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Yea thats a laugher. This woman obviously has never lived in close quarters with only women over a long period of time.It only seems "reasonable" to her because there's no opportunity for a man to disagree with, or critique the ideas of the women. IOWS: "My sexism is OK!"
Yeah, you can see that fact on display via "The Bachelor", "Jersey Shore", "The View", "Rock of Love", "The Kardashians", "Say Yes to the Dress", "Toddlers and Tiaras", etc.Rooms chock full of superior reasonable goodness, and it's all 'cause they're female. Obviously.
It's easy living in an echo chamber if you're one of the echoes.Hillary was and is like GodZero. She's never really accomplished anything on her own.
Have to side with Sullivan here, Thatcher was a much more authentic feminist than Hillary - She didn't marry her way into politics, and never cried at a press conference. Also, Thatcher never attempted a fake black accent, either, as far as I know, so there's that.
Hillary was and is like GodZero. She's never really accomplished anything on her own.Well, way back she was smart enough to learn or understand that there is no money paper trail through the Chicago commodities pits.
yeah...but when you take them out of the room. Watch out!!
You think it is all good fun the way Sullivan 'lambastes' Hillary!? He is one crazy SoB who also put out ugly obnoxious statements and theories about Palin. But when he 'lambastes' Hillary, it is all good? Your cruel neutrality is wearing thin. Hillary has seen too much of gender disparities in the world not to talk about it and not to do something about it.
Sullivan is right. Hillary! is where she is, almost entirely, because of who she married. Thatcher got there almost totally on her own. For that, I would point a daughter in the direction of Thatcher, long before I would Hillary! (even ignoring the later's serious ethical and moral issues).
For the first time I agree 100% with Sullivan. (gasp)"She never played the card that Hillary [Clinton] played at some points. She never played the ‘oh you can’t do this to me’ [card]. She [Thatcher] played the ‘I’m as hard as nails as everyone, I’m a feminist who doesn’t believe there’s a difference between men and women in the public square and we abide by the same rules and God help you fight with me’ [card].”I've said it before and have caught flack by some of the 'ladies' on the blogs**, but women are just impossible to work with in a professional setting and are too much work to be around in a group social setting.The effing drama just never ends. The back biting, spite hidden behind smiles. The emotional approach to almost everything. Hidden messages inside of what looks like normal conversations. Gah!! too much work.Not all women, of course, but by and large the majority. I have had a few work relationships with females that were great and a couple of good women friends in my lifetime. Sully is right.And now we see it in the incessant whining about a "war on women" over not getting free birth control. Wah wah wah....my body....your money...wah wah wah.Puleeese.** and I will probably get nagged at again for violating the 'sisterhood' or something.
She's very ladylike.
This whole episode has a "two skunks fighting over roadkill" quality to it.
"Women 'in a room... tend to be a little more reasonable' than men."But maybe it's what they do after they leave the room that "reverts to the mean" (pun intended) among all power brokers, male and female.
"She's very ladylike."Little Miss Sullivan? Not.Ed and Bruce, her biggest accomplishment was getting her husband elected president. If you think that big bag of lug would have had the discipline or persistence to accomplish it on his own, think again.
Ed and Bruce, her biggest accomplishment was getting her husband elected president. If you think that big bag of lug would have had the discipline or persistence to accomplish it on his own, think again.So she nagged her husband all the way to the White House? Still not very "feminist" or "liberated".
Why do we keep giving Maher and anything related him more clicks?
Dame Thatcher, Golda Meir, and Indira Ghandi--real leaders (female of course) but tough as nails. And now we put up with the current crop of whiner "feminists." Yuck.
Now that's that Andrew Sullivan we all used to know and love. I liked how Schiller said that the only woman who took a comparable amount of crap to Hillary was Palin. I could see in Andrew an "it's on now, bitch" reaction.Good stuff.
deborah said... Oh, my.----------------Many commenters on this board are incorrigible when it comes to Hillary Clinton. It is called 'Clinton Derangement Syndrome (CDS)'. Althouse fans the flames and throws red meat now and then. I don't think Hillary describes herself as feminist but that is irrelevant.
Since Churchill Mrs. T was the last real man in number 10.pm317 you are a text book example of Clinton Delusional Syndrome. Has anyone noticed the rise of the nanny state began when woman got the vote?
As the Argentian General's junta discovered: never fuck with a woman who wears a hat and carries a purse. Ask the crew of the Belgrano.
I remember that Falkland Island incident. I didn't understand it. But I recall Thatcher saying something like, "Now you've gone and done it. We must now come down there and kick your asses. Give us three or four good weeks to get down there and we shall be right on having the job done."
"Women in a room .. tend be more reasonable than men" Who was the loudest mouth in the group?
@pm317: I don't care if people hate the Clintons; there's plenty of reason to do so, but a little attention to detail would be welcome.
Not only are women in a room more reasonable than men they're also simultaneously more angry than men. It's a multitasking thing.
'Women in a room tend to be more reasonable'says a woman. As a man I assert the opposite. Prove me wrong!In my experience women are less apt to engage in direct conflict, and are more apt to be passive-aggressive to get their points across. The Brown prof can try to couch that as reasonable, I guess, but it's misleading. Prosser v. Bradley, exhibit A.I didn't know what Andy Sullivan looked like. He looks kinda like a muppet.
Hilary subordinated her political career to Bill's because Bill was a far more effective politician. Without Bill, it's unlikely that Hilary would have had much of a political career. She has known that from the get-go, and her decision to leverage her career on Bill's was a wise choice. Why slam her for a wise choice?
She has known that from the get-go, and her decision to leverage her career on Bill's was a wise choice. Why slam her for a wise choice?I think the slam is the idea that somehow by riding in on her husband's coattails...even though she may have been the cattle prod behind the coat.....and pretending that Hillary is some sort of epitome of Feminism is the acknowledgement of hypocrisy.Praising Hillary and denigrating women like Palin who are the REAL epitome of feminism because they did it without having powerful husbands. Debasing the Palin types merely because the Palin types aren't part of the good old girls elite club.Hypocrisy at its highest.
The women I know who have done what they chose to do in disregard to any sexual stereotypes all have relatively few female friends because, in their own words, women drive them crazy.One thing I learned in college is that in most situations if male roommates don't get along, they either duke it out or ignore one another. When female roommates don't get along, they get revenge in ways that are astonishingly nasty.I'd also add that in this context "reasonable" means "not disagreeing with."
"Praising Hillary and denigrating women like Palin who are the REAL epitome of feminism because they did it without having powerful husbands. Debasing the Palin types merely because the Palin types aren't part of the good old girls elite club.Hypocrisy at its highest."I highly admire both Palin and Hillary. To say that one is superior in feminism to the other is to engage in mud-wrestling for the menfolk. They both did it 'their way.' Also consider the the 20-year generational difference.
Sullivan is right that Thatcher is by far the superior feminist in comparison to Hillary. Duh. Hillary's success is due to Bill's success exclusively. That's how you advance up the ladder in a "progressive" society; tribal connections, belonging to the right group and family. Just ask Chelsea, she knows. Thatcher made her own way, all the way to the top, in classist British society, and governed rather than just preserved power. It was an undeniably epic accomplishment.But then Sullivan defends Thatcher because she was so "amazing" for never allowing another woman in her cabinet. Granted, women esp in Britain in that era were by and large liberal squishes but that's not the source of his enthusiasm for a woman-free government.Sullivan seems to really dislike women. He'll grudgingly worship one for accomplishments that he knows cannot be denied, but esp if she didn't appear to like other women either. And never forget his vicious and fradulent contributions to running Palin down.Wendy Schiller is a blot in general and specifically upon my alma mater. At least Glenn Loury still teaches there. I hope. Haven't checked lately.
Women "in a room... tend to be a little more reasonable" than men."Wendy Schiller obviously didn't watch this week's "Celebrity Apprentice." (Memo to Trump: fire the hyperventilating faux redhead.)(reads article)Is Hillary is a faux feminist? Depends on the meaning of "feminist." Invoking Christina Hoff Sommers' terminology, Hil is not an equity feminist (one who truly believes in the even playing field) but a gender feminist (female supremacist variety).
"All in good fun"? Nothing that the infamous Andrew Sullivan says is "all in good fun". He hates women and only finds it convenient to laud Thatcher as a springboard to denigrating Hillary Clinton. Btw, what kind of "real feminist" makes it a point to assure than no other women challenge her authority as Thatcher did by never elevating a woman to her Cabinet? That's an easy answer. No "real feminist" does that. Thatcher was an anomaly, not a feminist. Hillary has spent her entire adult life trying to improve the lives of all women. Thatcher spent hers trying to prove that she was one of the boys. Hillary lives and breathes feminism. The choice to move to her husband's home state and support his political career while working as an attorney and having a family is exactly the kind decision that feminist principles assure women. She worked hard to get elected to the US Senate from New York state and won re-election with almost 70% of the vote. She received more votes in a presidential primary than any person in history. Those facts expose fools like Andrew Sullivan and Chris Matthews as the hateful misogynists they are.Andrew Sullivan is a conservative author who gained a wider audience due, in large part, to his appearances on noted misogynist Bill Maher's shows. Sullivan was an interesting guest, a gay Englishman with a Harvard education, who spouted conservative pap until he became somewhat disenchanted with the Iraq War and, soon after, fell in love with Barack Obama. Then having to wait in line to fellate Obama behind more widely published gay and, even, straight men, Sullivan appparently hoped to improve his chances by throwing sexist mud on Hillary hoping that some of it would stick. Then, once Hillary was taken down by the crooked machinations of the DNC, he engaged in the kind of crusade that Republicans infamously conducted against Bill Clinton the 1990's. Like Ken Starr's obsession with Bill Clinton's penis, Sullivan occupied himself and his audience with his obsession with the details of Palin's uterus and vagina. He, like Starr, is one perverted dude and certainly should not be employed by any credible organization. Nor should his rants be characterized by any intelligent person as "all in good fun".Btw, Sullivan's dirty work on behalf of Obama finally paid off. He was an invited guest to the state dinner the White House held to honor the conservative prime minister of Great Britain a couple of weeks ago. I'm fairly sure that he would have preferred to spend the evening under the table with his head in Obama's lap.
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