June 18, 2012

"Happy father's day - or as they call it in my family, happy brother-in-law's day."

A tweet, from Woody Allen's son Ronan Farrow.
The message was then retweeted by Allen's ex-wife Mia Farrow, who added the word: 'Boom'
Fathers should not marry their daughters. That's clear. But should moms retweet?

57 comments:

Beldar said...

The premise must be a different message, Prof. Althouse -- that fathers should treat their adopted daughters as if they were biological daughters.

Kelly said...

Good for her for retweeting. It wasn't a private message. And it was funny!

dbp said...

Was Soon-Yee's last name Allen, prior to getting married? No. Then she wasn't his daughter.

Kelly said...

Soon-Yi isn't Woody Allen's adopted daughter. She is Mia Farrow and Andre Previn's adopted daughter. Allen was her step-father but never adopted her.

But it's still creepy.

Kelly said...

Actually, come to think of it, he was never her step-father either. He and Farrow were never married.

Shanna said...

That's funny!

As for whether Farrow should be retweeting, I imagine any familial feelings between herself and her adopted daughter must be rather strained at this point. I'm not sure this could hurt it.

edutcher said...

Finding the proper greeting cards must be a problem, too.

Kevin said...

Regarding the retweeting, I would be in favor of a Mia Farrow rule. Anyone who has had both Frank Sinatra's and Woody Allen's penis inside of him or her gets to pretty much do whatever they want.

Because that person's boundaries are already shown to be so flexible that no rule of mortal man can further constrain them.

DADvocate said...

The funny man got out funnied. Nice to see Roman has a sense of humor. Go, Mia!

tim maguire said...

This retweet is one of those situations where, yes, there should be a rule against such a retweet, but there is an earned exception for mothers whose child could make the tweet in the first place.

So the exception swallows the rule.

As for Allen and Soon Yi, technically, this is simply a May-November marriage. He is not her father or even step-father.

But he was a father figure, raising her from a very young age, so from an emotional standpoint, from an "ick!" standpoint, he is her father.

I still laugh when I think about the Roman Polanski petition. When it was first released, the names were in alphabetical order. So, appropriately, Woody Allen's name was first.

MadisonMan said...

Who really wants to see inside a family's dysfunctionality?

David said...

Rowan should have kept his immature tweet on the sidelines, and Mia should have kept quiet too. Woody's a self absorbed pig, but we already knew that. They have been promoting Rowan as a sensitive high level intellectual guy for most of his highly privileged life. Childishness is not part of the image, Rowan.

Amartel said...

Meh. Aren't Woody Allen and Soon-Yi still married? It's been a while now and I don't know that it's all that creepy if the relationship has stood the test of time (and ageing). Maybe the lesson here is to keep family business off twitter altogether. Less famous family members shouldn't try to raise their Q by instigating cleverness coups.

Palladian said...

Mia and her tiresomely programmed United Nations-drone son have always been vindictive, sanctimonious gasbags.

TMink said...

Mia is as big a mess as he. When she was killing him in the press for ditching her for their adopted daughter, she still expected to star in his movies.

Can't make that up, nobody would believe you!

Trey

Ann Althouse said...

"The premise must be a different message, Prof. Althouse -- that fathers should treat their adopted daughters as if they were biological daughters."

I've stated the general principle. You've purported to correct me to the specific, but you've missed the specific. Allen never adopted Soon Yi.

Ann Althouse said...

"Allen was her step-father but never adopted her."

That's not true either.

Allen never married Farrow.

Ann Althouse said...

"Allen was her step-father but never adopted her."

That's not true either.

Allen never married Farrow.

Ann Althouse said...

When Ronan and Mia Farrow take public aim at Woody Allen and get all righteous, they'd better be honest. All that righteousness is a heavy burden. If that's your pose, you'd better stand upright!

Henry said...

Soon-Yi Previn is 41 years old. She and Woody have been married 15 years.

Time flies.

jimbino said...

Woody Allen should be celebrated for exerting the right of single men, who as singles are denied 1000+ benefits of marriage, to marry anyone they damn well please, within the law, of course. Including sisters, mothers and kids of your lovers.

The law in many places even allows marrying your distant blood relatives, including first cousins, as in the case of Einstein and lots of Austrian musicians.

X said...

when the pregnant man gets pregnant, we don't have to be precise.

when 2 men in the UK father a child, we don't have to be precise.

when Woody Allen bangs Soon Yi, jokes get diagrammed.

Rusty said...

How very.........................Appalachian.

rick said...

I wonder if the Woody has thought of ditching his lovely bride and proposing to Ronan. Woody is about due for a change. In New York or California, of course.

X said...

When Ronan and Mia Farrow take public aim at Woody Allen and get all righteous, they'd better be honest. All that righteousness is a heavy burden. If that's your pose, you'd better stand upright!


1. he never mentioned Woody Allen's name. your mind made the connection.
2. Woody Allen is his father and his brother-in-law.

rcocean said...

Never understood the outrage at Woody over this. Farrow and he weren't married. Soon-yi was adopted at a very old age (10 I think) and was kid number 16.

Mia Farrow is your typical liberal freak. No religion or morality but gets on her high horse when it hurts her.

Fred Drinkwater said...

I'm sure Dory Previn is impressed with Mia Farrow's sense of humor.

rcocean said...

Soon-yi didn't like Mia, and felt no compunction about stealing her 'boyfriend'.

rcocean said...

Smartest thing Sinatra did was divorcing her ass.

Balfegor said...

But he was a father figure, raising her from a very young age, so from an emotional standpoint, from an "ick!" standpoint, he is her father.

I . . . guess so? Reminds me a little of Murasaki in the Tale of Genji. Genji meets her when she's 10 or so, then sequesters her in his palace where he raises her to be his ideal woman. Which I guess is a little squicky.

Christopher in MA said...

Smartest thing Sinatra did was divorcing her ass.

He must have had a little too much Jack when he fell for her. I have never found the gamine look attractive, except for Audrey Hepburn, and Mia is just not (nor was) a very pretty woman, physically or mentally.

Palladian, as usual, nailed it.

MayBee said...

My Daughter with Andre.

rcocean said...

I have never found the gamine look attractive...

Leading Ava Gardner to remark "I always knew Frank would end up in bed with a boy."

bagoh20 said...

Woody Allen is what "50 Shades of Grey" looks like in real life. Somehow it's not so sexy is it?

Blue@9 said...

Never understood the outrage at Woody over this.

If you break it down to the "Is it incest or even close to incest?" question, sure, Woody did nothing wrong.

But from a social standpoint, it's creepy that he lived with her mom (as his lover), helped raise her, and then later left the mom so he could bang her. Wonder what Mother's Day is like in that family.

I will say that love is love and it seems like they fell in love... but still, how about a low-drama alternative?

Shanna said...

Genji meets her when she's 10 or so, then sequesters her in his palace where he raises her to be his ideal woman. Which I guess is a little squicky.

A lot squicky to me. (And pretty much what happened with Celine's husband, although he didn't actually raise her thankfully. Still.)

rcocean said...

Blue@9; of course my understanding of the Woody-Farrow relationship is limited at best but..

I don't think he and Farrow "lived together" nor do I think he did much to raise any of her kids. And Farrow had so many kids, its not like she much of a relationship with Soon-yi either.

But I agree its pathetic that Woody - with all his fame and money - couldn't do any better than the adopted daughter of his current girlfriend.

ndspinelli said...

I see the kid has abandoned the first name given to him by his narcissistic, pervert, old man. I read the bio of Satchel Paige and while Satch liked to chase poontang I don't think he would abide Woody marrying his daughter.

Balfegor said...

Re: rcocean:

But I agree its pathetic that Woody - with all his fame and money - couldn't do any better than the adopted daughter of his current girlfriend.

I'm embarassed that I'm coming out here as the defender of someone like Woody Allen, but isn't the whole point of this modern "romantic" marriage business that you aren't trying to do "better" -- that you marry the person you love?

Certainly by any objective measure she would have been an unsuitable bride -- I don't think anyone anywhere would claim that the adoptive daughter of your girlfriend is somoene you should be considering as a marriage candidate. But I thought Americans were all about that "heart has reasons reason cannot know" stuff. What next? Will we learn rich men shouldn't marry their cooks or their maids? That it would be a dreadful mesalliance for the son of a rich man to fall in love with an actress or a chorusgirl? Egads, my monocle!

tim maguire said...

I don't spend a lot of time shaking my fist at the horrible way Woody wronged Mia, that just happens to be the current topic.

But I have to say, if "Reminds me a little of Murasaki in the Tale of Genji. Genji meets her when she's 10 or so, then sequesters her in his palace where he raises her to be his ideal woman" is the best you can do in Allen's defense, then maybe you should rethink your choice of who's worthy of your defenses.

jimbino said...

Balfegor,

Time for you to enter the 21st century:

Marriage is not about love, sex, companionship, housecleaning, parenting or romantic walks in the park or on the beach. You can definitely have any and all of those things without marriage.

What marriage gains you is: big money, the green card, and expensive divorces.

No man in his right mind would have sex if not fixed or protected with any woman; marrying her if not for green card or big money has to be the sign of an idiot.

Eric said...

But from a social standpoint, it's creepy that he lived with her mom (as his lover), helped raise her, and then later left the mom so he could bang her.

Allen and Farrow didn't live together, and he didn't help raise the children. Soon-Yi has always considered Andre Previn her father and didn't even meet Woody Allen until she was ten.

I just don't get why people find this so creepy. Yeah, he's quite a bit older than she is. He's also the sort of rich and famous guy that younger women find suitable for marriage.

Ronan should keep his opinions to himself.

Pastafarian said...

The other night I was watching Midnight in Paris; it was a cute little comedy. Throughout the movie, I noticed that particular attention seemed to be paid to women's asses -- the camera would dwell just a little too long whenever a woman in tight jeans was in the shot.

Not that I minded, but it was noticeable, and odd. At one point, Rachel McAdams spent about 2 minutes loading luggage into the back of a car, and the camera just sat there for no good reason studying her ass.

And then in the credits, I saw "Directed by Woody Allen", and I understood why. He's a dirty old man, and no one is going to tell him "you know, there's not really a good reason to show this actress struggling with these bags for these extra 45 seconds or so."

Balfegor said...

Re: jimbino:

Balfegor,

Time for you to enter the 21st century


My dear fellow, I have not even entered the 20th. Every time there is a discussion of marriage here, I try to speak up for the pre-romantic conception of marriage -- what in most of the non-Western world seems to have been the dominant view of marriage up until the mid-20th century or so, and is still a very a large (if no longer dominant) part of the cultural understanding of marriage.

Blue@9 said...

I just don't get why people find this so creepy.

Hard to explain. It's like love or porn -- I know it when I see it.

Amartel said...

It was salacious (the photos! gasp! The age difference! gross!) when it happened but now it's a 15 year marriage. So not so much anymore. Mia Farrow sounds like a major pain in the ass and I'm thinking she had as much to do pushing her daugher out of the house as Woody did with luring her over to his. Lastly, News Bulletin: Woody Allen, Entertainment Industry, Obsessed With Sex, Films Butts A Lot.

Dredging up this old story smells like any excuse for two minutes of sanctimony. Must be a slow day on the gossip blogs.

Rusty said...

rcocean said...
Soon-yi didn't like Mia, and felt no compunction about stealing her 'boyfriend'.



MMmmm. Not quite. Woody has wood for an underage little girl. he gets next to the girls mother until the girl comes of age.

Eric said...

MMmmm. Not quite. Woody has wood for an underage little girl. he gets next to the girls mother until the girl comes of age.

Do you have any reason to believe this is true, or are you just talking out your ass?

lightcat said...

Ronan and Soon-yi are siblings. Brother and sister. Sister banged their mom's boyfriend. That's icky. Period. If you're living your life based on what exactly is "technically" right/wrong ethical/unethical, you're living to a very low standard. Did Woody ever consider what his children would think about him leaving their mother for their sister? Apparently not. He had a thing for Soon-yi, forget what the consequences are to the rest of his family.

And the affair? He was looooove? Please. Be a grown up and show some impulse control. End the current relationship, then start the new one. That's not even a moral gray area.

Eric said...

Ronan and Soon-yi are siblings. Brother and sister. Sister banged their mom's boyfriend. That's icky.

There's no biological relationship between the two. I still don't see why anyone would say "That's icky."

Woody ever consider what his children would think about him leaving their mother for their sister? Apparently not. He had a thing for Soon-yi, forget what the consequences are to the rest of his family.

"Children"? The plural is not appropriate here. He had only one child with Farrow, who is not related to Soon-Yi by blood and was five when her relationship to his father became public.

And yeah, Allen probably thought about it. How much are you required to sacrifice to avoid hurting the feelings of your child? Ronan doesn't seem to have suffered overly much in life.

lightcat said...

The issue isn't whether there is a blood connection between Ronan and Soon-yi. It's the relationship - they are siblings. Adopted or biological, they share a mother.

"The plural is not appropriate here" The plural is appropriate - Farrow and Allen have 3 children together - 2 adopted, one biological. Children.

"Ronan doesn't seem to have suffered overly much in life." Seriously? Based on what knowledge?

I come back to what I said before - if you're making life decisions based on technicalities, you're living to a low standard.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

There is Leviticus 20:14: If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you.

Eric said...

"The plural is not appropriate here" The plural is appropriate - Farrow and Allen have 3 children together - 2 adopted, one biological. Children.

Ah, I didn't catch that. The wiki page only lists Ronan and the two he adopted with Soon-Yi. You have to read through the text on the Farrow section to find the other two.

I suppose I would agree with you if Allen and Farrow lived together. But I just don't consider this kind of second order relationship that important. The prejudice against marriage within a family comes from a sensible concern relating to genetics. And of course having that kind of relationship with a child you've adopted is a breach of trust (and law, I'm guessing).

But neither case holds true here. I just don't see the adoptive relationship between the children as that critical.

jeff said...

"There's no biological relationship between the two. I still don't see why anyone would say "That's icky.""

Because as soon as she was of legal age she started sleeping with the much older exboyfriend of her mother. That would be icky. If these were people no one ever heard of who lived in West Virgina, there wouldnt be any debate. However, icky doesnt equal illegal. And there was nothing illegal about this, so who cares? It's a shame that the kid is working out his issues via public tweeting. And the commenter who said Allen wasn't mentioned in the tweet and it was Althouse making the connection???? Really? That's pathetic.

The Crack Emcee said...

The fact it's left to Woody's SON to make this point says everything that needs to be said about ethics in America today. There is none:

The post-Boomer world is an exceedingly vile and cowardly place.

Rusty said...

Eric said...
MMmmm. Not quite. Woody has wood for an underage little girl. he gets next to the girls mother until the girl comes of age.

Do you have any reason to believe this is true, or are you just talking out your ass?


Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw given the circumstances.

"And yeah, Allen probably thought about it."
Talk about out of your ass. You have no idea what he thought. You can only base conclusions on what he did.

X said...

It's a shame that the kid is working out his issues via public tweeting. And the commenter who said Allen wasn't mentioned in the tweet and it was Althouse making the connection???? Really? That's pathetic.

althouse was saying ronan and farrow needed to be honest. I was pointing out the tweet was 100% factual. ronan's father is his brother-in-law. it was a funny put down and of all people, woody allen should be able to take a sexually uncomfortable joke.