January 21, 2012

I think Gingrich is going to win in South Carolina.

And then what will happen?

ADDED: Gingrich is doing well because of his performance in the debates. Perhaps if Gingrich is the candidate, Obama won't debate him. Why give him a chance to shine? Here's why. Obama will predict that the majority of Americans will prefer the nice man who is President over the strange and brash man who is attempting to crush him. Think how we felt back in 2000 when this happened:



All Obama will need to do is stand his ground and be the normal person, and Gingrich will look like a jackass. Do not fear the Newt. He is self-limiting. Just like ManBearPig.

Now, picture Mitt Romney and Barack Obama in a debate. Come on, wake up and picture them. Hey! Come on! Look, it will be 2 low-key stammerers lulling you into a deep slumber. But before you drift off, something emotional will happen to you. One man will have made you feel some warmth. You'll care about him. Not you, my readers, the majority of you. But you, the American voters, the majority of you. You will feel something that you won't ever need to subject to a process of rational judgment. You will float on, half-asleep and into your polling place where you will make your mark next to the name Barack Obama.

218 comments:

1 – 200 of 218   Newer›   Newest»
Revenant said...

I don't think there's enough difference between Gingrich and Romney to be worth talking about.

I do, however, think Gingrich will lose to Obama. He's got... whatever the antonym of "charisma" is.

traditionalguy said...

Dramatic stuff will happen.

Newt will play the theme from Jaws as he circles the Florida coast until Mitt screams and runs off the beach abandoning the seven million dollars that he and his PAC have already spent on Florida that he could have kept safe in the Cayman Islands.

FOX News will announce that Roger Ailes has checked into Betty Ford Clinic to treat his kingmaker in Control addiction.

Life imitates Hollywood. And remember that South Carolina and Florida both are Georgia neighbors.

Rialby said...

He will implode again in 3 weeks or less. He's a dick.

Carol_Herman said...

Meaningless.

My money's on Donald Trump, emerging as an Independent. Sure. Like Ross Perot. But with a better organization.

And, Newt won't win much. Though someone is giving him lots of money. (Enough so he can afford to stop off and buy Callista some "memorabilia" from Tiffany's.)

Yeah. Newt's happily married this time.

And, the Funny Underwear guy can't win, either.

How come no one notices all the wasted time that's been applied by the social conservatives on the right?

shiloh said...

Then the Red Sea will part and mittens will be swallowed up by the ghost of conservative boredom ...

or a reasonable facsimile thereof. :D

Newt! Newt! Newt!

Iuconnu said...

Then what? The same response as would have happened if Ron Paul had won in Iowa. A week before Iowa there were pundits preparing the ground by saying that if Paul won then second place would be the real winner since Paul would never become the nominee. Same thing happening now. http://news.yahoo.com/race-still-romneys-121221965.html

Writ Small said...

Actually, who can beat Obama is a rather important difference between the two men.

But my prediction is that people will make a lot of predictions that will later be proven wrong.

Romney's danger was always that the conservatives would converge on one man before he had won enough early races to be inevitable. That seems to have happened. It's now a matter of whether Romney's money and organization can beat Gingrich's natural base appeal, and whether Gingrich will self-destruct once again. Very hard to predict.

With Gingrich as the nominee, there are some potential good things. Obama will beat him handily, but independents will be disinclined to reward Obama completely given his manifest failure. That means a decent chance for a Republican congress.

pbAndjFellowRepublican said...

Romney eventually beats him for the nomination.

In my circles I've been smugly saying this, w/ certitude, for a year and a half. I'd hate to be proven wrong.

I'd feel America's Politico-ish. **shudder**

rhhardin said...

Proposed bumper sticker

Newt in '12

Won't deliberately ruin the country.

deborah said...

What will happen? You'll double down on the fat comments and other visceral reactions.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

And then what will happen? Well, we already know that Althouse will vote for Romney in the general election...but could she actually pull the lever for Gingrich over Obama in November?!!?

AJ Lynch said...

Let's ask the commenters to describe what most people feel when think of Gingrich. As Rev said it is the opposite of charisma.

I'll suggest Gingrich has an abundance of bragadoccio for someone who was Speaker of the House for only 3-4 years and had to leave with his tail between his legs. After that, he seems to have made an a lot of money sucking at the public teat. He is now a blowhard who regularly exaggerates his involvement and impact on past events. He is really just Joe Biden with a brain.

shiloh said...

Again, as a rule, Reps fall in line.

But not always. :)

Indeed!

rcocean said...

Depends on what Paul and RS do. If they stay in, they'll split the anti-Romney vote and Mitt will cruise to victory. If not, Gingrich might have a chance.

dreams said...

Doesn't matter because Romney is going to win the nomination.

write_effort said...

Gingrich oozes corruption out of every pore, but Romney had better change his tune on the tax returns. And why doesn't Romney point out that Gingrich didn't keep his bond with voters when he quit Congress the day after being re-elected. Georgia had to hold a special election to fill the seat. How much did that cost?

SteveR said...

Romney has more money and a much larger organization. He has positioned himself for a long race.

The media wanting Gingrich to run and lose against Obama has done a good job giving Newt easy targets to gain points in the primaries.

Republicans are predictably stupid. Not that I wouldn't want to see Newt go againt Obama in a debate.

Canuck said...

Since 1980 S.C. has been a must win for Republicans.

But I don't think it's inevitable that the S.C. winner gets the nomination.

Florida will be very important.

Rabel said...

It's almost like the liberal media and some of that GOP holier-than-thou machine overplayed their hand this time.

Dumb arses.

Lamar63 said...

"And then what will happen?"

Four more years.

Old Dad said...

Romney will win a decisive victory in FL, marching on to the nomination and a narrow victory over President Obama in the fall, busting the ridiculous myths about the primary process. The Republicans will hold the House and win the Senate, allowing the new President to lead a modest economic recovery, and an equally modest rollback of Obamacare--the public mandate will be repealed, but much of the other nonsense will remain. President Romney will not make any significant progress in reforming entitlements, but the modest Romney economic boomlet will reduce the deficit, and blunt the sense of crisis. Government will continue to grow at a somewhat slower pace, but creeping inevitably toward socialism and decline.
On the international front, President Romney will modestly increase defense spending, and will support Mossad's efforts to deter Iran's nuclear ambitions. Regardless, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, and Syria will radicalize. The economic crisis in Europe will ease based on an anemic world economic recovery, moving from code blue to a long term stay in ICU.

The two term President Romney will slow our rate of national decline and avert the worst of President Obama's disasters, but the feeling that we are merely shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic will persist.

In other words we're fucked. Ronald Reagan didn't run in 1980, and Gerald Ford beat Jimmy Carter.

traditionalguy said...

I am sure Romney felt safe behind his six years in the making Maginot Line of Ground Game Forts, pre-sighted Oppo Research Artillery, and unlimited PAC money supply lines.

But he never planned for Newt's Erwin Romell like blitzkreig debate tactics that has sudenly gone around and surrounded Romney's defenses.

Poor Mitt is acting like our poor Atlanta Falcons. He looks great and wins a lot early, but he has no smart as Newt play callers that out think his opponents when he gets to playoff time.

He just runs another 4th and 1 up the middle and loses the ball again.

Mitt could not think on the fly and Release the stupid Tax Return...it was not in his game plan.

Maguro said...

And then what will happen?

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!

It'll be far out, man.

Alex said...

shiloh - ask yourself why you mock conservatives.

deborah said...

"But he never planned for Newt's Erwin Romell like blitzkreig debate tactics that has sudenly gone around and surrounded Romney's defenses."

lol but don't get cocky!

deborah said...

"shiloh - ask yourself why you mock conservatives."

Shiloh and Andycapp display the same low-level, persisent whine I once observed in my 3 year-old nephew during the prepartion of a holiday meal. My mom and sisters and I were bustling around the kitchen, and I suddenly became aware of my nephew trying to get attention. He'd been doing so for a few minutes...lol.

Michael said...

Newt will ask the questions of Obama that the press will not. Win or lose it will be a great show. Never has Obama been publicly challenged as he will be should Newt become the candidate.

Alex said...

Shiloh and Andycapp display the same low-level, persisent whine I once observed in my 3 year-old nephew during the prepartion of a holiday meal. My mom and sisters and I were bustling around the kitchen, and I suddenly became aware of my nephew trying to get attention.

But surely shiloh is an adult and it would behoove him to want to actually try and convince conservatives of the worthiness of his arguments. By mocking the people he is trying to convert, he fails at all his objectives. If his only purpose is to mock, then I question his maturity.

Lem said...

And then what will happen?

Rush spoke of a "brokered" convention.. a throwback to when the ticket was chosen at a "smoke filled room".

I have a feeling Gingrich would win a brokered convention fight.

J.R. said...

Romney will no longer seem inevitable, and he will fade away. Gingrich will get the most delegates, and at the convention, in order to keep Ron Paul from holding the whole process hostage, Romney will give his delegates to Gingrich.

Seven Machos said...

Gingrich is such a douchebag. I'll vote for him under Instapundit's syphilitic camel rule, but I won't be happy about it.

With McCain, it was: you know he's going to lose but that's okay because sometimes you lose and maybe, somehow, this Obama character will be all the things he thinks he is. With Gingrich, it would be: I can't believe my party fucked up and nominated a candidate this corrupt and unlikeable to run against a president ripe to be pummeled.

It would be a tragedy (dictionary definition).

Seven Machos said...

I have a feeling Gingrich would win a brokered convention fight.

Why? The people who run the Republican party hate Gingrich. They know what an unfocused, megalomaniacal, corrupt douchebag he is.

pm317 said...

And then what will happen?

Then lose the GE. Independents will flee. Discontented anti-Obama Hillaryites will stay home or vote third party. Both groups would vote for Romney if only he can straighten kinks in his armor.

I was just listening to Paul Gigot's program on Fox. They used all the same words I used here in my comment discussing why Romney is not doing what he should be (on the tax thread yesterday).

There was an evangelical guy on Gigot's program that had the intellectual honesty to say that the conservative value voters are being hypocritical voting for Gingrich.

AJ Lynch said...

Seven said about Newt:

"They know what an unfocused, megalomaniacal, corrupt douchebag he is."

Ding ding ding- we have a winning answer to Rev's question about what is the antonym of charisma!

Alex said...

I wonder how many "values voters" have skeletons in their own closets and thus are forgiving of Gingrich. Remember that a southerner would always prefer to vote for a fellow southerner over the Rockefeller Yankee like Romney. Also it doesn't help that he's Mormon, which evangelicals look on worse then Nazis did Jews.

Irene said...

Lamar63 said:

"And then what will happen?"

Four more years.


That's my prediction, too. A Gingrich nomination seals an Obama victory. Gingrich can't win the middle.

Lem said...

Never has Obama been publicly challenged as he will be should Newt become the candidate.

While its all well and good to.. for at least once.. desire to see somebody do as you proscribe.. ultimately.. the election is not an idol search.

Should my side win.. the new president should be up to the challenge of changing the direction Obama has put us on... be it Newt or Mitt

edutcher said...

Rasmussen has Newt within the margin of error, so any win may be of the IA caucus type.

That said, Newt's appeal has always been his debating skills and the spectacle of him wiping up the floor with GodZero. I've said that there would be more to the campaign than that and, at Power Line, there are some caveats to even that.

If Newt wins, we still go on to FL and all the other 57 states.

Revenant said...

I do, however, think Gingrich will lose to Obama. He's got... whatever the antonym of "charisma" is.

Well, that puts him even with Zero.

Freeman Hunt said...

I do, however, think Gingrich will lose to Obama. He's got... whatever the antonym of "charisma" is.

Repell-isma.

F said...

The best thing about a Newt nomination would be to watch how effortlessly and decisively Obama turns aside his insistence for Lincoln-Douglas style debates. "Debate Newt? Whaffor? I gotta go play some golf" and the press will lap it up.

Hizzle said...

Well, ideally, Romney would then start working to actually earn the nomination instead of the "vote for me I'm inevitable" campaign he has been running.

traditionalguy said...

@ Seven...Newt is not quite into the megalomaniac category. He is just an asshole that learned his craft for 37 years.

Getting opponents off balance is a part of his developed intelligence and political skills. He is not an Eagle Scout nor a Saint. He is more a Dick Butkis type politician.

If the GOP wants an innocent friend in DC, then they should buy a dog...or try out sincere Saint-orum.

JohnJ said...

“Romney eventually beats him for the nomination.”

“Doesn't matter because Romney is going to win the nomination.”

I think this is correct. Gingrich has gained substantially from what is now the second major backlash against the media. But ultimately, sober minds will prevail and Romney will be nominated.

“He (Gingrich) will implode again in 3 weeks or less.”

Interesting that most of us, I suspect, are anticipating this. Why, it’s almost as though he can’t help it.

Mark O said...

Jonah Goldberg and Barack Obama will smile.

deborah said...

"Why? The people who run the Republican party hate Gingrich. They know what an unfocused, megalomaniacal, corrupt douchebag he is."

Set a thief to catch a thief.

Freeman Hunt said...

Gingrich can't win the middle.

Heck, he could barely win me, and I'm pretty far right.

pm317 said...

While its all well and good to.. for at least once.. desire to see somebody do as you proscribe.. ultimately.. the election is not an idol search.
-----------------

Exactly. In a desire to get back at Obama and his crony media people are not clearly thinking about who can run the country best.

Lem said...

Why? The people who run the Republican party hate Gingrich.

Dont underestimate the religious right.. (not on Mitts corner) and the tea parties... and the where-are-you-going-to-go-once-Newts-up-against-Obama rest.

Remember.. its considered a good thing politically to be hated by the elite these days (occupy).. so much so even Obama is running as an outsider... the brass balls on that man.

Bart DePalma said...

Mitt Romney has been coasting on the strength of an enormous war chest and more importantly on the weakness of a conservative majority split between a half dozen candidates at one point. However, both advantages are disappearing and fast.

Currently, there are only two conservatives left running - Gingrich and Santorum - with Paul sticking around with about 10% to 15% of the vote. Both the Tea Party economic conservatives and (interestingly with his marital history) evangelicals are breaking towards Gingrich. All the energy I am hearing in the Tea Party networks are for Gingrich.

About a week ago, the Gingrich Super PAC received a several million lifeline and can now compete with Romney getting the message out. If Gingrich wins SC, his donations should surge. This gives Gingrich the ability to become the only virtual conservative on TV and radio even if Santorum hangs around because Santorum is again broke.

This should enable Gingrich to start assembling a plurality of around 40% of the vote and over 50% once Santorum is gone.

Mitt Romney has had two election cycles to make the sale to the GOP base and failed. I do not see how he does so over the next month or two before this wraps up.

Debates are obviously Gingrich's forte. It will be fascinating if Gingrich gets the nomination and carries out his promise to follow Barack Obama around the country until Obama agrees to a series of Lincoln Douglas style debates. Gingrich held two such debates with Cain and Huntsman and dominated them both with substance. Obama would be exposed in an open, wide ranging debate.

Freeman Hunt said...

It will be fascinating if Gingrich gets the nomination and carries out his promise to follow Barack Obama around the country until Obama agrees to a series of Lincoln Douglas style debates.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

deborah said...

"Gingrich can't win the middle."

It depends how well he disassembles Obama and presents his own brand of hope and change.

But it will probably come down to who has the most convincing negative ads.

edutcher said...

Along with the whole Pelosi-on-the-sofa thing that made Newt so repellent to "Conservatives" before was his proposed guest worker program, which was roundly denounced as amnesty.

Surprised Milton hasn't raised the issue.

And Hizzle's right. Milton needs some competition. It will make him a better candidate, although I'd say everybody viewed him and the default, rather than inevitable, nominee.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... I can't believe my party fucked up and nominated a candidate this corrupt and unlikeable to run against a president ripe to be pummeled..."

I know several Democrats that said the same thing in 2004.

chuck b. said...

I think Newt is horrifying enough to win the whole thing, just barely.

shiloh said...

"ask yourself why you mock conservatives."

Admittedly it's wayyy too easy, but pretty much the same reason Althouse conservatives mock liberals.

The yin and yang of political blogs.

btw, re: this thread I have indirectly mocked mittens, and most Rep regulars here will readily admit, mittens is not a conservative.

A fool to be sure, but not conservative.

take care

Gary Rosen said...

"it doesn't help that he's Mormon, which evangelicals look on worse then Nazis did Jews."

I haven't heard of too many instances of evangelicals marching Mormons into gas chambers. But at least you didn't say "worse than Cedarford did Jews".

Bart DePalma said...

BD: It will be fascinating if Gingrich gets the nomination and carries out his promise to follow Barack Obama around the country until Obama agrees to a series of Lincoln Douglas style debates.

Freeman Hunt said... Never. Gonna. Happen.


Obama cannot risk such debates because he would be embarrassed by his lack of specific knowledge. When Obama made the mistake of holding a televised summit on Obamacare with the Congress, it was obvious during Paul Ryan's exposition that Obama had no idea about the specifics of his own plan.

On the other hand, Gingrich can challenge Obama every day to such debates with his punch line "Obama can bring a teleprompter and I will bring knowledge," and I wonder how long the egomaniac Obama can resist the challenge from the egomaniac Gingrich. Obama is a man who believes his press clippings.

shiloh said...

hmm, even my """buddy""" Bart DePalma, who was born a die-hard Rep conservative, prefers Newt over mittens.

When Romney finally figures out what he truly believes, hopefully he'll let everyone know lol.

btw, hi Bart and keep hope alive!

Lem said...

..mittens is not a conservative.

Yea that's another thing about Mitt.. his clandestine conservative credentials are... counterfeit at best.

Newt's has not comported himself worthy of the Reagan mantle either.

But like Rumsfeld said - you go to war with the army you got.

America's Politico said...

As you all know, I am a GOP who voted for Obama in 2008. I was wrong in voting then I believe. So, now, I want Romney to be the nominee. But, the GOP will nominate Newt. I cannot vote for Newt. I just cannot even think about it. I could vote for Paul, but not Newt.

So, in 2012, I will once again vote for Obama.

I cannot vote for any man who abuses women like Clinton, Newt, and others.

I still am loyal to GOP but I have my limits. I cannot support hypocrisy.

The only thing "despicable" is Newt treatment of wife #1 and wife #2. He pursued Clinton while having an affair and lecturing about moral leadership.

Do you remember the movie, Animal House?

The lovely girl says that boy is a P-I-G? Well, that is how feel about Newt: That man is a P-I-G. He will shame America at home and abroad.

deborah said...

"This gives Gingrich the ability to become the only virtual conservative on TV and radio even if Santorum hangs around because Santorum is again broke."

Promise Santorum the Veep spot to get him out at a crucial time. Win-win.

I watched some short vids of Santorum on youtube, and he seems to be a pretty down-to-earth and humble guy. I had gone to youtube thinking I'd find evidence of sanctimoniousness.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I think this is the first time Shiloh witnessed a Presidential primary.

shiloh said...

My buddy :D Hoosier Daddy chimes in w/another winger non-sequitur.

take care

JohnJ said...

“You will float on, half-asleep and into your polling place where you will make your mark next to the name Barack Obama.”

Cynical nonsense.

With a few breaks, a well-run campaign, and unemployment over 8%...Romney wins.

Chuck66 said...

I love his opinions and knowledge, but I fear the timebomb that Newt is.

If he does get the nomination.....he needs to tone down the commentary, and instead restate everything in a positive way, using facts. He knows everything about everything. But needs to use that knowledge to convence people that he is on their side and wants to make their lives better.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... Obama cannot risk such debates because he would be embarrassed by his lack of specific knowledge..."

Would he? He's demonstrated an astounding display of ignorance and outright stupidity in the last three years and still believes he's the smartest guy in the room.

Lem said...

He [Newt] pursued Clinton while having an affair and lecturing about moral leadership.

I have no memory of that.. perhaps you can direct us to a page or video in the transcript?

Chuck66 said...

It doesn't seem that long ago...when Algore came across as an arrogant jerk. If he was nicer, or didn't piss off Tennesse with his gun stance, or we didn't have that picture federal agents, with guns pointed, grabing little Eleon Gonzalas from his family, Al would have won.

Chuck66 said...

Perhaps a hard run by Newt, will force Romney to move to the right, both in the election, and in office (if he were to win).

Maguro said...

I saw some analysis the other day - can't remember where - that said Newt's "master debater" advantage over Obama was overrated since Newt basically scores in debates by attacking the media and delivering well-phrased conservative talking points. The Republican base loves that stuff, but it won't necessarily impress swing voters in a general election campaign. And as Althouse notes, Gingrich's abrasive personality could be a big problem when he's debating Obama.

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

It'll be another Pickett's brigade charge. Sooner or later he's got to win one of those things.

Beldar said...

This is a silly post.

deborah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck66 said...

Obama-Gringrich debates......live and unscripted. Make them real debates, not pre-rehearsed answers.

Newt would destroy Mr Mom Jeans. Hope and Change won't fly this time around. Lets debate what occured, good and bad, over the past 4 years and what each thinks should happen in the next 4 years.

I would like to see Obama defend forcing Catholic hospitals having to chose between violating their religious beliefs, or not serving non-Catholics.

GMay said...

Looks like Old Dad nailed it farther upthread. A tad on the optimistic side, but pretty close.

Those of you who think Mitt Romney is going to be significantly different that Obama are in denial. Not that any of the other candidates are any better, but at this point it's all just about cheering for your team when it has no hope of reaching the playoffs.

Writ Small said...

I have no memory of that.. perhaps you can direct us to a page or video in the transcript?

I didn't think Newt had done that either, but if you watch the ABC hit piece interview with mistress one / wife two, they showed a clip of it.

shiloh said...

"Pickett's brigade charge."

From Newt to the Civil War ~ How very appropriate as the only way Gingrich can win is by a Sherman scorched earth surge thru GA er mittens er America.

Indeed! :-P

Dante said...

Seriously, you are going to put Newt's experience working with administrations that have created jobs against MO and BO Jimmy Carter style stagnation with inflation around the corner?

I find that difficult to believe.

Here is what will happen if Newt is the nominee. He won't have a billion dollars of campaign money. But as is evidenced by the debates, he won't need it. He will make Obama look foolish, and that powerful Obama voice will start ringing hollow. Newt will paint a very bleak future with Obama, and win independents. Gingrich will help with the house and Senate as I've suggested before.

If Romney wins, as Ann says, Obama wins the debates because no one cares about Republicanism, and people will simply be confused by his explanation that government run health care is good so long as it is run by the states. Obama $ beat Romney $. Romney will lose. Seriously, the press is only now trying out some attacks on Romney to see how it affects the his popularity in the polls.

Romney can't win. Newt has a chance, and will help the House and Senate.

deborah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dante said...

And to compare Newt with that bumbling fool Al Gore is ridiculous.

Obama is not a sympathetic figure to most people anymore, and certainly is no underdog.

Lem said...

I had gone to youtube thinking I'd find evidence of sanctimoniousness.

Nice catch Deb.. as you might know from an earlier post today.. guys usually stick to the antonym of sancti.. what you said.

LilEvie said...

Step one: Romney goes aggressive and demands Newt release the supporting documents for the ethics investigation that resulted in a $300,000 fine, and demands the Freddie Mac contract as well. And hopefully remembers Newt's petulant resignation the day after he was re-elected.

Step two: half the votes for Florida already cast. Romney wins, then wins big in Michigan, the no-newt-on-the-ballot states, and super Tuesday.

Ann are you a glutton for punishment? Half awake they pull the lever for BO? How about all the voters who have a family member out of work, are they asleep? This is the year of the angry partisans, on both sides, ginned up by the media.

It's still the economy, stupid.

Lem said...

This is a silly post.

Is it silly to put all our eggs on a debate basket?

deborah said...

"On the other hand, Gingrich can challenge Obama every day to such debates with his punch line "Obama can bring a teleprompter and I will bring knowledge,"

Going negative and snide would be Newt's undoing.

DaveW said...

Manbearpig won a majority, despite his boorish behavior. He only lost in the electoral race, and that notably because he lost his home state.

I don't think it makes much sense to predict what an election between Gingrich and Obama would look like. The economy is in the toilet and not likely to rebound any time soon. And I think people are beginning to tire of Obama's grandiosity, as well as his underhanded campaign. Furthermore, Gingrich isn't going to have to defend Romneycare and he's already demonstarted he can go after that with a vengence.

I don't really get the 'grandiosity' thing about Gingrich. This is a big, rich (well, we used to be anyway) country that does grand things. The Panama Canal. The Hoover dam. I don't see anything wrong with big ideas.

If Obama dodges debates with Gingrich it would be the first time in my lifetime such a thing has happened, at least as far as I can recall. If he does that people in the middle aren't going to like it. And if he does debate Gingrich, and if Gingrich can be disciplined in such debates, Gingrich will wipe the floor with him. All the things the media refuses to report will be dragged out, thrown in Obama's face, and he's be forced to attempt to defend them - without a teleprompter.

I don't see a Gingrich-Obama election fight as a sure win for Obama at all. The chips will fall where they may, but I don't see this as the slam dunk almost literally everyone in the blogosphere seems to think it is.

GMay said...

And the Florida economy is tanking hard right now. Whichever Republican comes in here talking about the economy in a away that resonates and makes sense will win Florida.

No other issue will matter down here.

Chuck66 said...

NRO had an item recently about Clinton and Newt. Those two had worked out a Paul Ryan style solution to solve the issues with the massive unfunded entitlements liability. Circa 1998. But then Clinton's scandel and impeachment came up. Bill C had to renege on it as if he would have gone forward with the plan, the hard left would not have supported Clinton in the impeachment tbing.

So Bill Clinton's weinie is responsible for our current $100 trillion unfunded liability.

Hoosier Daddy said...

".. He will make Obama look foolish,.."

Obama does that every time he opens his mouth. The key is nominating a likeable candidate. Newt is an asshole.

Look at 2004 when Bush was ripe for regime change and the idiot Democrats nominated Lurch. He was a patently unlikable sanctamonious asshole and lost to Dubya. How the hell do you lose to a guy like Dubya? Nominate an unlikable asshole. How do you lose to Obama? Nominate Newt.

Lem said...

But you, the American voters, the majority of you. You will feel something that you won't ever need to subject to a process of rational judgment. You will float on, half-asleep and into your polling place where you will make your mark next to the name Barack Obama.

Whatever happened to the fooled me once shame..

Shame Shame Shame..

Hey.. as my president would say.. whats happening at recall central..
a general election barometer.. maybe?

edutcher said...

Ann Althouse said...

Look, it will be 2 low-key stammerers

And who, besides GodZero, is the other stammerer?

Not Milton and not Newt.

Milton's pretty articulate just about all of the time, but POTUS can't live without TOTUS.

You will float on, half-asleep and into your polling place where you will make your mark next to the name Barack Obama.

What, how Newt lost me?

Hate to tell you, but Americans will look at the price of gas and groceries and those without a job or those in something that only puts food on the table barely will remember how long it's been since they had a real paycheck and vote ABO.

PS Shiloh doesn't mock anybody but himself.

Jay Retread said...

I think Newt "Rusty Hanger" Gingrich is the best representive of the nutjob party. I would prefer Obamalite Romney though.

Chuck66 said...

Hoosier Dad, correct. Remember how Bob Dole came across as cranky and old in 1996? After the election, he reverted back to his charming self. Much more likable. And Ronald Reagan, one of the things that attracted people to him, was Reagans postive optimism.

If Newt wants to use his intelligence and wits, he needs to do it in a good way, not a belittling way. Use the facts on what has happened in the past, and then say "so we can use this experience to do xxxxx over the next 4 years, which will improve everyones lives".

shiloh said...

Another shout out from edutcher as he's still payin' attention ~ shocking!

Ann Althouse said...

"Manbearpig won a majority, despite his boorish behavior. He only lost in the electoral race, and that notably because he lost his home state."

True, but he should have won easily, after Clinton.

He couldn't even win his home state. That was pathetic.

Later, he tried to come back and run again. He got nowhere.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... I think Newt "Rusty Hanger" Gingrich is the best representive of the nutjob party..."

Well your side can proudly claim Obama as representative of the Unemployed and Foodstamp Party.

MayBee said...

The idea that we will chose a president based on how he may perform at theoretical debates just distresses me.

Romney is not incredibly conservative, but he is incredibly competent. That's what I crave.

Newt can use his SC win as evidence that he needs a good time slot at the convention, and then deliver a real barn-burner.

Chuck66 said...

AA, people say Media Bias caused Algore to lose his home state. He thought that only right wing eccentric weirdos liked guns, because that is what you saw on TV. It was "the NRA" or "the powerful gun lobby" blocking gun control.

He had no idea that many many normal people supported the 2nd amendment. Hence he lost Tennessee, but not by a ridiculas spread

Republican George W. Bush 1,061,949 51.15% 11
Democratic Al Gore 981,720 47.28%

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... He couldn't even win his home state. That was pathetic..."

No shit. If he could have at least carried the stayed he represented in the Senate we wouldn't have been examing pregnant chads.

shiloh said...

As Althouse says, Gore was pretty lame ie almost as uncomfortable in his own skin as mittens, but not quite. The softball tax question asked to Romney, which he had (6) years to prepare for and still hemmed and hawed like a clueless hyena.

Apologies to hyenas ...

sleepless nights said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Meade said...

Irene said...
A Gingrich nomination seals an Obama victory. Gingrich can't win the middle.

If I've lost Irene, I've lost Middle America.

garage mahal said...

Shaping up to be a great Republican year! Can't wait to hear more great ideas from the Idea Factory - like employing 9 yr olds as janitors to clean toilets. Visionary!

write_effort said...

If Gingrich wins significantly in evangelical SC will the right shut up about how same-sex marriage damages the sanctity of male-female marriage?

Seven Machos said...

I'm not the first person to notice this, but there is some psychological thing that happens in the United States where the person who comes in second in the federal presidential election becomes viewed as this total loser for awhile (a really long while if it's Al Gore, who lost a tie, so the phenomenon is inverse).

I don't think it's fair to compare any of the Republican candidates to any previous losers for this reason.

I do think there is no question that Gingrich will get stomped. I don't even know one thing Gingrich stands for, other than this goofy idea of making catty, insulting jibes that certain irrational conservatives love these days.

MayBee said...

If Obama dodges debates with Gingrich it would be the first time in my lifetime such a thing has happened, at least as far as I can recall

In the last election, Obama floated all kinds of plans to have frequent debates with McCain. In the end, I think he finally agreed to three.

Three debates seems about standard in the Presidential election. Can three debates win an election?

What I really look forward to is the VP debate. Will Obama let Biden do one?

cassandra lite said...

Not that I wouldn't want to see Newt go againt Obama in a debate.

I sometimes ask myself whether seeing Newt cleaning Obama's clock in a debate is worth another Obama term...and I honestly can't decide.

Chuck66 said...

"....like employing 9 yr olds as janitors to clean toilets. Visionary!"

Actually if you hear his full quote, it really makes sense. Learning job skills instead of food stamps.

I started delivering newspapers at age 9 (or was it 8?). Was mowing lawns by age 13. I think learning how to work and getting job skills should start young.

shiloh said...

garage

9 ~ 9 ~ 9 and btw, HC didn't sexually harass women or have a long affair w/a kept woman yada yada yada.

Every time Cain was asked about 999 his usual answer ~ "I have no idea."

Fun times indeed!

And what's great about HC is he won't go away lol. Cheating on your wife candidates being the new norm in the Rep party. :D

Newt! Newt! Newt!

MayBee said...

The other thing is-- Mitt has been really smart in not attacking Ron Paul. If he can keep a good relationship with him,that will help the youth vote a lot.

cassandra lite said...

What I really look forward to is the VP debate. Will Obama let Biden do one?

Correction: Will he let Hillary do one...against Rubio.

Seven Machos said...

I sometimes ask myself whether seeing Newt cleaning Obama's clock in a debate is worth another Obama term

This is exactly what I am talking about. A lot of people feel this way for whatever ridiculous reason.

It's irrational and stupid. You people are like Bender in The Breakfast Club. Yeah, you really got Assistant Principal Vernon. Great insult! Except now you have Saturday detention all day with President Obama for the next four years. And Claire isn't actually going to have sex with you, either.

Morons.

Frankns said...

"You will float on, half-asleep and into your polling place where you will make your mark next to the name Barack Obama."

Bingo.

Worse, the nanny-media will remind us again and again of the President's "luminary" qualities ... his "strength" in the face of "adversity," his "coolness." Don't kid yourself, this campaign will be all about style over substance ... the style of "who's in and who's out." It will be the school-yard clique politics of the hip kids versus those on the outs who don't hold the "correct" opinions.

Watch the clip of Juan Williams and Newt on the "NY janitor question." Juan fairly gloats with in-crowd superiority.

In that kind of contest, Mitt will go down like the Titanic. There's no there ... there. No substance, no reality.

Ralph L said...

Promise Santorum the Veep spot to get him out at a crucial time
Just slightly illegal, but I'm sure it happens all the time.

Women and the media will label Newt a Big Meanie if he goes after Obama.

EDH said...

Likely reasons if Newt does not win South Carolina...

Moderate Republicans and social conservatives, especially females, both having a problem with him.

Chuck66 said...

Powerline has an item about Iowa Democrat party (not a Democrat, but the actual party) trying to steal the Republican sec'y of state's identity in an effort to create a fake scandel about him.
This is like Watergate corruption.
This is what they are doing to get back that office, so they can then use it to win elections.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/01/not-just-a-democrat-dirty-trick-but-a-crime.php

Lem said...

Obamas disaster as president is so monumentally complete it has even marred/cowed our quest for his replacement.

I don't know who else to blame..

Certainly not our own mixed bag less than candidates ;)

rhhardin said...

Where would we be without douchebags!

For one thing, it would be harder to bleed the brakes on an airplane.

Indigo Red said...

I'm more than a little bit disturbed that so many Republicans want Gingrich to win the nomination only so they can see him in a debate match-up with Obama. The future is much, much bigger than a series of play-off debates that provides some thrills for the moment. A series of debates will only allow the media to portray Obama as the downtrodden, overworked field hand with Gingrich as a bullying overseer.

edutcher said...

Lem said...

Obamas disaster as president is so monumentally complete it has even marred/cowed our quest for his replacement.

I don't know who else to blame..


The '06 and '08 losses in Congress and State Houses thinned the field.

The Demos are having the same problem. I mean, look at the slugs they've had the last 4 elections. And their losses in '10 will make it worse.

Had those 7 million "Conservatives" who stayed home voted Republican and the 1% of the electorate who voted for Bob Barr done the same, all our little trolls would be bitching about how the economy perked up because President McCain coddled the rich and how mean he's been to the Moslem crazies.

write_effort said...

If Gingrich wins significantly in evangelical SC will the right shut up about how same-sex marriage damages the sanctity of male-female marriage?

No.

36fsfiend said...

"All Obama will need to do is stand his ground and be the normal person, and Gingrich will look like a jackass."

Gingrich is a jackass.

Seven Machos said...

Ed -- I disagree about the economy. The one benefit of losing in 2008 was that the economy was going to suck for at least a couple years no matter what. No president can undo a massive worldwide credit crunch.

Seven Machos said...

One more thing and I'll stop: you people -- whoever you are -- who support Gingrich: are you 12? Don't you remember in 1996 how reviled Gingrich was? And don't you see how unethical he was?

Whatever Romney's faults -- and they may be many -- he's the only viable human being running. Santorum is against free trade and lost his last election by 20 points. Paul is the world's only libertarian against free trade and he put out racist newsletters. Gingrich is scum and everybody hates him.

Be reasonable, people. Be thoughtful. Think like a strategist, not some emotional fish.

shiloh said...

"I don't know who else to blame.."

Not to worry as whining is what conservatives do best. You'll be just fine! :D

Lem said...

Speaking of douchebags..

Out of all the people Jesus could have have popped in for dinner he chose Zacchaeus.

Let that be a lesson there somewhere.

write_effort said...

edutcher: No

Like Gingrich's wives, a relationship with Newt is going to cost the right more than it bargained for. Enticed by a few debate night thrills. And there was Rick waiting with open arms...

garage mahal said...

Be reasonable, people. Be thoughtful. Think like a strategist, not some emotional fish.

Then we'd miss some real red meat flying to quench the thirst of the Coliseum looking for a good goring. Like "ObamaCare is fundamentally and radically the single worst thing that's ever happened..... since Nazi concentration camps!".

Take THAT Barry!

ricpic said...

Althouse sees Obama as "a nice man." Of course she does, she's totally safe. But millions who are vulnerable and hurting see him as what he is, a jackal. What a shocker it's going to be to the beautiful people when Obama gets buried come November.

deborah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bart DePalma said...

BD: "This gives Gingrich the ability to become the only virtual conservative on TV and radio even if Santorum hangs around because Santorum is again broke."

deborah said... Promise Santorum the Veep spot to get him out at a crucial time. Win-win. I watched some short vids of Santorum on youtube, and he seems to be a pretty down-to-earth and humble guy. I had gone to youtube thinking I'd find evidence of sanctimoniousness.


I agree completely and suggested as much on the Tea Party social networks last week after the first SC debate. Gingrich did not exactly start off on the right foot in that direction, though, by publicly demanding that Perry and Santorum get out of the race.

Lem said...

A link would e nice garage..

I'm not saying its not accurate ..

I just have.. worry? about whether you should subject yourself to scrape a suspected bottom of the barrel like that.

Cornroaster said...

I do, however, think Gingrich will lose to Obama. He's got... whatever the antonym of "charisma" is.

The "Yuck" factor. :-(

deborah said...

"Be reasonable, people. Be thoughtful. Think like a strategist, not some emotional fish."

For my part, I'm not supporting Gingrich here, I'm gaming out(thinking like a strategist) who has the best chance, with caveats, to beat Obama.

Bart DePalma said...

Hoosier Daddy said... "The key is nominating a likeable candidate. Newt is an asshole."

Actually, it is necessary rather than optional to have a candidate who will run on full throated conservatism and specifically on reversing Obama's programs to win a mandate to reverse them.

No mandate and the surviving Senate Dems will be in a mood to filibuster.

We need to recreate 1980 and 1994.

Carnifex said...

And what would voting for Romney get anybody? What position has he taken that is in anyway different from Obozo when he was governor?

I don't like Newt by a lot, but he won't actively try to destroy the country like Obozo has done. No one, no pole-smoking O'bot can point to one accomplishment that Godzero has that has forwarded this country.

You morons will point to the Bin Laden killing, but do you really think this limp wristed loser had anything beyond watching it on tv like a movie, with that operation? Really? Truly?? When he send hundreds of guns to Mexican drug lords?

Does the lessening of visa standards for foreigner...excuse me, future democrat voters not alarm anyone? Isn't that one of the faults that the 9/11 commission noted?

Here's how the election will go down. Romney will not win the nomination outright. The base loathes him. Period, dot, end of sentence.

The base also loathes Newt but he has the effing balls to call out the media, when all the other candidates play like the media is actually fair and balanced. That gets him a lot of points with the base which is tired of the bullshit.

Enough to get a brokered convention by the skin of his teeth.

That's were the Paulbots will come into their own. Paulbots have been infiltrating the republican machine for 8 years now. After the first vote of the brokered convention, those votes are free to go where ever they want, which gives Paul a lot of power to be kingmaker.

So you have a three way stand-off like in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". Gingrich having the base voters, Romney having the elite backing, and Paul being the wildcard. Whichever one concedes to Pauls' demands will be the nominee.

The thing is, I can't see Paul and Romney co-existing together. Like oil and water, cats and dogs, Romney is a creature of big finance, and that's Pauls' "big thing". Newt will cut a deal to if not axe the Fed, at least curtail it, he gets Pauls' delegates, and wins the nomination.

Or the elites in the republican party pulls shennanigans and gives Romney the outright nomination, then you'll see a third party Paul candidacy.

As far as Trump being third party, that might happen if the first scenario plays out. That's because Trump is a democrat "Judas Goat" used to split off the more moderate republican, and most of the independent vote. These people are easily fooled because they don't pay attention. Trump has been a democrat for decades, giving millions to them. He wants to be part of the crony capitalism money trough. Evidence can be had by looking at who is "backing" him with their organization. An organization founded and funded by...wait for it...George Soros!

And that's why I have little hope for our country surviving much longer.

Obozo could look at the polls, realize he's going to loose, and turn loose his fifth columnist to start rioting, declare martial law, and use his brown shirts in homeland security to "quash" any unrest. And he'll have to confiscate all guns for public safety, using the foreign troops that happen to be scattered across the country under the wonderful auspices of the UN.(Fast and Furious Part Duex)

Or Obozo will win in a squeeker, in which case he continues to dismantle the country.

Or Obozo will loose in a squeeker, where we get the "arranging deck chairs" under Romney/Gingrich. Spending more money that we don't have until we can't spend anymore, and the government collapses under its own incompetence.

Lem said...

Of course if you [garage] found that quote here.. it was either posted before the new commenting regime.. or.. it managed to scape the gaze of the goodfaithers.. in which case I'm going to go ahead and take it upon myself to thank you on my own behalf.

I'm such a grandiose.

Dante said...

Steve Machos: Who can call an election? No one. I just got done discussing Gingrich vs. Romney, and here is the upshot:

The Middle: Romney isn't hated, Gingrich is.
The Debates: Gingrich is amazing, whether or not that will translates to the middle is unknown.
The Press: They are both going to get it, though Gingrich seems to be able to control them better.
Money: Yes, Romney has it, but what help has it been? Obama has as much or more.
Issues: Obama is far more exposed on Health care with Gingrich than Romney.
Polls: Gingrich is down now, but he has already had the negative press. The press hasn't even begun to tear down Romney for his Mormonism, Wealth, Bain Capital, and hypocritical stance on Health care.
Experience: Like it or not, Newt actually got some things done. In my view, people become hated when they change things: Newt changed a lot. People want change.
Women: Obama vs. Romney, hard to say, they are both good looking but Obama sounds better. Gingrich is a Newt for sure, so he loses there.

Writ Small said...

Ann makes a good point about a Gingrich / Obama debate. I cheered Newt along with the audience as he put a hurt on John King and Juan Williams, but I'm a conservative.

Try this test. Find some moderates you know and ask them what they thought of Newt's smackdowns. The few I spoke with said it reinforced what they already didn't like about the man.

garage mahal said...

Lem,
I was envisioning that quote from Gingrich.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

This will all come down to how the white women vote and that is not good. Those social scientists who took all that acid in the sixties, saw God, and realized that millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of religion is all wrong, completely screwed us.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"On the other hand, Gingrich can challenge Obama every day to such debates with his punch line "Obama can bring a teleprompter and I will bring knowledge,"

Going negative and snide would be Newt's undoing.

Agreed.

If Obama refuses to debate Newt (assuming he is the rep candidate) the meme should be that the American Public deserves the chance to see both candidates side by side and to be able to compare the platforms and policies.

To do anything else is a disservice to the public.

Shame Obama into it. Make people wonder WHY he won't debate.

Let other people do the wondering out loud and Newt keeps to the high road by continually and politely, without that stupid smirk he can sometimes get on his face, stress that the public DESERVES this opportunity.

@ Deb

I also think that it could very well be a Gingrich/Santorum ticket. They seem to be playing nicey nice with each other lately and Santorum would bring on the moral issues conservatives that might not be attracted to Newt.

David said...

According to Althouse, we are doomed to 4 more years of Obama.

I blame Congress.

And Gov. Walker.

David said...

By the way, Newt is not going to win.

shiloh said...

"We need to recreate 1980 and 1994."

Bartles, as I repeatedly reminded you "over yonder" :) Dutch is still dead and Newt is persona non grata to most rational Americans.

But no one will ever accuse you of being wishy/washy lol like both mittens and Newt.

As always, keep hope alive!

btw, Super Pacs aside, Newt is not a good fund raiser so what makes you think that will change if he gets the nomination, especially since most Rep high brow donors think he has no chance of winning.

ok, $$$ will probably be the least of Gingrich's many political problems.

edutcher said...

Seven Machos said...

Ed -- I disagree about the economy. The one benefit of losing in 2008 was that the economy was going to suck for at least a couple years no matter what. No president can undo a massive worldwide credit crunch.

'12 is largely dependent on Barry's policies (not all, but mostly), which is why all the trolls and FUD merchants are out. Prices are up in the last year or so, this isn't a chronic thing.

A better POTUS than Zero, even on the Demo side (and no, I don't mean Hillary), and things might not have been swell at this point, but we wouldn't be looking at the disaster we face and the current Administration might have been looking at a Reaganesque upswing.

So I agree, but it's what you do with what you've got.

PS Gallup, who have been very kind to GodZero, is reporting he's got the second worst third year end rating in modern times, only Carter exceeds him.

gadfly said...

Good-old-family-man but Libertarian-dispising Rick Santorum admitted in the last debate that he is incapable of competing with Newt. He spent the entire evening sniping at all the other candidates and was unable to raise his own arguments above the level of back-biting. I do not remember him smiling even once.

Mittens delivered the same prepared monotone answers that he always does but he is unconvincing about whether he even has a clue as to how a conservative thinks and acts. He cannot even decide a simple thing like when to release his tax returns, if ever. No, he is not a shoo-in to beat the Obaminator.

As someone on another blog wrote, Ron Paul continues to circle Mars. His only chance is to buy a wig and employ his shrill voice to impersonate an LGBT in order to capture the crossover vote.

As for Newt, he will win any and all debates. Those who dislike him will call him an adulterer, but he at least marries his mistresses -- unlike Clinton, Kennedy, Eisenhower, FDR, Harding, Wilson, Cleveland, Jefferson, Adams and even Hamilton.

As for Newt's being drummed out of Congress for his illegal escapades, a review of the background of those times indicates that just might be a biased overstatement. In the end, the IRS found no violations.

From this point on, beating Romney, especially in Florida, will take some strengthening of Newt's campaign organization, so his only hope is the coalescing of TP organizations and some big contributions.

shiloh said...

edutcher

If only Reps had a Reagan on the horizon, but as Bush41 said so eloquently, not gonna happen!

Reagan was pretty much the perfect Rep candidate ie hell he was a former Dem and head of SAG, straight out of central casting soooo he appealed to most everyone ...

and yet

and yet

he received 50.75% in 1980 and didn't close the deal until the final weekend when the polls turned his way. All of Carter's baggage notwithstanding.

But again, Dutch is dead and reincarnation is not a likely prospect ...

take care

NotquiteunBuckley said...

The internet will make conservatives staunch. Angry, without shame.

The attacks will help Newt early, hurt him at some point, and we will all say, win or lose, Newt's composure during the general election campaign cost or gained him the White House.

I bet the former.

shiloh said...

"but he at least marries his mistresses -- unlike Clinton, Kennedy, Eisenhower, FDR, Harding, Wilson, Cleveland, Jefferson, Adams and even Hamilton."

Damned w/faint praise lol.

Too funny!

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Um...

I bet the latter.

Newt will win the White House, balance the budget before he leaves, return the bust of Churchill to the White House, and piss off many of his former, liberalish Republican peers.

edutcher said...

Ah, since when did I say Ron was on the horizon, or even wish he was?

I made a hypothetical case equally applicable to a Republican or competent (and with the Demos, we have to stress competent) Democrat incumbent.

And, right about now, it's the Demos who need a Ron.

And all they've got is Zero.

As I say, when shiloh has nothing to say, he always comes out and says it.

shiloh said...

NotquiteunBuckley has trouble making up his mind, much like mittens and Newt! :D

deborah said...

DBQ, you came in the nick of time. There have been questions raised here about Newt's voting appeal to women.

I think the projection of competence may appeal to some. Maybe single moms with money problems, no-nonsense women, etc.

Bart DePalma said...

Shiloh:

1980 and 1994 were conservative rebellions which created mandates. Reagan and Gingrich recognized and rode, but did not create those rebellions.

Obama has overreached to the left and pretty much trashed any economic recovery. Any of the remaining GOP candidates will very likely win short of being found with a dead woman or a live boy.

If we are to reverse the Obama and to some extent the Dubya damage, the GOP candidate needs a mandate for change. That is what I am concerned with.

shiloh said...

And edutcher usually replies to my, as he says, nothingness lol.

take care

Lem said...

Lem,
I was envisioning that quote from Gingrich.


Are you saying you are in Newt's camp?

If I hear you correctly, Newt represents 4 years of red meat..

Face it garage, Obama has not given democrats much to cheer about.. other than a "small" stimulus and an Obamacare nobody knows whether it will survive Supremes scrutiny.

Wouldn't you rather return to the good old days, out of the WH.. The days of Bush blood for oil.. mission accomplished..

I dont know about you, but I missed those days.

Cedarford said...

Michael said...
Newt will ask the questions of Obama that the press will not. Win or lose it will be a great show. Never has Obama been publicly challenged as he will be should Newt become the candidate.


===========
Yeah,, just like Newt challenged Bubba to a battle of wits - and we all know how that turned out. Ending with his own conservative Republicans ousting him for lack of competence, rule by chaos, and a strong odor of bad ethics emenating from the jerkoff. BY the time of his ouster, he was the most disliked pol in America.

But lately conservatives have gone into serious no-nothingism. They don't want things fixed...they want a Rush or a Hannity or a Palin or a Newt to entertain them.

Each Party has their stupid...and while on the DEm side it is clueless liberals and unthinking blacks ....on the Republican side, it is people that deny evolution and think it is fine if Obama gets another 4 years just as long as in 3 hours of debate - a Newt or a Palin "zings" him a la Rush.

shiloh said...

Bart, Reagan's 1980 election did not regain Reps control of the House. In fact Reps lost seats in 1982. And yes, running against a pathetic Dem in 1984 Reagan had a landslide and again, Reps did not take control of the House, much like Nixon's landslide.

Indeed, go ahead Reps and nominate the most extreme conservative candidate in 2012 and see how that works out for 'ya.

>

Of course Bart, we have discussed all of this previously ad nauseam. :D

take care

Strelnikov said...

Well, you know all about that last part...

garage mahal said...

Those meddling OWS kidz didn't help matters for Republicans either. The nation was brought to near seasick inducing levels from the debt limit drama unfolding in the news. But the debt limit hike last week drew nary a peep.

cassandra lite said...

I sometimes ask myself whether seeing Newt cleaning Obama's clock in a debate is worth another Obama term

This is exactly what I am talking about. A lot of people feel this way for whatever ridiculous reason.

It's irrational and stupid...

Morons.


Maybe that's true. Or maybe, as we watch Hegel being played out on this grand stage, it's rational and smart to send out the actual antithesis rather than the the bot.

It's possible that after the debate, a larger number of people will no longer be able to tell themselves that Obama is brilliant. Once they accept that, it takes less to perceive that he really might be in over his head.

Then, too, if I were truly convinced that Romney wins head-to-head, I'd pull for him.

Lem said...

BY the time of his ouster, he was the most disliked pol in America.

If Nixon could make it back.. into the realm of respectability.. Newt can come back..

If Clinton.. only the second president ever to be impeached.. can command huge speaking fees..

Why cant Newt be president?

(if likability is THE criteria)

shiloh said...

Nixon didn't have any of Newt's many scandals plus he was v-p under Ike for (8) years.

Newt is no Nixon. btw, it was always amusing when conservatives would "try" to compare mama grizzly to Nixon ...

Writ Small said...

"it's rational and smart to send out the actual antithesis rather than the the bot. "

The antithesis of Obama is a former college professor full of big ideas, in love with the sound of his own voice, who inspires his base with soaring rhetoric, but who is nevertheless leadership challenged and has never operated successfully outside of goverment or made a really tough decision in the real world.

People thought the left was envious of the Tea Party. Face it. Newt is the Right's Obama.

Lem said...

But the debt limit hike last week drew nary a peep.

The republicans vowed to their god the polls.. the people said let Obama have the money..

Why would the republicans choose defeat again?

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

And edutcher usually replies to my, as he says, nothingness lol

No, just pointing out shiloh can't read.

Meade said...

Seven Machos is right - real conservatives should not behave like emotional fish. Real conservatives should be reasonable and rational.

Cedarford said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
"... I can't believe my party fucked up and nominated a candidate this corrupt and unlikeable to run against a president ripe to be pummeled..."

I know several Democrats that said the same thing in 2004.

==========================
The country really wanted to make Dubya a one-termer after he tried to be The American Churchill the Neocons praised him as - and royally bungled two wars.
Then Lurch rode to the rescue. He kept the Dems who were motivated to get rid of Dubya, but lost the moderates. Kerry was just too dishonorable and unlikable to vote for.

This time, in mid January, pollsters asked people who they had mostly positive thoughts about, and negative ones. And subtracted the negatives from the positives to get the "net likablity".

Obama - +5%
Romney - +7%
Ron Paul - +3%
Newt Gingrich - Minus 26%
Rick Santorum - Minus 7%

Lem said...

..real conservatives should not behave like emotional fish.

I've put off watching Fish Tale (2011).. maybe not for that very reason.. but not too dissimilar.

I dont know what I was thinking to even include that in the Netflix.

Ok I'm going to watch it now.. it probably stinks.. a fish with emotions.. no wonder Obama taps that.

shiloh said...

hmm, conservative:

cautious, moderate, tending to preserve the status quo

Synonyms:

bourgeois, controlled, conventional, die-hard, fearful, firm, fogyish, fuddy-duddy, guarded, hard hat, in a rut, inflexible, obstinate, old guard, old line, quiet, reactionary, redneck, right of center, sober, stable, steady, timid, traditional, unchangeable, unchanging, uncreative, undaring, unimaginative, unprogressive

Hopefully Meade is "reasonable and rational" and not emotional when he's deleting posts.

Synova said...

Obama never struck me as particularly nice. There were several instances where he was downright *nasty*, although "you're likable enough, Hillary." His jokes are often at other people's expense.

Also... McCain already tried to run a "nice" campaign and refused to attack the nice black fellow.

It didn't work.

John Stodder said...

Gingrich wins, sez Fox.

I have to say, I don't get it. Basically, Gingrich won a big sympathy vote. Boo hoo the media wasn't fair, vote for me! Hopefully just a spasm.

mesquito said...

FOX called it for Gingrich the second the polls closed.

The exit polls must be hair-curling.

I'm afraid the Romney campaign may be forced to go negative.

Mick said...

If things go as planned, the Usurper will not even be on many state ballots, and there will be mass realization as to his ineligibility. Minor v. Happersett will be firmly in front of We the people, which holds that Obama, a natural born British subject, of a British subject father, is not an eligible American natural born Citizen. As a matter of fact, there is a hearing on Jan 26 that Obama has been ordered to attend-- and bring lots of documents. Like I said, there will be hundreds of suits in the various states using contest of election/ contest of eligibility statutes. Media of course is silent, and so is the "law prof".

You mean the President has been ordered to appear at a hearing regarding his eligibility, and the "Law Prof" doesn't blog about it?

http://www.art2superpac.com/georgiaballot.html

shiloh said...

I'm afraid the Romney campaign may be forced to go negative.

Mittens' Super Pac already went negative in Iowa so not a problem.

mesquito said...

I was being sarcastic, Shiloh. But I'm pretty goddam subtle.

J said...

[Different J]

Is that how dumb blondes think and why a particular dumb blonde voted for Obama last time?

shiloh said...

mesquito

ok, no problem lol and shocking someone would go negative in a presidential campaign.

Negative ads aside, mittens better grow a backbone in the debates or Newt will bury him. But unfortunately it's not part of mittens personality.

Steve Koch said...

Obama is not going to debate Newt unless the debate is totally stacked in Obama's favor. Newt will be forced to agree to Obama's debate terms or there is no debate. Obama could easily just not agree to more than one debate.

Most likely, in a debate vs Obama, Newt will come across as the short, fat, old, nasty white guy attacking the calm, elegant, tall, slim black man.

Having said that, competition is good and Romney will either toughen up and figure out how to deal with Newt or he loses. Now is not the time for Mitt to be a country club Republican.

Newt won't win the general election vs Obama and polls show that he is, by far, the most disliked candidate between Obama, Mitt, and Newt among the general population.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bwaaaaa-aaaaa-ha-ha-ha--BWAAAAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!

Oh man,...wait:

BWAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!

Old Dad said...

"Newt won't win the general election vs Obama and polls show that he is, by far, the most disliked candidate between Obama, Mitt, and Newt among the general population."

Not in South Carolina.

shiloh said...

ok, Newt can be president of South Carolina as he and Nikki Haley team up to move for SC secession ...

shiloh said...

hmm, Nikki Haley endorsed mittens ~ Oops! lol

edutcher said...

Synova said...

Obama never struck me as particularly nice. There were several instances where he was downright *nasty*, although "you're likable enough, Hillary." His jokes are often at other people's expense.

Good point.

In all point of fact, GodZero is quite a punk, up close and personal, tough only when the Chi-town mob has his back, and even the media has noticed how testy he's gotten now that his Godhood is being called into question.

So I don't think it would be all that hard to look like the nice guy next to him.

EMD said...

Ma'am, you're full of shit.

Old Dad said...

hmm, shiloh posts adolescent internet cliche. Oops, er, uhmm, lol, rotflmao, abcdefg 11111ty111!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

This time, in mid January, pollsters asked people who they had mostly positive thoughts about, and negative ones. And subtracted the negatives from the positives to get the "net likablity".

Obama - +5%
Romney - +7%
Ron Paul - +3%
Newt Gingrich - Minus 26%
Rick Santorum - Minus 7%


Once again. We aren't out to elect Mr. Congeniality. The guy with the warmest personality. Most likely to fullfill all of your most metrosexual fantasies.

Obama has a high likability quotent. Margaret Thatcher probably would score low on the Miss Popularity scale. Whou do YOU want as a leader.

We need someone who will get in and take care of business. If it takes an unlikable prick to turn this country around....good.

Newt will ask the questions of Obama that the press will not

Not only will Newt ask the questions that the press will not, he will ask the ones that the milquetoast RINO's won't either.

Some one compared Gingrich to the Honey Badger.

Who do you want to stand up to the progressives that have been dismantling this country. The Honey Badger who don't give a shit or someone who will just play nice with the enemy.

Personally, I want the nasty ass honey badger.

This is do or die for our country. It isn't time to play nice.

I don't care about warm and cuddly.

I want fucking results!!!

Carnifex said...

@ Meade

"Seven Machos is right - real conservatives should not behave like emotional fish. Real conservatives should be reasonable and rational."

Shouldn't that admonition apply to all adults, like say, liberals too?

Personally, I don't expect a lot of clear thinking in anyone's future for at least 2 years.

And yes, many republicans would cut their nose off to spite their face. I myself am registered republican, but I vote conservative, not the same thing by far.

Seven Machos said...

Christ, DBQ. Look at the number and think about what it means. The unlikeable prick is never going to get elected. Gingrich won't change anything.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Seven

Probably not, but we are already so effing screwed up economically, politically, socially and foreign policy-wise, that we are not going to be able to fix the problems with the same old same old, good boy let's all get along attitude.

Romney will just halt the slide into the pit of despair just a little bit slower. Because he really won't change anything.

Romney is too much of a traditional politician to put himself on the line and he is incapable of thinking outside of the box.

If we are going to go to hell in a handbasket (and we are) I would rather it be sooner than later. Rip the Goddamned band-aid off!! Take the pain.

And do it while I'm still able to take care of myself :-)

GMay said...

Seven Machos said: "Christ, DBQ. Look at the number and think about what it means. The unlikeable prick is never going to get elected. Gingrich won't change anything."

Christ Machos, earlier in this thread you leveled the criticism at Newt that he didn't stand for anything. This after you paternalistically (and Meade condescendingly) trying to sell everyone on Romney? That rock solid man of exactly *what* principle again?

That's a fucking laughable argument.

I have to say, your arguments of "Newt is an asshole" aren't really coming across as shining examples of logic and rationality either.

Maybe when any of you Romneybots can sell me on exactly what you think Romney is going to do to substantially different than Obama, or if any of you can explain this magical thinking that Romney is The Only Man Capable™ with any other reason than this almost Obamaesque Hero Worship I'm seeing, then I might buy what you're selling.

Until then, spare the unfounded superiority.

cassandra lite said...

People thought the left was envious of the Tea Party. Face it. Newt is the Right's Obama.

Oh, come on. House minority whip who engineered the Republican House takeover v Obama who, uh, uh--well, never mind.

Newt is incredibly imperfect, but it's inarguable that he's not Obama's mirror image. Jefferson was wild and wacky, too, but had the good sense to let Madison dial him back to within a few zip codes of reality. Churchill also had his manic-depressive bouts. Not sayin' that Gingrich is necessarily either of those, but he's far more in their vein than the current prez. Plus, he knows how to say, "I fucked up."

I'm nauseatingly tired of reading polls that disapprove of Obama but add that, personally, Americans like him. Fuck that. I want someone who gets the big picture in a way that Obama doesn't and can't. Obama remains the product of his elite education, someone who hasn't rethought a single political/geopolitical position since the day it was formed.

Seven Machos said...

GMay -- In all that, you didn't bother to say what Gingrich stands for.

I will tell you. Gingrich stands for some yearning among conservatives to best Obama in a debate. Like some checkmate.

The man is hated and he stands for nothing other than opposing something. He is the embodiment of the "not your father's Oldsmobile" campaign, and just as ugly to average Americans as your typical Oldsmobile.

Gingrich would get slaughtered in the general election. So, he should not be the nominee.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Gingrich would get slaughtered in the general election. So, he should not be the nominee.

So? Go down fighting with the honey badger.

Because winning with the fluffy bunny wabbit and making no changes in the situation..... is losing.

edutcher said...

Have to disagree with DBQ, which I rarely do.

The idea that Romney would be timid about this isn't necessarily valid.

It just may be he sees the chance to go down in history and do what needs to be done, particularly if he has a strong Congress.

Someone made the point a couple of days ago that we base our estimation of him on what he did in the bluest of states with a Democrat legislature. The point was made that, even if he's a guy who goes with the flow, if the flow is Conservative, he'll go with it.

I know, optimism.

He'll at least be better than Zero, and may just want to redeem his father's name and his faith, which has had a rocky history in this country.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Ed.

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike Romney. He is a capable business man and I admire his ability to run and control a complex organization. I know he had big hurdles as Governor of Mass.

However, I am deeply disturbed that he can't even defend himself re: the Bain issue or forcefully stand up for himself regarding his taxes.

These issues and questions are not unexpected, yet, he seems unprepared as if he just NOW thought about these things. He should have answers and he should be FORCEFUL in his responses. Instead he is a waffle and hums and haws all over the place.

Now, I also don't expect Romney to be as quick as Gingrich and able to do a rapid fire well constructed debate rejoinder. Very few people can do that. It is a skill and a gift and sometimes a curse.

But..puleeeze....this is the big time and if Romney thinks or thought that this Bain issue, that his wealth level would not be an issue, then how in the HELL can he possibly be prepared for governing the US.

It is possible that Romney is better at hiding his "honey badgerness" than Newt. That is a disturbing thought in and of itself. He is a secret asshole.....like Obama. At least with Newt there is no secret :-)

EMD said...

Romney is too much of a traditional politician to put himself on the line and he is incapable of thinking outside of the box.


I think circumstance will drive Romney to preside differently.

Bender said...

I know he had big hurdles as Governor of Mass.

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- Romney's actual record in governing is off-limits and beyond critiquing because Massachusetts is a liberal state.

But tell me, who forced Romney to run for governor (and senator) in Massachusetts? Who forced Romney to make his home in one of the most leftist states in the country?

He did. Romney chose to live in and run in Massachusetts.

He's not native to Massachusetts. He's from Michigan. Why didn't he live in Michigan and run for governor of Michigan? If he is so awesome and such a great fixer of economies, why didn't he want to go help out that hell-hole of a economic state in Michigan? Michigan having a record of electing Republican governors, he would have won in a landslide if he had run there. So why make his home in liberal Massachusetts instead?

Romney only had big hurdles as governor in Massachusetts if he was a conservative. He is not. He was not. He never has been. He never will be.

And to the extent that Romney now mouths conservative platitudes, including now trying to steal "crony capitalism" from Sarah Palin, Romney will NEVER fight for conservative issues or conservatives themselves. He made the People's Republic of Massachusetts his home because he is, and always will be, a Massachusetts liberal.

edutcher said...

I realize what you're saying and I think it's the same problem Perry had. He thought he could walk in, proclaim he was the "jobs Governor", and sweep all before him.

Romney's people thought the same about his tenure at Bain. I agree he needs to explain what venture capital is to most people, but, from what I've read, Bain is what makes him a better man for the country now than Newt, so he ought to be able to turn this to his advantage.

This is where we find out if he can take the hit and come back, I agree.

But I think he wants this, more than we know; as I say, for his father, as well as himself. He's probably a bit tired right now and maybe needs a day off to get his wind back. Somehow, I think that's as much at the root of this as anything.

We'll see.

deborah said...

James Carville just said on CNN, 'what you know about Newt now is very different than what you'll know in ten days, there's a lot of stuff out there haw haw haw' (paraphrase)

GMay said...

"GMay -- In all that, you didn't bother to say what Gingrich stands for."

Because that wasn't my point. I've even said, in this very thread I believe, that I'm not a Gingrich fan. If I didn't, consider it said. But I'm not sold on Romney either because he stands for exactly what Gingrich stands for as far as anyone knows. That was the point. Why trot out that argument when it applies to both candidates (and Mitt actually has the bigger reputation for it).

It's just a dumb argument.

I will tell you. Gingrich stands for some yearning among conservatives to best Obama in a debate. Like some checkmate.

Good. Because Romney has some sort of mystical characteristic that will put him over the top that's become a bit hyperinflated, but no more clearly defined. At least watching Obama get made a fool of would be worth it. There is no guarantee, despite all the magical thinking here, that Romney isn't going to be made a fool of AND lose the election.

"The man is hated and he stands for nothing other than opposing something. He is the embodiment of the "not your father's Oldsmobile" campaign, and just as ugly to average Americans as your typical Oldsmobile."

Bullshit. Americans obviously didn't hate Barack Obama and that was precisely his campaign. Try a different sales pitch.

"Gingrich would get slaughtered in the general election. So, he should not be the nominee."

So we should nominate a guy who's at least guaranteed not to get slaughtered? Because that's about as close to a guarantee you're going to get.

But let's say Romney wins. Then what? No one knows. But at least you can say our side "won". This is just political junkie masturbation at this point because no one has the first clue as to where Romney wants to take anything. Hell, I'm not sure anyone has the ability to right the ship at this point, but I'm pretty sure it isn't Captain Panderer.

Not saying I want Newt here, but simply saying the guy's an "asshole" doesn't really cut it. If that's the make it or break it criterion for the highest office of our Republic, then we're truly boned.

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