July 16, 2012

A new Obama ad and a new Romney ad.

I'm getting these via Paul Constant at Slog, who says this about the Obama ad:
Holy fucking shit. This is the most brutal attack ad I've seen in a long, long time. It minces the hell out of Romney's offshore fortunes and his record as a jobs exporter (in the private and public sectors). And it makes fun of Romney's singing voice, turning his version of "America, the Beautiful" into a symbol of his warped view of patriotism... This is just an incredible, devastating attack ad. I don't know if it's going to turn any hearts and minds to Obama, but it's going to sure as hell send the Romney campaign reeling. And the Obama campaign likes it when the Romney campaign is reeling.
And he says this about the Romney ad:
It's weak sauce. First of all, you can't argue against negative campaigning in a negative ad. Second, both Romney and Obama have both used negative ads before, so this is nothing new. What this ad is complaining about is that Obama's negative ads are working.
Here's the "brutal" Obama ad:



And here's the "weak sauce" Romney ad:



A few thoughts:

1. The Obama ad is nicely done artistically. It's different.

2. People generally experience Obama as more human than Romney. The new Obama ad undercuts efforts to portray Romney as plastic and robotic. Remember when Hillary Clinton got caught singing the National Anthem badly?



The impulse to use this clip to mock Hillary backfired. People tend to find sincere but bad singing endearing — and this can be especially good for a candidate who has been coming across as too controled. It's "a completely humanizing moment."

3. The Romney ad is much less striking. Unlike the Obama ad, it doesn't grab attention as a beautifully crafted short film. It looks do-it-yourself and webby. There's humility to it. Just wondering what happened to the hope, you know. It oddly resonates with the Obama ad that tries to humiliate Romney for singing badly. America is oriented — generally — toward liking Obama, the man. That's a mysterious process. Hard to see exactly why it happened and how it could be reversed. Obama is relying on it... and relying on the seeming impossibility that anyone could love Romney. The Romney ad very gently tries to undermine the love. He gave us hope. Where is the hope?

227 comments:

1 – 200 of 227   Newer›   Newest»
campy said...

Where is the hope?

It's all around us. Anyone who's not a RACIST!!!! can feel it.

shiloh said...

Indeed, presidential politics ain't beanbag as someone might want to inform mittens ... or not. :-P

mittens replies ~ now cut that out lol er apologize! :D

chickelit said...

Remember when Hillary Clinton got caught singing the National Anthem badly?

Remember when Obama held his hands over his junk during the national anthem instead of showing some respect? link

Paul said...

Obama more human? Are you kidding? I don't know what that freak is but human is the last thing that comes to mind.

Of course you were one who thought he had a cool and reasonable demeanor.

More evidence that the 19th amendment was a terrible mistake.

AllenS said...

Ann Althouse said...
America is oriented — generally — toward liking Obama, the man

Only someone who thinks that Obama voted for that "Born Alive" act, would think that way.

AprilApple said...

Obama is good at brutal. Too bad for us that he sucks at his real job.

damikesc said...

So Obama further shoots his load. Mitt hasn't even BEGUN to slam Obama...so Obama is sacrificing his only plus...his alleged likeability....to remain tied in the polls. Good plan.

Matthew Sablan said...

Obama's ads are not working. The needle has not moved at all in Obama's direction (of a noticeable amount). At least, that's the impression I've gotten from polls. The Romney campaign has not been reeling, in the process of having reeled or preparing to reel at all.

Remember: They cut campaign ads when there was snow on the ground to counter punch ads that the Obama campaign released. They have turn around times of -one day-, if that, to respond to attack ads with other ads. Anyone who thinks the Romney campaign is slipshod, off-kilter or somehow unprepared is deluding themselves.

YoungHegelian said...

I'm on the mailing lists for both the Obama & Romney campaigns.

The Romney campaign wants me to call people & to sell me tchotchkes.

The Obama campaign is in full barbarians-at-the-gate screaming mode. "Send us money NOW or the hope and change is done for!".

The Romney campaign is still way too smug and incestuous, but the Obama people have lost their minds.

Henry said...

The Obama campaign really has nothing.

That's what this tells me. They've got nothing to run on.

MadisonMan said...

The anti-Romney ad is more memorable because it's different. I've seen a million of the ads of the anti-Obama type.

Romney should be pounding away at the Economy message. And he should note that Obama has no message other than anti-Romney.

shiloh said...

Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?

Remember when McCain easily defeated mittens in the 2008 primary?

Remember how mittens won the 2012 Rep primary by default running against several train wrecks!

campy said...

Obama is good at brutal. Too bad for us that he sucks at his real job.

You miss the point. Crushing his opposition forever IS his real job. His mission, even.

Bob Ellison said...

Obama is just clearing the territory for his own singing. He is, in fact, an excellent singer. I wish he were not.

Chip S. said...

I'll grant that what we see in these videos depends on what we already think. But having said that, I'm amazed that anybody would think that the Obama ad is anything but pathetic.

"Romney's not the solution. He's the problem."

Are you serious, Barack? You're trying to blame the economic disaster you've presided over--from Cash for Clunkers to Solyndra, with Obamacare along the way--on what Romney did at Bain from 1977 to 1999, when the '90s were a boom decade? Or as the governor of a single state?

Most pathetic thing of all is the comments section over there, featuring the standard smug ignorance of the garden-variety Obamabot:

Yes, the ad does assume a basic level of literacy on the part of viewers...

To refer back to a comment in an earlier thread...you bet your ass people can be both "educated" and ignorant when what they're being taught is bullshit.

FloridaSteve said...

"Devastating"? Really? If they say so. I could write a response ad to this inc have it proofed in a half a day. The Romney folks better get it in gear.

AprilApple said...

I do agree that Romney needs to shut up with the tired "You better apologize to me". Has that ever worked?

Come on team Romney. Obama just handed you a gift.
"If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
-Barack Obama

Obama just stepped in it big time. Wakey wakey. eggs and bakey.

Jay said...

It minces the hell out of Romney's offshore fortunes and his record as a jobs exporter

Well, when you're not that bright and easily misled, then sure, you take these things as "facts."

At that point it becomes the most awesomest, super-duper ad ever!!!111@@@#!~!

It does!

Note: I love watching the President who has 36 staffers owing a combined $800,000 + in back taxes calling on Romney to relase his tax returns.

Note 2: I love the President who closed over 700 GM dealerships (and sold Chrysler to an Italian multinational corporation) and cancelled Delphi pensions brag about it, but pretend Bain Capital outsources.

Note 3: 30% of the last 3 years' income for the Obama's was generated from foreign sources.

The whole thing is a silly joke.

Henry said...

Does it make sense to compare these two ads or are is the comparison just because of a coincidence in timing?

Paul said...

"Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?"

Yeah we remember.

How's that Hope and Change working out for ya?

It ain't working for America. At all.

This isn't 2008 you fool.

AprilApple said...

campy - that's not missing the point.
"Crushing his opposition forever IS his real job. His mission, even."
and
"obama is good at brutal" is saying roughly same thing.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I do agree that Romney needs to shut up with the tired "You better apologize to me". Has that ever worked?"

-- It worked for Ann Romney. Also, usually in politics, people spin things. Or, once a fact checker calls someone, they back off. I can't think of an election where staffers call the other person a felon and then use the excuse: "We don't know if this is true, but what if it is?" on actual television shows. That's low grade attack ads you expect from your fringe (Walker could be indicted any day now! Obama was born in Kenya!) not from your paid shills on prime time. This used to be beneath the paid shills.

damikesc said...

Matt, this is ALL they have. They know their base is either brutally uneducated or credentialed Morin's.

Jay said...

People generally experience Obama as more human than Romney.

Really?

What has Obama ever done to create this impression?

I experience every day of this affirmative action disaster Presidency as if it were a year.

Ross said...

@YoungHegelian

The Obama campaign is in full barbarians-at-the-gate screaming mode. "Send us money NOW or the hope and change is done for!".

I just couldn't stop laughing over that comment. Hahahahaha.

@shiloh

Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?

Remember when McCain easily defeated mittens in the 2008 primary?

Remember how mittens won the 2012 Rep primary by default running against several train wrecks!


Remember when Carter beat Ford 50/48?

Remember when Ford easily beat Raygun in the 1976 primary?

Remember how Raygun won the 1980 Rep primary by default running against several train wrecks!

Bruce Hayden said...

So, why vote for Obama? Because he is a nice guy? Not looking all that nice recently. Rather, looks somewhat nasty and vicious to me recently.

In the long run, I think that Romney's strategy of staying above much of the fray, and not going personally negative, is going to help him, as Obama and his campaign dig his hole deeper and deeper.

I think that many Americans have some sympathy for the hard-ass that gets things done. Think Donald Trump, and, esp. with his TV show, where someone was always "fired". But much less sympathy when the person if vicious and petty at the same time, which is looking more and more like President Obama. Instead of spending time running the country, he is spending what little time he isn't playing golf or sleeping in, collecting money for his campaign, or sliming his opponent.

garage mahal said...

The whole thing is a silly joke

Awwwww! Hang in there kiddo.

gerry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wyo sis said...

I usually watch TV while I'm doing other things. So I really mostly listen to TV. If I just listen to these two ads I hear Romney singing about America and people who fthink Obama is running a negative campaign. To my ear both ads sound great about Romney. Not so great about Obama.
And, incidentally, Romney sings it very sincerely and doesn't sound bad at all. I remember hearing Hillary sing the National Anthem and it made me like her a little bit in spite of myself.
This seems like a draw or a slight edge for Romney.

DADvocate said...

I'm seeing and anti-Obama ad along the lines of "Obama spent billions to bail out GM, GM shipped jobs to China, Mexico, South Korea and Japan." "Obama held fundraisers in Switzerland, Sweden, Paris and Communist China," "Obama gave millions of taxpayre money to Solyndra, and other green companies, they went bankrupt," and so on.

Neither ad did much for me, but Obama's ad made me think of Obama's poor performance.

Bruce Hayden said...

Jay - except, as I understand it, TARP money was used to help bail out the Delphi union pensions. And, of course, TARP money was used to bail out the GM and Chrysler union pensions too (no such luck for the non-union pensioners, of course).

Remember when TARP was being sold to us to support the banking system? Well, much of that was paid back, actually making a little money for the government. But, then, it was used to bail out GM, Chrysler, and Delphi union pensioners, and AIG, the company insuring Goldman Sachs (and, thus, the pensions, etc. of Obama's top financial advisers), and many billions were lost. GM itself (excluding Delphi) is likely to cost us almost $40 billion, and maybe more, as the company's stock price continues to erode, thanks to its continuing union costs, pensions, and work rules, along with being essentially run (badly) by the government.

edutcher said...

First, who the Hell is Paul Constant and why should we care about his opinion?

What's devastating about the Romney ad is it's Bob Schieffer of Black Rock asking, "Whatever happened to Hopenchange?", and you have Brooks and others saying, in effect, "It's gone and all Choom has left is personal attacks".

Axelrod's ad is the same old stuff which, as Matthew notes, aren't working.

shiloh said...

Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?

Remember when McCain easily defeated mittens in the 2008 primary?

Remember how mittens won the 2012 Rep primary by default running against several train wrecks!


Remember when Stimulus was supposed to cut unemployment to 5.7%?

Remember the Food Stamp President?

Remember when gas prices were half what they are now (like when Zero began his rule)?

Remember how Zero got seriously embarrassed in the Southern primaries?

richard mcenroe said...

@shiloh Remember 2010, when the GOP beat the Democrats by 63 seats?

Remember 2012, when Walker beat the Democrats 53-46?

Remember when every state with a GOP governor GAINED jobs this year?

Matthew Sablan said...

Whoa guys. It's no fair using data points that are good for Republicans.

Jay said...

Bruce, here is what happened:

The process that followed resulted in Delphi union retiree pensions being “topped off” with $1 billion of federal money, while more than 21,000 non-union Delphi retirees nationally took cuts ranging from 30 to 70 percent. GM owned Delphi until 1996, and Delphi still supplies auto components to the auto manufacturer.

If you're non-union, "bailouts" are something you pay for. Not receive.

traditionalguy said...

Romney looked more human in the Obama ad than Media usually shows him. And Romney running successful businesses is a plus in the eyes of most Americans.

If Romney can run a business, then he knows what to put into place that businesses needs to succeed. What am I missing here?

Resentment of our industrial base moving to China for 20 years is not enough to make the American voters decide to commit economic suicide as a protest.

The old saying that liberalism is a mental illness is coming through in the Obama Campaign's ads. They are running pro Romney ads and can't even see what they are doing.

Richard Dolan said...

Team O's punch line -- Romney is not the solution, he's the problem -- doesn't make any sense and will come back to haunt them.

The focus of O's attack is that Bain (and Romney) pursued its own interest as a private investor, and chose investments based on an estimation that they might return a profit. Well, of course. But how is investing the "problem" if what is in need of a solution is a slow economy with poor job creation? Team O's "investments" (with other people's money) behaved the same way (e.g., GM's buying parts on a least-cost basis), or they failed (like Solyndra). It's a global economy, after all, and every major player is looking at opportunities globally, not parochially. (That's also the essence of O's point when he is talking about the impact of the EU debt crisis or the serial crises in Japan, etc., on the US economy.)

An ad like O's isn't intended to appeal to anyone's rationality -- it's purely a pitch to the emotions. But even at that level, I think it's a failure. Romney's off-key signing is what holds your attention, while the pictures of shuttered businesses and bleak urban landscapes get lost behind the wordy placards about Bain's shipping jobs overseas. Even more stiking, there are no shots of down-on-their-luck, out-of-work people to get the emotional juices flowing. Team O should ditch Axelrod and go find today's Evans-Agee team if they want to praise (or condemn) famous me in a memorable way.

Instead, this ad is just slick in a way that will be visually striking only to those who are impervious to persuasion by such things -- the committed partisans of both sides (who will love or hate it, respectively), plus a few like Ann who get off on production values. I don't see this ad as being especially effective with low-information voters paying passing attention to such things. A good chunck of those voters won't even know what Bain is.

Romney's ad wants to say that O is really a nasty little Chicago hack, but he hasn't found an effective way to say that. This ad won't do it, but it also has no downside that could come back and bite him.

edutcher said...

PS Never forget that a groveling apology is a big part of the Full Court Alinsky that the Lefties love to play after being "offended".

The Romster is just turning their game back on them.

RobertL said...

Nothing hates success more than failure....

Christopher in MA said...

At least Romney knows the words to "America the Beautiful."

Though, to be fair, Little Black Jesus probably knows "The Internationale" by heart, so there's that.

Jay said...

shiloh said...
Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?


I love watching you stupids pretend it is still 2008.

Hey, remember when Republicans won 20 legislative chambers and a total of 721 seats in the 2010 elections?

Christopher in MA said...

Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

Romney's ad wants to say that O is really a nasty little Chicago hack, but he hasn't found an effective way to say that. This ad won't do it, but it also has no downside that could come back and bite him.

Barrett lost Wisconsin in part because Chicago hacks screwed with the election with personal safety threats to Walker from outside union goons. Things haven't gone that far--yet

Romney is playing it like Walker did so far. Let the Chicago-mob-gone-national show its ugly face. A majority of Americans recognize it and are repulsed by it. Obama on the other hand embraces the thuggery.

Chip S. said...

edutcher said...
who the Hell is Paul Constant and why should we care about his opinion?

Why, he's an lefty hack whose major achievement in life so far appears to be his ability to ingest large quantities of fried foods quickly.

I'm kind of disappointed that his little column isn't called "Constant's Comments". I'd be interested in his thoughts on the Tea Party.

Dr Weevil said...

'shiloh' (9:30) offers a simple syllogism: Obama beat McCain four years ago after McCain beat Romney in the primaries, therefore (presumably) Obama will beat Romney this year: Obama > McCain > Romney ∴ Obama > Romney.

Of course, some of us are old enough to remember that Carter beat Ford in the 1976 election after Ford beat Reagan in the primary, and Carter went on to be crushed by Reagan in the election four years later.

Is "crushed" a fair evaluation of a 51-41 loss? Others have been defeated by larger margins in my lifetime. Goldwater, McGovern, and Mondale all lost by 20 points or close to it. However, they were all challengers. The worst an incumbent has done in my lifetime was Carter's 10-point loss in a 3-way race. (Don't forget John Anderson's 7 percent.) Whether Obama can beat Carter's record remains to be seen.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
machine said...

"They've got nothing to run on."

Except that President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.

and Romney wants to go back to the old ways....that's something to run on.

shiloh said...

It worked for Ann Romney.

So funny it must be posted twice. Almost as funny as someone comparing mittens to Reagan. btw, Dutch is dead much like mittens, so you may have a point lol.

edutcher, I beseech thee, watch that blood pressure ...

>

But please Althouse conservative lemmings, feel free to continue to apologize for mittens.

traditionalguy said...

I just watched the Romney ad. It was stuck on his wooden persona that tends to portray him as a self righteous secret man that just doesn't like Obama.

So what? Nobody likes Obama.

So audition for the job, Mitt. Show us a personal emotion other than your Mormon poker face. Who are you?

The Obama ad showed a candid if awkward Romney interracting with a crowd. That actually helped Romney connect with people wanting a replacement for President Disaster. Thanks Axelrod.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Except that President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.

and Romney wants to go back to the old ways....that's something to run on."

-- Damn those old ways of 5% unemployment! Don't you know we're in the New Normal(TM)!

garage mahal said...

Obama has the amazing ability to turn from a confused, sissified moms jeans metrosexual, into a ruthlessly effective and militant tyrant. In a flash!

machine said...

"What’s clear from a review of the public record during his management of the private-equity firm Bain Capital from 1985 to 1999 is that Romney was fabulously successful in generating high returns for its investors. He did so, in large part, through heavy use of tax-deductible debt, usually to finance outsized dividends for the firm’s partners and investors. When some of the investments went bad, workers and creditors felt most of the pain. Romney privatized the gains and socialized the losses.

What’s less clear is how his skills are relevant to the job of overseeing the U.S. economy, strengthening competitiveness and looking out for the welfare of the general public, especially the middle class."

Sick burn...

Dr Weevil said...

While I was taking my time editing my 10:03 comment and making sure the greater-than and therefore symbols would work, Ross beat me to the punch and said much the same thing at 9:40. Great minds think alike, even if some are a lot slower than others.

Matthew Sablan said...

Also, they are not creating jobs. The 8%+ unemployment is clear that they are net losing jobs. Unless, you don't count lost jobs against them and only give them credit. Which I guess works. But, that seems a real awkward way to measure an economy.

Also, they are the government. Which you can't credit for the private sector hiring people.

Jay said...

machine said...


Except that President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.


Hysterical.

I wonder how one arrives at this conclusion when the US has a smaller workforce than it did 25 years ago.

Oh, you're a gullible moron.

That's how.

edutcher said...

Chip S. said...

Who the Hell is Paul Constant and why should we care about his opinion?

Why, he's an lefty hack whose major achievement in life so far appears to be his ability to ingest large quantities of fried foods quickly.

I'm kind of disappointed that his little column isn't called "Constant's Comments". I'd be interested in his thoughts on the Tea Party.


He looks like somebody who's living in his old room at home.

And thinks it makes him cool.

machine said...

They've got nothing to run on.

Except that President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.


The mindless automaton means all those "saved or created" jobs.

And all those green jobs in companies that have gone Tango Uniform.

And all those jobs that went to Red China.

And all those temp jobs and burger-flipping jobs that will be enough for people to feed their families.

and Romney wants to go back to the old ways....that's something to run on.

For the Romster.

Yeah, he wants full-time, good-paying jobs here in this country.

tim in vermont said...

Can anybody give me a link to a good summary of the Obama campaign's position on the "might be a felon" charge? I mean, what are the documents in question, when were they signed, etc?

Jay said...

What’s less clear is how his skills are relevant to the job of overseeing the U.S. economy,

Yes!!!

Because being a constitutional law lecturer, community organizer, then state senator totally qualifies you to "oversee" the economy!

It does!!

Idiot.

Hagar said...

If Obama has lost Bob Schieffer, he has lost the old style true believers.
If Chicago style is all he has left, that is not going to carry the nation.

Jay said...

President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.


Funny, despite this "fact" the Democratic congress saw Nancy Pelosi relegated to minority leader status.

Matthew Sablan said...

Here's one. Remember when Fact Check was citing things as true, but false, and not giving any marks at all when Obama was flagrantly telling the not truth? They've given in, it looks, and are just calling him on it now. His campaign's fault for not getting the warning.

Chip S. said...

machine outputted...
He did so, in large part, through heavy use of tax-deductible debt

I have complete faith that you're aware that all interest paid by businesses is "tax deductible." I'm also confident that you know the difference b/w "debt" and "interest".

This of course means that I also have complete confidence that you're purposely dealing in half-truths, like a good little Obamabot.

Chase said...

Hey shiloh, politics isn't beanbag - by which you mean your Asshole-in-Chief can constantly lie with your approval - and neither is blogging, so go fuck yourself, you cunt.

Obama is the most lying Presidential candidate we have ever had. We all know you'd give a blow job to the Felon-in-Chief if you could, so really, what value is there in anything you shit out of your kwyboard?

Beanbag your ass.

shiloh said...

Dr. W

Bush 41 got 37.5%.

Which begs the rhetorical question:

Will Bush41/43 and cheney appear at the Rep convention in Tampa?

Memories ...

Also a recent poll indicates folk still blames cheney/bush more than Obama for the bad economy er Bush recession.

And one might want to check the job approval rating of Scott, Snyder, kasich, Corbett etc.

Or not.

take care

X said...

Remember when Obama beat McCain 53/46?

Remember when McCain easily defeated mittens in the 2008 primary?

Remember how mittens won the 2012 Rep primary by default running against several train wrecks!


so Obama is just like Slippery Rock.

Chase said...

Hey, is it racist to agree with the words of Chris Rock when he says "Niggas has got to go!"

Jay said...

President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.


I rather enjoyed this headline from Dec 2010:

Unemployment jumps to 9.8 percent, a sign of slower recovery

Goof.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christopher in MA said...

Because being a constitutional law lecturer, community organizer, then state senator totally qualifies you to oversee the economy. It does!!

Well, let's be fair, now, Jay. The dog-eater's current gambit is to say that he's more qualified than Romney to be president because. . .because he already is president. Aren't you embarrassed now?

Idiot.

Machine's not clever enough to be an idiot. One has to have a baseline of intelligence to fall below. It's just an Obama felcher.

shiloh said...

Let me rephrase. :-P

Will Bush41/43 and cheney be allowed to appear at the Rep convention?

hmm

Jay said...

Also a recent poll indicates folk still blames cheney/bush more than Obama for the bad economy er Bush recession

Yes!

After 3+ years of endless repetition by the media, people believe this so imporant 'fact'!

Obama is so popular you know!

DADvocate said...

What is it with Democrats and international trade nowadays? Bill Clinton promoted international trade, NAFTA, GATT, WTO, etc.

Now we have a Republican running for president who has practiced international trade quite successfully and, all of the sudden, international trade is horrific. It's be nice to have someone in the White House who acutally knows what they're doing.

damikesc said...

Except that President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.

Except that is false. Didn't even create enough jobs to keep up with the growth of the population.

Where is Obama's month of 300,000+ new jobs? He criticized Bush for having a month where that all that was gained back in 04.

and Romney wants to go back to the old ways....that's something to run on.

Yes, sub 5% unemployment is a nightmare we must never revisit. Yes, we must never again create more jobs than "disability recipients" in a month.

Obama has the amazing ability to turn from a confused, sissified moms jeans metrosexual, into a ruthlessly effective and militant tyrant. In a flash!

No, he's a hyper-sensitive pussy whose main way of winning elections is attempting to legally disqualify competition.

I have complete faith that you're aware that all interest paid by businesses is "tax deductible." I'm also confident that you know the difference b/w "debt" and "interest".

This of course means that I also have complete confidence that you're purposely dealing in half-truths, like a good little Obamabot


Chip, give him credit. He could be an economic imbecile...like most Obama voters.

Christopher in MA said...

Also a recent poll indicates folk still blames cheney/bush more than Obama for the bad economy er Bush recession.

Now, see, Jay, that's an idiot. Assertion without link, BDS snark that Cheney was the brains of the administration and the childish lower case use of "bush/cheney" while capitalizing "Obama." Add the tortured syntax and misspellings, and there you have one of Axelrod's finest.

Chase said...

phx,

Then you don't let your kids see the Madagascar movies because Chris Rock is in them - and he was the one who said it.

I mean, you're not a hypocrite now are you, phx?

damikesc said...

Will Bush41/43 and cheney be allowed to appear at the Rep convention?

I have no doubt they will be allowed. I have little doubt they don't want to do it. George Sr is old and in less than great health and George Jr, unlike Obama, doesn't seem to have a hard-on for publicity and fame.

Also a recent poll indicates folk still blames cheney/bush more than Obama for the bad economy er Bush recession.

And one might want to check the job approval rating of Scott, Snyder, kasich, Corbett etc.


Check out their job growth numbers.

shiloh said...

Christopher in MA

Still payin' attention to my every word ... kinda reassuring. :D

take care

tim in vermont said...

Wow, talk about "weak sauce," that Bain attack qualifies.

But that doesn't stop them from making a claim that Romney had bought a fetus disposal company, even though he was gone and Obama is the one who defines an unborn baby as potentially no more than "medical waste" right up to the first breath.

The fact that Romney says he left is just that much more evidence of his guilt, you know.

PatCA said...

The anti-Romney ad is memorable only in that it is so vicious, like a middle school kid vicious. This from Mr. Likability! It illustrates Obama's flaws much more than Romney's.

Jay said...

Well, let's be fair, now, Jay. The dog-eater's current gambit is to say that he's more qualified than Romney to be president because. . .because he already is president. Aren't you embarrassed now?


Embarrassed for the President?

Yes!

By the way, I'm just re-reading:

President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.


And noting that this bot believes a President & Congress actually "create jobs"

While of course beleiving the net -1,000,000 jobs lost on Obama's watch don't count.

Dr Weevil said...

'shiloh' is a dishonest little weasel. I pointed out that Carter's 10-point loss to Reagan was the worst loss by an incumbent in my lifetime. She quotes Bush I's 37.5% share of the vote in 1992, without mentioning that Clinton only got 43% (a lot less than McCain!) because Ross Perot was getting 19%. So Bush I lost by 5.5%, which is a whole lot less than Carter's 10% loss (9.7%, if you want to be picky). I'm sure 'shiloh' knows that, hence the epithets in my first sentence.

If you remove the 3rd-party votes, and count relative shares of the 2-party vote, Carter lost by 10.5% (55.3-44.7), and Bush I by 7% (53.5-46.5). Any way you look at it, Carter is still the biggest (incumbent) loser in my lifetime - at least so far.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
eiaftinfo said...

Here's an idea - find a good singer to sing the national anthem, then over lay that of photos of Obama refusing to place his hand on his heart.

I found the Obama add insulting, seemed to make fun of the anthem, not Romney.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
shiloh said...

Check out their job growth numbers.

Actually FL is still subterranean. But American voters in Ohio, PA and MI say thank you to Obama especially OH/MI where Obama saved the auto industry ...

Whereas mittens just wanted the auto industry to die!

btw, will Gov Scott be allowed to attend the Rep convention? :o

shiloh said...

Dr. W is turnin' into a pretzel "trying" to make Bush41 look good. god love him lol.

tim in vermont said...

"I'm sure 'shiloh' knows that,"

Really? I'm not.

Chip S. said...

@Chase--When Chris Rock says that, he's dissociating the word from its history.

When you say it, what's your intent?

I don't see any hypocrisy on phx's end. If you were misinterpreted, maybe you were unclear.

Matthew Sablan said...

If we're worried about who is allowed to attend the Republican convention, shouldn't we be curious why people are opting out of the Democrat's convention?

tim in vermont said...

I am sure that Ohio and PA are more than grateful to Obama for doing his level best to shut down the fossil fuel extraction industries there.

chickelit said...

Careful there, Chase. We don't know the first thing about phx link We don't know if it even has kids so you really shouldn't go there. Don't fight phantoms.

From my observation, phx's specialty is sniffing out wafts of bigotry and then amplifying them. Of course it can't smell itself.

Seeing Red said...

If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that."

The unspoken next line to this statement is:

"and since you didn't build it, we have the right to tell you exactly how to run it, to tax your profits as much as we want, and to take it away from you when we wish."



MICKEY KAUS: Will Republicans Take Advantage of Obama’s New Welfare Weakness?


The Obama Department of Agriculture has pulled the radio”novelas” that urged Spanish-speakers to wise up and get on the dole. (“In one of these, an individual tries to convince a friend to enroll in food stamps even though that friend declares: ‘I don’t need anyone’s help. My husband earns enough to take care of us,” says GOP Sen. Jeff Sessions, describing the novelas. “The first individual replies back: ‘When are you going to learn?’”)

Why is the USDA’s retreat significant? Because it shows the administration is sensitive, in an election year, to being perceived as dismissive of the work ethic. Like a prize fighter who winces when you hit him in a sore spot, the Obamaites have revealed their weakness. If the Republicans’ have any strategic sense they will now hit that sore spot again by making a big fuss about the Health and Human Service regulations that renege on the work requirements imposed on welfare recipients by the 1996 welfare reform law (and its successors). If Romney, Boehner and McConnell can’t frame these regs as part (along with the food stamp push) of Obama’s cavalier disregard for the value of work–in embarrassing contradiction to the image he portrayed in 2008–they should really retire to Austria with Denise Rich.



One Hell of an attack ad if he decides to go there.

Christopher in MA said...

Christopher in MA still payin' attention to my every word

There's a difference between paying attention and watching in stunned disbelief, just so you know.

tim in vermont said...

" god love him lol" - shiloh

Hey, that explains a lot, shiloh is Joe Biden!

Ann Althouse said...

"Only someone who thinks that Obama voted for that "Born Alive" act, would think that way."

I'm sorry I misstated that. Obviously, he voted against it.

shiloh said...

Althouse, give Chris in MA a hug!

TIA

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

But American voters in Ohio, PA and MI say thank you to Obama especially OH/MI where Obama saved the auto industry ...


Which is why they all elected Republican Govs after Obama "saved" this industry.

Also note: Romney leads in polls in MI, is tied in OH.

You really are dumb beyond belief.

Dr Weevil said...

'shiloh' dishonestly pretends (10:32) that I'm defending Bush I when in fact I refuted (10:03) her stupid stupid argument (9:30) and she doesn't have the grace or honesty to admit it. Typical 'shiloh'.

Henry said...

There's another aspect to the Obama attack ad that I find troubling: That is the profoundly schizophrenic attitude of our political parties -- fully reflecting a schizophrenic citizenry -- about foreign trade, foreign relations, immigration, and the world economy.

I'll try to find time to elaborate, but suffice to say: The no-nothing party is alive and well in this country and Obama is its leader.

shiloh said...

Althouse, please give Dr. W a hug also and tell Jay to stop drinking the Rasmussen kool-aid.

ndspinelli said...

Normal people say, "I made a mistake." Attorneys say, "I misstated." Going back to the great "shit" post last week, "misstated" is a horseshit word.

yashu said...

I do agree that Romney needs to shut up with the tired "You better apologize to me". Has that ever worked?

Romney is a smart man. He knows very well he'd never get an apology from Obama: the call for an apology is rhetorical. It's not a whiny demand vented out of frustration or anger, but rather a rhetorical (and pugilistic) pivot point.

1) Romney is calling Obama's Bain attack out as a slanderous lie. How often did we wish McCain had called out the lies of the 2008 campaign (especially those about Palin) as lies? Instead he said nothing, and those lies took root. Romney's making the point that the Obama campaign is unworthy of a POTUS and shaking some of that supposed Obama "likability."

2) With the MSM spotlight on Bain and the (non)apology story (MSM fodder meant to distract from the economy and Obama's record), Romney seizes the opportunity and MSM spotlight to counter Obama and mount his own offense-- communicating some very sharp points.

Commenter Miss Marple over at Ace's reports that Romney was on FOX this morning, doing the following:

1. In response to the president's refusal to apologize, he pointed out that the entire thing is an attempt to distract from Obama's terrible record on jobs.
2. On Rahm saying he should quit whining, he said when someone falsely accuses you of a crime, you get a bit upset. He is proud of his ethical business record
3. On business in general, he pointed out the forgiveness of government loans to political donors (Solyndra, etc.) stinks to high heaven.
4. On transparency, he pointed out the executive orders regarding Fast and Furious, which he said was unprecedented and something else (maybe suspicious).

So, he used the openings Obama gave him to talk about Obama's terrible jobs record, the fake accusations and his own excellent ethical record, the graft and corruption with companies like Solyndra, and the White House involvement in Fast and Furious.


Sounds good to me!

David said...

damikesc said...
So Obama further shoots his load. Mitt hasn't even BEGUN to slam Obama...so Obama is sacrificing his only plus...his alleged likeability....to remain tied in the polls. Good plan.


You wish.

Obama is trying to define Romney and not let Romney define himself. It's an old ploy and it's working. He's already tricked Romney into asking for an apology. Bad move by Romney. Looks weak and keeps the attention on the attack, not Obama's weaknesses or Romney's strengths.

The election isn't far away. With meaningless conventions, it is already in the home stretch. Obama recognizes this. Mitt is still doing warm ups.

shiloh said...

yashu

Your inane rationalization notwithstanding ~ If it walks/talks/quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

take care

Matthew Sablan said...

... Wait, wait, wait? Calling someone a criminal is seen as an excellent campaign strategy? Demanding someone apologize for calling you a criminal is a sign of weakness?

How much money has Obama spent to barely break even with Romney? Am I really supposed to believe that the guy who is sitting back, being called a criminal, making an argument and asking for an apology, is the one arguing from the position of weakness? Not the guy asking me to imagine what it would be like if his opponent were a criminal?

Seriously?

bagoh20 said...

"People generally experience Obama as more human than Romney."

For someone to still believe this, is surprising, but it also explains how they could evaluate McCain and Obama side by side and create a caricature of one as an out of control old man on the verge of senility, and the other as a smart, capable reformer who would improve the political climate. There was no real evidence of either one, just a feeling from this statement or a stumble or a look.

Cruel neutrality is often trumped by the fallacy of intuition, which is often just the blindness of bias.

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
Obama has the amazing ability to turn from a confused, sissified moms jeans metrosexual, into a ruthlessly effective and militant tyrant. In a flash!



Depends on you're deffinition of ruthlessly effective. Doesn't it?
To me he's always come across as heavy handed and inept. But liberal fascists love that sort of thing and it plays in Chicago.

EMD said...

OH/MI where Obama saved the auto industry ...

He certainly "saved" a portion of the industry.

Ask creditors at GM and Chrysler how saved they were.

BarryD said...

I don't understand why anyone likes Obama. I never liked him personally; he reminds me of some people I've worked with, and they're people I learned to distrust and avoid.

What is likeable about the guy? Seriously.

Chip S. said...

What is likeable about the guy? Seriously.

Nothing at all.

"He's likeable" is the new "some of my best friends are black."

Chip S. said...

Which reminds me, whatever happened to Adam Schabow, who is beloved so by his black underlngs?

Jay said...

Speaking of ads:

The Associated Press reports: “President Barack Obama’s campaign has spent nearly $100 million on television commercials in selected battleground states so far

And his job approval is still negative, by a wide margin.

bagoh20 said...

"So Obama further shoots his load. Mitt hasn't even BEGUN to slam Obama"

This is spot on. What else does Obama have other than the charge that Romney is an evil businessman? This is far to early to bring this out, as it will be worn thin by election time, and then the economy will be all that's left to talk about.

I suspect that Obama has no choice since it's all he's got and he's hoping that: 1) the economy might improve in the next few months, and 2) he can rehash this again at the end and get something from it. Both are long shots. He's just desperate.

Roger J. said...

IMO I dont think blog commenters reflect American public opinion. It is only July the the campaigns are already in the mud. Wake me up in September and we might see where we are.

Pogo said...

"Retail sales in the U.S. unexpectedly fell for a third month in June"; a decrease of 0.5%.

"Stocks fell as the retail sales report prompted economists at Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Credit Suisse to lower their forecasts for economic growth in the second quarter. A cooling job market is sapping the household spending that makes up 70 percent of the economy, curbing sales at retailers such as Target Corp. (TGT) and Macy’s Inc."

Bain!
BAIN!
BAAAAAIINNNNNN!!1!

Yes, it's totally working.

ndspinelli said...

What RogerJ said.

bagoh20 said...

Something the Romney campaign needs to bring to life is how ridiculous it would be to have called on Obama to fix the Olympics instead of Romney. It made sense to call Romney then, it would make sense now, but Obama?

Obama's attempt to bring them to Chicago failed miserably even though he was the most powerful person in the world and very popular.

When a person thinks in those terms about these two men, who to vote for becomes very clear.

machine said...

"If there was a good deal of time back and forth in the first few months and some business conducted all the way through to December ("pretty much exclusively"), and if Romney's own lawyer tells an inquiry that Romney's work for Bain "continued unabated just as they had," then it is incontrovertibly true that Romney's statement under oath that he was not involved "in any way" in Bain business after February 1999 was a lie under oath.

I thought Republicans cared about perjury when it comes to high office. I mean, they impeached a sitting president for it. But their current candidate is an obvious perjurer and thereby a felon."

Sick burn...

Kansas City said...

Great point about the olypics by bagoh20

It makes you laugh to think that anyone would tap Obama for the olympics job.

But as to the ads, the effect on people with preferences is very much shaped by their preference. I dislike Obama, so the Romney add sounds great to me. For the same reason (and because I have respect for the truth), I hate the Obama ad.

But I have no idea about the effectiveness of the ads on swing voters. I assume they both work, or else they would not be running. And I think the subject of each has a chance of sticking to the other side. If Obama is viewed as too negative, it will hurt him. And, if Obama can make Romney's business into a negative, it obviously will hurt him. My guess is that Obama eventually pays a price for being too negative as a sitting president.

machine said...

"[A]t every point, Romney has surrendered to the fringe of his party. Weak. And now in his first tough encounter with Barack Obama, Romney is being shoved around again. This is not what a president looks like - anyway, not a successful president."

sicker burn...

Chip S. said...

Quotes w/in quotes, all unsourced.

machine sputters, misfires.

machine said...

"Note that Romney had no problem claiming credit for “job creation” by firms years after he left the company. It’s only the bad stuff he retroactivity stopped being responsible for."

sickest burn...

Pogo said...

Machine is quoting Andrew Sullivan, who puts his uterus-gazing device up to 11 in unraveling the mysterious workings of those horrible things called 'corporations' in the US.

Alex said...

Any day now Althouse will regale us with "how Romney lost me and how I must vote for Obama again". Spare us professor!

Jay said...

machine said...
Romney's statement under oath that he was not involved "in any way" in Bain business after February 1999 was a lie under oath.


Romney made no such statement under oath.

Are you ignorant, lying, or both?

Alex said...

So Obama is campaigning against the Gilded Age? His campaign is 100 years late.

Jay said...

machine said...

sickest burn...


I love how you post this phrase after posting lies.

You realize you're projecting on to yourself, right?

damikesc said...

Machine, care to provide a link to whatever you plagiarized here?

Chip S. said...

His campaign is 100 years late.

Yes, but his policy ideas are only 79 years old, so there's that.

Jay said...

But their current candidate is an obvious perjurer and thereby a felon."


And it is so Obvious!!! that ABC News, Washington Post, Factcheck.org, CNN and the NYT can't seem to see it.

Funny that, huh?

Alex said...

If Obama's class warfare shtick wins him re-election that will be a real turning point in America.

ricpic said...

It's that vicious punk likeability factor that'll get Barry a second term.

Jay said...

But their current candidate is an obvious perjurer and thereby a felon.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA

When Mitt Romney was running for governor of Massachusetts a decade ago, Democrats went before a state commission to demand that he be struck from the ballot. Their argument: After taking over the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, he had ceased to live and work in Massachusetts

Also note:
no evidence has yet emerged that Mr. Romney exercised his powers at Bain after February 1999 or directed the funds’ investments after he left

SICK BURN!

Freeman Hunt said...

Television is so deeply stupid. Look at what it trains us to care about.

Michael said...

Machine: Hop on SEC.Gov and find the felonious filing with the SEC. Give us the link. Thanks so much.

Oh, and one can, by the way, be CEO of an entity and have absolutely zero involvement in the operations of the entity. If there are any.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Oh, and one can, by the way, be CEO of an entity and have absolutely zero involvement in the operations of the entity. If there are any."

-- That sounds like the potential for a surprisingly sweet deal.

damikesc said...

Good God, remember when people took Andy seriously?

Romney's statement under oath that he was not involved "in any way" in Bain business after February 1999 was a lie under oath.

As was pointed out --- it was quite accurate. He left Bain in 2/99. Nobody knew if he would return, so he was officially CEO while not actually doing anything (since his departure was not negotiated at the time). He was still on the boards and legally he had to be named as CEO until his departure was negotiated.

Sullivan is such a clown. His dementia (the cause of which is, of course, up for conjecture) has made him a laughingstock. Sadly, he is one of the brighter lights on the Daily Beast --- but that speaks more of the quality of that shithole than anything else.

At every point, Romney has surrendered to the fringe of his party. Weak. And now in his first tough encounter with Barack Obama, Romney is being shoved around again. This is not what a president looks like - anyway, not a successful president."

But a gay investigative obstetrician --- THAT is money, baby!

It'd be endlessly amusing to have Romney win and deport him. It'd improve the US immensely. He should have been deported due to his record anyway.

Michael said...

Machine: Bush created few jobs because we were effectively at full employment during his two terms. Obama "created" lots of jobs in the sense that some jobs were recovered after a catastrophic loss of jobs the previous year. But keep tossing out the bogus stat.

Michael said...

Matthew Sablan : You can be CEO of an entity that is legally alive but which has no activity. It is not complicated, nor is it some kind of nefarious sweet deal.

Matthew Sablan said...

But it COULD be a sweet deal. Let me have hope for a possible sinecure in my future.

Jake Diamond said...

Bush created few jobs because we were effectively at full employment during his two terms.

Another example of how Republicans use denial to keep themselves in their bubble.

Michael said...

Matthew Sablan: Be careful of what you wish for. Many people in those capacities earn no income but retain liabilities. Make yourself feel better by incorporating and making yourself the CEO of your new company. It will only cost you a few hundred bucks in legal fees to incorporate and then fees to your local county and then, of course, to your accountant who will have to keep track of the county and city fees and so on.

Michael said...

Jake Diamond: How is it then that there are fewer people employed now than at the beginning of Obama's term in office. How can that be when Obama created so many jobs? Put some progressive math on that, dude.

Matthew Sablan said...

Will I also get a nifty nameplate? I need -all the perks-.

Kansas City said...

I think there is probably about a 40% chance that Obama discredits Romney enough to be re-elected.

What Obama and others miss is that it will sow the seeds for a disastrous second term. Aside from Supreme Court appointments, which will be very important, it is hard to see how Obama will have much success in a second term.

Michael said...

Matthew Sablan: Like any business owner you will have to buy your own nameplate. And business cards. And desk. And computer. And you will have to rent office space. And get telephones. And a website.

But, as you are aware, all of that is not going to be you doing it it is going to be the teacher who inspired you and the guy who build the road you drive to your new office on

Matthew Sablan said...

Geesh. Now I see why everyone has secretaries.

Cedarford said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"Oh, and one can, by the way, be CEO of an entity and have absolutely zero involvement in the operations of the entity. If there are any."

-- That sounds like the potential for a surprisingly sweet deal.

================
It can be..
But it often reflects the reality of a banker or investor putting together a limited partnership, or entity...then leaving for a government position, to head a NGO, or on bosses order at the banking/investing firm to move to a new project.

Out of active management, but still with a stake in the outcome as the investment pans out..in terms of compensation, reputation.

And the paperwork reflects who assembled the long-term investment. For just people buying and selling the shares of the partnership or entity knowing by disclosure requirements.

And if a Tim Geithner, a Steve Rattner, a Hillary Rosen, or dude now off with the Soros Foundation or on the Romney Campaign put it together..
(Felons all??)
I am sure Geithner has all sorts of documents saying he no longer had any active management role at Goldman-Sachs once he became Treasury Secretary.
Yet Tims name is ALL OVER Goldman Sachs documents for various investment entities, partnerships, ongoing mergers, loans HE helped create!!

And Tim Geithner, and Rattner, and so on...still got compensation after they left active management!!!

Obama is such a fucking clueless on the economy sort of law lecturer that he doesn't know that half of his economic team in the White House have the same situation and "papers" on their former firms as Romney does.

And that doesn't even include the wealthy lawyers that left firms with ongoing investments and litigation they were part of that could land them money...even while they are not in the Boardroom, but in rooms in the Whitehouse and Fed Offices.

Bart DePalma said...

The prior Romney ad where he makes the case that Obama is lying was far better. This one is talking heads. There is a reason almost no one watches Sunday morning programming.

Joe said...

It's weak sauce.

It's July. You don't do heavy hitting in July. You do it in October.

Michael said...

Cedarford has it right. To understand this all a bit more it is useful to go to the sec.gov site and look at the filings of any company that is required to register and file. Bain has at least sixty filing entities. General Electric many more. Go, progs, look. See.

Penny said...

Obama's ad was vicious?

But I thought all liberals want the downtrodden, the world over, to have better lives? Surely they wouldn't exclude the Chinese, Indians and Mexicans from having a better lives in their own countries?

Michael said...

Penny: Why, no. Progressives want to load money into airplanes for our oppressed brothers living offshore. The nasty Republicans want them to have to work for the money.

Tim said...

Too funny.

No one wins the presidential election on Monday, July 16th.

The fact the incumbent still polls below 50% is the only thing that matters right now.

The Obama attack ad is desperate - like a Japanese Banzai or the German December offensive through the Ardennes Forest (aka "Battle of the Bulge) - a sign they are losing, rather than winning.

However, the real issue, the only issue, is this: is a significant cohort of Obama voters in enough states smart enough to realize their votes were a mistake, and they correct the mistake this time around? All the rest is window dressing.

My own guess is, despite the polling numbers, no.

Stupid like that hard to fix.

Penny said...

Aren't we ALL wondering what happened to the "Hope and Change"?

Romney's ad was simple and effective.
Better yet, it speaks to liberals, conservatives, but more importantly, to all those in between.

Chip S. said...

machine malfunctioned as follows...
President Obama and the Democratic Congress created more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did over eight years.

later, jake diamond said...

Republicans use denial to keep themselves in their bubble

The Bureau of Labor Statistics says...:

total employed persons in civilian labor force

Jan. 2001: 135,999,000

Jan. 2009: 142,099,000

Jan. 2011: 139,323,000

June 2012: 142,415,000

"Troll" is too generous a term for machine and jakey.

But "pathetic liar" seems to fit quite well.

Tim said...

"I think there is probably about a 40% chance that Obama discredits Romney enough to be re-elected."

I wish.

You have to start with all the Obama voters, and then ask, "How many of them are smart enough to have learned from their mistake?"

Based upon the evidence, the average Obama voter can't be presumed to be smart enough to come to that conclusion on his or her own.

The last four years?

Not enough time for dimwitted folks to learn the lesson.

So Romney has to make a case for himself without stating the obvious - that Obama voters fucked up - and that they can't be trusted to think straight with the power of the franchise.

Obama's case to these voters is much easier - he knows exactly how dimwitted they are - and he doesn't have to earn their vote again. All he has to do is paint Romney has some kind of scary guy, and all of Obama's long record of incompetence will not matter.

Stupid people don't care about competence. They find the lack of competence somewhat endearing. It makes their own failures so much more tolerable.

Obama has a decided edge here.

Love said...

Regardless of how hard the Mittster tries to look "human," until he releases his tax returns (Name the last modern day presiential candidate who refused to release his tax returns.) and explains why as CEO, President, and salaried sole owner of Bain...he had absolutely nothing to do with any decisions relating to investment, employment or running of the company.



He's lying through his teeth and everybody knows it, too.

Chip S. said...

He's lying through his teeth and everybody knows it, too.

Nope.

"Love" isn't any better at this than the other two dipshits.

All competent Obots must be needed elsewhere today.

shiloh said...

Indeed Love, as con/Rep politicians and pundits alike are now calling for mittens to release his tax returns er financial records.

Bottom line, what is the Mittster hiding ?!? Rhetorical.

tim in vermont said...

So Obama's strategy is the big lie, then? Seem's that way.

Was Romney really the "sole owner" of Bain Capital, or just one of the owners as a partner?

Tim said...

Alex said...

"If Obama's class warfare shtick wins him re-election that will be a real turning point in America."

Too late.

The turning point was in '08.

Now the effort comes in turning around from the turning point, or, if you will, righting the capsized ship.

Romney has to poach Obama voters in Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, and Virginia and flip those states.

Can he do it?

Sure. He's our best chance - but in the end, he (and us) are relying upon Obama voters being smart enough to figure out they screwed up in '08.

Are they?

I don't think so.

shiloh said...

mittens campaign incompetency is a major plus and add his aloof, out of touch attitude and you have the full service Republican lol.

Chip S. said...

Tim said...
Too late.

I disagree. If you were right, the trolls would be posting something other than outright, easily disproved lies.

Matthew Sablan said...

I never understand why it is vitally important Romney reveal his tax records, yet it is ridiculous for us to know things like how the government decided arming Mexican drug cartels was a good idea. How come one deserves to be in the public record, but the other not?

Also, he's right. Look what they did to Palin. They opened up to the masses to comb through her emails to try and find dirt. They wouldn't even bother to read Obama's book to find things out about him. Why should Romney play their silly reindeer games?

Michael said...

Love: How can you be sole owner of a partnership? Bain is a partnership isn't it? And his partners own nothing? Please explain.

He had nothing to do with the things you list because he was running the Olympics out in Utah. Our current president could not run either the Olympics or Bain Capital much less both. Are you suggesting that Romney was running Bain Capital at the same time as he was running the Olympics in Utah?

Matthew Sablan said...

Romney's ran a smart, tight, disciplined campaign. Especially compared to Obama. Look, here's all you need to know.

Romney isn't trying to fund raise off other people's weddings.

Competency.

shiloh said...

Matthew Sablan

Whining about mittens and mama grizzly in the same post.

Congrats! :D

Love said...

Timmy - "The turning point was in '08."

Can we all assume you're not aware of the worldwide recession that began in December of 2007...13 months BEFORE Obama took office?

Maybe reading a newspaper, periodical or even a book might help with that.

Duh.

Michael said...

Love: Name the modern day president who has not released his medical records. Romney has complied with the law regarding the release of his tax records.

Matthew Sablan said...

Why does that worldwide recession matter? Don't you remember Recovery Summer! Er, the second one. Not the first one. It's the second recovery summer that was for real.

Darcy said...

I just today said to someone essentially what Tim said. There are too many stupid people voting to believe that Obama isn't going to get reelected. I know it's mean to call them stupid, but honestly...it's just true. They watch these stupid ads and then make their choice. And they listen to Oprah and Couric-types. And yes, it's mostly women. How embarrassing.

Unless the same stupid people (mostly women) stay home, it will be close.

Love said...

Michael - Once again; name a modern day president who has release only one full year of tax returns.

Why is not releasing them?

What is he hiding?

How can it possibly help his campaign?

Why would it make Americans trust him?

Why don't YOU care?

Let's take a guess: He's paid much less in taxes than we think, he's made more money that we thought, he's hidden massive amounts of money in offshore accounts, etc., sheltering it from taxes...and of course when it comes to you and others here; the reason you don't care is because you're so intent on hating anything Obama...you fall into the standard teabagger category of uninformed voters.

And that's why the Mittster is going to get his lying ass kicked in November.

Henry said...

Obama is Chael Sonnen.

Romney is Anderson Silva.

Talk is cheap.

Thought I'd throw that out there.

phx said...

Nobody tells Jay Gatsby how many years of tax returns to release. If he wants to release only one or only two, that's his business.

You peons, who never made a million in your life. You couldn't even find the Cayman Islands on a map.

shiloh said...

On a related note the Seychelles are a nice place to visit, even if you're not a politician!

Love said...

Matthew Sablan "Why does that worldwide recession matter?"

Geee, now there's well thought out comment.

If Obama is so instrumental in righting the economic ship, explain why the rest of the world, with few exceptions, is having the same kinds of economic problems (and much worse in some case) as America? Suddenly ALL of the leaders of all of these other countries have forgotten how to run the show?

And please...what would possible make you think any president could straighten this kind of situation (biggest recession since the Great Depression) in 3.5 years...with the party Of "NO" stopping or stalling literally ANYTHING proposed?

You can whine all you want, but until the Mittster exaplins what his grand plan is (other than cutting taxes)...he's toast.

Michael said...

Love: Call your congressman and ask him to make it a law that all contenders for president provide all tax returns they have filed since reaching their majority.

Do you not trust the IRS to go against a filer who has improperly characterized his income? I personally hope he used the laws to his total advantage and paid less than I pay. Why would I care?

Michael said...

Love: How was Romney the sole owner of a partnership? Can you get back to me on that? Please?

Matthew Sablan said...

Love missed my snark. Also, tell Harry Reid and the Party of No to stop blocking House bills in the Senate.

Oh wait, I bet that's not what you meant.

Nathan Alexander said...

Obama's attacks have already tricked Romney into staying even or just barely pulling ahead in the polls. They have also tricked young and minority voters into having low enthusiasm for voting. Obama's policies have also tricked the economy into staying stagnant so they will rebound even more spectacularly a year or two from now.

Brilliant!

tim in vermont said...

Well Neither Germany nor Canada chose to indulge in massive payoffs to their supporte... err, I mean "stimulus" and both of their economies are doing better than the US.

We are sitting on an ocean of oil and natural gas, not to mention coal, and Obama wants to leave it in the ground. Canada sells their oil, and Canada is doing fine.

Bender said...

If Obama is viewed as too negative, it will hurt him.

Much of the time that is true. Except it will not hurt him if Romney responds by acting like a whiny pussy, "Stop being mean to me!"

That just makes Romney look weak, and no one likes weak. No one respects the weak. People dislike weak even more than they dislike bullies. You don't need to read Machiavelli to know that people may not like bullies, but they respect them for their strength. If Obama can play the thug and Romney responds by crying about it, Obama wins that round.

Obama is also not hurt by being too negative if, instead of whining, Romney responds with variations on "I am not a crook." All of those complaints that Romney destroyed jobs at Bain, etc. are lies only perpetuates and reinforces the lie. When Romney complains, all people hear is "Romney destroyed jobs at Bain" and they don't hear the part about "that is a lie."

tim in vermont said...

I will give Love one point, a president can't "fix" the economy, but they sure can refrain from taking a sledgehammer to it, in the form of blocking pipelines and sending oil platforms packing, sending uncounted billions overseas and keeping the price of gas high.

Christopher in MA said...

I don't give a damn how much money Romney made or how much he might have paid in taxes. In fact, if he's managed to keep more of it out of the clutches of this corrupt cuttlefish of a government and its bottom-feeding parasites like shiloh and jeremy/love, I applaud him.

But it's funny beyond belief to think that the corrupt Democrat media complex which brought us Rick Perry's college grades and Sarah Palin's private e-mails within days are now utterly incapable of dredging up Romney's tax releases. As far as I'm concerned, the longer he tells the press and Obama (BIRM) to pound sand, good for him.

But really, Jeremy - your Little Black Jesus has never released his college transcripts. To quote you, why is he not releasing them? What is he hiding? How can it possibly help his campaign? Why would it make Americans trust him? Why don't YOU care?

Let's take a guess: he's not nearly as intelligent as you think he is, and barely skated through Punahou High in a choom-addled haze. He's an AA baby who was enrolled in college only because he was a pleasant mocha color, his abysmal test scores revealing that he couldn't spell 'cocaine' if you spotted him the letters C,O,A,I and E and let him pick a consonant. The reason you don't care is because you're so intent on hating anything Republican, you fall into the standard lefty pattern of Obama fellators.

So take your "duh," shove it up your ass next to your head and go back to wanking off over your basket-making students' facebook pictures, Gene.

Paul Zrimsek said...

And please...what would possible make you think any president could straighten this kind of situation (biggest recession since the Great Depression) in 3.5 years...with the party Of "NO" stopping or stalling literally ANYTHING proposed?

You can whine all you want, but until the Mittster exaplins what his grand plan is (other than cutting taxes)...he's toast.

Which of these two mutually contradictory arguments are you actually trying to put forth?

Bender said...

All of this "stop picking on me" complaining by Romney has taken the focus off of Obama entirely.

yashu said...

... he (and us) are relying upon Obama voters being smart enough to figure out they screwed up in '08.

Nah, that's not necessary. We just have to rely on enough Obama voters being smart enough to figure out Obama has screwed things up since then.

yashu said...

I.e. they don't have to figure out that they screwed up, but that Obama's screwed them.

bagoh20 said...

"Why is not releasing them?"

Look, you guys don't really care about someone's taxes unless it's a Republican. Timothy Geithner was just fine with you people, even as head of the Treasury - the very department he ripped off, and then claimed stupidity as an excuse. That's fine.

If you want to know why he's not releasing them, think about birthers ans how Obama made use of their incessant attacks. You guys are the new birthers.

He will wait until you thoroughly make fools of yourselves, and then he will release them to show the man is competent, honest, successful, and has given many times more money to charity than Obama has even manged to make, and he did by creating jobs and wealth, rather than writing stories about himself.

Keep it up - you're doing your very best hypocritical work, and Romney thanks you.

bagoh20 said...

I wish there was a party of No. That would be an excellent platform.

Jay said...

And please...what would possible make you think any president could straighten this kind of situation (biggest recession since the Great Depression) in 3.5 years...with the party Of "NO" stopping or stalling literally ANYTHING proposed?


Jackass:

Harry Reid has controlled the Senate since January of 2007.

The Dems controlled the House for the first two years of the Obama Presidency.

You can stop this meme any time now.

Further, since the stimulus failed, and Obama said it would lower U/E to under 6% by now, your entire premise that legislation is needed to "fix" anything is false.

So you can stop with that meme any time now too.

Jay said...

Love said...
Michael - Once again; name a modern day president who has release only one full year of tax returns.


Name a modern President who has not released any medical records.

Why isn't Obama releasing them and why aren't you calling on Obama to release them?

Tim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tim said...

"I disagree. If you were right, the trolls would be posting something other than outright, easily disproved lies."

No.

Lies are all they have. Obama's record is atrocious.

But all the rest presumes enough Obama voters, in enough key states, are smart enough to flip from Obama to Romney.

Do you see any evidence of that?

I don't.

Nor do I expect to.

One of the reasons stupid people are stupid is because they keep doing stupid things.

Like voting for Obama. If I could see a trust-worthy poll that showed something between 15-20% of Obama voters were in fact planning to vote for Romney, I would have a different assessment of this race.

But I don't see it, so I can't see it happening.

The key decision was in '08.

The damage has begun to unfold, and it will only get worse.

I'd be gratified to be wrong though.

shiloh said...

like shiloh

Damn, C in MA is becoming totally obsessed w/me. I may have to take another three mo. vacation before he goes totally of the deep end.

ok, ok, it's too late! :-P

Jay said...

Love said...
and explains why as CEO, President, and salaried sole owner of Bain...he had absolutely nothing to do with any decisions relating to investment, employment or running of the company.


This has already been explained by ABC News, WashingtonPost fact checker, FactCheck.org, CNN, the NYT, and the current partners of Bain capital.

You rushing to the Internet to make an utter ass of yourself claimaing otherwise, is an indictment of you, not Mitt Romney.

damikesc said...

Look, you guys don't really care about someone's taxes unless it's a Republican. Timothy Geithner was just fine with you people, even as head of the Treasury - the very department he ripped off, and then claimed stupidity as an excuse. That's fine.

Heck, let's put it all on the table. He was given EXTRA money by his employer to pay that tax. He signed paperwork stating he was paying that tax.

Stupidity doesn't enter the equation here.

That just makes Romney look weak, and no one likes weak. No one respects the weak.

In what way is Romney looking weak here? He isn't the one having to lie about his opponent incessantly.

He is also utterly defanging the inevitable "Man, the Republicans are mean. Romney should call off his attack dogs" meme Obama will try come August/September.

Obama is also not hurt by being too negative if, instead of whining, Romney responds with variations on "I am not a crook." All of those complaints that Romney destroyed jobs at Bain, etc. are lies only perpetuates and reinforces the lie. When Romney complains, all people hear is "Romney destroyed jobs at Bain" and they don't hear the part about "that is a lie."

And you think Romney isn't going to obliterate Obama with nasty ads at the end, when people pay attention?

And Obama can't do the usual Democratic chiding of "negative campaigning" since it, literally, is all he has done to date.

And please...what would possible make you think any president could straighten this kind of situation (biggest recession since the Great Depression) in 3.5 years...with the party Of "NO" stopping or stalling literally ANYTHING proposed?

The Republicans run the Senate, where Reid won't allow votes on much of anything nowadays?

When did this happen?

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