May 26, 2011

"Saudi Facebook Campaign Calls on Men to Beat Women Drivers."

Says Gateway Pundit.
A facebook campaign launched in Saudi Arabia is urging men to beat women who are caught driving. The page already has 6,000 “likes.”...

"The call comes as activists are demanding the release of Manal al-Sharif, a Saudi woman who was jailed for defying the ban."
I'm a bit freaked out by this. When did that Facebook page start? Because I'd never heard of it before this morning. I'd heard of Manal al-Sharif's campaign, which involved a Facebook page, and my reaction, written Tuesday morning, included a hypothetical in which a Saudi man starts a Facebook campaign calling on men to beat women drivers. I wrote:
Isn't the real question is whether women should be allowed to drive, not whether organizing on Facebook incurs harsher punishment when you commit a crime? Think about some other crime — some crime that obviously should be a crime. I hesitate to describe a crime, but let's say some Saudi man thinks women who drive should be dragged out of their cars and beaten. He sets up a Facebook page to promote that opinion and gets 12,000 supporters. Then — twice — he drags a woman out of a car and beats her. Now, he is arrested. Let's say that in Saudi Arabia men who beat women for driving are normally just asked to promise not to do it again. Would you object to making an example out of the man who used Facebook?
Note that I hesitated to describe this crime, because I did not want to give anyone any ideas. I'm not saying I think the new Facebook is a result of my suggestion. I'm just saying I'm freaked out by the coincidence.

50 comments:

TMink said...

No coincidence, you were thinking in an empathic manner and spotted a coming trend. You were able to put yourself in the mindset of a peaceful and tolerant follower of Mohammed.

Trey

bagoh20 said...

I've always found you an inspiration myself. It just translates a little skewed.

george said...

Don't worry about inspiring these cretins to do such terrible things. Mohammed beat you to it by several centuries.

Besides, do you think they would listen to a woman?

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lincolntf said...

Very odd coincidence regarding the Saudi FB page. I suppose I could go "Like" the page to try to find it's date of origin. This oughtta be fun.

Pogo said...

FBI behavioral analysts have to learn to think like serial killers in order to assist in their capture.

They also get freaked out by their ability to learn evil.

But it's just part of knowing your enemy, well enough to predict their next move.

And it demonstrates how deep down we retain some connection to our soulless reptilian brain, the one that most animates such people.

E.M. Davis said...

Way to go, Professor.

Ironclad said...

When women disobey men - the Quranic punishment is for the man to "leave her bed" first and then use "light beatings" to insure that she obeys if the first loss doesn't stir her to fall in line. Muttawas (religious police - the Haia) routinely beat people that don't toe the line in Saudi too. So it's not all unusual to see a call for this. But better than just calling for her to be killed - like some do when they disagree.

MarkG said...

I'm not confident that they're good at thinking for themselves. You're not off the hook yet.

Lincolntf said...

Not showing up in FB search under (The) Iqal Campaign. Guess the Saudis probably have a separate (in Arabic) version.

Ron said...

Good thing this isn't Bloggingheads... Bob Wright would blame you!

Larvell said...

You can't blame Ann -- "Althouse" means "peace" in Esperanto. It's not her problem that a very small number of her followers (no more than 15%, I'd say) misconstrue her teachings.

LoryKC said...

If this were a work of fiction, no one would buy it. Incredible.
I suspect you are right--that the real reason for her arrest was for organizing, publicly, on facebook.
So while it seems ironic that these men would also organize on facebook, I can only assume it is to make sure that they reach her facebook audience?

Shanna said...

Besides, do you think they would listen to a woman?

Heh. You were just thinking about the natural extension (for Saudi's) of the other campaign so it's not surprising it happened.

ironrailsironweights said...

And to think that America metaphorically fellates Shitty Arabia.

Peter

LoryKC said...

(Or Fox news is inspired by you and reported a page that could exist...) ;)

William said...

Sexual mores are very much a part of your time and culture, but the people of that time and culture always think that they are acting according to graven, immutable laws when they follow such mores. I suppose the Saudis have as much trouble accepting women drivers as we have of accepting gay marriage....That said, men who advocate beating up women are low lifes. Now that's an immutable moral law.....There's a lot of things I'm tepid or undecided about, but I like to think that I'm willing to learn and change. The Saudis seem to be a society that literally worship their rigidity.

Patrick said...

Prof. Althouse - this may not exactly be what you'd like to hear, but I am in the midst of reading Hitchens' memoir, in which he relates the episode of learning of a soldier's death, and learning further that part of what motivated or inspired the soldier to fight in Iraq was Hitchens' own writing in support of the war. Hitchens eventually meets the family, it is quite a touching piece.

At any rate, I rather doubt your blog is widely read among those in Saudi Arabia working such mischief.

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm not in favor of beating Saudi women drivers. But, I want to look closely at William's statements. Not that anybody will pay attention to what I write, although it is common sense.

I suppose the Saudis have as much trouble accepting women drivers as we have of accepting gay marriage....That said, men who advocate beating up women are low lifes. Now that's an immutable moral law.....There's a lot of things I'm tepid or undecided about, but I like to think that I'm willing to learn and change. The Saudis seem to be a society that literally worship their rigidity.

Gay marriage does not relate to women driving in any one-to-one way that I can imagine. Opposition to gay marriage is the natural inclination of fathers who want their sons to do their filial duty and produce sons who bear the patriarchal family name.

In America, we are told that this natural desire of men that their sons should pass on their family name is of no importance. I say bullshit. Althouse on this very blog has stated that immortality concerns her. She's invested herself in the bullshit concept of immortality through some sort of intellectual achievement. I think that the traditional concept of attaining immortality through one's progeny is far more solid.

This immutable moral law stuff is absolute bullshit. If I were a Saudi man looking at Western society, I'd be very inclined to think about putting my foot down right now while there's still time.

In the West now, women are demanding the right to act and dress like whores, to produce bastard children like whores, to welfare support for their bastard children... and they want to put men in jail if they object in any way to this arrangement.

The old fashioned life of Saudi Arabia certainly has some drawbacks. So does the feminist hell of the West. If I were a Saudi man, I'd be giving some serious thought to "worshipping rigidity."

Shouting Thomas said...

And, in case all of you who are entranced by your own "tolerance" don't understand what I've said, I'll shorted it down into something you might understand:

The feminist hell of the West is just as horrifying as the backward hell of the Arab world.

rhhardin said...

I remember an old photo of a woman flying something huge into Saudi Arabia with her purse hung on one of the instrument panel knobs.

Simon said...

*Sigh*

I wish I could fix the world.

I could give you a response to this post running to hundreds of lines, the tone rippling between sadness, anger, and cold analysis, but what it ultimately boils down to is—

I wish I could fix the world.

Robert said...

Parody becomes reality.

I read once, somewhere, during the desegregation era, that someone wrote, as sarcasm, that Southern whites didn't mind standing with blacks, they just didn't want to sit with them. Then a court ordered a public library desegregated, and the library's response was to take out all the chairs.

Jennifer said...

hi - just came across your blog and will bookmark it. I'm a writer/blogger and posted about Saudi women drivers yesterday, also wrote about DSK and Arnold Schwarzenegger recently - check it out when you have a chance, and thanks!
Jennifer
http://jenniferbruni.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/driving-miss-al-daisy/

http://jenniferbruni.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/the-politically-pathological-penis/

Andrea said...

I don't know. This whole immortality-through-your-progeny thing seems like a crock to me. For one thing, once you're dead, no one will look at your kids and think "There goes Shouting Thomas, still alive!" No, they'll think of your kids, who have separate identities and lives from you. Do you want to be thought of as your father's son, or yourself? And what about your father -- if he's only his father's son, and that's how one is supposed to gauge his importance, what does that mean to your identity?

For another thing, family names being more important than the individual family members is the sort of thing that we fought a revolution to get away from. In the US you are supposed to be judged on your individual merits, not on the fact that you come from such and such a family.

And lastly, how are you supposed to measure this "immortality through my genes"? Traditionally most Western cultures do it through the father's line. But what if you only have daughters? There go your immortal genes, namelessly given over to some other guy's family.

It's not that I disagree with you on the whole feminist-bastard-hell; it's just that invoking the magical "family" isn't necessarily a solution.

edutcher said...

To show their solidarity with their Muslim friends, all Althouse trolls will start beating all women they see driving.

PS Mark Zuckerberg is a big Lefty. What, O what, does he think of this?

WV "whorot" What the doctor sees when he looks at the hooker's undercarriage.

The Crack Emcee said...

Beating women for driving? That's awful.

Find another reason.

Shouting Thomas said...

For one thing, once you're dead, no one will look at your kids and think "There goes Shouting Thomas, still alive!" No, they'll think of your kids, who have separate identities and lives from you. Do you want to be thought of as your father's son, or yourself? And what about your father -- if he's only his father's son, and that's how one is supposed to gauge his importance, what does that mean to your identity?

You've got it all wrong.

I remember and honor my grandfathers and father. I want to be thought of both as my self and as my father's son.

What it means to my identity is that I have a stake in the future. We aren't talking about "gauging importance." We're talking about the old fashioned struggle for the sire's DNA to survive into the future. You know, that "natural" stuff that the left is so obsessed with, but seems to actually hate in practice.

In some way, you're very confused about this concept of immortality as it relates to familial life and public life.

Shanna said...

I wish I could fix the world.

Yes.

The feminist hell of the West is just as horrifying as the backward hell of the Arab world.

No it isn't. That is just insane.

Beating women for driving? That's awful. Find another reason.

This, however, is funny.

John Burgess said...

I wrote about this several days ago.

In fact, I've been covering the issue of Saudi women's driving for years.

The issue is that there is no Saudi law that prohibits women from driving. The King has publicly said so. He's also said he wants to see his daughters driving. The highest levels of the religious establishment have said, publicly, that women's driving is not forbidden by Islam.

Popular sentiment--i.e., Saudi society--however, is opposed because they see too many potential dangers in it. Whether it's that women would become vulnerable to male predators in the event of an automobile breakdown or that women would become sexual predators because they were loosed upon society, they don't like it. They see it as a 'sin', if not a crime.

Changing a culture doesn't happen quickly, but it only happens from within.

Patrick said...

Jennifer,

I looked (very quickly) at your blog - it looks good. If I may say, however, your request to check it out sounds like the spam invitations I get.

Anyway, nice post on art, in which I have some interest, but next to no knowledge.

Triangle Man said...

@Jennifer

You can't truly call yourself a writer/blogger until you learn to make a link in HTML.

Methadras said...

Whether this is real or not still belies the fact that Islam allows this to even occur. Just another nail in the coffin for why this socio-religious-death cult needs to be extinguished.

wv = flogger

HKatz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

You quaintly called it 'old fashioned'. What a joke.

Althouse is a feminist. Like all political agendas, feminism demonizes its opposition by calling out the worst excesses of that opposition.

And conveniently omits the worst excesses of on its own side.

Fred4Pres said...

A Saudi man beats his wife to show how much he loves her. If he did not care he would not beat her.

That is why [the Western] lady is a tramp.

Mary Beth said...

Why don't any of the articles about it link to it? I can't find a FaceBook page for the Iqal Campaign or for الحملة العقال

HKatz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Crack Emcee said...

ST,

You've got it all wrong.

I remember and honor my grandfathers and father. I want to be thought of both as my self and as my father's son.


I didn't say it but I thought the exact same thing.

Shanna,

This, however, is funny.

Whew! I wondered if anyone would understand my humor. Thanks.

Triangle Man,

@Jennifer

You can't truly call yourself a writer/blogger until you learn to make a link in HTML.


This is true. If some idiot isn't calling you a whore for making a link to your blog/posts, you aren't a real blogger.

Mary Beth,

Why don't any of the articles about it link to it? I can't find a FaceBook page for the Iqal Campaign or for الحملة العقال

I thought the same thing, and I've read several articles on it. Nobody's linking to it. Weird.

Oligonicella said...

Andrea --

"For another thing, family names being more important than the individual family members is the sort of thing that we fought a revolution to get away from."

No it isn't. "Sort of thing" is bullshit for "I got no proof but it's what I believe".

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

I'm with Crack on this one - some women need beatin'!

Granted, but you've got to admit there's a whole lotta men that do too. That adult baby guy, just for starters.

William said...

I read Shouting Thomas and Crack Emcee with interest. They are both skilled musicians and have a strong point of view which they express vividly. They would not be on anyone's short list for Dean of Studies at Sarah Lawrence, but they have learned the lessons that life has taught them. That said, it is fair to observe that while vajazzling and clitorectomies come from the same deep wellspring of femenine idiocy, one is rather more likely to lead to unhappiness.

HKatz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrea said...

Gosh I did strike a nerve, didn't I? Some people really hate the idea that when they're dead they won't have any of this "stake in the future" any more, because they'll be dead. Or what if your grandkid becomes a criminal? So much for leaving your future in the hands of your progeny.

Or maybe it's just me. Do most guys only care about kids because of this whole "immortality" thing? They don't care about the kids in themselves as people? I can't believe that. We need to stop thinking of other people as means to an end. That's what feminists and all these "ists" do. That's the problem.

Oh, and Oligoncella? I didn't make up the idea that Americans consider individual merit to be more important than what family one comes from. That's what I meant -- I'm not sure what you're talking about. Obviously this ideal has been damaged by decades of celebrity worship of people like the Kennedys, but it still holds for most normal American life.

One more thing, to finish up addressing Shouting Thomas: women already have the "right to dress like whores" and have babies out of wedlock in this country. I'm not condoning this behavior, only pointing out that that ship sailed a long time ago.

The Crack Emcee said...

Andrea,

Gosh I did strike a nerve, didn't I?

No, you said something stupid, based on an ignorance of male culture.

Some people really hate the idea that when they're dead they won't have any of this "stake in the future" any more, because they'll be dead.

Um, Andrea, I'm not just an atheist, but an ATHEIST - I know there's nothing after me - and I have no kids. Strike Two.

Or maybe it's just me.

NOW we're getting somewhere,...ponder that one for a while and I'll get back to you.

The Crack Emcee said...

William,

I read Shouting Thomas and Crack Emcee with interest. They are both skilled musicians and have a strong point of view which they express vividly. They would not be on anyone's short list for Dean of Studies at Sarah Lawrence, but they have learned the lessons that life has taught them.

Sarah Lawrence? Sarah Lawrence? Does she get down? (I was into Vickie Lawrence when I was a kid,...HUGE Carol Burnett fan,...)

WV - "yogis": Jesus, the bastards follow me everywhere,...

Andrea said...

Geez, Crack, I wasn't even talking to you. And I'm disappointed that you used the sadly common tactic of calling someone who says something you don't like "stupid." I mean, I never claimed to be all that knowledgeable of "male culture," but I do know that fashions come and go and I'm just wondering if all this "children are our immortality" stuff isn't just a fashion. I mean, obviously, children are the future, as the cliché goes, but "immortality"? Or perhaps I am just picking on a bad word choice.

Anyway, I don't have kids either. Never wanted any. I'm not into that whole genes-passing-on, extrapolating little physical bits of me into the future kind of thing. Also I don't like kids much; I readily acknowledge I'm too selfish. By the way, one more question -- how do adopted kids factor into this "immortality" thing? I wonder if this whole fascination with family genes is one reason adoption has become so difficult. I'm adopted -- I get the feeling that people nowadays don't think of adopted kids as being "real" kids of the parents who adopted them. I never got that feeling when I was a kid; I feel sorry for today's adopted kids. Hey, remember that whole fad about getting some stranger woman pregnant with your and your wife's embryo if you couldn't have children together? Whatever happened to that? Too complicated, I guess. There was a "Barney Miller" episode about that. The pregnant woman decided to keep the baby. The husband gave this speech to his wife about how he didn't want to adopt because he wanted to have a child that had their characteristics (put more poetically sitcom-y, of course). You were supposed to feel sorry for the guy, but I just wanted to punch him in the nose.

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ecks why said...

allah approved misogyny is one of many severe problems with islam which is dangerous no matter how it is packaged...

the twin fogs of political correctness & ignorance must be dispersed before western society better understands this menace. even a brief review of islamic theology & history quickly exposes the deadly roots of this evil ideology.

see the links in the pdf version below for more accurate info about islam
==========

islam is a horrible ideology for human rights

5 key things about islam

1. mythical beliefs - all religions have these (faith) because its part of being a religion: having beliefs without proof until after the believer dies. the problem is people will believe almost anything.

2. totalitarianism - islam has no seperation of church and state: sharia law governs all. there is no free will in islam: only submission to the will of allah as conveniently determined by the imams who spew vapors to feather their own nests. there are no moderate muslims: they all support sharia law.

3. violence - islam leads the pack of all religions in violent tenets for their ideology & history: having eternal canonical imperatives for supremacy at all costs and calling for violence & intimidation as basic tools to achieve these goals.

4. dishonesty - only islam has dishonesty as a fundamental tenet: this stems from allah speaking to mohamhead & abrogation in the koran which is used to explain how mo's peaceful early life was superseded by his warlord role later.

5. misogyny - present day islam is still rooted in 8th century social ethics: treating females as property of men good only for children, severely limiting their activities, dressing them in shower curtains and worse.

conclusions ??

there really are NO redeeming qualities for this muddled pile of propaganda.

islam is just another fascist totalitarian ideology used by power hungry fanatics on yet another quest for worldwide domination and includes all the usual human rights abuses & suppression of freedoms.

graphics version
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5792/dangero.jpg

1 page pdf version - do file/download 6kb viewer doesn't show fonts well, has better fonts header footer links, great for emailing printing etc
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_UyNP-72AVKYWNiNTFlYTEtMTA1ZC00YjhiLTljMDUtMDhhNDE0NDMzNmYz