October 7, 2011

The difference between Occupy Wall Street and the Wisconsin protests.

Andy Kroll at Mother Jones identifies 3 main differences

1. Different organizers: In Wisconsin, "the day after Republicans reclaimed the state Legislature and the governor's mansion, union leaders began plotting how to respond to the looming assault on organized labor.... From their command center in Madison's only unionized hotel, labor turned out more than a 100,000 supporters in a span of weeks." But the Occupy Wall Street protesters were responded to a prompt from Adbusters magazine and then grew "almost entirely without institutional support, an organic groundswell without leaders or executive boards or much structure at all."

2. Different goals: The Wisconsin protests, at their height, were focused on something quite specific: defeating Gov. Walker's budget reform bill. "Occupy Wall Street so far has had no clear set of demands—and intentionally so, it seems."

3. Different reaction from the police: Here in Madison, the police mostly accommodated the huge crowds that besieged the state Capitol. In NYC, the cops have cracked down.

Kroll also lists 2 similarities. Both sets of protesters: 1. used social media, and 2. ate pizza.

ADDED: As for that seemingly intentional lack of demands... I think of this:

55 comments:

Toshtu said...

Capitalism will collapse by next Tuesday, at the latest.

garage mahal said...

I doubt OWS would be spring up all over the country without the Wisconsin uprising.

Toshtu said...

Organizer Anthony Bondi said he has what he referred to as a “message team” working on the primary goals of the local protests, which he admitted “was kind of vague.”

“That message team will reveal that tomorrow [Friday] morning,” Bondi said.

“So you guys are in the process of forming the reasons why you are here?” asked CBS13 reporter Tony Lopez.

“Exactly correct,” Bondi said.

wv: antis. That's the message

garage mahal said...

*springing

traditionalguy said...

Empowerment is the drug that mobs get high on.

They don't need a reason to get high. They only need permission.

Obama has spent his professional life carefully tempting mobs with permission to get high and disrupt civil life.

Obama then uses them like his personal pit bulls to demand shakedown cash from the civil society.

The recent Wisconsin test run helped the organizers develop the best chants that get their pit bulls to go off.

The winning chant is, " Kill the rich, kill the rich, kill the rich."

Obama is the Lord of the Flies, and he is angry because he knows that his time as Lord is short.

IMO Cain is the best antidote that we can get for this. Perry or Romney would only play into Obama's narrative.

Bob Ellison said...

Wait 'til the occupy movement hits Augusta! The cry will ring out: "You're tearing ME apart!"

Lem said...

It a branch of the Pelosian Political hypothesis..

They have to protest first to know what you are protesting about.

Sacramento

DCS said...

I guess it was too much to expect the authors of the "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City" to produce a coherent statement of grievances.What they did do was crib from the Declaration of Independence, specifically the section charging one man, King George II, with a myriad of offenses.

The new Declaration substitutes "corporations" for King George and mentions every pet lefty cause from the "torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices," to
"[holding]students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is, itself, a human right."

I could go on about the poor writing that begs for a seventh grade English teacher. Here's an example: "They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit."

Yeah, that faulty bookkeeping is a real bitch!

I shouldn't be surprised that Keith Olbermann read it out loud on "Countdown" My respect for Keith hasn't gone down because it was already at zero.

EDH said...

Lem nails it!

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
I doubt OWS would be spring up all over the country without the Wisconsin uprising

Uh Yeah garage, unless you missed the Seattle Riots and all the “fun” surrounding the G-8/World Bank Meetings…let’s be honest, Leftists don’t need much of an excuse to take to the streets, in Wisconsin or NYC.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Flopupy!!!!

wdnelson93 said...

Okay, this Occupy movement has a personal benefit in that it keeps me thinking of the Biblical command "occupy till I come". Interesting that the word the current version of protesters have chosen gives reference to a verse on making wise financial investments.

"occupy till I come" is in the old King James.
Newer versions say:
"put this money to work" (NIV)
"engage in business" (ESV)
"invest" (New Living)

Bless their hearts.

Deanna

vet66 said...

The only class warfare I see so far is those with class as opposed to those with no class. This entitlement meltdown is symptomatic of withdrawal from a dependency on an unending supply of free money with no responsibility attached.

One must assume that the rioters in Greece and Italy are communicating with the layabout loons in the U.S. mindlessly protesting at the behest of their controllers. This insanity will continue until the first hint of winter hits the air.

Springtime will see the pachouli hit the fan. This election will be a Rubicon event for the business of anarchy.

Writ Small said...

Rebels without a clue.

Titus said...

How awful must it be for Romney.

The Republican Establishment seems to be rallying around him yet the "base" hates his guts.

Poor Mittens.

Sue D'Nhym said...

But the Occupy Wall Street protesters were responded to a prompt from Adbusters magazine and then grew "almost entirely without institutional support, an organic groundswell without leaders or executive boards or much structure at all."

This is asserted. I do not think it should be taken at face value. I read a story earlier today where one of the "community organizers" involved in the LA version of this protest admitted that at least some of those protesting with him were not volunteers.

edutcher said...

What vet66 said.

The points of difference are interesting, but point 1 may be a little inaccurate. The public sector unions and Congressional Democrats, as well as the Rathke brothers and SEIU, have now thrown their "weight" behind the "protests".

garage mahal said...

I doubt OWS would be spring up all over the country without the Wisconsin uprising.

Yes, it worked so well.

AJ Lynch said...

Lem said:

"They have to protest first to know what you are protesting about."

That deserves some Instapundit linkage!

Maguro said...

Oh, it's an "uprising" now? How romantic. Can hardly wait 'til the movie comes out.

Joanna said...

"almost entirely without institutional support, an organic groundswell without leaders or executive boards or much structure at all."

mhmm
Sounds about right.
Yep.

ndspinelli said...

Much better apizza in NY. Wide stance so you don't drip grease on your shoes..w/ a grape soda.

Hoosier Daddy said...

This grassroots uprising should really be scaring the piss out of Obama since his 2008 campaign was funded in large part by the Wall Street crooks.

Joanna said...

Conveniently, Obama began fundraising efforts early...

Hoosier Daddy said...

I also wonder which corporations specifically are the targets of the whiner's ire? McDonalds, Firestone, Motorola, Amazon, Eli Lily, Applebees? Garage's employer who pays him so well he drives a BMW and buys $1100 puppies?

Cause those are all corporations.

Joanna said...

Apparently, some protesters in DC were paid. Yay, capitalism.

edutcher said...

ndspinelli said...

Much better apizza in NY. Wide stance so you don't drip grease on your shoes..w/ a grape soda.

Grape soda???

Why not make it orange or black cherry wishniak and really ruin it.

edutcher said...

Joanna said...

Apparently, some protesters in DC were paid. Yay, capitalism.

Five will get you ten they're not alone - and more than some - if the Rathke brothers and SEIU are involved.

Especially since they've got Dr Evil's money to play with.

wdnelson93 said...

Hoosier - one of our local radio talking heads was on that yesterday. Yesterday was PFD (Permanent Fund Dividend) day in AK, an annual payout of oil investment profits - $1,100+ this year for every Alaskan. Radio host: "Where are all the protesters that occupied Town Square yesterday? Why aren't they here today burning up their checks - ill-gotten gains as they are from all the evil oil companies?"

Well, this family is grateful. Our kids will all get a mouthful of metal this fall thanks to that little bonus to our bank acct.

Deanna

wv: ceshedin - the orthodontist is also grateful no doubt.

Michael said...

But wait, the Alaska Permanent Fund is seeded with money that comes from evil,evil,evil oil. Please disgorge those obscene profits now. Thanks.

Jay said...

Occupy Wall Street so far has had no clear set of demands

Uh, they articulated the demands rather clearly.

Watching these leftists lie is rather pathetic.

Peter said...

WHY does anyone think MADISON was the inspiration for these protests?

Surely the London riots would be a more likely source of inspiration??

geoffb said...

Organized? Oh yeah.

LordSomber said...

My favorite sign seen here:

"Taxes Make Jobs"

And to think I live in a university town.

Methadras said...

Ah yes, the vague and nebulous leftard mob seeking recriminations for a vague and nebulous reason to get together and protest against what they perceive are the evil institutions that should pony up their fair share so that the US government, one of the worlds largest failures can confiscatorily tax you to take more of your money to continue the failure en masse. And when you ask these fools why they are there, they can't tell you, but it's so cool to be seen as being against something that is vague and nebulous afterall right? Useful idiots.

Sigivald said...

"Occupy Wall Street so far has had no clear set of demands—and intentionally so, it seems."

"We're going to keep Occupying Not-Quite-Wall-Street and cities across America until our unspecified demands are met!."

That sure is compelling; the parallels (often mentioned by supporters) with the Civil Rights and Suffrage movements are obvious.

Alex said...

The WI uprising and OWS is a direct response to the 2010 GOP junta. We will not stand for this. No justice, no peace!

Alex said...

We all know Media Matters is not behind this.

Cedarford said...

vet66 said...
The only class warfare I see so far is those with class as opposed to those with no class. This entitlement meltdown is symptomatic of withdrawal from a dependency on an unending supply of free money with no responsibility attached.

One must assume that the rioters in Greece and Italy are communicating with the layabout loons in the U.S. mindlessly protesting at the behest of their controllers. This insanity will continue until the first hint of winter hits the air.

Springtime will see the pachouli hit the fan
=======================
It is not as simplistic as the " unclassy layabout loons" vs. the classy, champagne sipping hard working "Jobs Creators" and "Stewards of Our Peerless Wall Street corporations, finanace industry".

People are plenty pissed at the people that bought out both parties, effectively nullified the will of the voters, screwed every investor in their path with poisoned and falsely safe-rated securities. Who threaten the future of most American workers. The fatcats who got trillions in bailouts without a single one of them going up on fraud charges.
The same fatcats that also hatched up global job outsourcing, free trade with China, zero taxes on GE.

Youth are just the tip of the iceberg in the 2/3rds of the populace that believe there is something deeply, deeply wrong and corrupted with the System.

Ignore a couple of individuals with their own lame dumb list of demands. The anger is with the Rubins, Geithners, Dodds, Dick Fulds, Greenbergs, Franklin Rains sorts - anger that is as of yet inchoate...
It won't be inchoate or focused on the rambling list of demands of one stoner in the mob much longer. Anymore than the French Revolution was on the list of demands of a single peasant.

The more intelligent demands will soon form. Whose heads roll, what changes are sought.

geoffb said...

Want their demands? Okay.

But....."Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

As always the Secretary will disavow all knowledge of these demands if they are discovered by the public, Mr Phelps.

Lem said...

Lem nails it!

That deserves some Instapundit linkage!


Gee thank you guys.

(now I just have to write better or as good as Tropper to get fronted ;)

Cedarford said...

Lem said...
It a branch of the Pelosian Political hypothesis..

They have to protest first to know what you are protesting about.

=====================
Right now, it is at a level that young people and many others believe the future is screwed, the justice system and both Parties are bought off by the Elites. I consider the protests a positive thing.

The Egyptians 2 years ago that rioted over food prices nationwide..just knew that something was wrong, and Mubarak dictatorship was not helping them.

Same with the French peasants 200+ years before that.

The Russian Army at the end of WWI, starving and wearing tatters, had no plan other than to use their scarce bullets on their own officers and desert the battlefield to walk home. That caused the Czar to lose his legitimacy, long before the Jewish and Russian Bolsheviks took over.

The mass youth protests in Leipzig that was the impetus to tearing down the Wall, not Reagan? Their thinking was limited to thinking Communism was corrupt and rotting E Germany - and a belief that the Soviets had huge problems and would send the tanks in. Leipzig's protestors had no plan - other than to spread protests nationwide - the more people, the safer they were from Stasi reprisals.

gutless said...

"Kroll also lists 2 similarities. Both sets of protesters: 1. used social media, and 2. ate pizza."

Kroll left out the most important and shocking similarity i.e. they are all douche bags. How could he have missed it?

sorepaw said...
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ricpic said...

Occupy Wall Street protesters are rebelling? They're in search of a bigger tit.

BJM said...

What's Wall Street ever done for us?

_Jim said...

Just copied off the #occupywallstreet IRC chat:

[18:54] <OnionMan> we've already got Cops for Justice on our side in MKE, Sheriff Clark won't have the balls to come in swinging

- - - - - - -

You heard it first here!

MKE = Milwaukee

.

_Jim said...

Copied off #occupywallstreet IRC again:

[19:13] <OnionMan> hmmm, MTV is looking for an interview from someone younger than me, prettier than me, more employed than me, part of Occupy Milwaukee, and able to express how the Occupy movement applies to their life

- - - - - -

_Jim

jamboree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
_Jim said...

From the IRC I've been following:

[20:02] <OnionMan> for now, I live in the middle of a conservative wasteland in WI

wdnelson93 said...

Wisconsin - the home of politicians-for-life Russ Feingold and Dave Obey? A conservative wasteland? That Wisconsin? Yeesh.

_Jim said...

Please for give the long post, but, I just observed the 'genesis' of a 'working group' related, and working out plans for the 'occupy' movement regarding the use of IRC; this group just started and I thought might 'document' how these things start:

[21:02] <mungojelly> welcome faeya! welcome Aeon! can you feel the momentum in this movement? you can get things done here. lovely.

[21:02] <faeya> I can't go anywhere or do anything except online cuz of kids and only one car (bf takes it to work)

[21:02] *** mode/#owsircprocess [+ooo grevance faeya Aeon] by mungojelly

[21:02] <faeya> well, that and I put a big sign on our door ;)

[21:03] <Aeon> hi mungojelly :) thanks for the invite and the welcome :p

[21:03] <mungojelly> cool, well post a picture of your sign somewhere, i'd love to reblog that tumblr post :)

[21:03] <mungojelly> i'm mostly working online. i'm in vermont. there's some big rallies happening here, but just once a week.

[21:03] <Aeon> i bring 20 years irc experience to you, so if i have some idea i'll be sure to make a suggestion

[21:03] <DRJ> to the new ones: i had the idea to get a list of working groups once you join #occupywallstreet just like the differnet working groups in the square, what do you think about that, how could that be improved?

[21:04] <mungojelly> That's an awesome idea DRJ! Our friend DRJ is from Germany BTW, for the new folks. Yay global revolution. :)

[21:04] <mungojelly> Here's how I'd improve it: Ask new people joining the movement what working groups they'd like to be included in.

[21:04] <mungojelly> If the group exists, we connect them with it. But if it doesn't exist, that creates an opportunity for it to be seeded, instead of just expecting people to fall into what we've already made.

[21:05] <mungojelly> We should welcome every person who joins us, and make them feel powerful and respected, like they can accomplish something here.

[21:06] <Aeon> that sounds like a good way to give people some direction and easier to manage skill sets directly in the group they think they might fit. sounds efficient.


[21:08] <mungojelly> We should also be responsive to the needs of the occupations. They should feel like if they say "hey IRC, I need X Y and Z" then suddenly there's a group of people working on X, a group of people working on Y, a group of people working on Z, and a group of people working on compiling all the information and getting it back to them, and they'll be like "holy crap, IRC is actually helping

[21:08] <mungojelly> us". :D

[21:08] <faeya> it sounds like a good idea...I mean, I'm broke...we're riiiight at poverty line here, but it doesn't mean I can't repost stuff and/or write stuff...I think the best thing abotu this so far is that I'm not getting buried in 'PLEASE DONATE!!!" emails ;)

[21:10] <mungojelly> PLEASE DONATE!!!!! your time, effort, enthusiasm, and passion :D

[21:10] <faeya> yep :)

[21:10] <Aeon> i'm broke too but i can provide us with other tools that may be useful as well, i can code. so i can make such things like bots to help manage information with irc commands so you have quick reference to any link for example


- - - - -

_Jim

.

_Jim said...

My point for doing this?

These ppl organizing this are not bums, unknowing as to the ways of technology ... earlier I viewed _the_ Van Jones addressing the group in New York City via the Livestream/adbusters.com website.

The live NYC stream (when something is available):

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

And after that an individual who had organized some of the ruckus in Spain gave a short talk.

This does not look to have ended, it looks to be growing, and again it isn't just a group of bums getting together on a whim ...

_Jim

.

_Jim said...

Forgive another long post:

[21:17] <mungojelly> I like the idea of forming a welcoming committee.
[21:17] <faeya> definitely
[21:17] <DRJ> but you enlightened me earlier to the process, i guess that form of decision making will become viral and automatic after a while
[21:17] <DRJ> all over the world
[21:18] <faeya> I'm just amazed at how big this got
[21:18] <mungojelly> At any occupation if they're working effectively you're going to be greeted as you enter by some sort of welcome station where they're supposed to know how to connect you to what's going on!
[21:18] <souuell> thats why i like the idea of an automatic file when you come on expl aining things to you
[21:18] <souuell> a lot of channels have that
[21:18] <Aeon> a bit of background on myself tho for you guys.. I currently run a network of my own, i code in perl, python, C, C++, tcl, php/html/css/mysql, bash, curl, and xml, I use FreeBSD as my normal everyday pc and i do not support windows.
[21:18] <souuell> freebsd > *
[21:18] <souuell> i commend you sir
[21:19] <mungojelly> I love how the declarations from the Occupations are all things you could have seen in the 60s, except then there's also something about Open Source.
[21:19] <faeya> *bows to your superiority* I use ubuntu for my primary pc
[21:19] <faeya> but I'm stuck on the xp laptop atm cuz my ubuntu box won't turn on :(
[21:19] <grevance> getting started with Ubunto here 2.
[21:19] <Aeon> nothing wrong with that faeya :p i believe everyone should use what they are most comfortable with
[21:20] <Wolfen69> lol... Aeon grats... I am a network admin for a company that does the websites, email and booking eng for over 300 of the top hotels world wide... I here ya... :D
[21:20] <Aeon> mic check!
[21:20] <DRJ> guys, I liked to help further but its 4:20 am here if you know what i mean, so goodnight and I'll be back^^ oh wait thats an austrian not a german, i mean hes american now, right?
[21:20] <faeya> Stop playing music at 10 o'clock!
[21:21] <faeya> good night :)
[21:21] <Aeon> ok DRJ sleep well
[21:21] <mungojelly> thanks DRJ, we'll appreciate your help any time you want to come back :)
[21:21] <Wolfen69> Aeon my house... http://foribite.com/server.jpg :)

Neo said...

This entire “Occupy[fill in the blank]” movement is solidly based on denial. It’s denial that “debt” is a problem for the country.

The premier model for this denial is our POTUS. After weeks of political wrangling over “a down payment of the debt,” he comes back with a new program of spending with a price tag over a year or two roughly half the size of the ten year savings. No matter whether there are new taxes or not, this just isn’t serious. He just wants to “ignore away” the debt.

Meanwhile, these demonstrations seem to be based mostly on students with a debt burden who want to ignore what they had signed up for. Why should they take responsibility when the POTUS doesn’t take responsibility for his spending.

The elephant in the room is that the target of the demonstrations, the banks, while getting capitalization through “bridge loans” from the government, had to pay back the money they got from the government, while many of the recipients of the largesse of TARP and the “stimulus” (i.e the unions) are rushing to join the demonstrators.

They seem to believe that they can “let the good times roll” again if they can just make somebody else ("the rich") pay for their last binge.

This entire exercise shows that there are few, if any, grown-ups in the room of our “Occupy”-ers, and the POTUS isn’t one of them.

sorepaw said...
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