July 20, 2012

"A gunman wearing a gas mask set off an unknown gas and fired into a crowded movie theater... a midnight opening of... 'The Dark Knight Rises'..."

"... killing 14 people and injuring at least 50 others...."
Moviegoers didn't know what was happening and some thought the attack was part of the show. Then they saw a silhouette of a person in the smoke at the front of the theater near the screen, pointing a gun at the crowd....

[An audience member said] it sounded like firecrackers until someone ran into Theater 8 yelling "they're shooting out here!"...

"Like little explosions going on and shortly after that we heard people screaming," [said another, noting that] at first he thought it was part of a louder movie next door. But then he saw "people hunched over leaving theater."
Horrible. I'm not surprised people imagined it was part of the show, since I've seen theme-park shows that begin as a movie and become stage shows with actors in a plot about how something is terribly wrong in the the theater. (I'm remembering the old "Ghostbusters Spooktacular Show" at Universal Studios).

ADDED: When things like this happen, decent people refrain from spinning out theories about why the killer — who presumably has deranged thought patterns — did what he did. Appropriating this event for political purposes is shameful, but it is happening. I'm not even going to link to the places where this is happening. I have some ideas of my own, but I'm choosing not to put them on the internet. For one thing, it's disrespectful to the individuals who died, but also, the likelihood of getting it wrong is high, as we saw after the Oklahoma City bombing and the Tucson massacre.

265 comments:

1 – 200 of 265   Newer›   Newest»
Paddy O said...

The outrage for this act is obvious. The lesser outrage is why a 6 year old was at a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises, among apparently a number of other children.

rhhardin said...

It's a stark reminder of how awful MSM news channels are.

I guess women like it as an entertainment choice.

Elliott A said...

Why do so many mass killings occur in Colorado?

Third Coast said...

Kinda, sorta like what's happening on the streets of Chicago every day.

vet66 said...

The shooter is dressed like the character on the screen. In any case, shades of the Gifford's shooting as another loon acts out his pathetic fantasies. It will be interesting to hear the stories from his acquaintances, families, and what few friends he had.

I fear that people knew he was acting strange and did nothing about it. If this is true, it is a another example of the dark side of political correctness. Cynical? Yes. It still occurs to me, especially after the ruling on the Fort Hood shootout, specifically condemning political correct behavior from those who knew something was wrong and did nothing.

Jay said...

Don't worry, the left has already taken to the Internet & Twitter to call for more gun control.

By noon it will be "confirmed" this guy was the head of the Aurora, CO Tea Party.

Matthew Sablan said...

I hope we get the whole story before the media starts speculating on causes.

tiger said...

Countdown to cure violent movies starts in 5...4...3...

Count down to curb gun ownership starts in 5...4...3...2...

Countdown to curb anything that can be tied to this (movie popcorn, selling costumes, household cleaners,etc, etc, etc) starts as soon as someone in the MSM asks an 'expert' what causes someone to do this.

'They are nuts' is the only answer you need.

virgil xenophon said...

Why the embargo on the release of his name? He's been in custody for almost eight hours now and is known to the police, right? Soooo...usually the name of the perp is released RIGHT AWAY (think a certain Mr. Zimmerman) so why the hush-hush? Inquiring minds..

Lem said...

Is it too soon to make a crack ;)

Paul said...

The gunman had bullet proof vest to. He planed this for a while. I suspect the patrons coughing was tear gas or pepper spray. He had a gas mask also!

But I guess no one there had a CCW license or gun.

I wonder if that theater BANNED them? I bet it was a 'gun free' zone.

The Drill SGT said...

I bet the gas grenade was just a basic smoke grenade. They aren't controlled well (are available to LOE and other first responders,) and leak into private hands.

alternately it could be CS gas, e.g. Tear gas, though more tightly controlled, does leak into private hands.

EMD said...

If you really wanted terror, is this not what you would do?

A drip, drip, drip, drip small event approach that truly tortures the psyche


Now, I'm not saying this isn't one of those old isolated incidents.

But I always wondered why Al Queda would forgo this method and prefer to pursue the big-ticket, logistically-intense terror acts.

You would just need an army of martyrs, some guns, some pipe bombs to create real havoc.


I went to a midnight show here. Good film, although I'm not sure on par with the previous one. It is astounding to see a repudiation of the Occupy mentality so blatantly demonstrated in a Hollywood production of this magnitude.

Elliott A said...

Before long, this type of thing will be done remotely by a hijacked police drone from the comfort of someone's computer

AprilApple said...

This is so horrible. So so bad.
More of our freedoms will be removed.
Will we soon be required to go through TSA to see a movie? Will we want to, to feel safe?

More importantly --thoughts and prayers for the victims. My heart breaks at the thought of what these families are going through.

A audience full of children.
Cowardly.

EMD said...

Apologies for misspelling Al Qaeda.

Leland said...

Thank you Professor for providing a place for people to discuss the sadness of the event and the reminder that now is not the opportunity for political gains.

I also agree with Mr. Sablan.

Lem said...

Bachman'n press release...

There is no evidence that the shooter is related to Huma Abedin.

(I expect this comment to be shot down)

LilyBart said...

When things like this happen, decent people refrain from spinning out theories about why the killer

Thank you for that. Its pointless and tedious to listen (or read) this conjecture. People tend to inject their favorite 'boogie man' into these events until facts are known.

Robert Cook said...

"I fear that people knew he was acting strange and did nothing about it. If this is true, it is a another example of the dark side of political correctness. Cynical? Yes."

Cynical? No.

Assuming this character was "acting strange," what would you expect people to "do" about it? There are many people who act strange but who are not violent and will never become violent.

Also, "acting strange" is, in many cases, in the eye of the beholder. Would we be better off if we reported to the authorities to be investigated everyone who struck us as a bit eccentric or odd?

Most likely, if people considered this man to be strange, they just didn't jump to the conclusion that he was dangerous. It's in our nature to assume that the people around us are not going to be those people we read about in the news to go berserk and wreak havoc, as most of us do not think such irrational violence will intrude into our lives or reality. If anything, this is the opposite of cynical: it reflects out tendency to think better of our fellow human beings than may always be warranted.

Bill said...

"Four days"

That's what I keep telling myself when stuff like this happens. Just wait four days before you start spouting opinions on this or that event. The internet moves so much faster than the truth.

Bruce Hayden said...

Why do so many mass killings occur in Colorado?

The water maybe?

The theater is in an older mall in one of the older sections of Aurora (though, by east coast standards, it is still pretty new). I think that the area may be 40-50 years old, while much of Aurora is much newer. Not too far from the Denver city limits, which means that it is a fairly close-in suburb. Been in the mall once or twice, and used to sell insurance in that area some 35 years ago.

Columbine, on the other hand, was a large fairly new outer suburban high school in a somewhat upscale neighborhood. Much richer, I think, than the portion of Aurora that the theater is in. We all went to K-12 school in the same school district as Columbine, and my kid would have attended the rival HS to the west, if they had not attended private school (except, I think that Combine had an IB program at the time, so they may have gone there instead). The student dynamics don't seem to have changed all that much in the interim, with the same basic groups of students. The one thing that has changed though is that trench coats are now apparently forbidden.

Colorado, and esp. the Denver metro area, seem a lot less gun-centric than much of the west. I just spent four years in N. Nevada, just south of Carson City, and everyone there seems to have a concealed carry permit and an armory. The situation is maybe even worse here in NW Montana, maybe 100 miles from Ruby Ridge and where the skinheads used to hang out in Hayden Lake.

Denver is a decently large metro area, and these were both in suburbs - Columbine to the SW and Aurora to the East. As noted, Columbine was a newer, more affluent, area. But, neither is any different than you see in other metro areas of that size or larger.

Sloanasaurus said...

It's sad. I already saw on the news that they were inquiring whether the shooter was a "member" of the tea party.

AllenS said...

Just heard on the radio that the shooter is 24 years old. Name was something like "Mark Holm". Don't quote me on that.

Jay said...

Notice how the left, in a complete revealing of projection, blames Rush Limbaugh.

People who assume others follow the words of figureheads, follow figureheads themselves.

These are the same people who sang songs about, and wore T-shirts of, Obama.

alan markus said...

Rotten Tomatoes had to suspend comments in reaction to some negative reviews about this movie before it was released:

'The Dark Knight Rises’ Raises Ugly Debate on Rotten Tomatoes

Early this week, reviews of Christopher Nolan’s final Batman film began coming in to Rotten Tomatoes. Everything was fine for the first 30 or so reviews, all of which were positive on the film. But then, a critic named Marshall Fine posted a negative review. The reaction was – well – let’s just say it was not pretty.

The comments ranged from short, simple cursing all the way up to death threats. One poster said he wanted Fine to die in a fire. Another fantasized about beating Fine to death with a thick rubber hose. For Rotten Tomatoes, that was enough. The website shut down the commenting feature on all “Dark Knight Rises” reviews. Rotten Tomatoes Editor-in-chief Matt Atchiity wrote, “There are plenty of other things to get angry about, like war, famine, poverty and crime. But not movie reviews.”

“These ‘crazy people’ have already locked themselves into liking the film,” says Collider.com film reviewer Matt Goldeberg. “They’ve been hit with so much marketing from the studios that they feel like they have invested time, energy, and passion into the film even before they have seen it. For someone to say, ‘it’s not good’ is not an acceptable answer to them.

Once “The Dark Knight Rises” opens in theaters, tonight at midnight, the critic bashing and analysis will certainly quiet down - eh - maybe not!!

Anyway, I'm clueless about current cultural affairs, but it seems like a lot of people have vested their personal identity in this movie - almost cultish.

Paging Crack Emcee!

sydney said...

One thing you can say, he had an awful lot of hate in him.

syd B. said...

No doubt, this sick young man will be given the same rights and considerations as Nidal Malik Hasan, the Fort Hood shooter.

Roger J. said...

Thoughts and prayers to the victitms and their families. Plenty to time to sort out what happened--until then, it seems to me to be appropriate to wait until facts are in.

AllenS said...

Local resident, "James Holmes".

Lem said...

The suspect is identified as James Holmes, 24, white..
Leaders in the Caucasian Community have Called for Calm.

(I believe thats from the Onion... we've seen this.. before)

But if i could be serious for a moment... I'm reading...
Suspect's Mother: 'You have the right person'... Thats like from the movie "We need to talk about Kevin" (2011)

Sabinal said...

I'm with Cook on this one. We heard the same nonsense after the Giffords shooting.

I'm not afraid of leftists blaming conservatives for every grand act of violence that reaches TV -- I'm more scared of a new witch hunt on people that don't act "normal." The loner, the nerd, the man who loves lederhosen will be scrutinized and ostracized as potential "dangers" while those "normals" delude themselves into a false calm.

Robert Cook said...

"No doubt, this sick young man will be given the same rights and considerations as Nidal Malik Hasan, the Fort Hood shooter."

Why should he not? Our Constitution guarantees all of us rights to due process. This is as it should be.

(Unfortunately, the quality or degree of "due process" one really enjoys often has to do with the amount of money one has. "Justice" and "due process" can be very expensive.)

Lem said...

I need to go..

My thoughts and prayers..

prairie wind said...

The one thing that has changed though is that trench coats are now apparently forbidden.

Shades of the TSA!

I hope the media can restrain themselves and do as little as possible to glamorize the shooter...by, for example, going on about a trench coat.

Bruce Hayden said:
Colorado, and esp. the Denver metro area, seem a lot less gun-centric than much of the west. I just spent four years in N. Nevada, just south of Carson City, and everyone there seems to have a concealed carry permit and an armory. The situation is maybe even worse here in NW Montana, maybe 100 miles from Ruby Ridge and where the skinheads used to hang out in Hayden Lake.

The shooting happens in a less gun-centric area and you think it is "even worse" where everyone carries a gun? How many mass shootings have there been in N. Nevada?

Perhaps I misunderstood where you were going with this.

Roger J. said...

Why is it so hard to believe that there is real evil and deranged people in the world?

Sabinal said...

I never could understand why people would make a film about mass shooter. It's not horror. I'm surprised anyone would want to watch it.

Shanna said...

Assuming this character was "acting strange," what would you expect people to "do" about it?

Call security. Leave. Pull the fire alarm depending on the seriousness.

The sad (well one of the sad) part is people did realize something was going on, according to reports they thought it was part of the movie. I'm picturing the scene in Scream 2.

The whole thing is awful.

Sabinal said...

Why is it so hard to believe that there is real evil and deranged people in the world?

because we have been blessed to live where it is so rare unlike...

Nazi Germany
Maoist China
Stalinist Russia
most places in Africa today

Ken said...

Why do so many mass killings occur in Colorado?

Confirmation bias? Columbine and this equals "so many mass killings occur in Colorado"?

This is news because it occurs in Colorado so infrequently. As someone noted above, this happens pretty much daily in Chicago.

Shanna said...

I'm more scared of a new witch hunt on people that don't act "normal."

There is a huge difference between not being 'normal' and being dangerous. This guy had a bunch of weapons, a bullet proof vest, and a gas mask on him. That is the kind of stuff that ought to raise a few eyebrows. It's not the same as dressing funny or having a weird piercing. People damn well should keep their eyes open for people who act off in a dangerous way. They aren't always going to be id'ing the signs perfectly, but better safe than sorry.

Tim said...

I don't like the idea of pointing out that he was acting strange before and people didn't do anything about him. All sorts of people act strangely, and we can't go accusing everyone of odd behavior. There is a big risk of backfire when you get involved in an unknown situation. Just like there is little incentive to get involved with a fight or harassment out in public. Its a bold (brave?) new world.

Ken said...

Unfortunately, the quality or degree of "due process" one really enjoys often has to do with the amount of money one has. "Justice" and "due process" can be very expensive.

Just ask the Duke lacrosse team. Thank go these people were rich, otherwise they would have been crushed under a mountain of political correctness and racism. The people who led that witch hunt are still at large, with many considered "respectable".

AprilApple said...

Slonasar... said
"It's sad. I already saw on the news that they were inquiring whether the shooter was a "member" of the tea party."

Really. Our media is a disgrace.
The gunman was 24 years old. Most tea party (tax payer) people are older because they have been around a while. You know, as long time tax payers. No mention of an OWS connection? OWSers were usually 20 something’s.
I suspect NBC affiliates are pushing the "it was a tax payer /tea party person." Typical.

alan markus said...

While we wait for the "real story", in the meantime this kind of stuff gets put out there:

Here is the exchange between ABC News chief investigator Brian Ross and host George Stephanopoulos about apparent suspect James Holmes:

Stephanolpoulos: I'm going to go to Brian Ross. You've been investigating the background of Jim Holmes here. You found something that might be significant.

Ross: There's a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado, page on the Colorado Tea party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year. Now, we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes. But it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado.

Stephanolpoulos: Okay, we'll keep looking at that. Brian Ross, thanks very much.

How interesting that Ross and ABC News should think to look to the Tea Party website first--and to broadcast politically volatile information without verifying if that "Jim Holmes" is the same as the suspect.


The Usual Suspects: ABC's Ross, Stephanolpoulos Point to Tea Party in Dark Knight Shooting UPDATE: Wrong Jim Holmes?

prairie wind said...

better safe than sorry.

Really? That seems like a pretty damned slippery slope to me.

AllenS said...

Stephanolpoulos: I'm going to go to Brian Ross. You've been investigating the background of Jim Holmes here. You found something that might be significant.

Ross: There's a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado, page on the Colorado Tea party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year. Now, we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes. But it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado.

Stephanolpoulos: Okay, we'll keep looking at that. Brian Ross, thanks very much.

The first thing that they thought of. Maybe someone with that odd name belongs to the Tea Party.

Matthew Sablan said...

Jim Holmes is a pretty common name I'd think; I'm pretty sure I knew one in Delaware for goodness sakes. If the name were something unique or uncommon, I could see running that. But... with a common name?

AllenS said...

Alan is faster than Allen.

Ken said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ken said...

Shanna,

This guy had a bunch of weapons, a bullet proof vest, and a gas mask on him.

Clearly, you have never been to opening night at a midnight showing of a sci-fi flick. Masks, including gas masks, aren't too unusual. This wouldn't have raised any eyebrows. Weapons are easy to hide under baggy clothes as is a bullet proof vest.

Additionally, the idea that having a bunch of weapons is not normal is silly. I have a bunch of weapons and if Maryland wasn't such a commie place I'd take a couple of them with me wherever I went because of douchebags like the guy in Denver, the two in Columbine, the douche at Virginia Tech, etc.

Assholes like this exist everywhere and do these things because they never expected anyone to be armed.

chickelit said...

The Usual Suspects: ABC's Ross, Stephanolpoulos Point to Tea Party in Dark Knight Shooting UPDATE: Wrong Jim Holmes?

[Sigh] Not again...

prairie wind said...

Thanks, Ken. I'd also like to point out that some people do crazy shit for reasons other than politics. Because they are crazy, for example. Some day, someone from the Tea Party may shoot up a movie theater but it won't be because he wants to cut spending at the federal level, it will be because he is crazy and has lost all sense of judgement. Which has nothing to do with the Tea Party.

Matthew Sablan said...

It may be wrong, but I consider anyone wearing a mask in public to be worthy of extra scrutiny. Halloween or conventions or the like I may be more relaxed at, maybe even midnight releases.

But, this is probably a failing on my part, if someone is hiding their face, I tend to worry.

Matthew Sablan said...

I wonder if the Jim Holmes who was wrongly ID'ed as the shooter has a tort claim. According to the AP, wrongly identifying someone as a criminal, even accidentally, requires a retraction or opens you up to being sued. Does the caveat: "Well, but we don't really know" protect them?

Dose of Sanity said...

This is just an awful thing.

I think so many people jump to politics not for callous or calculating reasons (some do, I'm sure) but because acts like this are just so senseless, illogical and outraging. We WANT to do something about it. Part of us wish we were there, or someone there had stopped it.

An easy fallback to make sense of this is impose your own ideological beliefs over this: Media violence, video games, gun control, etc.

I think it's a coping mechnanism.

alan markus said...

@ Allen: Alan is faster than Allen

Not really - it's more a matter of great minds thinking alike.

Actually, I'm quite slow - by the time I do the HTML tags & then do the word verification, half of dozen comments have appeared by the time I submit.

Roger J. said...

Nice smear by steffi and baby brian. Assholes both.

Michael Haz said...

ABC is nothing more than an agglomeration of left-wing hacks pretending to be journalists.

Shanna said...

Clearly, you have never been to opening night at a midnight showing of a sci-fi flick.

I mentioned in my previous comment that they thought it was just part of the movie. Shades of Scream 2.

Additionally, the idea that having a bunch of weapons is not normal is silly.

I live in Arkansas. Most people have guns and lots of CCW’s. Random person with a gun wouldn’t bother me a bit. But if I saw somebody acting strange, with a gun and a gas mask, I would be walking the other way. But as mentioned, they did notice they just misinterpreted it as ‘sci fi geek’ not ‘psycho killer’. Which is understandable, but in this case a grave error.

Roger J. said...

This is probably not the appropriate time for levity, but The Rocky Horror Picture Show has audience participation for almost 30 years--except for the popcorn throwing, no one is harmed.

shilo said...

It's Romney's fault, Althouse lemmings. This is the kind of America he wants. This will happen everyday if Romney is elected.

Obama is the salvation of the nation. Turn your guns into him and have life everlasting.

Roger J. said...

Shilo: probably a sarcasm tag would have been appropriate for you post. Assuming you were, of course, being sarcastic.

Ken said...

Shanna,

Which is understandable, but in this case a grave error.

And terribly sad. I really don't understand why people do things like this, nor do I have any good answers as to how to defend against random crazies without becoming paranoid.

I think the saddest thing about this incident is that no matter what, people like this will always exist and will always do awful shit like this. Tragedies like this will always occur and people will always ask "Why?". The answer is always the same unsatisfying, though terrifying, answer: "just because".

MayBee said...

It was interesting (and a little eerie) to see this news break and not show up online for hours. Apparently even Drudge sleeps.

EMD said...

The story says he burst in through an emergency exit.

Most of those in theaters lead directly to the outside, often to the rear of the complex/building, where people tend not to congregate.

Also, where he was found after the shootings.

He didn't buy a ticket and watch the previews with everyone else before entering the theater. Thus, there was no "acting strange" component. He surprised everyone.

The gas mask was not necessarily a part of a "costume" — it was functional. He used the gas to disorient people so he could calmly go about shooting them. This was methodically processed.

Roger J. said...

This tragedy will keep both the 24 hours new cycle and the internet sites going for the next week.

WV: drkside

how does it know?

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

We should all agree, however, that the shooter was evil. There really should be not debate about that.

gregq said...

Suggestion: No links, but include a "dishonor role, listing the people who decided to use this for political advantage.

Two weeks from now, you can go back and add the links, since at that point the links won't get them any significant traffic.

Smith said...

WV: drkside

how does it know?


The interwebs.

Bob Ellison said...

I picked up two sons at 3:30am last night from a local theater that did a Batman festival of some kind. There were so many young people there, all in a festive mood, quite a few in costumes. I saw no misbehavior; just nerds having a fun time together. The night before at that theater, you probably could've heard a pin drop in the parking lot.

Roger J. said...

Question for probably my friend Nick Spinelli--as an investigator, when you have an incident of this proportion involving so many people, how do investigators piece the story together?

gregq said...

Paul said:

Really stupid things.

Dude, can you not READ? You're in a post talking about how sleazy it is for people to try to take advantage of this tragedy for political purposes, and so you try to take advantage of this tragedy for political purposes?

Are you an idiot, or just a lefty troll?

Don't reason ahead of the data. People who do that should be, and are, mocked.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Of course you know people are going to do it, and I think it's also important not to jump on a big righteous campaign against those people."

-- No. It is important when people try and politicize something, or in other ways act like jerks, to call them on it. Stephanapolous, or however it is spelled, should be shamed. Publicly. He should not have a job after misidentifying someone as a mass murderer. Journalists have standards; they need to be applied.

EMD said...

We should all agree, however, that the shooter was evil. There really should be not debate about that.


Sometimes a psychopath is just a psychopath.

Beta Rube said...

Unsurprisingly, the shooter in this case was called out as a Tea Partyy member faster than Major Hassan of the Ft. Worth shooting was named as a Muslim.

MayBee said...

I want to stick up for the parents of the six year old at the midnight showing.

I think it's a fun idea. School is out. If she got too tired at the movie she could have fallen asleep (I've done that!).

We used to do something like that back when drive-ins were around. The whole family would load up in the station wagon, the kids would watch the first feature, then try to stay awake for the second feature, and then dad would drive us back home.

I just don't get the controversy, and the parents certainly should have to explain themselves- they are suffering enough with the loss of their child.

traditionalguy said...

This 24 year old seems to have acted out the cultural heroes his generation was offered by Hollywood and video games.

As they say, sex sells. But when a young man in this generation wants a powerful indentity, then he is drawn to go into a sorcery induced killer mode. That sells too.

I blame the atheists who try so hard to see Christianity destroyed. But athiests cannot give a young man a hero as one who does good, so he takes the next best offer which came from the dark side at a Dark Knight hero worship of the power of evil at midnight.

Spiritual truth 101: Whatever you worship has power over you.

Shanna said...

The story says he burst in through an emergency exit.

Really? I wonder how hard that was to do.

The part I saw about them 'thinking it was part of the show' was explaining the reaction to the smoke bombs, I think, that preceded the shooting.

I'm sure we'll learn more about this guy soon, but I think the most likely answer is that he is crazy and should be locked up forever, if not executed. It would be wise not to politicize crazy people.

rosebud said...

Great, now we've got a shilo trying to moby shiloh. Get a life, dude.

FloridaSteve said...

I've had more exposure to the mental health "industry" in this country than any reasonable person would ever want (a family member who is severely bi-polar). I'll wager schizophrenia. People lump manic, psychotic and schizophrenic all together conversationally but they are distinctly different things and schizophrenia is the one that should scare the hell out of us as a society. What we do about it is a total joke. If he had it, and they knew it... damm.. very sad.

Marshal said...

"Sabinal said...
I'm not afraid of leftists blaming conservatives for every grand act of violence that reaches TV -- I'm more scared of a new witch hunt on people that don't act "normal.""

Why? America's record in this are is nothing short of remarkable. On 9-11 3,000 people were killed by one act, and the result was one single fatal retaliation. One, in a country of 300 million, despite some American Muslims justifying and cheering the attacks.

The only circumstance where we overstep is when lawyers and bureaucrats are involved. Then we end up with "zero tolerance" policies where children are arrested for carrying nail clippers.

Dose of Sanity said...

@tradguy Nice (what I hope is) sarcasm.

EMD said...

I want to stick up for the parents of the six year old at the midnight showing.

I think it's a fun idea. School is out. If she got too tired at the movie she could have fallen asleep (I've done that!).


The movie is rated PG-13. The violence involved isn't necessarily graphic, but it is excessive and the themes of the movies (the Dark Knight saga especially) can be disturbing --- dealing with psychopathic behaviors that, like the shooting, defy any explanation to children of certain ages.

I won't let my 9 year-old son watch these films yet. I dont think he's mature enough.

gregq said...

EMD,

Look up "fantasy ideology" Lee Harris. Al Qaeda doesn't do this because they're deranged emotional children who think that if they just do something big enough we will magically fall over and surrender.

AllieOop said...

I'm glad both candidates are putting off politics at least for today.

We've done the same thing with our kids when they were small and there were still drive in out door theaters, MayBee. Those parents are somewhere today that we hope to never be.

Christopher in MA said...

Appropriating this event for political purposes is shameful, but is happening.

Yes, it is. Little Black Jesus is already winging his way to Aurora as I type. I'd be willing to bet even money that he'll do a shout-out to Obamacare, crowing that the fortunate people who survived this awful tragedy don't have to worry about their hospital care because of him.

Cynical? Yes. Would I loved to be proven wrong? Absolutely. Will I be? There is absolutely nothing that I put past this creature.

Roger J. said...

Christopher in MA--I do believe it appropriate that the POTUS say something about the tragedy--at least better than he did with Trayvon Martin thing. Whether he will or not, I am betting not.

gregq said...

"The story says he burst in through an emergency exit. "

Does that mean he had someone on the inside to open the exit for him?

If not, how does one "burst in" throughan emergency EXIT?

MayBee said...

I won't let my 9 year-old son watch these films yet. I dont think he's mature enough.

Ok, but different kids handle things differently.
I know kids that can handle the violence of a Batman (they obviously won't get the psychopathic part) but get scared by talking animals.

A lot of little kids are going to see this movie, and there's nothing wrong about a midnight showing.

edutcher said...

I have to agree with those asking what little kids were doing at a midnight showing. Especially of a movie that's much more geared toward adults.

Elliott A said...

Why do so many mass killings occur in Colorado?

You've obviously never met too many people from CO.

ndspinelli said...

What are the chances the movie industry does the right thing? Tylenol was sincere, righteous, and inflicted monetary damages on themselves after the Tylenol killings. Vegas has the odds @ 50-1the movie industry will do likewise. Don't get me wrong, they are not responsible for the act of evil men. Neither was Tylenol, but Tylenol was honorable. Honor left our culture a few decades ago. I'm not sure Hollywood ever had any honor.

Dose of Sanity said...

So, something that keeps bothering me is how calculating and cold this guy is.

I mean - movie theater, darkness, smoke/tear bomb and firing during a gunshot scene.

Since the movie hadn't been released - was he sitting and listening for a gun battle scene to start? Can you imagine such a heartless act?

Roger J. said...

edutcher: At the risk being cynical, I think I would rather meet people in colorado than people in Chicago. While the theater shooting is tragic, it pales in comparison to what happens in Chicago on a daily basis.

alan markus said...

Hate to stray too far away with the speculation thing, but this got my attention. It may be as worthless as the ABC News "Tea Party" connection, but then again:

As speculation mounts about the motive behind the mass shooting, one private investigator has said that Holmes may have been part of Occupy Wall Street's most violent faction Occupy Black Bloc.

Bill Warner told how the Batman movie portrays the OWS crowd in a negative vein (*), leading him to believe that may have been a cause behind gunman's rage.


Explosion at 'booby-trapped' apartment of lone wolf killer James Holmes, 24, as his mother says 'you've got the right man'

(*) - see my comment at 8:42 about the reaction to negative reviews about the movie.

Stephen A. Meigs said...

Of course, it is unfortunate when haste causes people to get wrongly criticized, but I mostly disagree with you. I think it is important for a fairly large number of decent people to try to figure out immediately as much about the killer as possible, and to get that out in the open promptly so it can't be censored. The truth is that when stuff like this happens, the videos, blogs, etc. that the killer may have posted may well get deleted before ordinary people can see them. If these sources suggest a motive that it is not politically correct to believe that people might have, then there is a real danger that the true motive will forever be covered up.

Google search engine has gone downhill so much of late, it is now unusually difficult to search for the truth. For instance, searching for web pages about James Fowler Aurora Colorado posted before two days ago yet seems just to pull up a bunch of stuff about the shooting.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dose of Sanity said...

The truth is that when stuff like this happens, the videos, blogs, etc. that the killer may have posted may well get deleted before ordinary people can see them.

I'm of the mind that any "manifesto" or "belief" type videos should be removed. Don't like mass murdering people be the key to getting your crazy ass message out.

See: The crazy "right wing" nut who attack a youth camp and killed almost 80 people. That was done almost entirely to spread his political message.

virgil xenophon said...

@Christopher in MA/

There is absolutely nothing I put past this creature."

Are you sure you're not my long-lost blood-brother?

Methadras said...

Evil has no motive other than to perpetuate itself. So I'm fully expecting Urkel, democrats, and gun control nuts to fully take advantage of this as a smoke screen (see what i did right there) away from holder and his gun running crew and throw this directly at the tea party and Romney.

The maudlins not even remotely related to this will find a way to insinuate themselves into the narrative to frame this as the work of an individual working within the larger gods, guns, and gays psychopathy that the left has smeared the right with. Visions of columbine and Virginia tech will be resurrected from the archives for a real wound tearing event. Can't wait.

EMD said...

A lot of little kids are going to see this movie, and there's nothing wrong about a midnight showing.

I don't disagree about the midnight showing at all. I just wouldn't take a 6 year old to these films.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I blame the atheists who try so hard to see Christianity destroyed

I blame our hollow culture. We are rudderless and drifting. Core values and principles once held closely are considered quaint and old fashioned. Young people are fed a sickening gruel of self loathing and hate for the values of their ancestors.

When you are given nothing to believe in.....you will latch onto and believe anything.

gregq said...

Matthew Sablan said...

"Of course you know people are going to do it, and I think it's also important not to jump on a big righteous campaign against those people."

-- No. It is important when people try and politicize something, or in other ways act like jerks, to call them on it.

I think you two are talking past each other. By all means, feel free / encouraged to ruthlessly mock any sick deranged individual who tries to use this for political purposes. Like Stephi.

But if you go after that amorphous "other" ("same due process ass Major Nadal", "I expect lefties will be going after the Tea Party in 3 2 1", etc), then you are the "sick deranged individual who using this for political purposes".

It is not clever, you are not "defending your side", there is nothing of value in doing that, unless of course you're a troll trying to make right wingers look bad.

It's really hard to effectively mock lefties for jumping ahead of the data, and running with their political biases, when people "on your side" are doing the exact same damn thing.

Short version: If you don't have a precise specific individual doing something criticism worthy since the shooting, with evidence you would be willing to take to court, just grab a nice hot cup of STFU and don't say anything political about this, OK?

AllenS said...

Question --

Who is will be first to make this a political topic, Romney or Obama. Which one will bring up a solution to this event, or blame someone who caused this to happen?

EMD said...

If not, how does one "burst in" throughan emergency EXIT?

I have no idea ... I was just relating the latest story I had read.

I'm sure there will be a lot of disinformation spread.

Methadras said...

Also, I'll be honest and tell you that I, frankly avoid public mass gatherings like this. The wife and I only go to the movies every so often and usually a week or two after the crowds have gone.

Hmmm, I wonder if the veritable regular Rocky Horror Picture Show midnight viewings will change now.

Christopher in MA said...

Roger, I appreciate your comment, but I don't think the President should say much of anything, and I would say that were it a President Romney. I very much dislike the idea that the POTUS has to comment every time some event hits the news cycle. He isn't the Comforter-In-Chief, he can't do anything and it isn't his responsibility.

A simple expression of regret, perhaps. But no flying out to the scene, no press conferences, no appropriation of a tragedy for face time.

But I'm an anachronism. I want a William McKinley presidency. Hell, at this point I'd take a Harry Truman presidency.

Kchiker said...

I always prefer it when people telegraph their stupidity...such as those in this thread that begin their comment with ‘I blame....’.

Roger J. said...

AllenS: you will have to the focus renders its opinion. I do think I know the answer: "never let a crisis go to waste." We will see.

BTW allens: another great sunrise and we are still around--life is good.

edutcher said...

Roger, I see your point and agree as far as the Windy City is concerned.

However, in my wild and misspent youth, I was in a position where I met many people from outside my home state where their home state was identified. The ones from CO always seemed to be consistently odd.

YMMV.

MayBee said...

I don't disagree about the midnight showing at all. I just wouldn't take a 6 year old to these films.

Ok, but a lot of people would and will and have. I don't see how it even merits a side-eye glance, especially now.
A child dies and people want to criticize the parents who made a very normal decision.

Chip Ahoy said...

I saw a young woman give the most amazing interview I've ever seen. Without a tear she delivered the most harrowing details in rapid fire succession without any gaps. The details began to repeat. Then they solidly repeated and I hit mute and read page after page looking up occasionally and unmuting and still the same young woman was describing the scene she experienced up front. She is beautiful too. Dark eyes and perfectly black hair and attractive pure young face. Articulate as all hell. It went like this:

doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo doodleydoodlydoodleydo

Methadras said...

I wonder how much more poigniant the UN treaty on guns will be made now and calls for it to be ratified against the senseless murder of a dozen or more people will be used as a reason to make it so.

EMD said...

CNN reports the back door was propped open.

Maybe there is someone else involved?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Christopher in MA--I do believe it appropriate that the POTUS say something about the tragedy

Why?

Obama watched the rest of Colorado burn up and people lose their homes and said nothing until he eventually HAD to. He ignored the victims of the latest power outages and damages caused by storms in the East. He glosses over the small towns wiped out by tornado damage. Texas burning up...who cares they are republican anyway. Right?

Obama just does not care....unless he can benefit personally.

Why should he 'suddenly' decide to weigh in on this tragedy?

Roger J. said...

Christopher in MA--I do agree wholeheartedly with you about Harry Truman--IMO a very good president. And I think you are correct in your thinking, and I now rescind my comment about POTUS remarking on the tragedy.

I Callahan said...

Who is will be first to make this a political topic, Romney or Obama. Which one will bring up a solution to this event, or blame someone who caused this to happen?

Neither will. And no one directly related to the campaigns will cite blame either. But who needs to, when the media will disseminate the message that want?

Jason said...

Mike Bloomberg just tweeted that he blames those 24- and 32-ounce sodas they sell at the snack bar.

Ralph L said...

My Colorado cousin's unstable ex-husband is now out of prison (for shooting her boyfriend), so I was worried this morning until the killer was named. Their 20 y.o. son is messed up enough as it is.

I hate it when people call this a tragedy--it's a crime.

MayBee said...

For some reason, both campaigns have decided to pull political ads in Colorado.

This is a terrible crime, but what does the presidential campaign have to do with it? Is this a John McCain suspending his campaign moment?

Jason said...

No doubt the FBI will turn over every rock to get to the bottom of this.

Unless it involves the death of a border control agent. Then...not so much.

EMD said...

Why should he 'suddenly' decide to weigh in on this tragedy?

I will offer my best explanation: Senseless violent act vs. acts of nature.

We expect some things (floods, tornadoes, fires) but are always shocked by acts of this caliber.

Nature doesn't plan murder.

Kchiker said...

"For some reason, both campaigns have decided to pull political ads in Colorado.

This is a terrible crime, but what does the presidential campaign have to do with it? Is this a John McCain suspending his campaign moment?”

I would rarely criticize a multilateral display of restraint amongst political campaigns. So they pull commercials for a week or two (or ten)... it seems like a humane act to me. I wouldn’t worry though...those in CO will have plenty of time to get sick of political commercials just like the rest of us.

Ken said...

Michael,

We should all agree, however, that the shooter was evil. There really should be not debate about that.

Agreed.

EMD,

Sometimes a psychopath is just a psychopath.

Is this a serious comment? Psycopaths can be the most evil people on the planet. Having a mental condition, including psychopathy, does NOT absolve you of responsibility of your own actions.

AprilApple said...

"I hate it when people call this a tragedy--it's a crime."

I agree. It's not a tragedy, it's a massacre.

EMD said...

CNN reports the back door was propped open.

Maybe there is someone else involved?


Apparently, Holmes propped the door open (somehow) himself, then put on his gear.

EMD said...

Is this a serious comment? Psycopaths can be the most evil people on the planet. Having a mental condition, including psychopathy, does NOT absolve you of responsibility of your own actions.

Exactly.

I was referring to prematurely or haphazardly ascribing political motivations to the person.

Ken said...

I hate it when people call this a tragedy--it's a crime.

Can't it be both? It's a crime what this man did. It's also a tragedy for the victims and their family and friends.

It's not a tragedy, it's a massacre.

Massacres are not tragic? WTF?

Ken said...

I was referring to prematurely or haphazardly ascribing political motivations to the person.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying this person may not be evil, that he may just be a psychopath.

Crimso said...

Word now is he dropped out of medical school last month. I wouldn't read anything into that, just another brick in the wall. When the wall is assembled we'll see the mural that reveals Holmes. His mother (knowing almost nothing about the circumstances) is sure he did it, so I think we can at least begin to speculate that he had known psychological problems.

edutcher said...

MayBee said...

For some reason, both campaigns have decided to pull political ads in Colorado.

This is a terrible crime, but what does the presidential campaign have to do with it? Is this a John McCain suspending his campaign moment?


I think this is just about optics.

Until the shooter's motivation is discovered, nobody wants the finger pointed at them for exploiting or provoking it.

give it a week or so.

Rick67 said...

"Sometimes a psychopath is just a psychopath."

I don't necessarily disagree. One issue I have been working on (within biblical studies/theology) is the relationship between chaos and evil.

In the Hebrew Bible aka Old Testament there are occasional echoes of the idea that God (Yhwh) battles and restrains the forces of chaos (the deep, the seas, Leviathan, Behemoth, and so on). And in so doing creates (a just) order. But is chaos *evil*? Theologians sometimes speak of "natural evil" in this sense.

Because clearly there is the concept of moral evil - people who choose to do evil.

I wonder, are they the same? Is chaos a form of evil or evil a form of chaos?

Perhaps one can say it this way, Does it matter whether the person who did this was "evil" or "disordered"?

AprilApple said...

Of course it's tragic, but to call it a tragedy, like a plane crash or an accident undercuts the fact that some evil creep killed a large number of unsuspecting innocent children and teenagers in cold blood.

If you want to call it both, knock yourself out.
I'll stick with crime and massacre.

Jay said...

The left has gone form blaming Rush Limbaugh to blaming the NRA.

Classy.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MayBee said...

You can duct tape the latch of an open door so it won't catch once it closes.

He obviously planned this out quite well.

Kchiker said...

I agree with Ann that to speculate about motivation would be irresponsible.

Even if he was a tea partier or an Occupy type...crazy is crazy and his political affiliation doesn’t make a statement about the merits of that affiliation.

Personally, I would prefer it if we didn’t use guns to make political statements of any type. What ends up happening is that after seeing guns used as political statements...we come to ascribe political motivations to acts that are merely deranged.

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

@AllieOop
" Those parents are somewhere today that we hope to never be."

How true it is. When my son, who now has a family and children of his own and says, 'Money just flies out of my wallet,' was about a year old, we were on the front porch and he crawled to the door wanting to go in. I let him in thinking 'he wants to go see momma.' A bit later someone came to the back door. He had crawled out the back and was in the alley. He could have been run over. It would have been my fault. Luck does have something to do with it.

AprilApple said...

I hope this inspires more responsible people get carry permits and take shooting lessons. The police cannot be everywhere at all times.

The left can suck it.
Of course they are going to blame:
Rush
Bush
Romney
John Ashkroft
Rove
Tea Party Tax payers
Tax payers
NRA
...you can set your watch to it.

If only we could un-invent the gun and live in a perfect world without crazy people who break things.

sydney said...

Because clearly there is the concept of moral evil - people who choose to do evil.

I wonder, are they the same? Is chaos a form of evil or evil a form of chaos?

Perhaps one can say it this way, Does it matter whether the person who did this was "evil" or "disordered"?


I would argue they are not the same. "Evil" is when someone makes a choice to do a bad act. Sometimes, I think we give mass murderers too much leeway in this respect. Because what they have chosen to do is so far outside the bounds of normal we call them "insane." Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind.

But true insanity is mental chaos. The thought processes are so jumbled up they don't live in reality any longer. That's not evil. It's beyond their control. Schizophrenics, or people with dementia are like this.

MayBee said...


I think this is just about optics.

Until the shooter's motivation is discovered, nobody wants the finger pointed at them for exploiting or provoking it.


Good point.
The flip side is, by pulling negative ads, it makes it look as if negative ads are somehow connected to this.

But I think you are right. Nobody wants to look bad if their is a political motive.

Curious George said...

After ABC Brian Ross identified a Co tea party member with the same name, and speculated that it might be the same person, Iowahawk has identified crimes across the country commiuted by "Brian Ross" and said it was ABC's Brian Ross. Gotta love Iowahawk!

http://twitter.com/iowahawkblog

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

Oh how cute:

The Aurora Shooting: Sometimes There’s Nothing Wrong With Politicizing a Tragedy

Ralph L said...

It's also a tragedy for the victims and their family and friends.
True, but we are not them. The word is inadequate for them and doesn't apply to the rest of us.

Titus said...

A three month old baby was injured.

traditionalguy said...

The Three Penny Opera was a play written and produced by Bertolt Brecht in Germany in the 1920s, and for its time was quite similar to the themes of the Dark Knight movies. It is a desperate display of survival in a world where a chaos of murdering has gone out of control with the authorities complicity.

Mack the Knife would be the Joker. There is no hero in the play that saves anyone, although a final scene pretends a happy ending with jubilant music.

In the play the most powerful evil has grabbed authority and the social institutions are seen as evil and complicit in chaos. In other words it was an Occupy Wall Street belief system that Obama and his minions have been promoting for two years.

It would not surprise me if this attack was done intentionally to send the same signals Bertoldt Brecht was sending back in the Weimar Republic years sliding into the Third Reich that seemed to be an improvement to Germans at first.

Ralph L said...

You can duct tape the latch of an open door so it won't catch once it closes
It must have had an alarm on it, so that people couldn't let their friends into the movie for free. I think newer ones are designed so they can't be taped when closed.

I hope no one chains his emergency exits to prevent this.

chickelit said...

Jay said...
Oh how cute:

The Aurora Shooting: Sometimes There’s Nothing Wrong With Politicizing a Tragedy


It is a vile column. Whenever I see such things nowadays, even before reading the article, I click on the journalist's name or do a quick Google search of the author. Highly recommend.

chickelit said...

Increduously, the author of the article Jay linked manages to work in gay marriage. Oh such fetid festering minds.

traditionalguy said...

A psychopath Dx means a brain defect with a material cause. The Evil designation is saying a personal evil spirit has acted upon a otherwise normal person. They may both be right.

Psychiatry today uses strong drugs in place of electro-shock brain cell destruction used in the 1950s. Both are a control method awaiting a cure, but are not cures themselves. Cures seem to just happen as time passes.

Michael K said...

This sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic who was wrapped up in the story of the movie. Most schizophrenics are too disorganized to do something like this but the paranoid one can be very well organized and can seem sane until you touch one of their delusions,.

Alex said...

I'm sure this killer is a Romney-worshiping Republican. Ban all guns now!

MadisonMan said...

How dreadful. The shooting, not the reaction to it, that is. The reaction to it is kinda predictable.

holdfast said...

ABC has now retracted their Tea Party "link". Funny how they are so quick to jump to certain conclusions, but in other cases they will suspect everyone BUT the obvious perp. Was it Churchill who spoke about a lie traveling around the world while the truth is still putting its pants on?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/07/abc-news-tea-party-connection-incorrect-129588.html

Crimso said...

Ross has admitted he was wrong, but he also mentioned that Holmes had moved to CO to pursue a Ph.D. Combine that with "he dropped out of medical school" and you have a former graduate student (not a medical student) in one of the biomedical sciences.

I'll note that at least one report that I saw said he was armed with an "assault-type" weapon. Was it a model that was also involved in F&F? Can we now speculate that the real reason for all of this is F&F? Only an idiot or an extreme ideologue would do so. But asking whether he was in the Tea Party, that's perfectly normal thought process. For an idiot or an extreme ideolgue.

Dose of Sanity said...

Can I ask the obvious? Why the hell would it matter if he was in the tea party, absent some indication he did it based on tea party beliefs?

I don't get this "he was a member of x group, blame x group for this".

Why don't we just blame him, find out why (if we can) he did it, and work on trying to stop that from happening again?

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllieOop said...

Im sure as the days pass, we'll find out every detail of this person's life, but in the meantime I think Michael K's speculation is probably closest to the truth. Very interesting the differences in thought organization of the schizophrenic vs. the paranoid schizophrenic.

Alex said...

no doubt he was an Occupy member.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Since it now comes out that the shooter is a former medical student......can we blame Obama and Obamacare? After all, his prospects as a successful doctor are decidedly dimmer now with the advent of Obamacare. Perhaps the idea that he would become a serf to the state and told how much he can do and not do in his future medical practice drove him to the depths of despair? The prospect of taking on huge student debt, being saddled with government restrictions, paperwork and a lack of freedom drove him to the brink.

Makes about as much sense as any other speculative theory about Rush Limbaugh, Tea Party or Space Aliens controlling his brain. Right?

Crimso said...

"Cures seem to just happen as time passes."

Trust me. Scientists don't just squat down and shit out cures from time to time. Which isn't to say that none of them try that method (and some of it even gets through peer review).

Alex said...

He was acting out some scene in the film where the villain Bane urges his "occupy" followers to mass murder the residents of Gotham.

Alex said...

Allie - let us know when you are willing to accept your share of responsibility for this shooting.

holdfast said...

There was a shooting in Vancouver about 15 or so years ago (just one guy, it was a deliberate hit – during a screening of Donnie Brasco, for irony’s sake) where the shooter bought a ticket, sat down, confirmed the presence of the target, then exited through an emergency exit (not alarmed because they use it to empty the theater after showings), which he wedged open so that he could use it to re-enter once he retrieved his piece from the car. Seems like a similar tactic here.

AllieOop said...

Alex, sheesh, can it.

Tim said...

A caller on Viki McKenna's radio show pointed out that the shooting wasn't all the shooter's fault, but the "somebody else" built the roads and bridges that got the shooter there.

"...somebody along the line gave you some help…. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

Jake Diamond said...

The left has gone form blaming Rush Limbaugh to blaming the NRA.

Thanks for the update Jay. Please shut up now.

DADvocate said...

This sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic who was wrapped up in the story of the movie. Most schizophrenics are too disorganized to do something like this but the paranoid one can be very well organized and can seem sane until you touch one of their delusions,.

I worked in mental health off and on for 10 years, including 5 at a community mental health center. The first paranoid schizophrenic I met had an IQ of 145. Most were scary because, although generally pleasant, we would catch glimpses of what could happen.

Alex said...

Jay - can you provide the blame Limbaugh/NRA links?

Alex said...

Here's a comment from media matters:

Leo Cotnoir I'm sorry people but this is no different than when H. Rap Brown was convicted of arson because he said people should burn down their ghetto. Deleting my comment about how intemperate speech by verbal bomb throwers like Limbaugh leads to this sort of tragedy does not alter the truth.

Fucking douche.

Alex said...

Allie - when your side surrenders I will "can it".

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Breitbart is reporting that the Colorado Tea Partier Jim Holmes is a 52 year old Hispanic male.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/20/Exclusive-Interview-With-James-Michael-Holmes-Colorado-Tea-Party-Member

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Must be one of those "white hispanics"

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

I hate to get into speculation on this, but it's 1-2-3 happening. We know really zip, nada about the mental status of the shooter. The NcNaughton rule of insanity defense came about because Dan McNaughton had the paranoid belief that the Scottish ambassador was trying to kill him. McNaughton's diagnosis presumably would have been paranoid schizophrenia. He killed the Scottish ambassador in, in his mind, self defense. This doesn't sound like that to me but rather the action of a thrill seeker.

AllieOop said...

Whatever Alex, so inappropriate.

Alex said...

Allie - you think I give a shit? Thank Crack for radicalizing me.

EMD said...

Must be one of those "white hispanics"

I believe whispanics is the preferred nomenclature.

chickelit said...

AllieOop said...
Alex, sheesh, can it.

What will it take for the left disabuse their fantasy that the Tea Party is some kind of nascent National Socialist party? I've been to a Tea Party rally. Meade has been to a Tea Party rally. Does that make us Nazi's?

I just don't get the Ross/Stephanoupolus impetus.

Please explain.

Matthew Sablan said...

ABC, I think, already published an apology and retraction. Initially, they blamed social media, but eventually took responsibility like they ought to have.

Alex said...

Allie and her ilk have never withdrawn their allegations that Tea Party = Nazi.

Christopher in MA said...

But remember - there is absolutely no bias of any kind in the state-run media.

None. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Garage, Freder, Alpha, Shiloh, Jeremy, Jake, Ritmo ad nauseam tell us that, so it must be true.

AllieOop said...

Chickelit, what is inappropriate is placing blame on any political party or ideology, until we know what truly happened, it's wise to "can" that crap. Even o the shooter were to be connected to either group, he had to have had some underlying pathology.

EMD said...

Allie and her ilk have never withdrawn their allegations that Tea Party = Nazi.

Link (specifically to Allie) or GTFO.

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Chikelet:

We don't think you are nazis, just people with profound misunderstanding of the constitution and government in general.

Big difference.

p.s. My crim law professor used to say "Naaasis". He used Nazis as examples all the time and EVERY time he said it, half the class groaned at such a mispronouncation. Now I can't even type the word without hearing him.

Crimso said...

"What will it take for the left disabuse their fantasy that the Tea Party is some kind of nascent National Socialist party?"

Experiencing life under the real thing. By then, of course, it would be much too late for them to admit their error.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think our 'white hispanic', the wrongly accused Mr Holmes should sue the pants off of ABC and Ross/Stephanoupolus personally. Defamation of character. Reckless endangerment. I'm sure there are many other causes.

Just because you are an overpaid, under talented talking head, doesn't give you immunity from the law.

Sue them. Rake them over the coals. Slap their little winkies. Ok...maybe not that last part, but it would be great.

leslyn said...

April Apple said,

A bunch of shit about guns, carry permits, rotten lefties who will blame etc etc etc and other crap.

STFU.

Jake Diamond said...

But remember - there is absolutely no bias of any kind in the state-run media.

None. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Garage, Freder, Alpha, Shiloh, Jeremy, Jake, Ritmo ad nauseam tell us that, so it must be true.


WTF are you yapping about? I've never told you or anyone else here anything about "state-run media." Try engaging your brain before engaging your mouth.

Matthew Sablan said...

Dust Bunny: He's already done better. He gave an interview to Breitbart.com.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"I just don't get the Ross/Stephanoupolus impetus."

THey fear losing their control.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said..

Thanks for the update Jay. Please shut up now.


AWWWWWW, the political movement wittle jakie proudly associates with reveals themeselves to be ghoulish hacks, and having that pointed out makes wittle jakie butt hurt.

STOP IT!!!!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


Coward.

gregq said...

Alex,

Take it from a hard-core right winger: You're being an ass and a douche. You make the right look bad, and the left look better, with your imbecilic attempts to politicize this.

You want to hammer the left? Great. Find specific individuals on the left doing bad things, point them out, and hammer them.

Right now, you're a specific individual on the Right, doing bad things. That makes you the exact opposite of an effective partisan.

Jay said...

Dose of Sanity said...

We don't think you are nazis, just people with profound misunderstanding of the constitution and government in general.

Big difference.


As if you would know the first thing about the Constitution.

Thank you for descending into self-parody.

leslyn said...

Althouse said,

When things like this happen, decent people refrain from spinning out theories about why the killer — who presumably has deranged thought patterns — did what he did. Appropriating this event for political purposes is shameful, but it is happening.

Well, it was a good try, and worked until about 11:20. All over now.

Jay said...

chickelit said...
What will it take for the left disabuse their fantasy that the Tea Party is some kind of nascent National Socialist party? I've been to a Tea Party rally. Meade has been to a Tea Party rally. Does that make us Nazi's?


Nothing.

These people live in a cocoon of lies.

30+ years of social science data confirm that handgun bans don't work.

They still support banning guns, for example.

gregq said...

EMD said...

CNN reports the back door was propped open.

Maybe there is someone else involved?

Apparently, Holmes propped the door open (somehow) himself, then put on his gear.

"Emergency Exits" are supposed to sound alarms when opened. Did it do that, stop when the door was then closed, and the theater was so busy that no one bothered to go check?

EMD said...

Take it from a hard-core right winger: You're being an ass and a douche. You make the right look bad, and the left look better, with your imbecilic attempts to politicize this.


You are responding to Alex in good faith, which is something he rarely displays. He is nothing more than a forum provocateur — and will say anything to grab attention, no matter where it falls on the political spectrum.

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Greg

I think it was mentioned on this thread, but theaters often don't alarm emergency exits (and the law doesn't require you to) because they use them as extra egress points after shows.

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