May 3, 2012

"Russia says it is prepared to use 'destructive force pre-emptively'..."

"... if the US goes ahead with controversial plans for a missile defence system based in Central Europe."

74 comments:

Scott M said...

Full cold circle. Our current sovereign bower is not the POTUS I would choose to face down the Ruskies.

dmoelling said...

With both the Russians and Chinese it is essential to be correct, consistent and firm. Concessions to either gain no favor, and the underlying ex-Communist worldview is one of cutthroat diplomacy with a huge chip on their shoulders.

Calling their bluff does not bring risk, but letting them feel there is a point of weakness they can exploit does. (See Korean War).

President Obama doesn't understand Putin or China. At least with Muslim countries he thinks he understands them which gives him at least some steadiness. Lots and lots of risk here.

ndspinelli said...

Russians and Chinese thumbing their noses @ the US like they did w/ Carter and tried in Cuba w/ JFK. This Chen deal could blow up.

Franklin said...

I'm super glad we've got Obama at the helm.

Lyle said...

Haha... Russia is a joke. This is akin to China saying it'll invade Taiwan if we were to recognize Taiwanese independence. Both are bluffs, Russia's is more ridiculous, but still diplomatic balderdash.

phx said...
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Curious George said...

Dear Russia: Uh, you know when Obama said he had "more flexibility" regarding these missiles "after his election?" Well, we heard it too. So it's too late for this faux saber rattling.

Obama promises concessions after the elections. The Russians are supposed to come out and act all tough so Obama can back them down and appear the man that only his wife is.

I guess the Russians didn't get the "Plan B" memo.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

It's all bluff. The Russians know Obama will be more flexible after the election.

edutcher said...

OK, Barry, time for a truly gutsy call.

PS phx can't wait to have the death panel rule on his cancer treatment, too.

leslyn said...
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Original Mike said...

Surely, Medvedev delivered Obama's message to Putin.

I guess Vlad doesn't think to highly of Obama's chances in November.

bagoh20 said...

Those Russians are clearly racist, and as soon as the media gets that message out there, those bastards will be sorry.

bagoh20 said...

Don't mess with us Putin, or we will unleash the mother of all viral videos.

MadisonMan said...

Here's an idea. Let Europe worry about defending Europe.

Just throwing it out there. The real problems in the near future is expansion into the Arctic. Europe is so 1950.

bagoh20 said...

Obama needs to be smarter about which world leaders he bends over for. Some act like they don't even know you the next day.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Golly! Just think how bad things would be if Obama had used dumb diplomacy, instead of the smart kind!

MayBee said...

It seems like just last week the geniuses in the Obama administration were castigating Mitt for acting like Russia was a threat any more.

tim maguire said...

phx, I think Obama's done a decent job against non-state actors (shooting pirates, drone-bombing terrorists, etc.), but against state actors he seems to have his priorities backwards.

Appeasing our enemies while betraying our friends.

Calypso Facto said...

"Russia says it is prepared to use 'destructive force pre-emptively'..."

Giving a whole new meaning to RESET.

edutcher said...

bagoh20 said...

Obama needs to be smarter about which world leaders he bends over for. Some act like they don't even know you the next day.

That's the problem with all those alpha male world leaders. Go out to a summit with them, bend over a mic to whisper sweet nothings the whole world hears, and they never call back.

Sigivald said...

I've heard lots of bluster from Russia about such things over the years.

But never a coherent explanation of what part of missile defense for Poland constitutes a "threat" to Russia, let alone one that would justify (to the extent they pretend to need justification) such pre-emptive destructive force.

None of the US missile-defense systems are very good at offense - and frankly if they were worried about that, well, we still have a lot of ICBMs.

Thus I can only really read it as "we want to threaten Poland (and the Ukraine, etc.) and you're going to make that hard, so we're all mad".

Which doesn't build sympathy for the Kremlin.

phx said...
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gerry said...

Sweet, sweet M.A.D.

I've missed it.

Duck and cover, rads and burns!

Happy times are here again!

garage mahal said...

Zzzzzz. BORING.

What does this have to with JULIA??

I cannot get her off my mind!

EDH said...

Maybe Putin wants Obama to win, and is throwing Obama a softball to help him look strong before the election?

Meanwhile, I'm sure Putin can "wait until after November" to get what he wants.

Original Mike said...

"Thus I can only really read it as "we want to threaten Poland (and the Ukraine, etc.) and you're going to make that hard, so we're all mad".

I'm with you. I see no other reason for their position.

prairie wind said...

The real problems in the near future is expansion into the Arctic.

I know. I'm so excited about the new Arctic beaches global warming has brought us.

Clyde said...

Where did Hillary put that Reset Button?

bagoh20 said...

"I see no other reason for their position."

I doubt this is devoid of careful planning. Putin does not have to act tough. Nobody on Earth questions his testicular gravitas.

damikesc said...

This Chen deal could blow up.

Could? It hasn't already?

I'll be amazed if we take him. I'll be more amazed if he isn't dead within a year.

Here's an idea. Let Europe worry about defending Europe.

...honestly, not the worst idea out there. We have bankrolled Europe's descent into perpetual adolescence by defending them.

Let them shoulder their own burden more.

I like how he's managing the Arab Spring nations

...it's just like when Carter had the Shah overthrown. Man, that worked out GREAT!

and his approach to Iran seems very sensible thus far to me.

Let democratic protestors die without a peep uttered?

Ditto North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba

Unless he CAUSED Chavez' cancer and Kim Jong Il's death --- his "diplomacy" has been a rather embarrassing dud.

Jehu said...

What missile defenses of the sort the Russians think we have deployed do is this:

They create the worry that the US might decide to execute a first strike while using the missile defense to reduce the damage from the Russian second strike to 'acceptable levels'. Such missile defenses aren't really all that great outside a first strike scenario, because the number of missiles and other targets can easily overwhelm the system. But they boost the first strike threat and the number of Russian missiles and other nukes is much much smaller than back in the 1980s.
That's why they're nervous. Have we totally forgotten the Cold War?

caseym54 said...

This is what you get for begging for understanding rather than projecting resolve. What a patzer we have as President.

damikesc said...

Yup, Romney was nuts when he said Russia was a major enemy of ours. Arguably the biggest one we have.

David said...

Quick. Dive under the desk and curl up in a ball while Obama considers pressing the reset button.

More seriously, we will see in a day or two what O is made of. Or will he just ignore it?

traditionalguy said...

The Russian's War on Women sounds like a chess game.

Their real goal is to unnerve the Poland, Romanian, and Georgian allies. They play off countries as a chess game. How is Syria doing today?

Control over the oil and mineral wealth of Russia is all they want these days. World Revolution is so very boring to former Communists turned billionaires.

dbp said...

"Gen Makarov also said that if the European shield was built, Russia would respond by putting more powerful warheads on its own ballistic missiles."

The way to defeat a defensive shield is with more warheads, not larger ones.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger Curious George said...

Dear Russia: Uh, you know when Obama said he had "more flexibility" regarding these missiles "after his election?" Well, we heard it too. So it's too late for this faux saber rattling.

Obama promises concessions after the elections. The Russians are supposed to come out and act all tough so Obama can back them down and appear the man that only his wife is.

I guess the Russians didn't get the "Plan B" memo.

5/3/12 2:19 PM
_________________________________

Yes, Barry gets to have his JFK moment for election purposes and gets 'flexible' after November.

Chip Ahoy said...

My favorite part is where Obama goes, "You smell like vodka and sausages, and you dress like Goodwill is your haberdasher. Now shut up and go away or I shall mock you a sssecond time."

AJ Lynch said...

Maybee said:

"It seems like just last week the geniuses in the Obama administration were castigating Mitt for acting like Russia was a threat any more."

Good catch - let's see if the MSM geniuses recall that too. But it's doubtful since they were laughing at Romney along with the Obama lovers.

Michael K said...

" I guess I just disagree. I like how he's managing the Arab Spring nations, and his approach to Iran seems very sensible thus far to me. Ditto North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba."

Very sensible phx, very sensible. The French in 1940 were just as sensible.

TMink said...

They told me if I voted for John McCain we would go back to the cold war days with Russia. And they were right!

Trey

Pettifogger said...

Missle defense for Poland is a threat to Russia only in the sense that it might impair the effectiveness of a Russian missle strike on Poland. Why isn't anybody asking Russia why it would want to attack Poland? What are these people planning?

Walt said...

Oh, no! It sounds like we might be confronted with some kind of an evil empire, or something. Better get ready to teach schoolchildren to cover their ears and get under their desks. Either that, or maybe we can find some cool guy who would be willing to implement some sort of smart diplomacy.

phx said...
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CWJ said...

I have a Polish son, a Magyar daughter and son , and a little farther afield an Albanian daughter. So let's just say that I have some dogs in this fight.

The Russians are playing chess, not whack-a-mole. The audience is Eastern Europe - not us. And between Russian incursions into Georgia, their sabre rattling, and the west's (including especially us) irresolute response, the message to mitteleuropa is TOE OUR LINE! You have no real protectors. They don't need tanks on the ground like in the old days.

Like I said chess!

Paco Wové said...

"But it's not much of an argument."

Neither is "Well, I think he's peachy keen!", phx.

Henry said...

Russia to the World: If you don't stop we'll collapse our economy again.

Paper tiger meet paper bear.

AST said...

Another great triumph of foreign policy for the Liberals.

Tim said...

leslyn said...

How are we going to pay for it? I say it's all moot, but gives the opportunity for much saber-rattling on both sides.

Yeah, I just LOVE how liberals get to be fiscal conservatives and all when it involves national security issues.

Cannibalizing the nation's future with unfunded and unsustainable entitlements program?

Yeah, let's make the kids and grandkids pay for our Medicare and subsidized health care through Obama's oh-so-mythical "health care reform."

Tim said...

Otherwise, our affirmative-action hire-in-chief won't say a peep; the podium may not hide the wet stain spreading from the crotch of his mom-jeans.

phx said...
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bagoh20 said...

"...maybe we can find some cool guy who would be willing to implement some sort of smart diplomacy."

It was nice back in the eighties, when our leader was the one with the balls.

Paco Wové said...

Touchy. I'm merely pointing out that your
'arguments' are a set of assertions that boil down to "well, I think he's doing fine!" And I'm sure you do. But there's not a whole lot there to convince the un-convinced.

Alex said...

Yes! The Cold War is back baby! Now the Democrats will be shown as being "soft on the Ruskies" again and that will lead to an easy Romney romp!

Penny said...

Could someone please wake up Rip Van Winkleputin and tell him it's 2012?

OldGrouchyCranky said...

OTOH: Has Obama scheduled the time, and location, of the surrender? Will there be a neutral third party to attest to the good faith acts of both parties?

Perhaps the location of the ceremony might be Tokyo Bay, if that's acceptable to Mr. Putin?

Don Jansen said...

The story is obviously false because Russia is a member of the United Nations and the United Nations Charter states "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations." Thanks heavens for the UN!

Kirk Parker said...

"Barry gets to have his JFK moment"

Wow; sure hope Michelle doesn't find out about this.

phx,

Just so I don't totally blow you off as nuts: what exactly is it about the President's "handling" of the Arab Spring that you like? Be as detailed as you like; who knows, you might point out something I've missed.

Carnifex said...

Elian Gonzalez is laughing at Chen for thinking a American Democrat would value thinks like life and liberty.

Really, I want to know, at what point should a democrat stop kissing the boots of tyranical thugs? Or is this why little Chrissy Matthews gets a tingle all up and down his leg when the Dear Leader speaks. It's just bred into them to be victims. A masochist just waiting for a sadist with the right whip to come along.

Now that I think of it, that might be why they worship at the alter of Zero. The cold haughty manner. The sneering at the little people. The eternal mask of a real person underneath the cartoonish grinning exterior. The indifference to other people.

Wait a second!

I think I might have stumbled on something...

President as "Leave It To Beaver" Archetype.

Romney, the Ward Cleavor father figure. Wise, yet remote. There to solve our problems deus ex machina style, but remote from the intimate lives of his "children".

Barry as the Eddie Haskell. Says all the right things in front of the adults, but exudes smarm and evil to those who can see.

Moochie as June Cleavor. Approachable by the kids but really running the household, and more importantly Ward Cleavor. Sweet and loving when things go her way, the punisher when they don't.

Rusty said...

Jehu said...
What missile defenses of the sort the Russians think we have deployed do is this:

They create the worry that the US might decide to execute a first strike while using the missile defense to reduce the damage from the Russian second strike to 'acceptable levels'. Such missile defenses aren't really all that great outside a first strike scenario, because the number of missiles and other targets can easily overwhelm the system. But they boost the first strike threat and the number of Russian missiles and other nukes is much much smaller than back in the 1980s.
That's why they're nervous. Have we totally forgotten the Cold War?


For this Poland must sacrifice her security? Appeasing Russia got her what? the last time. Confronting the bear can be costly, but worth it in the end. See Finnland and the real Solidarity movement.

Robert Cook said...

"...the underlying ex-Communist worldview is one of cutthroat diplomacy with a huge chip on their shoulders."

How is this any different than the American view?

phx said...
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Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
"...the underlying ex-Communist worldview is one of cutthroat diplomacy with a huge chip on their shoulders."

How is this any different than the American view


We have a tendency not to keep the countries we invade.

Robert Cook said...

"We have a tendency not to keep the countries we invade."

Why are we invading countries to begin with?

(Answer: because they don't do what we tell them to do.)

Also, given our multitude of military bases around the world, your claim that we do not "keep the countries we invade" is, to say the least, arguable.

Rusty said...

Why are we invading countries to begin with?

To make an enemy fight on his own turf instead of ours.
Von Clauswitz


Also, given our multitude of military bases around the world, your claim that we do not "keep the countries we invade" is, to say the least, arguable.

No it isn't. We pay rent on those bases and when asked to leave we do. See the Phillipines and Okinawa.

drunkdebunker said...

Does anyone think the Russians would have threatened an act of war if we had a real President?

For the person who thinks Obama has done a good overall job on foreign affairs, in what area, specifically, do you think he has done so? He is a joke to our real enemies, despite his fascination with blowing shit up by remote control. Please name one area, and try to make a case, where our national interests are better off because of Obama's policies.

drunkdebunker said...

Does anyone think the Russians would have threatened an act of war if we had a real President?

For the person who thinks Obama has done a good overall job on foreign affairs, in what area, specifically, do you think he has done so? He is a joke to our real enemies, despite his fascination with blowing shit up by remote control. Please name one area, and try to make a case, where our national interests are better off because of Obama's policies.

David said...

Does this mean that the Russians will be quiet and understanding if Israel attacks Iran?

phx said...
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Robert Cook said...

Why shouldn't the Russians feel free to threaten war? We do it freely, (as in our threats against Iran)...despite it being a war crime to do so. Why should we have the privilege and not others? Or, put another way, how can we expect others NOT to follow our example?

This is not even to get into our actual acts of aggressive wars against other nations.

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
Why shouldn't the Russians feel free to threaten war? We do it freely, (as in our threats against Iran)...despite it being a war crime to do so. Why should we have the privilege and not others? Or, put another way, how can we expect others NOT to follow our example?

This is not even to get into our actual acts of aggressive wars against other nations.


Bob? Can I get some examples? I don't think we're reading the same history books.
Or maybe I should ask, Are you a pacifist?
And then go from there.

Robert Cook said...

"'This is not even to get into our actual acts of aggressive wars against other nations.'


"Bob? Can I get some examples? I don't think we're reading the same history books."

You don't need to read any history books for examples...the daily papers will do.

Robert Cook said...

As for whether I'm a pacifist, I think any sane human being under most circumstances must be a pacifist.

However, in the case of defending against an attack on our country by armed forces that pose an existential threat, I would support that...a defensive war.

However, precious fews wars we've ever fought in our history have been defensive wars, but most often have been wars of acquisition.

Rusty said...

Thanks for playing Bob.