December 14, 2011

The impossible task of verifying signatures on the Walker recall petitions.

WISN reports that the Government Accountability Board will only check the addresses and dates that accompany the signatures. It will "flag" names that seem suspicious — e.g. Mickey Mouse — but "will not strike them without challenge." To initiate a recall election, there will need to be 540,208 valid signatures, so significantly more than that will probably be submitted.
The GAB plans to hire about 50 temporary workers to conduct the review of what it expects could be up to 1.5 million signatures.

Judge Thomas Barland, a GAB board member, asked what was being done to prevent the temporary workers being hired to review the petitions from attempting to sabotage one side or the other. All people hired will be subject to the same background check that GAB staff are to ensure they don't have a partisan background, Buerger said.
There are a lot of partisan citizens around here. I assume they don't all have a "partisan background," whatever that means.
The goal is to have the petition review done in public, but because where that will be done hasn't been determined, it's not yet known how broad the access will be, Buerger said.  Electronic copies of all the petitions submitted will be available upon request, he said.

The board plans to ask a court for an extension of 60 days, instead of just 31 days, to finish its review. Challenges must be made within 10 days after copies of the petitions are given to the targeted office holders, but an extension to that is also expected to be sought.
So the burden is on the target of the recall to find the duplicate signatures and phony names, for maybe over a million signatures, on a tight deadline! By "electronic copies," I assume they mean scans of the handwritten signatures. I want typed-out names, so you can use a computer to do targeted searches. I mean, I'd like to know if anyone signed my name and address, but how would I check? Read the handwriting on all of the pages?
The Republican Party and Walker's campaign have started their own website asking for people to submit information about signatures that ought to be disqualified, including multiple signatures.
Walker and those targeted are at a disadvantage since they can't see the signatures collected until after they are submitted, while circulators can weed out problems before they are submitted.
What a mess! I hope they are planning to get the signatures quickly typed up and presented on a webpage so that everyone who wants to check names can do so. I am especially concerned about the appropriation of names of people (like me) who did not sign. I am genuinely afraid of fraud and don't think we have anything close to decent safeguard in place.

ADDED: Instapundit says:
You know, events in Wisconsin have made me wonder if — despite its longstanding reputation for “good government” civil society there is basically a sham, an overlay on a corrupt one-party machine. One expects this sort of thing in Illinois, but Wisconsin?

125 comments:

tim in vermont said...

This is what democracy looks like!

T J Sawyer said...

Well, I'm glad that they don't just arbitrarily throw out the "Adolph Hitler"s and "Donald Duck"s.

There is a reason I sometimes use T J Sawyer and not Tom Saweyer.

campy said...

I am genuinely afraid of fraud and don't think we have anything close to decent safeguard in place.

Worry not! Lefties never commit election fraud!

Scott M said...

Maybe they should get the people in Indiana involved. Those Hoosiers seem to be quite apt at it lately.

Jay said...

and don't think we have anything close to decent safeguard in place.

Which is exactly what the Democrats want, and take advantage of.

This "verification" process is silly as a judge will simply rule on the side of caution and allow all of the signatures.

caseym54 said...

Assuming that all petitions are digitized, it isn't that hard of a computer problem to verify that address are real, that addresses don't match and that signature don't match. What is a problem is bogus names, unless you also have the voter database handy. I would imagine that privacy concerns will bar Walker's people from access to that.

garage mahal said...

It's the identical process used last summer when Republicans were petitioning to recall Democrats. I wonder what's changed now?

denmotherblog said...

I am genuinely afraid of fraud...

RACIST!

purplepenquin said...

This is the same system that has been used for any/all petitions that are needed for elections. If it has been successfully accomplished before, then why is it considered "impossible" now?


What has changed tho is that thugs (paid by the GOP?) are engaging in threats and physical attacks against people who are collecting signatures:

http://tinyurl.com/7qu4oky
http://tinyurl.com/79w837e
http://tinyurl.com/7qef42c
http://tinyurl.com/cffzumw
http://tinyurl.com/6tk9sxk



I'm afraid that the violence will continue to increase as the Walker supporters become even more desperate in their attempts to keep him in power.

Amartel said...

If the government establishes a mechanism for recalling an elected official, should it not also establish an effective and fair method of verifying the results of that mechanism? How can the government justify the "hands-off"/we're only going to check for obvious error position in this case? Especially given that a recall petition is an effort to overturn the vote, as well as the cost to the voters not just of a recall election itself but that the vote will always be subject to question and pols will always be operating on that assumption. Also, needless, to say, the obvious invitation (and open acceptance of that invitation in this case) to game the system. Shouldn't the burden be more on the recallers than the incumbent? Reaching a certain number of petitioners by cheating with double, triple, etc. signatures is not meeting that burden.

Chip S. said...

Undermining confidence in the electoral process and incurring the expense of multiple recall elections are small prices to pay in order to prevent the public sector from becoming one gigantic sweatshop.

shiloh said...

Just a quick thank to Walker, Kasich, Scott, Snyder et al extreme over reachers for energizing the Democratic base. :)

Manna from Heaven!

Thank you, thank you very much.

ndspinelli said...

I know Harry Balz from East Scrotum, Wi. signed.

The Crack Emcee said...

I am genuinely afraid of fraud,...

Oh yeah. I sense that all-the-time.

You're a feminist, right?

Jeez.

ricpic said...

Election fraud in November! The Dems not so covert plan A. Plan B is occupying voting booths so the 1% vote right...er, left.

purplepenquin said...

I know Harry Balz from East Scrotum, Wi. signed.

You know this 'cause you signed a petition with that name, eh?

It's ok...you don't have to actually admit that you committed fraud.

But you raise an interesting point: Who is more likely to sign an obvious fake name (like Mickey Mouse or Hitler), someone who supports the recall effort or someone who want to see it defeated/discredited?

edutcher said...

Well, this will just ruin Alpha's (or Freder's) day.

They thought all those names were real.

shiloh said...

Just a quick thank to Walker, Kasich, Scott, Snyder et al extreme over reachers for energizing the Democratic base. :)

Manna from Heaven!

Thank you, thank you very much.


The Demos are so energized in WI, this is their 5th(?) try at beating Walker.

Milwaukee said...

Chip S. said...
Undermining confidence in the electoral process and incurring the expense of multiple recall elections are small prices to pay in order to prevent the public sector from becoming one gigantic sweatshop.


Right. We should leave public sector work to being the quasi-country club that it is, not a sweatshop. I have rarely ever seen a public sector employee sweating. Teachers pay goes up whether students learn anything or not. In Beloit, police and firefighters are given lifetime health insurance, none of this switching to Medicare when they are 65 nonsense.

Ann Althouse said...

"It's the identical process used last summer when Republicans were petitioning to recall Democrats. I wonder what's changed now?"

1. A lot more signatures on this petition, making the time crunch alarming.

2. A lot more attention being given in the press to this problem now. I don't remember seeing it before.

3. Seems to me mostly Republicans were recalled last summer too, so it's not like I'm changing position.

Milwaukee said...

There should be some legal consequence for those signing the petition more than once, and for those signing with a false name. I moved out of Wisconsin last year, and only just got my name off the voter lists. I am in my second state since leaving Wisconsin. The next two states DID NOT notify the previous state when I registered to vote, as they are supposed to. The Voter Registration thing isn't working in that regard.

Ann Althouse said...

I've always had a consistent position on recalls, by the way: I'm strongly opposed to the procedure. I think it's wasteful and unfair.

Most people want to pay attention and vote at the regular intervals. Then we'd like to let the person serve out their term, while we go back to the things we do with our lives.

People who want to disrupt that pattern are putting the rest of us to a lot of trouble and discord that we don't want. The incessant divisiveness is truly horrible in this state.

And it wastes tax money too.

Milwaukee said...

Didn't I just see that Senator Taylor from the Milwaukee area has a mom, who has a house with 35 registered voters living there? That's not fraud. Sorry I brought it up.

wv: ulawbequ

Milwaukee said...

Ann: People who want to disrupt that pattern are putting the rest of us to a lot of trouble and discord that we don't want. The incessant divisiveness is truly horrible in this state.

And it wastes tax money too.



Do you think it might discourage others from starting or expanding businesses? Just maybe?

Rose said...

What is a problem is bogus names, unless you also have the voter database handy. I would imagine that privacy concerns will bar Walker's people from access to that.

Don't know how it is in Wisconsin, but in CA, candidates purchase the voter database. It allows them to do targeted mailings, by party, by those who have voted in the last election(s), by town, by District, age... they don't have voter signatures, but they can certainly match names to addresses.

I'd think you want both the handwritten and typed out lists - the recent headline making case showed a signature sheet that looked like every name was filled in and signed in the same handwriting (might make it easier to target key blocks) - then you need an army of people to CALL, and or fan out and go door to door verifying that people whose names are on there ARE actually people who signed those petitions.

I agree - an impossible task.

shiloh said...

"The Voter Registration thing isn't working in that regard."

Are you sayin' Walker's admin is inefficient or more likely WI's board of elections being totally discombobulated because of Walker lol.

ricpic said...

The incessant divisiveness is truly horrible in this state

To you. To activists it's the spice of life.

purplepenquin said...

Most people want to pay attention and vote at the regular intervals. Then we'd like to let the person serve out their term, while we go back to the things we do with our lives

Like a "Sunday-only" Christian, eh?

In my opinion democracy doesn't begin and end at the voting booth...but knowing you give these issues a thought only once every couple years helps explain why you have the point-of-views that you do.

(And that sounds more spiteful/mean than I intend for it to be. For real.)

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

The (non-partisan, lol) GAB is literally asking people to sign multiple times and use fake names. But just don't scribble out a name. That could get you 3 years in the big house.

garage mahal said...

Wisdems announcement tomorrow, no details. The buzz is they have the 540k signatures.

Robert said...

Isn't this a good thing for Scott Walker?

Vote for Walker, he's opposed by Adolph Hitler.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Going by the announced ground rules, they must be totally incompetent to have only 540K signatures at this point. They better get that dude that's already signed 80 times busy!

garage mahal said...

Bushman
Have to keep up with all the people burning petitions!

roesch/voltaire said...

"The incessant divisiveness is truly horrible in this state." I agree with this statement, which is why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda that divided the state into us and them. On a side note, I have looked at hundreds of signatures and not see one Ann Althouse-but you know there is still time to sign :)

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

On a side note, I have looked at hundreds of signatures and not see one Ann Althouse

But they did determine that Adloph Hitler, Mickey Mouse and "X" all live at her address.

Original Mike said...

"...which is why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda that divided the state into us and them."

I was going to keep my mouth shut, until I read this self-serving argument. What a load of horse shit.

Alex said...

Just burn all the petitions.

Alex said...

Mozart on Voltaire - "The ungodly arch-villain, Voltaire, has died like a dog" he wrote to Leopold.

Chuck66 said...

AA, as you have noted, for the left, this is a win at any cost, and with any tactic, battle for them.

Slightly different, but in a way the same.....this is how Al Franken won the US Senate seat by...what was it? 600 votes? In Minnesota. By letting any one and everyone vote in Democrat Minneapolis.

Carrie Ann said...

I wonder if anyone has contacted Familysearch.org. Creating indexes out of document images is something they do all the time for old genealogy records. They have over 150,000 volunteers that index. 2 people index a document (page) and then the indexes are compared electronically. If there is a difference, a 3rd person will the arbitrate between what the 2 indexers saw. In the end you have a machine searchable index.

There is a short period to index all the names, but with enough volunteers, it could be done... at least partially.

Brett Rogers said...

I wonder how many times Scott Walker signed his own recall petition.

Victor Erimita said...

Election fraud has become a principal tactic of the Left in America. ACORN (or its avatars) is essentially a voter fraud organization. Soros's Secretary of State project got Christine Gregoire and Al Franken "elected." Maybe others. It's "by any means necessary" fascism, wrapped in the guise of liberal rhetoric.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

The threshold to force a recall is just way too low. I never had a doubt they'd produce the petitions with the required number of signatures.

The only question is do voters want public sector workers to "pay their fair share" or do voters want to continue to subsidize public employee health insurance and pensions. If voters want to continue to subsidize their benefits, then vote Walker out so the new guy can raise everyone's taxes to pay for the public sector employees.

All the crap about public sector employees having their "rights" taken away is just Democrat propaganda. It's a smokescreen to divert attention from the real issue.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Official ID of some sort SHOULD be required to sign the petition. If you can't prove you are a real person, fuggedaboutit!!!

That this nonsense is allowed to go on just illustrates the corruption sponsored by the democrat party. This is just one form, there are many others.

I need to show ID to buy alcohol, open a bank account, etc., so should people that wish to participate in government.

No tickee, no washee.

Jay said...

roesch/voltaire said...
"The incessant divisiveness is truly horrible in this state." I agree with this statement, which is why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda


Yes, because of course left wing ideas are never divisive they are "Mainstream"!

Always!

Jay said...

shiloh said...
Just a quick thank to Walker, Kasich, Scott, Snyder et al extreme over reachers for energizing the Democratic base. :)


Uh, right:

Just 41 percent of Americans think Mr. Obama has performed his job well enough to be elected to a second term, whereas 54 percent don't think so.

The president's overall approval rating remains in the mid-40's, according to a CBS News poll - lower than the approval ratings of Mr. Obama's four presidential predecessors at this point in their first terms. Mr. Obama's approval rating is dragged down by his poor marks for his handling of the economy - which, at 33 percent, is the lowest rating of his presidency in CBS News polls.



Take care!

Original Mike said...

"...do voters want public sector workers to "pay their fair share" or do voters want to continue to subsidize public employee health insurance and pensions."

If Walker does a good job framing this question, he should win running away. And in the event, public workers may end up considerably damaged vis-a-vis our current position.

But, no need to speculate. Apparently we're going to find out.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"...which is why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda that divided the state into us and them.

No roachy, incorrect.

1. Scott Walker does not 'have' to be recalled. It is the desire of 'special interests' that drive this recall effort.
2. Scott Walker merely brought the message from the 'others' that says public employees cannot collectively bargain (its a shakedown) against the 'others' that fund their jobs - salary, benefits, pension etc.
3. His agenda is not extreme, it is timely considering the deeply-rooted financial situation. Your 'us and them' reference aptly describes and heavily favors the public employees extortion scheme.

Why? There is NOTHING in it for the others except for their own money. No bennies, no holidays, no pensions, no collective bargaining.

Apparently scruples aren't in your vocabulary, allowing the nonsense of signatures with Mickey Mouse and so forth further indicate the desperation and depravity of the democrat party.

Petunia said...

If you're in favor of a recall, but not in favor of the GAB investigating signature validity and giving the incumbent's side extra time to verify the signatures and addresses if necessary, then you're in favor of voter fraud. Period.

Joanna said...

verifytherecall.com

Anyone can volunteer with this independent group. (Over 4000+ volunteers already.)

MayBee said...

Anyone can volunteer with this independent group.

If anyone can volunteer, how do you know the results will be any good?

Why wouldn't a pro-recall group volunteer to "help"?

Ann Althouse said...

"Anyone can volunteer with this independent group. (Over 4000+ volunteers already.)"

I saw that, but I was skeptical. Who are those people? Collecting names...

They could be pro-recall.

ObeliskToucher said...

So... Is the process to protest a signature as sloppy as the verification of that signature? If so, ALL of those signatures look invalid to me.

Orion said...

If you still believe there are free and fair elections in this country you are:
A: Naive
B: Not Paying Attention
C: Foolish

Pick any two. There's a reason why the vast majority of the country doesn't believe our government represents us any more and a reason why so many people feel their vote doesn't matter any more.

So in 2012, will you vote for Obama 2.0 or Obama Lite? er, I mean Obama or Romney?


Orion

Ann Althouse said...

The link I provided in the post goes to a Scott Walker site collecting volunteers for verifying. That seems more trustworthy, I would think.

On the other hand, if you are pro-recall, then you might want to be independent or with a Democratic Party group.

All this verifying... some people will lean one way and some another.

I don't particularly trust any of it, which is why the entire procedure offends me.

Jose_K said...

In Venezuela, we signed a recall petiton. 4m signatures. And they were verified. Then where sold in a cd and the goverment denies work . Id doucmment, subsidies,etc, based on them. People was fired not only from goverment´s jobs but also from american oil companies based on their signatures. Of course, we have here a national ID card.
Said that does anybody knows statistic? You only needs a sample of signatures to know if the fraudulent number is enought to make invalid the whole data.
That is the way the work of quality control is made for cars to computers including drugs. Since essays are usually destructive you cant do the control to all the population.The same claims have been done here about elections , check all the votes. No, there is no need for that.
Mickey mouse?here in the electoral registry we have 20 Superman, Batman, Mojón( a landmark but also sh...),105 Hitler, 6 Tarzan, excalibur,and 2000 González living in a single household.Oddly enough at least one Superman is a real person

Scott M said...

I don't particularly trust any of it, which is why the entire procedure offends me.

I'm hip. Recalls of any kind seem to be wanne-be direct democracy exercises or give voice to those who wished (however misguidedly) they lived in a direct democracy. Direct democracy doesn't work on anything larger than a village level any better than communism. Okay...maybe better than communism.

garage mahal said...

Michael Haas, Staff Counsel at the GAB, advises that no one who signed or circulated a Recall petition; or made a political contribution for a candidate to an elected office in the last 12 months can be hired as part of the verification process, per the Department of Administration. Link

Chef Mojo said...

As per Jose_K's Venezuelan example, it's clear that Wisconsin has been reduced to totalitarian banana republic status. I'm sure it will reap the rewards of that status soon.

But it's fun to sit here and laugh at Wisconsin. Really, you guys have managed to make Louisiana politics look sane. We all watch Wisconsin in amazement as it throws its tantrum and shits in its sandbox. Wisconsin's collective idiocy knows no bounds.

Seerak said...

Al Gore's chickens coming home to roost.

When the Left seeks to get away with something, they first widely and repeatedly accuse their opponents of doing. That was the real point of 2000 -- not to win the election, but to undercut trust in them. Then, when they get caught at it, nobody cares because "everyone does it" and the general population just says "a pox on both their houses" and sinks further into cynical apathy. Nobody is motivated to fight it (in the name of what, exactly? says the cynic) and the way is cleared.

Remember: the Left is not interested in winning elections, so much as they are in ultimately sabotaging them. (It's not unlike their approach to the media; they are less interested in controlling it than they are in sabotaging our ability to trust *any* media.)

garage mahal said...

We all watch Wisconsin in amazement as it throws its tantrum and shits in its sandbox.

Sometimes democracy is messy.

Joanna said...

I saw that, but I was skeptical. Who are those people? Collecting names...

They could be pro-recall.


As it says on their website, this recall verification group is organized by two different WI groups -- We the People of the Republic and The Wisconsin Grandsons of Liberty, and they are affiliated with True the Vote.

I attended an info meeting last night. If these people are anti-Walker thugs in disguise, they are good. Everything I saw and heard portrayed a group of people interested in ensuring that no fraudulent signatures tarnish the democratic process.

Simon said...

Ann Althouse said...
"I've always had a consistent position on recalls, by the way: I'm strongly opposed to the procedure. I think it's wasteful and unfair. "

Amen. It's also desperately counterproductive insofar as it discourages elected officials from donig things that cause short-term pain no matter how urgently-needed.


purplepenquin said...
"Like a "Sunday-only" Christian, eh? In my opinion democracy doesn't begin and end at the voting booth...but knowing you give these issues a thought only once every couple years helps explain why you have the point-of-views that you do."

No, she's right. Real people are busy. They don't have time to devote the intellectual resources needed for constant political engagement, and they don't have the time to reevaluate the issues and candidates on a constant basis. So what happens? Faced with a constant bombardment of elections, the results of which will contested almost immediately by yet another election, people will simply tune out. We already have low participation; imagine what will happen when the election doesn't actually settle anything for any reasonable amount of time! The result is the removal of normal people out of the political process and turn elections over to the dreaded "special interests": people who are very politically engaged.

Simon said...

garage mahal said...
"Sometimes democracy is messy."

This isn't democracy. In a well-structured and functional democracy, elected officials are chosen in regularly-scheduled elections, not ad hoc on demand.

Alex said...

This isn't democracy.

It is according to the Wisconsin constitution.

Marshal said...

"The result is the removal of normal people out of the political process and turn elections over to the dreaded "special interests": people who are very politically engaged."

He knows that. That''s the whole reason he's for it.

PhaseMargin said...

The GAB will only check if the signatures are challenged?

How about if the GOP submits a challenge for every signature, or even every other signature? You flip the procedure around and force the board to verify that all the signatures and addresses are correct and unique. If nothing else it would buy you time to do the necessary analysis of all the signatures.

Sometimes representative democracy gets messy. And sometimes its fun just to throw a monkey wrench into the system.

BarrySanders20 said...

I wonder if they'll catch Hugh G. Rection, his roommate Phil McCreviss, or his neighbor Bea Vershaver

Joe Schmoe said...

But it's fun to sit here and laugh at Wisconsin. Really, you guys have managed to make Louisiana politics look sane. We all watch Wisconsin in amazement as it throws its tantrum and shits in its sandbox. Wisconsin's collective idiocy knows no bounds.

Wisconsin does seem very adrift to us outsiders. Funny and alternately sad to me, really. And the prospect of recalls becoming a frequently-used political weapon really, really pisses me off.

WI appears to be a smaller example of internal rifts playing out around the world. There seems to be a lot of unrest afoot. I'm not saying WI is a bellwether or canary in the coal mine, but it is representative for sure. The clash of haves vs. have-nots is rising. There seems to be dissonance over who constitutes the haves; many would have you believe they are the wealthy, whereas the haves are really people fattened on entitlements and willing to wreck nation states in order to protect them.

Simon said...

roesch/voltaire said...
"why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda that divided the state into us and them."

This is like the inane lament that Congress is polarized. Politicians don't polarize us, we polarize them! Walker was elected because Wisconsin has a number of people ("us") who totally disagree with you ("them").

Ultimately, the source of the division is that people really disagree with one another. I can see why you'd think that was a problem.

MayBee said...

Joanna- did the True the Vote people do anything to make sure partisans were not volunteering?

Beta Rube said...

According to the quote provided by Mr. Mahal. the GAB is more concerned about the verifiers than by signatories who sign with an "X".

I wondered what we were paying these dopes for.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Everything I saw and heard portrayed a group of people interested in ensuring that no fraudulent signatures tarnish the democratic process.


They're wasting their time. It's all a show trial. The GAB will work to thwart their efforts. If fake names have already been declared valid, why pretend that the process has any integrity?

Better off to save their resources for the inevitable election.

damikesc said...

I agree with this statement, which is why we have to recall the source of this divisiveness-- Scott Walker and his extreme agenda that divided the state into us and them.

And if not for "racial agitators", blacks and whites in the Deep South always had a very cordial relationship during the early part of the 20th Century, huh?

Or if not some "cold broads who were just on their periods or something", women always were treated great in the workplace, huh?

Funny how the blame always lands on such unexpected places, huh?

damikesc said...

If fake names have already been declared valid, why pretend that the process has any integrity?

Indeed. People bemoan the lack of voter involvement in elections --- and then don't seem to notice that the government gives people ample reason to not trust election results.

Why should a conservative in WI waste their time voting any longer?

Alex said...

Why should a conservative in WI waste their time voting any longer?

Wah wah. Why should a liberal even bother voting in Utah? Face it, WI is a uber left wing progressive socialist paradise and conservatives either should move out or STFU and bow down to their mahal masters.

Fen said...

I'm starting recall petitions against whoever replaces Walker. I already have 3 million signatures! Woot!

Fen said...

Garage Mahal is my 4 millionth sig! Thank you Garage!

Petunia said...

The GAB is a relatively recent addition to the festering Wisconsin political swamp. 2007, I believe. I wonder how it can be eliminated, since they aren't doing anything worthwhile.

I wonder what their standards would be if it were a Democrat being recalled?

Oh, wait. Silly question.

Original Mike said...

@Petunia: At the least, its name should be changed. Accountabilty? Yeah, right.

RonF said...

Illinois politics makes Wisconsin look the soul of rectitude. I'll swap governor and legislature with you guys anytime.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

In my opinion democracy doesn't begin and end at the voting booth...but knowing you give these issues a thought only once every couple years helps explain why you have the point-of-views that you do.


Well, not all of us get our paychecks from the government.

Which explains why you have the point-of-views that you do.

DUH.

garage mahal said...

Why should a conservative in WI waste their time voting any longer?

Agreed! They should not vote as a show of protest.

Original Mike said...

@RonF - I don't think we have the prison capacity to accept your governors.

andinista said...

Its wierd Evry singl houss n my street siined d petitioss Who knew dat weer allll Walker-ha8rs? Hees goin downnn!

N d nex street, tooo, dey all siined Tomorr, ima gonna siin up anothr street

Wheee! Freee bubblup n rainboww steww, heer it comzz, I cann taast it nowww

Curious George said...

And like the sun coming up in the east, massive layoffs coming to Ohio with the repeal of their version of Walker's bill.

Ohio Issue 2 Failure and New Wave of Public Employee Layoffs

"The Cincinnati area public school district slipped into "fiscal caution" due to funding shortfalls totaling nearly $2.7 million. School officials are hosting a series of public meetings to share information with parents and garner opinions about upcoming staff layoffs and program elimination."

"Springfield Township faces a budget shortfall of nearly $2.2 million in revenue and anticipated laying off at least 20 public employees before the end of the year... approximately 12 police and firefighters will be laid off along with public employees in the administrative and par departments."

"Reynoldsburg city council met this week to discuss their $1.3 million budget shortfall and possible public employee layoffs. Police Chief Dave Suciu told the governing body his department is not at full staff according to city code and more layoffs would mean realigning staff and cutting programs"

Alll the stupid slogans and talking points are gonna change reality.

Steve Koch said...

Maybe they should have a computerized system where you have to show your ID to sign up for the recall. It would match your physical driver's license that you present when signing up for the recall to the driver's license that is in the state database. Where there is a will, there is a way. The computerized system could be located in county tax offices.

I hate to let cheaters (especially Dems) get away with cheating (especially in elections) so I would prefer a rigorous system that prevents cheating, even though it costs some money to do so.

Didn't the Dems defeat a couple of incumbents in Wisconsin during the last set of recalls? The Dems in Wisconsin seem to be pretty good at recalls.

Steve Koch said...

Better yet to have a web based application to do the recall signup thing. In Texas we can do quite a few state business type things online (like changing your address). You have to answer some questions to verify your identity. It probably isn't foolproof but it is much, much better than nothing.

David said...

I knew a guy named Steve Duck. My fraternity brother. Everyone called him Brother Duck.

His father's name was Donald Duck.

Really.

Tiga275 said...

For the recent Ohio recall petitions, statewide average invalid signatures was about 30% and several counties had over 100% invalid signatures. Nothing to worry about.

Original Mike said...

Do you have a link for that, Tiga?

Unknown said...

I'm with the Elie Wiesel Institute. I will personally search out the Hitler that signed this and snatch him for his crimes.

Unknown said...

=====small prices to pay in order to prevent the public sector from becoming one gigantic sweatshop.

Where would you like me to deliver your 2 dozen donuts?

Unknown said...

By the way, Governor Walker's reforms are working.....

City of Sheboygan - Mayor Bob Ryan says collective bargaining reforms will provide enough savings to make up for the reduction in state aid;
.
Wauwatosa School District - tax levy decreasing, no programs will be cut, class sizes won't increase, thanks to the reforms in collective bargaining;
.
Manitowoc - Laid-off city workers may get their jobs back due to the wage/benefit reforms contained in Walker's budget. Changes to overtime rules saving the county $100,000;
,
Pittsville - will see a 9% decrease in the school portion of their property tax levy. "This is the first year we have not needed to short-term borrow," stated Board President Strenn;

garage mahal said...

Do you have a link for that, Tiga?

100% invalid sigs from several counties? I'm guessing no link will be forthcoming. Sounds bad though!

Milwaukee said...

shiloh said...
"The Voter Registration thing isn't working in that regard."

Are you sayin' Walker's admin is inefficient or more likely WI's board of elections being totally discombobulated because of Walker lol.


Shiloh: You reveal yourself for who you are. I incorrectly said "voter registration" when what I was referring to was the Motor Voter Registration. This is where a new citizen to a state can register their car, and to vote, at the same time, which is Federal legislation. The responsibility of notifying the old state of a voter new to a different state falls on the voter registration officials of the new state. The state I moved to didn't notify Wisconsin that I was now registered there. This is not the fault of anybody in Wisconsin. Your eagerness to blame Walker, who has not yet been in office a full year, is revealing. "lol" is not in order, rather sympathy for your feeble understanding of the situation.

Curious George said...

"David said...
I knew a guy named Steve Duck. My fraternity brother. Everyone called him Brother Duck.

His father's name was Donald Duck.

Really."

I went to HS with a Mary Christmas. And a Carol Christmas.

Really.

Kirk Parker said...

Curious and Unknown,

Your two sets of quotes about Ohio's dire situation, and Wisconsin's relatively better position, would be a lot more useful if you included a citation.

wv: cinester -- film noire

Kirk Parker said...

Victor: Every single Washington Secretary of State since 1964, including our current SOS Sam Reed, has been a Republican. Probably soft, squishy, RINO-type Republicans, but neverthless with a genuine (R) after their names. Are you sure Soros supported them rather than their (D) opponents?

Curious George said...

purplepenquin said...

What has changed tho is that thugs (paid by the GOP?) are engaging in threats and physical attacks against people who are collecting signatures:

http://tinyurl.com/7qu4oky
http://tinyurl.com/79w837e
http://tinyurl.com/7qef42c
http://tinyurl.com/cffzumw
http://tinyurl.com/6tk9sxk

I'm afraid that the violence will continue to increase as the Walker supporters become even more desperate in their attempts to keep him in power."

If you are going to make stupid statements then you really should post links that don't support your contention.

First link: Woman ripped up blank recall petition. No threats, physical attacks, or violence. According to your link, she didn't even say anything.

Second link: Person scribbles some fake names on the petition, then leaves. No threats, physical attacks, or violence. According to your link, he didn't even say anything.

Third link: Conflicting stories but a man was taking pictures a recall petitioners and their license plates saying he was going to identify who they were. A recall petitoner then took out her phone to take a picture of him, at which point he tried to swipe it away. The man in quesiton refutes this, saying he was trying to get the phone out his face because she hit his eye. Truth, who knows. But this same thing has been done by many many of the protesters, including to Ann. So it's hardly different. I don't remeber you wetting your fucking pants then. Maybe you can link to your terror at the time.

Fourth Link: verbal altercation where I guy also took a camera, and then gave it back forceably. He was not charged with assault, just disorderly conduct. Again, this has occurred with the protesters also, as well as being charged with DO. SO not new. OLD.

Last link: A guy used names and numbers of a TV news story and called a few of the people. No threats, physical attacks, or violence. He wasn't charged with a thing. Of course GOPers have not only their addresses published, but people coming to their house (including Walker). They have also received death threats. Did you voice your concern then PP? Maybe you could show me.

You are really pathetic. A poster child for liberal idiocy and hypocrisy.

Curious George said...

@ Kirk Parker;

http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-issue-2-failure-wave-public-employee-layoffs-232800603.html

garage mahal said...

Second link: Person scribbles some fake names on the petition, then leaves


lul wat? A Walker supporter scribbled some fake names?

Tiga275 said...

Of the more than 1.3 million signatures submitted by supporters, the secretary of state's office certified 915,456 for an approximately 70.5% validation rate.
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Ohio_Senate_Bill_5_Veto_Referendum,_Issue_2_%282011%29

Still working to find the county by county results.

caseym54 said...

Oddly, in California they are quite able to scrutinize these petitions for all kinds of errors. They do best at petitions that upset the government status quo, of course (e.g. term limits).

But seriously, what they do is sample the petitions and test those samples quite carefully. Then they extrapolate the sample and go with the statistical result.

Unknown said...

Kirk Parker asked for links to "It Working" news items....
A very reasonable request....

Sheboygan

http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20110629/SHE0101/306290007/Special-Report-s-new-world-public-employee-pay?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CSHE-News

wauwatosa

http://wauwatosa.patch.com/articles/school-board-quietly-passes-budget-based-on-sacrifice

Manitowoc

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20110706/MAN0101/107060474/Some-laid-off-city-workers-rehired-month?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE
http://www.htrnews.com/article/20110720/MAN0101/107200527/Overtime-rules-changed-Manitowoc-County-employees?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE

Pittsville

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20110615/WRT0101/106150626/Pittsville-Schools-OK-preliminary-budget?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE

Thanks for asking!!! There's plenty more. Look forward to documenting other evidence that good fiscal governance is guiding our state for the well-being of all of us.


Oh and Tiga275 that's a fascinating link. Will be forwarding it to a bunch of people

shiloh said...

Milwaukee, sorry I misconstrued your post. After posting thought it didn't make much sense, but figured you would ignore it.

Re: Walker, all fame is fleeting.

Roux said...

I think that the laws in Wisconsin were made by people who never thought some group would try and subvert them.

They should know better.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Second link: Person scribbles some fake names on the petition, then leaves


lul wat? A Walker supporter scribbled some fake names?"

How do you know that it was a Walker supporter?

Yuu know, a key requirement in being a smartass is being smart.

Pogo said...

So if maybe 1% of the names are real, Wisconsin democrats are fine with declaring the remaining 99% valid.

What a bullshit state you have. Look at your idiot neighbor to the south, 10 times as mendacious as you are, losing jobs right and left.

"Illinois lost more jobs during the month of July than any other state in the nation. ...Illinois started to create jobs as the national economy began to recover. But just when Illinois’s economy seemed to be turning around, lawmakers passed record tax increases in January of this year. Since then, Illinois’s employment numbers have done nothing but decline"

Obama's training ground, now the nation's fatal direction. And Wisconsin's Democrats want fake signatures to mean the same thing as real ones because its the intent, right?

Minnesota faced this same clusterfuck with Al Franken and his trunkload of votes.

Me? I've nearly had it. Am preparing for my town to become, slowly, another Detroit. We've already got the drive-bys and crony capitalism, and flight from the city to neighboring small towns, escaping violence and taxes.

The nationwide increase in gun ownership ain't for nothing. I owned none until 2 years ago.

Curious George said...

"purplepenquin said...

What has changed tho is that thugs (paid by the GOP?) are engaging in threats and physical attacks against people who are collecting signatures:

http://tinyurl.com/7qu4oky
http://tinyurl.com/79w837e
http://tinyurl.com/7qef42c
http://tinyurl.com/cffzumw
http://tinyurl.com/6tk9sxk

I'm afraid that the violence will continue to increase as the Walker supporters become even more desperate in their attempts to keep him in power."

Now if you look read her/his/its links three out of the five contained absolutely no threats, physical attackes, or violence. Two contained verbal outbursts and brabbing not a person, but a comera. Yet the Penquin is all concerned, and clealry attributes this braodly to "Walker supporters" and questions if they were paid for by the GOP.

Now to see just what a hypcritical piece of shit the Penquin is, here is her comment to the assault of Althous and her son, which not only included verbal outbursts, and grabbing of camera, but hands on botha nd Ann and her son:

"All of them ganged up and attacked Ann?!!?

*rolls eyes*" and

"I wasn't dismissing the shoving match our host got into. Rather, I just find it amazing how so many people are willing to judge an entire group of folks on the actions of one or three kooks."

The problem with liberals...especially Madison liberals, is that they live in such a confined echo chamber that as long as they stick to their dogma even their lies are not challenged.

Curious George said...

"Pogo said...
So if maybe 1% of the names are real, Wisconsin democrats are fine with declaring the remaining 99% valid.

What a bullshit state you have. Look at your idiot neighbor to the south, 10 times as mendacious as you are, losing jobs right and left.

"Illinois lost more jobs..."

Pogo, I please do not call the liberal moron in Wisconsin "Wisonsin." Wisconsin did what IL, or your home state (MN right?)did not....go after the core of the problem. We elected the conservatives in both the state house and legislature to make that happen. We elected the SCOW Justice to keep the looney left from attacking their changes through the courts. We saved all the recall districts except those with a large Democratic constituency.

To recall Walker they need only 25% of the total vote from the last election to sign a petition. They'll likely get it. But that's only half way to waht they need to win the recall.

Pogo said...

The problem with liberals...especially Madison liberals, is that they have jettisoned compassion and social justice and chosen bare-knuckled state power for its own sake.

That is, they have made the decision to be evil.

And with this lie of a recall, disenfranchising the voters who elected Walker in favor of fake names and bullshit addresses, they are pushing even closer toward a second civil war.

Again, there's a reason people are arming themselves in record numbers. And it ain't for hunting squirrels.

Pogo said...

That's just the point, Curious George. The liberals in Wisconsin do not represent the state, and they couldn't get enough real signatures to recall Walker.

But the vote will occur regardless. And now I do not trust Wisconsin's vote any more than Minnesota's, where literally busloads of people can be vouched for as real voters by one man. Hence Al Franken.

I am not despairing over this, just accepting the loss of our nation as a fact to be dealt with.

I hope it's over quickly. But it's going to get very ugly.

andinista said...

Sso, dey sukkd uu in, w promisss of free abortions, free luvv, free marrigg, free food, freedom from feer, want; freee helth carr; free respeccc; free car n houss

Yaahh! D Demos r d Partyyy for me! e.g. free abortsss, I'm in 4evah!!

But wat dey diddnt tell yall was 2 givv yall alldat, dey need freedom from d rulzz of law Sso dey can takk from dose who got, n givv it 2 uu; n takk from uu to givv it 2 others; n if yall resist: so dey can takk ur liiffs.

Don say its dem leftoids or proggros: d Dems are d Partyy of free stufff n slavryy. BBe honesst n owwwnn it! Cuzz a peep who gets free stuff, izz a slavv livin @ d pittanss of deyr masstas.

Kirk Parker said...

Thanks, Curious and Unk: that's very helpful.

purplepenquin said...

Only a poo-throwing monkey would think that there is nothing violent about destroying someone else's property.

garage mahal said...

That's just the point, Curious George. The liberals in Wisconsin do not represent the state, and they couldn't get enough real signatures to recall Walker.

The 52% Silent Majority will get a chance to stake their claim on the state soon. Our Governor assures us the new voter ID law will prevent any chicanery. What's to worry about? Why aren't Walker supporters touting all the successes instead of crying like babies over petition signatures?

Pogo said...

You and the Democrats are taking Wisconsin on the long painful slide down to Illinois and then Detroit, ending in receivership.

You must be so proud of what the nation's Democrats have done, to California, Ohio, St. Louis, Philadelphia, and Flint.

You guys destroy everything you touch. Christ almighty on rollerskates, but you all must hate your fellow humans sumpin fierce.

Pogo said...

No, Garage, I don't trust your voting anymore than I trust it in any other state. The entire process is bullshit now.

garage mahal said...

Take a week off from the winger blogs Pogo. Sounds like it could do you a world of good.

Curious George said...

"purplepenquin said...
Only a poo-throwing monkey would think that there is nothing violent about destroying someone else's property."

Save it Penquin for your idiot lib friends. You are a liar, and a hypocrite. This response is just more proof of it. But again you said "What has changed..." when of course this is not the case. The acts you cite have been going on, by the protesters, for most of the year.

Blowing loud horns in people faces, shouting down a young girl with obscenities, running reporters off the square, protesting at peoples homes, physically attacking a 60 year old female blogger and her son, dumping beer on people in a resstaurant, chasing and cornering politicians, and breaking windows and doors storming the capitol.

More often than not this was not done by one protester, but a mob of same.

So keep lying about your job, people "stalking you", and all the rest. Keep up your hypocrisy. You are delusional. And will lose in the end.

Willy said...

I always like to read the Althouse comments section if I feel that Queen Ann herself hasn't risen to the appropriate level of right-wing-crazy that I require.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

Only a poo-throwing monkey would think that there is nothing violent about destroying someone else's property.


Hysterical.

Again, the lies you need to tell yourself in order to be a leftist are endless.

Original Mike said...

"Of the more than 1.3 million signatures submitted by supporters, the secretary of state's office certified 915,456 for an approximately 70.5% validation rate.
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Ohio_Senate_Bill_5_Veto_Referendum,_Issue_2_%282011%29"


30% invalid signatures. Sheesh.

Thanks, Tiga.

purplepenquin said...

correction: Only a poo-throwing monkey and a brownshirted Jay would think there is nothing violent about destroying someone else's property.


Of course, it ain't no surprise that CurioGeo is in favor of such behavior...@12/14/11 6:47PM he slips up and admits that he is the guy in one of the videos linked!

Given his boorish behavior on this forum, is it in surprise that he acts the same way in public?

ndspinelli said...

Cluttery and boring thread.