August 7, 2012

"[A] steady subculture of racist and anti-Semitic rock bands has existed on the margins of punk and heavy metal in Europe and the United States since at least the 1970s."

Writes the NYT, in the aftermath of the Sikh temple shoootings.
In an interview posted on the Web site of the record company Label56, [Wade M.] Page mentioned going to Hammerfest, an annual white-supremacist festival well known to civil rights advocates. He also said he played in various neo-Nazi bands, including Blue Eyed Devils, whose song “White Victory” includes the lines: “Now I’ll fight for my race and nation/Sieg Heil!” The company removed the interview from its site on Monday.

Analysts for the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security routinely monitor violent extremist Web sites of all kinds, including those attracting white supremacists, according to former officials of both agencies. But the department’s work on the topic has been criticized. In 2009, conservatives in Congress strongly objected to a department report titled “Rightwing Extremism,” which speculated that the recession and the election of a black president could increase the threat from white supremacists.

Janet Napolitano, the homeland security secretary, withdrew the report and apologized for what she called its flaws. Daryl Johnson, the homeland security analyst who was the primary author of the report, said last year that after the flap, the number of analysts assigned to track non-Islamic militancy had been reduced sharply. Homeland Security Department officials denied his assertion and said the department monitored violent extremism of every kind, without regard to its religious or political bent.

63 comments:

wef said...

Again with quoting the lickspittles at the power-apologizing and power-worshiping nytimes.

BarryD said...

Pissed off that there's a President who is only half-Irish, spurred on by bad music, a suicidal shooter kills a group of Sikhs.

Uh... I think we have to come to grips with the fact that the acts of the truly criminally insane are not exactly predictable, and certainly not rational.

chickelit said...

Public Enemy's Chuck D in Fight The Power (1989):

Elvis was a hero to most but he never meant shit to me you see, straight up racist that sucker was, simple and plain, mother fuck him and John Wayne.

edutcher said...

So, um, what part of Orangehair and Chrome Dome's reasons for shooting people had to do with white supremacy?

The Gray Lady and the rest of the Lefty media are so freaking desperate to play the race card this year, they're going to grab any straw they can.

Lyle said...

Up until this, white supremacists haven't been much of a problem. And focusing in on Islamist terrorist threats couldn't even catch Major Nadal Hassan who was military as well. At least the military kicked the white supremacist out.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Yesterday at Memeorandum many of the links had headlines which labeled the shooter as an "ex-Army veteran", presumably to subconsciously nudge the reader into associating him with a militia group.

Rather than refer to him as an "ex-Army veteran", what if the headlines referred to the shooter as a "former government employee" instead - and waited until later in the reporting to introduce the idea that he's ex-Army?

For those people who for whatever reason don't read past the headline, substituting "former government employee" for "ex-Army veteran" would not induce the reader to subconsciously associate him with militias.

Bryan C said...

"Public Enemy's Chuck D in Fight The Power"

Yep.

While racism and anti-semitism is a marginal subculture among punk and heavy metal, it's thoroughly in the mainstream of rap and hip-hop.

BarryD said...

"For those people who for whatever reason don't read past the headline, substituting "former government employee" for "ex-Army veteran" would not induce the reader to subconsciously associate him with militias."

Yeah, but the unconscious association might have been bad for the postal service, which is going through some tough times.

AlphaLiberal said...

Thanks for pointing out, Ann, how the right wing took offense that DHS would monitor potentially violent extremists. I am pleasantly surprised that you would post this.

Maybe the right wing will reflect internally about why they identify with violent extremists, as opposed to siding with the American people? It's almost an admission of guilt that they have run interference for people who would massacre innocents.

Nah, they won't reflect on a damned thing.

And, actually, they have killed and hurt other people, including the murders by Shauna Ford and others.

Republicans Blasted Obama Administration For Warning About Right-Wing Domestic Terrorism

AlphaLiberal said...

Here is another example of deadly right wing extremist violence. In this case, anti-immigrant.

Ms. Thomas and fellow jurors were told during the trial that Ms. Forde and accomplices gained entry to the Flores home with the expectation of finding drugs there, which could be sold to finance Minutemen American Defense's border-control operations. Finding no drugs, the intruders made away with inexpensive jewelry but, prosecutors said, not before fatally shooting young Brisenia and Mr. Flores. Both victims were American citizens born in the US.

But, hey, man. Those were brown people killed. So you will hear no denunciation from the right wing of Shauna Forde.

Speaking of, have any right wingers denounced the white supremacists that the Oak Creek shooter (won't use his name) was involved with? I have not seen it.

However, we have seen attacks on the Southern Poverty Law Center from conservatives. Attack SPLC, do not criticize white supremacists. Sick.

Pogo said...

Release the Scapegoaten!

tim maguire said...

Alpha, have you ever thought, just once, just for fun, of posting in good faith? Really, give it a go. You might be surprised at what happens.

AlphaLiberal said...

Liberal Hunting Permit: Another example of the hate and propensity for violence from the right wing. No wonder they identify with violent groups.

And here is a sad example of real, deadly violence against liberals, because they were liberals.

"Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats, gunman Jim David Adkisson fired a shotgun at members of the congregation during a youth performance of a musical, killing two people and wounding seven others."

In 2010 we had the California shooter who was on his way to shoot up the Tides Foundation and got stopped by cops and shot them, instead. Tides had been spotlighted by hate radio talked Glenn Beck and others.

No voices from the Right calling on this hate talk to end. No condemnation of white supremacists or hate groups. Instead, they attack the SPLC.

This list goes on and on and on. With every new hate killing, the excuses from the enablers of the right go on and on and on. For all their posturing, the right wing is deeply immoral.

chickelit said...

AlphaLibeler, seconf in line to blame Sarah Palin for the Gabby Giffords shooting: link

AlphaLiberal said...

I am posting in good faith, Tim. I believe every word I say,

Our government was trying to warn us about these groups that keep killing. They will probably kill again. And you guys will attack the people who warn us, whether it is DHS or SPLC.

Bruce Hayden said...

Maybe the right wing will reflect internally about why they identify with violent extremists, as opposed to siding with the American people? It's almost an admission of guilt that they have run interference for people who would massacre innocents.

I would ask this of the left, but don't, because most there, including I suspect you, are notoriously unintrospective. But, maybe we can start out with the Occupy movement. Appears to be, according to police reports, far more violent and law breaking than the skin heads have been recently (not that most conservatives support skinheads, because they don't - remember, Hitler was a socialist). And, yet, we have President Obama, Minority Leader Pelosi, and a host of other Democratic leaders endorsing the Occupy movement and its participants. And, yes, the fawning leftist press, which not surprisingly failed to report the dark side of the movement, and ignored most of the associated crime and violence.

traditionalguy said...

When their story is based on facts, then hating the NYT for writing it down is not a relevant response.

The issue is what makes rejected , socially retarded, loners into Warriors For Whites that may decide on a bad day to go out in a blaze of gunfire(suicide by police) while Gotterdammerung plays in their heads.

There are answers to that question. But scapegoating the dead Indian Sikhs, or the SPLC, or the NYT for what happened is a waste of time at best and a supporting of the mentally ill skinhead as another victimized white gunman under media attack.

If you are a sympathiser with Adolf Hiltler's struggle, then join the white power groups or not. Make up your minds. C-4 will welcome you into his brotherhood and you will not be alone in your struggles anymore.

AlphaLiberal said...

Chickelit, you lie. I did not "blame Palin" for the shooter, I said:

Can we please drop the hysteria now? All the "reload," drawing targets on people, describing opponents as traitors, all of it that we've heard for years. Just STFU already.

There are fragile minds and hateful minds out there, damn it. Show some responsibility.


And events since then have proven me right.

Again, where is the conservative denunciation of these hate groups? There is none. They are too busy denouncing and trying to silence the people who try to warn us of the hate groups. This helps the hate groups.

BarryD said...

"I am posting in good faith, Tim. I believe every word I say,"

Exactly, Tim. Not everyone who sounds unhinged and remarkably stupid is being disingenuous.

There's a reason why we sometimes have to fall back on the phrase, "Defies parody."

AlphaLiberal said...

Burce Hayden, are you kidding me? the left is "unintrospective?" Do you actually know any liberals? The tendency is to be way too introspective, too willing to criticize ourselves and each other.

But, by all means, show us the conservative leaders who have criticized the white supremacists, the calls for violence.

Crimso said...

"Can we please drop the hysteria now?"

So what caused you to change your mind since then?

chickelit said...

@Alpha: If you're ashamed of your old comments then delete them. Then I won't be able to link to them.

AlphaLiberal said...

Barry D, that is a response devoid of substance, a simple insult.

Can you show us the denunciations from the right of the white supremacists and violent extremists or criticisms of calls for violence that are so common from the right?

At best you might find a handful, and they pale next to the tower of attacks on DHS and SPLC.

Since I started arguing over these issues with conservatives here and elsewhere, many people have died. That you guys are offended by a simple request to tone down the violence-laced rhetoric speaks volumes about you, not me.

Palin and others have contributed to this culture of violence from the right wing. That's what I said back when and my point has only been proven.

And you know damn well if the shoe was on the other foot you guys would be screaming bloody murder.

Marshal said...

"edutcher said...
So, um, what part of Orangehair and Chrome Dome's reasons for shooting people had to do with white supremacy?"

Why are you so focused on fighting Page's white supremacy? Linking this attack to white supremacy doesn't say anything about you or conservatism. Yes, the media has a double standard when they deny Hassan was motivated by Islam, but that doesn't invalidate the white supremacist link in the current attack. So why not point out the double standard without denying the white supremacist angle? It makes you look like you're eager to defend white supremacy.

The fact that idiots are attacking something doesn't mean it deserves to be defended.

William said...

I have no problem with the authorities keeping tabs on such groups. Why does the left have such a problem when the government keeps a weather eye on leftist extremists?.....Also I would say that this excrement's political beliefs are far more distant from mainstream conservative thought than, say, Bill Ayers is from mainstream liberal thought.

garage mahal said...

[Wade M.] Page mentioned going to Hammerfest, an annual white-supremacist festival

Chris Christie will delivering the keynote address at this year's festival.

I kid. I kid.

AlphaLiberal said...

Really, Chickelit, do you have any reading comprehension skills? I am not at all ashamed of my comments. That's why I reposted them, above.

To stir up hysteria and invoke language of violence and shooting in politics is deeply reckless and irresponsible. Palin did it, Ted Nugent does it - with no-one in the GOP rejecting it. This violent language is embraced by all of the Republican Party leadership.

Of course, if someone said "we should blow away Mitt Romney" you guys would get the vapors.

Sorun said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sorun said...

Note that the NYT used the word "steady" rather than "growing" or "rising." I'd guess they were pretty unimpressed with the size of the white power movement.

Hey Alphafa Liberal, are you white? I'm waiting for white leaders to stand up and apologize.

AlphaLiberal said...

Crimso:
"So what caused you to change your mind since then?"

I didn't.

And I have yet to see one person here post an example of a conservative leader denouncing the White Supremacists groups or extremist hate groups. Apparently, you can't any such examples.

Why is that do you think, that conservative leaders are so unwilling to criticize violent people, or even so comfortable with them?

They won't even criticize calls for violence against liberals, even after liberals are gunned down.

Shauna Forde, at least, will fry. One of your precious "Minutemen" leaders.

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

AlphaLiberal:
I am posting in good faith, Tim. I believe every word I say.

In a decent society that admission ought to be enough to land you in the rubber room, AL.

chickelit said...

[amended]

Marshall wrote: Why are you so focused on fighting Page's white supremacy?

I for one will not defend scum like the neo-Nazi who shot up the Sikh Temple. But there's little that I can personally do about that. I am a member of this forum and I do react to bad faith commenters like Alpha Liberal who try to link past and present politicians to these sorts of atrocities because of their political agenda and shameless methodology. I cannot bear to sit back and watch that.

Sorry if that offends anyone here.

Bruce Hayden said...

I am just surprised that the skin heads, neo-Nazis, Klan, et al. have not made more of a resurgence, in response to the most racist Administration probably since LBJ. Probably doesn't reach the level of Woodrow Wilson (who resegregated the federal government) or Andrew Johnson (who killed reconstruction), but still quite the racist Administration, and esp. the Department of Justice, though it isn't limited to that Department.

And, yet, mostly, we hear of these groups in prisons, as a way of protecting against Black and Hispanic gangs there.

Spent some time recently in N. Idaho, formerly the hotbed of militias and white supremacy. The white supremacists and militias who formerly hung out by Hayden Lake have been pushed out of the area by its close proximity to tony Coeur d'Alene. And, Ruby Ridge, while still close to the Canadian border, is only 15-20 miles away from booming Sandpoint (and, yes, that is where Sarah Palin was born). Do have a friend who lives between the two, and who probably has thousands of rounds of ammo stored there. But, he is much more likely to be lobbying on the Hill in favor of small start ups than participating in the militia movement.

Looks to me like those fringe groups may have moved themselves to Wisconsin, maybe because they are more tolerant of deviant behavior there. We shall see how this plays out.

Michael Haz said...

Alpha - Show me the white liberals who have condemned the Kennedy family for killing and abusing women.

garage mahal said...

Looks to me like those fringe groups may have moved themselves to Wisconsin, maybe because they are more tolerant of deviant behavior there. We shall see how this plays out.

Wisconsin has been a hotbed of extremism this past year. One dude attempted to kill a Planned Parenthood doctor, another dude tried to firebomb a PP clinic, and one dude was just arrested for planning to blow up a Democratic party office. And now Page.

I wonder if chickelit sees any connections.

Colonel Angus said...

Thanks for pointing out, Ann, how the right wing took offense that DHS would monitor potentially violent extremists

I distinctly recall a raft of outrage from the left side of the aisle when we dared suggest we monitor Islamic groups after 9/11.

Marshal said...

chickelit:

I looked through your comments on this thread and I don't see anything I would describe as fighting the link to white supremacy, so don't take my comment as directed at yours.

OTOH edutcher and others arguably denying the link is exactly what gives AL and the rest of the assholes the opportunity to brand them and those they support as white supremacist sympathizers.

The leftist nuts are praying something will create a link between conservatives and this attack, and some people are inadvertently giving it to them. Can you not see the glee in AL's writing?

On a slightly different note garage seems to think it damning that Republicans would concievably be helped by a poor economy and charges them with rooting against America even though there is no actual evidence they do so. So in this case shouldn't we see garage criticizing AL for rooting for mass murders?

Crimso said...

'One of your precious "Minutemen" leaders'

Mine?!?! You, sir, are a baldfaced liar. Did you actually mean to make such an accusation, or was it an honest mistake?

Colonel Angus said...

Based upon what I have read by Alpha Liberal on this thread, he evidently believes being conservative or right wing equates with being pro white supremacy/violent hate groups. His juvenile opinions really aren't worth responding to.

Alex said...

So are we going to outlaw anti-semitic rock bands? That's one thing I love about America and our 1A - we allow the most odious among us a voice at the table.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Nobody needs to denounce mass murder. I'm pretty sure virtually every sane person agrees it is a travesty. That makes it absurd, on its face, to single out half the country and expect them to specifically denounce a massacre.

And suggesting that failure to denounce a mass murder implies they condone it is repulsive.

But for the record, mass murder is not part of the conservative agenda. The liberal agenda, however, is directly responsible for the mass murder about 50 million preborn children since 1973.

Feel better?

Christopher in MA said...

To stir up hysteria and invoke language of violence and shooting in politics is deeply reckless and irresponsible.

Go tell that to your "punch back twice as hard" crackhead in chief. You know, the one who told a Hispanic audience that the right was their enemy? The one who told bankers that he was all that stood between them and the pitchforks?

And funny, I recall not only Preezy Choom and Nancy Pelosi saying nothing about the cop car-befouling, raping, vandalizing Occupy movement, but actually praising it.

So pull the log out of your own damned eye before complaining about a splinter in ours.

Bruce Hayden said...

Can you show us the denunciations from the right of the white supremacists and violent extremists or criticisms of calls for violence that are so common from the right?

Huh? I think that the reason that I questioned whether you and the rest of the left were introspective is that you keep spouting this sort of thing. It is almost as if enough leftist tell each other something, it becomes a new truth. And, in this case, if you all tell each other stories about right wing calls for violence, that it will magically turn into reality.

Sure, there are some on the fringes, but they stay on the fringes, compared to the left where calls to violence have gone mainstream, with your leaders actively calling for such, or at least explicitly condoning such (as opposed to your claim that the right has failed to explicitly condemn a fringe movement). We can start out with AFL-CIO president Richard Trumpka, but should also throw in such leaders as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and, indeed, President Obama and Minority Leader Pelosi for their support and endorsement of the demonstrably violent and law breaking Occupy movement.

This distinction is critical between actively condoning, and failing to condemn is critical here. We have seen recently all the rumors of Harry Reid being a pederast (or pedophile). His office has failed to deny those rumors. Does this make them true? Must be, according to leftist logic, where a failure to condemn equals condoning something.

Revenant said...

Cute attempt at a "see, Obama was right about the threat of white racists".

I doubt it'll work, though.

n.n said...

So, they finally found a lunatic who did not vote Democrat. Has his voting record been confirmed? This is more likely to be a simple crime with an elevated status due to the number of people involved.

If he is a supremacist, then he may be right-wing, but more likely subscribes to a collectivist or left-wing ideology (i.e. denigrates individual dignity).

In any case, the consequences of his actions are his own. They only reflect on his ideological disposition if that ideology defines his actions. He is certainly not American conservative. The American right are revolutionaries, not petty criminals or anarchists.

Maguro said...

What was it someone said a few days ago about using tragedies to score political points?

The Crack Emcee said...

chickelit,

Public Enemy's Chuck D in Fight The Power (1989):

Elvis was a hero to most but he never meant shit to me you see, straight up racist that sucker was, simple and plain, mother fuck him and John Wayne.


This is a stupid quote to bring up. It's not racist. It's misinformation (Elvis was no racist) but it's not racist.

People can say Elvis and John Wayne don't matter to them. Or that they found Elvis to be "simple and plain" - which he could be - so what's your point?

I know:

You don't like Rap because, like your display of this quote, you're ignorant to what it represents.

Sorry, but that says more about YOUR racial intentions than Rap's or Public Enemy's.

And BTW - I'm not defending PE here but just clarifying things:

The only pictures I have hanging on my walls are portraits of John Wayne,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Bryan C,

"Public Enemy's Chuck D in Fight The Power"

Yep.


O.K., now we have an idiot subculture.

One more and I'm calling the SPLC,...

Freeman Hunt said...

How is white supremacy rightwing? America is not Europe. Our right doesn't correspond to theirs.

We are, in fact, more liberal, in the true sense of the word, than they are. Racist nationalism does not have a seat at the American political table.

creeley23 said...

AlphaLiberal et al. seem to have forgotten the assassination porn during the Bush administration.

Here's a classic from that period:

"Right now, I would love to kill George Bush."


Who said that? Betty Williams, a Nobel Peace Prize winner addressing schoolchildren in 2006.

I don't remember any liberal denouncing that, nor any of the rest of the left-liberal salivation over the thought of a George W. Bush assassination

What bothers me is that this left-liberal hate occurred not in wacko fringe groups but at mainstream levels as with Betty Williams or Nicholson Baker's novel, "Checkpoint," or the "Death of a President" film from the UK.

There are no movies or books or Nobel Prize winners going on about the assassination of Obama and thank God for that. The left would go ballistic -- and rightly so if you ask me. But if it happens to a Republican president, that's different.

Perhaps AlphaLiberal can shed some light on this.

MPH said...

Here is the label that Wade Michael's band was on -- scary stuff.

http://www.label56.com/category/store/cd/a-e/

BarryD said...

"Barry D, that is a response devoid of substance, a simple insult."

Your posts aren't really worth a deeper response, and you're not looking to change your mind, such as it is, about anything.

You've made that abundantly clear. And, in fact, you do sound remarkably stupid, and insane.

Sorun said...

Here's a racist hate group with allies in the Justice Department.

How f'ed up is that? Thanks Obama.

YoungHegelian said...

@Alpha,

There is no need for Republicans to disassociate themselves from fringe racial extremists because neither of the two groups have any ideological relation to each other.

The notion that there is an ideologically continuous "right wing" that consists of free market Republicans, aristocratic Tories, and various racial fascists/Nazis is a political myth invented by 1930's Marxists and has absolutely no basis in historical reality. Many of the recent scholars of Fascism who have destroyed this myth are themselves men of the Left (e.g. Ze'ev Sternhell). If you wish to understand the history of the 20th century, you must disabuse yourself of this fable.

If you listen to what the extreme racist fringe has to say for itself (and that's always the best place to start for any social movement), you will find that they have absolutely no use for the Republican Party, which they consider to be a bunch of corporate sell-out, Zionist controlled, race traitors.

Matter of fact, in this article (posted in this forum by me at least once before) two out of three racists supported Obama because Obama at least was proud of his race.

David said...

Some ugly stuff, to be sure.

NYT might want to parse the lyrics of hip-hip some day as well.

YoungHegelian said...

Ooops!

Esquire changed their links!

This one works!

ricpic said...

I'm more concerned with the mentality that imposes "homeland" security on us - what American is comfortable with his country being defined by a teutonic term? - than I am with fringe haters, be they white, black or brown supremacists. But even if you're happy with the Department of Homeland Security it won't go after Eric Holder, so what good is it?

SDN said...

Well, Alpha, wasn't Republicans who repeatedly elected a Grand Wizard of the KKK.

SDN said...

Marshal, none of us really care what Alpha / garage think. We understand who's trying to impose slavery on the collective. Has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with freedom.

Illuninati said...

I think we need to take AlphaLiberal seriously. Perhaps he is onto something. According to his world view, "white supremacism" is probably inevitable.

If I were a “liberal” who is busy tearing down the free enterprise system, and replacing it with a socialist system, I would be very worried about white males.

The purpose for free enterprise is to provide for the distribution of food, medical care, and housing, according to the contribution each person provides to society, without reference to his/her race, gender, or ethnic group. “Liberals” (aka marxists and socialists) hate the free enterprise system since it does not provide them the power over other people they crave. Instead, they have substituted a system in which government (controlled by power hungry “liberals”) divides people into political interest groups who must compete for the essentials of life based on their skin color or ethnic group. The “liberals” function is to gather the essentials together under their control, take a nice piece for themselves, and then distribute the rest as they feel is “fair.”

The Latinos, blacks, and women already have their own special interest groups to lobby for them and to give them special advantages in the new system. This leaves white males out. Since the other groups view white males as competitors, they demonize and fear white males. White males have two options, either accept their status as second class citizens who will never receive equal treatment under the law, or they will organize. Until they are convinced that they are fairly represented, there will be an increasing number of angry white males who will occasionally lash out in violence. The more lopsided the system becomes, the more pressure there will be on the white male. The marvel is that there are so few white males who take the violent route.

The reason “liberals” like AlphaLiberal constant accuse conservatives of hate, is because they know that their policies are designed to damage other people, by force. In their zero sum world, when blacks, browns, and women advance, they do it at the expense of the other (which is mostly white males). Because liberals are hostile to the interests of everyone who is not part of their favored groups, they expect the same hostility to be reflected back towards them in return. Thus, when liberals label conservatives “racists” or “haters”, they are simply projecting their own hatred and their own racism onto their intended victims.

Birches said...

Oh give me a break. The Wisconsin teacher union was giving out Drop Kick Murphy CDs during their little tantrum. At least in their earlier albums, they spoke quite glowingly about skinheads. But since these guys are Union supporting thugs, we'll let it pass.

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