freder: If a work order had come in, that's exactly what would have happened. The simple fact is that there was no work order coming in. Obama, however, seemed to think that his policies would change that. They did not. He made a promise, did not deliver.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

And how is the Janesville plant an example of that failure? It was closed before the GM bailout and before Obama even took office.


The plant closed in April 2009.

GM received a $16 billion dollar loan in December 2008.

Factories re-open all the time.

You can stop doubling down on dumb at any time.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

The Daily Mail explains:

"‘Barack Obama: The Story’ by David Maraniss catalogues dozens of instances in which Obama deviated significantly from the truth in his book ‘Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance’. The 641-page book punctures the carefully-crafted narrative of Obama’s life."

Obama made himself a multi-millionaire selling about 4.5 million copies of his book that helped propel him to the presidency. People took the president's representations at face value. We now know the buyer's of the book were deceived by the "dozens of instances in which Obama deviated significantly from the truth". That phrase, I think, is a nice way of saying the book contains dozens of lie.

The President of the United States effectively turned himself into a multi-millionaire by deceiving those who bought his book. That may not rise to the legal, technical definition of fraud, but it sounds like fraud to this layman's ears.

But Ryan exaggerated his marathon time during a radio interview. That's what is important.

garage mahal said...

So, what would have happened if the plant got more orders/work in, say, January 2009?.

They would have to report to duty in it's sister plant in Tennessee. Which, of course, is Obama's fault.

Hagar said...

and Freder,
the point about that GM plant is that Obama made that speech there, knowing the place was slated for closing, and said he was going to see that reversed so that the plant would be open for a 100 years.

Nothing was done, and the plant is closed.

QED

Matthew Sablan said...

"They would have to report to duty in it's sister plant in Tennessee. Which, of course, is Obama's fault."

-- The plant didn't close until April; many layoffs weren't even announced until February/March. If work had come in, the plant would stay open. Don't be silly.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
For a bunch of business geniuses, you sure don't know much about shutting down major manufacturing plants. GM announced the closure in October 2008. The last cars rolled off the assembly line in December 2008


That would be news to the people working there in April 2009 making actual trucks:

April will mark the end of vehicle production at the Janesville plant that traces its roots to 1919 and the Samson Model M tractor. Chevrolet production started in Janesville in 1923.

The Isuzu line and its employees build about 25 trucks four days a week.


So Idiot, why are you commenting so ignorantly on this topic?

Everything you're posting here is a lie or in service to a lie.

Everything.

Matthew Sablan said...

PS, If you'd read the link I gave you, it has a link to the story Jay just quoted. So, like, I tried to help you.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
For a bunch of business geniuses...The last cars rolled off the assembly line in December 2008


You really, really can't make this type of stupidity up, folks.

If you were going to parody a leftist, freeper would be the exact thing you would do.

jr565 said...

Obama and/or his surrogates have a lot of gall to question the veracity of anyone.
Talk about lies. His who autobiography is full of them, and a lot more eventful than the times of a marathon. Did his surrogates forget that this is common knowledge?

http://www.gingpac.org/obama-lies-about-himself-and-his-family-in-autobiography

or

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2012/06/21/limbaugh-author-crisis-over-new-book-pokes-holes-obamas-memoir

or

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/06/17/Even-When-Attacking-Obama-Buzzfeed-Ben-Smith-Protects-the-Mainstream-Media

And these are not minor lies, but big HUGE lies. Then of course there's the lie that was put out by his literary agent that said he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. (and you wonder why the birthers persist with their stories about how he wasn't born here).

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

And this is not to mention all the lies he's told about what he would do, or the lies he's told about what his opponents positions are.

Just sticking with the lies about personal accomplishements even before become president the guy is a serial fibber. And he sold a book of his "so called" life,chock full of them.

For all the libs on the board that dare to go after Ryan's golf game fib, please address these lies as well.

Freder Frederson said...

I am not a marathon runner, or any other kind of runner for that matter, so I cannot say if the memory of Ryan's time 20-odd years ago had ought to be "seared, seared" into his mind or not.

I used to run (not marathons, but 10Ks and once a ten miler), and although I couldn't tell you exact times for every race, I would certainly be in the ballpark for all of them. Anyone who knows anything about distance running knows that there is a huge difference between a sub-three hour time (which is a very good time for an amateur--Olympic class times are in the 2:05 range) and four hours, which puts you in the middle of the pack of an open marathon. Although I would consider anyone who could run ten minute miles for 26 miles to be in pretty good damn shape.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
For a bunch of business geniuses, you sure don't know much about shutting down major manufacturing plants. GM announced the closure in October 2008. The last cars rolled off the assembly line in December 2008


News:
JANESVILLE — General Motors will end medium-duty truck production in Janesville on April 23,

I'm willing to bet a very large sum of money you're not a "business genius"

Jay said...

Matthew Sablan said...
PS, If you'd read the link I gave you, it has a link to the story Jay just quoted. So, like, I tried to help you


It clearly doesn't care.

When you have an emotional investment in "Ryan lied" actual facts become irrelevant.

The emotional investment is because her and her ilk have no actual policy arguments only slogans.

I read your link. Good stuff. Thanks.

hombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

If work had come in, the plant would stay open.

So Obama should have just faxed over some orders?

Keep straining.

Harold said...

A lot of discussion on marathon times.

I ran a 50 mile race back in 1975 or so (I'd have to look up when), and ran it in 12 or 13 hours or so, I'd have to look up the time.

Sports accomplishments for most are not indelibly inscribed in memory. Especially one time events.

If you run 10K's once a month, I'll bet you remember your best time to a second. I've run a half dozen or so and have no clue of my beat time. I've also been in two mini-triathalons, no clue at all of my times. The important things I remember about the triathalons and 50 miler- I finished.

Bruce Hayden said...

Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.

Except, of course, that they aren't "savings". This is part of the Big Lie. The reality is that health care providers decide whether or not they will, or, indeed, can, provide services at a given price, and don't provide them if they won't or can't. Already, many are at or below the breakeven point with Medicare, and even more often below with Medicaid. So, would they continue to provide the same services, at lower prices, if Medicare reimbursements were to be cut? A very large number of them inevitably make plausible claims that they won't, which is why the seniors on Medicare freak out, and the reimbursement rates are inevitably restored in another part of the budget through what is now known as the "Doc Fix".

The problem for Obama though is that cutting the $716 out of Medicare and put into ObamaCare was required to make the numbers work, so that the legislation could be scored by the CBO to allow it to pass through reconciliation. To state it the other way, if the Dems hadn't stolen the $716 from Medicare to fund ObamaCare, the latter would not have passed into law.

Sure, they always intended to put the $716 billion back in, because they knew that they would have enough Republican votes to do so (very few in Congress are willing to directly deprive seniors of their health care by forcing a lot of health care providers to quite covering Medicare patients).

BTW - the other way that they were going to fill the hole they created in Medicare was through reducing waste and fraud. That is code for the reality of health care rationing, and, not surprisingly, Sarah Palin early called this out as "Death Panels", which we now know is a 15 person group of unelected bureaucrats who get to decide which medical care is allowed and which is inefficient and wasteful.

hombre said...

garage: Brad Dutcher, the former GM employee said ...Ryan had told an "outright lie" by implying that Obama had been responsible for the plant's closure.

Let's give Brad the benefit of the doubt and assume he got his information from Shultz. This would be "garbage in, garbage out."

Ryan never said or implied that Obama was responsible for the closure, only that the plant closed after Obama said it would be open for "100 years."

You know that. Why keep forwarding other lies to make your point? I know. I know. You're a lefty and that's what lefty's do, but it gets old.

Let's talk about why you favor an administration of fiscal child abusers that are heaping debt on our children and grandchildren.

Are you childless?

Howard said...

A politician exaggerated. How shocking! Diametric minions go spastic over every exaggeration, false promise and lie ever told by the opposition. Who said intellectual debate of meaningful issues was dead in America?

Jay said...


Brad Dutcher, the former GM employee, told MSNBC's Ed Schultz on Friday that he was at the Janesville plant during Obama's visit and that Ryan had told an "outright lie" by implying that Obama had been responsible for the plant's closure.


Ryan said or implied no such thing.

Why are you Democrats so stupid?

shiloh said...

No, he's just a compulsive liar. But we already knew that.

hombre said...

Why are you Democrats so stupid?

They may be stupid, but this is just lefty trolls projecting. Their candidate is, Bill Clinton notwithstanding, the most expansive liar in modern presidential politics.

It is a matter of survival to project now, although they are inclined to do it anyway.

garage mahal said...

“I remember President Obama visiting it when he was first running, saying he’ll keep that plant open — one more broken promise,” Ryan said. “One of the reasons that plant got shut down is $4 gasoline. You see, this costs jobs. The president’s terrible energy policies are costing us jobs.”

Lyin Ryan.

Freder Frederson said...

Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.

I agree with you that Obama's Medicare savings can indeed fairly be called a cut. Ryan's harping on this is problematic is not so much whether or not he mischaracterized the proposal, but because he proposed similar cuts, and not through reducing payments to providers, but slashing benefits.

Freeman Hunt said...

If you run 10K's once a month, I'll bet you remember your best time to a second. I've run a half dozen or so and have no clue of my beat time. I've also been in two mini-triathalons, no clue at all of my times. The important things I remember about the triathalons and 50 miler- I finished.

This is true. A couple years ago, I was running a 5k every month. I definitely knew what my best time was then. Now I couldn't even tell you the correct digit of the tens place for the minutes!

I've misremembered my father's marathon times by an hour before.

Hagar said...

Or it could be like when Obama said he had been to 57 states; he probably had been to 47, was tired, and his tongue slipped.

furious_a said...

Obama lied about closing Gitmo.

Obama lied, twice, to those in Janesville whose livelihood depended on that GM plant. "100 years" he said.

And when the time came for GM (61%-owned by the Treasury) to decided between re-activing Janesville or Spring Hill, GM (61%-owned by the Treasury) chose right-to-work state Spring Hill.

wyo sis said...

tl:dr

But!

The you're-a-liar game is not a winner for either side. There is not one single person who has not misstated, forgotten, deliberately lied, told a whopper or sought to deceive in any way for probably longer that a day. Except Jesus Christ.

If we're going to talk about lies as political disqualifiers we need to establish a standard that makes a statement about the person's qualifications for the job.

Saying there are 57 states is not disqualifying. Misremembering your time running a marathon is not disqualifying.

Most political rhetoric has elements of lying. We even have names for it like spin or slant. If you like a candidates position on things you care about you forgive the deceptions. If you don't you don't.

We're all a bunch of lying hacks with no redeeming qualities...
or we're all human and have human flaws.

Carry on.

garage mahal said...

Obama lied, twice, to those in Janesville whose livelihood depended on that GM plant.

Besides the lie, the concern for union workers at a GM plant is very touching.

gail said...

FWIW:

Ford announced its St Paul, MN light truck plant would close sometime in 2008. Ford delayed the closing until Dec., 2011 because orders for the Ranger kept coming in.

Ford must not know anything about manufacturing.

furious_a said...

Garage: So Obama should have just faxed over some orders?

Why not? He did in June to inflate GM's quarterly numbers.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

Garage: ...the concern for union workers at a GM plant is very touching.

Almost as touching the Obama Admin's decision, when givne the choice, to divert GM resources to a right-to-work state.

The SCABS!!!

Big Mike said...

Clinton was just doing a little lying about sex, donjya know, while Ryan is telling a major falsehood about his marathon time.

Yup, I see that Ryan is much worse.

Purely as side question, do any liberals at all "get" the people of the United States?

Mary Beth said...

Maybe that time was just a composite of many races he's run.

Chip S. said...

I love the smell of lefty desperation in an Althouse thread. It smells like victory.

Big Mike said...

@furious, you need to go back and carefully parse what candidate Obama really said. Did he say he would keep the plant open? He did not, sir! All he said was that it would stand for the next 100 years.

Only 96 years to go and then GM will be allowed to tear it down.

hombre said...

@garage: Okay, you win. Let's not vote for Ryan for President this year.

Now that we have the important stuff like the "100 year" implied promise that wasn't a promise and the marathon time resolved:

Let's talk about why you favor four more years of an administration of fiscal child abusers that are heaping debt on our children and grandchildren.

Are you childless?

furious_a said...

Big Mike: All he said was that it would stand for the next 100 years.

I stand corrected -- then-candidate Obama did not explicitly promise that there would be any people actually working in the plant.

Suckers.

garage mahal said...

Are you childless?

No, they are out of the womb, which means they are at risk from Republicans.

Chip S. said...

No, they are out of the womb, which means they are at risk from Republicans.

It's become clear that you expect everyone else to pick up the tab for your spawn, despite your allegedly hefty income.

You have the principles of a pickpocket.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that the big thing to remember here is that the Dem counterpart to Ryan is Slo' Joe Biden, who is, let us say, somewhat sloppy, when it comes to the truth. Yes, the same guy who bodily stole a speech from the British PM, lied about his college degrees, law school class rank, etc. And, who sounded so much more knowledgeable than Sarah Palin in their debate - until everything was factchecked the next day, and it turned out that a large chunk of what he had said was either inaccurate, or more often, false.

So, who is more honest, Paul Ryan? Or, Slo' Joe Biden?

cubanbob said...

2. Bill Clinton was cornered and compelled to speak. His lie was self-defense under attack, and he was trying to keep his presidency from collapsing because of something only tangentially related to the presidential enterprise. Paul Ryan volunteered information, boasting about something that wasn't true in an effort to win our favor. Very different motivations, and we should judge them with particularity and with a subtlety beyond crude epithets like "scumbag."

Ann did you forget the small detail of Clinton being found guilty of perjury by a federal judge? Is perjury a minor detail tangentially related to the presidential enterprise?


Garage this might be a little bit too much for you to grasp but:

1-Obama promised to keep the plant open for one hundred years if elected.
2-As president he nationalized GM.
3-As president he still hasn't reopened the plant. So what was the fifty billion wasted on?

Obama lied or as per usual all of his promises they have a short shelf life. Remember shovel ready? Or give me a trillion and unemployment will be below 8% ? I'm amazed that anyone with two working brain cells is willing to give him a second chance. At this rate he is going to make Herbert Hoover look really good.

SunnyJ said...

Consider what the issue really is here and in all areas of this fact checking, lying,misremembering, he said/she said that goes for debate these days:

The failure to even agree on what the facts are, precludes discussion or negotiation which are based on common ground acceptance of facts and then debate on opinion for what the facts mean or what do to with them.

What you have here is the destruction of the english language, manipulated by intentional double speak, spin and word salad. Nothing means what it means. This has been a calculated move by those that practice the psychological manipulation of the human condition for the purpose of control. You know the ones, marketing, public relations (previously known as propaganda but renamed after WWII Nazi conditioning), and political powers seeking to gain and maintain control.

Language is the anthropological tool required for societies of all kinds, ants/whales/dogs/horses/humans to create transactions of any kind. Some use spoken, sound and nonverbal and all require it. The western world (and some could argue the globe) depends upon the english language.

How to pull back from this destruction...not sure...but, pretty sure not being able to agree on words that are literally transcribed and recorded before we decide what someone else was thinking or intended doesn't look good for the future.

wyo sis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wyo sis said...

garage

So by extension children are at greatest risk from Democrats when they are in the womb and from Republicans when out of the womb.
Damn those Republicans for giving them a fighting chance!

stan said...

clinton lied about his golf scores even after cheating on nearly every hole.

hombre said...

No, they are out of the womb, which means they are at risk from Republicans.

Glib, evasive and dumb. The standard tactics for lefties when asked why they are Obots.

Titus said...

When a republican lies it is a mistake and it doesn't really bother me.

When a democrat lies, especially about fucking, I am outraged and disgusted.

I say, let's all get over it and do some yoga and find our chaka khans.

Life is too short to be outraged...about anything.

Namaste and tits.

Kit said...

As a runner and self-described gym rat (as I suspect Ryan would also describe himself), we pay attention to numbers. They're important, as we measure and compete against ourselves and others. From this standpoint, Ryan's story is very disappointing. In the whole scope of things, no, it's not all that important, but you know what, I want people who share my interests to show integrity, to respect what we do.

A sub-3 hour marathon is a big deal. It's not something you'd forget. Only he knows why he felt the need to make himself appear better...(and from experience), it's not the only thing he's fibbing about.

Also, I thought he was such a 'numbers guy'. I'm not too impressed.

Titus said...

I don't care if some lame stream media type says Ryan is a liar. They are the liars.

Paul Ryan has never ever lied because he is a republican....politician.

He could fuck a duck on stage and I would still love him.

Or he could rape an intern and cum on her blue dress and I would still love him.

That's how I roll.

Lindsey Meadows said...

Jay said...
"You can't point out any actual lies."

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/30/paul_ryans_brazen_lies/

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
Ryan's harping on this is problematic is not so much whether or not he mischaracterized the proposal, but because he proposed similar cuts, and not through reducing payments to providers, but slashing benefits


You're full of shit.

Your performance today has been more pathetic than usual.

Joe said...

Anyone who lies about something so irrelevant is a shit and generally untrustworthy. I don't care if Clinton or Obama lied; personal integrity isn't relative to others.

I'm still voting for Romney, but this greatly lowers my opinion of Ryan, especially because it was so unnecessary.

Jay said...

Lindsey Meadows said...
Jay said...
"You can't point out any actual lies."


You too tried & failed.

shiloh said...

but, but, but Obama

Carter, Carter, Carter

Clinton, Clinton, Clinton

yada yada yada

and the band played on ...

Darrell said...

"What happened in Selma, Alabama and Birmingham also stirred the conscience of the nation...This young man named Barack Obama...came over to this country. He met this woman...(who) had a good idea there was some craziness going on because they looked at each other and they decided...it might...be possible for us to get together and have a child. There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama... So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I'm not coming home to Selma, Alabama. I'm here because somebody marched." http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/04/selma_voting_rights_march_comm.php


Obama was born in 1961. The Selma civil rights march was in 1965.

Paddy O said...

"Except Jesus Christ."

Well, there was the time that he said he wasn't going to go to Jerusalem, but ended up there after all. Now, I'm not going to say he was lying per se, but it's doing something other than what he said he'd do, so...

Not casting stones, here, of course. Heaven forbid.

Paddy O said...

SunnyJ @1:09pm, Yes! Your comment is, I think, the most important comment of the thread.

Darrell said...

”In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died — an entire town destroyed,” the Democratic presidential candidate said in a speech to 500 people packed into a sweltering Richmond art studio for a fundraiser.

The actual death toll was 12.

Freeman Hunt said...

As a runner and self-described gym rat (as I suspect Ryan would also describe himself), we pay attention to numbers. They're important, as we measure and compete against ourselves and others.

True, but not when it's an event you haven't competed in for years and have no plans to compete in in the future.

SukieTawdry said...

Bill Clinton was cornered and compelled to speak. His lie was self-defense under attack, and he was trying to keep his presidency from collapsing because of something only tangentially related to the presidential enterprise.

Let's not forget that Bill's problems originated with the Paula Jones lawsuit. He was found in civil contempt of court and disbarred for his sworn deposition testimony about Lewinsky in that case. The impeachment charges of perjury stemmed from that. I think it's a stretch to say that Bill feared for the collapse of his presidency back when he was falsely testifying to Judge Wright.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

As someone who has run just one marathon, ~15 years ago, in about 4 and a quarter hours, I can certainly believe it was an honest mistake. While I don't think I would forget my time, I've accomplished much less in my life than Paul Ryan has, so completing a marathon probably stands out more in my mind.

If he has also run a half marathon, it would likely be in the a bit under two hours range. I could see this as getting conflated with his marathon time, being adjusted for the longer race in the back of his mind, and a wrong answer coming out.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

garage mahal said...

No, they are out of the womb, which means they are at risk from Republicans.

Those nasty tea-baggers, threatening to take over the government and use its awesome powers to leave your children alone.

Harold said...

"Saying there are 57 states is not disqualifying. Misremembering your time running a marathon is not disqualifying."

But not knowing how to spell potatoes properly because a UNION teacher, a DEMOCRAT, handed out cheat sheets to the judges, and only one, the one you had, had incorrect spellings, makes you an unqualified idiot for life.

And making a joke that, that every reporter present knew was a joke, about not speaking Latin on a trip to Latin America, then having a reporter report it as you not knowing that people in Latin America speak Spanish is equally disqualifying, for Republicans aren't allowed to joke or make mis-statements, because it just shows they're really idiots who need to be unmasked.

But not knowing Austrian? A non -existent language? Just a slip of the tongue...

PoNyman said...

Ok, I see that this issue is still popping up in different places and this is THE place to comment even though it is old news now. It is driving me crazy so I have to give my analysis:
From what I understand Ryan has run a marathon once years ago. Ryan is an in-shape guy and probably hangs with many different types of in-shape people including people who run marathons regularly. These people are probably just as in-shape as Ryan so when they mention times he thinks those are times he probably did when he ran his marathon. Since marathon running is not something he is really cares about and when asked point blank for a time he just went off of someone's time he had heard who was in his type of shape.
No lie, just forgot his own time and went off of one of his in-shape peers.