August 7, 2012

"He called non-whites 'dirt people,' and sent roses to his grandmother."

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a new and substantial article on the Sikh temple murderer, Wade M. Page:
Fred Allen Lucas, a Bloomington, Ind., man who served with Page at Fort Bragg, N.C., in a psychological operations battalion, recalled that he spoke of the need for securing a homeland for white people and referred to all non-whites as "dirt people."

"It didn't matter if they were black, Indian, Native American, Latin - he hated them all," Lucas said.

Lucas said he met Page in 1995, the same year that the killings of a black couple in Fayetteville by two members of the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg revealed the presence of a white-supremacist movement among soldiers on the base.

At the time, Lucas said, Page was covered with tattoos, including one that made a reference to the "14 words," a phrase used by white supremacists: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

"He criticized me for my attraction to (Latina) women," Lucas said. "He'd call me a 'race-traitor.' He said I should change my ways because I was a blond-haired, blue-eyed white guy, and I shouldn't be wasting myself on that."...

According to the Fayetteville Observer, he worked at a Harley-Davidson dealership as a parts coordinator, but was fired after a series of clashes - one involving his displeasure at taking orders from a female co-worker.

The newspaper quoted general manager John Tew as saying that, after Page was fired, he found an application for joining the Ku Klux Klan on Page's desk.

"I threw that in the trash can," Tew was quoted as saying. "He came back looking for it. And I told him I discarded that. He got all chapped again."

70 comments:

MadisonMan said...

These kind of stories fascinate me, because I always wonder: How do they get in touch with people like Fred Lucas. Does he contact the press and say he knows something, or does the Press track him down for comments? I have always wondered about that.

Because no way would I talk to the Press if some long-ago friend/acquaintance of mine went all postal sometime.

YoungHegelian said...

I wonder if the reporter or Lucas (source) got the exact words wrong. Or if the shooter (Page) got it wrong.

I have never, ever, in all my years on reading up on right-wing extremists seen the term "dirt people" for non-whites. I've always seen the term "mud people" used.

A google search of the term "dirt people" returns no hits, while the term "mud people" does. The term "mud people" is so well known that my wife's black supervisor used to jokingly ask my Jewish wife if she wanted to join the other "mud people" for lunch. He had a very strange sense of humor.

Cedarford said...

It was illustrative to me how the liberals and progressive Jews immediately labeled the white shooter as "Army Vet" and the attack as "domestic terrorism".

While:

1. Ignoring the Army threw him out 14 years ago as a drunk not fit to do duty.

2. Were in full NY Times agenda mode in other terror attacks involving Islamoids as being either "Workplace violence, not terrorism" or "the lone actions of a deranged individual in no way reflecting on The Religion of Peace".

chickelit said...

MadisonMan wrote: Because no way would I talk to the Press if some long-ago friend/acquaintance of mine went all postal sometime.

I'll bet you don't care for Andy Warhol's opinion on that either. Good on you.

cold pizza said...

Did anyone else other than me notice the RAAAACIST!(tm) Google page today? I mean, just sayin' it looks like the black hurdler is running down a track made of watermelon! -CP

Free@Last said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
LarsPorsena said...

"..He served approximately from 1992 to 1998, and was assigned to psychological operations - the specialists who analyze, develop and distribute intelligence used for information and psychological effect.

"That is very exclusive," said John Liebert, a psychiatrist who performs fitness examinations for the military and is an expert on suicidal mass murderers. "It's like going from the lobby to the 20th floor..."

LOL! It looks like he was first assigned to an Air Defense Missile battery but soon ran afoul of the military. He probably lost the security clearance needed for the missile job so he was 'transferred' to the 'special' unit.

This guy painted rocks or cut grass in the Psy-Ops group until someone was willing to do the paperwork to through him out.

Marshal said...

I don't think it adds much, other than that his racism has been rather open for a long time.

It makes you wonder how he was selected for psyops. I realize he didn't last long, but you have to pass psychologocal tests to join that specialty. How was he identified as a candidate?

LarsPorsena said...

MOBY ALERT. An inept one too.

garage mahal said...

Right wing extremism in U.S. more deadly than Al Qaeda since 9/11? . Wow. No way?

traditionalguy said...

So he hated Hispanics too.

Spain's descendants were not white enough for him. Wrong language or what?

Sikhs are Caucasians, but they were not white enough for him. Wrong language or what?

If someone had told him Jesus was Jewish, would the racial purity thought make Christians his targets, despite the language?

Dietrich Bonhoeffer found out that it certainly does when the Nazi terrorists made a final point to clean up and hung him for his Christian faith 8 days before the Allied Armies rolled into town.

The idiot also wanted to join the KKK. After 1914 the revived KKK was a secret political club reformed in the south and the mid-west as a terrorist attack force on whites who treated blacks as equals, and a suppression of Catholics and Jews.

Eric said...

Were in full NY Times agenda mode in other terror attacks involving Islamoids as being either "Workplace violence, not terrorism" or "the lone actions of a deranged individual in no way reflecting on The Religion of Peace".

That's a good point. When Maj Nidal Hassan gunned down all those people at Fort Hood while shouting "Allah akbar" their response was to say "Hmmmm. No idea why he would do that. It's a real head scratcher. What a sad, troubled guy."

The Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rockeye said...

I can't help but observe that after only a few days we have heard from more of this murderer's acquaintances from his long-ago US Army days than we have from acquaintances from Obama's days in college. As to his being in an "exclusive" unit, that depends. If he were actually a Psyops Specialist that is one thing. However, my wife was in the 6th Psyops Group back in the day, and she ran a printing press. Every Army unit no matter how "exclusive" has a lot of mundane Joes and Janes doing mundane jobs. On the other hand, I knew someone with a top secret clearance who was fairly open about his Aryan Nation membership.

The Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Farmer said...

Those dirty sons of bitches in the New York controlled media were probably responsible for the cancellation of Human Target.

Marshal said...

I see nothing's to slimy for garage. Does he post here because he recognizes his uselessness so accurately he understands his meaningless prattle is the best contribution he can make to his ideology?

The Crack Emcee said...

cold pizza,

Did anyone else other than me notice the RAAAACIST!(tm) Google page today? I mean, just sayin' it looks like the black hurdler is running down a track made of watermelon! -CP

I did - my exact thought - and then I put it out of my mind. Blacks do rule the sport, and the track is red on a field of green. Laterz.

I don't care about the Sikh shooter's racial views. They bore me.

It pains me someone wasn't around to talk some good sense into that young man,...

Patrick said...

Garage,

Not that I want to be on Moby's side, but I think equating "racist" with "conservative" is wrong, and a little too easy. I assume in your offline life, you are friends with, or at least know people who call themselves conservatives. I'm willing to bet that none of them are racist, (unless you equate disapproval of affirmative action with racism).

Rockeye said...

I also knew plenty of guys in "black pride" organizations that make the Black Panthers look like the Kiwanis. Racist beliefs in the military are far from an exclusively white thing.

YoungHegelian said...

@Garage,

Does it surprise anyone that domestic extremists, of the right and left, have an easier time of causing mischief than Islamoid imports?

It's also strange that Bergen stops his analysis of "Terror Attacks" at the US border, because if he expands out to the world at large, his analysis becomes, well, utter bullshit.

And, if racist attacks by whites on blacks & hispanics count as "right wing terror" do racist attacks by blacks & hispanics on whites count as "left wing terror".

I expected better from Bergen than this. This is just him sucking Democratic dick, to put it bluntly.

Michael said...

Garage: Thanks for the link to the CNN article. Did you read it? His own math refutes the question in the headline even taking into account the so-called plans of "right wingers" which were not off set by the so-called plans of AQ which were not enumerated.

White supremicist does not, by the way, equal right wing. Not even far right wing. White supremacists in the deep south are Democrats through and through. Always have been. Wisconsin-based white supremacists could be a different matter but you could speak to that.

bagoh20 said...

Garage, I hope they are paying you well, because you do a hell of a job there. No slacker, you, no sir. We did miss you on that vacation though, but I hear the DNC throws down a killer sweatlodge.

AJ Lynch said...

Mad Man:

Google HARO. It is an organization that connects reporters to sources. I never heard of it until today when I read a story about a jokester who used HARO to pull the wool over many reporters' eyes.

bagoh20 said...

" a homeland for white people"

Aren't there already a few of those in Europe they could go to? They have beer in Europe too.

Patrick said...

To the few that try to bait me

No, it's pretty much everybody.

traditionalguy said...

The nuts that fall for White Race Purity pogroms are NOT right wingers.

They are Cult Captives Wingers. Which means they are mentally ill by choice, and very dangerous.

So we need to quit defending their suicide by cop acts with "so did the liberals" and "so did the Muslims" apolegetics as if they are right wingers just like Garage and Alpha take for granted. Fall out of agreement with Garage and Alpha!

They use political Jiu Jitsu throwing us in the direction we were leaning, and we are letting them win the match on points.

Marshal said...

traditionalguy said... If someone had told him Jesus was Jewish, would the racial purity thought make Christians his targets, despite the language?


Many if not most white supremacists aren't Christian. Many follow the Hitlerian mysticism nonsense, others are satanists / atheists.

So he hated Hispanics too.

Spain's descendants were not white enough for him. Wrong language or what?


Probably the mixing with the native Americans, but possibly the mixing during the Andalusian occupation. They talk about race but it's a grab bag of mush similar to the Palestinian claim of racism for Romney's cultural criticism between them and Jews.

YoungHegelian said...

@Free,

It may not deter you in the least, but you really are boring.

You may notice that our true, indigenous right wing conspiracy buffs here at Chez Althouse have their own distinct hobby horses. You, sir, seem to have none.

We've seen our share of right- & left- wing conspirators here, and you just don't pass the smell test.

If you're a true wingnut, please tell us -- what blogs do you follow? What book has shaped your world-view?

Be careful -- because there will be a test afterwards.

creeley23 said...

I'm with YoungHegelian @4:02. I've done a fair amount of research on white supremacists/neo-nazis and never run across the term "dirt people." My bet is that Page's colleague misremembered and the journalists didn't bother to check. "Mud people" is the proper term of abuse.

Fayetteville, NC was a nerve center for white supremacy. Probably still is. That's where my friend got into trouble.

Michael K said...

"garage mahal said...

Right wing extremism in U.S. more deadly than Al Qaeda since 9/11? . Wow. No way?
"

garage got his climax for the day.

YoungHegelian said...

@Free,

'The Bible"

Then you're either a complete idiot or a moby.

"The New York controlled media and the Multi-Culturalist Leviatan that has taken over this country is going to use this event to legislate thought control."

Where did you find that in the Bible (aside from the word "Leviathan")? Some Pauline epistle, perhaps?

garage mahal said...

I see nothing's to slimy for garage. Does he post here because he recognizes his uselessness so accurately he understands his meaningless prattle is the best contribution he can make to his ideology?

I posted a contemporary article from a mainstream media source directly relevant to the post. Provocative perhaps. Did you read the article?

We've had a good taste of right wing extremism in Wisconsin this past year. If it were leftists bombing oil pipelines or the like, instead of Planned Parenthood clinics, it would be pretty hard to deny the existence of.

edutcher said...

The major at Hood, Orangehair, and Chrome Dome all acted alone, the press was quick to tell us.

How many days went by and there were theories about this guy's accomplices?

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger YoungHegelian, how many times has our blogress told you 'don't feed the trolls'?

The Farmer said...

LarsPorsena said...
Blogger YoungHegelian, how many times has our blogress told you 'don't feed the trolls'?


Teacher's pet.

YoungHegelian said...

@Lars,

"Don't feed the trolls"

True 'dat. I'll stop.

After all, I think we've already got our proper share here of political conspiracy buffs.

bagoh20 said...

If you're a true wingnut, please tell us -- what blogs do you follow?

Althouse.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...Did you read the article?

I read it. Does it make you feel better that some other lefties are as useless as you?

Missed your condemnation of Alpha Liberal for cheering on mass murder. Are you still composing or should we conclude you're giving up that tenet of your philosophy since you'd have to criticize a fellow nut?

A. Shmendrik said...

"It didn't matter if they were black, Indian, Native American, Latin - he hated them all," Lucas said.

A little different way
of putting it, starting at about 0:56.

Eric said...

Right wing extremism in U.S. more deadly than Al Qaeda since 9/11? . Wow. No way?

As always, it depends on who's doing the accounting. The method this journalist used seems to be "we'll count anyone who isn't explicitly a Socialist or Islamist as 'right wing'." He missed his calling as an economist. They make more money for ginning up phoney statistics.

rhhardin said...

It's all entertainment.

Its cost is that you get another one and another one by copycatting, which perhaps makes it all stable.

The narrative that's most successful as a narrative, success meaning audience eyeballs, generates more of the same.

garage mahal said...

re you still composing or should we conclude you're giving up that tenet of your philosophy since you'd have to criticize a fellow nut?

No idea what you're talking about. A link would probably help?

Marshal said...

A link would probably help?

Some honestly and the ability to reason would help more. Why don't you work on those?

garage mahal said...

Some honestly and the ability to reason would help more.

I'm trying to be honest and reason although you've given me nothing to work with.

David said...

A cold welcome to our newest moby, free-at-last.

Ignore him.

creeley23 said...

If someone had told him Jesus was Jewish, would the racial purity thought make Christians his targets, despite the language?

No. White supremacy splits into neo-Nazi and Christian Identity camps. The neo-Nazis are used to getting along, after a fashion, with Christians. Both groups think much more in terms of race than religion.

I wouldn't claim to be an authority on white supremacist Christianity (Christian Identity) but in that belief system white Europeans are the true descendants of the Biblical Israelites and they are God's Chosen People. Today's Jews have nothing to do with it.

As my friend explained, when you read the Bible, every time you see the Chosen People, substitute the White Race, then it all falls into place. My friend considered himself to be an Israelite, a Soldier of Yahweh.

YoungHegelian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
YoungHegelian said...

Oh, so now there's an article at CNN saying that there are hundreds of white supremacist groups active in the US. Here's the link.

And who is there only source for this assertion? Why the SPLC, of course! A group whose continued existence depends on exaggerating the threat from these groups.

It's amazing just how gullible the press can be when a meme follows their prejudices.

Cedarford said...

The Farmer said...
Hey, Free@Last, does the New York controlled media love bagels and matzo and have big noses?

===============
A good chunk are...though I have never seen a genuine love of matzo crackers.
The point being that while not all promoting the leftist transformation agenda of the NY and West Coast mass media are NOT Jewish, a good healthy chunk are. Far in excess of their % of population numbers.
Half the Bolsheviks were Jewish, despite being 3% of the Soviet population.
Half the American Communist leadership was Jewish, despite 3% of the US population.
Jews are perhaps 30% of the owners and string-pullers in American mas media.
Not terrible in and of itself - Jews are overrepresented in other fields as well, just as blacks are in pro basketball..just how it is..

But when the news is manipulated by those with a long tradition of radicalism and wanting a less traditional America - disproportionate influence is a matter of concern.
We would be more willing to say it out loud if Southern White Baptists dominated much of the US legal system...or we found that Chinese-Americans at <1% of the population with a pro-CHina agenda, made up 43% of the bankers at Goldman Sachs.

YoungHegelian said...

@creeley23,

The Identity Christians make hay of the linguistic fluke that the word "British" in mangled Hebrew is "Man of the Covenant."

It should be Ish (Man) Brit (Covenant) to be correct (as in Bnai Brit (Sons of the Covenant), but, hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a cool wingnut theory!

creeley23 said...

Cedarford @5:44 essentially presents the rationale that white supremacists offer (minus cult beliefs) for their antisemitism.

Which is not to say that Cedarford is an antisemite or white supremacist.

Tibore said...

"traditionalguy said...
The nuts that fall for White Race Purity pogroms are NOT right wingers.

They are Cult Captives Wingers. Which means they are mentally ill by choice, and very dangerous.

So we need to quit defending their suicide by cop acts with "so did the liberals" and "so did the Muslims" apolegetics as if they are right wingers just like Garage and Alpha take for granted. Fall out of agreement with Garage and Alpha!

They use political Jiu Jitsu throwing us in the direction we were leaning, and we are letting them win the match on points."


TradGuy is right: This guy is to conservatives as Mike Tyson is to Muslims, Madonna (the singer) is Catholics, or Ariana Huffington used to be to Republicans: A label of convenience, not one earned by action and true belief.

This guy was a nut who embraced things that are appalling to even the deepest conservative, and knew nothing about liberty because he knew nothing about differences and living with them. He knows nothing about allowing the individual to show their worth through actions instead choosing to categorize them based on race and not inherent qualities or demonstrations of actions. He knew nothing about making onesself rise above adversity through hard work (evidenced by his serial failures at jobs), and nothing of discipline at all. He certainly knew nothing about taking personal responsibility, instead choosing to focus hatred on ethnic groups. So, I'm sorry, but he fails the test. He does not fit the criteria. He's not a politically right guy.

And no, this isn't a No True Scotsman excuse. It's actually applying elements of the core definition.

This guy was a radical. He was an extremist. That's the accurate characterization of this twisted soul. So TradGuy is right: Don't surrender the definition. He's not one of us. Not if he's judging people by race instead of allowing individuals to demonstrate intrinsic worth, and certainly not if he's terminally unable to improve himself with hard work and discipline. That's the antithesis of being a political conservative in America.

Pogo said...

Unexpectedly, when schools and the gubmint push identity politics, you get some pretty nasty Balkanization.

They wanted racialist thinking, they got racialist thinking.

Whoda thunk?

Ann Althouse said...

Free@last is considered a Moby around here. I'm just deleting the posts without reading them. Please don't respond. I'm taking down things that include the name.

dbp said...

I think YoungHegelian said has got it right: I've never come across "dirt people" but have heard the term "mud people".

Actually the way I heard it was from a Ph.D candidate in our lab who called herself "mud colored". She was an astonishingly ravishing combination of filipino, hawaiian, hispanic and some other I no longer remember.

garage mahal said...

Althouse, how do you know Free@ is a moby?

Paco Wové said...

The user "Free@Last" has also posted as "Bob from outside of Detroit", "Dane County Taxpayer", "Maximum Twine", and "Tidy Righty", invariably to pop off some over-the-top bit of racism. It's pretty clear when read in context that the user is Mobying.

Paco Wové said...

"Which is not to say that Cedarford is an antisemite"

That's ok. We all already know Cedarford's an antisemite.

traditionalguy said...

Thanks Tibore.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
I'm trying to be honest and reason


Turning over a new leaf?


Right wing extremism in U.S. more deadly than Al Qaeda since 9/11? . Wow. No way?

I guess not.

Crimso said...

I have heard the term "dirt people" used to refer to environmentalists. "Mud people" is a new one on me.

Michael said...

I would guess that our crack press would by now be able to associate this guy with a supremicist group, a named group. But i havent read anywhere the name of his "organization". He was in a couple of headbanging skinhead bands with skinhead tastes. Does that count as being in a hate group?

Eric said...

And who is there only source for this assertion? Why the SPLC, of course!

That gurgling sound you hear is CNN's credibility going down the drain.

wildswan said...

Was this political? This guy got demoted by the Army and was not allowed to re-enlist. Then he lost his good job. Then he lost his girl and his bad job. Then he shot up a Sikh house of religion. The Sikhs are Hindu not Moslem but I doubt if he knew that. I know everything is politicized but I still hold by the saying "How small a part of all the human heart endures/ The part that kings or laws can cause or cure." Wasn't he just a loser? Wouldn't it be better to try to understand the Sikhs than this idiot?

creeley23 said...

Tibore @6:18: My friend who went white supremacist was an Eagle Scout and a Green Beret. He knew plenty about hard work and discipline. He was not mentally ill. And he certainly was a right-winger.

I don't believe that Republicans and conservatives have to answer for nuts like Wade M. Page anymore than Democrats and leftists have to answer for Lee Harvey Oswald. It's a bogus argument.

Free@Last said...

Prof Althouse,
Your blog is one of my favorites.

traditionalguy said...

Wildswan... That is what losers do when they turn in on themselves in search of an acceptible identity.

They join threat cults that give them the identity of being a loyal part of a killing group defending the rest of us ignorant folks that cannot see the evil in non-whites all around us.

And a leader willing to command their personal loyalty to him to the death is all they lack to create a Fourth Reich.

They are ignorant of God's love and grace which is considered a weaknes or an enemy trick, so they hate the most the whites who show love and grace to non-whites.

My sincere suggestion is that you never join them, even if the try to appear reasonable like the John Birch Society proclaiming that only they know the secret truths about the conspiracy.

Sorun said...

Maybe brown people are not "dirt people" but "earth people". Leonard Jeffries, a New York City College professor, considers blacks to be "sun people" and whites are "ice people." There's kind of Buddhist classical elements thing going on.

Robert Cook said...

I blame the liberal leftists.