April 18, 2011

"The Tea Party is often seen as being made up entirely of cranky middle-aged people who don’t like paying taxes."

"But here is [a] smart, engaging young woman speaking with the poise of someone older.... There is much debate over what long-lasting impact the Tea Party will have, if any. If there are many more like Tricia Willoughby, I wouldn’t underestimate it."

Rachael Larimore, in Slate.

134 comments:

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shanna said...

Is there anybody who likes paying taxes? I'm not getting why that's a negative.

The only people who don't mind taxes are the ones who don't pay them.

Comrade X said...

The democrat party is mainly government employees who pay no net taxes.

Chip S. said...

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic.

Shanna said...

Govt employees still pay taxes, even if their salary is provided by the govt. (and not all govt employees are dems-hello military!)

I'm talking about the 50% or so of the public who make a profit on their tax return.

themightypuck said...

So is this 1967 all over again? I am looking forward to free drugs and a summer of love.

PETER V. BELLA said...

The Democrat Party is made up of people who demand people sacrifice and suffer to correct their own mistakes. They do this through confiscatory taxes- on all of us.

Comrade X said...

well, I didn't say all government employees were dems and I didn't say they paid no taxes.

edutcher said...

You can tell she hasn't seen photos from many Tea Parties. A great many of the participants are younger and young Miss Willoughby may well be one of the standard bearers of the Roe Effect.

Coketown said...

What Althouse didn't catch on video was the speaker backstage, taking off her 14-year-old-girl wig to reveal a cranky middle aged woman who doesn't like paying taxes.

PETER V. BELLA said...

As I have said before, each and everyone of us can pay more taxes and help the government out. The evil hypocrites think this is silly, because being true liberals, progressives, and commies, they do not want to pay taxes either- they just want everyone else to pay.

Deductions and exemptions are strictly voluntary. SO, if you truly believe taxes are the answer to government fiscal malfeasance, do not take them and stay in the higher tax bracket and pay one hundred percent of the tax on your income. Otherwise STFU and stop embarrassing yourself.

Conserve Liberty said...

I have worked at least 1000 hours yearly for the last 25 years with Boy Scouts, Venturers and their adult leaders, teaching them HOW to lead. I can tell you with authority that there are hundreds of thousands of young people like Tricia Willoughby, in every community in America.

I do not fear for who will lead this country in 25 years - I know who they are. I work with them every day.

AprilApple said...

We don't mind paying our fair share. When it tips into unfair territory and after we are forced to bail out bad behavior and pay for waste and fraud - we do get cranky. Sue us.

Bob said...

The problem I have with the anti-tea-party crowd is that it's so overwhelmingly white.

Phil 3:14 said...

The opening sentence is striking:

Just when it was looking like we could write off Sarah Palin as a presidential candidate, she went and gave a rousing speech this weekend at the Madison, Wis., Tea Party rally that The Week called a “grand slam.”

Though no fan of Ms. Palin, what I heard of the speech (until the youtube stalled) was good. She went in a little too much detail regarding deficit numbers, but overall she sounded good.

And yes this 14 year old sounded good also.

When I first started to read the linked article I thought it was going to say:

Just when it was looking like we could write off Sarah Palin as a presidential candidate, she went and gave a rousing speech this weekend at the Madison, Wis., Tea Party rally. Or at least the "Sarah Palin" who inhabited the 14 year old body of Tracy Willoughby, gave a rousing speech

I guess i'm jaded from all of the media vitriol towards Palin.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Well, then, she'll have to be destroyed. Young, and a female to boot? We can't have people like that expressing conservative ideas! Females and young people belong to liberalims. If people see this sort of thing, they might actually start thinking for themselves about which party actually represents them!

Since she's female, I liberals hereby have full permission to throw as many crude sexual jokes as possible at her, the cruder the better. So she's underaged? Did that stop them when it was Sarah Palin's daughters? Hell no!

Remember, she was asking for it.

- Lyssa

(/sarc, of course!)

chickelit said...

Just when it was looking like we could write off Sarah Palin as a presidential candidate, she went and gave a rousing speech this weekend at the Madison, Wis.,

I don't get the "we" business. Was she just being sarcastic?

Big Mike said...

That was written by a Slate editor?!?!

If I hadn't followed the link I wouldn't have believed it.

And it's not just that we mind paying taxes. As Shanna pointed out upthread, everybody who pays taxes (now less than 50% of the households in this country) hates paying taxes. It's when we see our taxes being so obviously wasted that we stand up and let the politicians know that it's time and past time to pull their heads out of their rectums.

Case in point, we subsidize farmers not to grow crops, meanwhile people in the world are starving and prices in the supermarket are skyrocketing.

Browndog said...

I see we may need a reminder of the genesis of the tea party movement.

It wasn't about taxes.

It was Obama plan on how to spend them

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I'm starting to wonder how much longer it's going to take to have the "conservatives are old" stereotype wear off. For me, when I meet a woman in her 50's who's not either a housewife or heavily involved in some sort of conservative activity, I assume that she's a lib. But a woman my age (30-ish), I find it can go either way.

Men are a little harder to guess about, though I can usually assume that an older man (say, over 65) is likely to be conservative.

- Lyssa

Brian Hancock said...

So is this Feminism realized or the death of Liberalism? I hope it's the former and some of the latter.

windbag said...

It's semantics, I know, but the statement "The Tea party is often seen as being..." should be "The Tea Party is often portrayed as being..." MSM still controls the narrative...for now.

Henry said...

From the article: Cynics will point out that—gasp!—she is homeschooled, as if that ought to discredit her.

No. It discredits the teachers' union. The ones that are protesting to protect their monopoly at the expense of children.

Trooper York said...

"Men are a little harder to guess about, though I can usually assume that an older man (say, over 65) is likely to be conservative."


That's older and wiser there skinny pants.

Synova said...

"That was written by a Slate editor?!?!"

Perhaps the XX people (or one of them) are realizing that females come in more than one political orientation.

I think that when women are finally allowed their own opinions that feminism will truly be "over".

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Bob: The problem I have with the anti-tea-party crowd is that it's so overwhelmingly white.

As compared to what? The Madison teachers' unions?

(P.S. The tea party is only "overwhelmingly white" if you consider America to be "overwhelmingly white." http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx)

(P.P.S. If that was sarcasm, and I hope it was, I apologize.)

- Lyssa

Henry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
windbag said...

A professor in college once made the comment, "The only thing scarier than an old liberal is a young conservative."

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Big Mike: That was written by a Slate editor?!?!

If I hadn't followed the link I wouldn't have believed it.



Ms. Larimore is Slate's token conservative. In 2008, they took a poll of who everyone was going to vote for. Out of about 50 contributors, I think 2 said third party, a few weren't citizens and couldn't vote (but it was clear who they were rooting for), and she was the only one who said McCain.

At least you can admire their honesty.

If you want to laugh/be outraged, check out Slate's Political Gabfest podcast. It's generally pretty good (for silly liberalism), but every now and then they simply stumble upon an arugument that you and I would consider entirely obvious common sense, and they just sit their, going "Whoa, I never thought of that. Hmmmm." They're completely oblivious to the bubble they live in.

- Lyssa

Synova said...

"Bob: The problem I have with the anti-tea-party crowd is that it's so overwhelmingly white."

He said "anti-tea-party" Lyssa. I figured he was making a joke about the usual "tea party is white" claim.

(Where I grew up in Minnesota the "minorities" were German.)

Henry said...

@Lyssa -- Bob wrote: anti-tea-party. It's sarcasm, but not irony.

pbAndj said...

Do we know if this girl is the product of the unionized public school teachers?

Or, is she in a private school?

Home schooled?

Lucien said...

If enough Tea Party candidates were to win election in a state legislature to be necessary to a governing coalition involving either major party, then it could have a real future as an alternative party.

Absent real bottom-up political power it will eventually fizzle or become coopted by some other branch of the Republican party.

Synova said...

Homeschooled.

It says so in the article you didn't read. ;-)

lyssalovelyredhead said...

He said "anti-tea-party" Lyssa. I figured he was making a joke about the usual "tea party is white" claim.

Damn. I knew I must be missing something obvious, there. (not that we haven't seen my interpretation portrayed enough to make one expect it.)

Sorry, Bob! Wish I had one of those trashcan thingies.

Roger J. said...

pbAndj: reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it.

Synova nailed your dumb ass to the wall

Chuck66 said...

I don't like paying excessive taxes as I can donate my cash to worthy causes and have it spent in a much more efficient manner.

-Salvation Army = worthy cause

-Garrison Keillors salary = not worthy cause

Dust Bunny Queen said...

We don't mind paying our fair share. When it tips into unfair territory and after we are forced to bail out bad behavior and pay for waste and fraud - we do get cranky. Sue us.

AND....then wer get lectured by the people who are taking from the pot and who criticize the stew of which they did little to make. Called greedy because we want to keep some of the money we earned. Called heartless because we think that people should bear some responsibility for their own lives and their own decisions.

The Grasshoppers are angry because the Ants have gotten tired of doing the work. And when we complain about the fraud, waste and corruption they yell shame, shame....shame.

What are the grasshoppers going to do when the ants revolt?

rhhardin said...

But here is [a] smart, engaging young woman speaking with the poise of someone older

It's a special olympics, apparently.

We need some huggers.

Conservative Playa said...

Too bad Leona Helmsley is pushing up daisies. She would have loved the Tea-party.

Also a correction for Big Mike. Everybody pays taxes. 47% do not make enough money to pay income taxes. Republicans rather civilly refer to them as "lucky duckies":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

pbAndj said...

"It says so in the article you didn't read. ;-)"

I picked up on a home school vibe when I heard her.

Not that there's anything wrong w/ that.

In addition to effectively learning what her parents tell her, odds are that she's a good speller too.

Roger J. said...

pbandj-when nailed to the wall for your dumbass remark always respond with snark--good call

pbAndj said...

Roger,

I'd fault myself for not clicking on the link. So, the reading test was never taken.

Is it a crime to not click on Althouse's links?

MarkG said...

Do we know if this girl is the product of the unionized public school teachers?

The public school students are in the back of the crowd, booing and wearing sock puppets on their hands.

pbAndj said...

"The public school students are in the back of the crowd, booing and wearing sock puppets on their hands."

I thought that was the teachers.

Big Mike said...

@Playa, correction duly noted.

rhhardin said...

The theory on the left is that so long as there is one rich person, that means that wages aren't high enough. There's still blood in the turnip.

There's no economic dynamics for them, like the entire society descends into subsistence poverty if the rich can't save and invest the resulting capital.

Capital = extra money, that blood in the turnip.

Capital = the reason the ditch digger with power equipment earns a thousand times more than the ditch digger with a shovel.

cubanbob said...

Shanna said...
Govt employees still pay taxes, even if their salary is provided by the govt. (and not all govt employees are dems-hello military!)

I'm talking about the 50% or so of the public who make a profit on their tax return.

4/18/11 5:35 PM

If you live off other people's taxes you don't pay taxes. The so-called taxes you pay are actually a salary adjustment but not a real tax.

Roger J. said...

pbandJ--not clicking on the links is not a crime--it suggests you are letting your preconceptions drive your responses in the absence of facts presented to you.

That, sir, makes you look very much like an ideologue--not that theres anything wrong with that, mind you

pbAndj said...

Roger,

So I'm an ideologue because I don't read Slate links, but I do listen to right wing radio for a few hours everyday. Not to mention reading con comments here, and elsewhere.

If I'm an ideologue, what is a home schooled fourteen year old who can regurgitate her parents' views w/o missing a beat?

Henry said...

If I'm an ideologue, what is a home schooled fourteen year old who can regurgitate her parents' views w/o missing a beat?

Someone far more thoughtful than you, apparently.

Browndog said...

In addition to effectively learning what her parents tell her, odds are that she's a good speller too.

As in, she "effectively" learned English at age 14?

FAIL.

....on your seemingly cleverly disguised insult.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this generations debt falls to the next generation to pay...unless you are "public schooled".

Roger J. said...

pbandj: I dont own a tv nor do i listen to any talk radio--used to subscribe to NPR before they jumped the shark.

My point was this: how do you KNOW she was regurgitating her beliefs? you are making assumptions--whose beliefs are you regurgitating?

I think John Maynard Keynes said it best: when the facts change what do YOU do? (paraphrasing of couse)

Comrade X said...

used to subscribe to NPR before they jumped the shark.


I feel ya bro. I'm an involuntary subscriber too.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

I am so sick of this shit and we have so far to go.

windbag said...

If I'm an ideologue, what is a home schooled fourteen year old who can regurgitate her parents' views w/o missing a beat?

You know this how?

Henry said...

@Conservative Playa -- The 47% figure is a huge problem, but it usually plays out the way it has in this thread. The reason that many people don't pay income tax is because of the welter of tax deductions and credits at the bottom end of the scale. I have three kids and a mortgage and a huge pre-tax health deduction so I know this very well.

What it means is that many government expenditures are paid for with the equivalent of flat taxes -- FICA and, at the state/locality level, sales and property taxes.

Making the Federal Income Tax more progressive, or even slapping on a wealth tax, totally ignores this reality.

A marginally progressive income tax with fewer credits and deductions is far more fair.

Personally I think Rand Paul's tax proposals should be more progressive, but he's the one that's proposed this approach, not the dems. The Progressive caucus has proposed more social security taxes.

If you want to pay for a big, happy, Federal government, you need a big, broad-based tax to pay for it. So long as the income tax only nicks 47% of the population, it is payroll taxes that have to fill that role.

That is a scandal.

And I know that side of the question as well since, on a significant portion of my income, I pay self-employment tax.

William said...

Clinton or some other fat cat democrat is always claiming that he wants to pay higher taxes. Total load. This is like the president of Coca Cola claiming that he, also, has to pay higher prices for Coke when he raises the prices of said beverage. The democrats make their money by the arbitrage of government services and taxes. The Clinton family made 100 million in just eight years. The people who don't mind higher taxes are the people who sell the loopholes to higher taxes. OK, there are some Republicans among their midst, but it's a Democrat franchise.

Synova said...

"In addition to effectively learning what her parents tell her, odds are that she's a good speller too."

;-) Undoubtedly.

I homeschooled my kids until just a couple years ago (my 9th grader is in her first year of "school", my 8th grader her third, 11th grader her third and my son started at community college and never went to "school.") The assumed "problem" that homeschooled kids learn the world view their parents teach them is something I'm familiar with.

There are a couple of true things to keep in mind. First, there is more diversity in world-view *between* homeschooling families than there is in public schools. Thus homeschool produces quite a number of confident and articulate young people with widely variable world views instead of the same old public school liberal mash-up. Second, a child who is purposefully isolated from other points of view (on the rare occasions this actually happens) knows above all else that those views exist. And Thirdly, the idea that it's the duty of schools to *remove* children from the ideology of their parents (and I've heard this any number of times) is offensive to liberty and American sentiment as well as SCOTUS rulings (Pierce vs. the Society of Sisters, IIRC.)

rhhardin said...

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this generations debt falls to the next generation to pay...unless you are "public schooled".

Not so.

The next generation also inherits the means to pay the debt, namely the bonds.

What they lose is their inheritance.

It's eating up all this generation's savings.

That represents poverty in the future, owing to lack of savings.

Bob said...

> Sorry, Bob! Wish I had one of those trashcan thingies.

Apologies from lovely redheads are always accepted.

Roger J. said...

pbandj: you have been presented with several comments re homeschooling--please tell us how you know that the young lady is regurgitating her parents beliefs--

Synova said...

It's good for young people to learn what their parents teach them. It's appropriate for children to be given (yes, "given") the coherent framework of a world-view that they can then, as all young people do, compare to the world as they experience it and make what changes are necessary so that what remains in the end is *their* world-view. Not that any of us ever stop adjusting and modifying that framework.

The (rather common) idea that it's better to deny children the security of one coherent framework for understanding the world during their formative years, but rather give them all sorts of disjointed and contradictory ones is very nearly abusive.

And yet we so often hear that it's good for parents to have to try to repair damage done during the school week, to put their world view in competition to what else a child is taught, and they aren't supposed to complain about that.

Also... having had three 14 year olds (my youngest is 14 in a month and then I will have had four 14 year olds) I will say that they are firmly individuals with their own ideas at 14. Every one of them.

If this girl agrees with her parents it is because what she sees of the world agrees with what she was taught. And since no one has tried to claim that anything she said in her speech was *wrong* I don't see the problem.

Browndog said...

About time we got to where the libtards are going...

INDOCRINATION

Loving parents passing their value system down to their children is..wrong.

However, institutionalized indoctrination via public school curriculum is...mandatory.

Only teachers care about children...only they can teach proper beliefs.

Lack of home schoolers attending the anti-Walker rallies at the Capitol has been duly noted-

Clearly their parents don't love their own children as much as public school teachers do-

Roger J. said...

Synova pretty well lays it out--again, pbandj do you have a response at all? sounds to me like you could have used some home schooling-but thats just my take

bagoh20 said...

"It’s not so much the content of the speech that is striking..."

That's the quintessential Liberal way of evaluating speeches, and so we get Obama.

Hagar said...

I understand that someone has calculated that the difference in average age between the Democratic and Republican leaderships in Congress now is a bit over 25 years.

The Democrats have had quite a run over the last 80 years, but now they are running out of steam and ideas.

bagoh20 said...

Hey Sully,

We got a fresh womb on the radar. Dispatch an intel team, stat!

chickelit said...

The Democrats have had quite a run over the last 80 years, but now they are running out of steam and ideas.

Roe effect also setting in?

pbAndj said...

"My point was this: how do you KNOW she was regurgitating her beliefs? you are making assumptions--whose beliefs are you regurgitating?"

As a matter of fact, I'm sure that I have been influenced by the religious schools I attended. Likewise I'm sure that this girl has been influenced by her teachers/parents. The point of home schooling is to isolate kids from influences outside of the home. So, obviously home schooling parents are choosing what their kids can and cannot know about. How is that controversial? How is it disputable?

BTW, didn't it seem odd that this girl thinks the TPers are the equivalent of the Founders? Talk about short changing the Founders.



Browndog,

That was an epic FAIL.

Maybe I should have been home schooled.

AprilApple said...

The tea-party sends the progs into fits of rage.

oh If only we could tax ourselves rich.

The progressive movement is made up of tired communists who distrust the individual and see big nanny state government and the answer. Raise taxes! When a boring leftwinger rants against corporations - exchange the word "corporation" for "individual” and you get the gist.

William - THAT.
Dust Bunny - THIS!

Roger J. said...

well pjandb--of course we are influenced by our schooling when we are young--now here is the question for you sir--
do you want your children to be influenced by teachers whose beliefs you may not know? or would you want them schooled by principles that you subscribe to?

I happen to think that for most of our century public schooling has been a good thing--values can be taught at home irrespective of facts that are taught in public school--but sadly as the caliber of teaching in public institutions has declined, and the role of teachers has imho has changed, I would defer to my role as parent in teaching my children.

and I can assure you, that, again imo, the facts taught in public school curricula are simply bogus and reflect the results of socially conscious nitwits who are pushing their own agenda.

as always, your mileage may vary

Matt said...

Ah yes, a 14-year-old who lives with her parents who pay all the bills.

I am much more skeptical of a teen-ager talking about 'self government' and right wing 'anti-socialist' ideals than I ever would be with an adult.

AprilApple said...

" The Clinton family made 100 million in just eight years. The people who don't mind higher taxes are the people who sell the loopholes to higher taxes. OK, there are some Republicans among their midst, but it's a Democrat franchise."

Control, power and corrutpion.
The CPC franchise. It's a shakedown.

Roger J. said...

And I missed this point you suggested: homeschooling is to isolate--how do you know this? it is entirely possible that parents who want the best for your children would want them exposed to some of the butt ugly curricula that exist in the public system. It is the parents choice.

You do tend to make some very overweening assumptions in your arguments.

Matt said...

Roger J.

One of the valuable things about going to a school is that is lets children experience other beliefs other than their own or their parents. And in most schools the political beliefs are not all in lockstep. Their are multiple views of many subjects. And many classes that are not political.

However a home schooling system in 100% propaganda that might rarely if ever deviate from the beliefs of the parent. I am not so sure it is good to isolate children in this environment unless the public or private school in the area is terrible. In a good many small communities the public schools are actually pretty good.

Roger J. said...

Matt--agree entirely with your premise--schooling is more than curricula--it is about interacting with other kids who share different beliefs and opinions--IMO it is the role of parents to help their children sort those things out.

Thanks for your thoughtful post--you laid out the argument for public schooling very nicely--much appreciated.

Roger J. said...

Matt--sorry for the add on post--agree entirely that most schools are good. It is for the parents to evaluate the curricula of the public school system to determine the best route of education for their children--schools are not baby sitters.

again, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments

pbAndj said...

Roger,

I don't have kids.

When I do they'll be in fancy private schools. We have a world class school in one of the places I live. I went to this school (for a short time), and it was extraordinary. It was like college, but better. Somehow this school had the perfect mix of incentives for me. But, the kids their were obnoxious snobs, e.g. they had a cheer that said something about how they may be losing now, but in the future the other team will be working for them.

Anyway, I think I can use my home time to un-inculcate the snobbery. That's a small challenge compared trying to undue the damage associated w/ putting kids into horrible public schools. I'd consider religious schools, but in my experience a top level nonsectarian school is better at teaching. Religion can be a home time subject.

And, Matt hit the nail on the head.

I went to religious schools until halfway through high school. But, then I forced my parents to put me in non-religious schools. That was the best thing ever. You can't fathom how isolating it is when you are a big fish in a little sea (and home schooling makes you a whale in a fish bowl). Getting into a big ocean is very challenging, and useful.

pbAndj said...

there or their

Browndog said...

Aplogies for letting PB&J distract me.

The argument that her speech is invalid because she is home schooled is a distraction-

Back to the merits of what she said...if you can-

unless, you want to take it to the inevitable conclusion-

Child abuse.

Go for it-

You know you're thinking it.

Roger J. said...

pbandj and matt--I would like to thank both of you for productive and insightful comments that bring the questions raised into sharper focus--I do appreciate the quality of your arguments and the grace with which you have put them forward. I do enjoy debating issues with courteous and thoughtful commenters--thanks to both of you

hombre said...

Now I see why the bottom feeders felt the urge to drown her out and the trolls rush to disparage her and her parents. She's really good!

E.g., pbAndj spewed:

If I'm an ideologue, what is a home schooled fourteen year old who can regurgitate her parents' views w/o missing a beat?

Therein lies the rub. P and his ilk, "progressive" adults, don't understand the negative consequences of insupportable government debt.

How then can he/they appreciate that it is child's play for people, including children, who are not steeped in lefty ideology to do so?

Cain/Willoughby, 2012.

Roger J. said...

pbandj and matt--I would like to thank both of you for productive and insightful comments that bring the questions raised into sharper focus--I do appreciate the quality of your arguments and the grace with which you have put them forward. I do enjoy debating issues with courteous and thoughtful commenters--thanks to both of you

Matt said...

Roger J.
I went to a public school in a small town that was pretty much equal parts liberal and conservative. But I have to say when I was in school the whole political / religious divide was [at least to me] almost nonexistent. It didn't matter to me either way. Only as an adult - and on websites do these political concerns bring out the worst in us - and me.

To this day I get along with every conservative friend I have. Because in real life even though many different political views exist there doesn't have to be a personal animosity because of those beliefs. But it gets tough to hold ones tongue sometimes on these blogs. I often don't. Thanks for the comments.

Methadras said...

I just want to say that I fucking hate you blogger for killing what I type with your stupid errors and not being able to go back to them. Dammit.

ken in sc said...

It is interesting to learn that this girl was home-schooled. My first experience with a home-schooled student was as a public school teacher in a state-wide competition in industrial technology. The home-schooled girl beat my students flat down, on drilling, turning, and milling. Not only that, she could sit down with an adult and carry on an adult conversation. Something my students could do only if prodded. Public Education should be a second choice for anyone who can afford anything else.

Revenant said...

One of the valuable things about going to a school is that is lets children experience other beliefs other than their own or their parents.

Well, unless the parents are left-wing. :)

vbspurs said...

Slight re-write:

"The Founding Fathers are often seen as being made up entirely of cranky middle-aged people who don’t like paying taxes."

I don't see the problem with either version.

Cheers,
Victoria

Henry said...

@Victoria. Perfect.

vbspurs said...

It's 9:13 PM EST, and post offices in the eastern seaboard have closed for the day.

WHY IS JOHN GALT SARCASTIC?

Revenant said...

47% do not make enough money to pay income taxes.

Because as we all know, the tax rates are naturally occurring phenomena. They certainly aren't determined by Congress.

So if people aren't taxed, it isn't because Congress deliberately chose not to tax them -- it is just because they "don't make enough money".

bagoh20 said...

There may be a variety of reasons, but everyone knows in their heart that, in general, home-schooled kids are far superior in knowledge and thinking ability as compared to public schooled ones. Of course, there are exceptions, but I doubt if anyone would take a bet using their own money on which would test superior if the sample was random from both types of schooling. I live right next a public high school graduating 50% of the entrants.

Public school is a failure. People are looking for anything else. I know a lot of parents who are actually poor, yet insist on spending a huge amount of their disposable income for private schooling their kids. They know the schools, they know the students, and the teachers. they don't want their kids there, even if it cost a relative fortune. They know the product, and even though it's free, they would rather pay dearly for another. That tells me a lot.

vbspurs said...

Thanks, Henry!

I further say to progressives: you think Russian and French peasants liked paying taxes, which directly led to their Revolutions?

Be careful what you sow. Productive people get tired of being squeezed dry, too.

mariner said...

Cranky. Check
Middle-aged. Check
Doesn't like paying taxes. Check.

I guess I'm a Tea Party type.

vbspurs said...

Bagoh20 wrote:

Public school is a failure. People are looking for anything else. I know a lot of parents who are actually poor, yet insist on spending a huge amount of their disposable income for private schooling their kids. They know the schools, they know the students, and the teachers. they don't want their kids there, even if it cost a relative fortune. They know the product, and even though it's free, they would rather pay dearly for another.

This is the whole theme of "Waiting for Superman" (one of the most cynical omissions in Academy Awards history).

I once heard an NPR programme hosted by Sherry Lansing, ex-CEO of Paramount. It consisted of her defending public schools to the point where she actually harrassed callers, who were considering sending their kids to private schools.

It was the most shocking one hour of pure philosophical bulliness I'd ever heard on NPR, and that's saying something.

windbag said...

The point of home schooling is to isolate kids from influences outside of the home.

Be sure to put mind reader on your resume.

We homeschooled our kids until two years ago. We did so because we believe that education is lighting a fire, not filling a bucket (William Butler Yeats quote). We taught them HOW to think, not WHAT to think, unlike public education and all its politically correct trash.

My son is enrolled in an early college program now and has been taking college courses since he was 14. My daughter is in a private school and will be joining her brother next year at the early college. They both are top in their classes. They can hold their own in an adult conversation, unlike most of the public school kids whom I know.

Now, I know people who homeschool their kids because they fear the outside influences of the world. They are doing their kids a terrible disservice. But the vast majority of homeschoolers I know are simply trying to give their kids the best education they can.

You are simply ignorant. You might try getting out and exposing yourself to people who are different from yourself. I hear that's another good way to become educated.

Browndog said...

@bagoh20

Well said.

"Public schools are a failure" is enough said.

Yet some say (insinuate)that because she is not public schooled, she is a failure-

My point is home-schooling parents see their "student" as someone who's success in life is the most important thing in their life.

A public school teacher (tends to) sees that student as tax dollars and job security.

vbspurs said...

Chickelit wrote:

Roe effect also setting in?

The maddening part is, if this is true, that they are committing class suicide.

And.They.Don't.See.It.

--> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/14/atlanta-anti-abortion-bil_n_461972.html

vbspurs said...

BTW, Conserve Liberty's comment at 5:45 is outstanding, especially "I do not fear for who will lead this country in 25 years - I know who they are."

This is how I feel whenever I meet active military personnel (and that goes double for Marines). A more steely-eyed, respectable folk you'll never meet.

David said...

I just finished filing my taxes and I am not middle aged and cranky.

I am old and cranky.

I started paying federal income taxes in 1962 at age 19 and have done so every year since.

Crank, crank, crank. Phooey!

Van Halen said...

The TEA Party cost the Democrats 800+ seats last fall (with the help of Sarah Palin).
That is why the Democrats have gone from ignoring it to mocking it to raging against it to sporadic violence against its members.

Thank you, TEA Partiers!
Thank you, Sarah Palin!
Thank you, other women of the Conservative movement who did so much heavy lifting last election!

Carol_Herman said...

Well, maybe, there are just more old people?

How can everybody be young, when families got smaller and smaller?

Besides, it's nice to see the old timers going out.

What do you think it was like in the time of Lincoln?

TV, if it changed the world, got "outted" from the Living Room. (Heck, people would have parked their new cars in the living room, just to show off, if they could. Instead of it being just an accident when the wife couldn't find the brake peddle. When you shouted "clutch" ... back then ... you had to hope the woman driver didn't just reach for her purse.)

master cylinder said...

yes browndog, teachers are evil and care nothing for our children....they just want ALL that money.

chuck said...

And.They.Don't.See.It.

I used to mention that to folks back in the early seventies but don't recall making any sort of impression. There is more to Darwin than tooth and claw, culture too plays its part.

Revenant said...

The TEA Party cost the Democrats 800+ seats last fall (with the help of Sarah Palin).

How did Palin help, exactly?

Browndog said...

Standard liberal "debate" tactic master cylinder-

Take one aspect of a reasoned argument to the extreme-

Use it to negate the entire concept-

Get back to me when you can have an intelligent debate-

pbAndj said...

Wind,

I know half a dozen folks who home school. Admittedly a small sample.

But, I've already stated that, from my pov, public schools are horrible, particularly when they're compared to a top-level private school.

BTW, in addition to talking to the home schoolers I know, your comment is a powerful justification for my statement that home schooling is meant to isolate kids from outside influences.

And, yes I do know that home schoolers do play group sports, go to church functions, and so on. I.e., it's not like the kids are bound and gagged in the basement. But, these kids are still big fish in a small pond, when compared to being in a big public (or private) school. There are some positive aspects associated w/ being a fish (of whatever size) in a big pond/sea that home schoolers will miss, as your comment implies.

Browndog said...

vbspurs said...

Indeed.

I'm glad someone ackowledged that comment.

I tell those I talk to who are genuinely worried the same thing.

I remember when we were doomed as a country because Generation X was lazy and self-absorbed, and we'd not be able to man the military-

Turns out you couldn't ask for a finer fighting force.

God Bless them.

Pogo said...

The rage against Tricia Willoughby arises because she represents the failure of the left to continue to capture the hearts and minds of the young.

The leftist control of public education was heavily pursued by Obama's partner in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Bill Ayers, creating...(WSJ)

"individual schools built around specific political themes push students to "confront issues of inequity, war, and violence." He believes teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system. (His teacher-training programs were also CAC funded.) The point, says Mr. Ayers in his "Teaching Toward Freedom," is to "teach against oppression," against America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation.

Programs for math and science achievement were rejected in favor of those "focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism.

Tricia shames them, exposing their loss of a mind from leftist obedience.

JAL said...

From the article: Cynics will point out that—gasp!—she is homeschooled, as if that ought to discredit her.

Heh. Guess I nailed that one a couple threads ago.

(patapatapata....)

And please note: None of my kids were homeschooled. (Although if I had them now, they probably would be.)

Gladys said...

Wel this is the image of the tea party at a conservative media:
http://www.abc.es/20110419/internacional/abci-obama-chimpance-201104190205.html

windbag said...

I know half a dozen folks who home school. Admittedly a small sample.

And they all are trying to hide their kids from outside influences?

But, I've already stated that, from my pov, public schools are horrible, particularly when they're compared to a top-level private school.

It's not just top-level private schools. The data is crystal clear: public schools, on average, lag behind private schools and homeschooling.

BTW, in addition to talking to the home schoolers I know, your comment is a powerful justification for my statement that home schooling is meant to isolate kids from outside influences.

Not sure what gives you the impression that I've isolated my kids from outside influences. Or are you reading minds through the Internets again?

There are some positive aspects associated w/ being a fish (of whatever size) in a big pond/sea that home schoolers will miss, as your comment implies.

And there are positive aspects to homeschooling that others will miss. There isn't a one-size-fits-all formula for education (another logistically necessary fault of public schools). We have friends who used a combination of public, private, and homeschooling for their kids. Their eldest aced the SAT--1600 (old scoring system).

I never recommend anyone homeschool. It is a grueling endeavor, if done properly. If someone asks advice on how to do it, I will gladly offer what I've learned, but I don't presume to think that what worked for us will work for any/everyone else.

Spero said...

The idea that homeschoolers are isolated seems just silly to me. With the internet available? Haha. My nineteen year old son was homeschooled from the age of 7, and is now a freshman at the University of Chicago, studying economics. He had a number of friends in the public school, and the main difference that I noted between them was that his public school friends - very bright boys - could not think logically about certain topics because they had been so thoroughly brainwashed. Not helped, of course, by the fact that we live in a very liberal community. He did his best to educate them...

To me it looked a lot more like the public school students were the ones who were exposed to only one PC way of thinking.

I also object to the claim that being in a large school has some inherent benefit. I personally belief that the social situation in large institutional government schools is horribly damaging to a pretty large percentage of the students. Sure, there are some who manage to do OK. But there are many children who really suffer. The idea that our current form of government schools is natural and inevitable is a delusion that you lose after experiencing a way of growing up that is much more natural and can be customized to the individual in ways that are IMPOSSIBLE in so-called "public" schools.

chickelit said...

Pogo wrote

Programs for math and science achievement were rejected in favor of those "focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism."

If this is true, then they are committing economic suicide.

And.They.Don't.See.It.

bagoh20 said...

It seems inconsistent that the same people who argue for the advantages of being in a large public school also argue that class size is all important and never small enough.

master cylinder said...

you argue with dogs....you get?

bagoh20 said...

Like most human endeavor, small is beautiful. Most things lose a lot and often morph into the opposite of what made them successful when the reach a certain size. This is true of most organization of business, government, charity, and I also think education. These organizations lose the human factor and become obsessed with maintaining the organization and it's policies above all else.

pbAndj said...

Spero,

Being on the internet is no substitute for living w/ real people.

You and Wind are both saying that home schooling is meant to isolate kids from outside influences (you call these child destroying influences 'political correctness'). Yippee, you can teach your kids to be as politically incorrect as you want at home!!

But, why do you bristle when I mention that home schoolers isolate their kids from outside influences, after you've state precisely this point? Why so defensive?

BTW, I think that all of this anti-political-correctness is silly. I wish that was PCness the biggest problem w/ our education system.



bag,

Sowing wild oats can be more widespread (w/in the cream layer) in a bigger school. And that's not the only time that bigger is better.

Just sayin.

Browndog said...

I get.

Hockey time-

Have a good one.

reader_iam said...

Jeez, pbAndj, I wish you'd mentioned that you know half-a-dozen homeschoolers, an "admittedly small sample" as you yourself said, before I bothered reading the rest of your comments and was well into composing a thoughtful and detailed response to you (and Matt, as well).

I wouldn't have bothered to make a point of reading all of them, much less with a mind to responding, much less thoughtfully.

Ridiculous, to make sweeping statements based on that sample; ridiculous, and intellectually dishonest and untenable as well. And I say that as graduate of public schools and a public state university, even!

LMAO at you.

Please tell me that's not a value you intend to pass on to your own kids, when that day comes, whether they're educated in expensive private schools or not?

Alex said...

matt -

I am much more skeptical of a teen-ager talking about 'self government' and right wing 'anti-socialist' ideals than I ever would be with an adult.

Red herring. What about the rest of the ADULTS at the rally who were saying the same things?

bagoh20 said...

"Sowing wild oats can be more widespread (w/in the cream layer) in a bigger school."

That's not all that gets spread.

In a small school, you know where your partner has been.

BTW, my high school graduating class was over 1100 students. The administration and staff had no idea what we were up to and couldn't control it if they did. It was complete anarchy much of the time. The only controlling factor was the students' own sense of right and wrong which was widely tested in the mid 70's. But, it was a small town with small town values, thank God.

Phil 3:14 said...

P.S. The tea party is only "overwhelmingly white" if you consider America to be "overwhelmingly white."

Lyssa;
You finally have seen the light!

Phil 3:14 said...

Everybody pays taxes. 47% do not make enough money to pay income taxes.

The second time in two blog threads. I want to know where this came from. How does this even make sense?

PS If you feel that way then you should work hard to eliminate cigarette taxes (a buck 70 per pack.)


I guess they earn enough to pay those taxes

Synova said...

I really hate blogger lately.

JAL said...

This rejection of homeschooling is so 20th century.

I have to laugh about big fish small pond ...

One of my friends is a 17 year old homeschooled kid who has had an interesting problem in that she wants to do a double major in college -- Spanish and something else, but has really had to make sure she can do it as she has so many college level Spanish credits from attending two of the local colleges (private and state university) that she had to find one that had enough courses she hadn't taken to make sure she would get enough hours for a Spanish major.

This isolated child has spent a month as the only American kid -- or person -- volunteering at an orphange in Honduras (with Hondurans she already had lived with) when she was 15. We recently spent a weekend together with another friend at an event. No "kid" phenomenon -- it was friends.

Kids in another family I know have attended William Forstchen's history classes at Montreat College (One Second After NY times bestseller, among other things). The 16 year old recently finished Robert E Lee's biography (his choice). Geeze, he should be reading something lighter and silly and *fun* like -- um --- um ---

These kids move pretty gracefully across the real world.

Really. Many homeschooled kids are so much more solid than their mixed up doomed to be perpetually adolescent peers.

How come when the village doing the raising doesn't meet the progs litmus test it must be there's a big screwup somewhere somehow?

Methadras said...

Synova said...

I really hate blogger lately.


It got you too huh?

windbag said...

You and Wind are both saying that home schooling is meant to isolate kids from outside influences...

That is not what I said. You are dishonest along with your ignorance.

Ut said...

"Govt employees still pay taxes, even if their salary is provided by the govt."

Net, dude. Can't you read?

Government employee leaches do NOT pay taxes. On net, they RECEIVE the tax dollars that WE pay.

The ASFCME takes from us tax dollars at gunpoint. We are FORCED to give them to them under threat of jail.

So they can retire at 50 with six-figure pensions.

It's out and out theft and the only way it will ever change is if Americans can find the courage to stop volunteering.

Ut said...

"How did Palin help, exactly?"

By being super fucking fine and having some really great tits.

Democrats are the party of jew-hater Helen Thomas.

Hatred makes you ugly.

Paul Zrimsek said...

For someone who at the start of the thread didn't even know whether or not Tricia Willoughby is home-schooled, PB&J sure ended up claiming some pretty deep knowledge about the contents of her curriculum by the end of it.

carrie said...

There are many more teenagers like her, but most of them hide it. My son goes to a high school in Dane County. My son is a conservative and there are actually several conservative students at his school, but the teachers sure do not encourage the discussion of conservativism at his school. One of his friends wore a "Don't Tread on Me" t-shirt to school and a teacher came up to him and told him he was closed minded! Mainly, the conservative kids are afraid that teachers will hold it against them (i.e., it will affect their grades) if they are open about being a conservative or a tea party supporter, so they keep their mouths shut.

Sofa King said...

And in most schools the political beliefs are not all in lockstep.

That's a laugh. Schools are just about the most politically monolithic public institution in our society.