August 25, 2011

Matt Yglesias is pointlessly pigheaded about his misstatement of what Ron Paul has proposed to do about abortion.

Yglesias responds to a post of mine:
Ann Althouse chooses for some reason to dispute that Ron “respecting the God-given right to life—for those born and unborn” Paul wants to ban abortion. 
No. I dispute that he has "loudly trumpet[ed a] plan to impose criminal penalties" on women who have abortions. Those are your words, Matt, and it is quite dishonest to change the language as you embark on your attempt to discredit me.
Since she’s apparently incapable of reading between the lines of such proposals as “Defining life as beginning at conception by passing a Sanctity of Life Act’” she might be interesting [sic] in some other quotations from Congressman Paul such as....
Well, the fact is, Matt, I really am interesting. I'm so interesting that you ought to pay attention to the precise words that I use in disputing you. Pay attention to the text before you embark on your flights of interpretation that you gratuitously insult me for supposedly lacking the capacity to perform. Pay attention to my text and to your own text (which needs editing). You ought to learn to read and be honest about what you have read.

Yglesias goes on to quote something Ron Paul said about the fetus being a person. I'm well aware, as my post clearly shows, that Paul believes the fetus is a person who deserves rights. The issue, however is whether he has "loudly trumpet[ed a] plan to impose criminal penalties" on women who have abortions. He has not done that.

Ron Paul's proposals are about diverting the matter to the state courts, as I clearly describe in my post. Now, if you want to say that voters who care about preserving abortion rights should not trust Ron Paul, then I agree with you. But you should agree with me that he most certainly did not "loudly trumpet[ a] plan to impose criminal penalties." Why can't you just fix your misstatement? Why this pointless pigheadedness? You're doing yourself no favors, Matt, and insulting my intelligence — "she’s apparently incapable of reading between the lines" — is — as they say — incivil.

69 comments:

traditionalguy said...

Matt has no time for hysterical women. He is a sexist pig.

Henry said...

Yglesias' next defense will be to complain that Althouse is obsessing about a minor semantical point. You heard it hear first.

Carol_Herman said...

About as phony an issue as Dubya's "Leave No Child's Behind."

Lots of Americans prefer MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

Let alone how H.L. Mencken said it about blue noses. They'll make sure there won't be anyone out there having a good time.

While our society has been stolen by elites ... who throw bones at the public. While they keep all the power to themselves and their families.

Oh, yeah. And, the semen-soaked room at the Sofitel. At $5,000 a night! Guys line up and shoot their ejaculate at the wallpaper?

Ron Paul is so "fringe," anyway. The only way he goes up in the polls is when pollsters ask people who say they don't vote ... whom they might choose.

On par with "choosing" Shirley Ambrahamson to be your bride.

murgatroyd666 said...

Why this pointless pigheadedness?

He is who he is.

rcocean said...

Well, if hadn't lied about your post he couldn't have attacked you on this issue.

So cut him some slack - he really isn't that smart.

Just don't call him "whitebread".

AJ Lynch said...

Moving the goalposts. It's what libruls do best.

Bender said...

OF COURSE HE IS DISHONEST.

To the pro-abortionist, truth is maleable.

Or, if you prefer, to the "pro-choicer," one thinks that he can choose his own truth.

MarkG said...

You're supposed to know what he meant to say (which can change, depending on feedback). Silly goose.

Random Arrow said...

Well, this is weird. I thought I saved a “pdf” copy of Althouse on how to read. A classic.

I pulled it up only to find, "The Brotherhood is tyrannical in its opinions and views..." Proof that God exists in this particular accident! Send that one to Matt!

Now to find Althouse on how to read?

edutcher said...

Paul sees this as a 9th and 10th Amendment issue - good for him.

As for tangling with the Divine Althouse, Yglesias might as well pick which tail feathers he wants to part with now.

Jon said...

Typo alert, Althouse. You said: "Well, the fact is, Matt, a really am interesting."

Jon said...

Typo alert Althouse. You said: "Well, the fact is, Matt, a really am interesting."

YoungHegelian said...

I own an IT services firm in the DC area.

My services have gotten me into to all sorts of places full of analysts, pundits, journalists, activists, and politicians.

You would be amazed at how dull most of these people are. Interested in their own bailiwick, yes. Ready to sacrifice their time and effort for the cause, yes. But the rest of larger reality can just go hang for all they care.

It seems Yglesias fits the bill.

Oligonicella said...

This is certainly a pot of the black calling the case kettle.

Ann Althouse said...

@Jon Thanks. Worst place for it... right when I was tweaking him over a typo!

Sixty Grit said...

"Well, the fact is, Matt, a really am interesting."

One good typo deserves another, eh?

hawkeyedjb said...

Why is it even an issue if some candidate, representative, senator, or even president 'wants to ban abortion?' Can you imagine all the legislative, judicial and executive forces that would have to align for that to happen? I can't. How's this for a proposition: it doesn't matter one hoot in hell what anyone's position is on abortion. It won't be banned because it can't be.

chickenlittle said...

Yglesias is one of those names which must chafe some eponymous atheists. It's kinda like the name Christopher.

Mogget said...

Dennis the Peasant used to beat up on "Little Matty" all the time for exactly the same inability to read and think critically.

Michael K said...

I am only startled that you expected more from him.

At least Contessa Brewer is gone. I can't comment on the comparison with Ed Schultz never having seen her tits. If we had seen more of them, she might still have a job.

rcocean said...

Abortion was illegal in this country, pretty much everywhere till 1960. Did we ever put women in jail for it?

I doubt it. You don't need to put women in jail, you only need to put the Doctors - aka Abortionists - in jail.

Matt, like many pro-choicers, is playing on the historical ignorance of most people.

Roger J. said...

Ahhh--bloggers wars--who gives a shit except bloggers--this contretemps most certainly will not make nightly news or even Jon Stewart--but do thrash on--entertaining to the loyalists, if no one else

PETER V. BELLA said...

Only functional illiterates read between the lines.

FedkaTheConvict said...

Obviously the thrill is gone: Hey, I got an "Yglesias Award" nomination...
... from Andrew Sullivan.

ALH said...

When Yglesias someday writes a blog post that thoughtfully takes someone to task for being innacurate, maybe Andrew Sullivan will nominate him for an "Althouse Award".

Maguro said...

Matty Yglesias is dishonest partisan hack? Who would have guessed!

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Titus said...

I needed quite a bit of dental work while in Madison.

The place was great but went totally overboard.

They had chocolate chip cookies...in a dentist office?

Baked Warm Bread so the entire place smelled of bread.

Had Ipads everywhere.

A disgusting photo book of the dentist and his perfect family in the lobby.

Music, videos, blankys, eye masks, etc.

You name it, it was there.

I went because they had sedation dentistry and knocked me out because I fucking hate anyone digging in my mouth and the sounds make me puke.

But all the other crap was not necessary.

And of course the building is green and the faucets were fab but only dripped out a little water in order to save the environment.

I would of done the dentist though.

It was called No Fear Dentistry. The name won me over.

$20,000 and perfect white teeth that have been bleached big time and I am ready to take on the world. Every one of my teeth are exactly the same color. I am in there before and after catalog.

How are you?

tits and clouds.

Quaestor said...

Carol Herman wrote:
About as phony an issue as Dubya's "Leave No Child's Behind."

Holy shit, CH, your efforts at thread hijacking have become frantic. What next? Will you pull a gun and demand in a sibliant Spanish accent "Take this blog to Habana"?

Chip S. said...

Matthew Yglesias has failed to grasp a perfectly clear point?

Inconceivable!

rcocean said...

"Matty Yglesias is dishonest partisan hack? Who would have guessed!"

But he's a thoughtful ' dishonest partisan hack' - lets give him credit.

He may cut your throat, but he'll have 50 reasons why he did it.

Titus said...

their

Chip S. said...

Damn. Posted before reading all the way to the bottom of the thread. Sorry, Maguro.

geokstr said...

Reinterpreting, revising and restating what an opponent says is what the left does best. And if that doesn't work, then they just make up stuff.

You're a law professor, Ann. You should know they invented Critical Legal Studies to get around having to abide by what the words of the Constitution and the law, like, you know, say.

No matter the words, or the context, and the clear intent of the authors, that's irrelevant. All that counts is social justice and income equality and righting ancient wrongs against approved victim groups.

How would you like to be in Limbaugh's position and just have them make up "quotes" from whole cloth that "prove" how racist he is? That happens pretty much every day to him.

When proof shows up that they are liars, they just shrug and say, "Well, we know that's how he feels anyway."

chuck said...

*shrug*. It's Yglesias, I stopped paying attention to the man years ago.

Quaestor said...

"Reading between the lines" is a kind of Rorschach test, isn't it? Maybe it's Yglesias who really wants criminal sanctions against women who have abortions.

This situation remands me of some brouhaha in Idaho regarding a man who has been arraigned and is about to be brought to trial over the killing of a female Grizzly bear. It seems that on 8 May 2011 an Idaho man shot and killed a mother Grizzly that led her two cubs onto the man's farm where they attack his swine. Fearing for his children's safety he shot the adult. Now he faces a big fine and likely jail time for acting in what he, and most people who know bears, deemed to be the only responsible manner.

Now consider what would happen if a certain wife hired a physician to kill her husband's unborn son. Nothing, right? Bears get protection and humans don't, at least the humans who haven't made it down the magic tunnel into the daylight. But while they're still up there they're vermin -- totally killable at the whim of the owner of that miraculous viaduct.

Now let's assume the woman in hypothetical has delivered her son. The midwife places the neonate into its mother's arms for the first time and, instead of nursing him she kills him, Lady MacBeth style. The woman is now a murderer in the eyes of the law, and will get a long Thorazine vacation for her actions at the very least. Somehow, by some kind of very non-rational fiat of law the baby acquires the protection of society, just by descending that tunnel, while a few minutes before he was at the mercy of his mother's mood.

I'm not saying an abortion is murder or even criminal, as its clearly not in the eyes of current high court opinion. What I'm saying is the opinion that under-girds the law is very, very suspect in the light of reason.

Carol_Herman said...

Armand Hammer's dad was jailed for doing an abortion.

And, women DIED! They became STERILE! Back alleys left kids at home without their moms! Dads remarried.

And, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

But the religious zealots never stop! They haven't won ONE time! And, they've raised millions and millions of dollars "trying."

What's sad is that the GOP got hijacked!

And, the left? They don't exist!

The left died when JFK got shot ... and the media took over keeping it a secret that Oswald worked with Naval Intelligence!

Bob Woodward was also a Navy guy.

And, Mark Felt made sure the dirt on Nixon went public. So he'd have to resign.

Keep having a good time, folks.

You've never touched the levers of power!

All that you see are stupid bones thrown to the hounds.

Quaestor said...

Carol_Herman wrote:
And, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

"Shut up!", she explained.

lewsar said...

to yglesias and his ilk, life is something they read about in a book.

mickey kaus calls them juiceboxers, which i think is both accurate and completely brilliant.

Tim said...

42 million abortions a year is the end in need of protecting; intentionally misstating Paul's position to scare women (...as if he really stood a chance at winning...) is the justifiable means of achieving it.

And this is news, let alone worthy of commenting on? In the performance art of politics, hasn't the role this character plays become a complete cliche say, 30 or more years ago?

Levi Starks said...

"incapable of reading between the lines"
"refuses to see things my way"

Coketown said...

Yglesias is at his best when he's just regurgitating some new study or think tank publication. When it's time for original analysis he's all thumbs. And that voice. Ugh. Screech Powers speaks with more finesse.

lewsar said...

42 million abortions a year where, exactly? not the USA, clearly. world wide perhaps?

got a cite for that statistic/

Kirk Parker said...

You sort of lost me at "Matt Yglesias"...

Yes, yes, he's badly misrepresenting you, and double-yes that's annoying, but... ... ... I seem to have missed the chapter that covers why it matters in the least what he thinks or says.

Freder Frederson said...

You still haven't explained how, with a Federal law defining life as beginning at conception, states would be able to allow abortions (or even some kinds of birth control) to be legal--the 10th and 11th amendment notwithstanding.

Freder Frederson said...

Yglesias goes on to quote something Ron Paul said about the fetus being a person.

Did you really think that no one would bother to follow the link?

Your statement, at best, deliberately mischaracterizes (unless, of course you are illeterate) the quote from Paul. I will reproduce it here in its entirety, since I know your fans believe everything you say and don't bother to follow your links.

"Abortion on demand is the ultimate State tyranny; the State simply declares that certain classes of human beings are not persons, and therefore not entitled to the protection of the law. The State protects the “right” of some people to kill others, just as the courts protected the “property rights” of slave masters in their slaves. Moreover, by this method the State achieves a goal common to all totalitarian regimes: it sets us against each other, so that our energies are spent in the struggle between State-created classes, rather than in freeing all individuals from the State. Unlike Nazi Germany, which forcibly sent millions to the gas chambers (as well as forcing abortion and sterilization upon many more), the new regime has enlisted the assistance of millions of people to act as its agents in carrying out a program of mass murder."

Paul equates abortion with one of the greatest crimes of humanity ever carried out and lays the blame on "millions of people" as its agents.

I don't know how you can read that quote and not believe that Paul thinks criminal penalties for all those who participate in the process deserve to criminally prosecuted for their participation. Or do you really think Paul believes we shouldn't have prosecuted those who were participants in Nazi crimes against humanity?

Freder Frederson said...

I don't know how you can read that quote and not believe that Paul thinks criminal penalties for all those who participate in the process deserve to criminally prosecuted for their participation.

Before Ann dings me for bad editing, this of course should read:

I don't know how you can read that quote and not believe that Paul thinks those who participate in the process deserve to criminally prosecuted for their participation.

AllenS said...

Freder, read between the lines.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Matt went to Harvard. You're in the Midwest. How could you be right and he wrong?

CEO-MMP said...

Carol Herman, posting about cum covered wallpaper. Titus makes reservations.

Jesus wept and a kitten died.

Toby said...

"Read between the lines" and "loudly trumpet" are just not compatible. I imagine Matt will say this is a semantic point, but when you're attributing a controversial policy position to a politician it's not about semantics. It's about being honest.

Marek said...

If something requires one to read between the lines; isn't that the opposite of trumpeting? One usually has to read between lines to find hidden intent or meaning. The retort defeated the argument.

Marshal said...

"You sort of lost me at "Matt Yglesias"..."

Second, or twenty. The only thing Yglesias is good for is figuring out how leftists rationalize the complete failure of their policy preferences to have the predicted effect. We don't have to see the full Journolist archives. If you want to know what theconsensus concluded was the best tactic to protest leftist interests read Ygelsias.

Rick67 said...

Matt! I'm laughing at the superior intellect.

Writ Small said...

Reading through Matt's commenters was frustrating, since it did not appear many of the commenters clicked through the link Matt provided.

Edward Marshall, a "top commenter" said. . .

Ann Althouse somehow thinks that states can sanction the murder of a certain class of people? Am I reading her right?

Huh? I think Matt knows he can get away with distorting Ann's statement because few of his readers will follow the link, and those that do will stick to their talking points rather than engage the opposing ideas.

Pogo said...

Whenever the left aborts the economy and the state's feral children run wild and its million promises for an easy life are doomed because it overspent other people's money, they reach for Excalibur: Abortion.

That vorpal blade, they trust, will go snicker-snack, cutting through and through their manxome foe, like so many clusters of cells.

The uffish right will be left for dead, once and for all.

Beware the Jabberwock, Matt Yglesias, and the frumious Althouse!!

Tim said...

"42 million abortions a year where, exactly? not the USA, clearly. world wide perhaps?"

Correct. Globally. The moral distinction, of course, is nil.

http://www.sogc.org/jogc/abstracts/full/200912_WomensHealth_1.pdf

TMink said...

So, another example of lefty faux outrage about something that was never said. What, that is about the 50th so far this morning? Sometimes they are a one trick pony. I am beginning to think that it is not an act and they are really that hysterical. I mean it makes some sense. Hysterical people are not productive, they have trouble keeping a job, you can never do enough to keep them happy, and they are notoriously over-dependent on other people to provide for them and clean up their mess.

Yep, I think they are indeed that hysterical.

Trey

Oligonicella said...

chickenlittle --

"Yglesias is one of those names which must chafe some eponymous atheists. It's kinda like the name Christopher."

Why?

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Olig: Because "Yglesias" means "lives near the church".

I can't speak for other atheists, but I like being named for an angel even though I have no reason to think they exist. The historical and cultural associations of the name are pleasing to me. Rather than name our kids Misty, River, or Jayden I think we will go with Bible names, as my ancestors before me did.

Gabriel Hanna said...

I'd feel the same way if I were named "Jason" or "Hector". These names are also from a religion I don't belong to.

America's Politico said...

Professor:

Matt Y (like Esra K., Andy Sully, Josh Talking Points Trash etc.) are members of Journ"O"List. Remember that?

These bozos are insult to Obama voters like me. Pure and simple. They are pseudo-intellectuals. I cannot even believe that as an immigrant, I have to put up with these bozos taking over the progressive wing of democratic party. I think these people are not only less educated than me but even less accomplished. But, they have a paid-blog and a paid-magazine.

Ignore these bozos.

PS: This does not change the fact that Obama will win everywhere due to GOP lack of vision, diversity, deliverables, etc.

AllenS said...

deliverables = pizzas delivered to you. Right at your home.

Kirk Parker said...

Gabriel,

I dunno, it seems to me that "Misty-River Jayden Hanna" would be a pretty cool name.

AF said...

Sorry, Ann, you're just wrong. The Sanctity of Life Act would define fetuses as legal persons. This would automatically turn abortion into murder and women who have abortions into murderers.

Furthermore, on the Internet and in life (except perhaps if you're defending yourself against perjury charges under a reasonable doubt standard) you don't get to parse words and say you didn't really dispute what someone said when you disputed something else that they said at the time that made the same point.

DaveW said...

Oh bah.

You're punching down professor.

Holmes said...

That's never been the goal of the left when it comes to abortion- to be honest about the debate. The important thing is the outcome and the narrative. "Anti-abortion=anti-women."

It's why conservative women are simply repulsive to them. It is their most sacred of tenets.

Phil 3:14 said...

Sorry, Ann, you're just wrong. The Sanctity of Life Act would define fetuses as legal persons. This would automatically turn abortion into murder and women who have abortions into murderers.

Furthermore, on the Internet and in life (except perhaps if you're defending yourself against perjury charges under a reasonable doubt standard) you don't get to parse words and say you didn't really dispute what someone said when you disputed something else that they said at the time that made the same point.


Shorter:

in spite of what you say, I know what you mean.

Oligonicella said...

Gabriel Hanna --

@Olig: Because "Yglesias" means "lives near the church".

Not the why I was asking, I already knew that answer. Why does chickenlittle think that having such a name would chafe anyone?

I'm curious if it was simply a shallow snark or if he/she actually has that cartoonishly simple a view of other people.