June 9, 2011

Why are the protesters taking over Apple Stores?

Protesters take over the Apple Store in Madison, Wisconsin:



This happened last Saturday. One of the groups involved was US Uncut. I had never heard that name before, and I found it puzzling, because what sprang to my mind was the "intactivists" — the anti-circumcision folks who've made some headway recently in San Francisco. But it turns out US Uncut has nothing to do with wieners. Nothing to do with wieners!
US Uncut is a grassroots movement taking direct action against corporate tax cheats and unnecessary and unfair public service cuts across the U.S..
The group is targeting Apple:
“Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the world and now they're lobbying for extra tax loopholes,” said US Uncut San Francisco organizer Leslie Dreyer, “During a time of devestating budget cuts, we cannot afford for companies like Apple to try to finagle special treatment. I can sync my iPhone to my MacBook, why can’t I sync it to my values?”
That's what you get for being a conspicuously liberal corporation. The ultra-lefties target you... presumably, because they think you'll cave or support them in some way. You don't want look like an actual for-profit, capitalistic corporation, do you, Apple? That's what you get for cultivating the image of benevolence!

161 comments:

Mark O said...

Jim laughs at everything you say. Is that a good thing? Does he have a crush?

Shouting Thomas said...

Why are you telling us about anything besides Weiners?

As to the demonstrators, we sure have a lot of people with time on their hands and nothing to do.

MadisonMan said...

Those intactivists are very bizarre. Raise your own damn kids and leave mine alone, why don't you?

US Uncut is a very bad name for the group for all the reasons you state. It's unfortunate that they don't spell-check, as well.

SteveR said...

"Uncut" has a well established meaning, seems these folks could have picked a better name.

Raising tax revenue without spending cuts will not solve the problem.

Dead Julius said...

Apple is a "conspicuously liberal corporation"???

Oh, come on...

There are plenty of liberals who like Mac products. There are also plenty of conservatives and libertarians.

The only thing I can think of that Apple touts in a liberal way is its recycling efforts. And it was pretty late putting those in place compared to some other companies.

Apple is concentrated on making great products and, most of all, making $$$ from great products, not on any silly political orientation. Anything that you might consider an aspect of a "conspicuously liberal corporation" has a profit motive behind it.

Steve Jobs is a Randian, even if he doesn't self-identify as such. Can't you see that after all these years? His company will gladly sell to liberals, and pitch to liberals, but it ain't no liberal company.

Shouting Thomas said...

Nuke San Francisco and Madison!

Better yet, try out those neutron bombs on them.

Aren't those the bombs that kill the people but leave the real estate standing?

Just think how great San Fran and Madison could be if we could empty them out and repopulate them with sane people.

Henry said...

Send these guys to Iowa cornfields, please.

I have some sympathy for their goal of eliminating tax loopholes and corporate welfare but like many activists with admirable theories they have tunnel vision. Rather than focus on the broad-based idiocies of the tax system they focus on some populist cause that makes them feel noble -- in this case taxes on foreign earnings.

And thus they become entirely unsympathetic. Small minded people are like that.

Phil 3:14 said...

What next? Protests at Ben and Jerry's

Palladian said...

Funny, when I see stupid protestors milling around an Apple store, my mind doesn't immediately jump to mass-murder with atomic weapons. Funny, that...

Curious George said...

Telling that they think that we are times of devastating "Budget cuts" and not "debt". Ironic that these are the folks that are gonna have to pay it off. Life is going to take a cruel bite out of their kollective asses. Something tells me that they won't be ready for it.

Milwaukee said...

There is a reason many will argue against simplifying the tax code: they will lose benefits.

Look at how the Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-Transgendered crowd has dealt with Target. Normally, Target is supportive of their activities. Target steps out of line with one donation to an opponent of same-sex marriage, and they get nailed. The Left Does Not Tolerate Dissent. Unless they are dissenting.

Protesting Bush's wars was patriotic and American and Right and Just. Protesting Obama's wars is just Racist.

Has anybody anywhere protested the police action in Libya?

Phil 3:14 said...

Here's more evidence of the end of the world as we know it

Left leaning network reports on workers of socialist country being screwed by the communists.

Lincolntf said...

Wisconsin blithely allows the Union thugs and other malcontents to destroy and occupy public property, and people wonder why they feel they can do the same to private property? Nothing you own is yours if the Unions want it. You chose this, Wisconsin, fix it or live with it.

Maguro said...

One of the funny things is that you can click through the US Uncut website to make a donation at their parent organization, which is called "The Other 98%".

The donation form says:

Your tax-deductible donation will help us raise awareness, mobilize members and get Washington working for the rest of us.

Tax deductible? Isn't that finagling special treatment? Outrageous!

ET1492 said...

If all the liberals who own Apple products would settle for less expensive Windows-based hardware; sell their iPhones and cancel their data plans; and donate the savings to charity, they could really make a difference...

Who really loves their neighbors?

traditionalguy said...

We should nationalize Apple so we can take that wealth. It worked in Venezuela and Cuba. I can't wait to get a new Yugo like Apple computer that Apple will begin shipping after these protesters get the justice they are demanding. The wait maybe several years since National Apple will have to get Obama Permits after an exhaustive 3 year environmental study done to save the children. In the meantime we can use George Soros owned Brazilian made computers

pbAndj said...

Did folks see pictures of the new Apple headquarters?

It's a big donut that holds 12,000 people!

garage mahal said...

Uncut has some pretty snazzy and decently choreographed flash mobs

Brennan said...

These guys look like Weezer without any instruments. Such a pity.

Patrick said...

At the risk of hijacking a thread, it appears that fellow (Christopher Branski) who was hurling all of those profanities at 14 year old Tricia Willoughby is at it again, although with adults this time:
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2011/06/christopher-branski.html

What a fine representative of the Unions, Mr. Branksi.

roesch-voltaire said...

Oh my protestors in Apple stores calls for the most extreme measure of the New Order Police State, which has been quietly growing: Nuke them all! Fantasies of the right wing made visible--- giving warning to any citizen who would question off-shore profits of multi-nationals. And this is considered sane?

Pastafarian said...

I thought of the anti-circumcision movement too.

I blame Titus.

Pastafarian said...

roesch, I don't think that anyone here is seriously suggesting nuking Madison.

The fallout would drift over the UP of Michigan, and it's only a couple of weeks into pike season.

SPImmortal said...

"Oh my protestors in Apple stores calls for the most extreme measure of the New Order Police State, which has been quietly growing: Nuke them all! Fantasies of the right wing made visible--- giving warning to any citizen who would question off-shore profits of multi-nationals. And this is considered sane?"

Does everything have to be some lame bit of theatre where liberals get to act indignant for the millionth time?

Marshal said...

"That's what you get for being a conspicuously liberal corporation."

I think you give them too much credit. Their thinking doesn't go beyond "they make money and we want it".

TosaGuy said...

Yet these clowns keep buying Apple stuff.

I do have a significant problem with Apple's business model, however. They make loads of money and don't pay a penny of it to the shareholders.

garage mahal said...

By the way, the MacIver Institute that Althouse likes to link to is not a news organization by any sense of the word, but a propaganda arm of the WI GOP.

roesch-voltaire said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marshal said...

Apparently Garage thinks if the wrong person videotapes something it didn't happen.

Is this the NBA? If the ref didn't see it - it didn't happen?

gerry said...

Tax "loopholes" are often standard accounting practices that permit businesses to deduct costs from gross income before paying taxes on the gross income.

Sure, there are other credits and deductions, but most of these kids live in wood-paneled basements and do not have to worry about making a buck, most likely (daddy or mommy take care of deducting mortgage interest from their gross income, or work for corporations that deduct costs from gross income, before paying taxes).

What is with these people anyway, wanting to give a government that spends money foolishly and is manned by wiener-waving perverts?

I can sync my iPhone to my MacBook, why can’t I sync it to my values?”

This is fascist!

vnjagvet said...

I guess Garage is suggesting the "protest" didn't happen. It wasn't covered by an "unbiased" press corps -- or one officially sanctioned by a Garage approved organization.

David said...

Why?

Because actually doing something useful to help the world takes more work than they are willing to do?

vnjagvet said...

Marshall beat me to it. I should have refreshed before commenting.

Patrick said...

There goes Garage, blaming the messenger. Dan Rather could have reported this, and it would still be true.

AllenS said...

Off topic --

I received this from PayPal. Is this on the up and up?

Hello Allen ******,

It looks like you may be using an outdated browser with known security issues.

Help keep your computer and your PayPal account protected by updating your browser today.


Should I do it? How can I tell if it really is PayPal?

gerry said...

Does everything have to be some lame bit of theatre where liberals get to act indignant for the millionth time?

...while others do the heavy lifting that allows these whiners to be all whiny and self-righteous?

KenK said...

Hoist on their own petard. I'm writing this on a MacBook too. How's that for irony?

gerry said...

AllenS: which browser?

Contact Paypal and see if they ever advise clients of their browser versions problems.

Roger J. said...

you folks in wisconsin are about the dumbest idiots on the planet--eat road kills, whine about every thing--sorry pieces of shit (except for allen S--why dont you sorry bastards just shoot yourslves and go away--what fucking trash you are

TosaGuy said...

R-V. Good stock picking on your part. You caught Apple during its speculative phase and were rewarded handsomely for your risk. The company is now fully established, dominates several markets and earns $20 a share. It is now a $300 stock. I am not going to buy stock at that price if the company isn't going to pay me to own it. People would also pay taxes on that dividend too.

themightypuck said...

I don't think any real lefty thinks of Apple as somehow left. Apple is as left as it needs to be to be able to attract and retain talent and to appease it's customer base. And by left I mean green because for some reason those two things correlate high.

edutcher said...

In order to save Barry Obama's Socialist Workers' Utopia, the Lefties will turn on all those wealthy Left-wing dishrags who funded his campaigns over the years and devour their own.

Mark O said...

Jim laughs at everything you say. Is that a good thing? Does he have a crush?

All she needs is a little fan so she can just flutter her eyes at him as she feeds him bon mots and he'll be putty in her hands.

Shouting Thomas said...

Why are you telling us about anything besides Weiners?

As to the demonstrators, we sure have a lot of people with time on their hands and nothing to do.


That's what Lefties do. You don't think all those people who show up at a moment's notice for ANSWER or SEIU actually have jobs, do you?

AllenS said...

I have Internet Explorer. Is that a browser?

WV: hophook

That's a bad sign.

Patrick said...

Allen,

I've seen this sort of thing numerous times. Almost certainly a phishing scheme. If you want to be certain, contact Paypal independently to see if they have sent this out. I'd call rather than clikc on onything in the suspect email.

pst314 said...

"I can sync my iPhone to my MacBook, why can’t I sync it to my values?"

A quintessentially fascist sentiment.

AllenS said...

The bottom of the email looks like this:

© 2011 PayPal Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.

Does that look legit?

PatCA said...

Starbucks tries to be hip and left too, but it doesn't work. Real lefties refuse to go there because it's "global" or something. Does Howard Schultz realize this?

So their fair trade coffee, their fat free and sugar free (and taste free)donuts fail. Regular people don't buy the food, no matter how they redirect us past the display case, and lefties still don't buy coffee there.

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
By the way, the MacIver Institute that Althouse likes to link to is not a news organization by any sense of the word, but a propaganda arm of the WI GOP.

Whatever. That reminds me of that polling outfit I picked up on via you: ppppolls. The guy seems like a one man pollster for the Democratic Party.

Yeah, don't think people don't notice that whenever you link to his unbiased "polls."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Jeez. Does everything the libtards do have to be high drama.

It is like dealing with your hormonal adolescent daughter or son. Things are so dramatic and emotional. Stomping around and going off the handle when they don't get their everything 'their' way.

As parents you just roll your eyes and realize at some point they are going to grow up, leave the house and have to deal with reality on their very own. Then we can finally have some peace.

Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck with these political adolescents and their never ending temper tantrums. Is there no way we can kick them out of the house and get some peace?

roesch-voltaire said...

Tosa guy I must admit I am conflicted about Apples as we have at least six of their products, and I bought the stock at $35 and sold it off over time, but still have %50 of the original amount so I am happy with how they have treated this shareholder, but i have also complained to them about the working conditions in their China manufacturing plant. Pastafarian I understand that Shouting usually makes threats against someone or group, so it is a challenge to figure out when to take him seriously. I will never forget my white water experience on the Ontonagon River and would not want to see that river or pike season spoiled.

cubanbob said...

If the Apple Corporation had a sense of humor, they would hang a photo of Rush Limbaugh behind the Golden EIB microphone with his IPad and IMac desktop in the background in the afflicted stores.

Titus said...

OK, I am over the weiner thing now.

It was fun and everything but I am bored.

Now what?

I am going to Amish Country today.

Ciao,

Pogo said...

The religion of leftism is dominated by its Puritans, pictured here claiming Apple is in League with the Devil, Ayn Rand, and indeed they must be Witches who do not Serve Our God, the State.

MadisonMan said...

The fallout would drift over the UP of Michigan, and it's only a couple of weeks into pike season.

Eh. Do it during northwest flow aloft so it drifts over Chicago.

PatCA said...

They say we live in a "time of devastating budget cuts"!

I thought the problem was the opposite: devastating budget increases throwing us into devastating debt.

Kids!

chickenlittle said...

Titus said...
I am going to Amish Country today.

Have great time and don't forget to brake for buggies!

Titus said...

When I was younger and there was such a thing as "porn magazines" I subscribed to "Uncut".

One day I got rid of all my porn magazines because I was mortified thinking, if I died, my mother would have to clean out the huge stash of porn in my closet. I wanted to save her the embarrassment.

AJ Lynch said...

Let's give these libruls some credit for finally being consistent. Until now, they decried oil company profits while ignoring the billions made by Apple and Microsoft.

garage mahal said...

why dont you sorry bastards just shoot yourslves and go away--what fucking trash you are

Um, why you don't go away, hayseed? Nobody is asking you to constantly offer up your verbal diahrrea on the Wisconsin threads. We'll stay from Petticoat Junction, and you can stay away from Wisconsin.

Trooper York said...

Shouting Thomas.....
As to the demonstrators, we sure have a lot of people with time on their hands and nothing to do.

Dude you just gave the membership requirements for the Althouse Blogging community. Good job.

Michael Haz said...

"I have Internet Explorer. Is that a browser?"


Allen, what you should do is upgrade to Ford Explorer; the new model with the four-cylinder turbocharged Eco engine, then browse around the hills and valleys a few hours each morning.

jamboree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paddy O said...

Cultivate the affections of the hipsters, become a victim of their whims and fancies.

jamboree said...

Who cares? Check out Apple's new proposed campus which will keep thousands of jobs in CA while Northrop and other defense contractors are busy moving closer to the money spigot that is Washington DC:

http://tinyurl.com/3mm5nh2

or

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2011/jun/09/apple-cupertino-hq

(if you're anti tinyurl...)

I'd far rather they have some kind of rider that forces corporations like Apple to keep a certain percentage of decent jobs in the US rather than tweak the tax situation. If all the money has to go through the government mill to get something "equitable", then you've got bigger systemic problems than taxes. It should be fixed a level or two before that.

rsb said...

@Shouting Thomas
...Just think how great San Fran and Madison could be if we could empty them out and repopulate them with sane people.

Tommy's the kind of guy that drinks his own urine.

Titus said...

I have been watching The Sissy Boy Experiment on Anderson Cooper the past three days.

And all I can say is I am grateful my parents didn't try to change me when I was young. I was identical to that kid/man.

Titus said...

That George Rekers dude is a real piece of shit.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Titus said...

One day I got rid of all my porn magazines because I was mortified thinking, if I died, my mother would have to clean out the huge stash of porn in my closet. I wanted to save her the embarrassment.

There was a comic series once where Green Arrow went around the world gathering up all of Green Lantern's leftover rings (Green Lantern being temporarily dead at the time -- this is a comic book, these things happen). The author of the comic book explained that he got the idea from porn buddies, which was a term I'd never heard before. Your porn buddy is that really trustworthy friend whom you tell where all your porn is stashed. He has a simple mission: if he ever hears of your death, he is to immediately head to your porn stash and remove or destroy it so your family doesn't find it in their hour of grief.

Titus, sounds like you needed a porn buddy.

Of course, these days internet porn may eliminate that problem.

Drew said...

Jeez. Does everything the libtards do have to be high drama.

Yes. It's part of the set-up. Cue-Ball Carville says that we're going to have riots because of this economy, and I thought no, he's wrong, because the people hardest hit -- the middle class -- doesn't riot. But now I'm beginning to wonder if he doesn't mean that well-compensated public union employees will riot unless the taxpayers cough up more money . . .

chickenlittle said...

jamboree wrote: Check out Apple's new proposed campus which will keep thousands of jobs in CA while Northrop and other defense contractors are busy moving closer to the money spigot that is Washington DC

Boneheads like garage and the protestors want to the collect the fruits of Apple and distribute them to according to their whims.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I am going to Amish Country today.

To look for a wild rumspringa party?

deborah said...

Here's a short Uncut vid about interrupting a BoA conference. If true, is there a rationale for BoA paying zero taxes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGDueTQ9b4&NR=1

Shouting Thomas said...

OK, I am over the weiner thing now.

It was fun and everything but I am bored.

That's the thing with fags, Tights Ass. Always got to have new Weiner!

virgil xenophon said...

POGO@10:54/

I left a compliment for you on your theme at your post about the individual mandate this am--go see.

Trooper York said...

We used to go to Amish country on class trips when we were kids. On big buses and everytime we passed some Amish kids they would give us the finger or moon us or whatever.

You should have a good time Titus.

Trooper York said...

Just watch out for the milk because I don't think that pasteurize it.

Wait a minute....that's not a milk mustache....nevermind.

Chuck66 said...

Actually this right winger supports ending tax breaks and loopholes. It causes in-efficient acitivty. Cut the tax breaks, lower the tax rate, and the net effect is increase in tax revenue. Example...GE. If they loose their loopholes, but have less reason to look for them, they will be paying taxes again.

Pogo said...

" If true, is there a rationale for BoA paying zero taxes?"

Yes.
Corporations pay no taxes anyway.

All taxes are paid for by their customers in the form of an increase in price. Taxes on a business are always pushed onto the consumer.

They aren't just magically 'absorbed'.

Pogo said...

I saw that, Virgil; thanks.

And you're right; it should be Leftism, not Liberalism.

chickenlittle said...

ST wrote: That's the thing with fags, Tights Ass. Always got to have new Weiner!

Is that the gay version of Seven Macho's NPS?

Chuck66 said...

When I worked in finance for a large corporation, they had someone in the tax department who looked for tax give aways and similiar things.

It was a very profitable position for the company. A lot of states will give you free money if you open a facility in a certain area.

chickenlittle said...

deborah said...
Here's a short Uncut vid about interrupting a BoA conference. If true, is there a rationale for BoA paying zero taxes?

I recall a video of Paul Soglin inside the Capitol during the Sturm un Drang period where he advocated protesting banks like BoA as a more effective anti-Walker demonstration.

I see a connection.

foxtrot said...

Garage says:

"By the way, the MacIver Institute that Althouse likes to link to is not a news organization by any sense of the word, but a propaganda arm of the WI GOP."

True, but the video showing the asshole protesters interfering with the Special Olympic event in Madison speaks for itself.

And again, was it conservatives who decided to make complete asses of themselves, dressing up like self-entitled zombies, and gratuitously heckling everyone who logically feel they are morons for their childish actions?

E.M. Davis said...

I have Internet Explorer. Is that a browser?

No, it's a piece of shit.


WV: Moses. I supposes has roses on his toeses.

garage mahal said...

You didn't answer Deborah's question.

garage mahal said...

[@chicklet]

E.M. Davis said...

I have been watching The Sissy Boy Experiment on Anderson Cooper the past three days.

Again, the problem with CNN. I don't doubt this is a legitimate news story, but it's not front-page, three-day exposé stuff.

There's more important shit going on in the world.

E.M. Davis said...

Garage never met a non sequitur he didn't like.

chickenlittle said...

I concur with Pogo.

chickenlittle said...

[@garagemahal]

chickenlittle said...

@garage & @deborah: Why not go after higher capital gains taxes from the "evil" taxable individuals and shareholders like PSEU who own the stock?

But seriously, why don't you go after the 47% of Americans who pay no Federal income tax?

AllenS said...

If PayPal has a phone number, they sure don't want you to find out what it is. Try sending them an email. Same thing.

Marshal said...

"If true, is there a rationale for BoA paying zero taxes?"

Yes. They owe no taxes.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Old women who bite off tongues while on the shitter, zombies at a Special Olympics event and now this. That is some state you live in Professor.

MadTownGuy said...

The British counterpart, UK Uncut.

MadTownGuy said...

... and its subsidiary, Art Uncut.

garage mahal said...


But seriously, why don't you go after the 47% of Americans who pay no Federal income tax?


Why can't you answer the question?

What is your justification for BoA paying ZERO taxes?

Bruce Hayden said...

I am another one who sees the tax situation as a leftist conspiracy. The Democrats and conspiring RINOs can sell political patronage in the form of tax breaks to all those companies. And, in return, the politicians get campaign contributions while they work, and cushy lobbying jobs when they are finally turfed by their constituents.

That is what Crony Capitalism is all about. This Administration and the 111th Congress showed us how the game is really played.

As for Apple, my impression/understanding is that their top management (Jobs, et al.) have long tended to contribute to Democrats much more than Republicans.

The idea that top management at large companies (as well as the lawyers in large law firms, etc.) are Republicans or contribute primarily to Republicans, is probably 50 years out of date. They contribute much more to the Democrats because the Democrats are the ones more willing to sell their influence. It fits their theory of governing, while taking such money is really more hypocritical for conservatives than extra-marital sex. (And that is why the sitting Republican Senators in AK and UT lost their primary bids last election cycle - though the Alaska one managed to ultimately save her seat).

Think about it this way - a corporation can, say, pay $50 million over a period of years in taxes, or it can spend $10 million in lobbying costs to get a tax loophole. Or, in the case of GE, they can spend their money on lobbyists and a money losing TV network, have the later flog for the Democrats, and pay almost no taxes.

Bruce Hayden said...

What is your justification for BoA paying ZERO taxes?

Off the top of my head, maybe that they haven't really made much money, and may be having some residual problems from the (Democratic induced) banking crisis with mortgages going on right now.

Or, they could just have bought themselves enough tax loopholes, as noted above.

Bruce Hayden said...

But seriously, why don't you go after the 47% of Americans who pay no Federal income tax?

To be fair, not a lot of taxes would be raised.

But, again, what we have seen here is politicians selling their influence. They have long sold tax cuts, and in the case of that 47%, refunds of tax credits, for votes.

Things are only really coming to a head right now because Obama and the Democrats who ran the 110th and 111th Congress have cranked up federal spending by an additional, maybe, 4% of GDP, were selling favors like hot cakes (or, maybe beer at a football game), are borrowing that money from our grandchildren, and the government workers most benefited by it seem to be extraordinarily ungrateful to the rest of us for footing the bill for their salaries, and, in particular, their benefits.

Sigivald said...

I can sync my iPhone to my MacBook, why can’t I sync it to my values?

Want the State to have more money?

Send them a god-damn check.

(One wonders where these people think "taxes" come from, from those evil Corporations?

Raise those taxes - and then wonder why prices go up, or jobs in those industries disappear, or suddenly those evil executives aren't hiring people at their homes - and aren't starting new companies when they leave, either, if you manage to slash compensation.

And of course, likewise, if you manage to slash compensation, you've just made those expensive college degrees you want the state to back with loans... that much less valuable.)

I imagine these people think - without the slightest bit of reflection - that the Interests Of The State Are The Interests Of The People.

They're always so concerned about giant Evil Corporations influencing the State; yet they never manage to figure out that their own desire to maximize the State is exactly what makes influencing it valuable.

A State without power over something is a State that the something in question won't try to influence.

That is the solution to the "problem" of corporate influence - and a lot of others. But it's a solution that kills their pet project...

(Also, what Dead Julius said. Apple per se as a company isn't conspicuously liberal, despite conspicuous liberals liking it.

Certainly a search at OpenSecrets doesn't suggest Apple's actually all that politically active, at least in terms of spending its vast piles of money.)

Chuck66 said...

Bruce H, correct. It gets back to the gov't picking winners and losers. The gov't taxes and regulates heavily, then selectively gives some companies and institutions free passes. Those with connections.

chickenlittle said...

@garage: Asked and answered by Pogo. I'll add that corporate taxes of the sort you want (no passing on allowed!) would be paid by shareholders. Seems to me that shareholders could then be double taxed as individuals via capital gains under your scheme.

Also, corporations don't vote. They influence, but they don't vote. Why do you insist on giving 47% of Americans a free ride regarding Federal Income taxes? This not like was in the vaunted 1950s when everybody paid their "fair share." Could it be that you're counting on their votes?

Seeing Red said...

What is your justification for BoA paying ZERO taxes...........



They may be crashing.


-----------

Thanks, Titus, but I didn't need to know U were over a weiner.


Big tits, OTOH......lololol

Chuck66 said...

Everyone should be pay something into Federal income tax. Even if it is just a small token amount. Otherwise they have no stake in wasteful gov't spending. We are almost to the tipping point....51% pay nothing (directly).

Look what just happened in Wisconsin when those getting gov't funding and services have gotten too large. It's hard to go back.

Milwaukee said...

Oh my protestors in Apple stores calls for the most extreme measure of the New Order Police State, which has been quietly growing: Nuke them all! Fantasies of the right wing made visible--- giving warning to any citizen who would question off-shore profits of multi-nationals. And this is considered sane?

Want to bring some of those corporations home? Eliminate corporate income tax. Or reduce it to 15%. Simplify capital gains taxes. Make personal income tax 2% on first $15,000, with tax brackets going up 1% for the last $15,000 earned until reaching 20%. Eliminate all deductions, but allow mortgage interest to be phased out in 4 years. Find away to reduce cumbersome regulations and licensing.

Of course, those who have a vested interest in the clumsy system we have will fight this.

E.M. Davis said...

I hear Peter is starting his own protest group: Bush Uncut.

Wait, can't use the word Bush.

Pubes Uncut?

Bruce Hayden said...

I have Internet Explorer. Is that a browser?

No, it's a piece of shit
.

So, yesterday, I am talking to one of our IT people who had noticed that I had acquired a virus over the weekend. I asked how I had gotten it. Must be through your browser she said. Oh, and how does that work - playing dumb? Then I asked what HTML and Javascript functions allowed that? (Knowing that both are as secure as they can be made). Oh, but IE doesn't just support Javascript.

And, why do I sometimes use IE? Seems that the firm internal web site was written using Microsoft software, which, surprisingly, uses (non-standard) Microsoft proprietary web features (e.g. HTML extensions) that are only rendered properly by IE.

So, I suggested that the best way to slow down on the viruses that they were seeing might be to rewrite their internal web site to use standardized HTML and Javascript, so that we wouldn't need to use IE any more. Spread out over 200 lawyers, etc., this could be much cheaper than bugging us for a half an hour to remotely clean up the viruses.

Off, a bit, on a tangent, since Apple systems do seem to be a lot safer than Microsoft systems - except they aren't always that safe. Same IT department requires 5 digit locking for iPhones before they will support them, because they are apparently a lot less secure than Blackberrys.

Milwaukee said...

Isn't it true that Apple donates nothing to charity?

TMink said...

Corporations pay no taxes. Their customers pay the taxes.

Corporate tax is just more income tax with smoke and mirrors for the easily misled.

Trey

Bruce Hayden said...

Bruce H, correct. It gets back to the gov't picking winners and losers. The gov't taxes and regulates heavily, then selectively gives some companies and institutions free passes. Those with connections.

I don't think that it is really having connections any more. Rather, connections can, and are routinely, purchased. As I noted above, it is often far cheaper to bribe Congress or the Administration (at the federal level) for tax breaks, than to pay the taxes.

So, it is not really that the CEO of a company went to college with some Congressman, but rather, he went down onto K Street and found a former Congressman, paid him a couple million dollars. And that former politician meets with his former colleagues, passes some of the money along as campaign contributions, and some for junkets, and gets the legislation passed.

Bruce Hayden said...

Let me add to my last post. Governments are incapable of actually picking winners and losers, if your criteria is the good of society, or what trends are best, etc. The market does a far, far, better job of that.

But what governments can and routinely do is pick those who will win, regardless of merit, because they are the players willing and able to play the game that the politicians running the governments require.

(And, so, we have GM making a grossly overpriced electric vehicle, the biggest, and mostly only, purchaser for which being the federal government).

Carol_Herman said...

I'm a Jewish woman, and I hate the idea of circumcision. Yes, my opinion was overridden by my Jewish doctor husband. Who said it was a good thing to do for health reasons.

By the way, my ex's brother is also a doctor. He got stuck with the Berry Plan. Where he had to serve in the military. But could postpone the service until he completed medical school. He came out an OB/GYN. And, was sent to an army hospital facility in Kentucky.

At a recent Thanksgiving get together, the subject of circumcision came up. And, it's lost fans in the medical community. While my ex's brother told this story.

In Kentucky, there was a urologist who kept seeing men with uncut penises coming in, in droves. For circumcisions. At first, he said nothing. He just did his job. But he got so curious, there was finally a point where he asked one of his patients "WHY?"

The answer? Women don't like doing blow jobs on uncut penises.

While over in Israel, as soon as the Russians arrived, (3 million of them were absorbed). None of them circumcise their male children! In Russia it remains UNCUT. And, among Russian Jewish immigrants to Israel, circumcisions are NOT done!

While over in the muslim countries, circumcisions are done on both boys and girls.

What's so bad about bringing this topic out in the open?

If an Apple store was chosen? Well, where do you want those who'd like to prohibit circumcision to go? To Russia?

Do you think circumcision prevents AIDS? It never prevented syphilis or gonorrhea. Doing something like this to newborns, in the name of health, is a crock.

garage mahal said...

This not like was in the vaunted 1950s when everybody paid their "fair share." Could it be that you're counting on their votes?

The top rate in the 1950s was 90%. LOL. You nailed it.

deborah said...

Thanks for all the insights, all.

Calypso Facto said...

garage cites One Wisconsin as a credible source for refuting MacIver's credibility. Too funny.

And garage, maybe BoA uses the special loopholes it's been awarded for it's top 2 political donations in the 2008 election cycle: B. Obama and H. Clinton. But more likely it's because they showed a $2 billion dollar loss last year? Why do you hate BoA?

Phil 3:14 said...

Garage;
What is your justification for BoA paying ZERO taxes?

I'll take a stab at it (and I'm assuming your facts are correct)

1)Because the law allows them to -AND-
2)they have good tax lawyers

X said...

AllenS, from PayPal:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=security/report_problem#report_suspicious_activity


Phishing is an illegal attempt to "fish" for your private, sensitive data. If you believe you've received a phishing email, follow these steps right away:
Forward the entire email to spoof@paypal.com.
Do not alter the subject line or forward the message as an attachment.
Delete the suspicious email from your email account.
We'll send you an email response to let you know if the email is indeed fraudulent. In the meantime, don't click on any links or download any attachments within the suspicious email.

Learn more about phishing here.

ricpic said...

I'm surprised there wasn't applause for Apple when the righteous freaks accused it of not paying enough tribute to the state.

Chuck66 said...

Republican group is taking a pre-emptive strike in Wisconsin. They (forgot the name of the group) is running an ad against Harsforf challenger Shelley Moore. Portrayer Moore as an angry yelling union thug.

A quick internet search reveals that there may be truth to the claim. She's an NEA/WEAC director and seems to be into typical NEA causes.

ricpic said...

Women don't like doing blow jobs on uncut penises.

Does that mean ending circumcision will usher in an era of world peace?

Marshal said...

The liberal tax policy is "Always Keep It Changing". Why? Because every change is an opportunity to manipulate taxes in favor of your constituents.

Step One: When non-leftists want to reduce a punitive tax, scream until your constituents are handed equal benefits regardless of the fact they pay nothing.

Step Two: Reinstate the punitive tax.


Step One: "Invest" in "green" energy. Include tax breaks to justify increasing funding for the target groups; academia, government, and NGOs.

Step Two: Scream any business receiving the benefits in step one are "not paying their fair share".

Step Three: increase taxes.

Step One: Scream that taxes must be increased to save medicare.

Step Two: Give money to ACORN's children.

Step Three: scream that taxes must be increased to save medicare.

It's not like we don't know how this works.

Marshal said...

"[Garage}]Why do you hate BoA?"

Hating them is irrelevant. This is his talking point of the day. Asking questions presumes he's smart enough to understand his own criticism, which he clearly is not.

Michael said...

Garage: "What is your justification for BoA paying ZERO taxes?"

Neither I nor any other commenters need to "justify" what the US Tax code permits. You justify it. what is your fucking justification for BofA paying no taxes, asshole?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...Pastafarian I understand that Shouting usually makes threats against someone or group, so it is a challenge to figure out when to take him seriously...."

If Shouting Thomas is in possession of nukes then I'd say you could take him seriously.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Madison: all protests, all the time.

chickenlittle said...

Garage wrote: The top rate in the 1950s was 90%. LOL. You nailed it.

I'm aware of that Michael Mooresian argument. Still, even a G.I. paid Federal Income Tax in 1953 (link). So answer my question garage: How do you justify that around half of Americans pay no income tax? I posit that they are boughten votes for the Democratic party. What do you say?

garage mahal said...

You justify it. what is your fucking justification for BofA paying no taxes, asshole?

I can't justify these band of thieves and grifters paying no taxes. I see you're all butthurt about it though, must have struck a nerve? How does it feel to be an invesment banker these days anyways? Lowest form of human scum known to mankind. YOU fucked everything up. Nice work, asshole.

AllenS said...

Thank you, X.

I forwarded it.

Marshal said...

"Lowest form of human scum known to mankind."

This is your title garage. No contribution but hatred. Stew in it.

chickenlittle said...

@garage mahal: Sounds like a you've got personal issues with BoA.

Why don't you answer my question?

garage mahal said...

So answer my question garage: How do you justify that around half of Americans pay no income tax? I posit that they are boughten votes for the Democratic party. What do you say?

George Bush and Republicans set those rates, why not follow your "connection theory" and trace that back? The fact is the bottom does pay all sorts of taxes

Hell, illegal immigrants contributed roughly 11 billion in taxes last year. BofA? Zero.

chickenlittle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickenlittle said...

Way to not answer my original question? You waited until I left off the adjective "federal" to answer didn't you dumbfuck?

OK, I'm done playing nice to you. Screw what Darcy thinks about you. lol

Peter said...

I'm having some trouble understanding the concept here. If Apple is only taking tax deductions which it is entitled to take, how then is it a "tax cheat"?

Apple is, after all, a publicly traded corporation. Which presumably means that its board of directors has a ficuciary duty to the shareholders. Which would seem to imply a duty to pay no more taxes than required by law.

Do the protesters understand that the managers of a publicly traded corporation has no business giving away what is not theirs to give away?

If the protesters are angry that Apple is (just another) corporationi- with all that that implies- why don't they just say so?

Bruce Hayden said...

The fact is the bottom does pay all sorts of taxes

Most people pays a lot of taxes. But are they paying for themselves? Or, are they in a position where they benefit far more than they pay to the various levels of government?

For example, are they paying $20k or so per kid per year for public school? I would guess they aren't even paying $5k per kid.

The problem is that when people get to the point where they are not paying income taxes, they have a real incentive to vote largess to themselves, in the form of, for example, different tax credits. And, not paying their fair share for their kids' education lets them support giving the teachers and administrators more money, which, through automatic mandatory union contributions, that ultimately and invariably end up in Democratic coffers.

Marshal said...

Ah, garage, pretending Democrats don't exist and Republicans set taxes without regard to existing law.

I refuse to believe anyone is stupid enough to believe this. Garage, can you convince me otherwise?

More evidence a willingness to assert the asinine is a requirement of leftism.

Bruce Hayden said...

The reason that I have been on this rant this morning about Crony Capitalism and fascist (in the historical, and not currently popular understanding) governing principles, is that I have been dealing with such since the first of the year.

Next week, it is probable that "Patent Reform", in the guise of the "America Invents Act" will come up for a vote on the House floor. The economics are fairly straight forward - the proponents spend millions of dollars a year in defending themselves from patent infringement lawsuits. So, they banded together, spent, we estimate, $30-$40 million in lobbying, get one of their former patent counsels to head the USPTO, and appear to be home free, in their attempt to effectively gut the U.S. patent system for small companies and independent inventors (and, hence the Orwellian name, since its major purpose appears to be to reduce innovation by any except for the biggest companies).

At least 3 of the 4 Judiciary Committee chairs and ranking members seem to have been induced to put all their efforts behind the bill (Sens. Leahy and Hatch and Rep. Lamar Smith). We keep hearing that our opposition is too little and too late, ignoring that we have lobbied against the legislation for 5 years now. The problem is that we were never heard. Hearings, up until this last couple of weeks (after, unfortunately, the House Judiciary Committee voted the bill out), all the hearings were rigged and slanted. The only people allowed to testify were the proponents, and a couple of careful neutrals (which is why it was so essential to get the chairs and ranking members behind the bill).

So, I am reading on another screen a letter from Chairman Smith today attempting to refute the concerns of the chairs of the appropriations and budge committees. And he makes a big point about what the Commerce Department says about it. Well, who is setting patent policy in the Department? Could it be the same former corporate patent counsel of one of the biggest supporters of the bill (IBM), who just happens now to be the Director of the USPTO and an under-secretary of Commerce?

I really don't think that you can make this sort of thing up.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hell, illegal immigrants contributed roughly 11 billion in taxes last year...."

And cost American citizens about $20 billion in taxes.

Calypso Facto said...

"Hell, illegal immigrants contributed roughly 11 billion in taxes last year. BofA? Zero."

BofA paid hundreds of millions in taxes last year, garage: property, FICA, unemployment, etc., etc., just not INCOME taxes. And why was that? Because they were too busy trying to shore up their finances from absorbing the Countrywide acquisition after Countrywide collapsed due to too lenient lending policy enabled by FannieMae/FreddieMac. Unintended consequences and lasting costs of government interference in the mortgage market...

Bruce Hayden said...

they were too busy trying to shore up their finances from absorbing the Countrywide acquisition after Countrywide collapsed due to too lenient lending policy enabled by FannieMae/FreddieMac. Unintended consequences and lasting costs of government interference in the mortgage market...

And, keep in mind that the Fannie/Freddie meltdown was primarily the responsibility of the Democrats. They were the ones behind requiring these organizations, as well as the banks, to lend to people who couldn't afford the loan payments. And, then their top management was filed with former Democratic polls, who, no surprise, walked away with millions. And, as their reward for costing taxpayers trillions? Dodd and Frank got to write the legislation to supposedly clean up the mess - which is why all their "too-big-to-fail" friends were effectively exempted. In the end, all Dodd-Frank does is to drive up the costs of competing with the biggest players, who are effectively exempt, but were critical to the problem.

garage mahal said...

Because they were too busy trying to shore up their finances from absorbing the Countrywide acquisition after Countrywide collapsed due to too lenient lending policy enabled by FannieMae/FreddieMac

There was no law I'm aware of that forced Countrywide to issue high risk loans. In fact, they profited more from making them.

Michael said...

Garage: The tax code is something that you live with just as much as I do or as much as Bank of America does. Get over it.

You, of course, do not have the slightest idea of what I do or what any investment banker does. I raise capital for people who build buildings which house people who hire people, a process that you know and care nothing about. I am quite proud of what I do for a living and of how I get paid and how much I get paid. I wish it was more, a lot more. Every business that I have financed has hired hundreds of people as a consequence of the transaction. But that wouldn't interest you because you think an investment banker is a nice label for the people you blame for the financial collapse. You couldn't think that the people who borrowed more than they could repay could possibly be responsible for their own actions. Because in your world they aren't.

garage mahal said...

@Michael
I was going to apologize for going a bit over the top, but wasn't sure you were still around. Not sure what got into me honestly. You're wrong on what I know and care about, but I'll just leave it that.

Marshal said...

"Garage sais...There was no law I'm aware of that forced Countrywide to issue high risk loans. "

Hardly meaningful. The list of things you do know fits on one post it note.

Calypso Facto said...

"There was no law I'm aware of that forced Countrywide to issue high risk loans.

That's why I didn't SAY "forced". I said "enabled". Countrywide executives paid for their mistakes by losing their jobs, while Fannie and Freddie CEOs got punished by....taking home 30 million dollars.

But since you brought it up, government HAS actually been forcing high risk loans since the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, complicit with ACORN.

Marshal said...

Actually, there is a law. Under the Community Reinvestment Act banks are given loan quotas for target demographics even if those applicants' credit worthiness is lower.

While this is just one of the thousands of ways our government perverts business it was not the primary cause of the collapse. FM/FM caused the problem by stamping guarantees on mortgages they did not have the expertise to evaluate. And they did it because Barney Frank was "inclined to roll the dice a little bit". This created the ever upward spiral of home prices now referred to as the bubble.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

So let me see if I understand the rules of this game.

----------------

Conservative: "47% of people pay no income taxes."

Liberal: "That's deceptive! They pay other taxes!"

----------------

Liberal: "Bank of America pays no income taxes."

Conservative: "That's deceptive! They pay other taxes!"

----------------

Is that about right?

garage mahal said...

But since you brought it up, government HAS actually been forcing high risk loans since the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, complicit with ACORN.

There is no provision in the CRA that forces banks to make risky loans they otherwise wouldn't have made. The wording in the Act specifically cautions against it. The CRA probably lessened the crisis as it forced banks to loan in their communities instead of sending them to predatory subprime lenders whose only interest is to make a fast buck and bundle it up and sell it to somone that knows nothing about the loan/borrower.

Marshal said...

"The CRA probably lessened the crisis"

You internalized your indocrtination well. Congratulations!

deborah said...

Suffice it to say that that's the cost of doing business and both sides do it. Regulated bribery.

garage mahal said...

Bernanke:

The originate-to-distribute model seems to have contributed to the loosening of underwriting standards in 2005 and 2006. When an originator sells a mortgage and its servicing rights, depending on the terms of the sale, much or all of the risks are passed on to the loan purchaser. Thus, originators who sell loans may have less incentive to undertake careful underwriting than if they kept the loans. Moreover, for some originators, fees tied to loan volume made loan sales a higher priority than loan quality. This misalignment of incentives, together with strong investor demand for securities with high yields, contributed to the weakening of underwriting standards.

link

Calypso Facto said...

"When an originator sells a mortgage and its servicing rights, depending on the terms of the sale, much or all of the risks are passed on to the loan purchaser. "

And who is the loan purchaser taking all the risk? FM/FM, that's who, with 50% of mortgages pre-meltdown and approximately 90% today.

BTW, one of BofA's biggest expenses this year (significantly reducing earnings and, voila!, reducing taxes) is the req'd buyback of Countrywide loans that FM/FM helped/required CW make originally, but now has forced BofA to take back. What a tangled web those central planners create! If not for the actions of the federales, you'd have had your precious income taxes out of BofA last year, too.

Marshal said...

And why were buyers willing to accept these assets? Because they were guaranteed by the US Government.

Don't you get sand in your esys with your head under there?

garage mahal said...

@Calypso
Rather be talking about the Pack, honestly.

Karnival said...

Oh why won't these luddites find their inner lemming and find a cliff to run toward?

foxtrot said...

What the left doesn't seem to understand is that while a company as an entity may not pay a lot in taxes, its shareholders pay a lot due to capital gains taxes. The company's worth sits in the investors, all of which are obligated to pay taxes if the company is profitable.

The idea of taxing a company, then taxing its share holders for the same wealth, strikes me as double taxation.

Calypso Facto said...

"Rather be talking about the Pack, honestly.

I'm with ya man. Or beer!

ken in sc said...

Why should BOA pay no tax? Because BOA is my bank. They have my mortgage, two checking accounts and two savings accounts, plus a home equity account. I also have several shares of BOA stock. I bought it back when it was NCNB (No Cash for No Body). Why would I want you to take money away from me?

Mickey said...

Apple isn't as leftist as you'd think. Steve Jobs publicly stated that teacher's unions were to blame for failing schools and just a few days ago told the city of Cupertino that Apple would not provide free public Wi-Fi because it was already being taxed so much."If we didn't have to pay taxes, we'd be happy to provide free public Wi-Fi," he said.

Apple just looks leftist because it's in California. Recognizing that gays are people who want to make lifelong commitments and implementing environmentally sound business practices doesn't make you a statist.

dick said...

Allen S,

When I get something like that from PayPal or a bank or almost any supposed corporation that does not ring totally true, I forward the email to the company involved, in this case PayPal. They usually have an email like fraud@paypal.com or an equivalent and tell them I wonder if this is really from them. They will investigate and let you know.

For example, I am retired from a huge bank. I get emails from another bank that my address details need to be updated on my account. Since I know I don't have an account there, I just forward it to that bank and let them deal with it. The same with PayPal. I would doubt very seriously that PayPal gives a flying what browser you are using so I am guessing that this is a phishing attempt and you should just let PayPal deal with it and forget it. If you end up with a problem with PayPal because of the browser, then you can deal with it at that time.