November 4, 2011

Herman Cain's other problem: double-breasted suits.

Robin Givhan, covering the fashion-and-politics zone:
To be sure, Cain’s suits are well cut and he has the stature to carry them. Still, they have always been a curious choice and they have now become ill-advised. He would do well to expunge every double-breasted suit from his wardrobe.

[I]n this more casual age—when the “suits” are feeling the rage of Occupy Wall Street, the Tea Party, and anyone who has helplessly watched the rapid decline of their 401(k)—Cain’s garb carries with it a sort of haughty swagger.
And "haughty swagger" is not what you want "when it’s alleged that Cain wielded his executive power in a sexual and inappropriate way." The sexual harassment charge cuts deep: It deprives a man of his distinctive personal style.

And then there's religion:
[Cain] is an ordained Baptist preacher and a man with a habit of breaking out in gospel song at the slightest provocation. Ministers of a certain persuasion often seem to have a predilection for double-breasted suits, as well as three-piece ones. Some of that must surely be because of tradition and formality, but there is also an element of the hierarchal at work.
Haughtiness... swagger... a "certain persuasion" of religion... if this sounds at least vaguely racial, consider that Givhan herself is black. And she does go on to talk about race:
Black politicians have always had a wider berth when it comes to attire. They often dress more formally to make their authority more evident in a society that might question it. And historically they have been allowed more pizzazz, more personal flair. But Cain’s double-breasted suits don’t come with a creative flourish. They come with a standard yellow four-in-hand and an American flag pin perched on his left lapel. Sometimes he dons a ranger hat, which is about as imaginative as cowboy boots for affecting a down-home cool.
He's black, but he doesn't get the usual leeway black men "have been allowed"... why? I mean, really, why is that? What is she saying? What I hear is: He's not the right kind of black man. He's conservative, so he doesn't get whatever that extra freedom is that is allowed — that the passive voice gives — to black men.

136 comments:

AllenS said...

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Mr. Cain also wears a belt and that his pants are not down around his hips.

pm317 said...

Stay away from those breasts, double-breasts...

Bob Ellison said...

I'm a sartorial idiot, and even I can see that the problem is that Cain actually has a style, unlike every other GOP candidate except...Bachmann.

Then there's Obama: grey suits, white shirts, simple ties. Blue jeans and blue dress shirts with sleeves rolled up. He's practically Mitt Romney!

Maybe this tells us why no woman, even Hillary, has yet been nominated. Style might be a disqualifier.

Scott M said...

And "haughty swagger" is not what you want "when it’s alleged that Cain wielded his executive power in a sexual and inappropriate way."

He should double-down on the swagger.

WV - "rewad" - what a Kennedy gives you if you find their lost puppy.

David said...

NOCD

(Not our class, dear.)

Psychedelic George said...

This is akin to the story that Perry was drunk or high when giving that speech in New Hampshire.

I watched a chunk of it.

The man seemed totally up, happy, exuberant...very Texas, referring to the Bible, talking baseball, etc.

Just his cultural norm. Like Cain.

MadisonMan said...

I like his suits -- because they are well-tailored and they look good on him.

But I'm not a published authority on fashion.

Would he make it on to the Sartorialist's website?

garage mahal said...

Let's take a closer look at those double breasts.

Scott M said...

I think it's telling that we have the luxury of even discussing a candidates clothing style.

T J Sawyer said...

When I worked for Herman at Pillsbury back in the early 1980s, he once gave each member of his direct reports a copy of Molloy's "Dress for Success." Spent the better part of a staff meeting going through it, too.

He wanted his people to "look sharp" just in case he had to introduce us to the CEO in an elevator.

Several of us still talk about it when we get together - and we all think he'd make a hell of a lot better president than anyone else running.

kimsch said...

Doesn't Robin think FLOTUS is a fashion plate?

AFG said...

"And historically they have been allowed more pizzazz, more personal flair."

Or in Cain's case, pizzas.

Curious George said...

I think he should start wearing mom jeans like Barry.

bagoh20 said...

I liked Cain before this, but now forget it. This shows bad judgment, poor decision making, a flawed organization, and proves he's just not ready for prime time. He's not Brokaw quality. We can't risk having those threads in the White House. It could possibly even lead to the ocean beginning to rise again. Think people. This election is serious business.

Lamar63 said...

But what about the crease in his pants? Were the pants perfectly pressed?

How can we decide if Cain will be a good president if they don't give us the information we need?

WV-- preshd. Are his pants perfectly preshd?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Now, now, Althouse. Givhan is black and female. She's allowed her dumbass, partisan, catty drivel.

Patrick said...

Seems like dressing like a target of OWS would be a good thing for a Republican primary candidate. Probably for a Republican general election candidate also.

madAsHell said...

Who's Robin Givhan? ....and why do I give a rat's ass about her opinion?

I think she should check out a motel room with Ketchup.

kimsch said...

Givhans: But Cain’s double-breasted suits don’t come with a creative flourish.

What, are Cain's suits too conservative?

Should Cain dress more like James O'Keefe in his ACORN sting Pimp outfit?

wv: chalc

bagoh20 said...

I would like us to elect a blue collar President. I mean a guy who wears work cloths every day. I want to see his hands to know if he actually knows how to do anything other than smile and lie. That's why men wear suits - it's supposed make you trust them, even though they have soft useless hands, which is a dead giveaway.

traditionalguy said...

One of the three keys to leadership that men instinctively like to follow is to dress sharp. That just is true. Why no one knows, but my guess is that followers want to be proud of their leader's image that they become a part of.

Cain is a leader's leader. That has been his success all his life.

This leadership key was definitely in George Patton's book of tricks, and General Patton was a man who tested every way he could to find what worked the best.

garage mahal said...

Cain's other other problem

Americans for Prosperity investigating itself!

Russell said AFP was trying to “find out the timing and the nature of the transactions.”

“We want to hold off (saying more) in light of potential legal ramifications,” Russell said. AFP is expected to complete its review late next week.


Hang in there Herm!

knox said...

What is she saying?

Good question. I just read the thing and I can't figure it out. Every time she says "but" in the article, what follows makes no sense with what came before it.

bagoh20 said...

The debates should be in the nude, with the lecterns made of huge magnifying glass. We need to judge the man - not his tailor.

I believe this would put Cain over the top and induce people to forgive the charges of sexual harassment as just those women trying to get him back into their lives.

John said...

Would a double breasted person have 1 or 2 pairs of breasts?

Pictures please.

Thank you Ann for reading this crap on style so we don't have too.

You don't charge nearly enough for your services. You could double or triple your price and this blog would still be a bargain.

John Henry

bad touch said...

Herman will " blaze his own trail ", though he could probably hire another pr/handler /media type. for the yorkies in the press.

Scott M said...

Americans for Prosperity investigating itself!

Funny, but not quite as hilarious as the office of ACORN...sorry, I meant, New York Communities For Change...shredding documents and firing people after someone inside leaked that they were paying people to protest down at OWS.

roesch/voltaire said...

Of course the number one defense for Cain is that it is all just racist, and if that doesn't hold play the conservative victim card against the liberal press and those Perry hacks who started this mess. It is sort of the flip side of the liberal defense of Obama against the attack by the right--ironic isn't it?

E.M. Davis said...

Debate in the nude?

Then Palin would have to run.

John said...

TJ Sawyer said:

"He wanted his people to "look sharp" just in case he had to introduce us to the CEO in an elevator."

Great idea and good on him.

Gillette used to have an add that ran "Look sharp, feel sharp, be sharp"

The Marines say that "You can't be a Marine unless you look like a Marine." Its why you generally don't see them running around airports in fatigues.

Proposition Joe said "Look the part, be the part"

I do think it matters. I think if you dress sloppy, you will think and act sloppy. Others will certainly attribute that to you, deserved or not.

It is always better to be overdressed than underdressed.

John Henry

Scott M said...

ironic isn't it?

Not at all. When you reward a specific behavior, you get more of that behavior. Since it worked so well for the Democrats the first time around, human nature dictates its going to rear it's RV head again this time.

E.M. Davis said...

Double-breasted suits are certainly out of style, but they actually fit Cain and his personality quite well.

I think he would look less formidable in a standard two-button suit.

Three-piece suits are coming back. Maybe he needs a vest instead.

bagoh20 said...

Garage's link is exactly what I expected. You can tell the threat and quality of a candidate by what kind of things they try to make into scandal.

"Charities are barred by law from political and electoral activities because of their special IRS status. ".

Yea, we can't have that. Any candidate associated with anyone found violating this should be disqualified.

I suspect Obama's violations of this enter into the nine figure range.

Well, you could always just vote for me. I'm clean on this.

DaveW said...

His suits also sport peak lapels. I've always thought those look wrong on a mature man, and you might note none of the other candidates wear them.

It's one thing for the football analysts to wear that stuff, it's a completely different thing for a GOP presidential candidate.

I can't recall a Pub presidential candidate wearing that sort of fashion-forward garb, and I think Cain is ill served in his choices there.

traditionalguy said...

Saturday at 8:00PM EST C-Span will carry the Cain/Gingrich unconventional debate.

Tune in and watch the two Georgian's polite exchange of ideas.(Maybe later the Perry and Romney Campaigns will arrange a Jerry Springer style slander-o-thon.)

I put my money on Herman the Executive to win the best dressed award over a History professor.

Scott M said...

Well, you could always just vote for me. I'm clean on this.

Garage would need an ID to vote, though, don't forget, and that would disenfranchise him.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

bagoh20 said...

Well, you could always just vote for me. I'm clean on this.

Yes, but are you articulate?

bagoh20 said...

I've been a CEO for two decades and I think I've had on a suit maybe a dozen times. Those were some of the least productive days in my career - just below a couple when I slept on my office floor with a hangover.

Shouting Thomas said...

Cain is as astonishingly inappropriate!

Do you remember that great sin of the 90s... Inappropriation!

Now the story can be told! I, too... Shouting Thomas... was the helpless victim of sexual harassment.

I have survived to tell the story.

bagoh20 said...

Yesterday I went to work in tie-dyed scrubs. I don't even try to fool anyone.

MadisonMan said...

Ya gotta Look Sharp!

TWM said...

"Then Palin would have to run."

Yeah, but what if Hillary jumps in?

Shouting Thomas said...

By the way, I love these bits about how the current leftist fashion is going to eradicate hierarchy.

That's been a staple of the left all my life, and I'm 62!

Somehow, this great crusade never reaches fulfillment.

The Weathermen tried all sorts of tactics to wipe out hierarchy. Public humiliation. Re-education. Assigning members to sleep with other members on a rotating basis.

And, still, hierarchy continues to this day!

Bill Dalasio said...

Is it me or does Givhan's complaint almost seem like it's that Cain's choice of high end attire is insufficiently clownish? I mean, implicit is the complaint that his choice of the clothes seems to natural, rather than affected.

ndspinelli said...

I guess the black woman is saying he's "uppity." Quite ironic.

garage mahal said...

In a recent Givhan column Althouse riffs that Michelle Obama's red dress signified.......you guessed it. Communism!

write_effort said...

When I was growing up in very Northern European rural America, the only Black member of our church (or community) was a farm hand who came to church on Sundays in a doubled-breasted pinstripe suit with an imposing tie. I used to stare at him. His race, his clothes, and his "aloneness" made a great impression on me.

MayBee said...

I always thought style was not about following fashion trends.

There's a lot to be said about finding what looks good on you and sticking with it.

Oso Negro said...

Psychedelic George,

I AM a Texan, and you sir, know nothing of Texas or Texans if you believe Perry's performance in New Hampshire to be typical of adult male Texas culture.

Psychedilic George said this:

"This is akin to the story that Perry was drunk or high when giving that speech in New Hampshire.

I watched a chunk of it.

The man seemed totally up, happy, exuberant...very Texas, referring to the Bible, talking baseball, etc.

Just his cultural norm. Like Cain."


Nope. Just not true. No Texan acts like Perry did in that video with the potential exception of folks in the Little Theater set in Montrose. I doubt he can be re-elected Governor of Texas once that performance makes the rounds.

Big Mike said...

@ndspinelli, that was my first thought, too.

dogzilla said...

It's been quite a lot of fun watching the Communist-Socialist-Marxist-Feminist-Humanist-Racist Left implode like this. They just do not care anymore--the facades are collapsing daily. And each accusation against every Republican or conservative seems to demonstrate just how desperate they are becoming.

Heh. Popcorn, anyone?

I couldn't tell you the first thing about Herman Cain's suits. He looks sharp and I enjoy his "swagger." He is up-beat and positive in a way that drives self-loathing Americans wild. I love that about him. Like Sarah Palin, Mr. Cain loves God and Country, and it shows. Would he make a good President? I don't know. But I think I'd be willing to give him the chance to succeed.

William said...

If a Republican referred to Obama's haughty swagger, Ms. Givhan would immediately know that this was code for uppity.....Cain is well dressed, but that hat is suspect....In a democracy, we should prefer Cincinattus to Caesar, Eisenhower to Patton. A leader should be well dressed, but too much flair is vainglorious. We want someone whose modesty is intstinctive. Cain's hat is the male equivalent of showing too much cleavage.

Michael said...

I doubt we will see President Cain in mom jeans. I hope to God he has a throwing arm although one would have to be pretty bad to be as bad as Obama on that count.

Double-breasted suits are a click up in formality from single breasted and it appears that his fabrics are pretty traditional. I wish he dressed like Cab Calloway and told Robin G to shove it up her ass.

garage mahal said...

The settlement between Cain's accuser and the NRA was dated 9/99. Weird!

edutcher said...

She sounds as if she's scared he'll take the black vote away from GodZero.

I mean, Zero's lost his cool while Herman has swagger.

TWM said...

"Then Palin would have to run."

Yeah, but what if Hillary jumps in?


Catfight!

Balfegor said...

Re: DaveW:

His suits also sport peak lapels. I've always thought those look wrong on a mature man, and you might note none of the other candidates wear them.

He's wearing double breasted suits. Of course they have peak lapels -- it's traditional. And it's traditional for a reason. When you just look at the head shot, notch lapels look fine, but notch lapels on a double breasted suit look weird and unbalanced when you see the full body.

Also, old-fashioned snobs will sneer at you (the new-fashioned snobs will, of course, sneer at you for wearing a suit in the first place, since they signal their wealth and power by coming in to work in jeans and flipflops).

Re: AllenS:

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Mr. Cain also wears a belt and that his pants are not down around his hips.

Good heavens, man! I'm sure he wears braces.

Re: E.M. Davis:

Three-piece suits are coming back. Maybe he needs a vest instead.

And a pocketwatch on a chain. I need one of those myself, come to think of it.

Allie's Apple said...

Garage said;
In a recent Givhan column Althouse riffs that Michelle Obama's red dress signified.......you guessed it. Communism!

11/4/11 10:04 AM
I remember that beautiful red dress and others making similar comments, well I guess the Rs should rethink red as their party's color..

traditionalguy said...

Garage...and the settlement was $45,000. Hmmm.

And did you see that Cain will attend a Koch brothers sponsored event. Maybe they will give the Hermanator a 45,000 donation.

Scott M said...

The settlement between Cain's accuser and the NRA was dated 9/99. Weird!

LOL, that is odd.

MayBee said...

I remember the red dress MO wore for the leader of communist red China.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I would like for Cain at the next press conference to wear the tuxedo that Vinnie Gambino wore with the same attitude.

(just watch the first minute or so of the clip to get the idea about the suit)

Seriously, if THIS is one of the biggest issues we focus on about the candidates....whether they are wearing double breasted suits or not, we are either in bigger trouble than we ever could imagine, or we are in such great shape and have no problems whatsoever to focus on.

I think the former and not the latter.

OR....we are so screwed.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, what's the real complaint against Cain?

Is all this really a cover for saying that he's got a big black dick?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I wish he dressed like Cab Calloway and told Robin G to shove it up her ass.

Ha ha ha. That really made me laugh.

Dressed like this?

Or THIS That would be awesome!

Laika's Last Woof said...

Clinton swaggered all over the Monica scandals.
"That depends on what your definition of the word 'is' is."
By any definition of "swagger" that pretty much takes the cake.

Unless the allegations against Cain somehow rise above the Monica threshold why wouldn't swagger work just as well?

Michael said...

The leftist objective of removing hierarchy via dressing down has been a resounding success abetted by rich Hollywood sorts. We are near, or perhaps beyond, the point where the suit and tie qualifies one to be shunned.

Oddly it has not reduced the one percent. They have simply blended in. Hard to identify the snooty rich boys when they are in rags.

Hoosier Daddy said...

If you gonna be impotent, you gotta look impotent.

edutcher said...

Shouting Thomas said...

So, what's the real complaint against Cain?

Is all this really a cover for saying that he's got a big black dick?


Maybe just that it's a lot bigger than Zero's.

traditionalguy said...

The US Army leadership schools for officers is doing continuous research on the characteristics of leaders that followers like to follow.

That sounds so obvious, but it is a fact the officers do poorly at the leadership skill and a few do well and are naturals.

It is requires more than one characteristic in leading differing personality types, but the sharp dressed image was a necessary component for a leader all types to create a leader that a followers liked to follow.

My wife published her research on this theory with intense work using the 48th Inf Brigade GNG between their 3 deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 7 years. The Army is her best customer for the book. (And she is the smartest woman that I know, at least as smart as The Professor.)

Scott M said...

They have simply blended in. Hard to identify the snooty rich boys when they are in rags.

That's true. You have to wait for the next day's police blotter before you google up their address and see that they were raised in half million dollar homes.

Oligonicella said...

People who focus on clothes are exactly as shallow as said garments (ie: skin deep).

Oligonicella said...

John --

"It is always better to be overdressed than underdressed."

Better to look like a stuffed shirt than a working slob? Don't think so.

Hoosier Daddy said...

A liberals worst nightmare is a successful conservative black man who has a shot at the Presidency.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I've long really admired Mr. Cain's double-breasted suits. During the last debate, I was commenting to my husband how I wished more men would wear them. (though not my husband, first, because he doesn't wear suits, and second, because he's slim and not particularly tall, and I can't imagine them on him)

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Black politicians have always had a wider berth when it comes to attire. They often dress more formally to make their authority more evident in a society that might question it.


I found that interesting, because it seems like women do something different. High level women often dress more informally- witness Michelle Bachmann, who has often avoided suits, and even wore that weird sweater thing that one debate. I see this with female attorneys in court a lot, too- you can always tell the male attorneys from the male clients, but can't always tell who's a female attorney.

Why is that? (I wear a suit a lot, first because I like them, but secondly because I do try to avoid being mistaken for a paralegal/secretary.)

Anthony said...

At Althouse, no matter the subject, no matter the issue, it always comes down to breasts.

Love said...

A conservatives worst nightmare is an intelligent, highly educated, successful liberal black man being elected President.

They'll do anything they can to denigrate him personally and any accomplishments while in office.

They spread lies relating to his birth place, rumors about his religious beliefs, even going so far as to criticize his wife for trying to get American to improve their diets to fend off obesity and disease.

It's all they've got.

Love said...

Scott M - "That's true. You have to wait for the next day's police blotter before you google up their address and see that they were raised in half million dollar homes."

Yeah, it's obvious they're all from incredibly wealthy families.

Sure...not like G.W. or Mitt...and others of their ilk who had to fight and claw their way to the top.

Scott M said...

At Althouse, no matter the subject, no matter the issue, it always comes down to breasts.

That remark is highly offensive and titillating.

(sorry...it was low-hanging melon)

Scott M said...

Sure...not like G.W. or Mitt...and others of their ilk who had to fight and claw their way to the top.

Neither are protestors. A more apt comparison would have been with the tea party, but you failed to note the complete non-sequitur of your own comment.

Nice try though. You're coming along nicely.

Love said...

Shouting Thomas said..."So, what's the real complaint against Cain? Is all this really a cover for saying that he's got a big black dick?"

Based on the complaints coming to light it sounds more like HE'S the big dick.

It appears most here are in favor of sexual harassment and that women should just keep their yaps shut.

Love said...

Scott - So you're pretty much against Americans having the right to protest?

Same for the Tea Party members...or just those with whom you disagree?

Ken Green said...

Humor on:

Well, to be politically correct, Cain should stop wearing suits altogether, as they require extra heating/cooling in order to be comfortable, which causes global warming.

And, traditional suits emphasize the shoulders and forearms, which are masculine features that women might find offensive.

Clearly, Cain needs to start wearing dresses, or perhaps sack-cloth and ashes.

Or, perhaps, t-shirts with pictures of kittens on them - even raging, global-warming obsessed liberal women like kittens.

Oh, and swaggering is out. I suggest that he study how to shuffle, swish, or mince.

And that handshake! Too vigorous! He needs to just dangle his fingers appealingly. And nail polish! Don't forget the polish!

Finally, hymns are out, Union songs would be best, but funeral dirges would be acceptable.

Humor off

garage mahal said...

Still no conservatives measuring and then commenting on the size of Gloria Cain's ass? Now is the time people, before it's too late!

Love said...

Scott thinks the protesters are all from wealthy families...as if living in a half million dollar home constitutes "wealth."

I don't.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Based on the complaints coming to light it sounds more like HE'S the big dick.

Hmm, that makes it sound like you actually know what he's specifically alleged to have said or done (beyond "make someone uncomfortable"). Couldja tip the rest of us off, please? If you're the sort who wants to actually think before he or she chooses sides, it would really help to have some actual facts.

Love said...

Instead of concentrating on what he wears, Mr. Cain should put more effort into telling the truth.

He knows full well that he'll never actually run for President and that this is all related to higher speaking fees and a future with Fox.

There's an established pattern already in place.

traditionalguy said...

Garage...Gloria Cain's ass is a petite like the rest of her.

garage mahal said...

Trad
How are you so sure about that? Have seen a good unobstructed shot of her ass?

What about BLING BLING? Does she garden? These are all things that absolutely crucial to our Republic. [as you know well].

Love said...

lyssalovelyredhead - I never said that I knew exactly what transpired.

I said that, "Based on the complaints coming to light it sounds more like HE'S the big dick."

Are you saying there have been no complaints coming to light? That he or the organization he ran was not forced to pay "settlements?"

If you're really interested, why not drop him a note and have him waive all confidentiality in all matters?

Are you saying you don't think women should file such complaints?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Love said: Scott thinks the protesters are all from wealthy families...as if living in a half million dollar home constitutes "wealth."

I don't.


Wow, really? I do. I grew up in an 88K house (late eighties-nineties, Zillow says its worth $126K today), and in a household where money was tight enough that my mom would borrow from my horded babysitting money to make it through a lot of months, but we always had food, education, heat/cooling, and medical care when needed. Looking at the world, and even the country, I feel that I was extraordinarily lucky and fabulously wealthy.

I'm thankful for it every day. What kind of spoiled brat could possibly think that a 500K house isn't good enough?

Love said...

Speaking of big dicks...it appears this one is finally beginning to understand what is necessary:

WASHINGTON -- House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday that any bipartisan agreement reached by the congressional deficit-reduction supercommittee will need to include some new tax revenue.

*Pass this on to the Republicans that have signed a "taxpayer protection pledge."

Scott M said...

Scott - So you're pretty much against Americans having the right to protest?

Please show me where I said anything of the sort. Alphaliberal warned you couple days ago that I misrepresented people's words. I see now it was a copy/paste error and he really meant you.

Scott M said...

What kind of spoiled brat could possibly think that a 500K house isn't good enough?

A couple of hundred thousand above the median home value constitutes quite a bit more house in most bergs. In order to swing that, yes, you have to be significantly more "wealthy" than those struggling to afford the median.

David R. Graham said...

"Allowed" ... ? ... "Allowed" ... ??? ... "Allowed" ... ???? ...

The girl who wrote that is "still on the plantation."

"Allowed!" ... indeed! How self-demeaning and all unnecessary. The strong self-abnegate, the weak self-demean.

Allie's Apple said...

The only good thing I've heard conservatives say about Obama is " oh well at least he appears to be a good family man". If he ever so much as sniffed after anther woman, it would've been all over the media in a heartbeat.

Clothes do not make the man.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Are you saying there have been no complaints coming to light? That he or the organization he ran was not forced to pay "settlements?"

So, you don't know what allegedly happened. At least I know I haven't missed anything. Are you saying that simply being accused of a wrongdoing should be treated as having done one, even if no one says what the wrongdoing was?

Are you saying you don't think women should file such complaints?

There's no possible way that you could have gotten that conclusion from my questioning of what he has been accused of. But, if the complaint was merely "I felt uncomfortable" without being able to show anything that the person actually did, then yes, absolutely, women should not make those complaints.

If he did something that was worth complaining about, then it is not asking too much to demand to know what, exactly, he did.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Still no conservatives measuring and then commenting on the size of Gloria Cain's ass? Now is the time people, before it's too late!

I don't think we've seen her ass as of yet. However, the media aren't trying to make out like Mrs. Cain is the best fashion icon since Jackie O.

Re: a 500K house. In some areas of California, that would be a garage or an 800 sq ft shack in Berkeley Hills.

It is relative. But still...it IS 500K and most people don't live in even shacks priced that high.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Are you saying there have been no complaints coming to light? That he or the organization he ran was not forced to pay "settlements?"

So, you don't know what allegedly happened. At least I know I haven't missed anything. Are you saying that simply being accused of a wrongdoing should be treated as having done one, even if no one says what the wrongdoing was?

Are you saying you don't think women should file such complaints?

There's no possible way that you could have gotten that conclusion from my questioning of what he has been accused of. But, if the complaint was merely "I felt uncomfortable" without being able to show anything that the person actually did, then yes, absolutely, women should not make those complaints.

If he did something that was worth complaining about, then it is not asking too much to demand to know what, exactly, he did.

My WV have been awesome lately: "Mantag"

Love said...

lyssalovelyredhead said..."What kind of spoiled brat could possibly think that a 500K house isn't good enough?"

Can you provide any quotes from anybody who has said any such thing?

Love said...

Scott - You whine incessantly about the Wall Street protesters..."protesting"...because you don't agree with what they protest.

It's their right, just as it is yours.

Blathering on about how much their homes might cost is nothing more than the usual right wing tripe.

Our Founding Fathers weren't exactly paupers...or have you never taken the time to read the history of America?

Love said...

lyssalovelyredhead - Once again:

"Are you saying there have been no complaints coming to light? That he or the organization he ran was not forced to pay 'settlements?'"

lyssalovelyredhead - "If he did something that was worth complaining about, then it is not asking too much to demand to know what, exactly, he did."

How can we ever know if he never waives confidentiality?

Scott M said...

Scott - You whine incessantly about the Wall Street protesters..."protesting"...because you don't agree with what they protest.

You're going to have to define "incessantly" as I don't think you're using the normative version of that word.

Further, please show me where once I have ever said anything about the OWS protestors' rights. If you can point it out, I will duly apologize for the mistake, as I fully believe they have a right to protest anything their dear little hearts desire. Short of that, of course, how about you shut the fuck up on the matter, especially as it pertains things I've never said?

ken in sc said...

Republicans did not adopt red as a color. Assigning red to Republican states was done by one of the major networks during a previous election, and it just stuck. It's unfortunate and I think it was done deliberately to avoid tagging the Democrats as obvious reds.

garage mahal said...

I don't think we've seen her ass as of yet. However, the media aren't trying to make out like Mrs. Cain is the best fashion icon since Jackie O.

Well if there's one thing we need to monitor, it's what glamour magazines are talking about. I'll keep a close eye out for you though for any puff pieces.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

How can we ever know if he never waives confidentiality?

I don't believe that Cain has the power to do that since the confidential agreement was between the claimant and her lawyer and the legal representation of the company.

"The settlement agreement between the National Restaurant Association and a woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment was reached in September 1999--and was not signed by Cain himself, according to Joel Bennett, a lawyer for the woman.

Bennett, who has a copy of the settlement agreement, said four people signed it: the woman, two lawyers representing the association and Bennett himself."

Furthermore even the claimants lawyer says that Cain probably didn't know about the agreement.

"Bennett said the agreement was resolved relatively quickly, about two or three months after she complained.

That means it may have been reached after Cain left the association, and Bennett said it's conceivable that Cain didn't even know about it"

Dust Bunny Queen said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57318500-503544/cain-did-not-sign-settlement-accusers-lawyer-says/

Link to the above quoted statements by the claimants attorney. From that right wing mouthpiece CBS.

Balfegor said...

Scott - You whine incessantly about the Wall Street protesters..."protesting"...because you don't agree with what they protest.

It's their right, just as it is yours
.

I'm pretty sure that technically Zucotti Park is private property. They're entitled to protest, but their protesting in their present location is enabled by the forbearance/cowardice of the owner whose property they've seized.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

How can we ever know if he never waives confidentiality?

Mr. Cain was not party to the agreements; he does not have the power to grant a waiver.

If we don't know what happened, then we can't condemn it. Simple as that.

- Lyssa

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Love said: lyssalovelyredhead said..."What kind of spoiled brat could possibly think that a 500K house isn't good enough?"

Can you provide any quotes from anybody who has said any such thing?


Yes, you, at 11:27 a.m., said "as if living in a half million dollar home constitutes "wealth." I don't [think that]."

Now, please explain to me what kind of spoiled brat lifestyle a person has to lead to think that a half-million dollar home is not good enough to constitute "wealthy."

Allie's Apple said...

Strange , in one breath conservatives say the most liberals are tax eaters, welfare mommas, food stamp recipients, users, moochers, etc. YET when they discover that a liberal may have some personal wealth , they are "spolied brats".

Scott M said...

Strange , in one breath conservatives say the most liberals are tax eaters, welfare mommas, food stamp recipients, users, moochers, etc. YET when they discover that a liberal may have some personal wealth , they are "spolied brats".

You're confusing liberals with their constituents.

J said...

Lest we forget Cain also claims to be close friends with Alan Greenspan. So he's got the power of Ayn Rand behind him too ,along with the baptick church--.Lucifer, and Jeebuss,togetha! With that sort of winning combination, you know the brutha' s a mutha-f-in' contendah.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Actually, Allie's Apple, I just said that anyone who thinks that a 500K house isn't "wealth" is a spoiled brat. (And I've never said anything about liberals and welfare, etc.) Doesn't matter to me whether that person is liberal or not; they're still a brat.

But go on, pretend that you some how showed some sense of a point there.

MayBee said...

Actually, Allie's Apple, I just said that anyone who thinks that a 500K house isn't "wealth" is a spoiled brat. (And I've never said anything about liberals and welfare, etc.) Doesn't matter to me whether that person is liberal or not; they're still a brat.

I would say a 500k house isn't wealth, especially if there's a $650K mortgage on it.
I think it indicates someone who has a nice lifestyle, but not wealth.

I promise you I'm not a spoiled brat. I just live in California.

Allie's Apple said...

Lyssa did I say YOU personally called liberals moochers etc? You are quite touchy this AM.

J said...

Wow Byro-"Love", Romney supporter- and...white supremacist doing his liberal housewife schtick for the A-tards again--yo, let's stream it to your right-wing Sac congregation, liar.

Grazi for evidence, maricon

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Lyssa did I say YOU personally called liberals moochers etc?

Oh, so who else used the term "spoiled brat"? Or are you claiming that you were just making a random observation which was unrelated to anything else on the thread?

Nora said...

Tea Party has an issue with double breasted suits? Thanks for letting me know, Ms Givhan.

Double breasted suit brings Humphrey Bogart to my mind.

edutcher said...

Love said...

A conservatives worst nightmare is an intelligent, highly educated, successful liberal black man being elected President.

And when an intelligent, highly educated, successful liberal black man is elected President, be sure to let us know.

traditionalguy said...

Careful J. Herman will put the 999 hex on you and lower your taxes.

And thanks for the comparison of Herman with Brando in On the Waterfront.

Herman can call his next PAC the "On the Potomac PAC."

We should look out for Herman so he can be a contender...not give him a one way ticket to palooka-ville.

And is it true that J stands for Johnny Friendly?

traditionalguy said...

Garage...You will pleasantly surprised at Gloria Cain's main feature. She radiates love from her heart.

Which is why Herman keeps Gloria away from campaigning where she would be crushed at the hardness of people's hearts.

This is more of the Cain is Truman repeat itself history.

J said...

that's right, deep thinkah.

Tho' Cainstein's no Terry Malloy--well, IQ's probably close.

Nora said...

Love said...
How can we ever know if he never waives confidentiality?

How do you know that it's Cain that refuses to wave the confidentiality and nor his purported victim? Can you refer me to your source, please.

Christopher in MA said...

"If he ever so much as sniffed after another woman, it would be all over the media in a heartbeat."

That you could write that after the example of Silky Pony shows you to be either disingenuous to an alarming degree or just about to tip over the edge into utter hackery. It also shows you've never heard - or, more precisely, never been allowed to hear - of Vera Baker.

But then, there's also the rumor du jour that Little Black Jesus' "sniffing" is geared more to Kal Penn than Vera Baker. Either way, your childlike faith in the willingness of the MFM to actually investigate rumors of the SCOAMF's tomcatting is touching.

beast said...

Guess what robin there a lot more non-metro voters than metro voters.

Amartel said...

Wah wah wah. He's conservative therefore bad therefore his suit is bad, and his hat and boots too. Hey, Robin Givhan, your bigotry is showing. Not stylish!

Cain has great style and is bringing back the sharp dressed man. No more slump-shouldered, single-breasted, baggy, unconstructed, drone-dressing suits. From now on, double-breasted, tailored, but not showy.

Methadras said...

So is Cain pimp or not pimp enough? I don't get it.

J said...

The entire Cain candidacy was probably cooked up by Ann the Man Coulter and some of her cronies(ie Steele)--that is, after some deep pockets greased her up with....somethin somethin'. Guccione, Bushco/neocons, Cain--the whore works hard for the shekels.

Kirk Parker said...

"They often dress more formally to make their authority more evident ..."

Ok so far...

"...in a society that might question it."

BZZZT! Thanks for trying to play! (Or maybe that should be "I see what you did"--i.e. thanks for trying to deceive us!)

Has Givhan ever been to Africa? Or even inside a black church on Sunday morning? Plenty of exercising the formal-wear authority with nary a white person in sight...

rhhardin said...

"Herman Cain's Other Double-Breasted Problem"

Love said...

lyssalovelyredhead "as if living in a half million dollar home constitutes "wealth."

So you think someone living in a $500,000 home is wealthy?

Based on the fact that the "median" home price in California is about $350,000...damn near half of the California residents are "wealthy?"

Love said...

Considering the fact that Cain is the accused, and was serving as the head of the association at the time, he most certainly can give his permission to waive all confidentiality.

Whether they do so is another matter.

I do find it rather amusing that the regular conservatives here are suddenly all up in arms, defending someone who at least three women have accused of sexual harassment, two of which were paid off to go away.

If this was a Democrat you would all be screaming to high heaven for a complete accounting of all facts related to the incidents and parties involved.

What a hoot.

Amartel said...

Love is blind.

Also, stupid.

Scott M said...

two of which were paid off to go away

Complete mischaracterization of what happened. Those women chose, on the advise of their attorneys, I'd wager, to accept the settlement. If you know why they did that, please explain it to the rest of us.

If this was a Democrat you would all be screaming to high heaven for a complete accounting of all facts related to the incidents and parties involved.

I don't care what party the candidate is from. I call for all the facts to be known simply because the person in question is running for the highest elected office in the country. Please feel free to twist that into the ideological axiomatic "truth" of your choice.

As you appear to be an unbiased apostle of moderation, I trust if the ball bounces in Cain's favor, you'll admit as much and we'll all get on with our lives. If it takes a settlee hop, fine. As long as the facts are out and it doesn't look like anyone is getting railroaded, they gets what they gets.

Methadras said...

Love said...

If this was a Democrat you would all be screaming to high heaven for a complete accounting of all facts related to the incidents and parties involved.


We are you dumbfuck. I've said in no uncertain terms that these women should be released by Cain to speak public ally and let's see it all out there and what these women have to say. Whoever leaked this story was none of them and if I were them I'd sue the leaker, but guess what? That would mean their stories would come under scrutiny out in public, sort of like now, but without all the anonymity getting in the way. The time to put up or shut up is now.

JAL said...

Wasn't Givan the one who was so catty about someone ele in public eye -- Palin? Can't remember now -- think it was about hair.

So much important commentary ... so little time.

Have to do a search.

wv gryisili
Yes, it is.