November 17, 2011

"The whole Homeland Security thing has been a bureaucratic crock."

"It’s turned out exactly as I predicted."

47 comments:

Patrick said...

I really think anyone who gave it much thought could have predicted the fiasco HS has become. The only real success they can point to with their lines and checkpoints is the (perhaps) potential that someone was deterred. Any of the real successes have come from passengers and crew members who've caught what the TSA has missed.

What? Another government program fails to meet expectations? Hey! Let's put these folks in charge of health care!

Jay said...

It is a crock and it was just a boon to Democrats for more public sector union jobs.

However, since we have all those government employees not making us safer, perhaps we can dispatch them to OWS:


A protester was arrested in Zuccotti Park Wednesday after he threatened to fire bomb the city — and his rant went viral on YouTube, police said.

Nkrumah Tinsley, 29, was busted after cops saw a video of him claiming he would torch the city during Thursday’s mass protest posted online, police said.

“On the 17th (of Nov.), we’re going to burn New York City to the f---ing ground,” an angry Tinsley told a crowd of demonstrators in the video posted on Tuesday.

“In a few days, you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.”


Maybe a rape or two will be stopped?

Rumpletweezer said...

It's all been, as Megan McArdle says, "security theater."

Jay said...

What? Another government program fails to meet expectations? Hey! Let's put these folks in charge of health care!


Exactly.

Despite the fact that the government does not do anything efficiently or effectively* the only "solution" is always more government.

*Except for certain military engagements.

Tregonsee said...

I don't really disagree, but it is useful to remember that pre-9/11 we had a security program which was explicitly intended to give the impression of security at the lowest possible cost. The screeners were laughably unqualified, often not citizens or unable to speak English. Access out of sight of the traveling public was poorly controlled, often allowing employees to drive into secure areas with only an ID. As a retired airline pilot who lost friends and coworkers that day, I would not like to see a return to the "good old days." However, what we have now is an example of a government program run amok. Surely there is a responsible, rational middle ground?

Scott M said...

I can only comment on what I've witnessed personally, but the portly fellows and gals working the lines here at Lambert Field in STL certainly look like they're enjoying their standing around time. Every time I go through security, there is always a gaggle of them standing around outside the area where the lines are being sans-shoes inspected.

Why are they all fat?

Jay said...

The screeners were laughably unqualified, often not citizens or unable to speak English.

Um, this has not changed.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Because government doesn't solve problems very well. Because deliberative lawmakers are rare, and knee-jerk garden-variety types abound. And are they ever smart!

Truth be told, more layers are constantly being added to the 'problem onion' created by bureaucrats.

Imaging a home with hundreds of layers of wallpaper. This is effectively the approach of government today.

Just look at the results.

Intentions are NOT results.

Scott M said...

Um, this has not changed.

Yes, it has. Now they are laughably unqualified, often not citizens or unable to speak English, but have union-protected jobs.

Patrick said...

Tregonsee,

There likely is something in the middle. If the old system was designed to give the impression of security at the lowest cost, the current system gives roughly the same at this highest cost. Other than taking away lots of nail files etc., there is nothing new that it accomplishes.

I'm sorry for your losses on that terrible day.

MadisonMan said...

*Except for certain military engagements.

Efficiently? Maybe before Iraq #2.

DHS and DOEducation would be DOA in the MadisonMan Administration.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shanna said...

It's a classic case of Congress needing to do SOMETHING whether that something was useful or not.

And then like all such agencies, it never goes away and always keeps growing...

Sofa King said...


DHS and DOEducation would be DOA in the MadisonMan Administration.


The union would not allow it.

Jay said...

Efficiently? Maybe before Iraq #2.



Um, Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.

Epic fail.

phx said...

Um, Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.

Epic fail.


And then we went back home and there no more casualties. It was so easy. It only took 3 weeks.

MadisonMan said...

Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.

Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld. And they all lived happily ever after.

Mark O said...

Unless and until my kids can walk down the concourse to see me off on a trip, the terrorists are winning. Does anyone think that a plane will ever be hijacked again? Not likely even without the TSA.

Do you have more freedom today that four years ago? Of course not, but you are much safer, aren't you? Aren't you? Answer you ungrateful, lazy, plutocrat.

purplepenquin said...

It is a crock and it was just a boon to Democrats for more public sector union jobs

Pres. Bush created this department just so the Dems can get more union jobs?

Uhm...ok.

Despite the fact that the government does not do anything efficiently or effectively

While there are plenty of examples of abuse...this TSA being one of them...I have to disagree with you and the other anarchists that claim gov't doesn't do anything effectively.

Jay said...

phx said...

And then we went back home and there no more casualties. It was so easy. It only took 3 weeks.


Um, huh?

Do you have a point?

phx said...

In an empty room, interrogating an empty chair with devastating effect, to the admiration of readers.

Jay said...

Pres. Bush created this department just so the Dems can get more union jobs?


President Bush didn't create the Department, Congress, led by Tom Daschle, Democrat, did.

have to disagree with you and the other anarchists that claim gov't doesn't do anything effectively.


Who cares, you're an idiot.

And, you can provide no examples of this.

Sofa King said...

Pres. Bush created this department just so the Dems can get more union jobs?


It was not originally unionized. That was a key element of why it had, originally, bipartisan support.

Jay said...

MadisonMan said...

Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld. And they all lived happily ever after.


Do you have a point?

Because you sound rather stupid and obtuse.

Jay said...

I have to disagree with you and the other anarchists

Pointing out facts does not make me an "anarchist" you moron.

Scott M said...

"It is a crock and it was just a boon to Democrats for more public sector union jobs"

Pres. Bush created this department just so the Dems can get more union jobs?

You need to read that sentence again. It doesn't say what you think it says.

I have to disagree with you and the other anarchists that claim gov't doesn't do anything effectively.

"Effectively" is less important than efficiently in this context. Frankly, I don't think any system that the American people would tolerate can truly stop an organized, completely dedicated attempt to bring down a jetliner.

John said...

Two TSA related stories this week that are worthy of note:

The Europeans have decided to ban the naked body x-ray scanners as emitting too much radiation.

The TSA has decided not to investigate the safety of the scanners. This after having promised that they would.

http://www.propublica.org/article/tsa-puts-off-safety-study-of-x-ray-body-scanners

Michael Chertoff former Sec Homeland Security who made millions from Rapiscan laughs at us suckers as he makes another trip to his bank.

Rapiscan is the maker of the Xray systems and Chertoff is the lobbyist who got them approved as the sole source in the US.

John Henry

WV: Sicnes. Yeah, sounds about right. This is a sickness with the main infection in DC.

Fortunately we have the good doctor (Ron Paul) on his way to DC as Prez to fight the infection.

Jay said...

MadisonMan said...

Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld. And they all lived happily ever after.


As a point of fact:
Saddam's Army (and the Ba'aath regime) were overthrown in 21 days without the use of WMD or any "scortched earth" tactics. The coalition loss rate of fewer than one in 2,300 troops KIA was the lowest ever for modern mechanized campaigns.

But go ahead and pretend it wasn't "efficient" in your silly ignorance.

John said...

Speaking of OWS, this youtube video purports to be from the OWS General Assembly asking people to contribute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJSwyPPDKQg

However, if you follow the link in the video

www.owsgeneralassembly.org

it takes you to Koch Industries careers page.

Did someone hack the OWS?

Is the "contribute" request a message for these folks to contribute to society by getting a job?

Scott M said...

Fortunately we have the good doctor (Ron Paul) on his way to DC as Prez to fight the infection.

Please have your temperature taken as it appears you're feverish. And remember...there's really only one accurate way to check your body temp...

John said...

Scott M

I know, I know. Dr Paul had no support at all outside of a few loony liberals like myself.

That is why he has always been in 3rd or 4th place (out of 7-9 total)

That is why he is currently #2 in New Hampshire and tied for #1 in Iowa.

That is why he is able to raise prodigious sums of money in fairly small amounts.

$12mm so far

Not a whole lot less than Bachman, Cain Gingrich and Santorum combined.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/index.php

Perry has raised $17mm and look how much good it has done him.

So yeah, I think a rectal probe is indicated. However, if it will fit, I think the one who needs it is you.

John Henry

Bruce Hayden said...

One of my favorite TSA stories - I was flying with a guy who is studying explosives in graduate school. Some of them are close to rocket fuel, and that is his real interest.

Apparently, he flies a fair amount, and has on multiple occaxsions come from his explosives lab, showered, changed clothes, and then gone through TSA security, without question or incident.

Meanwhile we all have to take off our shoes, and old ladies and babies are getting patted down.

Scott M said...

Hey, I like the guy for the most part. I'm not a fan of his foreign policy, for the most part, but what I'm specifically referring to is his ability to get the nomination. I just don't believe it's realistic to expect it will happen short of complete collapse by those considered ahead of him in the race.

Bruce Hayden said...

My favorite airport security story though happened between 9/11 and TSA. At the time, I was in Salt Lake City, flying bi-weekly back to Denver. So, for maybe 6 months or so we had the Utah National Guard walking around the SLC airport carrying their M-16s.

The problem was that they didn't have magazines for their weapons, nor did they have radios.

AllenS said...

Homeland Security is a joke because the only effective prevention that will work is to be able to profile individuals, or groups of people. That ain't going to happen. That's why is sucks.

MayBee said...

DHS got too big too fast and now has to keep itself busy by generating new hoops for us to jump through.

My Big 10 alma mater has adopted "homeland security" rules for entrance into the football games, which means you can't carry anything in, not even a tiny purse. I can't imagine for the life of me why DHS needed to involve itself in the college athletic viewing experience, but there seems to be no fighting it.

purplepenquin said...

Has Jay ever made a comment where he doesn't call someone a name and/or make a personal attack?

At first I thought he must get his ass kicked a lot when having these discussions in his local tavern, but I'm gonna guess he only talks tough when he is hiding behind his monitor.

edutcher said...

The second you heard Terrible Tiny Tommy Daschle say7, "You don't professionalize unless you federalize", knew it would end badly.

MadisonMan said...

Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.

Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld. And they all lived happily ever after.


Rumsfeld didn't want to go there in the first place. It was Colin Powell and Tenet's idea.

phx said...

Um, Saddam's army was obliterated in 3 weeks.

Epic fail.


And then we went back home and there no more casualties. It was so easy. It only took 3 weeks.


Once we stopped doing it the Lefty way and did it Petraeus' way, it was easy. Remember how quickly things turned around? And it was all that nasty General Betray-us' doing!

Now all the little Lefties are happy again because their Messiah has thrown away that victory.

Joe said...

Unless and until my kids can walk down the concourse to see me off on a trip

Getting non-passengers out of the concourses was very welcome and should have been done long before that--some airports had already implemented this since it could be very disruptive for passengers changing planes.

Ralph L said...

The problem was that they didn't have magazines for their weapons
Neither did the Marines guarding their barracks in Beirut in '83, because higher ups didn't trust them not to cause an international incident.

This country is too big and too open to defend completely. That's a major reason why Bush took the fight to Iraq, which Democrats were so quick to try to end by losing.

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...
Has Jay ever made a comment where he doesn't call someone a name and/or make a personal attack?


Hi, dum-dum.

The number of examples you've provided of "effective" government remains at zero.

edutcher said...

Bruce Hayden said...

My favorite airport security story though happened between 9/11 and TSA. At the time, I was in Salt Lake City, flying bi-weekly back to Denver. So, for maybe 6 months or so we had the Utah National Guard walking around the SLC airport carrying their M-16s.

The problem was that they didn't have magazines for their weapons, nor did they have radios.


It was different state to state. In OH, you had guys walking around in their Class Bs (if that's the correct term) with sidearms only; in Hawaii, the Honolulu airport was guarded by the 442nd Infantry, the most decorated unit in WWII, and those guys were on full alert - magazines in their weapons, combat gear and fatigues, and watching everybody.

Ralph L said...

The problem was that they didn't have magazines for their weapons

Neither did the Marines guarding their barracks in Beirut in '83, because higher ups didn't trust them not to cause an international incident.

IIRC, that was a State Department decision, not the Administration or DoD. And again, IIRC, it goes back to the Kent State thing (may be wrong on that, but I don't think so).

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Allie said...

Has Jay ever made a comment where he doesn't call someone a name and/or make a personal attack?

11/17/11 9:33 AM
No.

Kirk Parker said...

McArdle may indeed call it "security theater", but I think it is Bruce Schnier who gets credit for coining the term.

damikesc said...

I don't really disagree, but it is useful to remember that pre-9/11 we had a security program which was explicitly intended to give the impression of security at the lowest possible cost. The screeners were laughably unqualified, often not citizens or unable to speak English

...now, it just costs more money with equal results.

E.M. Davis said...

...now, it just costs more money with equal results.


The results are probably better, but I feel as if we are always fighting the last war.