July 18, 2012

"4 Pinocchios for an unproven Romney claim of 'crony capitalism.'"

It's the WaPo Fact Checker (which, we remember, just gave Obama 3 Pinocchios for suggesting Romney is a criminal.)

163 comments:

Rich B said...

Advice to Romney - replace Fisker with Solyndra and GM (aka UAW).

Matthew Sablan said...

I guess Romney should have mentioned that the total loan didn't go through because the company was late, as opposed to simply stating how much was at risk.

This is, of course, why I find it hard to really trust fact checkers. Romney is constantly measured by weasel words and what an average listener would interpret (true but false, etc.), whereas Obama is routinely given the benefit of the doubt.

Beorn said...

"WaPo fact-checker" sounds as oxymoronic as "color-blind art critic."

traditionalguy said...

Of course WaPo is protective of crony Federal Spending. It just does not exist, and that's their story line.

The lifeblood of the Federal Government is its monopoly on credit now that the Banks which were the traditional credit markets have been destroyed or the few left around as a show of normalcy have been neutered.

The Federal Government itself IS crony spending of borrowed money, with a shrinking military adjunct.

The WaPo wants its vibrant DC to continue to roll along, and WaPo issuing protective propaganda is its roll in that.

damikesc said...

This is, of course, why I find it hard to really trust fact checkers. Romney is constantly measured by weasel words and what an average listener would interpret (true but false, etc.), whereas Obama is routinely given the benefit of the doubt.

No joke. 3 Pinocchios for a claim that is patently false (Romney may have committed a felony) but 4 for noting that, well, people who give Obama money tend to do exceptionally well in terms of getting largesse from the taxpayers? Interesting.

I'm glad Romney is fighting back however. It's not like Fisker is even the most damning example of his crony capitalism. Crony capitalism has killed this country.

AprilApple said...

No mention of Solyndra. ( the media stays away from that truth) No mention of billionaire Pat Stryker's failed and bogus front for yet another solor "start up".
She was given hundreds of millions in secured government loans. She's a big democrat donor.
I give the fact checker, on this one, 4 pinocchios.

AprilApple said...

I am a little perplexed as to why the GOP doesn't do some major digging into billionaire democrat Pay Stryker.

EMD said...

Romney should be relentless about job creation and economic growth.

He should ask if Recovery Summer has been put off until next July (again)

The problem is, with his myriad ties to business, is that it would be easy to accuse Romney of the same thing (crony capitalism) as a potential President.

Matthew Sablan said...

April: The GOP, for all its faults, tends to be a bit less excited about going after private citizens. Compare how quickly Joe the Plumber and was savaged to how long it takes the GOP to do that. Hell, Politico ran an article about a guy in a Romney ad the day the ad aired!

The GOP fights dirty, but they tend to hold their fire for political operatives. Well, they tend to be better about not making it as obvious they're about to attack a private citizen.

damikesc said...

I am a little perplexed as to why the GOP doesn't do some major digging into billionaire democrat Pay Stryker.

I never heard of her, so conservative media isn't doing much either.

Honestly, the media isn't going to do much to hurt Obama. Maybe discuss her closer to the election.

BarryD said...

Unproven, my ass. Crony capitalism is a way of life in DC, for one thing, and there's a laundry list of undisputed individual cases under Obama.

m stone said...

"Lane contributes to some Democrats but mostly Republicans..."

Depending on the party in power WaPo weasels!

Returned as favors is crony capitalism anyway you cut it.

AprilApple said...

Matthew.
I get that and I tend to agree. In Pat Stryker’s case - we have a private citizen who is a prominent BILLIONARE and known fat cat democrat donor. She's not just some rich person minding her won business. She was able to secure millions in government loans for a "start up" solar company. A company that just went bankrupt and the people who used to work there are all out of a job.

Start digging.
Or maybe just a little reporting from the so-called news media? Isn't anyone curious where our tax dollars are going?

AprilApple said...

Billionare democrat donor PAT STRYKER (not Pay Stryker)

edutcher said...

Choom could have always shot down the loan.

FWIW, Insta has been following L'Affaire Fisker and has noted the Senate, the SEC, and a whistleblower who sees something off-kilter.

AprilApple said...

The Pat Stryker saga. 400 million in government loan guarantees; 70 million down the drain.

As a billionare, why not use your risk your own money? Oh that's right, she's a democrat.

Tom Spaulding said...

Fantastic Rhetoric!

Jay said...

Romney said Obama gave “$500 million in loans to a company called Fisker” — but it was a loan originally submitted under the Bush administration for a Bush administration program.

Um, so in other words, what Romney said was factually correct, but Bush!

Does everyone realize that this "Bush program" was authorized by a Congress in which Obama served and Democrats controlled?

Further, how is when a loan application submitted relevant to a new Administration granting it?

jacksonjay said...

m stone is right, party in power cronyism is the dynamic. How about GE? GE CEO Jeff Immelt is about as close to Blameless Barry as any corporate chieftan. Jobs Czar and all that, yet he claims to be a Republican.

GE got TARP and Stimulus money!

Immelt chairs the Jobs Council as he ships jobs to China! Immelt and Barry laugh about no "shovel ready" projects!

Brent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Croix said...

You might also note, Washington Post fact checker, that Al Gore was made a senior partner at Kleiner Perkins. Not because he knows fucking anything about venture capital, either. But because the firm was trying to buy it's way into cap and trade legislation. Since Kleiner Perkins conveniently has funded a "carbon credit trading company," Kleiner Perkins would make millions, if not billions, as the rest of the world economy shot up in flames. That was the fucking plan, anyway. But and go ahead and claim it's a super-lie to tie in John Doerr and the rest of Kleiner Perkins with the greentech boondoggle. Morons!

Jay said...

HA HA HA HA HA

Right on cue:

Obama Official Was Like “A Hooker Dropped Into A Prison Exercise Yard”
...
In one email, Steve Westly, an Obama fundraiser whose company received close to a half billion dollars in green energy funds in 2009, cites his ties to senior Obama advisor Valerie Jarrett, campaign manager Jim Messina, and secretary of energy Steven Chu.


4 Pinnochios!!!

stan said...

Unproven?!

This is like the way the news media started covering Clinton scandals after the 94 election wake up call made them realize they were going to have to really cover for their boy.

'Republican alleged claim of scandal unproven -- not supported by a criminal conviction that has been upheld on appeal.'

Christopher in MA said...

Fourteen comments after April mentions Pat Stryker and nobody asks how many dollars did at Stryker lose over Macho Grande?

Turn in your nerd cards, people.

phx said...

Honestly, the media isn't going to do much to hurt Obama. Maybe discuss her closer to the election.

Sounds like the same ole victim talk from the conservative side. Maybe you'd like to be given special consideration or help for your victim's status.

Balfegor said...

This is, of course, why I find it hard to really trust fact checkers. Romney is constantly measured by weasel words and what an average listener would interpret (true but false, etc.), whereas Obama is routinely given the benefit of the doubt.

Romney should realise that -- honestly, I don't know why he didn't just go with some of the other energy investments.

In all honesty, though, Obama's too inexperienced to have real cronies -- he just doesn't have those kinds of relationships outside of Chicago, and even in Chicago, he was a minor, marginal figure. The causal line probably follows a slightly different path -- these plutocrats bankrolled him last time because they knew he'd be giving out free money for trendy technologies with minimal oversight, not to get a quid for future quo, or because they're his cronies. And there's nothing corrupt about that. That's just good sense. On their part, at least.

damikesc said...

To ignore the difference in treatment of Romney and Obama is to ignore reality. If Bush unilaterally decided to end a popular bipartisan program like welfare reform...well, it would lead the news for weeks.

The media cannot die fast enough.

campy said...

There's no media bias except for Faux Noise and Flush Limpballs, right phx?

Bob Ellison said...

We should ignore this, because ignorance is tolerance is sophistication is nuance.

Chip Ahoy said...

ole victim talk from the conservative side

Complainy-ass non entity says what?

Please elaborate. Fully. I would love to skip it.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Maybe you'd like to be given special consideration or help for your victim's status."

-- It's not conservatives that push the Fairness Doctrine.

Michael said...

General Electric with their CEO a pal of the administration. A company with dozens, if not hundreds, of factories in other countries and a company that paid no, zero, zip, nada, zilch, in corporate taxes.

Saint Croix said...

Barack Obama has conspired and plotted to frame an innocent man as the "serial foot-licker."

I hear the Washington Post Fact-checker is giving this story three pinnochios.

Michael K said...

The WaPo was told to get back on the reservation after straying away a week ago and this is it.

Pogo said...

"For the first quarter of 2012, [WaPo] daily newspaper circulation declined 9.8 percent. Revenue from its newspaper division declined 8 percent.

...Washington Post stock has fallen more than 60 percent since 2004.
"

WaPo has lost around 250K subscribers in the past 10 years, now around 516K for the daily. A third of their paying readers have split. (I'm sure it has nothing to do with their mendacity. Nothinq at all!)

So fuck them. It's their last or second-to-last chance to tilt the field for the Democrats.

But few people care what WaPo says is a lie anymore. Everyone knows they are untrustworthy shills, another media arm for Democrats.

Wapo, meet fork.

garage mahal said...

Sorta cute watching righties feign outrage over crony capitalism.

WHERE IS THE JUSTICE!

Pogo said...

Unions are one of the main players in crony capitalism, garage.

but you knew that.

4 Pinnochios for you.

damikesc said...

Sorta cute watching righties feign outrage over crony capitalism.

WHERE IS THE JUSTICE!


It's more fun watching Progressives sell out their "core beliefs" in search of political power.

OMG, UNITARY EXECUTIVE!! AIIEEE!!

AIIEE!! CORPORATE WELFARE!!!

WE CANNOT KEEP GITMO OPEN!!!

WHISTLEBLOWERS SHOULD BE PROTECTED BECAUSE DISSENT IS PATRIOTISM!!!

How does it feel to know that everything you "believed" in was a total sham?

Bob Ellison said...

Garage, please explain.

AprilApple said...

Garage - we are outraged over all of it. I don't see anyone on the left outraged about any of the corruption or crony capitalsim streaming out of this administration.

ricpic said...

The WaPo fact checker never heard of the Jeffrey Immelt GE crony connection or Barry's disastrous Government Motors Chevy Volt that loses hundreds of thousands PER CAR, bursts into flame and only survives on our dime?

Jonathan Card said...

I don't buy it. I have a business with partners, and we talk to each other and support each other's projects, even if we are the lead on it. Just because the other partner is the "main" partner, it's still suspect. Sometimes if there is a conflict of interest, we will make a point of excluding a partner from a particular project, but they don't say that happened here, and it doesn't matter when the VC money was raised; only that the DoE loan was approved by Obama's administration. Their critique doesn't hold up.

edutcher said...

phx said...

Honestly, the media isn't going to do much to hurt Obama. Maybe discuss her closer to the election.

Sounds like the same ole victim talk from the conservative side. Maybe you'd like to be given special consideration or help for your victim's status.


As opposed to the Lefties who scream, "Rrraaaaciiiissttt", and demand endless aoplogies when they're "offended"?

Matthew Sablan said...

Here's the thing; Romney was technically wrong with his specific example, which the WaPo rightly hit him on. The problem is, when Obama has been wrong on examples, the WaPo is not as hard on him. Remember true but false? Fake but accurate? The media gives a pass when the left is wrong on the specifics because they agree with them in general. For Republicans, when they are wrong on the specifics, it is used to indict their general argument.

Which would be fine, but a neutral arbiter like the media should treat both arguments the same way.

Christopher in MA said...

How does it feel to know that everything you 'believed' in was a total sham?

This is garage you're talking about. He's the living embodiment of Fen's Law: The left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture others about.

Roger J. said...

Interesting indeed that so-called "fact checking" is now a cottage industry, and I suspect displays the same biases that the facts they purport to check have.
They must also assume that the American public is too stupid do this task. Shame on us for even paying attention to them. Says more about our collective stupidity than it does the so-called fact checkers. Fortunately, only the extreme left and right of the blogosphere are exposed to them.

Gahrie said...

Romney said Obama gave “$500 million in loans to a company called Fisker” — but it was a loan originally submitted under the Bush administration for a Bush administration program.

The Obama administration is taking credit for new oil and gas wells that were authorized under the Bush administration.

Rusty said...

Balfegor said...
This is, of course, why I find it hard to really trust fact checkers. Romney is constantly measured by weasel words and what an average listener would interpret (true but false, etc.), whereas Obama is routinely given the benefit of the doubt.

Romney should realise that -- honestly, I don't know why he didn't just go with some of the other energy investments.

In all honesty, though, Obama's too inexperienced to have real cronies -- he just doesn't have those kinds of relationships outside of Chicago, and even in Chicago, he was a minor, marginal figure.


He was friends with the Mayor
The governor
Michael Madigan
Rezko.

Mover nad shaker? No. Good little progressive operative? You bet.

Bob Ellison said...
Garage, please explain.

He can't.
He's a self admitted liar. He'll ay anything.

Matthew Sablan said...

I like when someone pointed out the fact checker who went on vacation from fact checking for a few years until it was time to fact check some Republicans, without a single fact check for the entire Obama administration during those years.

Unknown said...

Ann, if you need more proof of the crony capitalism, here's a link: http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/18/videos-romney-rnc-on-offense-on-crony-capitalism-in-obama-stimulus-programs/

Tom said...

Hijacking the thread for the latest Druxtaposition:

Obama eyes Sherrif Joe, Big Jim Christy Eyes Obama, and Batman eyeballs (!) Weiner, who just pulled out....

Tom said...

And guess who Weiner is eyeing?....you baby!

Harsh Pencil said...

OT: Great new drudgextaposition.

On top, picture of Christie and headline
Christie to give keynote speech at convention...

Just below this:

GALLUP: Americans' Concerns About Obesity Soar, Surpass Smoking...

phx said...

Please keep us updated on the Drudge page.

Balfegor said...

Re: Rusty:

Mover nad shaker? No. Good little progressive operative? You bet.

That's just it -- he was the crony, not the fellow who had cronies.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Sorta cute watching righties feign outrage over crony capitalism.



The Tea Party has defeated Republican incumbents.

No similar effort takes place on the left.

Further, you can give zero examples of "crony capitalism" on the right without lying.

Thanks for participating.

Saint Croix said...

Sorta cute watching righties feign outrage over crony capitalism.

Sarah Palin's whole career was based on attacking crony capitalism. And you assholes couldn't run her out of government fast enough.

The tea party has been attacking crony capitalists in the Republican party from day one. And who does your side demonize the most? The tea party and Sarah Palin. That's where your most vicious slanders aim.

Because crony capitalism is your bread and butter. And crony socialism, union graft. You get your corruption wherever you can find it.

So spare me your moral righteousness. When's the time you attacked corruption in your party, Garage? I thought so.

garage mahal said...

Sarah Palin's whole career was based on attacking crony capitalism.

All two years? LOL

During her debut acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention the following month, Palin claimed that TransCanada was already "building" the pipeline, while in her widely-watched debate with Joe Biden, she declared that "we began" to build the pipeline, in both instances implying that it was already under construction.

It was not--and the simple fact of the matter is that four years later, construction of the pipeline has yet to commence. It will likely never be built, and certainly not in the configuration proposed by Palin and her cohorts. But TransCanada will still receive its $500 million subsidy.

Corporate cronyism on steroids? More like corporate cronyism on Wasilla meth.
Link

Hmmm. 500 million dollar subsidy. Where does that ring a bell?

Dante said...

I found Andy's issues with the anti Obama ad more compelling than this WAPO post.

JackOfClubs said...

I don't get why Romney is choosing this particular example if it is so much of a stretch. Surely there are much better cases that are well documented (someone has already mentioned Solydra). Is he picking Fisker because it has some particular resonance with his audience? I can't tell from the article but that is the only explanation that makes sense. He needs to drop this and stick with the facts.

Jay said...

Uh-oh:

Obama’s Top Bundler Jonathan Lavine Was In Charge of Bain During GST Steel Layoffs

4 Pinocchios!!!!

Jay said...

Hmmm. 500 million dollar subsidy. Where does that ring a bell?

Note:

Your utter inability to distinguish between the actions of a state government and the federal government speaks volumes.

So does your linking to the author of an anti-Palin book.

Why, it is almost as if you can't give examples of "crony capitalism" on the right without lying, or something.

bgates said...

Romney said Obama gave “$500 million in loans to a company called Fisker” — but it was a loan originally submitted under the Bush administration for a Bush administration program.

Obama said Bush spent hundreds of billions in Iraq - but violation of the terms of the 1991 cease fire had originally been used to justify military action by the Clinton administration.

garage mahal said...

Why, it is almost as if you can't give examples of "crony capitalism" on the right without lying, or something..

I just did, moron.

Cedarford said...

Balefagor - In all honesty, though, Obama's too inexperienced to have real cronies -- he just doesn't have those kinds of relationships outside of Chicago, and even in Chicago, he was a minor, marginal figure.

----------
From a very early time Obama was "discovered" and mentored by some very wealthy and or powerful people on the Left.
They apparantly got him into Harvard Law.
Then back in Chicago, they ensured he was at all the right parties, flown off by private jet with other "young talent" to events wealthy Dems did at the Aspen Insitute and other organs. Obama was introduced to wealthy progressive Jewish donors and media masters in NYC and Hollywood.
All back in the 90s.
3 very wealthy Jewish Families of Chicago - the Crown, Pritzker, and Klutznicks - got the entrees Obama needed - and also since the billionaire Crown and Pritzker Families pay lots into the Dailey Machine and control the Board of Trustees at U of Chicago...got both Obamas out of the "distraction" of a legal career (that Michelle in particular was showing to be ill-suited for).

Obama in 2006 was apparantly the only "senior law lecturer" in the country that was not a retired judge, senior partner at a major firm, or visiting law professor. Thanks to the Crowns and Pritzkers.
He was the only person in the country to have been retained past the customary 2 years as lecturer, the only one to be promoted to senior lecturer. All without any academic work or involvement in law - or helping with other Faculty functions.

(The progressive Jewish media covers for him ...but still leaks come out of the law school. About Obama showing up to give the same two classes a week he did in 2005 as he did in 1997...No involvement with other law school profs, avoiding any discussion or debate with them on law matters. No other duties like other profs and teaching assistants are assigned or "encouraged to volunteer for". Some say he was hated for being the lazy pet of the Crown and Pritzker patrons.)

Obama was not a marginal figure, save in terms of accomplishments before his Teddy Kennedy mentored 2004 Speech. But Obama has always been a very well-connected person with powerful mentors.

Jay said...

But TransCanada will still receive its $500 million subsidy.

Hysterical.

From a state government with a surplus, no less.

Hey stupid, is TransCanada on the verge of going bankrupt like these energy companies?

Jay said...

garage mahal said...



I just did, moron.


Actually, you didn't.

And you're too stupid to see why.

Bob Ellison said...

garage, I spent more time than I should reading the pap to which you linked.

Come, let us reason together. Don't be a poo-throwing monkey. I want to hear about "righties [feigning] outrage over crony capitalism." Back it up.

Eric said...

This is garage you're talking about. He's the living embodiment of Fen's Law: The left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture others about.

Here in Northern California we have probably the most public leftism I've ever seen. Not just bumper stickers, of which there are many, but also people in normal conversation just assume everyone they're talking to agrees the only reason you wouldn't vote for Obama is racism. "Diversity is our Strength!" and all that.

But they can't pull their own kids out of the local public school fast enough when a few black children show up.

damikesc said...

How does it feel to know that everything you 'believed' in was a total sham?

This is garage you're talking about. He's the living embodiment of Fen's Law: The left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture others about.


In my defense, I did put believed in quotes. I doubt he believes anything. That requires some capacity to think.

Hey, garage, how is John Doe coming?

That's just it -- he was the crony, not the fellow who had cronies.

He's the empty suit. He's not the hanger.

But they can't pull their own kids out of the local public school fast enough when a few black children show up.

My father-in-law calls me a bigot because I oppose Obama (he actually faked a suicide attempt last year over a perceived slight of Obama)...but then will regale me with how Tiger Woods cheated because blacks can't be faithful or something.

Progs are amusing.

LoafingOaf said...

"Great new drudgextaposition"

Speaking of Drudge:

Drudge Funneled At Least 30 Million Visitors To Conspiracy Websites In The Last Year

A ThinkProgress study of the the Drudge Report reveals the popular internet aggregator has linked 184 times to InfoWars and World Net Daily, two sites that promote the internet’s worst conspiracy theories, since June 2011. By directing millions of visitors to these websites, Drudge is providing critical financial and reputational support to publications that argue 9/11 was an inside job, FEMA is building concentration camps and President Obama was not born in the United States.

Yeah, I noticed last night and this morning that Drudge is pushing the latest Sheriff Joe Arpaio birther bullshit really hard.

The conservative media is okay with Drudge promoting all this insanity. Anything to win an election, I guess.

damikesc said...

Yeah, I noticed last night and this morning that Drudge is pushing the latest Sheriff Joe Arpaio birther bullshit really hard.

The conservative media is okay with Drudge promoting all this insanity. Anything to win an election, I guess.


So, noting a story exists means one supports or approves of it?

Intriguing.

Of course, you linked to Think Progress, a site devoid of thought and obsessed with keeping us tied to old, poor ideas.

Matthew Sablan said...

Did that study see how many people that Drudge has pointed toward left-leaning sites? How about how many Truthers still post on Daily Kos? Or is it one of those studies with a solution looking for a methodology?

SeanF said...

Christopher in MA: Fourteen comments after April mentions Pat Stryker and nobody asks how many dollars did at Stryker lose over Macho Grande?

Over Macho Grande, Christopher?

Freder Frederson said...

Romney should be relentless about job creation and economic growth.

Yeah, it would be nice to know exactly how Romney intends to create jobs and grow the economy. I haven't heard one concrete example yet. (and no, repealing Obamacare will not magically cause the economy to grow or create one job.)

garage mahal said...

I want to hear about "righties [feigning] outrage over crony capitalism." Back it up.

Did I not just give you an example?

Now Jay will say it doesn't count because it was state level cronyism, or that TransCanada were allegedly fiscally sound at the time, or Alaska had a surplus, yada yada yada.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

Is anyone going to fact check Obama's claim that businesses don't build infrastructure.

It's planned by planning businesses,
designed by designing businesses,
built by contracting businesses,
paid for with taxes paid by businesses
paid for by taxes from individuals also paid by the businesses they work for or invest in,
even the politicians that take the credit for doing it without lifting a single tool are paid for by taxes ultimately coming from business.

One way or another infrastructure is 100% done by business, and that's in addition to building the business itself.

Everything we have is a result of business, and these poseurs attack it every day with their actions, and their stupid, ungrateful rhetoric that still is admired by some.

What passes for intelligentsia these days ain't what it used to be, because in the past everyone could see their connection to real accomplishment. They are just dumber now, plain and simple.

Even Pinocchios are built by a puppet making business.

phx said...

Complainy-ass non entity says what?

I SAID 'VICTIM TALK FROM THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE'!

Alex said...

Yeah, it would be nice to know exactly how Romney intends to create jobs and grow the economy.

Typical from a socialist, you think government creates jobs. Romney says get government out of the way of the private sector and it will do it's magic.

damikesc said...

Over Macho Grande, Christopher?

He'll never get over Macho Grande.

Yeah, it would be nice to know exactly how Romney intends to create jobs and grow the economy. I haven't heard one concrete example yet. (and no, repealing Obamacare will not magically cause the economy to grow or create one job.)

Not doing what Obama is doing will lead to job growth, based on the success of Obama's plans. I want to know how MORE government spending and MORE debt we cannot afford will fix the problems, but apparently, you're not curious about that.

Now Jay will say it doesn't count because it was state level cronyism, or that TransCanada were allegedly fiscally sound at the time, or Alaska had a surplus, yada yada yada.

I didn't notice a lot of donations to her campaign...but I bet that was just a mild oversight or something.

Bob Ellison said...

I want to hear about "righties [feigning] outrage over crony capitalism." Back it up.

Did I not just give you an example?


No. Can you give one? You seem to rely on a link to an unsupportable loony leftist rant, but I'm looking for "righties [feigning] outrage".

Bob Ellison said...

Let me help you, garage mahal. I hate these damned lefties saying dumb things about us! They are bad people! They should be shut up! Especially when they decry the government-private policies that are good for all humankind! Darn it!

Now you can quote me.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Did I not just give you an example?



No. See your "example" was from a left wing hack who:

1. Can not provide an example from the federal government, which is the topic here.

2. Does not in the example demonstrate bundlers or campaign contributors getting preferential treatment

3. Show that the "loan" is propping up said business venture.

But you keep trying, I'm sure you'll find something.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...

Yeah, it would be nice to know exactly how Romney intends to create jobs and grow the economy.


Hysterical.

Note you don't ask that question of the President you voted for.

Gee, I wonder why that is?

Bob Ellison said...

Wait, I can do better than that. I hate how big dairy companies are in bed with the federal government! They churn butter together and we all have to pay the...

whey. Gonna have to work on it.

Jay said...

and no, repealing Obamacare will not magically cause the economy to grow or create one job.)

How would you know?

jr565 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

Oh yeah, more grants!!

The Amonix solar manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, heavily financed under an Obama administration energy initiative, has closed its 214,000-square-foot facility 14 months after it opened.

Officials at Amonix headquarters in Seal Beach, Calif., have not responded to repeated calls for comment this week. The company today began selling equipment, from automated tooling systems to robotic welding cells.

A designer and manufacturer of concentrated photovoltaic solar power systems, Amonix received $6 million in federal tax credits and a $15.6 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy to build the plant in North Las Vegas.


Obama sure can pick 'em, can't he?

garage mahal said...

"I don't like your source!"

"I've redefined the word here. Please adhere to the new definition!"

So predictable.

Bob Ellison said...

So garage, your argument comes to "I didn't say that!" and "my sources are idiots"?

jr565 said...

Even if it is a 4 pinocchio lie, (which it isn't, but for the hypothetical) Romney should double down on it, and if the obama's cry foul should say "suck it up, whiney bitches".
They've set the tone by suggesting he's a criminal and then not even apologizing for such obvious slanders. So f them of they can't take a few distorted charges. Romney should throw in some innuendo that there is criminal activity going on as well. Ther probably is, but even if cant be proven, f obama. Scorched earth!

7/18/12 4:05 PM

Bob Ellison said...

I'm sorry; I've got to go shoot some fish in a barrel.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
"I don't like your source!"

"I've redefined the word here. Please adhere to the new definition!"

So predictable.


Um, you're the one trying to redefine "crony capitalism" clown.

Note: in all of your flailing, you can't bother to ask yourself why you can't come up with a better example since "the right" does this crony capitalism stuff all the time.

Gee, I wonder why that is?

Jake Diamond said...

Jay has previously stipulated that everything that appears in the Washington Post is 100% true.

Roger J. said...

Re the question about how Romney will create jobs (when Mr Obama hasnt): keystone pipeline, offshore drilling, and reducing the regulatory burden--what's Mr Obama's plan? raise taxes and spend more federal bucks. I await your critical analysis

garage mahal said...

Dick Cheney meeting behind closed doors with the energy industry to craft an energy policy was NOT crony capitalism. And neither was Halliburton. Cheney's Halliburton stock was almost worthless before the Iraq War, and those no-bid contracts were because ONLY Halliburton could do the job. Swear!

If you think otherwise, you're like fucked up in the head or something!

ChimpyMcHalliburton!

Bob Ellison said...

garage, America would be better off without crony capitalism. On the right, it's often called "statism" or "fascism".

Shouting obscenities and untruths, though, helps nobody. America depends upon the assumption of honesty, and other cultures (notably Islamic ones) do poorly without it. You undo honesty when you spout crap. Try not to.

garage mahal said...

Shouting obscenities and untruths, though, helps nobody.

You have to at lease try to demonstrate why what I said was an untruth. I don't think you have even attempted it yet.

Roger J. said...

Freder: you could always check Mr Romney's web site for examples--but I already gave you a couple and should have included elminiating restrictions on fracking. Now admittedly its a politicians website, but somehow I suspect that Mr Romney's promises are probably more sound that Mr Obama's were. Say--life is better now that that we dont torture and have eliminated guantanamo as a prison, is it not? I think those were Mr Obama's promises. And how about that kill list thing? Good example of due process, no?

rhhardin said...

I'd go for irony capitalism.

Bob Ellison said...

You have to at lease try to demonstrate why what I said was an untruth.

Very good! You're learning. So let me get back to your original point about righties [feigning] outrage over crony capitalism. Got a link? a quote? a something?

At lease something!

furious_a said...

he picking Fisker because it has some particular resonance with his audience?

Dunno, maybe it's because Fisker gets a half-bil guaranteed and builds their cars in Finland.

Ingrates.

Freder Frederson said...

keystone pipeline, offshore drilling, and reducing the regulatory burden

So what, a couple thousand jobs and a vague promise to reduce the regulatory burden.

If you want more offshore drilling the oil and drilling companies should pay more attention to safety.

furious_a said...

...he picking Fisker because it has some particular resonance with his audience?

And maybe because taxpayers are fronting a half-bil to build cars in Finland that only toffs like Leonard di Caprio, Al Gore and Colin Powell can afford?

Roger J. said...

Seems to me the AFL-CIO estimated some 20K jobs for the keystone pipeline, alone. Yeah THAT AFL-CIO which supports the project--you're flailing Freder--drill baby drill. And anything to say about gitmo, kill lists and torture? those were always your hobby horses.

Now what has Mr Obama done to create jobs?

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

And neither was Halliburton. Cheney's Halliburton stock was almost worthless before the Iraq War, and those no-bid contracts were because ONLY Halliburton could do the job.


You have not one utter clue what the value of Halliburnton's stock was at any moment in time.

Further, you also can't explain why the Clinton Administration gave Halliburton a no-bid contract for work in the Balkans.

Since they're like so unqualified.

Idiot.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Jay has previously stipulated that everything that appears in the Washington Post is 100% true.


You are utterly incapable of making a post here without lying.

garage mahal said...

. So let me get back to your original point about righties [feigning] outrage over crony capitalism. Got a link? a quote? a something?

This thread!

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...



So what, a couple thousand jobs


You're only off by an order of magnitude, but hey, who cares, you need those lies to justify your silly, ignorant political beliefs.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Dick Cheney meeting behind closed doors with the energy industry to craft an energy policy was NOT crony capitalism


Idiot:

Your unfamiliarity with the term "crony capitalism" and how and why it is practiced, is a you problem.

Watching you continue to demonstrate you are one of the dumber people on the Internet is getting quite passe.

Fen said...

Told you. Wapo "fact check" last week against Obama is just the usual playbook: biased ref makes bad call against "his" team in the 3rd quarter when it won't make a difference in the outcome.

You can be sure Wapo "fact check" will cheat against Romney in the 4th Quarter, when it really matters.

C'mon peeps, we've seen this all before.

garage mahal said...

Wonder why TransCanada would want to spend so much to build a long ass pipeline all the way to the gulf? Why not send it to Midwest refineries?

Hey, wait a minute. The Gulf is in the Gulf! Open seas.

You don't think.....?

Nahhh!

Bob Ellison said...

This thread!

Professor, I know you must work during the day, teaching people how to think and all, and it must be tiring, especially knowing that they are probably paying too much to learn what you teach, but can you help me out here?

garage, logic is fairly simple. You might try starting with Aristotle.

Christopher in MA said...

and those no bid contracts were because ONLY Halliburton could do the job.

I guarantee that if I put a gun to your head, asshat, you not only couldn't name another company that does what Halliburton does, you couldn't even tell me what Halliburton itself does.

Like I've said - you're just a bum on the streetcorner shitting his pants.

Roger J. said...

so Garage--you oppose the keystone pipeline? most refineries are in the gulf area--I honestly dont understand your point about open seas--if open seas were the issue it would be far cheaper to pipeline the crude to British Columbia than to the gulf and they can sell it to China and India without going thru the panama canal or around the Horn.

EMD said...

The Federal government should not be in the business of giving and grants or loans to any business of any kind.

It's picking winners and losers outside of the natural influence of the market.

And I could give a shit if the Feds have a (D) or (R) by their name, so no need to give me SQUIRREL! examples.

furious_a said...

Garage: Cheney's Halliburton stock was almost worthless before the Iraq War...

No, it wasn't. It was actually as much as triple the price prior to hostilities (March 2003).

And he didn't profit from any retained options
options, either, other than the charitable deduction.

Garage -- every word a lie, including "and" and "the"...and as stupid as Kerry-for-President, to boot.

EMD said...

I guarantee that if I put a gun to your head, asshat, you not only couldn't name another company that does what Halliburton does, you couldn't even tell me what Halliburton itself does.


As of 2012, Halliburton has 3 direct competitors.

Baker-Hughes, Schlumberger, and Technip.

Technip is located in France, so they are out as a national source for the kind of work Halliburton does.

Baker-Hughes was formed in 1987. Whether or not their capabilities were up to the role needed in Iraq. I cannot say.

Schlumberger appears to be a French-based company. However, they have offices in Houston, Texas and The Hague. I suspect the global HQ is in Paris, as the founder of the company was from France.

So, other than Halliburton, the only other resource the Armed Forces could conceivably used in a foreign military theater would have been Baker-Hughes.

Jake Diamond said...

So Jay is backtracking on his previous argument that "if it's in the Washington Post, it must be true!"

Of course I predicted this. This is how denial works. Jay accepts or rejects information and opinion based on how well it shields his bubble. Last week the Washington Post fact check column was the ultimate authority. This week, not so much.

Enjoy your bubble, Jay! Don't let harsh reality invade your existence.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

So Jay is backtracking on his previous argument that "if it's in the Washington Post, it must be true!"


Except I never made any such argument, you effing imbecile.

garage mahal said...

so Garage--you oppose the keystone pipeline? most refineries are in the gulf area--I honestly dont understand your point about open seas--if open seas were the issue it would be far cheaper to pipeline the crude to British Columbia than to the gulf and they can sell it to China and India without going thru the panama canal or around the Horn.

So why do they want to build a 2000 mile pipeline to the gulf?

My guess is it will not be made into gasoline for our vehicles, or made into gasoline at all, but instead refined into jet fuel and diesel.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Wonder why TransCanada would want to spend so much to build a long ass pipeline all the way to the gulf? Why not send it to Midwest refineries?


I wonder why you don't know that there is already thousands of miles of TransCanada pipeline going all across America to "Midwest refineries"?

furious_a said...

Garage: Wonder why TransCanada would want to spend so much to build a long ass pipeline all the way to the gulf? Why not send it to Midwest refineries?

Because the Canadian tar sands oil is high-sulfur content, and the Gulf Coast refineries, especially those around Houston, are better configured to refine that feedstock (as they do for high-sulfur Venezuelan oil) than are the Midwest refineries.

The midwest refineries would have to be completely refurbished to handle the Canadian oil, with the resultant production delays and shrieking about price-fixing.

Because the Oklahoma-Texas portion is already built. Pipelines are safer than oil tankers, too.

Because under NAFTA and Canada's NEP, Canada as a captive supplier would have sold the tar sands oil to the US at a discount to the market price. Which they won't, now, since the US won't complete the pipeline.

All of which should have been apparent even to the dim-bulb appointees at Obama's DoE. You know, the ones who went all-in on Solyndra.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Of course I predicted this


You predicted that you would argue against things I never said and would post lies on the Internet?

furious_a said...

Garage: jet fuel and diesel.

And planes, trucks, buses, locomotives and Jettas aren't "vehicles"?

Seriously, Garage, you're making a fool of yourself.

Christopher in MA said...

Making?

Jake Diamond said...

Except I never made any such argument, you effing imbecile.

Yeah, you did. It was a damn pathetic argument too, and I gave you every opportunity to squirm away from it, but you insisted that the Washington Post was the ultimate authority.

Have you considered the possibility that you have rabies? It would definitely explain a lot of the symptoms you exhibit here.

Jay said...

My guess is it will not be made into gasoline for our vehicles, or made into gasoline at all, but instead refined into jet fuel and diesel.

And then what?

The construction of the pipeline won't create jobs?

Note the utter incoherence here.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Yeah, you did. It was a damn pathetic argument too, and I gave you every opportunity to squirm away from it, but you insisted that the Washington Post was the ultimate authority.


I bet I did!

Really!

And you can totally like find and quote the posts where I said that too!

You can!!!

Moron.

Jake Diamond said...

You predicted that you would argue against things I never said and would post lies on the Internet?

Jay doesn't seem to understand that all the stupid things he's written before are still "on the Internet."

The internet isn't an Etch A Sketch like your man Mittens. You don't get to give it a shake and have the history of your doltish comments disappear. You have to live with all the stupid things you've said in the past, so stop your whining.

Jake Diamond said...

Note the utter incoherence here.

Jay - I always note it with every one of your posts, but I'm glad to see that you're putting a warning label on your comments now.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Jay doesn't seem to understand that all the stupid things he's written before are still "on the Internet."


Nice reading comprehension you have, idiot.

Really, that was totally like what I said.

It was!

garage mahal said...

And planes, trucks, buses, locomotives and Jettas aren't "vehicles"?

Sure. Doesn't do us much good if they are in Europe, Latin America, or China, does it?

In view of the foregoing, it should not be surprising that the number one export of the U.S. last year was oil (approximately 80 percent refined as diesel fuel). Oil companies can, and do, sell our oil to the highest bidder, anywhere in the world. And Valero forecasts that the worldwide demand for diesel fuel will triple in the next few years.

• The U.S. refineries receiving and refining the Canadian tar sands oil are located in Port Arthur, Texas, in a Foreign Trade Zone. This means that any product made in that zone is exempt from U.S. customs duties and Federal and State taxes – as long as it’s exported! And the refineries are configured to make middle distillates: diesel fuel and jet fuel.
Link

Jay said...

Jay doesn't seem to understand that all the stupid things he's written before are still "on the Internet."

Assclown:

Reproduce the comments where I said the Washington Post was he ultimate authority since you know so much about the Internet and stuff.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Sure. Doesn't do us much good if they are in Europe, Latin America, or China, does it?


Um, oil is a global commodity.

You should research the term "commodity" and get back to us.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Sure. Doesn't do us much good if they are in Europe, Latin America, or China, does it?


Note:

In silly ignorant liberal land, if gasoline isn't refined in America, it doesn't do us much good

One wonders if the idiot grasps the concept of "imports" and the fact that people use energy in their homes with natural gas imported from Yemen, for example.

Probably not. All too complex for the idiot.

Jake Diamond said...

Reproduce the comments where I said the Washington Post was he ultimate authority since you know so much about the Internet and stuff.

Why? No one but you gives a damn about it, and if I produce the evidence, you'll just play your usual game of denial.

You and I both know what you said, and both of us know that you're lying about it now. That's good enough for me, and if it isn't good enough for you, then you can go search for it yourself.

Seriously, if you weren't so intellectually dishonest, I'd cut you some slack here. But the truth is that you're intentionally unpleasant and your smugness is ironic given your evident intellectual limitations.

Enjoy your world of denial. I'm sure you'll be safe inside your bubble.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Why? No one but you gives a damn about it, and if I produce the evidence, you'll just play your usual game of denial.


Um, you brought it up, simpleton.

Obviously you care.

But of course you can't produce the evidence.

Intellectual coward.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Seriously, if you weren't so intellectually dishonest,


You're the one asserting I made statements I did not make.

Project much?

Idiot.

garage mahal said...

In silly wingnut world filthy toxic tar sands oil piped and leaked across America to be sold to everyone but America helps America.

How?

Because it's...it's....hey your stoopid!

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
In silly wingnut world filthy toxic tar sands oil piped and leaked across America to be sold to everyone but America helps America.

How?


Hysterical.

Note that the imbecile has not yet looked up the word commodity.

Tragic.

EMD said...

Funny, I posted information about Halliburton and its competitors and now, no one wants to talk about Halliburton or no-bid contracts.

damikesc said...

So what, a couple thousand jobs and a vague promise to reduce the regulatory burden.

If you want more offshore drilling the oil and drilling companies should pay more attention to safety.


Because BP bought Obama and was ignored by the government does not mean that they don't pay attention to safety.

Also, if companies weren't required to go so far away to drill, these issues would be less problematic.

Sure. Doesn't do us much good if they are in Europe, Latin America, or China, does it?

Yeah, because oil isn't a global commodity that having more of it would cause prices to lower at all. Naturally.

buwaya said...

Oil shipped across the US to be refined for export is good because -

- It employs Americans in building, maintaining and operating pipelines.
- It employs Americans in operating and maintaining refineries and etc.
- It generates profits and interest for American investors in debt and equity related to said pipelines, refineries and other infrastructure.
- It employs Americans and rewards American investors in all the related goods and services purchased by all the employed Americans and American investors.

I am surprised that any of this needs to be pointed out.

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
In silly wingnut world filthy toxic tar sands oil piped and leaked across America to be sold to everyone but America helps America.

How?

Because it's...it's....hey your stoopid!



You have no idea what you're talking about.
As usual.
Fool.

Dante said...

Romney embraced the system that allowed Newt Gingrich to get pulled down on Bullshit ethics charges. That's the biased press. Romney used it as a tool.

I say he deserves the four pinnochios, and anything else the press dishes out against him.

Thanks, Andy, for exposing the bullshit ad against Obama. I despise Obama and everything he stands for. Until I saw the Romney attack machine in action, I didn't think anything could persuade me that anything goes against Obama. But now I know there is something. Romney.

A man asking all the good people of this country to support his deceitful ways, for the same crap, that anything goes to get my way. That's a devil's deal, one good people should not have to make. One that will change the character of the good people of this country. That's more important than this next election.

Robin said...

I see George Mahal is back to utterly falsehoods again.

And displaying utter ignorance of basic economics.

In other words, back to his normal behavior.

The Halliburton nonsense has been completely debunked multiple times, but that just means Mahal waits a week or two before uttering it again.

Eric said...

Funny, I posted information about Halliburton and its competitors and now, no one wants to talk about Halliburton or no-bid contracts.

There you go with your... facts and stuff. At this rate Garage will hide in a cave somewhere for a few weeks like he did during the recall election.

Steve Koch said...

EMD,

I spent most of my career with Schlumberger (SLB), Halliburton's top competitor. Halliburton was/is a worthy competitor. Cheney did an amazing job at Halliburton when he became their top guy, at SLB we were glad to see him leave to become VP.

The engineering capabilities of SLB are enormous but we did not compete with Halliburton in their war support activities. It was extremely dangerous work and we wanted no part of it. Halliburton deserved congrats for stepping into the void. Those guys were heroes and the dem/lefty response was/is, as usual, execrable and shameful.

Steve Koch said...

The pipeline from Canada to Texas is a no brainer. We get to buy the oil from a friend at NAFTA cut rate prices and resell at world prices, making a lot of money in the process. Or, we can keep as much of the oil for ourselves as we want. Win win.

Steve Koch said...

Re: creating jobs, the key is for the government to make it as easy as possible for the actual job producers (which are mostly small businesses) to do their job.

Government makes it tough on the job producers by introducing uncertainty, strong arming them for political purposes, overtaxing them, over regulating them, forcing them to pay for unemployment, social security, insurance, etc etc.

We have to start over and cut out everything that is getting in the way of job production. It is sad and pathetic that dems/lefties so poorly understand how our economy works and what a burden our government is to our job producers.

Fen said...

EMD: Funny, I posted information about Halliburton and its competitors and now, no one wants to talk about Halliburton or no-bid contracts.

You have to condense your point into a bumper sticker slogan for the Libtards to understand it.

Fen said...

Oh, who's the new Jake Diamond sock puppet? Shiloh? Ritmo?

Saint Croix said...

Cronyism Built That

An early and outspoken advocate for federal investment in “green” technology, Doerr was named to the president’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board in 2009, where he helped craft the $787 billion stimulus package. Of the 27 companies list in KPCB’s “green-tech” portfolio, 16 received some form of taxpayer support.

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
Wonder why TransCanada would want to spend so much to build a long ass pipeline all the way to the gulf? Why not send it to Midwest refineries?

Hey, wait a minute. The Gulf is in the Gulf! Open seas.

You don't think.....?

Nahhh


For one of the group who loves to claim that they are all up into the science and shit and conservatives ain't, you're dumber than a bag hammers.

Largo said...

"Why? No one but you gives a damn about it, and if I produce the evidence, you'll just play your usual game of denial."

Actually Jake, I give a damn about it, because Jay occasionally says thing that seem plausible to me. Evidence of your claim would make it easier to take him with a larger grain of salt.

Google is my friend, but I have failed to locate the comment you mentioned. Can you help me out?

Appreciatively,
Largo

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
Wonder why TransCanada would want to spend so much to build a long ass pipeline all the way to the gulf? Why not send it to Midwest refineries?

Hey, wait a minute. The Gulf is in the Gulf! Open seas.

You don't think.....?

Nahhh!

I'm pretty sure you're incapable of learning anything.

All crude oil is different. From 'light sweet'-very few impurities. Easy to refine. To 'heavy sour' lots of impurities, like sulfer and waxes and water.Refineries are just huge distilleries. The products of this distillation process are called 'fractions'. The lightest being aromatics and stuff like naptha. The heaviest being tar.the most profitable fractions are gasoline,A1 jet fuel and diesel oil in that order.Oil refineries are enormously expensive to build and operate.
Refineries are designed around what type of crude they will handle. The refineries that can handle the most varied types of crude happen to be in the Gulf of Mexico.
Athabascan tar sands are no more toxic than any other heavy sour crude except with the addition of sand.
Pipelines, like refineries, are built around the types of crude they will be carrying.

This is more for everyone else on this thread to whom the capacity to reason isn't like some form of magic.

Jay said...

Fen said...

Oh, who's the new Jake Diamond sock puppet? Shiloh? Ritmo?


It is the same one who was posting a photo of Romney in the avi a while back.

Can't remember the name.

Shilo can barely put together 2 sentences and Ritmo can't stop from writing 20...

Jay said...

It is funny to watch garage not understand that crude oil is a global commodity.

I guess to him all countries should produce their own food & fuel.

You know, very "progressive" thinking...

tim in vermont said...

I asked Dad for the money, but he said "no," but after Mom kicked him out, she said yes so Dad gave me the money because that is who I asked first!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

One day WAPO is going to miss the credibility they have squandered. Maybe they should just get over it and bill the Democrats for their services.

Rusty said...

Jay said...
It is funny to watch garage not understand that crude oil is a global commodity.

Actually, Jay, It's kind of sad. I was apparently giving him credit for more intelligence than he possessed.