August 20, 2012

Should Todd "legitimate rape" Akin step aside?

The editors of the Nation Review Online say he should:
While Akin is a stalwart conservative and an honorable man, we regret to say that he inspires no such confidence. That is one reason why Senator Claire McCaskill, the sitting Democratic senator, boosted him during the Republican primaries with ads calling him a “true conservative.” She knew that she is the weakest Senate incumbent on the ballot this year and that her only hope was to draw a weak opponent. Akin won a three-way primary with a plurality of the vote; there was no run-off. McCaskill’s strategy is now paying off.

Akin has backed off from his remarks, albeit with the politician’s excuse of “misspeaking.” People who make such remarks on television are typically capable of making more like them, or rather incapable of exercising the judgment to refrain. We suspect that this same lack of judgment will cause Akin to blow past tomorrow evening’s deadline for him to leave the race and allow the Republicans to select a better nominee. We hope the congressman, who surely wants to see a Senate with as much conservative strength as possible next year, will prove us wrong.
Akin should...
  
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ADDED: "National Republican Senatorial Committee Chairman John Cornyn (R-Tex.) informed Rep. Todd Akin on Monday that the national GOP will not spend money to help elect him to the Senate...."

AND: Hannity, talking to Akin, essentially tells him to get out:
I think there is one political reality that I think has to be faced by you and your campaign and that is that you know, the reality here is that Democrats now have a ton of ammunition and they are now going to try to use these remarks to hurt everybody they can. And if I was put in that position, I would at least be thinking about what is in the best interest of the party. hat is in the best interest of, you know, Mitt Romney in this case. What is in the best interest of the people of Missouri, are they going to be able to hear a campaign about issues or is this going to be the distraction of the campaign. Are you -- you're not even considering that?"
Krauthammer says Akin must leave:
"He's got to leave... He's toxic. Nobody will touch him. Republicans aren't going to support him. He's not going to get any money. They've tossed away a seat that they could easily have won. It isn't only that it was offensive and toxic; it was unbelievably stupid. And there is enough stupidity in Congress that we don't need to add to it in this large amount. The guy's got to leave."
It was sharp of Republicans to drop Akin cold. No one thought he was worth defending.

235 comments:

1 – 200 of 235   Newer›   Newest»
smitty1e said...

Whether or not he should, he appears to be toast, with the butter-laden Sword of Damocles in mid-swing.

Michael K said...

I don't know enough about the guy to vote. He had a small point. There is reduced instance of fertilized egg implanting if the woman is under stress. I think that is what he was trying to say and should have kept his mouth shut. He may be a good candidate otherwise and this may blow over. Whoopi Goldberg said something similar when she said "rape rape."

He should not have responded to an abortion question as they are alway loaded for Republicans. He may be incompetent as a candidate. I don't trust NRO after they let John Derbyshire go. No vote without more info.

Jay said...

Isn't it interesting how the Republicans critically examine Senate candidates and the Democrats happily run one who is lying about being a Native American?

Matthew Sablan said...

In politics, you get, at most, one screw up if you're a Republican. Very rarely will you have a Republican make a Spiter-esque come back, or even the whispered Return of Weiner.

Akin should bow out if he feels that someone with ideals close to his needs to win this seat more than he needs to win this seat.

AllenS said...

Remember Palin endorsed Sarah Steelman for that seat.

Brennan said...

The statement was seriously devoid of any resemblance of understanding of how the human body works.

It's unrecoverable.

Hagar said...

Up to the voters of Missouri.

If we can every politician that says something stupid, it will be hard to keep the legislatures stocked.

Lem said...

Isn't it interesting how the Republicans critically examine Senate candidates and the Democrats happily run one who is lying about being a Native American?

Senator Brown has never payed taxes ;)

Matthew Sablan said...

"If we can every politician that says something stupid, it will be hard to keep the legislatures stocked."

... I'm sorry, was there a down side?

purplepenquin said...

The Junior (soon-to-be-Senior) Senator from Wisconsin that Akin "should do the right thing for the nation and step aside today"

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.

Michael Haz said...

Ted "I let Mary Jo Kopechne drown" wasn't forced to step down.

Akin said something stupid and (sort of) apologized. Let the voters decide.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
In politics, you get, at most, one screw up if you're a Republican. Very rarely will you have a Republican make a Spiter-esque come back, or even the whispered Return of Weiner.


This is kind of whiny. The reptilian Spitzer is on an unwatched cable show. Not much of a comeback. It is more than he deserves, but money and connections will always get you something. The Weiner's got nothing going on, completely dependent on his wife at this point.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Ted "I let Mary Jo Kopechne drown" wasn't forced to step down."

-- Right. But, I'm talking pure strategy/politics here. Akin doesn't have the clout to leave a woman to die and get elected over and over to his death. He probably doesn't have the clout to say something stupid and win.

So, the question for him is: What's more important? Personal ambition or advancing his beliefs/ideology through a like-minded individual more likely to win?

Matthew Sablan said...

Weiner's name has been kicked around as a possible mayoral (or was it gubernatorial?) candidate. You haven't seen the last of him.

... that came out wrong.

antiphone said...

BY THE TIME I NOTICED THIS STORY, IT WAS OVER

Heh

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.


What's even more interesting is that you actually think there is some big "scientific" gaffe here.

Michael Haz said...

Senator Brown has never payed (sic) taxes ;)

Lem, please provide a link to a credible source. Bonus question: Did he not pay taxes that were due, of just not hae any taxes to pay?

Plus, have all the WH staffers who haven't paid their income taxes gotten caught up with their payments?

Shanna said...

I don't know, it seems like there should be other options. What happens if he steps down, does the next in line republican go on the ballot?

MadisonMan said...

Really, if politicians stepped aside every single time they made a verbal gaffe, then, um, I'm sorry what would the down side to that be?

Seriously though, this will all be forgotten by November, if he dares stick around. Party Leadership seems to lack a spine if they can't take a little bit of controversy.

chickelit said...

Akin is a kin to legitimate toast.

Is it too late for the woman of Steel?

Judith said...

Step aside, please! Remember what happened to Clayton Williams when he was running for TX governor against Ann Richards. He was running 12 points ahead when he made a stupid joke about something: "If you're about to get raped, you might as well relax and enjoy it." Claytie got shellacked, and Todd will, too.
1

furious_a said...

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.

What's even more interesting is that the DNC-party leadership consider "Chains, y'all" Biden to be qualified to stand a heartbeat away from the Big Red Button.

AReasonableMan said...

It is curious that the Republican establishment is running so hard and so quickly from this guy. His link to Ryan via their joint sponsorship of the 'forcible rape' bill almost certainly explains this. He is being sacrificed for Ryan and Romney's sake.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.


What's even more interesting is that Nancy "unemployment benefits creat jobs" Pelosi is the Democratic Minority Leader.

Nathan Alexander said...

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.

So to be on the Science committee, you need to be able to not offend the science-illiteracy of pro-abortionists?

When did that become the standard?

I bet if you had to answer my questions for 20 minutes, I could find several areas where your opinion differed from that of my chosen experts. Does that disqualify you from your current job?

Does someone need to be an acknowledged expert in any possible industry, profession, field, or topic before they can be in Congress?

Or do you think it is okay for someone to hold an opinion, but consult experts and the opinions of their constituents specifically during the process of crafting legislation?

I'd love to see you attempt to apply this standard of yours to all politicians. I don't think you have that level of honesty in you, though.

Jay said...

Anyone want to go down the Science Committee Roster and laugh out loud at a few of the Democrats on there?

Don't worry, purplepenguin isn't bright enough to understand it all...

chickelit said...

purplepenquin piqued me with:
What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.

Why, it's almost as shocking as letting Barbara Boxer go anywhere near Senate Defense committees.



Palladian said...

Who exactly is the moron audience for this sort of nonsense political theater?

Balfegor said...

Re: Jay:

What's even more interesting is that you actually think there is some big "scientific" gaffe here.

Really? Do tell! Do women have an inborn biological mechanism that lets them avoid pregnancy? Ordinary women, mind, not the Bene Gesseritt.

Bender said...

If someone else can be put on the ballot, yes, bounce this clown now.

If not, you don't simply allow the Dem McCaskell to win by forfeit.

chickelit said...

Oh sorry, Boxer isn't on any Senate Armed Forces Committees--she's a woman of Science!

Marshal said...

Shanna said...
I don't know, it seems like there should be other options. What happens if he steps down, does the next in line republican go on the ballot?



By Jennifer Rubin
a replacement would be chosen by the state GOP central committee.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/dumping-akin-two-options-for-replacing-him-on-the-missouri-ballot/2012/08/20/053fee12-eaec-11e1-9ddc-340d5efb1e9c_blog.html

This was the same procedure when Lautenberg was placed on the NJ Senate ballot at the last second a few years ago.

Brennan said...

“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.”

What is he talking about? Honestly.

Jay said...

Balfegor said...

Really? Do tell! Do women have an inborn biological mechanism that lets them avoid pregnancy?


Um,
"It seems to me first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare," Akin said in the interview. "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin said of a rape victim's chances of becoming pregnant.

Is not what you said.

Come back a bit more informed.

chickelit said...

Palladian said...
Who exactly is the moron audience for this sort of nonsense political theater?

Naked partisans. The Darwinian game is to attack and destroy the weakest!

yashu said...

Purple Penguin, in this case I believe the pressure for him to resign is coming from the GOP, not Democrats. McCaskill would like nothing better than to run against him.

What he said was ugh idiotic and creepy, and he makes Republicans (and pro-life conservatives) look bad, and he gives a desperate DNC fuel for the "war on women" meme. Still, he won a primary election. Still, saying something idiotic and creepy is not a disqualification for the Senate. Still, it's unfair that there often seems to be a double standard in media coverage of "outrageous" GOP vs. Dem politician's remarks.

But the fact is, Obamacare is on the table, and we cannot afford to lose that vote for repeal. Insofar as Akin has given McCaskill odds of winning, he should step aside for the sake not just of the GOP, not just of MO, but of the country.

So I guess it depends on what the meaning of "should" is.

garage mahal said...

What is he talking about? Honestly.

Meaning if the woman doesn't get pregnant, "you didn't rape that".

AReasonableMan said...

Palladian said...
Who exactly is the moron audience for this sort of nonsense political theater?

Naked partisans.


The same kind of people that take Drudge and Instapundit seriously.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Meaning if the woman doesn't get pregnant, "you didn't rape that"."

-- Wrong. What he said is stupid, but he clearly said that it was "rare" not "impossible." Lying about the extent of Akin's stupidness is bad; it makes the attack reek of naked partisanness instead of unified dislike of stupidity.

DADvocate said...

Let the people vote. We've elected plenty of idiots so far, maybe they want another one.

chickelit said...

The same kind of people that take Drudge and Instapundit seriously.

Says the Sullivanist hisself!

Alex said...

And today garage woke up in glee.

DADvocate said...

The same kind of people that take Drudge and Instapundit seriously.

LOL. Only an idiot like you would try to pretend to be smarter than a Yale educated genius.

AReasonableMan said...

yashu said...
Purple Penguin, in this case I believe the pressure for him to resign is coming from the GOP, not Democrats. McCaskill would like nothing better than to run against him.


Exactly. You can't blame either the media or the Democrats for this one. The voters have spoken.

furious_a said...

What is really interesting is that the GOP-party leadership considers Akin to be qualified to serve on the Science committee for the House.

Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), during a visit to the Mars Pathfinder Ops Center in 1997, asked if the Pathfinder succeeded in taking pictures of the American flag planted on Mars by Neil Armstrong in 1969.

What is really interesting is that the Democratic leadership thought her qualified to sit likewise on the House Science Committee as well as the Subcommittee on Space Policy.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Let the people vote. We've elected plenty of idiots so far, maybe they want another one."

-- That's the sort of reasoning that keeps us from voting all the bums out! What do we want? All the bums out! When do we want it? At the next pre-arranged election cycle!

Matthew Sablan said...

... That's a ... -curious- statement about Mars.

chickelit said...

At least garage mahal has worked past his Sconnie-bashing stage. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

jr565 said...

He shouldn't have to step aside, but he should clarify what he meant. If he meant:
There is reduced instance of fertilized egg implanting if the woman is under stress
then he is technically right, though he obviously made his point very inartfully. He shouldn't necessarily resign simply for making that point.
People should be allowed to clarify their remarks and not let their enemies dictate what they meant by saying what they did.

Kit said...

If history is any indication, Akin will turn himself into the victim here and will be fundraising on the statement in less than a week.

The Crack Emcee said...

While Akin is a stalwart conservative and an honorable man, we regret to say that he inspires no such confidence,...Akin has backed off from his remarks, albeit with the politician’s excuse of “misspeaking.” People who make such remarks on television are typically capable of making more like them, or rather incapable of exercising the judgment to refrain.

More conservative hypocrisy.

What Akin has said is no crazier than anything Mitt Romney has claimed - from Jesus will return to Missouri to the outright lie that he marched with MLK - but nobody's afraid he'll keep saying them, nor are they saying it's an impediment to his holding office. Even worse is no one in a position of authority will make that point. It's just too difficult to watch:

The conservatives are carving out their soul like a cantaloupe,...

yashu said...

Some commenters have all the predictability of a metronome.

Alex said...

Akins is not going to step aside. What an asshole.

purplepenquin said...

What's even more interesting is that you actually think there is some big "scientific" gaffe here.

I'm not surprised that you beleive there is nothing scientifically untrue in his statement about women being able to self-abort if raped.

Kinda interesting that some folks honestly beleive that.


I'm also not surprised to see that you're still talking about this topic, even tho earlier you said "It is stupid & a pointless discussion".

Kinda interesting how you've made dozens of comments about this topic since you said that.


But what is really uninteresting is how you'll give 3-4 responses to the same person's comment.

Repetitive unicorn is repetitive.

Baron Zemo said...

By all means he should back off and let these women enjoy their abortions.

They should not even have to pay the bill.

Until they reach the afterlife.

Then they will truly pay.

For all eternity.

Alex said...

pp - surprising that some conservatives want to die on this hill.

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
Akins is not going to step aside. What an asshole.

Why should he step aside? He won a legitimate primary, expounding similar views. His statements were consistent with the 'forcible rape' bill that he co-sponsored with Ryan.

AReasonableMan said...

Baron Zemo said...
let these women enjoy their abortions.


This is a little hysterical. I doubt that any woman, anywhere on the planet, ever enjoyed an abortion.

Alex said...

Areasonableman - of course you want Akins in the race so he can be used as club against all Republicans to November.

Thorley Winston said...

But the fact is, Obamacare is on the table, and we cannot afford to lose that vote for repeal. Insofar as Akin has given McCaskill odds of winning, he should step aside for the sake not just of the GOP, not just of MO, but of the country.

Agreed, Akin should step down because his comment could hurt the country if it helps McCaskill, who is objectively worse, get reelected or he he provides fodder for the "war on women" meme that Democrats are hoping to use this fall.

yashu said...

He won a legitimate primary, expounding similar views. His statements were consistent with the 'forcible rape' bill that he co-sponsored with Ryan.

Oh, bullshit.

Baron Zemo said...

He should not step aside. No matter how loud the wailing of the abortionists and their minions. It is the basis of the Democratic party and at the root of all their success.

Alas it is most unlikely that he will stay the course. He will surrender to the tumult and the pressure.

Evil often triumphs. The innocent die at the hands of the abortionist and their multi-million dollar government subsidized industry.

The Liberals smile at a job well done.

furious_a said...

Mitt Romney has claimed - from Jesus will return to Missouri to the outright lie that he marched with MLK

Mitt Romney said his father did, not himself.

Alex said...

Comments like this just reinforce the GOP image of "war on women" and push swing voter women away to the Democrats.

Alex said...

Baron - you can fight abortion without saying utterly stupid things like Akins did.

Matthew Sablan said...

"His statements were consistent with the 'forcible rape' bill that he co-sponsored with Ryan."

-- No, they weren't. Look, this has been debunked several times here. You don't even tell us what bill you're talking about, so maybe you mean a different one than the one other people mentioned.

If you're going to lie, don't be lazy about it. Pony up. Give us a link to the legislation -- not a Talking Points of HuffPo abbreviation of the legislation. I've always been kind enough to go to Thomas for the text, you can to.

Put up or apologize and stop lying. Because, at this point, that's what it is.

Matthew Sablan said...

PS: The reinforce: Akin said something stupid. He did not, however, imply that if you get pregnant, you were not raped. He in fact concedes that it does happen, but rarely.

He still said something stupid. But it is not what people are trying to make it sound like.

Alex said...

Another Dem talking point - why is that all of these anti-woman troglodytes are Republicans?

Baron Zemo said...

Of course they enjoy it.

Why else would they give out T-shirts!

Alex said...

The truth is irrelevant. We have already seen that Obama and his Super PACs will lie through their teeth about Romney. The only remaining questions is will the MSM come up for air?

yashu said...

I blame Huckabee for Akin (he prominently endorsed & stumped for him). Not the Tea Party (they were split over candidates); Palin endorsed Steelman. The DNC ran attack ads against Akin's primary opponents. And it was an open primary, so it's probable (given that the DNC was spending money to ensure Akin's victory) that he got a number of Democrats' votes.

machine said...

"It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that [pregnancy from rape] is really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

He didn't just say something stupid...he believes this...this is the anti-science wing of the GOP...and not only is it growing, it's on the ticket!

Matthew Sablan said...

"He didn't just say something stupid...he believes this...this is the anti-science wing of the GOP...and not only is it growing, it's on the ticket!"

-- He believes what? That pregnancy from rapes is less likely than pregnancies from consensual sex? How many pregnancies from rape would have to occur for you to consider it common, rare, uncommon, very common or very rare?

Matthew Sablan said...

Again, he phrased it incredibly poorly. But, he is not stating what people want him to have said, which is that: "If you got pregnant, it wasn't rape!"

He's an idiot and should be replaced, but he's not the monster the left needs him to be.

furious_a said...

Appears that Akin will withdraw.

A MO State GOP committee would select the replacement. Names getting tossed about don't include the 2d and 3d place finishers in the GOP primary.

Matthew Sablan said...

So, here's a question for a consistency check. What did everyone think of the Democrat who ran in TN who ended up being a little bit crazy? Any particular reason he's not being used as a bludgeon against every Democrat? Was Obama ever asked about his crazy/stupid ideas?

Alex said...

Ilise Hope Nyden DeSanti · Top Commenter · Dean College
Doesn't really matter because the damage has already been done. What's more, Todd Akin's words will stick to Paul Ryan like white on rice since he co-sponsored anti-abortion legislation with wording just as bad, with Akin in Congress. This is how the Republican Party thinks now, and there is no getting around it, whether or not Akin withdraws~!


This is really really bad for the GOP.

Jay said...

machine said...

He didn't just say something stupid...he believes this...this is the anti-science wing of the GOP...and not only is it growing, it's on the ticket


You actually think there is some big "scientific" gaffe here.

What is it? Why don't you tell us all abou it?

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...


Why should he step aside? He won a legitimate primary, expounding similar views. His statements were consistent with the 'forcible rape' bill that he co-sponsored with Ryan


Really?

Then why don't you point us to the section of the bill & the relevant text.

I can't wait to read all about it.

Methadras said...

It was just a retarded thing to say. I wish these guys would just stick to what they know and leave it at that. Instead of misspeaking on something irrefutably stupid, why not just lie like the rest of them do about how they will save our union from evil.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

I'm not surprised that you beleive there is nothing scientifically untrue in his statement about women being able to self-abort if raped.


I'm not at all surprised you actually believe he said or implied "self abort"

Using this moron's definition of "self abort" any woman who has sex but does not get pregnant "self aborts"

Again, you are stupid beyond belief.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

I'm also not surprised to see that you're still talking about this topic, even tho earlier you said "It is stupid & a pointless discussion".


Except I didn't say that about this topic, I said that regarding abortion policy and Akin commenting on said abortion policy.

You really are functionally retarded. You realize that, right?

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
You don't even tell us what bill you're talking about, so maybe you mean a different one than the one other people mentioned.


The House Bill H.R. 3: "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act" co-sponsored by Ryan and Akin, and others, changed the word “rape”, the original language in the Hyde Amendment, to “forcible rape” before a backlash forcibly caused them to revert to the original wording.

Alex said...

areasonableman - so what you're saying is that Ryan believes abortion should be illegal even in the case of rape?

machine said...

Pennsylvania state Rep. Stephen Freind (R) looks to be the first legislator to make the argument that rape prevents pregnancy, arguing in the late 1980s that the odds of a pregnancy resulting from rape were "one in millions and millions and millions." His explanation? The trauma of rape causes women to "secrete a certain secretion which has the tendency to kill sperm...." Arkansas politician Fay Boozman followed up during during his 1998 Senate campaign by arguing that "fear-induced hormonal changes could block a rape victim’s ability to conceive." Those remarks lead to a backlash when then-Gov. Mike Huckabee tapped Boozman to run the state’s health department. The argument was most recently – and perhaps most fully – articulated by National Right to Life president John Wilke in a 1999 essay titled "Rape Pregnancies Are Rare." Wilke made a pretty similar case to Akin: That the "physical trauma" of rape has a way of preventing pregnancy.

"...secrete a certain secretion"? I'd be embarrassed too...

Jay said...

machine said...
Pennsylvania state Rep. Stephen Freind (R) looks to be the first legislator to make the argument that rape prevents pregnancy,


How do you know when someone is stupid?

When they turn comments to that level of dishonesty.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...

The House Bill H.R. 3: "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act" co-sponsored by Ryan and Akin, and others, changed the word “rape”, the original language in the Hyde Amendment, to “forcible rape”


Um, and then what?

This is important or not important because ______?

Scott said...

He should resign. Republicans have higher standards than Democrats.

lohwoman said...

Claire McCaskill's campaign is out $1.5 million when Akin withdraws. Coitus interruptus.

wyo sis said...

The guy said something stupid. When Republicans say stupid things the Republican body secretes a certain secretion--- Oh, hell--- you know the rest.

The guy is toast and JoeBiden lingers on.

Revenant said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

He was a lousy candidate to begin with, and now his odds of winning are even lower. So yes, he should step aside.

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
areasonableman - so what you're saying is that Ryan believes abortion should be illegal even in the case of rape?

He may well believe this, it would be consistent with some strains of Catholicism, but I did not say this.

Abortion is a contentious issue because there is no clear bright line separating a beautiful new born baby from the loose collection of cells that comprise an early embryo. People of an absolutist nature try to create unequivocal criteria on which to decide this question but these efforts are less than convincing for most of us. Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

Revenant said...

The House Bill H.R. 3: "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act

... says nothing that supports your claim.

AReasonableMan said...

Revenant said...
The House Bill H.R. 3: "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act

... says nothing that supports your claim.



As I said, quite clearly, the current bill was modified, under pressure.

Revenant said...

Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

The whole "stay out of the woman's uterus" schtick would be more convincing if the people advancing it weren't also demanding the government mandate birth control coverage. :)

garage mahal said...

areasonableman - so what you're saying is that Ryan believes abortion should be illegal even in the case of rape?

That was Ryan's position as of at least yesterday.

Revenant said...

As I said, quite clearly, the current bill was modified, under pressure.

In no form, pre or post-modification, did the bill say anything consistent with Akin's remarks.

And yes, I know you keep saying otherwise. But you're lying, so I dismissed it. :)

edutcher said...

When the Demos start dropping out for the things they say, then he should drop out.

AReasonableMan said...

Scott said...
He should resign.


Why should he resign. He represents a very persistent strain of thought within the Republican party. He was elected in a legitimate fashion. As far as I can tell he is neither a crook or a leche. These views deserve to be heard clearly, without Rove, Coulter and Hannity trying to shout him down. It seems the Republicans are as PC as the Democrats on this issue.

The Crack Emcee said...

furious_a,

Mitt Romney has claimed - from Jesus will return to Missouri to the outright lie that he marched with MLK

Mitt Romney said his father did, not himself.

There are two videos on my post. I suggest you watch the second one, furious.

In both cases, he lied,...

Shanna said...

I went into the whole stress response thing in the other thread, so I won't bother here, but it sounds like they won't pick the person who came in third? I can't imagine the new person will have time to build up any name recognition if they don't already have it.

Eric said...

It is curious that the Republican establishment is running so hard and so quickly from this guy. His link to Ryan via their joint sponsorship of the 'forcible rape' bill almost certainly explains this. He is being sacrificed for Ryan and Romney's sake.

On the other hand Occam's razor says they've simply made the calculation that what he said is political suicide and there's no point in keeping him around.

AReasonableMan said...

Revenant said...
Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

The whole "stay out of the woman's uterus" schtick would be more convincing if the people advancing it weren't also demanding the government mandate birth control coverage.


Birth control is just a hormone pill, like a lot of other pills. Why should it be singled out for differential treatment compared to all of the other medications covered by various health plans?

chickelit said...

A ReasonablMan wrote: Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

I tend not to get exercized about this issue but it seems to me that a certain well-known legislator favors partial and even post birth abortions. Now that is extremist.

Also, you mentioned upthread about people taking Drudge and Instapundit seriously? What about certain bloggers who couldn't stay out of candidate's uterine affairs?

Eric said...

Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

People said the same thing about slavery in 1860. Just because you have a difficult question to wrestle with doesn't mean you're absolved of any action.

Michael K said...

" AReasonableMan said...
Palladian said...
Who exactly is the moron audience for this sort of nonsense political theater?

Naked partisans.


The same kind of people that take Drudge and Instapundit seriously."

So the people who vote for Biden are non-partisan ?

The abortion issue was poisoned for a century by Roe v Wade. Abortion was legal in California three years before that decision. I know because I did some.

Akins said a dumb thing but he had a small point about stress and pregnancy. There is some evidence that stress may affect implantation, sort of like RU 486.

The worst part of this is that, if Akins withdraws, the Democrats will still flog this for the next three months and there will be less defense.

The most pro-abortion segment of the population is males 18 to 35. I wonder why that is ? :)

Eric said...

Birth control is just a hormone pill, like a lot of other pills. Why should it be singled out for differential treatment compared to all of the other medications covered by various health plans?

Well, that's certainly very convincing to people who already share your opinion. To practicing Catholics, though, not so much.

rhhardin said...

National Review has a record of caving to political correctness.

As John Derbyshire wondered recently

So imagine this scenario: You're a commentator who wrote something unkind about black people. As a result, you're being chased down the road by a howling mob of leftists. Desperately looking around for some support from your colleagues, you spot your editor — right there in the mob, howling along with the rest of them!

What must that feel like? How should I know? It happened this week, though, to Naomi Schaefer Riley, a paid contributor to the Brainstorm blog at the Chronicle of Higher Education website. Ms. Schaefer Riley was reacting to a Chronicle puff piece about the new generation of Black Studies scholars. Their "scholarship," Ms. Schaefer Riley pointed out, quite correctly of course, was perfectly bogus, as is their field. The Ph.D. dissertation topics mentioned in the Chronicle's puff piece were, she remarked, quote, "obscure at best and a collection of left-wing victimization claptrap, at worst."

This brought thunderous denunciation down on Ms. Schaefer Riley's head. An online petition signed by 6,500 academics demanded that the Chronicle fire her. The Chronicle's editor, Liz McMillen, held out for a whole weekend against the pressure, then fired her on the Monday.

A whole weekend! Now if the Chronicle had been a conservative outlet, they would have folded to the mob inside twelve hours. How do I know that? I don't, I really don't — just guessing.


Lowry thinks Kathleen Lopez is smart.

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
On the other hand Occam's razor says they've simply made the calculation that what he said is political suicide and there's no point in keeping him around.

Not entirely clear that it is suicide where he lives and Claire McCaskill is not exactly one of the best and brightest either.

I doubt this would be anything more than a regional story without the link to Ryan. The link to Ryan is political dynamite, and so Akin is probably toast. I'm rooting for him.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...
Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.


Says a supporter of ObamaCare.

That's funny.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...

As I said, quite clearly, the current bill was modified, under pressure.


Notice you can't articulate what "being modified" means.

Why do you think that is?

Baron Zemo said...

This bogus controversy is part and parcel of the Democratic Party's attempt to demand that their cultural norms be the only acceptable area for the fight to waged. Any dissenting voice must be silenced. Romney and Ryan will not be a profile in courage in this matter. They will acquiesce for political reasons. Because political advantage is more important than their alleged moral and religious values.

Obama demands that the Catholic Church and other conscientious objectors fund contraception. Soon he will demand that they fund abortions as well. As well as killing any baby that survives a botched abortion. As well as being forced to perform gay marriages in their churches and synagogues. (But never their mosques....I wonder why that is)

When they tell you that can't happen....that such laws will never come to pass.......think again my friends....think again.

rhhardin said...

Obama responded "Rape is rape."

That's making unequals equal.

The first rape is taken broadly, the second narrowly.

The claim is that the second is the right handle to take hold of the bunch.

But the first rape has all sorts of non rape in it, a product of women's rights and the disparagement of men.

Obama is saying that doesn't matter.

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
What about certain bloggers who couldn't stay out of candidate's uterine affairs?


I couldn't tell whether he had had a psychotic break or it was just another way of saying how much he hated her, like many people insist that Obama is a muslim, despite a complete absence of confirmatory evidence.


A lot of these bloggers are pure hacks, Drudge and Instapundit on one side and Kos and Huffington on the other. Literally everything they have to say is predictable. The people in the middle are a lot more interesting. The ones who swing around wildly are actually thinking, albeit imperfectly, and that is much more interesting to me. I find the pure hack sites pretty much unreadable, unless something goes seriously wrong for their side.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...


The House Bill H.R. 3: "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act" co-sponsored by Ryan and Akin, and others, changed the word “rape”, the original language in the Hyde Amendment, to “forcible rape” before a backlash forcibly caused them to revert to the original wording.


And the section of the bill saying that women rarely get pregnant when they are raped is where _____ again?

Oh, you're just bringing this up to try and smear Paul Ryan with Akin's comments.

Never mind.

Matthew Sablan said...

The sad thing? I'm already seeing people hailing "rape is rape" as some sort of amazing insight and sign of Obama's chops as president.

furious_a said...

B*tch set me up.

Clever. Like Gray Davis buying ads against Bill Riordan during the 2002 California gub. primaries.

Revenant said...

Birth control is just a hormone pill, like a lot of other pills.

Such as RU-486. :)

Why should it be singled out for differential treatment compared to all of the other medications covered by various health plans?

I agree, it shouldn't be. Insurers should be free to not cover it, just like they are free to not cover nose jobs, Lasik eye surgery, etc.

garage mahal said...

Looks like the GOP is Achin from Akin. Under the bus you go! *thump dA BumP*

Alex said...

garage - there is a sizable contingent in the GOP that is pro-choice.

Eustace Chilke said...

I'm so pissed at this fool it's impossible to describe. I mean, I expect the worst from politicians. The best of them are maggots. I nearly never waste the effort it takes to get mad at a politician. But this clown. Holy shit is all I can say.

Claire McCaskill spent 2 million dollars in this state advertising in favor of Akin in the Republican primary because they wanted to run against him. Today it must look to her like the best money she ever spent. Not only is this buffoon going down in the election, he's liable to give the state to Obama in the process.

No wonder she wanted to run against Akin. This moron is a prime example of the worst sort of Republican. A died in the wool social concervative with no more brains than a reptile. Republicans, listen up. Dump the social agenda. Enough already. We've got way bigger fish to fry.

I hope this bastard gets out of the race soon. Yesterday would not be too soon. I've been waiting six years to vote against that bitch, McCaskill but I can't vote for this loon.

Methadras said...

Revenant said...

Given the broad range of opinions on this issue, I think its best that legislators stay out of a women's uterus.

The whole "stay out of the woman's uterus" schtick would be more convincing if the people advancing it weren't also demanding the government mandate birth control coverage. :)


Especially if they use a Nova Ring or an IUD. Stay out of my uterus. Oh wait.

Phil said...

"If we can every politician that says something stupid, it will be hard to keep the legislatures stocked."

Feature, not bug.

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
Well, that's certainly very convincing to people who already share your opinion. To practicing Catholics, though, not so much.

Catholics use birth control at much the same rate as the rest of the population.

AllieOop said...

Social conservatives just can't seem to help themselves, they will just hand the victory to Democrats. All the talk about the economy, yet all the time they wasted in the House with Bills having to do with social issues, ah Republicans, so easily distracted from the economy, stupid.

Revenant said...

all the time they wasted in the House with Bills having to do with social issues

"Wasted" implies there's something useful they could be doing with their time.

Given who controls the Senate and the White House, that clearly is not the case. :)

Alex said...

Allie... what we need to do is jettison the social conservatives and the Communists from your party and form a new Pragmatist party. Are you on board?

garage mahal said...

Seems Paul Ryan and Todd Akin worked together on several pieces of legislation. Hmmmmmm. We ought to take a closer look, like with a fine tooth comb. The right is all about vetting, I'm sure they will jump at this quest for the truth!

yashu said...

Among the lessons to be learned from this, closed primaries are preferable to open ones, because shenanigans will happen. (And I say that as an independent.)

A possible (tenuous) silver lining to the Akin clusterfuck is that the GOP & conservative response-- not just from the "establishment" but Tea Party conservatives-- has been pretty universally one of rejection. Of course the Dems/MSM will do their damnedest to hang Akin on every Republican's neck, but for most Americans (besides those already committed to voting for Obama) that will seem disingenuous and the overreach might even backlash. Before this happened, the DNC was painting Republicans as Akins anyway; by strongly denouncing Akin's remarks, they've proved they are not.

Brennan said...

Thankfully the free press isn't willing to be a lapdog for the President's campaign.

Oh wait.

Eustace Chilke said...

When you Google McCaskill today you get Akin on rape. We must have rocks in our heads here to let Claire Don't-Make-Me-Use-My-Mommy-Voice McCaskill choose her own opponent. It was no secret that her campaign was spending big money advertising for Akin. There was no opposition to McCaskill so thousands of Democrats took Republican ballots in the open primary. It might be the dirtiest thing I've ever seen in politics.

There are plenty of strong candidates in this state. Claire demonstrated as much by running scared and spending her own funds on pro Akin ads. I've said forever that it's a mistake to think Republicans and Democrats actually oppose one another but damn I wanted to get rid of that supercilious virago. Republicans, grow a brain. Dump this asshole.

yashu said...

Seems Paul Ryan and Todd Akin worked together on several pieces of legislation.

Ah, the rhetorical sophistry of "co-sponsor," as if Ryan and Akin co-authored a book. IIRC we're talking about bills that had over 100 reps (or close to that) as "co-sponsors" (including Democrats).

yashu said...

Republicans, grow a brain. Dump this asshole.

They're trying their hardest to pressure him, have even cut off funding. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, it's up to him.

Cedarford said...

Michael K said...
I don't know enough about the guy to vote. He had a small point. There is reduced instance of fertilized egg implanting if the woman is under stress.

Even on that he is dead wrong. Female mammals, by evolution, are primed to have enhanced fertility when a dominant male comes along, beats the male rivals by force...then forces the largely unwilling at first (via canine "rape", rat "rape", etc.) the fertile female mammals to have sex and preserve HIS DNA. Evolution has approved as a way to better ensure the female DNA is combined with the stronger male DNA to increase survival odds of the rodent, human, lion, horse, etc. species.

The truth is that rape and the stress of violent rape triggers luteinizing hormones that help stimulate ovulation and implantation into the uterus of mammals. Which makes the situation exactly the opposite of the religious beliefs of Right To Lifers.
Women subjected to violent rape, or stressed out as they are made slaves and fucked by Muslim conquerers....are 6-7 times more likely to get pregnant per sex intercourse incident as from willing, romantic intercourse. This is well established by what observers saw in wars where rape and pillage was normal for most of human history...and by what 19th Century and early 20th century doctors established looking at the statistics on rape victims before abortions and morning after pills and bith control pills were available.

And the Right to Lifers are also in serious denial about the other evolutionary mammilian advantage - the not yet fully understood ability of a female mammal that only has 1-2 fetuses developing in most cases to detect genetically defective fetuses and abort them by miscarrage - which frees the mammal up to try again in her limited duration fertile years to get pregant again, with healthy, viable fetuses.
Rick Santorums "blessed by Jesus, Baby Bella" was a case of mammalian natural defense against carrying a defective to term - failing.
It's a fairly recent discovery. Defects and non-viable human fetuses were sometimes obvious in late-term miscarriages - but not early ones where the fetus was not developed enough to show signs one way or the other. It was only in the 80s and 90s that extensive genetic testing of human and other large mammal miscarried fetuses revealed that up to 60% were afflicted with genetic defect making them unviable.
How the female mammal body can detect and know early on that it's best to self-abort and start over again, and how the abortion mechanism in female mammals is done is fascinating and still in the early phase of study and analysis.

chickelit said...

AllieOop said...
Social conservatives just can't seem to help themselves, they will just hand the victory to Democrats. All the talk about the economy, yet all the time they wasted in the House with Bills having to do with social issues, ah Republicans, so easily distracted from the economy, stupid.

Disingenuous, Allie. You're saying, let Democrats make up the social agenda, & don't even dare touch any of it...and if you do, we'll punish you with more even years of Obama economics. This might lead to an even greater economic reaction to Obama economics with an even harsher, more dire conservative lining. I call bullshit on your non-compromising strategy.

ken in sc said...

Women are very susceptible to getting pregnant from rape. This is how they survived many generations of being part of a conquered population. In fact women come to love their rapists. Especially if they have children by them. This is why we have this rape fantasy thing going on. Why do you think so many women go back to an asshole boyfriend? It's all part of the same thing.

garage mahal said...

yashu
For what it's worth, I can't stand Claire McCaskill. If she loses, I can relish in it and hopefully never have to see her fat condescending face again. If she wins, Dems probably hold the Senate. But still stuck with a bunch of corporate whore Democrats like McCaskill, so maybe not a big win afterall. I'll say one thing: at least Akin is honest, albeit horribly misguided.

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
Disingenuous, Allie. You're saying, let Democrats make up the social agenda, & don't even dare touch any of it...and if you do, we'll punish you with more even years of Obama economics.

What did the Democrats do to deserve the great recesion brought on by Bush and Cheney?

Alex said...

areasonableman - what did Bush do specifically that causes the Great Recession? Show your work.

chickelit said...

What did the Democrats do to deserve the great recesion brought on by Bush and Cheney?

Actually, except for some of the speculators brought low by the housing market bubble, my part of the world (military town) prospered economically under Bush Cheney.

I think the only geographic area which hasn't worsened under Obama is Washington, DC. Romeny/Ryan will help redistribute that wealth whence it came.

AReasonableMan said...

Alex said...
areasonableman - what did Bush do specifically that causes the Great Recession? Show your work.

I'm just saying that by comparison to Bush, Obama has been a marvellous success. Of course this would be true for pretty much any president other than Herbert Clark Hoover. They didn't call it the Great Depression for nothing.

ken in sc said...

I am 65 years old. I have never met a man who said he fantasized about raping someone. I have met many women who fantasized about being raped.

yashu said...

garage, glad to hear that, it's always nice to find common (or in some way overlapping, even if for very different reasons) ground.

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
my part of the world (military town) prospered economically under Bush Cheney.

You probably need to get out a little more. You are living in a government town, no different to Washington from an economic perspective.

AllieOop said...

Chickelit, I call bullshit on you saying my observation is disingenuous. I certainly am not alone in making this observation, it's what will lose this race for Republicans, but by ALL means cling to your social agenda Republicans.

Women have taken notice. So have Romney/ Ryan.

Revenant said...

What did the Democrats do to deserve the great recesion brought on by Bush and Cheney?

Judging from your question, I would say "they lived in fantasyland". :)

shiloh said...

hmm, step aside like Eagleton in '72?

Cons, I feel your pain! :)

chickelit said...

Allie: ...but by ALL means cling to your social agenda Republicans.

And you in turn, please cling to your the will defeat themselves by their social agenda-economics be damned strategy.

take care, blessings.

chickelit said...

Sorry Allie, I got carried away channeling Shilho. I meant
please cling to your "they-will-defeat-themselves-by-their-social agenda-economics-be-damned-strategy."

The Germans could make that into one big compound noun

William said...

There's a Catch 22 here. Akins can only prove that he has the judgement and sagacity we hope for in a Senator by not running at this time. If he runs, he shows himself to be pigheaded abd self righteous. He should take one for the team and cash his chit (not a misspelling) at a later date.....He's probably not a bad sort, but this election shouldn't be about probabilities of pregnancy in cases of rape. It's hard to imagine a more losing issue.....For all I know Cedarford is right about raped women being 6-7 times more likely to get pregnant, but I can see no practical way of incorporating that technique into a fertility clinic....If pro-lifers want to win their argument, they should studiously avoid including rape victims and their pregnancies in the discussion.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...

I'm just saying that by comparison to Bush, Obama has been a marvellous success. Of course this would be true for pretty much any president other than Herbert Clark Hoover. They didn't call it the Great Depression for nothing.


You mean except for the fact that there are millions of fewer people working and 40% more in federal debt which did not happen under Bush, right?

Note the utter inability to answer the question posed.

Gee, I wonder why that is?

traditionalguy said...

Their lack of interest in the truth is what stands out like a flashing light among the religious doctrine first believers that want to be elected as Conservatives.

Conserving superstition and myths that make men feel superior is not what Consrvative means.
It might help if they would care to get an education beyond old "male only preachers" fantasies.

This numb nuts would indeed rechain every female he could get his religious myths placed upon.

Naming a pluality vote getter under 50% as your winner is a big risk.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...

What did the Democrats do to deserve the great recesion brought on by Bush and Cheney?


Bush and Cheney didn't bring on any recession.

Idiot.

Windygirl said...

Is this guy for real??? OMFG. That people like this still exist is SCARY. Are people sure that he isn't horribly mentally ill... not normally mentally ill like somewhat depressed and problems being very social- like the completely checked out of reaility sticking bugs under their own skin because they are "pets that need to be kept safe" mentally ill- .... Wow, just wow.... That isn't a conservative, that is an F'in lunatic.

garage mahal said...

I just said something.

Notice you can't deny it in this very same post I'm typing?

IDIOT!

Revenant said...

Women have taken notice.

Women have had the vote for almost a hundred years and are only NOW noticing the Republican Party's position on abortion? Eesh.

Seriously, though, take a look at the latest Gallup poll on abortion attitudes.

A majority of women believe that abortion is morally wrong and should be either banned outright or restricted to only a few circumstances. The Democratic party position that abortion is morally acceptable has 39% support among women; its position that abortion should be legal in all circumstances has 29% support. Perhaps most importantly, the age demographics show that women age 18-34 are more pro-life than their mothers' generation is.

To sum up: there is no reason to believe the abortion issue is a net loss for Republicans among women in either the short or the long run.

traditionalguy said...

The social conservativs need to pass a law against raped women secreting a substance within them that aborts the innocent child.

Maybe police sould sedate them, tie them down, replace their blood with transfusions and and play nursey rhymes in their darkened room for 270 days to save the living baby citizen from mother REJECTION.

Babies have rights...a guardian and an attorney for the unborn baby could be required too. The Guardian could vote the unborn's ballot in elections.

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllieOop said...

Revenant, the Republican Party has been influenced unduly by the Relgious Right. Are you denying that they didn't have a huge influence on conservativism? I recall having discussions here on this blog with several conservative commenters who stated they hoped he influence ofthe RR was waning.

I live in Waukesha County in Wisconsin, the most conservative county in Wisconsin. 80% of the conservatives in my family and social circle are social liberals and fiscal conservatives. They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party.

yashu said...

I live in Waukesha County in Wisconsin, the most conservative county in Wisconsin. 80% of the conservatives in my family and social circle are social liberals and fiscal conservatives. They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party.

But doesn't this refute or at least complicate your own point? At the end of the day, the "influence" of any block of Republicans is dependent on the influence of actual Republican voters. The fact that Romney beat Santorum for the nomination is a significant datum.

Cf. the influence of a certain block of extreme "anti-war" Democrats. The fact that Democrats are willing to vote for a drone-bomb-dropping Obama is an indication of the limits of that extreme anti-war contingent's influence.

Revenant said...

Allie,

Revenant, the Republican Party has been influenced unduly by the Relgious Right. Are you denying that they didn't have a huge influence on conservativism?

Maybe you should read what I actually wrote?

I'm an atheist libertarian who thinks practically everything should be legal and free from government restriction. So yes, duh, I wish social conservatives had less influence in American politics. Where I differ from you is in recognizing that "I personally am against that" does not automatically imply "... and so are most other voters".

Since the Republicans hopped enthusiasticaly onto the SoCon bandwagon they have done much better than they did in the half-century prior. The idea that social conservatism is somehow deadly to their election chances simply isn't supported by empirical evidence.

They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party.

And yet the governor of Wisconsin is a Republican who is against both abortion and gay marriage.

Jay said...

AllieOop said...

I live in Waukesha County in Wisconsin, the most conservative county in Wisconsin. 80% of the conservatives in my family and social circle are social liberals and fiscal conservatives. They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party.


Your anecdotes, no matter how true they may be, are irrelevant.

AllieOop said...

Yashu, if there are more social liberals/fiscal conservatives then there are RR Conservatives, and the RR conservatives agenda makes Republicans lose the Presidential race, the rest of the conservatives will be mighty pissed. I know my son in law will be, he is a Capitalist with a capital C, does not want another 4 years of Obama, but sees this race slipping away to he Democrats.

I try to reassure him, but he is worried. I'm a good mother in law.

Rusty said...

So how come ted Kennedy was never held to this standard.

So the guy said some thing stupid. if we're gonna crucify him for this little faux pas then we should hang Biden right next to him.
I notice Biden isn't being asked to resign.

AllieOop said...

Revenant, so why have Romney /Ryan distanced themselves from this yahoo? Why is the Republican party throwing him under the bus?

Michael K said...

"AllieOop said...

I live in Waukesha County in Wisconsin, the most conservative county in Wisconsin. 80% of the conservatives in my family and social circle are social liberals and fiscal conservatives. They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party."

Tough. The Republicans have a big tent, unlike the Democrats who would not let Robert Casey address the Dem convention in the 90s.

That said, I think Akin has failed an IQ test (although he is an IBM engineer) in politics. He should withdraw by tomorrow. He should not have gotten into that toxic swamp of abortion.

Matt said...

Revenant

You are not taking into consideration the concept of the word 'choice'. MANY women who are personally opposed to abortion do not want to overturn the law and make abortion illegal. One can make a moral choice but understand that having the government step in and stop abortion is problemnatic. That is why abortion is still an issue.

AllieOop said...

Answer, because they are worried, same as my son In law, the Capitalist.

Revenant said...

You are not taking into consideration the concept of the word 'choice'.

Yes, I did. That's why I posted a link to the poll and data on women's position on the legality of abortion, not just their position on the morality of abortion.

shiloh said...

"That isn't a conservative, that is an F'in lunatic."

No, both mittens and Ryan have said they are in ((( favor ))) of the Personhood amendment. And even batshit crazy wingnuts in Mississippi voted the extreme measure down 58/42.

If the shoe fits ...

machine said...

"the Republicans have a big tent, unlike the Democrats..."


Chuckle.....

Revenant said...

Revenant, so why have Romney /Ryan distanced themselves from this yahoo? Why is the Republican party throwing him under the bus?

Answer, because they are worried, same as my son In law, the Capitalist.

The correct answer is "because he said that women who get pregnant from rape probably weren't really raped".

He isn't in trouble for thinking that there shouldn't be an abortion exception to rape. He's in trouble for claiming it wouldn't really ever come up! If he had said "innocent children deserve to live, regardless of how they were conceived" -- i.e., if he had echoed mainstream Christianity on the subject -- nobody would have batted an eye.

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
yashu said...

Allie, I'm sympathetic to and identify with your description of your son-in-law (though I'd say I'm a social libertarian rather than social liberal).

But one of the reasons I'm so enthusiastic about the Romney/Ryan campaign is that it largely seems tailored to voters like me, with my primary (economic) concerns at this moment in time.

In this election season, "social issues" are at the forefront for Democrats, not Republicans. NB I consider the whole Fluke contraception "access" issue (i.e. contraception payment issue) to be indicative of a radical progressive agenda, not a radical conservative one. In this case conservatives are defending the status quo, religious liberty and a bulwark against government top-down commands.

I opposed Santorum in the primaries because he was too much of a social conservative for me. I.e. it's not that he's too much of a social conservative personally
(that's not my concern), but I opposed him insofar as he foregrounded IMO extreme social conservatise views as public policy issues (and specifically issues he'd concern himself with from the presidential bully pulpit).

The Democrats will try to conflate Akin and Romney/Ryan, and who knows, they might squeeze something out of that. But you can't blame Romney/ Ryan for that: such a conflation is unfair and disingenuous. Romney/ Ryan are running to defend the interests and concerns of people like your son-in-law and me (and I'd argue Americans in general), not the POV represented by Akin's idiotic remarks.

AllieOop said...

Correct Revenant, and THAT makes them worried, because he isn't the only conservative in the Congress that has said the same thing in so many words and now it's coming back to bite them in the ass.

Cedarford said...

Allie - "80% of the conservatives in my family and social circle are social liberals and fiscal conservatives. They DO NOT like the influence the RR has had on the Republican Party."
===========
What makes "non-Fundie", non "Right to Life extremist" Republicans to regard them as anathema to independents and women - is not just the intolerance, the urge to mess with individual and family's deeply personal choices - but the dirt ignorance Religious Righters show at times when they are on display.

The Terri Schiavo Fiasco.

Shit about Noahs Ark being searched for, Old Testament Jews possibly might have seen dinosaurs...
Ignorant shit about women who don't enjoy being raped cannot get pregnant from the act.



Matt said...

Revenant

Right but the main statistic that sticks out to me is 50% of women are pro-choice and 44% are pro-life. One can usually break that down into Democrats and Republicans.

While ages 18 to 34 is 51% pro-choice to 42%, which indicates younger women are more pro-choice than older women.

Matt said...

Cedarford

You are correct. And where I live most liberals view conservatives as stereotypically social Christian conservative. That does hurt Republicans in some areas.

Michael K said...

"No, both mittens and Ryan have said they are in ((( favor ))) of the Personhood amendment. And even batshit crazy wingnuts in Mississippi voted the extreme measure down 58/42."

I know that leftists don't believe in federalism. In fact, I'm not sure they believe in US government sovereignty. That amendment pertains to state choice. Had the US Supreme Court left the law alone, we would not have this poisonous political atmosphere.

The GOP has the support of a lot of people (probably the majority) about abortion although Allie Oop is right that it is not about whether abortion should be legal.

The amendment, which will not get past Reid's Senate (and probably the House) unless the majority flips, only adds the right of states to decide. It has come up in a number of states but so far has not passed anywhere. It is a leftist bogeyman.

There is a feeding frenzy on the left right now. Akin needs to end it.

Michael K said...

" but the dirt ignorance Religious Righters show at times when they are on display."
Akin was an IBM engineer before Congress. What is your degree, again ?

"The Terri Schiavo Fiasco."

That was a big mistake by Santorum. Once I saw the MRI, I agreed but there was an issue of the husband and her family. That is neglected, of course.

"Shit about Noahs Ark being searched for, Old Testament Jews possibly might have seen dinosaurs...
Ignorant shit about women who don't enjoy being raped cannot get pregnant from the act. "

He didn't say that but the lie is around the world before the truth has it boots on.

Chris Wren said...

He should step aside, immediately. Romney and Ryan have a tough battle in the months ahead and the last thing they need is a backbencher handing Dear Leader free ammo.

Conserve Liberty said...

Though his comment is open to contextual nuance after-the-fact, it shows Akin's core, fundamental priority and belief. It wasn't a slip, a misstatement or misunderstood. There is NO ISSUE more important then ending legal abortion. Nothing.

These stiff-necked Catholics and fundamentalist Christians have ruined the Republican Party. Please, go back to the Democaats or make a new party - but leave us to our fiscal conservatism and social liberties.

Chip S. said...

Akin seems to be disappearing....

shiloh said...

Let the record show Michael K did not dispute my facts, ie mittens and Ryan are con extremists ... but he did "try" to deflect to leftist/federalism nonsense.

Congrats on not disputing the facts! :)

PETER V. BELLA said...

We have way too many stupid people in government. We do not need one more.

Michael K said...

"shiloh said...
Let the record show Michael K did not dispute my facts, ie mittens and Ryan are con extremists ... but he did "try" to deflect to leftist/federalism nonsense.

Congrats on not disputing the facts! :)"

You are not in the same area code with facts.

Idiot.

Eric said...

The Germans could make that into one big compound noun

And it wouldn't even be particularly long in the scheme of German nouns.

gadfly said...

I think he should resign at the same time that Joe Biden does.

Chip S. said...

Clearly the RNC is in favor of aborting Akin's candidacy, or else it doesn't believe that political life begins at the moment of election.

Either rationale works for me.

shiloh said...

Let the record show I hurt Michael K's feelings w/the facts. Althouse, give MK a hug!

Shanna said...

Bush and Cheney didn't bring on any recession.

I often find myself wondering…has no one at all heard of the business cycle?? Recessions are normal and cyclical. Leave them alone and they’ll cycle right out again. When they don’t, you’ve probably done something wrong.

We have way too many stupid people in government. We do not need one more.

Agreed. Although I wish we got rid of the stupid people on both side of the aisle equally.

Michael K said...

"shiloh said...
Let the record show I hurt Michael K's feelings w/the facts. Althouse, give MK a hug!
"

The last time I respond to you, kid. You don't make sense. You don't know anything but DNC talking points and don't even get those right.

Cedarford said...

Revenent - If he had said "innocent children deserve to live, regardless of how they were conceived" -- i.e., if he had echoed mainstream Christianity on the subject -- nobody would have batted an eye.

===================

This where RTLrs go seriously astray.
THey THINK it is mainstream Christian thought, as it always was expressed, to equate blastocysts and fetuses with "innocent children" then act out a moral obligation to preserve all blastocysts and fetuses created at ANY cost...as well as innocent children.

For most of the time of Christianity (and Islam) - miscarriages rated no special religious ceremony. They did not believe that a seed or a fetus had a soul that an innocent child did...and not even born babies were named in many Muslim and Christian cultures until there was confidence that the child was not defective, was string enough to not die early AND that adequate resources existed to feed it.

IN America, and we are now by far and away the most religious country for CHristianity (many Muslim nations have us beat by far on religiosity and using the State to enforce morality) - even here -

1. Devout Christians are a minority.
2. Many of those devout Christians have no problem with many reasons to abort (14 year old daughter gets knocked up, fetus is a genetic disaster doomed to die, rape or health and life of the Mother).
3. Many of those "devout Christians DEEPLY opposed to any abortion" are in fact people that are black and Devout Democrats.
4. Other devout Christians are equally devout about the notion of not trammelling other peoples liberties by trying to inflict their personal beliefs on all of society. People very angry at the Fundies and RTLrs over the Terri Schiavo Fiasco, of trying to force raped women to bear their rapist's child.


Charlie Eklund said...

Akin is a dope, on a par with that clown who said he'd been to 57 states already so there were only a few more to go. Who was that imbecile, anyway...?

shiloh said...

"The last time I respond to you"

MK, childishly attacking the messenger and not the message notwithstanding ... a very wise decision lol.

Indeed, when one does not have a rational retort it's always best to beg out.

btw, never say never, kid!

Revenant said...

THAT makes them worried, because he isn't the only conservative in the Congress that has said the same thing in so many words

I don't know if you're delusional or just exaggerating for partisan reasons. What I do know is that you won't be providing any examples of these "other conservatives in Congress" that have said rape doesn't cause pregnancy.

AprilApple said...

Ann Coulter says:

"The point I believe Akin was ultimately driving at was that this is a teeny-tiny percentage of all abortions, so why are we spending all our time taking about it? How about saying: “Yes, it’s still a life, but more people are killed in drive-by shootings in Chicago every year. You give us the 2 million abortions that aren’t a result of rape and incest and we’ll give you the few thousand that are.”

Instead, Akin rambled about “legitimate rape” – violating an ironclad rule of politicians that the word “legitimate” should never appear within 15 yards of the word “rape.” And he talked about the medical possibility of becoming pregnant from a single traumatizing rape.

He’s not a talk radio host. He’s not sitting around shooting the breeze in a college dorm room. This is a politician who should have a clear, nonthreatening answer at the ready for the most cliched question in the MSM’s playbook."

Revenant said...

While ages 18 to 34 is 51% pro-choice to 42%, which indicates younger women are more pro-choice than older women.

You need to take a less simplistic approach and look at what they think the actual law should be.

51% claim to be pro-choice, but only 40% believe abortion should be legal in all or most circumstances. Simply put, one in five "pro-choice" women of childbearing age is actually pro-life but chooses not to label herself that way. This isn't terribly surprising given how universal the news and entertainment media is in promoting the idea that "woman" is synonymous with "pro-choice".

Almost all the abortions in America are of accidental pregnancies resulting from consentual sex. 60% of women of child-bearing age think that kind of abortion should be illegal. Those are the facts; spin them as "pro-life" or "pro-choice" as you like.

Lindsey Meadows said...

"what the actual law(s) should be...."

Not drawn up by a mix of Roman Catholic Clergy and Republican oafs who are as afraid of the mysteries of a vagina as they are that they themselves don't "measure up".

Now we know how low the GOP sets the bar.....just another thing that measures 4 inches.

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