May 6, 2012

"French voters elected François Hollande as president on Sunday, giving the country a Socialist leader..."

"... who has pledged to shift the burden of hardship to the rich and resolve the protracted euro-zone sovereign-debt crisis by softening the current prescription of austerity."

99 comments:

ndspinelli said...

Krugman just got a boner, as did the entire upper westside of Manhattan

edutcher said...

Say good bye to La Madeleine.

And this time, we won't be able to save her.

Fen said...

Yay! The French are finally going to die out! Hit the frech wine and french pussy while you still can.

Original Mike said...

Right, because it's austerity that got them into their predicament.

The Crack Emcee said...

Wave Bye-Bye.

Bye-Bye.

edutcher,

Say good bye to La Madeleine.

And this time, we won't be able to save her.


Who wants to save her? I'm in the It's About Time And Good Riddance camp. They love delusion and have done it to themselves - again.

Let them finally deal with the consequences,...

Lyle said...

Good by Euro.

YoungHegelian said...

This will not end well. For Europe or for France.

For one thing, look at the final tally -- Hollande's 52% to Sarkozy's 48%. That isn't exactly a ringing mandate for change. That's more like Sarkozy & LePen's folks stayed home & Hollande's didn't.

Also, the "Merkozy" Franco-German alliance was what made the present crisis manageable at all. If Hollande refuses to play ball with Merkel, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

I know Sarkozy was a un petit emerdeur, but, a bad choice, mes freres.

Calypso Facto said...

Say good bye to La Madeleine.

Say good bye to the EU first. The Germans are already tired of bailing out the rest of the bloc's welfare excesses.

wv: eeductur. Like edutcher only different, ala my comment.

Seeing Red said...

NYC needs more weathly people.

Freeman Hunt said...

Yikes.

Bonne chance!

Alex said...

Yes, another failed state by 2014-2015. This time in northern Europe. Maybe France can decommission all their nuclear reactors as the left-wingers hate that too.

Krugman/Stiglitz just came HARD.

Alex said...

Hegelian - this is about the left-wing's final last stand against reality. Picture it's Germany late 1944. The Battle of the Bulge was successful for about a week and then it was the inevitable slide towards destruction. So we're at that stage now.

V-day is coming.

Marshal said...

The socialists winning is the best outcome. The French's best contribution to society is as an example, so we should hope the socialists enact everything they dream up. When it crashes Krugman et al will claim socialism failed only because they didn't go far enough / were forced to compromise with evil conservatives, but who reads him anyway?


"For one thing, look at the final tally -- Hollande's 52% to Sarkozy's 48%. That isn't exactly a ringing mandate for change."

This ignores media reality. All leftist victories are mandates. Besides, a mandate is in our interest. Sing it out, support the mandate. Make them own their choices.

YoungHegelian said...

@Alex,

There's a good chance what you say may be true.

The problem is that there are much worse things than Social Democrats (e.g. Stalinists, Fascists, & National Socialists) & Europe in a pinch has turned to all of them. And then millions of people got murdered. I see no reason why history can't repeat itself.

Hungary is already starting to look iffy.

EDH said...

Exile on Champs-Elysées.

Wealthy French eye move across the Channel

Wealthy French people are looking to London as a refuge from fresh taxes on high earners pledged by candidates in the country’s presidential elections.

The “soak the rich” rhetoric that has punctuated the presidential campaign has prompted a sharp rise in the numbers weighing a move across the Channel, according to London-based wealth managers, lawyers and property agents specialising in French clients.

Chef Mojo said...

Like Marshall said, make them own it. I hope the French go full retard with the Socialists. They've earned it.

I'm glad I experienced France back when it was worth experiencing.

Good times. Good times...

YoungHegelian said...

@EDH,

London has been for quite a few years now the 4th largest French city because of the number of French expatriates living there.

In Manhattan, one out of four residents with an advanced degree is from Europe.

Revenant said...

Yikes!

I feel sorry for the minority of French citizens who will have to suffer through what the majority has inflected on them today.

And for the children, who never got a say but who will have to live with the consequences of their elders' actions.

OldGrouchyCranky said...

Give the term "French Fries" a whole another meaning! Well, actually not. Just the same old meaning with a vengeance!

OTOH: Back before WWII got started, and before A. H. got fully entrenched in power, France was becoming very authoritarian perhaps much more so than Germany at the time, as was Poland too. Watching France might foretell how we'll turn out if Obama gets re-elected and maybe an indicator of how Europe will twist and turn over the next decade.

edutcher said...

Crack, a lot of people feel that way.

I was just making note of the fact that now they're going to wish they'd been nicer to us.

PS That's V-E Day.

jimspice said...

And when just about exactly ZERO changes, I'm sure all you guys will be quick to admit error.

Marshal said...

Jim,

You mean similar to when you returned to this website and admitted all your fearmongering about Walker's budget leading to massive layoffs and other crises was just campaign bullshit to sway the idiots?

I missed that. But standards are for others, right?

YoungHegelian said...

@Jimspice,

Do you consider a country leaving the Eurozone to be "nothing"?

Hollande's victory makes that a likelier possibility than it was on Saturday.

A country will leave the Euro-zone under the six years of Hollande?

I'd take that bet in a minute!

O2BNAZ said...

This actually good news...France, as is all of Europe is in its final days. Europe has offered the world no new culture or technology for over a hundred years. Socialism has killed individual motivation, entrepreneurial drive and all sense of creativity from an entire continent full of people. They can now huddle together, blame capitalism and starve themselves to death. They will never understand what happened, but we can watch and point them out to our children and say…see this is what you get when you ask government to take care of you…it will terrify an entire generation of young Americans.

The Crack Emcee said...

I've been admiring some old posts from my blog, and found one that's called:

And Don't Expect Any Help This Time Assholes

Man, I LOVE being right!

Fen,

Yay! The French are finally going to die out! Hit the frech wine and french pussy while you still can.

What are you talking about? Those are ALWAYS available. Hell, even the fucking Nazis got them.

All this will do is make French poon even more available, as the women either (try to) get out of the country or (try to) figure out a way to live in it - if "more available" is even conceivable, considering, the last time I was there, they were giving it away if you said you liked Michael Jackson.

Three cheers for the socialists, and their brilliant plan to tax-and-spend their way out of poverty:

Hooray! Hooray! Hooray!

The Crack Emcee said...

edutcher,

Crack, a lot of people feel that way.

I was just making note of the fact that now they're going to wish they'd been nicer to us.


Gotcha. And don't I know it,...

PatCA said...

You mean taxes in London are lower than in France? And lower in the US than in London.

Sacre bleu! I would leave too.

Cedarford said...

Probably good news for Obama. The changes to the marketplace have hit Europe too...skilled or semi-skilled workers are losing ground and the middle class is eroding as wealth concentrates in fewer and fewer people.

For those masses, socialism at least offers a way to avoid being a nation of 5% Masters over 95% serfs again.
The Freedom-loving, free-marketeers at the top have not crafted a suitable counter-vision that addresses the destruction of the middle class under globalism and the Top 1% sucking up 93% of newly created wealth in America, 45% in Europe.

The people in Lyons are as resistant as the people in Peoria seeing declining standards of living to Horatio Alger inducements. "Look, if you want to whine about your fine Frenchie world collapsing remember that instead of being a CAD machine foreman at a now-closed and moved to Turkey, factory, you could have chosen to be a financial derivatives speculator or the guy that launched Facebook. Your fault!"

To which the response is "Fine, the Socialists have my vote"

The middle class needs jobs, as Romney said..but in the last 20 years in the West, the newer private sector jobs pay less than the old jobs with less benefits. Jobs alone are not enough. Republicans and conservatives have to confront the fact that free trade, globalism, and corporate rewards systems have made those at the top richer and richer while the masses clearly see this happening. And have little faith that economic Darwinism, the globalist race to the lowest labor cost bidder, and a return to the Robber Baron Ero will make their lives better.

The Crack Emcee said...

jimspice,

And when just about exactly ZERO changes, I'm sure all you guys will be quick to admit error.

Hey, Guys, jimspice is predicting Obama's loss, too!

Oh Happy Day!

damikesc said...

Good plan. Why not go ahead and accelerate the death of Europe? Apparently, not having money is not an impediment to the Socialists who are convinced that the rich have a near infinite amount of money.

Michael said...

Forward.

The Crack Emcee said...

Cedarford,

"Republicans and conservatives have to confront" the fact that idiots like you have done nothing but criticize a program you've never tried, whether it's in regards to economics, or race, or anything else. That "resistant" quality you so admire in the people of Lyon is what's got them where they are, and, by not even trying the alternative - just as liberals, here, will not divert from their objectives - they've just signed their death warrant. Congratulations.

You make it sound like we should be scared. Do we sound scared? I've opened a bottle of champagne. Shit, you just reminded me - I need a big fucking Tony Soprano-style cigar for this one - I've been waiting forever for this day (look at the dates on the posts I linked to above.)

All we have to do is wait a little-bit-longer and, once the first crack in the facade shows, the whole thing will come tumbling down. I've lived there - they got nothing to hold it up. And then life can get somewhat back to normal. Fall, France, fall - fall now:

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead,...

Paul said...

So soon parasites will run France and all hard working French people will either go Galt or move outside France.

No one likes working to support everyone else. Used to be called slavery.

Astro said...

So it looks like the French are in for some bad luck. I.e., bad luck as defined by Heinlein.

Here's the URL for Heinlein's quote, via Instapundit: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/126046/

Mike said...

yeah, stick it to the rich. That will raise revenues and improve the economy of France. Oh yeah, and keep spending on more government programs. That always helps

crosspatch said...

How I think this will play out:

Hollande's wunderkind from MIT and UC Berkeley will come up with a "rescue plan" that basically looks around, see who has money, and Germany being one of the few left in the Eurozone with any fiscal responsibility, will propose that Germany's taxpayers shoulder an even larger burden of the fiscal irresponsibility of the PIIGS.

The Germans will refuse and may pull out of the Euro and the left wing rhetoric will then turn and attempt to blame everything on the Germans not wanting to bail out Greece et al because Socialists never take responsibility for their own fiscal idiocy and always attempt to pin the blame on someone else.

Germany represents the fruit that Socialists are always after: "Other people's money" and if the Germans refuse to fork it over, it will be the end of the Euro.

Sarkozy sacrificed a lot of potential French economic growth in order to shoulder a lot of the financial burden created by the PIIGS. Hollande will enact policies which will stifle the economy of France and demand Germans pay for it.

Then the anti-German rhetoric will crank up. France's economy will then start a tailspin when Hollande's "reforms" are felt and he will attempt to claim he "inherited" the problem.

Rabel said...

"giving the country a socialist leader who has pledged to shift the burden of hardship to the rich"

Fortunately we Americans are too smart to ever do anything like that.

David said...

"shift the burden of hardship to the rich . . . "

Well, that's rich.

The burden of hardship (whatever that means to this fatuous writer) is not going to shift to the rich, as long as they remain rich.

They will suffer more hardship, theoretically, if the socialists take their money and make them "not rich." Then everyone has hardship. No burden has shifted.

Actually, if the socialists really try to confiscate the wealth, the rich will simply leave. Everyone will be less rich.

This is, by the way, the first of a trend. Instead of pulling back on the huge fiscal deficits, the "leaders" will make more unsustainable promises, and then hold their breath, shut their eyes and mutter "non, non, non" until all the problems go away.

Greece, the UK, Spain, France will all go that way. It won't work, and eventually the crisis will hit and the suffering will be greater.

Cedarford said...

Dearest Crack -

Going with an Ayn Randian dream of opening a bottle of champagne and lighting a cigar while laughing at the stupid middle class proles below you may give you gratification.
It won't give Free Marketeers the votes.
Not until the matter of a declining middle class getting less pay and benefits for the jobs thet CAN find...while wealth concentrates Latin-American or Saudi-style at the top - is addressed.
Addressed by a plausible counter to the solutions offered by State fixes..which DID happen under Communism, national socialism, FDR's New Deal that taxed the rich more, and TDRs busting up the Robber Baron Cabal.

Meanwhile, continue your dream of pouring champagne dregs on the rabble and shouting at them that they do not love Freedom!!

David said...

France will not leave the Euro. It's much more likely that the Euro will leave France. It will then be called the Deutschmark.

Joe said...

Now is the time to relax immigration restrictions for university education and professional French citizens. Let's grab even more of their best and brightest.

wyo sis said...

To me there is one less thing to celebrate in the world today. But, don't let me rain on your parade.

damikesc said...

Addressed by a plausible counter to the solutions offered by State fixes..which DID happen under Communism, national socialism, FDR's New Deal that taxed the rich more, and TDRs busting up the Robber Baron Cabal.

Except they DIDN'T solve the problems. Their solutions made the problems worse.

It's time for free marketers to stop helping and simply allow the system to crash.

Steve Koch said...

Cedarford,

Perhaps you could summarize the changes you think need to be made to the USA economic system to make it more productive at creating middle class jobs.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Looks like someone's compulsive headline parroting has gotten so compulsive that she forgot to link an original article.

First turn on brain, then post blog.

Robin said...

Cedarford seems to want to pretend that its not going to be the middle class that shoulders the increasing burden of the socialist welfare state in the US. But that's who will do so as that's who the Democrats will actually "burden" the most with increasing taxes.

The failure of the Democrats to deal as adults with the unsustainable budget trajectory means just that.

The Crack Emcee said...

Cedarford,

Dearest Crack -

Going with an Ayn Randian dream of opening a bottle of champagne and lighting a cigar while laughing at the stupid middle class proles below you may give you gratification.

Dearest Cedarford,

Do you remember who you're talking to? Nobody's "below" me, financially-speaking or otherwise. I just stay focused on what is and what is not reality. I have also lived under French socialism and American democracy/capitalism, and know what works and (pay attention here) SOCIALISM. DOES. NOT. WORK.
I say an opportunity such as this, to not only watch that maxim in action but make the point clear on the world stage, is most definitely a reason to celebrate.

It won't give Free Marketeers the votes.

No, but France's example will - especially when coupled with the rest of Yurp's failure - ensuring those losers, here, won't even get a chance to be heard over the laughter directed at them.

Not until the matter of a declining middle class getting less pay and benefits for the jobs they CAN find...while wealth concentrates Latin-American or Saudi-style at the top - is addressed.

Man, you have such warped view of how money works. Repeat after me, Cedar:

Wealth is CREATED.

It's not some finite amount, in a pie tin, waiting for you to split it up. I'm working on a project, right now, to MAKE some money. Practically out of thin air. And anyone else can do so, too, if they've got the capitalist idea ingrained in their bones.

Unless they're you, that is, and are waiting for the Job Fairy to come along and save them. No wonder you have this mentality. It's exactly how the French think. Earth to Cedarford:

Get off your ass and DO SOMETHING, you loser!

Addressed by a plausible counter to the solutions offered by State fixes..which DID happen under Communism, national socialism, FDR's New Deal that taxed the rich more, and TDRs busting up the Robber Baron Cabal.

But won't be happening again. No, you're going to have to learn to work, Cedar. You've got a computer. Figure out what it's for, beyond writing on blogs, catching emails, and dissing the very system that created it. It might help, dude.



Meanwhile, continue your dream of pouring champagne dregs on the rabble and shouting at them that they do not love Freedom!!

No, that's your image OF me - which bears no resemblance to reality. I say you have freedom and you should embrace it, and do something with it, beyond pretending it doesn't exist and all your sorry ass is limited to is government handouts. You can take your own initiative - that's what capitalism is about. Not waiting for Obama to save you. Remember that woman screaming that Obama was going to take care of her mortgage, make her car payment and put gas in it? How'd that work out, C? I'll tell you:

I'd get busy trying to do something - for myself - if I were you,…

BuckIV said...

I expect a lot of people to go "Gault" pretty soon.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

If only the political left could end economic depressions as well as the political right can make them.

Freder Frederson said...

Also, the "Merkozy" Franco-German alliance was what made the present crisis manageable at all. If Hollande refuses to play ball with Merkel, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

Austerity is what made the situation worse. You can't grow your way out of a deficit while the economy is shrinking.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Oh joy. A Nazi and a barely employable rapper debating the finer points of achieving economic stability and opportunity. Happy Days at the Althouse blog.

Has this episode not played out before?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

It's kind of funny listening to Crack the Rapper assume that the problem faced by the nations of Europe is that after all this time, they haven't created enough wealth. I mean, hundreds to thousands of years of history, empire, royalty... You'd think they'd have created at least a little bit of wealth by now in which to dabble.

Thanks for the crack history lesson, Crack.

The Crack Emcee said...

Joe,

Now is the time to relax immigration restrictions for university education and professional French citizens. Let's grab even more of their best and brightest.

Oooooh, no - all we do now is point and laugh. We don't need any more socialists here, trying to tell us what to do.

This is exactly the kind of thing that insures America is for Americans again, and I don't see any reason on mucking up this moment by inviting anybody else over to take it from us or mess it up.

Fuck that shit. Let those that tortured us when we needed them squirm a bit. And if they want to come over, let it be on our terms, not some easy path carved out for them.

We are resurrecting the real world again. They rejected it - at our expense.

Make them all regret it.

edutcher said...

PS Good luck with the battle of the blog, Crack.

I stop by every day or so to see if it's back.

O Ritmo Segundo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Steve Koch said...

Robin said...
"Cedarford seems to want to pretend that its not going to be the middle class that shoulders the increasing burden of the socialist welfare state in the US. But that's who will do so as that's who the Democrats will actually "burden" the most with increasing taxes.

The failure of the Democrats to deal as adults with the unsustainable budget trajectory means just that."

Reducing the concentration of wealth at the top and the disappearance of middle class jobs does not necessarily imply increased benefits for the poor or a more lefty government. An absolutely essential requirement for democracy to thrive is an adult population that actually behaves like adults. Shrinking the size of the middle class is not good for a democracy.

Lefty governments (dems, here in the USA) want to increase dependency on government handouts, increasing the cost of government and tending to permit/encourage more adult age citizens to behave in a non adult, childish way.

yashu said...

This is sad and bodes bad ugly things for Europe down the line. Doubling-down on hardline socialist fiscal policy *and* a resurgence of fascistic (e.g. Le Penist) politics of resentment *and* a growing culturally unassimilated and angry immigrant population… I feel no Schadenfreude, but a chill of unease. Whenever Europe falls headlong abysmally-deep into complete denial of economic reality… bad things happen. And unfortunately we're usually irresistibly sucked into the vortex too.

Agree with crosspatch and David that we might see Germany dump the rest of Europe-- get it off its back, leave and slam the door. And then might see Europe scapegoating Germany. It will be interesting (trainwreck interesting) to watch Europe crack up.

Here's hoping, please god, that we don't re-elect Obama and that we avoid Europe's fate.

Only thing about this that makes me smile: from now on it'll be a lot harder for the civility police to object when people call Obama, his policies and his rhetoric "socialist."

Phil 3:14 said...

How did the French election results engender such a cock fight here at Althouse?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Like footsoldiers in an army of idiocy, none of the tin soldier reactionaries assembled here can offer a shred of evidence that "austerity" works.

We've had a real-life example over the last several years where European countries that tried the austerity game dropped deeper into recession, while an American government that, thankfully, didn't, has recovered in proportion to the meager measure of stimulus it provided.

It's really gotten this predictable: Demonstrate any real-life evidence of anything... of ANYTHING, and the reactionaries will proclaim the opposite.

They are the party of lies, Bizarro-World fiction, and just believing anything that the real world has just proved false.

The Crack Emcee said...

O Ritmo Segundo,

It's kind of funny listening to Crack the Rapper assume that the problem faced by the nations of Europe is that after all this time, they haven't created enough wealth. I mean, hundreds to thousands of years of history, empire, royalty... You'd think they'd have created at least a little bit of wealth by now in which to dabble.

Thanks for the crack history lesson, Crack.


You know what else is funny, Ritmo? I'll tell you:

Crack the Rapper has made more money than you in the past and Crack the Rapper will most assuredly do so again.

Crack the Rapper has also been acknowledged as smart, in a number of different areas, while you've never written or done a thing Crack the Rapper has admired in any way, shape, or form.

Also, Crack the Rapper has been all over this world, living in socialist countries as well as capitalist, and knows the difference in ways you probably have never had the experience (or intelligence) to grasp.

And finally, Crack the Rapper usually doesn't even speak to you because Crack the Rapper knows that that idiotic snark you throw out is all you've got to pass for an argument, so it would be a waste of time for Crack the Rapper to do so. Crack the Rapper tries to speak with people of consequence, and it's funny but you've rarely ever qualified.

And based on this exchange, that was surely probably too many.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

How did the French election results engender such a cock fight here at Althouse?

Elementary. Because it was a rational, real-world reaction to a real-life problem that their ilk made, and then made worse.

So now they must find a way to protect their false pride in the false beliefs that define them. It's not a pretty process.

So it goes.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Crack the Rapper has made more money...blah blah blah...and...blah blah blah...will most assuredly do so again.

So, like Donald Trump, Crack the Rapper doesn't consider his having been faced with extreme financial loss/bankruptcy/becoming destitute/eating out of dumpsters(?) an impediment to his big, blustery, ignorant ego?

It's good we have people in the world who live only within their own minds. They provide an example of what happens when people think that their own opinions are more important than knowledge just because they came out THEIR OWN mouths.

The Crack Emcee said...

edutcher,

PS Good luck with the battle of the blog, Crack.

I stop by every day or so to see if it's back.


Thanks, man. The wordpress site won't be back (They take my money and then wipe me out with even a note? No way am I going back to them,...) so I'm trying to decide if I'll accept an invitation to join Flying Tiger (they're working on my comic book) or restart my old blogger site, or what. I've spent a good part of this weekend working on a podcast, so that might be the first thing I do to get back in action. I'm still collecting material, so we'll see.

But thanks, man:

It means a lot to me,...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Note to Emcees everywhere: A microphone is not a truth-making instrument.

Although, it must really suck having a following infinitesimally smaller than Adam Yauch's, huh Crack?

Calypso Facto said...

Yeah, I should know better than to debate the fact-impervious, but here you go Ritmo:

The Canada of 1994 in many ways resembled the Greece of today. …Spending was to fall 8.8% over two years. Large cuts in transportation, industry, regional development, and scientific support were made. The size of the federal government was to decline from 16.2% of GDP in 1994 to 13.1% in 1996. Public-sector employment was to fall by 14%. The new discipline paid off quickly. Federal government spending as a share of the economy fell more rapidly than planned. Provincial government spending also decreased significantly from 25% of GDP to 20%.

The result?

The country’s economy grew at an average rate of 3.3% between 1997 and 2007, the highest average growth among the G-7 countries, including the US. Canada’s job-creation record was nothing short of stellar. From 1997 to 2007, Canada’s average employment growth was 2.1%, doubling that of the US and exceeding employment growth in all other G-7 countries.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yeah, Ed. Crack could really use the support. Although you are only one person, to Crack, it's as if you are an entire auditorium.

Because, that's the way helps himself feel so much more important, wise and influential than he really is.

rehajm said...

Austerity is what made the situation worse. You can't grow your way out of a deficit while the economy is shrinking.

Austerity comes in different flavors. Europe embarked on major reductions in government welfare without eliminating impediments to economic growth:

Is it irrelevant that Greece is 100th on the World Bank’s “ease of doing business” list, behind Yemen, 135th on “starting a business” and 155th on “protecting investors?” Is it irrelevant that professions from truck driving to pharmacies are still rigorously protected, that businesses can’t fire people, that (according to a Greek colleague) you can’t even get a driver’s license without paying a bribe? Does it not matter at all that, as the International Monetary Fund delicately put it in its latest report on Greece, the “structural reform program” aimed at “deeply ingrained structural rigidities in labor, product, and service markets” got nowhere?

Does it not matter that Greece has a high combination of individual, corporate, wealth and social taxes, higher still under "austerity?"


The lesson is not to engage in austerity, but to engage in the right kind, and not to let your nation decay to the point where you need it.

Cedarford said...

Steve Koch said...
Cedarford,

Perhaps you could summarize the changes you think need to be made to the USA economic system to make it more productive at creating middle class jobs.

===================
1. Tariffs that account for gloablism and the race to the lowest cost labor bidder - a system that destroys middle class jobs in the West yet presumes that domestic markets in the West will remain open to Asian imports is unsustainable over the long haul.

2. Adjustments to other trade into America that account for other problems the "tilt" the competition - unfair tax advantage from the VAT put on US goods, environmental destruction and pollution not allowed in US manufacture. Severe worker exploitation in laws that block organizing, health benefits, use of sweatshops.

3. Taxes that are fair so a hedge fund manager does not pay 13% while a top saleman pays 39%. Taxes should reflect leaving each Americn with the same percentage of disposable income per dollar made after necessities, and all state, local and Fed taxes are factored in.
And since the wealtiest have had a free ride for 30 years at a lower rate, they pay more for a period of time to "rebalance" so that 68% of American wealth is not in the hands of the top 1%.

4. The US government has been too cavilier about the permanent destruction of whole industries overseas...thinking that Next Big Thing will come along to replace textiles manufacture, computer hardware manufacture, cell phone factories, etc. IT HASN'T! Whole cities have been gutted by industries, some even encouraged by the US gov't, moving abroad with nothing taking their place.

There are many other remedies. We can't afford to take in non-working or low skilled 3rd worlders and give them free food, free school, free medical care. Not when the real unemployment numbers of black males 18-30, approaches or exceeds 50% in many US cities.
We can't afford a government bigger than we have.
We have to means test seniors - wealthy ones should not be getting free golf carts and SS checks.
The "Death Tax" may have to come back on big estates to stop the growing concentration of wealth in a small percentage of US families.
Outflow of capital, and billions in philanthropy dollars people making money here think needs to be sent overseas from the US may have to be regulated.

Revenant said...

It won't give Free Marketeers the votes. Not until the matter of a declining middle class getting less pay and benefits for the jobs thet CAN find...while wealth concentrates Latin-American or Saudi-style at the top - is addressed.

The amusing thing -- in a "I don't know whether to laugh or cry" sense -- is that the problems you cite can only be cured by a return to free market principles.

You are, in a way, saying "I won't allow you to treat my cancer until after you're cured my cancer".

O Ritmo Segundo said...

The amusing thing -- in a "I don't know whether to laugh or cry" sense -- is that the problems you cite can only be cured by a return to free market principles.

Which "free market" principles built the strongest middle class ever seen in the 1950s, Mr. Laugh or Cry? The 90% tax rate for the top?

The funny thing about you ridiculous reactionaries is that the decade you never stop pining for, the 1950s, was built on two decades of liberal socialism.

Whereas The Great Depression was built on that solid decade of right-wing anti-regulatory privilege-coddling known as The Roaring Twenties. And Prohibition, too. Another right-wing specialty -- policing other people's bodies.

You must come up with a lot of lies to prevent yourself from acknowledging the failure of reactionary conservatism throughout American history. Doesn't it ever become tiring? How do you remember which lies you already told? Or do you just make up more lies to cover up the lies that are being found out?

Listening to right-wingers is like watching a surgeon who sutures with band-aids.

The Crack Emcee said...

O Ritmo Segundo,

Note to Emcees everywhere: A microphone is not a truth-making instrument.

Which is why you're mentioning Adam Yauch, right, Ritmo? He was a nobody, just him and that lying microphone. 



It must really suck having a following infinitesimally smaller than Adam Yauch's, huh Crack?

No, not at all, I've done my share and have my fans. (You confuse being alienated with being unappreciated - which aren't the same thing.) Being the step-son of Charles Mingus, I'm connected to other artists in a way you'll never understand. I met Ike & Tina Turner, Eubie Blake, and a whole host of others before I was out of elementary school. (Maya Angelou was my baby-sitter.) Now, when I hear somebody scream, "That's my song!" I smile, knowing I'm part of a great heritage - just a different generation. I've had "Humpty Hump" sleep on my couch (we shared a girlfriend, at different times, too) been on albums with Chuck D, toured with Billy Bragg, inspired people to write books, and still know some of the biggest names in music. Everyone says I'd be huge if I stuck to one style, so slow fools like you can pigeon-hole me, but I can't be bothered. You forget (or, more accurately, probably never knew):

Artists share a world, away from their audience, where the large and small are regarded and respected according to their talent - not whether or not the likes of you know anything about them.

Face it, Ritmo:

You're a joke, man, and you'll always be a joke. You can no more fathom the life I'm living than you can the economies of Yurp. You can talk shit, but you do so ignorantly, and knowing that is good enough for me. Like I said, I'm coming out of my post-divorce shell again, and when I chart my next success I'll still be here, but inviting you to eat my dust. And you will.

It's pretty much all someone like you - who thinks to kick people when you imagine they're down - is good for.

The Crack Emcee said...

O Ritmo Segundo,

Yeah, Ed. Crack could really use the support. Although you are only one person, to Crack, it's as if you are an entire auditorium.

You're damned skippy. I remember hanging out with Michael Hutchence of INXS and his telling me "every fan you have is the ONLY fan you have" - and meaning it. He was a great guy who died much too young.

Much better than the likes of you.

The Crack Emcee said...

Because "a microphone is not a truth-making instrument," here's some words from Adam Yauch that go against the socialist agenda Ritmo is suggesting we follow - and endorsing how I'm saying we should be thinking:

“The true key is a trust in self, For when I trust myself, I fear no one else. I took control of my life, just as anyone can, I want everyone to see it’s in the palm of your hand. The past is gone, the future yet unborn, But right here and now is where it all goes on.”

Fuck Ritmo. Fuck socialism. And fuck ignorance:

You're free - now get out and make something happen,...

Revenant said...

Which "free market" principles built the strongest middle class ever seen in the 1950s

Inflation-adjusted median household income, in 2010 dollars:

1955: $35,484
2010: $49,445

Marty said...

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Unknown said...

------------Whereas The Great Depression was built on that solid decade of right-wing anti-regulatory privilege-coddling known as The Roaring Twenties.


Its like Reagan says, its not that liberals know nothing, its that so much of what they know is wrong. Here's what "austerity" and anti-regulatory "letting people succeed produced... Especially note the increase in the middle class.


Federal spending was cut from $6.3 billion in 1920 to $5 billion in 1921 and $3.2 billion in 1922. Federal taxes fell from $6.6 billion in 1920 to $5.5 billion in 1921 and $4 billion in 1922. Harding’s policies started a trend. The low point for federal taxes was reached in 1924; for federal spending, in1925. The federal government paid off debt, which had been $24.2 billion in 1920, and it continued to decline until 1930.

With Harding’s tax and spending cuts and relatively non-interventionist economic policy, GNP rebounded to $74.1 billion in 1922. The number of unemployed fell to 2.8 million — a reported 6.7 percent of the labor force — in 1922. So, just a year and a half after Harding became president, the Roaring 20s were underway. The unemployment rate continued to decline, reaching an extraordinary low of 1.8 percent in 1926. Since then, the unemployment rate has been lower only once in wartime (1944), and never in peacetime.

The Roaring 20s were a time of unprecedented prosperity. GNP expanded year after year without inflation. Productivity improved, and real wages increased. The stock market tripled. There was a dramatic expansion of the middle class. The Great Migration occurred during the 1920s, with some 7 million African-Americans moving north for better schools and job opportunities. Women had the vote. Millions of Americans began to buy cars, originally a luxury of the rich. People bought radios that enabled ordinary people to hear the finest entertainers in their own homes. Movies became popular. Frozen food made possible a more varied diet year-round. Doctors developed new medicines to fight deadly diseases like diphtheria and tuberculosis.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/226645/not-so-great-depression/jim-powell?pg=2

If Hoover or for that matter Roosevelt had followed the same policies then America would have recovered just as rapidly. Unfortunately, they both acted like Obama.

Methadras said...

Euro collapse incoming. Morons.

The Crack Emcee said...

Revenant,

You guys hit Ritmo that way, I got him this way - he wrote:

Yeah, Ed. Crack could really use the support. Although you are only one person, to Crack, it's as if you are an entire auditorium. 



Because, that's the way helps himself feel so much more important, wise and influential than he really is.


Now check this out:

I talked with someone who had heard [Duke Ellington's] band in Carbondale, Illinois, and had gone up afterwards to get Ellington’s autograph. They chatted. The man was charmed. Some fifteen years later, the band played Carbondale again, and afterwards my acquaintance went back up to re-introduce himself. There was no need – Ellington remembered his name.

But, of course, Ellington only did that "because, that's the way [he helped] himself feel so much more important, wise and influential than he really [was]."

Conclusion:

Ritmo is a small man, and an idiot of epic proportions,...

ricpic said...

As long as we 'ave le bon beurre what could go wrong, n'est-ce pas?

Cedarford said...

Nice try, Revenant...but people in general are aware of a dirty little fact.

Growth in "household" income since the 70s is due to women being forced to join the workforce to advance the economic well-being of households.

The median number for the worker in the 50% mark for income dustribution in the economy was 28,100 in 1970 adusted to 2004 dollars. It was flat until a brief rise under Clinton, nothing like the booming 40s,50s, 60s...brought it to 32,380 dollars.

Then after the Bush/Obama debacle it was down to 28,197 in 2100 (in 2004 dollars purchasing power)

The people know - wages for the typical person outside the wealthy has been flat for 40 years.

And no, education w/more degrees, tax cuts for the wealthy with the BS about "trickledown", more productivity from "Amazing High Technology", and spreading Freedom! For Freedom Lovers! - hasn't amounted to squat for the median American or most others.

caseym54 said...

Don't worry, France, Obama will bail you out in his second term, so long you keep the dollar as the world's reserve currency. You haven't run out of our money yet.

Xmas said...

No no no, Ritmo! The Prohibition solely belongs to Progressives. It was a movement to improve the health of Americans. It appealed to the same vein of "religious" fervor that screams to equate Government Spending with true Charity. It came out of the same Progressive cesspit of "Scientific" Know-Betterism that brought the world the Vermont Eugenics Survey.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yep. Cracker trusts himself so much that he defines everything in life by the supposed evils posed by new age spiritualism and France, just because a psychotic woman he had the poor judgment to marry cheated on him with a quack doctor who adhered to said ideas, in said place.

Get over yourself. You are a broken man who sees everything supposedly wrong with the world simply through the shattered perspective of that broken self. There is nothing macho about you or your canned "responses". Grow up. Your complaints are nothing more than generalizations about your own poor life choices. You lack the ability to relate to or even see anything else and it's pathetic beyond words. And increasingly boring.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Michael Hutchens killed himself - probably not someone to take advice from. Other than that, all your name-dropping makes for very impressive entertainment. If puffing oneself up on the basis of mere associations were an art, you'd be Picasso.

You are a narcissist whose shelf-life on the talent train is getting closer and closer to expiration. How old are you by now, anyway? I mean, Grandma Moses had to wait until she was in her 90s to start any serious work and achieve renown, but she was quite the exception. You can't be much further behind, can you?

(Of course, whatever Crack's real or alleged talents matter little in all this. But I just watched the film Amadeus and am struck by how much Crack strikes me as Salieri. A name-dropping egomaniac who is so jealous of his contemporaries, that he doesn't know how much of a hack it makes him seem. Witness how quickly he shifts from bashing MCA's philosophies to embracing them.)

Dude, get a self first. Then figure out how to market it.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

To my two social science opponents:

1. If you're trying to convince me that the economics of the 1920s were worth what came in 1929, I think you'll have to try a little harder.

2. It takes a lot of ignorance to believe that median income growth is what defines the strength of the middle class.

Steve Koch said...

"Taxes should reflect leaving each American with the same percentage of disposable income per dollar made after necessities, and all state, local and Fed taxes are factored in."

Don't agree with that. Let's say one guy is lazy, does not make money, and has virtually no disposable income without government intervention. Why should the lazy guy get a boost in income from the government at the expense of the smart, ambitious guy who works very hard to get rich.

People who create jobs have to be compensated.

Revenant said...

Growth in "household" income since the 70s is due to women being forced to join the workforce to advance the economic well-being of households.

Median number of workers per household:

1955: 1
2010: 1

Source: US Census

The Crack Emcee said...

O Ritmo Segundo,

Yep. Cracker trusts himself so much that he defines everything in life by the supposed evils posed by new age spiritualism and France, just because a psychotic woman he had the poor judgment to marry cheated on him with a quack doctor who adhered to said ideas, in said place.

Jesus, some of you are as predictable as daylight. As I said to the last loser to try that line - just a day or two ago - sure, I was totally into that stuff before all that happened, riiihgt? Of course, because you know so much about me, my life, and how I think.

And seeing how that's the case, you tell me, Ritmo - what does it mean when an entire society can't see through the machinations of charlatanry? Are there any larger implications? Say, like us suffering the worst president in history - brought to us by Oprah Winfrey right after she hustled "The Secret" on us - or is it just limited to what happened to me in my little world? Think hard, genius, because you've already lost every argument on this thread - as you do every other one you're on. You're an idiot.



Get over yourself. You are a broken man who sees everything supposedly wrong with the world simply through the shattered perspective of that broken self. There is nothing macho about you or your canned "responses". Grow up. Your complaints are nothing more than generalizations about your own poor life choices. You lack the ability to relate to or even see anything else and it's pathetic beyond words. And increasingly boring.

Boring? The man who is NEVER right has the nerve to call anyone else boring?!? You're wrong so often I don't even know why you show up here.

And only someone of your limited outlook would call dedication to a marriage a "poor life choice." Ever heard the phrase "for better or for worse," Ritmo? Sure you have, but your sick ass would say those words but not mean them, correct? Or you'd do as you are now and attempt to use them as fodder for some lame attack because, as a liberal, you've never respected a word you or anyone else has ever said in your life. Talk about pathetic.

No, I'm not going to let some liberal socialist asshole try to get me "to relate to or even see anything else" because I know your "anything else" and not only is it always wrong but it's evil to the core. And only you don't see it. That's why you're here, day after day and night after night, having your head handed to you - you actually think someone will eventually buy into your nonsensical world view, though it hasn't happened in the past and won't happen in the future. Meanwhile, you have to endure the indignity of reading "Crack is right" or "I agree with Crack" on a regular basis, making a mockery of your own self-proclaimed brilliance. Well, suck on it, you fucking slope.

You can't touch me, Ritmo, because you don't have either the brains or the balls. I know more about this life, and this world, than you do - in whatever puny corner of it you inhabit - and I always will. You're a joke, here, and an embarrassment to humanity offline, and I have a sneaking suspicion you know it because nobody would put as much energy into trying to get validation as you do if you were all that. I can point to article after article of others saying what value I bring to this existence - or even examples on this blog - but what have you got? Nothing but a long string of Althouse threads saying you're wrong - with everybody you encounter proving it. But, without a doubt, we can always count on you coming back for more. Pick a subject - any subject - and whatever it is you're going to be the retard, revealed, every fucking time.

Now THAT's what I call being "a broken man," and you define it to the core.

The Crack Emcee said...

O Ritmo Segundo,

Michael Hutchens killed himself - probably not someone to take advice from.

Better than listening to you.

Other than that, all your name-dropping makes for very impressive entertainment. If puffing oneself up on the basis of mere associations were an art, you'd be Picasso.

Oh, first I was a nobody but now I'm name-dropping? Nice pivot, dumbass. Get your lies straight, Ritmo, I can't be the loser you started me off as with all these famous friends.



You are a narcissist whose shelf-life on the talent train is getting closer and closer to expiration.

1) Like you'd know, and 2) you have NO talent - not even for commenting!

How old are you by now, anyway? I mean, Grandma Moses had to wait until she was in her 90s to start any serious work and achieve renown, but she was quite the exception. You can't be much further behind, can you?

That's the wonderful thing about talent - it ain't age specific - so what are you fishing for now? I know you can't admit when you're wrong, so it has to be for more information you're hoping to use in defending your ignorance. Sorry, idiot, you're on your own.



(Of course, whatever Crack's real or alleged talents matter little in all this. But I just watched the film Amadeus and am struck by how much Crack strikes me as Salieri. A name-dropping egomaniac who is so jealous of his contemporaries, that he doesn't know how much of a hack it makes him seem.

Ha! Again, you can't keep your lies straight - observe:

The Dumbass: "It must really suck having a following infinitesimally smaller than Adam Yauch's, huh Crack?"

The man the Dumbass is now accusing of being "so jealous of his contemporaries": "No, not at all,…"

And, again, he's the only dipstick slow enough to think I wouldn't catch his hypocrisy.

Witness how quickly he shifts from bashing MCA's philosophies to embracing them.)

I have made it clear MCA was a talent who took a wrong turn. Which is more than I can say for you - you've been nothing but a lemming going over a cliff since the first day I encountered you.

Dude, get a self first. Then figure out how to market it.

Hilarious - here's your entrance on this thread:

Oh joy. A Nazi and a barely employable rapper debating the finer points of achieving economic stability and opportunity. Happy Days at the Althouse blog.

"A Nazi and a barely employable rapper." Well goodness - even with all those newspaper articles he doesn't think I know how to market myself. That brings up the obvious question, if "a Nazi and a barely employable rapper" are what we are, what are you, Ritmo? Except for an intellectually deficient striver who's always wrong, I mean? Please, Mr. Laying Down The Law, define yourself and your participation on this blog. I dare you. You and I have been around here for a few years now, how would you describe your role so far as we all can see? Give it your best shot, loser:

This ought to be hilarious,...

John Lynch said...

Good. If it takes the left to kill this stupid Euro business, then vote for the left.

John Lynch said...

Holy flame war, Crackman.

Gary Rosen said...

Once again C-fudd reveals his inner Bolshevist. As I have long contended, he is a self-loathing Joooo. After all, who *wouldn't* loathe him?

Alan said...

So what are the best French stocks to short?

Conquistador politics works only as long as the wealth of the looted is greater than the expenditures of the looters. The socialist looters won't close the rising gap between supply and demand, so the bubble comes closer and closer to bursting.

With that in mind, here's a suggested campaign song for the anti-looters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPlf09nVgWk

Steve Koch said...

"And no, education w/more degrees, tax cuts for the wealthy with the BS about "trickledown", more productivity from "Amazing High Technology", and spreading Freedom! For Freedom Lovers! - hasn't amounted to squat for the median American or most others."

By definition, improving productivity is absolutely essential to increasing the amount of the goods and services that people consume. So many of the goods and services that we consume (for example the computer hardware/software and communications technology that enable this conversation) are the result of technology. There is no doubt that technology has increased productivity.

There is no doubt that some (not all) education and training can improve the productivity of an individual. The devil is in the details but the right education can make a huge improvement in the earning capability of an individual.

There is not much that is more important than liberty. History, especially recent history, has shown that there is no greater threat to our liberty than our own government. The larger the government, the greater the threat that government poses to our liberty. Eternal vigilance of our government is the price of liberty.

Steve Koch said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

"Like footsoldiers in an army of idiocy, none of the tin soldier reactionaries assembled here can offer a shred of evidence that "austerity" works."

We've had a real-life example over the last several years where European countries that tried the austerity game dropped deeper into recession, while an American government that, thankfully, didn't, has recovered in proportion to the meager measure of stimulus it provided."

Austerity, meager stimulus? Haha, according to wikipedia, in 2011, the feds had $2.3 trillion in revenue and spent $3.6, a deficit of $1.3 trillion (57%!). The 2011 deficit was not unusual, during the Obama presidency the deficit totals about $4 trillion. These enormous deficits are an attempt by Obama to temporarily delay the inevitable day (actually decades) of reckoning until after election day.

We have to make huge cuts to our spending to pay off the huge debts the feds have incurred (esp during Obama's reign). The dems have not even passed a budget during Obama's reign.

"It's really gotten this predictable: Demonstrate any real-life evidence of anything... of ANYTHING, and the reactionaries will proclaim the opposite.

"They are the party of lies, Bizarro-World fiction, and just believing anything that the real world has just proved false."

ORS is projecting here, the left specializes in constructing propaganda based on alternate realities to advance their political agenda. For a lefty, politics is more important than his professional specialty which is why lefties are willing to sacrifice their professional integrity to advance their lefty political agenda. We see this in the lefty news media that dominates the USA news market, in academia, in K-12 education.

Conservatives are not in denial of reality, we have just become expert at recognizing lefty propaganda.

BTW, thanks for using "reactionary", very funny. May I suggest that you incorporate "running dogs of capitalism" in your next rant?

Rusty said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...
To my two social science opponents:

1. If you're trying to convince me that the economics of the 1920s were worth what came in 1929, I think you'll have to try a little harder.



No, but a little history is worthwhile here.
Because money was plentiful To EVERYBODY, everyone was looking for places to put it. Market speculation looked like a place for people with money to invest, and invest they did. Why? Because brokerage houses would allow for margin investing with just 10% cash on the books. So for a $10.00 investment a shoe shine boy could invest a $100.00 in AT&T. And that's what happened. According to my sources a NY bank defaulted. Depositors were asking to get all of their money out. In the mean time the bank had lent their money and 90% more to boot.
There was nothing wrong with the mechanism that created wealth. There was something very wrong with the mechanisms that handled the cash.
The run on one bank became a run on a dozen banks, then hundreds. The markets got nervous and started to call in their margins. Guess what? The money didn't exist.
And here's the part that made it all worse. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Instead of rushing dollars to loan to the banks to stave off a run, they sat on their hands and did nothing.
The story goes that Joe Kennedy got out of the stock market in late 1928. He realized it had been oversold when he started getting stock tips from his shoeshine boy.
Every solution that Hoover proposed and FDR implemented just exacerbated the pain until Lend Lease put Americans to work.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Geez. That Cracker guy sure is a bitchy one. No wonder his wife, psychotic as she is - again, doesn't speak well to Cracker's decision-making skills - cheated on him.

I especially love the one where he said that being a name-dropper makes him famous. That's like saying that being a fellatrix endows one with a dick. Well, maybe in "his" case...

I haven't seen that much chest thumping since the movie 2001.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I can't be the loser you started me off as with all these famous friends.

Oh, ok. My bad. Instead you're just a clinger. A dingleberry. A wart on the ass of humanity. A Kato Kaelin. A houseguest of people who need someone to look down upon.

AllieOop said...

Ritmo,
You handed Crack his ass on a platter, great work, as usual. He lives in the past, his future is lost to him because he cripples himself with delusion.